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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: Snoozy on November 09, 2011, 09:27:19 PM
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Hi ppl,
I have this card which i bought to fit to my 2nd a1200 (mobo 1d4) and despite flush fitting i get a yellow screen, which then turns black. If i count the blinks of the green power light there are 9 or 10.
I've checked all the usual suspects like keeping the card away from metal shielding when fitted and i've cleaned the contacts on both the mobo and the blizzard 1220. There are no jumpers fitted on the card and i see there are options A,B,C,D although C,D look blocked off. Do i need to fit a jumper over A or B?
Is there any thing else i am missing?
(I've been assured the card works ok and seen a screen with it working)
Argh! :cry:
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Hi - does the Amiga boot normally without the card, if it does then try the steps below.
Switch off and remove card then reseat it back in the trapdoor slot or look here for card & jumper settings http://www.amiga-hardware.com/ (Phase 5: Blizzard 1220/4) or maybe its bad memory on the card. The reason I say this is because I fried the memory chips on my A500 trapdoor expansion and blew the chip that controlled the disk drive & I had the same errors (dodgy wiring on a copy dongle).
Just try the first two options & good luck.
or this http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=58607 or this
http://boardreader.com/thread/A1200_yellow_screen_after_reset_1jo99X1409.html
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Hi thanks, but i'm already familiar with those other postings from my previous google search.
The 1200 powers up fine without the blizzard and i am using a 500 psu.
I'm guessing i am having either connectivity probs between the blizzard and the mobo, or there are ram probs on the blizzard. If i look at some of the trace tracks on the back of the blizzard there are a couple i can't convince myself look ok..
Is there any way to clean up the tracks on the back of a expansion board? alcohol wipes? :confused:
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Try taking out the ram and seeing if shows in the early startup menu both mouse buttons
also try another ram simm Id sugguest trying another mb but i think from exp
that just be black screen or grey on boot in that case
Hmm after reading that again pity you dont have another power brick wonder if
you disconted as much that drains power it whould boot up eg floppy hd etc
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Unfortunately the Blizzard 1220/4 has surface mounted DRAM chips instead of a SIMM socket so if the RAM is busted it can't be swapped over easily.
It's a shame, I hope you can work out what's wrong and get it working. Good luck.
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Hey, thanks for ur replies. Incidentally i am on kick 3.0 roms.
Does anybody else own this card and have found it tempermental on initial setup? :confused:
What is the best way of cleaning the contacts inside the card and ensuring the grippers are gripping on the mobo?
Is there a crystal somewhere on the card that i need to check is properly seated?
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I think i am having some success with getting this card to work via using a Jumper over option B of the card. :)
Is this something to do with running between 14mhz or 28mhz?
Would this make sense to ppl?
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A quick look at the Amiga Hardware (http://www.amiga-hardware.com/) site shows that jumper B is for switching between internal and external oscillators. That being the case, unless you have an external oscillator on the board (usually a square or rectangular shiny metal block with the frequency written on it) then it won't work with that setting.
The Amiga-Hardware website is a great resource, but it uses frames which make it tricky to link to information. Looking at the photo though, it appears there's an empty socket in the centre of the board for the crystal, just above and to the left of the clock battery. Does your board have this too?
(http://www.amiga-hardware.com/display_photos/blizz_1220.jpg)
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hi, yes it does have the empty socket but for some reason this board is only working if i have the jumper cover over B.
I can't explain this.
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But that makes sense when you think about it. With the cover over B it's using the motherboard clock to run the CPU, with the jumper open, it's trying to use the oscillator on the card - but there's none there, just an empty socket. With no oscillator clock signal the CPU simply cannot run, giving you the errors you're seeing. You could buy a crystal from an electronics supplier and use it, but I doubt it's worth your while...
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ahh ok thanks daedalus i understand this now...so if i'm using the jumper over B does this mean i'm only using the ram on the card and not the cpu on the card??
Would there be any benefit for me to get the crystal ie. using the blizzard cpu?? (is the crystal aka fpu??)
ah, i see jacks legacy (ebay) are selling them in germany for £8, i think i'll buy one - should make better use of the blizzard?
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pencil eraser works
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Can somebody tells me how this fpu fits in the socket on the pic above, when this chip
http://www.ebay.de/itm/68882-CoPro-PLCC-FPU-Commodore-Amiga-Blizzard-Atari-/220846013303?pt=Klassische_Computer&hash=item336b72bb77
has many legs and the socket on the blizzard has just 4 holes?
