Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: Amiga_Nut on December 21, 2011, 03:45:46 AM
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Is the proposed price point of the ones Commodore USA were planning to build the actual problem, which was effectively maybe 4x the cost of the x86 components.
Put it this way, would you buy a reasonably priced A1200 look alike computer running on an i7 or an i5/Llano based A600 look alike computer?
And if this is something some people would consider what is a reasonable price point do you think for this sort of thing
I'm not saying it's good or bad I am asking if you took away the excessive price tags for the proposed Amiga/c64x i7 machines would they then become something you would consider, even as a novelty, to get your WinUAE kicks on for example?
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If someone takes the case from a busted A600 and puts a mini PC board in it and installs UAE on it, I have no problem with that. What I object to is the idea of selling PCs in Amiga-ish cases as "Amiga," when they're nothing of the sort.
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If this is really cheapo chinawares, and AROS boots, and a side dish 'Borek' to go please. :drink:
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I'd love it if my PC came in an A1000 or A3000 replica case, just for $%%'s and giggles. Would be much more interesting to look at than what I have to look at now. No, I wouldn't expect it be an Amiga or act like an Amiga. And no I wouldn't pay very much for this.
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For retro and sentimental value, there would be a lot of interested parties I suspect. At 4x the price of any comparable machine just via the fact it's a "custom case", not up my alley in the least but such offerings have appealed to some people I suppose.
I always hated the Amiga wedge boxes, but if I had the option to purchase an A4000 style or other Amiga retro case that took commodity form PC motherboards, I would gladly if it was from a reputable company. If and only if the price on said cases is comparable to the otherwise already available "generic" PC cases by guys like Thermaltake and etc. AIO/wedge PC's have always turned my stomach, even going back to the A500, heh - again, just preference. I do understand why people likethem from a space saving aspect, though - but I've been using a KVM for 10 years, so space isn't much of a concern.
I have never been a fan of buying prebuilt pc's, regardless of what case they come in, mainly due to the fact putting together a custom PC via components is dead simple even for a first timer these days. Same reason I had no interest in the X1000 since you cannot just buy the motherboard/OS package sans case, but building my own rigs is mainly preference and it's infinitely cheaper than buying prebuilt more enthusiast grade pc's. If you can operate a TV remote, you can assemble a PC from parts.
Last prebuilt desktop PC I bought was in the late 90's, tbh - and I'd never buy one again for personal use, so the prebuilt fully built system ideal doesn't appeal to me.
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Off the shelf hardware is the only way forward if that means X86 so be it. As for the retro case that's up to the purchaser, personally MEH.
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Without even reading the thread fully, let me say:
As LONG as I have a single real live working Amiga, THAT'S what I use...
Look, I applaud the skills of hardware hackers, etc... but... the miggy means too much to me, to be anything BUT a real miggy....
(see Sig. for details! :) )
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Well, im still having great fun with my x86 PicoITX in a old A600 case,
It's now running a fast linux distro (CrunchBang Linux), and boots with E-UAE With Green Alien Edition, to give it a 'Real Retro Like Look' , it's also Running AmiKit, AmigaSYS 4, ScummVM, DosBox, Zsnes, Mupen64, some ZX Spectrum EMU, and CPCAmstrad emulation, but since the CPU is limited to 1ghz, it's quite slow for PSx emulation.
I'm also using it for feeding my ZX Spectrum, with fastloading games.
But The Real Deal is my Amigas,, nothing compares to it.
PS: i got some old pictures in my gallery about the thing.
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I think that while the Amiga 1000 had a wonderfully slim case and a keyboard garage, none of the Amiga cases was as iconic as the original C64. So I think there is not as much value in giving us "just the case".
Amiga was not about the name or the case. Any case that is friendly, compact, sturdy and elegant can be an Amiga case. Don´t make it black or siver, please!
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I already use Emulation (on a Notebook with Windows 7) so I do not need a new "emulated" system. There is nothing innovative in the concepts that justify to buy it. And they are (up to now) not investing in the community and even spoke bad in public. We have to wait and see if their new offer is serious, perhaps they have changed their minds because their concept with the new "C64" failed.
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I already use Emulation (on a Notebook with Windows 7) so I do not need a new "emulated" system. There is nothing innovative in the concepts that justify to buy it.
QFT
I have an x86 laptop which I use to do some coding / tinkering when I'm away from home. It's running UAE and OS3.9, and it would be very easy to make it "boot" directly into UAE. That's old hat at this stage though, and there are pleny of options there already. While a new machine sold with that configuration might be nice, it's hardly new or exciting, or anything more than vaguely interesting.
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QFT
I have an x86 laptop which I use to do some coding / tinkering when I'm away from home. It's running UAE and OS3.9, and it would be very easy to make it "boot" directly into UAE. That's old hat at this stage though, and there are pleny of options there already. While a new machine sold with that configuration might be nice, it's hardly new or exciting, or anything more than vaguely interesting.
"old hat" is old hat you know. :)
Why would you pay all that money for something you can basically set up for free. Most people throw out x86 PCs that will run Linux/XP and Win UAE fine.
Ive got a pentium 4 2.2 Ghz with a Nvidia 5500 sitting idle on the floor beside me. Hmmmmm :)
As for the case. Well if you wanna pay the $ then enjoy...
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"old hat" is old hat you know. :)
Why would you pay all that money for something you can basically set up for free. Most people throw out x86 PCs that will run Linux/XP and Win UAE fine.
Umm, I think you slightly missed my point there. I'm basically saying the same as you, that it's all been done before, years ago, and isn't anything to get even remotely excited about.
Ive got a pentium 4 2.2 Ghz with a Nvidia 5500 sitting idle on the floor beside me. Hmmmmm :)
As for the case. Well if you wanna pay the $ then enjoy...
Indeed. The laptop I use for UAE on the move is an early Core2 Duo which performed miserably under Vista. I was given it *for free* when the owner bought a Macbook to replace it. It runs UAE just fine - I couldn't bring myself to pay good money for a machine like that when, as you say, you can do it all for free.
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To me, the wedge just seems like an outdated form factor.... So Borek, it is. If CUSA or whoever can sell a few units based on a retro look, good luck, and more power to 'em.
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If someone takes the case from a busted A600 and puts a mini PC board in it and installs UAE on it, I have no problem with that. What I object to is the idea of selling PCs in Amiga-ish cases as "Amiga," when they're nothing of the sort.
+1 for treating PC's in Amiga cases as false advertisement.
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+1 for treating PC's in Amiga cases as false advertisement.
Same can be said for PPC mobo in a Amiga Case.
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To each his own, but half the fun of that type of retro thing is doing it yourself. If I was to ever use a uae based "amiga" Id either use a shell from a dead amiga or make the casing myself.
Although I really dont think I would anyway. My amithlon box is much better suited to a tower and my a1200 (in original casing) covers the rest.
The one exception here is that it still appeals to me to use a sff pc inside a cd32 (or cdtv) case to make a more powerful version of the console.
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I'm also using it for feeding my ZX Spectrum, with fastloading games.
You may be interested in the ZX Spectrum laptop then :)
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Same can be said for PPC mobo in a Amiga Case.
I am in agreement for once in my life *shock*. For me personally PPC stuff like x1000 and and SAM460 running UAE for Amiga OS4.2 are no more Amiga than a DELL PC running Windows and WinUAE for me either. Other people have their reasons for needing 1ghz OS4 compatible machines sure but I don't see it as Amiga if it can't load my original Cinemaware 3.5 floppy disks directly. For me that is the definition of an Amiga.
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Interesting responses to poll and in thread comments. It's not that I want C-USA to do this at all and this is not what I would consider related to the Amiga (ie Commodore machines built from 1985-1994) but merely a custom PC for retro fans out there who can't do this for themselves. Essentially what you would be paying for would be the service of doing the construction/design/engineering work. I am sure many of us here could do this ourselves tomorrow if we really wanted to, but there are people out there who wouldn't know where to start with such a project.
