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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Software Issues and Discussion => Topic started by: orb85750 on November 24, 2011, 03:58:16 PM

Title: OS 3.9 crazy boot time????
Post by: orb85750 on November 24, 2011, 03:58:16 PM
Just *after* I paid and he shipped, the seller over at AmiBay disclosed the following to me:

"There was one more thing I wanted to tell you about the system. The boot time when you first start it up is 45 seconds until you get the Workbench background with the icons on the left side of the page. It is a full 2'30" until the background graphics loads."

What the hell, this is worse than MS Windows.  Is something wrong?  This is the system I just bought:

http://www.amibay.com/showthread.php?t=22372

Thanks for any insight you can offer.
Title: Re: OS 3.9 crazy boot time????
Post by: Jeff on November 24, 2011, 04:12:15 PM
Is the network card plugged in?  I know that can cause a significant delay on an OS 4.x system. Sorry if that doesn't help.  I'm sure you will get it sorted - Nice System!
Title: Re: OS 3.9 crazy boot time????
Post by: efrenmgp on November 24, 2011, 04:17:53 PM
That's a lot of time I agree...

I would say it's just a matter of reviewing startup-sequence and user-startup to determine what's taking so long, but seeing how heavily modified it is, maybe you'll need to verify how everything is connected.

For example, I see the card and the CD on the back of the computer, those may be IDE and IIRC the A1200's IDE port is no good with 2 devices unless you add special hardware. I'm just guessing but wouldn't that contribute to the long startup time? :confused:

Anyway, you're in for some testing once you receive the computer.

Regards,
efrenmgp
Title: Re: OS 3.9 crazy boot time????
Post by: doctorq on November 24, 2011, 04:55:55 PM
Neither network card, nor two devices on the IDE controller adds to the boot time. I'm more convinced that it's caused by the software not been configured correctly, icons in chip ram, missing patches, etc. Having a fullblown background picture on 1230 takes time; disabling it will save you from a lot of the waiting time.
Title: Re: OS 3.9 crazy boot time????
Post by: Khephren on November 24, 2011, 05:18:45 PM
Quote from: doctorq;668923
Neither network card, nor two devices on the IDE controller adds to the boot time. I'm more convinced that it's caused by the software not been configured correctly, icons in chip ram, missing patches, etc. Having a fullblown background picture on 1230 takes time; disabling it will save you from a lot of the waiting time.


Dunno about that. For years I ran my A1200/030/50 with no patches, new icons and a full desktop picture. It booted in well under a minute.

I'd be tempted to wipe it and start again. At least you would know exactly what's on there.
Title: Re: OS 3.9 crazy boot time????
Post by: nicholas on November 24, 2011, 05:22:42 PM
I'd just install PFS to the RDB, format the drive and install a fresh copy of OS3.9 + BB1 + BB2 + BB3 and then carry on from there.
Title: Re: OS 3.9 crazy boot time????
Post by: doctorq on November 24, 2011, 05:26:43 PM
Quote from: Khephren;668925
Dunno about that. For years I ran my A1200/030/50 with no patches, new icons and a full desktop picture. It booted in well under a minute.

I'd be tempted to wipe it and start again. At least you would know exactly what's on there.


There is a difference between running OS3.9 with what seems to be a .jpg, to a OS3.1 setup with NewIcons and a iff background (which I'm guessing is what you had).
Title: Re: OS 3.9 crazy boot time????
Post by: Khephren on November 24, 2011, 06:07:50 PM
True, you'd have to be crazy to have a JPG on that spec machine. Here's hoping it's that simple. There's nothing worse than getting a new toy and having to fix it before use.
Title: Re: OS 3.9 crazy boot time????
Post by: bbond007 on November 24, 2011, 06:31:49 PM
Quote from: orb85750;668913
Just *after* I paid and he shipped, the seller over at AmiBay disclosed the following to me:[/url]

Thanks for any insight you can offer.