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Can somebody tells me how this fpu fits in the socket on the pic above, when this chip
http://www.ebay.de/itm/68882-CoPro-PLCC-FPU-Commodore-Amiga-Blizzard-Atari-/220846013303?pt=Klassische_Computer&hash=item336b72bb77
has many legs and the socket on the blizzard has just 4 holes?
The socket with the 4 holes is for fitting an oscillator for the FPU (for clocking the FPU at frequencies other than 14 or 28MHz). The socket above the oscillator is the FPU socket, and the PLCC FPU just slots into there (has many pins as you can see).
So for instance, the FPU you have linked to is rated at 25MHz, so you would use the jumper on the card to set the config to 28MHz. If you wanted to push the FPU a little faster, you would have to buy a 33MHz oscillator, fit it, and jumper the card to use the oscillator you have fitted instead.
Your card should work anyway, even without the oscillator and FPU, so it's not looking good from my perspective unfortunately.
Hopefully though you will. :)
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Hi yep got it, thanks for clearing that up paul.
So i look at my card i have an fpu m888.. 33, so i suppose that's 33mhz. If i can get hold of an oscillator it needs to be between 33-40mhz and it will have 4 legs to fit in that socket ? The crystal is within the oscillator? (does more crystals mean more time in the crystal dome :roflmao:)
I am asking jacks legacy to see if they can source me one, as all they have is 50mhz, i suppose my next option would be farnell?
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Hi yep got it, thanks for clearing that up paul.
So i look at my card i have an fpu m888.. 33, so i suppose that's 33mhz. If i can get hold of an oscillator it needs to be between 33-40mhz and it will have 4 legs to fit in that socket ? The crystal is within the oscillator? (does more crystals mean more time in the crystal dome :roflmao:)
I am asking jacks legacy to see if they can source me one, as all they have is 50mhz, i suppose my next option would be farnell?
Just checked and amigakit stock the oscillator you need:
http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=45&products_id=906 (http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=45&products_id=906)
The crystal and the oscillator are the same thing, I suppose the correct name for them is Crystal Oscillator, but people tend to call them one or the other. If you do buy an oscillator, make sure you fit it the correct way, because fitting it the wrong way could easily destroy your card and the oscillator. Same goes for the FPU.
But if you have an FPU installed already, it should still work despite their being no oscillator, PROVIDING you have the jumper set to the correct position (JUMPER D for 28MHz, or JUMPER C for 14MHz) (those frequencies are derived from the A1200 motherboard).
So set the jumper to the "D" position and see if it works. If it doesn't work, I would try removing the FPU and see if you can get the card working without it (it's not required anyway, and used in few applications).
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Hi paul, yep thanks I ordered an 8 dimm 33mhz crystal and socket from amigakit couple of days ago, when fitting the writing on the crystal needs to be upright? Is it plug and play or will it need soldering in?
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Just for clarity: Without the crystal, and with the jumper set to take the clock signal from the motherboard, the CPU should still work on the Blizzard. Fitting the crystal and using it instead will make the CPU (and FPU) run at the crystal's frequency instead. As Paul pointed out, be very careful of fitting it around the correct way. The FPU should only fit one way, but the oscillator can fit 4 ways, and only one is right. It should just plug into the socket though, you won't need to solder it.
Edit: The orientation should be marked on the board, you can't assume it's just upright. There will be one corner on the crystal that's different to the other 3 - sometimes it has a dot printed on the case, sometimes a different shape of the metal container on that corner. This corner should be marked on the board some way or another. If it's not, I would say that the marked corner goes with the notched corner of the socket (pin 1) which can be seen to the lower left of the socket in the photo further up in this thread. Hope that makes sense!
Also, just for pedantics, the crystal oscillator is actually a small circuit, containing the crystal itself and some other components needed to make a clean, square-wave clock signal.
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Hey thanks daedalus, so the oscillator is fitted into its 8 dimm socket that will come with it. Does it matter which way it is fitted in this socket?
And then this socket/crystal combo is critically orientated into the empty socket as shown above. And then the card is running at 33mhz (and with the add4 modulle) at pretty much its full potential?