Let me just be clear that what I was trying to gage is if there are any people in the world who would buy a reasonably priced (ie no more than your semi budget average PC in PC World) computer that looks like an Amiga to get a bit more of the enjoyment of the nostalgia trip of playing all those old games on UAE/WinUAE.
Approx 200-300 people obviously bought a C64x to do just that, and that's without any kind of interface to use real 9 pin classic joysticks :)
If people wanted it, and at a very reasonable price, this can happen. It's like anything in the business world, if there is a demand......
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Approx 200-300 people obviously bought a C64x to do just that, and that's without any kind of interface to use real 9 pin classic joysticks :)
Oh, were there finally some figures released?
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I'd rather stick a beagleboard or similar in an old Amiga case and hang around for the ARM native AROS port to be honest. If a cutting edge ARM machine running AmigaOS would magically appear I'd snap it up, but people throw away x86 machines that are perfectly capable of running an Amiga emulator so I'm hardly going to fork out for one because it has a nice case.
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I'd rather stick a beagleboard or similar in an old Amiga case and hang around for the ARM native AROS port to be honest. If a cutting edge ARM machine running AmigaOS would magically appear I'd snap it up, but people throw away x86 machines that are perfectly capable of running an Amiga emulator so I'm hardly going to fork out for one because it has a nice case.
So a lower power more expensive ARM board compared to AMD £99 MiniITX/CPU setup to run a less stable/more complicated version of UAE emulation on via a non existent release of AROS for playing old Amiga games via ADFs? nice :)
(If it can't physically load actual Amiga floppy disks and doesn't have a Paula chip on the motherboard it isn't actually an Amiga)
I would like to direct you all to the following site to post your feelings on the subject of a new Amiga :)
http://www.the-amiga.blogspot.com
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we're kind of philosiphising (however you spell that) about what makes an amiga an amiga. is it not what we do with it that counts? or is it all about the environment in which we do what we do?
for me i'd like to slap in a floppy disk of lotus2, and run a link up game.
and if a catweasel card in an x86 pc lets me do that...?
apparently, these OS4.x machines allow you to run your old 680x0 software at speeds unheard of in the "good ol' days". would you not like to run your cinema3D stuff at the kind of speeds undreamed of years ago?
i dunno. i'm all for progress, so long as i don't loose the amiga "feeling" along the way.
what that is, is different for everyone.
i've also thought about running a mini PC, and somehow butcher a PCI slot to hook up to a miggies cpu slot and run x86 (with a 68k emu) as an accelerator...
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Same can be said for PPC mobo in a Amiga Case.
Wrong!
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Wrong!
Actually Dammy is bang on! Would you care to explain your conclusion?
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My Amiga case with a PPC board is NOT false advertising.
It's an Amiga in an Amiga case (what makes an Amiga case is highly debatable anyway) running a real, proper Amiga Operating system.
Not some wannabe Linux based OS.
A LADA with a BMW body is still a LADA.
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My Amiga case with a PPC board is NOT false advertising.
It's an Amiga in an Amiga case (what makes an Amiga case is highly debatable anyway) running a real, proper Amiga Operating system.
Not some wannabe Linux based OS.
A LADA with a BMW body is still a LADA.
I also have a PPC board in my Amiga... But that is an Amiga... What we are talking about here are new machines, is there any difference between a x86 based motherboard and a PPC one in an "Amiga" case?
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I am in agreement for once in my life *shock*. For me personally PPC stuff like x1000 and and SAM460 running UAE for Amiga OS4.2 are no more Amiga than a DELL PC running Windows and WinUAE for me either.
Some people like to run the OS natively on their computers, which is their reason for owning these machines. If WinUAE works for you then fine, and chances are you don't need to buy a CUSA machine to use it. I'm well aware that the X1000 and SAM machines aren't classic Amigas, but they're an evolution of it, hence the tag "next generation." They run the OS, and for me that's what's important. I'm not that interested in running 25 year old games that bang the hardware, so I only use UAE when I need a mobile solution, and for the odd time I do want to play games, I've a customised A1200 as part of my home entertainment system which does everything I want in that respect.
Other people have their reasons for needing 1ghz OS4 compatible machines sure but I don't see it as Amiga if it can't load my original Cinemaware 3.5 floppy disks directly. For me that is the definition of an Amiga.
I have bunches of PC software on 3.5" floppy disk I can't put on my PC either. Does that make my PC not a PC? Running Cinemaware 3.5 is a pretty esoteric definition of an Amiga, although as your opinion it's fine. But it's not something I've ever tried on any of my Amigas. Does that mean my Amigas aren't Amigas, just because they've never run Cinemaware?
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What we are talking about here are new machines, is there any difference between a x86 based motherboard and a PPC one in an "Amiga" case?
Very little, if the x86 box was running AmigaOS or, say, a mature AROS with more seamless 68k integration... Then they're pretty similar indeed.
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I took the first option. I'd never fork out for a linux box running an emulator.
As for those who don't think a PPC MOBO constitutes an Amiga - in my not-so-humble opinion, if it runs an Amiga-like operating system, be that Amiga OS (any version), MorphOS or AROS natively (but definitely not linux and an emulator), it's an Amiga.
So, if it's got an x86 MOBO, it may very well be a Miggy, but only if it's running AROS natively.
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I also have a PPC board in my Amiga... But that is an Amiga... What we are talking about here are new machines, is there any difference between a x86 based motherboard and a PPC one in an "Amiga" case?
I meant a PPC board as a SAM PPC based board.
My A1200 BlizzardPPC was still an Amiga even when I took it out of its case and put it in a tower and it was running OS3.9.
My SAMs are Amigas even if they are in a generic £30 mini-itx case.
A PPC based MAC would still be an Amiga when running an Amiga OS although the tight connections to Apple would make this slightly more difficult to acknwoledge but still...
My SAM runs OS4 not Linux, not Windows nor OSX. You can run Linux on a SAM but at this point I wouldn't call it an Amiga.
So to answer the question...yes there is a difference. The difference is based on the OS you run. If the PPC motherboard is running YDL in an Amiga replica case then it is not an Amiga in my opinion. If the x86 in an Amiga replica case is running an Amiga Operating System then it is.
You can start going deeply into what makes and what doesn't make an Amiga but it would all be based on conjecture. What makes an Amiga OS more Amiga than another one? I have used and still use all the AmigaOS spin offs and out of all of them OS4 feels AmigaOS.
As it stands my above description fits my belief.
@Daedalus
I agree with you. I am running OS4 and, to me, it feels the natural and spiritual successor of AmigaOS. When I sold my A1200 BPPC 060 60MHz and PPC 266MHz with all the bits and bobs, Mediator, Voodoo 5, Soundblaster and OS3.9 and started using OS4 on my SAM it felt as I never left. I am not sure if it's clear. It doesn't feel alien. It's just faster than my A1200. Even the crashes feel original! :)
I always thought :"My A1200 has pc stuff in it...Voodoo, PCI, Soundblaster...but it's still my Amiga", the SAM is the same but it feels and it is Amiga to me at least.
I have loads of PCs and one runs Windows and goes straight into WinUAE, you hardly notice Windows is there, but you know it isn't Amiga.
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So a lower power more expensive ARM board compared to AMD £99 MiniITX/CPU setup to run a less stable/more complicated version of UAE emulation on via a non existent release of AROS for playing old Amiga games via ADFs? nice :)
(If it can't physically load actual Amiga floppy disks and doesn't have a Paula chip on the motherboard it isn't actually an Amiga)
Agreed, the closest we're gonna get to a new Amiga is the Natami.