That is a awesome A1200! I saw that on AMIBAY and wanted it  :)

I have 2 SATA ports that I have connected to eSATA ports, if I forget to turn on my external devices the FastATA driver will pause for a short while. I think the 4xIDE thing I had before was the same way. If you have some such device you may want to run the configuration tool for it and make sure to just save the settings. You can also just disable the driver in the startup-sequence and see if that improves your boot time but that will disable potentially all but your "System" partition.

Oops, I typed all that and realized you only had a 1GB CF. Still you may have  a 4xIDE adapter looking for a HD that the previous owner removed :)

You could always just make new CF card. 1GB is way too small... 4GB is really what you want. I would suggest installing ClassicWB ADV or ADVSP and OS 3.1.

http://classicwb.abime.net/index.htm
Title: Re: OS 3.9 crazy boot time????
Post by: Heiroglyph on November 24, 2011, 10:31:48 PM
Between the IDE timeout, multiple drive controllers, kickstart reboot and too large background image, my 4000 is in similar shape.

I'd bet you could trim that down without a lot of problem.
Title: Re: OS 3.9 crazy boot time????
Post by: bbond007 on November 24, 2011, 10:37:28 PM
Quote from: Heiroglyph;668961
Between the IDE timeout, multiple drive controllers, kickstart reboot and too large background image, my 4000 is in similar shape.

I'd bet you could trim that down without a lot of problem.


Not only that but he could be having multiple reboots with Setpatch, LoadModule, PrepareEmul, etc...
Title: Re: OS 3.9 crazy boot time????
Post by: orb85750 on November 25, 2011, 02:59:45 AM
Hi guys.  Thanks for all your insights!  I'll count on spending some time with the machine once I receive it to see if there is some easy way to remedy the situation.  I suppose in the worst case, I can always make some coffee or tea every time I turn on the computer. :-)
Title: Re: OS 3.9 crazy boot time????
Post by: Ancalimon on November 25, 2011, 03:13:37 AM
Quote from: bbond007;668963
Not only that but he could be having multiple reboots with Setpatch, LoadModule, PrepareEmul, etc...


In that case he will need to use blizkick if his accelerator supports it. Have been using it for a long time. Great program
Title: Re: OS 3.9 crazy boot time????
Post by: save2600 on November 25, 2011, 04:27:33 AM
Is that CD/DVD combo drive a recordable deal by any chance? Every Amiga I've ever hooked one of those to, or any SCSI device that records, besides a HD, has always been a thorn in my side boot time wise. Something about logical unit numbers or some stupid **** that nobody should ever be bothered with. Even dealing with all the stupidity like changing drive and device numbers makes no difference.

To make matters worse, no version of your commercial software such as AsimCDFS, diddling termination or changing jumper settings (timeout or otherwise) has ever fixed that little "minor" irritation, which currently has me frosted with my current setup. Like I'd ever go through all the hoops necessary to burn, close and finalize a CD or DVD (even if it did accidentally work) using an Amiga. Pfffft.    :mad:

Seriously, anyone want this recordable SCSI Plextor/Plexwriter, whatever it's called POS? Gladly exchange it for a nice read only drive. Wish I never sold my nice read only NEC that worked flawlessly and allowed my system to boot in mere seconds, like a regular Amiga should and would running 3.1.  :(
Title: Re: OS 3.9 crazy boot time????
Post by: AmiDude on November 25, 2011, 09:29:38 AM
Quote from: save2600;668984
Is that CD/DVD combo drive a recordable deal by any chance? Every Amiga I've ever hooked one of those to, or any SCSI device that records, besides a HD, has always been a thorn in my side boot time wise. Something about logical unit numbers or some stupid **** that nobody should ever be bothered with. Even dealing with all the stupidity like changing drive and device numbers makes no difference.

