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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: freqmax on December 21, 2011, 08:28:41 PM

Title: CDTV mouse protocoll?
Post by: freqmax on December 21, 2011, 08:28:41 PM
What protocol does the CDTV mouse really use?, it seems to be a real oddball..

This is what I could find out:

Mouse (4 pin mini-DIN (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini-DIN_connector#4-pin)):

cdtv.org.uk: Commodore CDTV Expansion Ports Explained (http://web.archive.org/web/20081120095827/http://www.cdtv.org.uk/1295.html) from link at abime.net (http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=35998)
Pin Signal
 1 GND
 2 GND
 3 PRDT (Mouse Data?)
 4 +5V
Title: Re: CDTV mouse protocoll?
Post by: Cignale on December 21, 2011, 08:42:31 PM
Maybe this link could be helpful   ? :

http://web.archive.org/web/19990209110532/nyquist.ee.ualberta.ca/~ewaniu/cdtv/cdtv-joystick.html


ADDENDUM: erm...no, it can't help..... :-(
Title: Re: CDTV mouse protocoll?
Post by: Zac67 on December 21, 2011, 09:36:29 PM
That's a tough one....

The PRDT line runs into the 6500/1 MC - seems to be used with a serial protocol. Unless anyone has access to developer infos it'd be a lot of work to find out how it's working. The SM doesn't detail anything around here. It's probably much easier to circumvent the 6500/1 and tap into the lines in known territories, as explained in the link Cignale came up with.
Title: Re: CDTV mouse protocoll?
Post by: freqmax on December 21, 2011, 10:34:35 PM
One use logic analyzer and some brains, it usually gives the answer.

But one need equipment to rig it. And then to export the data. Any takers? ;)
Title: Re: CDTV mouse protocoll?
Post by: Minuous on December 22, 2011, 01:02:54 AM
That's bizarre, I always assumed the CDTV just had a standard mouse port like any other Amiga. More Commodore idiocy I guess.

The Amiga Developer CD has a lot of CDTV developer info; the answers you seek might possibly be there.
Title: Re: CDTV mouse protocoll?
Post by: freqmax on December 22, 2011, 01:48:12 AM
Seems even the "The Amiga Developer CD" assumes the mouse is a 9-pin device 8 Interface Hardware / Controller Port Interface (http://amigadev.elowar.com/read/ADCD_2.1/Hardware_Manual_guide/node017D.html) ;)

CDTV is an oddball ;)
Title: Re: CDTV mouse protocoll?
Post by: omnicron10 on December 22, 2011, 02:13:28 AM
I would like to know the IR protocol for the mouse.  It might be easier to make a PS2 to IR adapter.  The CDTV had a CD1252 wireless IR mouse.  I have a dead one (battery leakage) and they seem impossible to find.  I like wireless!
Title: Re: CDTV mouse protocoll?
Post by: Amiwest on December 22, 2011, 03:09:51 AM
//amiga-manuals.xiik.net/hardware lists a manual for the CDTV 1253 mouse that might help.
http://www.l8r.net/technical/cdtv-technical.html has good info for the cdtv.
Title: Re: CDTV mouse protocoll?
Post by: freqmax on December 22, 2011, 03:33:22 AM
http://amiga-manuals.xiik.net/hardware/

The "CDTV - CD-1253 - Mouse - Manual-DE.rar (http://amiga-manuals.xiik.net/hardware/CDTV%20-%20CD-1253%20-%20Mouse%20-%20Manual-DE.rar)" only tells you where to plug in the mouse in essence..
Title: Re: CDTV mouse protocoll?
Post by: psxphill on December 22, 2011, 08:50:25 AM
Quote from: omnicron10;672322
I would like to know the IR protocol for the mouse. It might be easier to make a PS2 to IR adapter. The CDTV had a CD1252 wireless IR mouse. I have a dead one (battery leakage) and they seem impossible to find. I like wireless!

It wouldn't suprise me if the mouse port and the IR protocol were the same.
Title: Re: CDTV mouse protocoll?
Post by: strim on December 22, 2011, 10:23:32 AM
Quote from: psxphill;672348
It wouldn't suprise me if the mouse port and the IR protocol were the same.