As for ARM, its going places. Just look at the way people went crazy over Quake3 running on the Raspberry Pi.. it's a platform that has a bit of buzz about it, the scene needs new development and new software and x86 is already swamped with OS options. As likely as I am to be crucified and flamed for eternity for saying so its a platform change that could see the community grow, its not going to be popular with a lot of people because like you say it wouldn't be REAL Amiga but at the end of the day I'm sure people don't look at a Macbook Air in a store thinking "hmmm well it's not a REAL Mac...". It would be nice to get back the feel of "wow, look at what this thing can do!" that to me was as much part of what is Amiga as the custom chips if we can't resurrect the 68k.
(Incidentally I have no trouble whatsoever with Amiga emulation on my ARM-based OpenPandora).
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Actually, this is pure semantics, I dont actually care too much, but a sam, etc. isnt any more an Amiga than an x86 machine dedicated to an amiga based os. Yes, the OS it (a sam) runs the official successor, but the hardware itself isnt an Amiga. It's an AmigaOS machine, but not "Amiga" hardware.
All from a perspective of licensing, legality, etc. Like I said, I really dont care too much, Im more of a mind that its the mindset and what a person does with thier machine that dictates if a person is an amiga user.
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(Incidentally I have no trouble whatsoever with Amiga emulation on my ARM-based OpenPandora).
Youve obviously never done much more than played simple, floppy based ocs/ecs games then :) There's *plenty* of software that runs like mud on uae on OpenPandora. Breathless, AlienBreed3d, AB3d2:TKG, quake, quake2, descent freespace, doom1/2/etc, heretic, hexen, napalm, thousands of scene demos, exodus, flyin' high, racer3d, payback, tzero, Myst, Capital Punishment, trapped, trapped2, genetic species and about a billion others that I couldnt be bothered listing :)
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Actually, this is pure semantics, I dont actually care too much, but a sam, etc. isnt any more an Amiga than an x86 machine dedicated to an amiga based os. Yes, the OS it (a sam) runs the official successor, but the hardware itself isnt an Amiga. It's an AmigaOS machine, but not "Amiga" hardware.
All from a perspective of licensing, legality, etc. Like I said, I really dont care too much, Im more of a mind that its the mindset and what a person does with thier machine that dictates if a person is an amiga user.
So what you are saying is that a SAM with OS4 is more Amiga than an x86 machine running something else?
Define Amiga hardware please and don't give me "custom chips" and all that.
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Very little, if the x86 box was running AmigaOS or, say, a mature AROS with more seamless 68k integration... Then they're pretty similar indeed.
Someone needs to poke Moggen... http://emumiga.com hasn't been updated in months!
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So what you are saying is that a SAM with OS4 is more Amiga than an x86 machine running something else?
Why would that be true? Neither are Amigas.
Define Amiga hardware please and don't give me "custom chips" and all that.
Sorry, 'custom chips' and Amiga go hand in hand. Amiga hardware: OCS/ECS/AGA+680x0. Basically the hardware from back in the day: A500/A600/A1000/A1200/A2000/A3000/A4000 (and some I missed) are Amigas.
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You may be interested in the ZX Spectrum laptop then :)
Heh! looked at the speccy laptop mod.
No! i prefer my speccy as it is, but i have some A500 and some A600 mobo's in spare..
Maybe i'm going to do some Steampunk mod with a A600 mobo, as my job allows 'creativity' , teatching youngsters the 'fine art of metalwork' ;)
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I've fallen in love with virtualisation. One Box, many operating systems. May many system has 12 cores running at 3 GHz, 64 GB of RAM and 2 TB of hard disk. UAE doesn't using even visibly raise the core usage. Heck I don't think UAE inside a virtual Windows box inside a virtual linux box would raise the core usage much. I'm not pulled six ways to sunday to try to support ram, video and the like on multiple boxes. I can split my three screens into three different OSs or allow (some of the OSs) to control all screens.
Plus if I'm doing something in another machine and UAE gurus I can keep doing what I am doing in that machine and just restart UAE.
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So what you are saying is that a SAM with OS4 is more Amiga than an x86 machine running something else?
Define Amiga hardware please and don't give me "custom chips" and all that.
My last sentence kinda covers it I thought (ie., from a stance of legality, license, etc.) , but basically what Im saying is a Sam is Amiga OS4 hardware, but not an Amiga. It's all semantics though as I said, I really couldnt care less.
Just the other side of the coin from the often heard, "its not amiga if its not the official continuiation of the sources" arguement. If it works one way (software), then it works the other too (hardware).
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if i where a rich venture capitalist..
1) i would buy Commodore and CBM assosiated brands and patents, Amiga inc, Hyperion, and those dudes making the A1x1000? and anyone else involved, i would then reFORM Commodore Business Machines as it was, i would then go to West chester and kick out QVC and take back Commodore HQ..
2) acquire key personel involved in development of the original amiga chipset and set down a roadmap to developing a new amiga product line. .
3) A new Amiga would have a full chipset that is fully backwards compatible with older hardware, based upon the AGA chipset, (or very minimal emulation) the new chipset will not only what we expect out of diplay hardware of today but incorporate full blown GPU that supports the very latest open GL standards, the main cpu will be either COLDFIRE or PPC (probabily the latter) and multicore, also a 68k cpu for backwards compitibilty and also serve as an instruction set for the powerpc when the amiga is first switched on (copied to ppc l1/l2 cache) have 2 gb chip ram and 2gb fast have wifi/ethernet and usb3.0 connectivity, Bluray rom drive and other expandibility. the whole thing designed to run with discreet fanless cooling except for big box versions... and run 0S 4
4) the Amiga released in 3 versions a) a500/a1200 style wedge.. b) small tower workstation, c) big box tower/desktop with mass Zorro 4 connectivity (or pci express).. all with same base capabilities, the wedge version has bdrom drive inplace of floppy and connects to any tv via dvi or hdmi
the thing is there is a big hole in the personal computer market for a machine like this and windows boxes do not fill this void.. infact most people ditching them in favor of laptops to get on face book these days and an x86 emulation machine no one would buy, thats why amiga needs to go back to its roots..
on the "new" amiga platform games could be coded in 3 ways, a) opengl compiled for easy porting from and to console platforms, b) amiga api (warp3d) amiga unique api, or c) CTM close to metal like the original amiga line the would unlock the full potential of the amiga chipset and as they are all the same it would be ultimatley the way games are coded, the games market would boom again (im fed up of call of duty fps shooter clones) wheres the proper amiga games we all loved? could be remade
not only that, the amiga could bring back HOMEBREW programming (amos), DTV and 3d CGI imaging and movie SFX, i would like to see lightwave 10 on the new amiga.. sound and music generation and all the other things that started out on AMIGA... ultimatley tho i think the games market would save the AMIGA, consoles are for casual gamers only (i hardly play on my ps3, no decent games) pc has only crap ports of the same console games and game shops no longer stock pc games now because of this..
im a serious gamer i like my mouse and keyboard, i want to play K240, DUNE, UFO(XCOMM), REUNION, DEUTROS, STARTREK 25th, ALIEN BREED, SPEEDBALL, ISHAR TRILOGY, CIVILIZATION 1 (not the rest lol) i could go on and on and on...
the games on my xmas list this year are SKYRIM and Sword of the Stars 2.. and those are the only 2 games i will acquire this year, i want homeworld 3 but NOT more MODERN WARFARE 57 if thats the case the whole industry die a nasty death...
just my opinion lol sorry for the rambling lol :-)
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I've fallen in love with virtualisation. One Box, many operating systems. May many system has 12 cores running at 3 GHz, 64 GB of RAM and 2 TB of hard disk. UAE doesn't using even visibly raise the core usage. Heck I don't think UAE inside a virtual Windows box inside a virtual linux box would raise the core usage much. I'm not pulled six ways to sunday to try to support ram, video and the like on multiple boxes. I can split my three screens into three different OSs or allow (some of the OSs) to control all screens.