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Sorry, I think there's still a little bit of confusion here... The oscillator/crystal combo is all-in-one, so you just have to get that module and put it in the socket on the board. There aren't any other sockets involved. It'll look something like this:
(http://www.sgfukang.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/crystal-oscillator-.jpg)
You can see the dot printed on the top at the bottom left corner - this is the "pin 1" which tells you what way around to put it. Just plug it into the socket on your board (the right way around!) and you're done. Sorry if I made things a bit more confusing there :)
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Hey thanks daedalus, so the oscillator is fitted into its 8 dimm socket that will come with it.
That's called DIL8; the longer ones are DIL14.
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Ok so what is the point of the 8 dil crystal sockets that amigakit sell?
Do you think the crystal upgrade is worthwhile?
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The sockets they sell are for adding to a board which doesn't already have one... Most accelerators use their own crystal oscillator instead of the motherboard one, and so have the crystal permanently soldered in place. If you have the skill and tools, you can desolder the crystal and solder one of those sockets in its place, thus allowing you to change crystals more easily. This means you can overclock your CPU simply by swapping out the crystal.
Your board is a little different, in that the crystal is optional, and therefore came with a socket from the factory instead. I don't know how much it's worth upgrading, but the crystals are relatively cheap so no harm in trying it out. To max out the RAM you need the custom memory add-on - I've never seen one and I'd imagine they're fairly rare (and therefore expensive). Unless you find you need it, I wouldn't worry about it. You could probably do just fine without it.
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ok thanks :),
so i'm waiting for the 33mhz crystal to arrive....
in the mean time these crystals are available:
http://www.amibay.com/showthread.php?t=19827
do you think i should get one of these 40mhz crystals as i think the blizzard 1220 can take upto 40mhz crystal oscillators.
Can you use a 40mhz crystal with a 33mhz fpu? Is this overclocking?
(incidentally i managed to track down the add4 for £29 last week so will fit that when it arrives - probably knocking out my pcmcia at the same time, ah well)
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ok thanks :),
so i'm waiting for the 33mhz crystal to arrive....
in the mean time these crystals are available:
http://www.amibay.com/showthread.php?t=19827
do you think i should get one of these 40mhz crystals as i think the blizzard 1220 can take upto 40mhz crystal oscillators.
Can you use a 40mhz crystal with a 33mhz fpu? Is this overclocking?
(incidentally i managed to track down the add4 for £29 last week so will fit that when it arrives - probably knocking out my pcmcia at the same time, ah well)
Surely the oscillator if fitted is just for use by the FPU and not the CPU? That's how it works on standard ram expansion cards with FPU's. In that case all you would be doing is overclocking the FPU, so once you fit your 33MHz oscillator the FPU will be clocked at 33MHz whilst the CPU always remains at 28MHz.
Yes, 40MHz would also work for the FPU, but nothing higher. I couldn't find a 40MHz oscillator anywhere so that's why I directed you to the 33MHz one.
Please do make sure that you fit the oscillator correctly though or you are likely to see blue smoke. Also make sure that you set the jumper correctly so that the FPU will use your new oscillator.
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Yeah, it'll most likely make the PCMCIA unusable alright, but no harm to have for that price really - it's not as expensive as I thought it'd be. Yes, using a faster crystal than that which the chip is designed for is overclocking. Be careful with that, too much overclocking can shorten the lifespan of the chips or result in an unstable computer. Since the CPU on that board is rated for 28MHz, I'd imagine 33 would be fine, but 40MHz is probably pushing it a bit. By all means give it a try, chances are you wouldn't do any permanent damage with a short test, but be aware of the risks and keep an eye on the chips to make sure they don't get too hot.
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Surely the oscillator if fitted is just for use by the FPU and not the CPU? That's how it works on standard ram expansion cards with FPU's. In that case all you would be doing is overclocking the FPU, so once you fit your 33MHz oscillator the FPU will be clocked at 33MHz whilst the CPU always remains at 28MHz.
But then why won't the card run when there's no oscillator installed? If the CPU ran off the motherboard clock then surely it wouldn't matter which way the FPU was set when there's no FPU installed? The memory's gonna run off the CPU's clock anyway - it doesn't need it's own clock...
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Thank you Daedalus and Paul1981 for your help, blue smoke and burnt chips are best left in the mistakes of the kitchen :)
So i will keep with the 33mhz, if it goes wrong and i get blue smoke i may record it on my digi-cam and place it on youtube as i'm sure it would give some of you ppl a laugh :roflmao:
I will don my surgeons mask and attempt the transplant of the oscillator later in the week :)
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But then why won't the card run when there's no oscillator installed? If the CPU ran off the motherboard clock then surely it wouldn't matter which way the FPU was set when there's no FPU installed? The memory's gonna run off the CPU's clock anyway - it doesn't need it's own clock...
