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Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: Digiman on November 06, 2011, 11:11:22 PM
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OK so I have these dead tanks (A2000s) and well the motherboards are just not appearing in any decent price level (might aswell just get another A2000) but that's another sticky topic for a different day.
So my plan is X86 inside A2000 chassis and somehow modify the old tank mouse and get the original A2000 keyboards hooked up. And now we come to the tough part, what do I run on the PC X86 motherboards.
One my work machine I have WinUAE and Workbench 3.1 which is fine I guess and atleast I know the serious side of things.
Please can somebody impartially tell me which is the more pleasant experience (after installation that is) and best solution.
1. WinXP + WinUAE + OS 3.9?
2. Amithlon + UAE + OS 3.9
3. AROS + UAE
The machine MUST play OCS and AGA games flawlessly otherwise it's a complete waste of time, at the same time I want to do things people do on OS 3.9 on a real A4000 + 24bit graphics card + 16bit sound card. I would like to do some rendering in VistaPro and be able to do basic internet related stuff. Two things I WON'T like.....
1. not having real joystick ports (I can get a Competition Pro USB I guess for WinUAE setup but can I use such a thing with Amithlon or AROS???)
2. not being able to actually use any of my 100s of original games on the machines anymore (no cure for this)
Also using WinXP is not my ideal choice because I will puke seeing that stinking MS/Windows logo even for a second sitting infront of an A2000 real Amiga's carcass :( Ideally would like to NEVER see a single hint that Microsoft rubbish is underlying this system from the moment I power it on to the moment I switch it off.
So anyone want to tell me about their experiences from both sides of the coin and offer some helpful advice?
(no I do not want OS4 or MorphOS and I don't feel like taking out a second mortgage to build a PPC A4000 machine before anyone suggests it)
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AROS + UAE is not a friendly path to travel as of yet.
Amithlon would be my first vote though you may have to tinker for a while until you learn to understand how to set up your hardware. It ain't hard, but at first it seems like it.
My second vote would be for the WinUAE machine using MircorXP, but again you are going to be held back not only by Windows, but also by WinUAE's short comings, like OctaMED S.S. not working as it should, where as you can just run OctaMED S.S. native in Amithlon.
I feel ya, my 2000 mobo is dead, I tried to find someone to fix it for me, but no one was willing, so I tried my self, but to no avail. Pisses me off. :/
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calling me "impartial" would be hard, however: I never used amithlon but AFAIK it might be difficult to find a proper kernel to support all moden hoardware out there, but here others (like Fishy_fis) might be better suited to make suggestions and give hints. For what it concerns user experience, however, it should be the nearest thing to a "steroid-powered" Amiga computer running OS 3.9. You'd be stuck to 68k emulation however.
I'd tell you to try Icaros Desktop coupled with Amiga Forever. You can buy the value edition (the most cheap one) of the latter, while the former is free, and look if it fits your needs. Icaros automates the phase of setting up the emulation environment for UAE and makes integration easy, and once you've installed Amiga Forever you have just to choose wether to run 68K emulation at startup or not. The good thing about AROS is that you can also run AROS games and applications along with classic ones.
Any choice you make, just pay attention to supported hardware. AROS runs very well on any modern processor, but support for peripherals, network and sound may vary. If you have room in the A2000 case for a pci-express video card, choose a Nvidia one, possibly GeForce 6, 7, 8 or 9.
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I second that, I do ever so much admire the simplicity of setting up UAE on AROS. That part is very well fleshed out. It's just UAE itself that I find too many faults with to find useable at the time being.
calling me "impartial" would be hard, however: I never used amithlon but AFAIK it might be difficult to find a proper kernel to support all moden hoardware out there, but here others (like Fishy_fis) might be better suited to make suggestions and give hints. For what it concerns user experience, however, it should be the nearest thing to a "steroid-powered" Amiga computer running OS 3.9. You'd be stuck to 68k emulation however.
I'd tell you to try Icaros Desktop coupled with Amiga Forever. You can buy the value edition (the most cheap one) of the latter, while the former is free, and look if it fits your needs. Icaros automates the phase of setting up the emulation environment for UAE and makes integration easy, and once you've installed Amiga Forever you have just to choose wether to run 68K emulation at startup or not. The good thing about AROS is that you can also run AROS games and applications along with classic ones.
Any choice you make, just pay attention to supported hardware. AROS runs very well on any modern processor, but support for peripherals, network and sound may vary. If you have room in the A2000 case for a pci-express video card, choose a Nvidia one, possibly GeForce 6, 7, 8 or 9.
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I personally use AROS, but if you just want a 68k Amiga machine... Then I would put some variant of Windows (whatever you can get for free) on there then set it up to auto boot directly into WinUAE.