Plus if I'm doing something in another machine and UAE gurus I can keep doing what I am doing in that machine and just restart UAE.
To each his own, but give me a physical machine per OS anyday. While VMs are good for a few things a lot of the time there's no substitute for a dedicated machine. Performance hit just gets heavier and heavier per extra machine, regardless of cores. Even things like VT-x and AMD-V dont change that. Emulation of hardware hurts performance, not to mention drastic reductions in ram bandwidth. While not the most powerful machine around, my core i7-2600k + gf gtx570 noticably suffers while even running one additional OS concurrently when I do things like play recent games, 3d rendering, etc.
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but at the end of the day I'm sure people don't look at a Macbook Air in a store thinking "hmmm well it's not a REAL Mac..."
I do. Mac hasn't been Mac since the Intel switch.
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@commodorejohn
Is that sarcasm? Any "normal" users could not tell the difference between Tiger on a PPC and Tiger on an Intel Mac, apart from the fact that PPC apps ran a bit slower due to Rosetta. Apple executed the switch excellently, and if the resources were available, OS4 & MOS would do well to follow the same path.
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if i where a rich venture capitalist..
1) i would buy Commodore and CBM assosiated brands and patents, Amiga inc, Hyperion, and those dudes making the A1x1000? and anyone else involved, i would then reFORM Commodore Business Machines as it was, i would then go to West chester and kick out QVC and take back Commodore HQ..
2) acquire key personel involved in development of the original amiga chipset and set down a roadmap to developing a new amiga product line. .
3) A new Amiga would have a full chipset that is fully backwards compatible with older hardware, based upon the AGA chipset, (or very minimal emulation) the new chipset will not only what we expect out of diplay hardware of today but incorporate full blown GPU that supports the very latest open GL standards, the main cpu will be either COLDFIRE or PPC (probabily the latter) and multicore, also a 68k cpu for backwards compitibilty and also serve as an instruction set for the powerpc when the amiga is first switched on (copied to ppc l1/l2 cache) have 2 gb chip ram and 2gb fast have wifi/ethernet and usb3.0 connectivity, Bluray rom drive and other expandibility. the whole thing designed to run with discreet fanless cooling except for big box versions... and run 0S 4
4) the Amiga released in 3 versions a) a500/a1200 style wedge.. b) small tower workstation, c) big box tower/desktop with mass Zorro 4 connectivity (or pci express).. all with same base capabilities, the wedge version has bdrom drive inplace of floppy and connects to any tv via dvi or hdmi
the thing is there is a big hole in the personal computer market for a machine like this and windows boxes do not fill this void.. infact most people ditching them in favor of laptops to get on face book these days and an x86 emulation machine no one would buy, thats why amiga needs to go back to its roots..
on the "new" amiga platform games could be coded in 3 ways, a) opengl compiled for easy porting from and to console platforms, b) amiga api (warp3d) amiga unique api, or c) CTM close to metal like the original amiga line the would unlock the full potential of the amiga chipset and as they are all the same it would be ultimatley the way games are coded, the games market would boom again (im fed up of call of duty fps shooter clones) wheres the proper amiga games we all loved? could be remade
not only that, the amiga could bring back HOMEBREW programming (amos), DTV and 3d CGI imaging and movie SFX, i would like to see lightwave 10 on the new amiga.. sound and music generation and all the other things that started out on AMIGA... ultimatley tho i think the games market would save the AMIGA, consoles are for casual gamers only (i hardly play on my ps3, no decent games) pc has only crap ports of the same console games and game shops no longer stock pc games now because of this..
That would only cause you to loose a lot of money, because the Amiga market is just too small. Most people don't care and just want a computer for everyday, bog standard computing needs. Then there are the high end gamers with high end machines. These guys already have what they need.
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I do. Mac hasn't been Mac since the Intel switch.
And thank goodness for that! Macs were junk before the NeXTStep replacement and move to intel.
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My two cents.... when reading comments about PPC such as SAM not being Amiga etc I do recall reading an article in Amiga Format or CUAmiga, cant remember exactly which one, but do remember all the hype about the PPC expansions and how it would revolutionise the machine and help to push it on into the future and even back then it had been mentioned that down the road at some point the 68k would be dropped and the legacy software being run via some form of emulation, which is essentially what has happened.
x86 running UAE... well Amithlon and Amiga XL was an interesting concept, but having used it, I have to be honest I didnt really like it too much... UAE on Windoze, I wasnt too big a fan of that either... the speed increase was awesome and the ability to have a high resolution workbench with out the high expenditure that goes with it was great, but it just doesnt feel right.
I have Aros running on an Acer Aspire and I love it, it feels like workbench, its fast and its native, the OS itself seems to get knocked on some forums which I think is kind of unfair as the guys involved have done a great job :)
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Why would that be true? Neither are Amigas.
Sorry, 'custom chips' and Amiga go hand in hand. Amiga hardware: OCS/ECS/AGA+680x0. Basically the hardware from back in the day: A500/A600/A1000/A1200/A2000/A3000/A4000 (and some I missed) are Amigas.
Not in my view. A SAM with OS4 is an Amiga.
Not necessarily, a lot of computers have custom chipsets but they are not called Amigas.
And it's not 1985 anymore.
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My last sentence kinda covers it I thought (ie., from a stance of legality, license, etc.) , but basically what Im saying is a Sam is Amiga OS4 hardware, but not an Amiga. It's all semantics though as I said, I really couldnt care less.
Just the other side of the coin from the often heard, "its not amiga if its not the official continuiation of the sources" arguement. If it works one way (software), then it works the other too (hardware).
It runs OS4 then it's an Amiga, sorry it doesn't matter how you paint it.
And you seem to care enough though...:)
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It runs OS4 then it's an AmigaOne, sorry it doesn't matter how you paint it.
And you seem to care enough though...:)
Fixed it for you. :)
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And thank goodness for that! Macs were junk before the NeXTStep replacement and move to intel.
Actually I think that the iMac G3 - the first Mac that you could buy with OS X preinstalled was the best Mac they ever released. The technology was about two years old, but it was the finest CRT, a great all in one design with parts that really belonged together - much like todays iPad.
But - better than today - during that period Apple felt that it really needed 3rd party devellopers and open source software. So there was support for X11, Java, Flash and true standards. They even considered backward compatability to older Mac OSs as relevant. OK the box was sloooow, but it sucked less.
If you look at the circuit board of a PPC Mac and compare it to an Intel Mac that followed it, you will notice that the boards are less orderly and neat. You really can see the difference between standard industry layout and Apples custom secret sauce from the beginning of the century.
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Fixed it for you. :)
Really? Fixed it for you? Na, na na na na!
Grow up spammy!
My SAM with OS4 is MORE Amiga than any of your master's crap!
There fixed it for you. ;)
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Is the proposed price point of the ones Commodore USA were planning to build the actual problem, which was effectively maybe 4x the cost of the x86 components.
Put it this way, would you buy a reasonably priced A1200 look alike computer running on an i7 or an i5/Llano based A600 look alike computer?
And if this is something some people would consider what is a reasonable price point do you think for this sort of thing
I'm not saying it's good or bad I am asking if you took away the excessive price tags for the proposed Amiga/c64x i7 machines would they then become something you would consider, even as a novelty, to get your WinUAE kicks on for example?
Just had pasta (DeCecco Orecchiette Aglio&Olio) for my evening meal, but wouldn't mind about some Börek.
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Is that sarcasm? Any "normal" users could not tell the difference between Tiger on a PPC and Tiger on an Intel Mac, apart from the fact that PPC apps ran a bit slower due to Rosetta. Apple executed the switch excellently, and if the resources were available, OS4 & MOS would do well to follow the same path.