AFAIK they are the same. I suspect that Individual Computers reverse engineered the protocol for their Chameleon cart (which supports CDTV's IR protocol).
Title: Re: CDTV mouse protocoll?
Post by: freqmax on December 22, 2011, 01:55:21 PM
Sounds plausible. Guess only soldering & programming remains then ;)
Title: Re: CDTV mouse protocoll?
Post by: omnicron10 on December 22, 2011, 05:29:14 PM
Quote from: strim;672356
AFAIK they are the same. I suspect that Individual Computers reverse engineered the protocol for their Chameleon cart (which supports CDTV's IR protocol).


But the Chameleon does not support the CDTV wireless mouse, only the CDTV wireless pad.  Not having a working wireless mouse to read the IR protocol has made it hard for me to figure out how to make an PS2 mouse IR adapter like I wanted.
Title: Re: CDTV mouse protocoll?
Post by: freqmax on December 22, 2011, 10:44:40 PM
Nothing like "move mouse" keys on the remote control ?
Otherwise.. send random bits until you get some response.
Title: Re: CDTV mouse protocoll?
Post by: Cignale on December 23, 2011, 08:56:43 AM
In this chamaleon forum thread there are the "codes" explained; maybe
this can help ?


http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/chameleon_64/messages/627?threaded=1&m=e&var=1&tidx=1
Title: Re: CDTV mouse protocoll?
Post by: omnicron10 on December 23, 2011, 09:56:59 AM
That might do it. I will have to see how it works. I was thinking the mouse was different than the controller but when the controller has mouse mode activated it might act as a mouse.   I am thinking of using a Propeller CPU and SPIN to write a driver for PS2 to 40 KHZ CDTV mouse and joystick IR brick for use with a CDTV and Chameleon.  I hope to get it going this coming year...
Title: Re: CDTV mouse protocoll?
Post by: freqmax on December 23, 2011, 03:18:54 PM
This is how the remote looks like:

Vesalia.de - CDTV Remote Control (http://www.vesalia.de/e_cdtvremote.htm)
(http://www.vesalia.de/pic/cdtvremote.jpg)

And this seems to be the protocol then ;)

YahooGroups: chameleon_64 ยท Turbo Chameleon 64: CDTV Infrared Remote Codes (http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/chameleon_64/messages/627?threaded=1&m=e&var=1&tidx=1)
"This is what I think, as the serial codes from IR, Keyboard and Mouse are all handled by the same MCU in the CDTV. My guess is the codes are all the same :)"

"Ofcourse I know the codes as I made the receiver code on the Chameleon. The carrier is indeed 40 Khz and the remote uses something that looks like morse-code. The codes are 12 bits long but are send twice with the second copy all bits are flipped. This is verification that the code is correctly received.

Code starts with 9 ms transmission (at 40Khz) then a pauze of 4.5. Followed by pulse (400 us) + either short or long pause, then another pulse + either short or long pause etc 24 times. Then one pulse extra at the end.

Pulses are about 400 us long (0.4 ms). Short pauses are 0.4 ms as well. Long pauses are 1.200 ms (1200 us).

When key is held it sends repeat codes every 60 milliseconds. 9 ms pulse followed by 2.1 ms pauze and then the 0.4 ms end pulse.

The codes are as follows (remember to invert long and short and send then again before sending the end bit of 0.4 ms).

1  SSSS_SSSS_SSSL

2  SSSS_SSLS_SSSL

3  SSSS_SSSL_SSSL

4  SSSS_SSSS_LSSL

5  SSSS_SSLS_LSSL

6  SSSS_SSSL_LSSL

7  SSSS_SSSS_SLSL

8  SSSS_SSLS_SLSL

9  SSSS_SSSL_SLSL

0  SSSS_SSLL_LSSL

escape  SSSS_SSLL_SSSL

enter  SSSS_SSLL_SLSL

genlock  SSSS_SSLS_SSLS

cd/tv  SSSS_SSSS_SSLS

power  SSSS_SSSL_SSLS

rew  SSSS_SSLL_SSLS

play/pause  SSSS_SSSS_LSLS

ff  SSSS_SSSL_LSLS

stop  SSSS_SSLS_LSLS

vol up  SSSS_SSSS_SLLS

vol down  SSSS_SSLL_LSLS

Mouse A  SSSS_LSSS_SSSS

Mouse B  SSSS_SLSS_SSSS

Mouse A+B  SSSS_LLSS_SSSS

Mouse Up  SSSS_SSLS_SSSS

Mouse Right  SSSS_SSSS_SLSS

Mouse Down  SSSS_SSSL_SSSS

Mouse Left  SSSS_SSSS_LSSS

Joy A  LSSS_LSSS_SSSS
"