Absolutely, I'm still not entirely sure whether Snoozy got the card working without the jumpers and FPU and oscillator, he mentioned it earlier in the thread but was very vague about it. But yes, the card should work without those parts regardless.
As for the oscillator, I've found the instruction manual for the 1220/4:
http://phase5.a1k.org/filearchive/blizzard1220_4_de_en.pdf (http://phase5.a1k.org/filearchive/blizzard1220_4_de_en.pdf)
I've found the relevant section and quoted from the manual:
"The coprocessor can either be operated with a 14 or 28 MHz clock rate or up to 40 MHz if you use an additional oscillator. If you want to operate a coprocessor with 14 or 28 MHz then either the 14M or 28M jumper must be set (see Diagram 4).
If you want to operate a coprocessor with an asynchronous clock you must also fit a suitable quartz oscillator in a DIL-8 housing in the empty socket below the coprocessor (sec Diagrams 3 and 4). The marking on pin 1 of the oscillator must be in the bottom left comer. The EXTCLK jumper must also be set.
ATTENTION!
Only one of the jumpers 14M, 28M or EXTCLK may be set at anyone time! If two of these jumpers are set simultaneously this will cause damage to the hardware. Never set two of these three jumpers at the same time!"
So the oscillator socket is definitely for the FPU alone. You can overclock the FPU on this card but not the CPU.
Hope this clears things up Snoozy. :)
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So I do need the 8 dil housing after all :roflmao: So does it matter which way the crystal is placed in the 8 dil socket?
The 1220 (without crystal but with fpu) will not work on my 1200 unless i have the jumper cover over B. Jumpers C and D i can't really get to as they look semi-blocked off?!
So i am thinking when i install the crystal oscillator i will leave jumpers A and B open (or jumper cover over A?) and the card should work with fpu at 33mhz and cpu 28mhz, i don't think i can change jumpers C and D, if you look at the photo earlier in the thread are jumpers C and D also look partially blocked off?
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Argh - how many times can people say the same things in different ways?
You do not need a 8 pin socket, you already have a socket soldered to the board.
YES - as people keep telling you, the crystal MUST be fitted with the correct orientation.
This is assuming you have the FPU fitted (or have bought one to fit).
Also, as others have said several times - the card should work without the FPU/crystal providing the jumpers are set correctly.
Your statement "C and D also look partially blocked off" concerns me as it sounds as if both of these are already jumpered?
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hmmm TCMSLP, i don't think you've brought anything to the table with that comment :(
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It might be time to give up and move on to WinUAE!
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Apart from its use in formatting and setting up CFs, i'm not really a fan of winuae especially with the advent of WHDload over the last few years..
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So I do need the 8 dil housing after all :roflmao: So does it matter which way the crystal is placed in the 8 dil socket?
The 1220 (without crystal but with fpu) will not work on my 1200 unless i have the jumper cover over B. Jumpers C and D i can't really get to as they look semi-blocked off?!
So i am thinking when i install the crystal oscillator i will leave jumpers A and B open (or jumper cover over A?) and the card should work with fpu at 33mhz and cpu 28mhz, i don't think i can change jumpers C and D, if you look at the photo earlier in the thread are jumpers C and D also look partially blocked off?
If you read the manual for the 1220/4 they don't label the jumpers anything at all, they're not labelled ABCD, they're just labelled as to their function. Look at page 5 of the manual, you need the EXTCLK jumper connected only, no others...it's simple to see which connection you need to bridge with the jumper.
To make things simple, lets look at the photo from earlier in the thread, and label them ABCD from left to right...
What you need to do is install the oscillator correctly as per the instruction guide, make sure the FPU is seated correctly, and then use ONE SINGLE jumper in position C (next to the one that's partially blocked...the 3rd from the left if looking at the picture of the card). All jumpers do is to connect pins together...they make a circuit.
Let's clarify a bit more...
Regarding jumpers, if you look at the picture from earlier in the thread of your card, you will see that there are 2 rows of 4 pins (ABCD).
You should have 2 jumpers with your card. The one that you say is "partially blocked" is the one on the right side (D)...well because it's only over the top pin and not the one below it as well then it is not actually doing anything - it is not making the circuit, it is not making the connection between the top right pin (D) and the bottom right pin (D)...so therefore it's OPEN, ie the jumper might as well not be there. Infact this jumper is the DISABLE jumper and if you bridge that connection then it will turn off your card (as if the card wasn't plugged in at all)...and there's little point to that so either remove that right had jumper or just leave it over the one pin as per the picture (which is the same really as removing it).