Okay, I suppose I was muddling things up a little bit there. My ire is for OSX as much as for the Intel switch, I kind of perceive them as the same thing since both happened after I was no longer using a Mac regularly.
And thank goodness for that! Macs were junk before the NeXTStep replacement and move to intel.
Even if that's true (and I disagree, I got along quite happily on classic Mac OS for years before I moved to PCs,) at least they were their own junk, and not just BSD with a non-X desktop environment.
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Not in my view. A SAM with OS4 is an Amiga.
I find that quite insulting to what Amiga really is :(
And it's not 1985 anymore.
Indeed!
It runs OS4 then it's an Amiga, sorry it doesn't matter how you paint it.
So, a SAM emulator running on a peecee will magically transform that peecee into an Amiga?
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It runs OS4 then it's an Amiga, sorry it doesn't matter how you paint it.
And you seem to care enough though...:)
No, if it runs OS4 then it runs OS4, still not technically an Amiga.
My Amithlon box runs AmigaOS, is that an Amiga? (and no its not entirely emulation, only the 68k side)
Legally, technically, license wise,etc. there's been no Amiga's since 68k machines went out of production.
Find me any sort of legal proof that disputes this and I'll happily concede, but you wont (cant).
And no, I really dont care. As Ive said 3 times now, Im simply discussing semantics. Im more interested in that then the actual topic.
Hyperion dont own the Amiga brand, nor do Acube or A-EON, ergo cant produce Amigas. As much as it pains me to say it only A.Inc (perhaps now C-USA, depending on what happened there) can produce computers that are Amigas. Will I buy them, or even support them? Absolutely not, but that changes nothing.
As I said before, if people want to play the "it's official 'cos its the legal successor using the original sources" game then its nothing but hypocricy to try to claim a Sam is an Amiga. Cant have it both ways. It's a vehicle for OS4, nothing more regardless of how you try to paint it.
These days the thing that dictates an amigan is what they do with thier machines, be it a classic user, an emulation user, a mos user, aros user, or an os4 user.
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My Amiga case with a PPC board is NOT false advertising.
It's an Amiga in an Amiga case (what makes an Amiga case is highly debatable anyway) running a real, proper Amiga Operating system.
Not some wannabe Linux based OS.
A LADA with a BMW body is still a LADA.
No, it's an OS4 compatible, OS4 being some software some Germans THINK is what is Amiga and need UAE to run Rocket Ranger.
How the fek is that Amiga? I can run classic software Amithlon on X86 hardware just as fast as on MOS or OS4 so that's full of fail.
If all you want is an OS4 computer cool, me I want either an Amiga or something that doesn't cost £1200+ for the "pleasure" of running what Hyperion wants me to think is Amiga :)
edit: I did NOT see the post above before writing my comment. What is plainly clear is had Amithlon been developed further we would have no need for the OS4 MOS pretenders :)
Amiga has a Paula chip and loads Cinemaware floppy disk originals with realtime access FACT. Anything else is emulation sorry if that offends people.
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Okay, I suppose I was muddling things up a little bit there. My ire is for OSX as much as for the Intel switch, I kind of perceive them as the same thing since both happened after I was no longer using a Mac regularly.
Even if that's true (and I disagree, I got along quite happily on classic Mac OS for years before I moved to PCs,) at least they were their own junk, and not just BSD with a non-X desktop environment.
NEXT OS for office environment is better than Windows 7/OS X or Linux. I am sorry that people feel the need to forget the past but as an ITIL qualified Service manager for 15 years you can take that as fact.
OSX does NOT include all features of NEXT OS even today sadly.
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I never said anything against NeXT, just that it isn't Mac.
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Just had pasta (DeCecco Orecchiette Aglio&Olio) for my evening meal, but wouldn't mind about some Börek.
The great thing about Börek is you can have both sweet and savoury versions, meaning you could still have it for afters too :)
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I never said anything against NeXT, just that it isn't Mac.
OSX took a bit of NEXT but yes I agree, NEXT <> Apple Mac sadly.
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@Thoram
>>I find that quite insulting to what Amiga really is
Sorry about that but there is concrete evidence about my statement
>>And it's not 1985 anymore. Indeed!
Exactly, so people can't carry on saying custom chips, custom chips with OS3.1
>>So, a SAM emulator running on a peecee will magically transform that peecee into an Amiga?
No if you read my posts carefully I haven't said that, read all my posts.
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@Amiga_Nut
>>No, it's an OS4 compatible, OS4 being some software some Germans THINK is what is Amiga and need UAE to run Rocket Ranger.
OS4 feels AmigaOS, has the code in it. OS4, for me, is more Amiga than AROS, MOS or WinUAE. Coupled with a suitable PPC board makes it an Amiga (to me). And just before you start, I have got AROS, MOS and WinUAE.
So based on the fact that I have OS4 and I use all the others I CAN come to an empirical conclusion.
>>How the fek is that Amiga? I can run classic software Amithlon on X86 hardware just as fast as on MOS or OS4 so that's full of fail.
You really need to read my posts better. We are not discussing IF we can run classic software as fast or faster. This is not the point.
>>If all you want is an OS4 computer cool, me I want either an Amiga or something that doesn't cost £1200+ for the "pleasure" of running what Hyperion wants me to think is Amiga
You are free to do so :)
>>edit: I did NOT see the post above before writing my comment. What is plainly clear is had Amithlon been developed further we would have no need for the OS4 MOS pretenders
It's still an emu isn't it?
>>Amiga has a Paula chip and loads Cinemaware floppy disk originals with realtime access FACT. Anything else is emulation sorry if that offends people.
But it's an Amiga from 1985. That is an Amiga as much as a SAM with OS4. It came first. Nobody wrote it in stone that an Amiga has to have a custom chipset or load "floppies" to be an Amiga. My Minimig is an Amiga. It loads games from a SD Card and it's faster, way faster than my A500.
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@fishy_fiz
>>No, if it runs OS4 then it runs OS4, still not technically an Amiga.
How is that? Technically define Amiga.
So a motherboard with PPC (which the real Amiga had by the way) running AmigaOS is not an Amiga? Really?
>>My Amithlon box runs AmigaOS, is that an Amiga? (and no its not entirely emulation, only the 68k side)
To me it isn't. If you read my posts I have got them all and it doesn't feel Amiga as much as OS4. It's a personal thing.
There haven't been "official" Amigas since Commodore died. But you are discussing my impression and experience and I am saying that based on my experience of all the AmigaOS/hardware spin offs OS4 feels like home.
>>Hyperion dont own the Amiga brand, nor do Acube or A-EON, ergo cant produce Amigas.
True. But they make the closest thing to an Amiga (whatever that may be), my point of view.
>>As much as it pains me to say it only A.Inc (perhaps now C-USA, depending on what happened there) can produce computers that are Amigas. Will I buy them, or even support them? Absolutely not, but that changes nothing.
And this is where I believe you are wrong because from what you say whoever has the name can make the REAL stuff? This is absolute nonsense. So I set up a company that makes the "real" Amigas, let's say a perfect reproduction in hardware of an A1200 but more modern, a Natami for example. But because it's called a Natami it's not an Amiga because Amiga Inc. or CUSA haven't put the name on? Ridiculous.
>>As I said before, if people want to play the "it's official 'cos its the legal successor using the original sources" game then its nothing but hypocricy to try to claim a Sam is an Amiga. Cant have it both ways. It's a vehicle for OS4, nothing more regardless of how you try to paint it.
You need to define real Amiga. Otherwise your point is moot.
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@TheDaddy
To me the only real Amiga is my Amiga 500. It has the original chip set and original code in, done by original Amiga engineers.