To make matters worse, no version of your commercial software such as AsimCDFS, diddling termination or changing jumper settings (timeout or otherwise) has ever fixed that little "minor" irritation, which currently has me frosted with my current setup. Like I'd ever go through all the hoops necessary to burn, close and finalize a CD or DVD (even if it did accidentally work) using an Amiga. Pfffft.    :mad:

Seriously, anyone want this recordable SCSI Plextor/Plexwriter, whatever it's called POS? Gladly exchange it for a nice read only drive. Wish I never sold my nice read only NEC that worked flawlessly and allowed my system to boot in mere seconds, like a regular Amiga should and would running 3.1.  :(


I never had any problems using recordable CD drives on any of my Amiga's. I'm using MakeCD for burning CD's without any problems. Here's a tip for y'all:
Don't mount CD0 at the startup-sequence, but only when you need to read/write data from/to a CD (when Workbench is already there). This way it decreases boot-time.
Title: Re: OS 3.9 crazy boot time????
Post by: Bamiga2002 on November 25, 2011, 10:35:29 AM
Quote from: AmiDude;668994
I never had any problems using recorable CD drives on any of my Amiga's. I'm using MakeCD for burning CD's without any problems. Here's a tip for y'all:
Don't mount CD0 at the startup-sequence, but only when you need to read/write data from/to a CD (when Workbench is already there). This way it decreases boot-time.
But wouldn't that go against the "plug'n'play" philosophy of the Amiga? :rtfm:
Title: Re: OS 3.9 crazy boot time????
Post by: Thorham on November 25, 2011, 10:40:43 AM
Quote from: save2600;668984
Seriously, anyone want this recordable SCSI Plextor/Plexwriter, whatever it's called POS? Gladly exchange it for a nice read only drive. Wish I never sold my nice read only NEC that worked flawlessly and allowed my system to boot in mere seconds, like a regular Amiga should and would running 3.1.  :(
My A1200 boots the way it should be and I have a DVD rewriter hooked up to it. You're doing it wrong :p
Title: Re: OS 3.9 crazy boot time????
Post by: Daedalus on November 25, 2011, 01:08:21 PM
From what he's saying, it's only 45 seconds until the icons are visible - that doesn't sound like anything's holding up the startup sequence all that much, especially if the machine's loaded with graphics cards, network cards, lots of drives etc. If it's just the background image that's taking that long, I'd put money on it being a JPG image, and possible even set in the preferences to "Scale well", which is very, very slow on anything other than a simple IFF. Load the background pic into ImageFX, TVPaint or something and save it as an IFF with a similar resolution to the Workbench screen, and set the prefs to "Centred" instead and it'll cut 2 minutes off that time.

Edit: Just read the advert now - if the background picture has more colours than the Workbench has free pens then that'll add to the delay as well. And whatever about an 060, an 030 is going to take an age to scale any image.
Title: Re: OS 3.9 crazy boot time????
Post by: AmiDude on November 25, 2011, 03:04:24 PM
Quote from: Bamiga2002;668996
But wouldn't that go against the "plug'n'play" philosophy of the Amiga? :rtfm:


I guess you don't understand it entirely... You can hook up a CD player/writer to you Amiga, but only run the CD0 mount file (mine is in "Storage/DosDrivers""} whenever
you really want to use the CD drive. It's got nothing to do with plug 'n play...
Title: Re: OS 3.9 crazy boot time????
Post by: Ancalimon on November 25, 2011, 03:15:35 PM
Quote from: Daedalus;669002
Edit: Just read the advert now - if the background picture has more colours than the Workbench has free pens then that'll add to the delay as well. And whatever about an 060, an 030 is going to take an age to scale any image.


Yes...

That's why we need a new accelerator for A1200 with a cheap 16 or 32mb 24-32bit rtg solution. Don't we?
Title: Re: OS 3.9 crazy boot time????
Post by: bbond007 on November 25, 2011, 04:07:22 PM
Quote from: FaLLeNOnE;668982
In that case he will need to use blizkick if his accelerator supports it. Have been using it for a long time. Great program


Yeah, I'm using BlizKick with modules for shapeshifter, hsmathlibs, noclick, bblank and my favorite, the A1000 jingle!

also, this program is pretty cool

http://aminet.net/package/util/boot/BootPicture

that way you can at least see a nice amiga logo instead of staring at nothing...