Right, there should be another jumper. This needs to be in position C (vertical orientation) so third from the left connecting the top and bottom rows together in column C. That's it.
If you're still unsure Snoozy, before power on maybe you could take a photo of your card for us so that we can check that everything is okay before you power on. I wouldn't like to see the card damaged if it can be helped. :)
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Hi, Paul1981, thanks for that, you're right what i thought was partially blocked off, it was half covered with a jumper, so i took that off and now C is the only one with jumper cover over (Its actually labelled ABCD on the card)
So the only thing that was confusing me was the 8 dil socket, the way i read the instructions is that an 8 dil socket is used aswell as the oscillator and the 8dil socket/crystal combo is inserted into the empty socket of the 1220 with the notches in alignment. Daedalus had said that the 8 dil socket wasn't used :confused:
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So the only thing that was confusing me was the 8 dil socket, the way i read the instructions is that an 8 dil socket is used aswell as the oscillator and the 8dil socket/crystal combo is inserted into the empty socket of the 1220 with the notches in alignment. Daedalus had said that the 8 dil socket wasn't used :confused:
The socket is used for clocking the FPU (not CPU) at a frequency other that 14 or 28 MHz. You only need to put an oscillator into the socket if you want to use other (higher) frequencies than 14 or 28 MHz for the FPU (not CPU). You have an MC68882FN33A FPU I believe, and because it's rated at 33 MHz then quite rightly you have purchased a 33MHz oscillator and yes you should use it and jumper the card accordingly to make use of your oscillator (single jumper in position C only).
I wouldn't bother overclocking the FPU because the speed increase will not be that great, the performance will still be poor when compared to the FPU built into an 040 or 060 processor, so it's not really worth buying a faster oscillator. If you do though I wouldn't go above 40 MHz, it's just not worth damaging the FPU. Saying that though, a 33MHz rated FPU will happily run at 40MHz without problems, but it's a negligable speed increase, and of course only for applications which make use of an FPU.
Have you got the card working then?
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I believe your board already had the 8 pin (DIL) socket. If your board did not have this socket, you could solder one in to allow easy replacement of the crystal. As your board already has this, you can simply insert the crystal.
Sorry, I wasn't trying to be sarcastic before - but it seems most of the answers you're looking for have already been stated several times.
Did you ever find out if the card worked as it is - without the FPU/jumpers? The CPU and RAM should work regardless of jumper settings unless the card is faulty ... ?
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hi, but does the crystal oscillator insert directly into the 1220 empty socket OR do i insert the crystal oscillator into an 8 dil socket and then insert this 8dil socket/crystal combo into the empty 1220 socket??
ah just seen your reply aswell TCMSLP, so you also believe the 8 dil socket is not needed, so why does it mention using an 8 dil socket inserted into the empty socket in the instructions that Paul1981 linked to..
(Yep the card works fine at the moment with a jumper over B)
Edit: OK fitted crystal without extra 8 dil socket on consensus of opinion here and looks to be working well, let me see, sys info:
cpu: 68EC020 31.6mhz
fpu: 68882
comment: cowabunga
!!!
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hi, but does the crystal oscillator insert directly into the 1220 empty socket OR do i insert the crystal oscillator into an 8 dil socket and then insert this 8dil socket/crystal combo into the empty 1220 socket??
ah just seen your reply aswell TCMSLP, so you also believe the 8 dil socket is not needed, so why does it mention using an 8 dil socket inserted into the empty socket in the instructions that Paul1981 linked to..
(Yep the card works fine at the moment with a jumper over B)
Edit: OK fitted crystal without extra 8 dil socket on consensus of opinion here and looks to be working well, let me see, sys info:
cpu: 68EC020 31.6mhz
fpu: 68882
comment: cowabunga
!!!
If you look at the speed comparison chart in sysinfo, you should be approximately twice the speed of an A2500(14MHz 68020).
You can fit the 8 PIN DIL oscillator into the 8 PIN DIL socket into the 8 PIN DIL socket already on the board if you like, but the only benefit would be that the trapdoor cover probably won't fit on any more. :)
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Good to hear you finally have this working :)
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Hi, yeah thanks for u 3 guys help, I think I was being overly cautious as I didn't want the blue smoke !