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Is the proposed price point of the ones Commodore USA were planning to build the actual problem, which was effectively maybe 4x the cost of the x86 components.
Put it this way, would you buy a reasonably priced A1200 look alike computer running on an i7 or an i5/Llano based A600 look alike computer?
And if this is something some people would consider what is a reasonable price point do you think for this sort of thing
I'm not saying it's good or bad I am asking if you took away the excessive price tags for the proposed Amiga/c64x i7 machines would they then become something you would consider, even as a novelty, to get your WinUAE kicks on for example?
Btw while I like my Morphed Macs I don't really understand why x86 is more wrong than PPC, MIPS, Alpha, or any other platform?
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There is no problem with your definition of "Amiga". There are a lot of different definitions right now and all are ok (as long as they are based on the heritage). But that is only the definition of a part of the community. For me emotionally what is not using custom chips (or at least reimplementing them like f.e. the Natami) is not Amiga. So all NG platforms are more or less the same for me (except that Aros is more sympathic to me because it is open, independent and free of charge and running on standard hardware). But I have no problem with different views. But we should not discuss about the differences but how we could connect the different platforms and to improve the situation (f.e. by hardware-addons)
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No, it's an OS4 compatible, OS4 being some software some Germans THINK is what is Amiga and need UAE to run Rocket Ranger.
How the fek is that Amiga? I can run classic software Amithlon on X86 hardware just as fast as on MOS or OS4 so that's full of fail.
It's not Amiga. It's AmigaOS. Like it or not, that's just the way it is. Like others have said, there haven't been "Amiga" computers produced since the Escom / AT days. You've got AmigaOS running on some Amigas and some other machines, Amiga-like OSes running on other machines, and emulators running OS3.x. None of them are actually Amigas, but they're all close, all have their advantages and disadvantages, and all suit different tasks.
Amiga has a Paula chip and loads Cinemaware floppy disk originals with realtime access FACT. Anything else is emulation sorry if that offends people.
True, that's a fact, but it's also a rubbish definition. What if Paula had been upgraded for AGA? I personally think Paula should've been ditched and replaced for the AGA chipset, but would that have meant the A1200 and 4000 weren't Amigas? Also, I have a couple of Amigas without floppy drives, thus they can't run Cinemaware from the original disks. Does that mean they're no longer Amigas? I really don't get this obsession with Cinemaware anyway, and certainly can't understand how that makes an Amiga, especially since none of my Amigas have ever run it. It is a fact that Amigas have Paula and run Cinemaware, but that's only a couple of arbitrary features which are conveniently cobbled together to take the place of a proper definition. Sorry if that offends you.
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@TheDaddy
To me the only real Amiga is my Amiga 500. It has the original chip set and original code in, done by original Amiga engineers.
That would be the Amiga 1000 (or just "Amiga" as the first were called), the A500 was a cost reduced version by commodore.
What if Paula had been upgraded for AGA?
It wouldn't matter. Whatever commodore designed for AGA would have become an AGA Amiga. AAA was also an Amiga, albeit unfinished.
The Amiga Technlogies machines were also Amiga's, they were basically the same as the commodore machines.
There are no Amiga's produced since then.
You can't make an Amiga, in the same way you can't make a Ford Fusion.
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That would be the Amiga 1000 (or just "Amiga" as the first were called), the A500 was a cost reduced version by commodore.
It wouldn't matter. Whatever commodore designed for AGA would have become an AGA Amiga. AAA was also an Amiga, albeit unfinished.
The Amiga Technlogies machines were also Amiga's, they were basically the same as the commodore machines.
There are no Amiga's produced since then.
You can't make an Amiga, in the same way you can't make a Ford Fusion.
What's a Ford Fusion?
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I sometimes wonder when people say that a computer running AmigaOS4 is not really an Amiga.
So according to this logic, the calculator tool running under AmigaOS is not really a calculator?
Why do we need the primitive (by todays standards) Amiga custom chips to call the computer an Amiga?
While some people were using Amiga's just for playing games without touching AmigaOS ever, some of us were using Amigas purely for AmigaOS not caring about custom chips at all. Actually some of us were using RTG graphics cards and sounds cards to overcome the limitations of the Custom chips!
Simply make the new AmigaOS x86 emulate custom chips using "custom chipset drivers" instead of running things inside UAE. That way everything will be seamless.
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I sometimes wonder when people say that a computer running AmigaOS4 is not really an Amiga.
There are a few Amigas running PPC accelerator and OS4. The vast majority of the systems running OS4 are AmigaOne and Pegs and SAMs.
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>>And it's not 1985 anymore. Indeed!
Exactly, so people can't carry on saying custom chips, custom chips with OS3.1
What I mean is that I don't see why people have to keep assigning the name Amiga to machines which are not Amigas.
>>So, a SAM emulator running on a peecee will magically transform that peecee into an Amiga?
No if you read my posts carefully I haven't said that, read all my posts.
If you said this, then you implied it:
It runs OS4 then it's an Amiga, sorry it doesn't matter how you paint it.
My Minimig is an Amiga.
No, it's an FPGA computer.
So a motherboard with PPC (which the real Amiga had by the way) running AmigaOS is not an Amiga? Really?
Of course it's not. Just like a Draco isn't an Amiga, but a 680x0 AmigaOs platform. You can ask yourself, if you run a 680x0 MacOS on the Amiga, will your Amiga become a Mac?
You can't make an Amiga, in the same way you can't make a Ford Fusion.
Yes, you can, because you can reverse engineer the chipset, and do an exact copy. Very pricey, but technically entirely possible. Same goes for a Ford Fusion.
I sometimes wonder when people say that a computer running AmigaOS4 is not really an Amiga.
Because that would mean that, for example, a SAM emulator running AmigaOS4, would transform the peecee it's running on into an Amiga, and that is just none sense.
Amiga is defined by the hardware, and not the OS. If I run some sort of 680x0 Amiga port of a linux, then the machine is still an Amiga. In fact, it doesn't matter what a computer runs at all, it's still the same hardware.
Why do we need the primitive (by todays standards) Amiga custom chips to call the computer an Amiga?
Because that's what Amigas are: Computers from the past, and some people can't seem to get over that fact, and they have to keep assigning the name Amiga to computers that aren't Amigas.
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@Thoram
>>What I mean is that I don't see why people have to keep assigning the name Amiga to >>machines which are not Amigas.
Exactly, it's all down to personal experience and after testing a few "Amigas" I personally think that OS4+SAM (X1000 which I haven't tested yet) is the Amiga for me more than any other combinations and as much as Amiga as, dare I say, an A500! :)
>>My Minimig is an Amiga.
>>No, it's an FPGA computer.
Again you fall in the trap of considering Amigas just the Commodore machines. From my perspective and point of view it's an Amiga. It even has a 68000 cpu! :)
>>Of course it's not. Just like a Draco isn't an Amiga, but a 680x0 AmigaOs platform. You >>can ask yourself, if you run a 680x0 MacOS on the Amiga, will your Amiga become a Mac?
It depends how you run it. Natively, emulated?
>>Amiga is defined by the hardware, and not the OS. If I run some sort of 680x0 Amiga port of a linux, then the machine is still an Amiga. In fact, it doesn't matter what a computer runs at all, it's still the same hardware.
And who decides that? That is nonsense. So the only machines that can be called an Amiga are the Commodore machines?
So when I speak to someone I have to say "I have a dedicated PPC motherboard configured to run AmigaOS4 which is the natural and spiritual successor of the operating system present on the machines once produced by the now defunct Commodore"? I just say I have a new generation Amiga, because that is what it is. ;)
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Hahahaha! Listen to you lot!!! If it runs the software you need to run what the fcuk does it matter what it's called? :lol:
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Because that's what Amigas are: Computers from the past, and some people can't seem to get over that fact, and they have to keep assigning the name Amiga to computers that aren't Amigas.