I just was counting like one-one-thousand, two-one-thousand (not very accurate) but from cold boot mine takes around 35 seconds and I have a FastATA and a 060...
Title: Re: OS 3.9 crazy boot time????
Post by: fitzsteve on November 25, 2011, 07:02:01 PM
The high colour .jpg image is going to be the issue here.  You can get nice results with even a 16 colour workbench.

Check out the awesome work in this post over at EAB:

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=51657

You don't have to strip right back either, you can play with 64/128 for example and still get great speeds.

There are other ways to get faster booting too like having a custom rom made up and getting rid of the reboot.

I suggest starting with a fresh workbench and building it up yourself, you could keep that old one as a backup and then you could build you own to your own spec.

If you want somewhere to start, check out the Classic Workbench packs as they are a great base to build on:

http://classicwb.abime.net/

All the best,

Steve.
Title: Re: OS 3.9 crazy boot time????
Post by: save2600 on November 26, 2011, 01:16:18 AM
Quote from: AmiDude;668994
Here's a tip for y'all: Don't mount CD0 at the startup-sequence...

Even when it's not invoked in Startup-Sequence, my system will still waste at least 32 seconds, diddling itself (the HD LED literally blinks 32 times) before it loads WB with this PlexWriter hooked up. I've tried every possible termination combo on the 2091 and the drive itself. Even upgraded to 7.0 ROMS on the SCSI card, but no change. What I do to help speed things up is keep a CD in the drawer. As soon as it spins up and gets a read, the computer proceeds to boot, shaving lots of time off the "normal" boot process.

Not trying to de-rail the thread, but thought *maybe* the OP was experiencing something similar - but yeah, seems like he's experiencing the super slow picture rendering times. Easy to do with OS3.9 and Alice and her AGA buddies, as they trick you into thinking they can handle even moderately sized .jpgs. Hell, even the dock likes to take its own sweet time loading.
Title: Re: OS 3.9 crazy boot time????
Post by: AmiDude on November 26, 2011, 09:05:05 AM
Quote from: save2600;669063
Even when it's not invoked in Startup-Sequence, my system will still waste at least 32 seconds, diddling itself (the HD LED literally blinks 32 times) before it loads WB with this PlexWriter hooked up. I've tried every possible termination combo on the 2091 and the drive itself. Even upgraded to 7.0 ROMS on the SCSI card, but no change. What I do to help speed things up is keep a CD in the drawer. As soon as it spins up and gets a read, the computer proceeds to boot, shaving lots of time off the "normal" boot process.


I don't have any experience with an 2091/PlexWriter combo, but maybe you should
move over to another SCSI controller and/or CD-player/writer if the system struggles
to recognize the PlexWriter..
I've succesfully mounted CD-writers to my A600/A1200 (PCMCIA CD1200 controller)
and A3000 (external SCSI CD-burner).
Title: Re: OS 3.9 crazy boot time????
Post by: save2600 on November 26, 2011, 02:36:47 PM
Quote from: AmiDude;669076
I don't have any experience with an 2091/PlexWriter combo, but maybe you should
move over to another SCSI controller and/or CD-player/writer if the system struggles
to recognize the PlexWriter..
System mounts the Plexwriter just fine and I use it all the time. Btw: I also tried it with a GVP HC+8 and it exhibited the same nonsensical 32second wait time, so it has to be the goofy nature of this particular drive. Years ago, I remember when I had an A4000 hooked to a SCSI Syquest 52mb removable magnetic drive deal, same exact thing.
Title: Re: OS 3.9 crazy boot time????
Post by: Thorham on November 26, 2011, 04:07:54 PM
Quote from: Daedalus;669002
an 030 is going to take an age to scale any image.
Not with optimized scaling routines. I have some experience with writing those in assembler, and you can actually scale pretty quickly in good quality on a 68030.