No. Only the Amigas from Amiga1000 to Amiga4000T are computers from the past and anyone can continue to fix and use them.
An Amiga does not need Custom chipsets to be called an Amiga. I don't want to use "for example Wordworth" at this age either. So dump classic compatibility altogether.
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I think we have several different questions here.
What is Amiga in 2012?
What would have been Amiga in 2012 if Commodore hadn't gone out of business?
What should carry the Amiga name?
What could the Amiga be in 2022?
For me I love playing with AOS, it reminds me of the days when I first started with computers, the days when your phone, tv and refrigerator weren't part computer. A large percentage of computer users weren't just users, they were also experimenters and tinkerers.
Computers nowadays are appliances, the vast majority of users are just users. Computers entertain but they don't really engage us anymore. Technology has advanced to the point I can't possibly fathom what's going on inside the computer or all the bits that make it work. Operating systems go to great lengths to hide that complexity.
The old Amigas are like flying a b-plane instead of an A380. On an Amiga bugs get in your teeth, and you are far more likely to crash. You are going to have to actually control the machine and not trust the levels of software between you and the hardware. It'll get you there but you are going to feel the journey, every air pocket and downdraft. The journey will be longer, harder, but the sense of accomplishment at the end will be far greater.
Oh, who am I kidding, just load up the game already....
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What would have been Amiga in 2012 if Commodore hadn't gone out of business?
It's likely that commodore would have come up with a new name by now.
If hombre had launched then it would not have been sold as an amiga, it wasn't considered one at all.
Windows NT would probably have powered their desktop machines, although they wouldn't have been x86 based as Microsoft were very interested in supporting other cpu's at the time.
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I reckon if Commodore had survived they would of been producing windows boxes anyhow, after all they were already putting out 286 and 386 IBM clones with the PC-50 & PC-60 and lets face it when windows 95 took off it was everywhere and a big money maker for producers of hardware especially when multimedia was the buzzword at the time. So in all likelyhood the Classic Amiga platform would of likely faded away as all its qualities that made it a superior platform in the 80s and 90s made it inferior and non standard as well as overpriced at that time. I do remember during the Escom ownership seeing PCs on sale in Tandy here in Dundee, they also had A1200 Magic Packs but they were sat on a shelf above the sales counter as it was the PCs that everyone was interested in and thats where the money was being made.
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Happy Christmas everyone! :)
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thank you. You too. And of course for everyone! :)
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The last Amigas were made by Escom, and apparently there are people who can't accept this, which is not relevant of course. They can believe what ever they want to believe, but it doesn't change what Amigas are.
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The last Amigas were made by Escom, and apparently there are people who can't accept this, which is not relevant of course. They can believe what ever they want to believe, but it doesn't change what Amigas are.
And last PC's had 286 cpus with ISA slots for expansions and 640k base memory and run DOS.
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Any hardware in any case can be for anyone, anything they want it to be in reality. I have some Amiga cases devoid of hardware. Guess what? Do you honestly expect me to hunt down A2000 parts and bring those cases back from the dead this way? Not for me...
I'll stuff one full of x86 hardware, and run Amithlon and think nothing of it. In fact, when MOS 2.0 came out, I had an Efika board in an A2000 case. This was a funny one because Efika sat up on the drive tray and the entire bottom of the case was totally empty :lol:. I never called either of them original Amiga's so never lost sleep over any of this. I see some really cool case hacks out there. An x86 A1000, or mac mini A1200. It is all quite interesting to see.
Bottom line, people can do whatever they want. Or in the case of companies, do whatever they are legally or otherwise qualified to do (a company called Commodore that happens to have a c64 product that happens to be in a case that looks like a Commodore64 case). I say good for them and good for anybody in whatever it is that they do. :)
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I would LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE to open a box with a brand spanking new Amiga A600, with all that fresh new plastic smell, embozzed Amiga logo on the case, crispy new mouse, plug it in and it boots up to Icaros on X86. m68K is just dumb to try to build a new machine around, PPC is too damn expensive for the only benefit of running AmigaOS 4.1. PPC is just an ugly dead-end. x86 is the only affordable option forward, has the most flexibility for reusing the setup, and whatever… Just go x86 even if you have to use uae for backwards stuff.
I would pre-buy that this very moment without a single hesitation if they could get that price under $700, had a cool app store-like deal where I can go software for free or purchase. Make the ecosystem. One website to buy my thing, buy some add-ons, and get my software in electronic download form. Don't make me have to order a cardboard box to come in my mailbox with a shiney disk that I'm then forced to load via a stupid CD-rom drive that I ALSO have to buy and setup. That's hyper stupid in 2012. This also makes it super easy for hobby developers to make cool apps for sale without having to worry about HOW to market, press, and distribute it. Like Aminet, but people can get paid.
I would like a HD option, but the base could easily be Compact Flash-based with two slots on the back. I would want to be able to simply plug in a CF card with any OS I wanted for the moment and rock out. Add USB ports in the back, stereo sound, and DVI or VGA out. Sell optional external floppy drives, CD-ROMs, etc, just keep that heavy and power-loving crap out of the case itself. Then if possible integrate the power in the case and I'm happy as a pig in poop.
I would buy this now!
-Alex
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had a cool app store-like deal where I can go software for free or purchase.
Your app store. (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=windows+software)
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And last PC's had 286 cpus with ISA slots for expansions and 640k base memory and run DOS.
PC just means Personal Computer, and they never stopped making those :) Oh, wait, you mean IBM Compatibles? Yeah, they stopped making those, right :lol:
And I really don't care anymore. If people want to call everything Amiga, then it's their good right, and seeing how stubborn they are I'm going to stop RIGHT HERE :)
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No. Only the Amigas from Amiga1000 to Amiga4000T are computers from the past and anyone can continue to fix and use them.
An Amiga does not need Custom chipsets to be called an Amiga. I don't want to use "for example Wordworth" at this age either. So dump classic compatibility altogether.
This is an interesting point, if we dump all the historic applications and games for Amiga what are we left with? Sure I agree new stuff like a decent web browser on the level of Chrome is way off for OS4/MoS but if it has nothing to do with the past and only emulates what makes an Amiga an Amiga then why should it be allowed to be called Amiga Next Gen when my PC does all that via Windows except run MoS or OS4 (both of which are nothing special at all).
These Amiga Next Gen systems have less sophisticated custom silicon in them than my two PCs and also run slower. I remember the Amiga being faster and cheaper than PC/Mac thanks to unique design....not slower and more expensive.
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none of the Amiga cases was as iconic as the original C64. So I think there is not as much value in giving us "just the case".
I think the A500 is as iconic/recognisable.
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The last Amigas were made by Escom, and apparently there are people who can't accept this, which is not relevant of course. They can believe what ever they want to believe, but it doesn't change what Amigas are.
They were "made" by Amiga Technologies and sold by Escom. All they did though was manufacture the final commodore designs. The only difference between an Amiga technologies A1200 and a commodore A1200 is they added some jumper wires to allow the PC high density floppy drive to work at all (it's better to undo that and modify the drive as then you can get RDY to work as well).
If you buy the pcb design & case molds and get someone to manufacture them then you can call that an Amiga too. Although you'll need the custom chips, I suspect that Amiga Technologies never had any of these made though and they just were NOS chips from commodore.
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Yeah, Apple had been doing a Doomy with it's military spec G5s. Since they had been running on both intel and PPC/IBM for years they knew when PPC performance fell behind intel and they were telling people how wonderful PPC performance was when in fact they KNEW it sucked compared to intel.
When they finally pulled the switch everybody notice how much faster the intels ran and praised them for it rather than pointing out their lies....
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Make you wonder, what if Commodore decided to do an Apple and go x86. Would all the no Intel narks still criticise it? IMHO the only reason Apple (and Commodore third party) went with PowerPC was because it was a natural replacement for the 68000 series. When Motorola dropped the ball Apple had no choice, if Commodore still existed it'd do the same imho.
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Transition added a new selection for the poll. Please pick your favorite choice if you have not voted yet.
Here is a link for those that don't understand the reference.
http://www.cafepress.com/amizilla.9875668
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IMHO the only reason Apple (and Commodore third party) went with PowerPC was because it was a natural replacement for the 68000 series.
It wasn't that natural, Phase5 only did it because of Apple.
PPC wasn't the only processor choice for Apple, but IBM/Motorola looked like they had a decent roadmap.
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As far as I can see you just added another option which is the same as option 1.
And oh look, it happened to bump the thread out of its grave.
I've sen so many dead threads bumped back in the last week it's looking like Sean of the Dead here.
Annoying thing is that sometimes good threads get kicked off the front page to make room for arguments that are done and dusted.... and what makes it worse is who do you complain to when it's the moderators who are doing the bumping??
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As far as I can see you just added another option which is the same as option 1.
And oh look, it happened to bump the thread out of its grave.
I've sen so many dead threads bumped back in the last week it's looking like Sean of the Dead here.
Annoying thing is that sometimes good threads get kicked off the front page to make room for arguments that are done and dusted.... and what makes it worse is who do you complain to when it's the moderators who are doing the bumping??
I take that to mean your not a fan of women's thong underwear? You could complain to Orson Wells. Which good threads got bumped off the front page?
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PC guts in an Amiga style case. Hmm. If it shipped running something like AROS or an updated Amithlon, maybe. Otherwise, no. Other than a case, what would be the point? I have cases and I have ample experience in building PCs in different form factors.
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I take that to mean your not a fan of women's thong underwear? You could complain to Orson Wells. Which good threads got bumped off the front page?
The 11th thread is another one that you bumped (about C=USA "coincidentally"). The 12th one, and therefore the one that would have been on the front page had the zombie threads not been raised up from Thread Purgatory, was a perfectly reasonable question asking about C64 emulation on the A1200.
And whether or not I'm a fan of women's underwear (what is this, Commodore-Amiga.org?) is beside the point, that's not the kind of "Amiga" I come to Amiga.org for. :)
Please, just let these threads go off. If people want to contribute, they can still see them in the last 50 posts or whatever. But bumping zombie threads (or transparent excuses like adding a junk option about women's underwear to a finished poll) is doing nobody any favours. It seems like the mods aren't moderating any more so much as trying to prod contentious issues to raise arguments and get more bandwidth.
Can't we get back to talking about what we all have in common, i.e. the Amiga? That's certainly what the results of the poll in this very thread say.
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Yes, talking about Amiga is a great idea for this site.
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same junk again here:madashell: look Commodore themselves already tried unsuccessfully to put their logo on PC's back in the day and guess what happened to that venture:afro:..all power to CUSA for trying but this is the WRONG place to preach this crap...go over to the Linux forums please !
I've got many logos and stickers here to put on PC cases but I won't even waste a sticker as the thought is just absolutely absurd to me
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For retro and sentimental value, there would be a lot of interested parties I suspect. At 4x the price of any comparable machine just via the fact it's a "custom case", not up my alley in the least but such offerings have appealed to some people I suppose.
I always hated the Amiga wedge boxes, but if I had the option to purchase an A4000 style or other Amiga retro case that took commodity form PC motherboards, I would gladly if it was from a reputable company. If and only if the price on said cases is comparable to the otherwise already available "generic" PC cases by guys like Thermaltake and etc. AIO/wedge PC's have always turned my stomach, even going back to the A500, heh - again, just preference. I do understand why people likethem from a space saving aspect, though - but I've been using a KVM for 10 years, so space isn't much of a concern.
I have never been a fan of buying prebuilt pc's, regardless of what case they come in, mainly due to the fact putting together a custom PC via components is dead simple even for a first timer these days. Same reason I had no interest in the X1000 since you cannot just buy the motherboard/OS package sans case, but building my own rigs is mainly preference and it's infinitely cheaper than buying prebuilt more enthusiast grade pc's. If you can operate a TV remote, you can assemble a PC from parts.
Last prebuilt desktop PC I bought was in the late 90's, tbh - and I'd never buy one again for personal use, so the prebuilt fully built system ideal doesn't appeal to me.
Hi,
@Duce,
Wow, the last PC you had was in the 90's, that is if I understood you correctly, tell you what take a look see at TigerDirect.com and look at what the new PC's cost today, and look at what they can do. They have gone well beyond AGA and Paula, the graphics and sound are really great. I am running Cloanto's Amiga Forever on my new 6 core PC, and no way would I ever go back to a single processor PC of any type (even Amiga). AF runs so smooth that it makes my A4000 look sick (well not really) just a lot faster. Have no problems running ADF files and it even does programs like DPaint and Pen Pal. Is it Amiga, NO, but then again by running the AF emulator, I am saving my old Amiga silicon. Have a nice day.
smerf
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Smerf,
Last "real" Amiga I used regularly was in the 90's. Sold my A4000 back then, went to the PC. 4-5 years ago I picked up a PPC 1200, hated it. Bought a SAM 440 shortly thereafter, love it. It currently runs an old school telnet BBS, but doesn't see much use otherwise.
I build PC's for a living, and currently have an i7 running at 4ghz, with 2 590's, 24 GB RAM and jammed full of SSD's. Mainly used for gaming, obviously.
My daily driver Amiga is an Amithlon box that hauls complete ass.
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When is this crap about non-Amigas going to end? Oh, wait, I know: Never :(
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Are you using the Amithlon to do anything besides transporting farm animals?
Smerf,
Last "real" Amiga I used regularly was in the 90's. Sold my A4000 back then, went to the PC. 4-5 years ago I picked up a PPC 1200, hated it. Bought a SAM 440 shortly thereafter, love it. It currently runs an old school telnet BBS, but doesn't see much use otherwise.
I build PC's for a living, and currently have an i7 running at 4ghz, with 2 590's, 24 GB RAM and jammed full of SSD's. Mainly used for gaming, obviously.
My daily driver Amiga is an Amithlon box that hauls complete ass.(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3246/2939624144_2c2a667b36_o.jpg)
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Hi,
@Duce,
Looked at the I7's and really like them, but once again cost is the factor, decided to go with a 6 core AMD 1090T, now wouldn't you believe it but the week after I bought the 1090T, they came out with the 1100T. Oh well can't keep up to date with the movement of todays Personal Computers. By the way I don't consider anything built by Apple as a real computer. If you can't mess with the OS, or change the hardware then it is classified as junk in my book.
This forum right here reminds me of "When does a Harley stop being a Harley? question. After you change the motor, the frame, the steering forks. Or does it just continue being a Harley as long as you keep the name tag on it?
smerf
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Its a yes and a no from me, I'm a fan of aros and of amiga emulation and I quite like the old idea of having the whole computer inside the keyboard. The thing for me is that it should be true to it self and aim it self at the retro market much like the atari flashback device or Blaze Mega drive system,
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Blaze-Atari-Flashback-3-Console/dp/B005HGDPCM/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1326731122&sr=8-2
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Megadrive-Player-Console-Games-built/dp/B003ZJ28HQ/ref=pd_sim_vg_h__7
Both these system sell for less than £40, brilliant for retro fans and i think Clusteruk had the right idea to try and make a aros machine for less than £100 and now maybe see if they can get it on the Raspberry Pi for $25 would be really cool. Lets face it to run every amiga app you dont need a lot of power. Putting it all inside of a nice looking retro case would be really nice as long as it doest add too much to the cost, like a c64 replica at $400 to me is just a little too much too me.