Then at a later date, when you want something more, move your setup to AROS :)
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Ive spent several years switching back and forward between different setups and systems trying to find the best high speed 68k/os3.x amiga setup, so this is a subject Im pretty well versed in.
To be completely honest though for every pro about one options there's usually a con or 2 as well, but for me amithlon has been what I end up going back to.
It depends on what youre wanting to do though. Do you favor apps and/or newer games, plus like to play some older games, or do you favor older games and use a few apps and/or newer games?
General rule of thumb is, do you want a retro "amiga" that can do newer things ok, or do you want a more modern amiga that can do the retro side ok? Amithlon +UAE will never be as fast and/or accurate as something like WInuae for custom chipset software, but give it enough grunt and its enough for all but the heaviest aga demos (ocs/ecs emulation is considerably quicker). UAE itself plays a bit of a part in this, and that's being updated (with cosnsiderable speed ups) for amithlon natve as we speak.
As suggested something like MicroXP can be a decent host for a dedicated emulated 68k box and does increase the supported hardware base over amithlon somewhat, but amithlons supported hardware isnt nearly as limited as its reputation. Ive tried on many, many computers over the years, and have never once found a system I couldnt get it working on. Things like sound, network, and gfx need to be given some thought thought, but that's pretty normal for alternative type systems, and is true for aros/mos/os4 as well.
As for ease of use, I guess Winuae has some advantages here. With amithlon youre completely at the mercy of AmigaOS and functionality needs to be found there. WinUAE will suppliment some of this through the host (usb, tcp/ip,p96,ahi,etc,etc.). Whether or not this is a good thing or not is down to the user, but personally I prefer it through the amiga os side as I both like to know my system inside out, and I prefer the extra flexibility it provides (try creating a 256x192 p96 screenmode (or any custom screenmode) in Winuae for example (you cant)).
AROS thus far is probably not the best option is 68k is a priority, which is a shame as it has great potential, its just not quite there yet unfortunately. Perfromance is a mixed bag,.... raw uae cpu performance is second to none for an amiga derived system (both because the hardware its runnig on, and as it has jit cpu emulation), but in practice it can be inconsistant. As often as not onscreen performance is inferior to amithlon on the same machine (and amithlon is emulating a 68k cpu and then emulating an amiga (including cpu again)). Given some time I suspect it will mature firther, but for a person who favors 68k Id wait before using AROS as a host (which is a shame really).
As for joystick support for amithlon support, this can be done a few ways. Poseidon, catweasel mk3, gameport (for supported sound cards) or if youre lucky you might find a ps2 or at joypad (as in a joypad that works of those connections, no playstation2). Theyre not common, but do exist (I use one). Typically a person plugs this straight into the mobo, and then plugs the keyboard into that (thats how mine works at least).
Id be lying if I said the game port option wasnt a pain to set up, but it can work. Poseidon Id expect would require a supported external pci card.
In short, Id suggest amithlon, but expect to alternate between loving it and hating it for a while until you get things working nicely :)
Im going to make a video of my amithlon box running all sorts of bits and pieces soon as I dont think there's a single video out there showing just how capable it is.
This isnt just a testament to amithlon's longevity, but to OS3.x itself. Given the grunt and some optimising/customising, and it stands up to the newer, younger systems nicely, only with 1000's of times as much software :)
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Everyone has their own preferences I suppose. The good side of x86 is that you indeed have at least 3 options, maybe more.
I have tried all 3, and found for my amiga needs a winuae setup with windows shell removed (booting straight to amiga os3.x the best option for me.
Why? Easy first of all. Just setup windows xp, install winuae (or amiga forever)and replace the shell with winuae instead of windows explorer. You can remove (or better yet replace) the windows xp splash screens and so on. When my machine boots, I get a black screen, then I get this graphic as splash screen :
http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&hl=en&gbv=2&biw=1440&bih=809&tbm=isch&tbnid=9pKjPg9BqR3y8M:&imgrefurl=http://world-of-games.co.uk/Vintage%2520Computer/album/amiga_wallpaper_pack_by_zanagb-d365tso_png_orig.html&docid=gdvrmnmBu5CpUM&imgurl=http://world-of-games.co.uk/Vintage%252520Computer/album/amiga_wallpaper_pack_by_zanagb-d365tso.png&w=1440&h=900&ei=Xma3TrSWI4K62gWn9MDMDQ&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=431&sig=103593600349293501448&page=1&tbnh=143&tbnw=185&start=0&ndsp=24&ved=1t:429,r:3,s:0&tx=127&ty=58
(You can make your splash screen any amiga graphic you wish)
If networking, sound and graphics work good in xp they will all work fine in winuae. This means choice of video/network/sound cards are not as critical as with amithlon or aros. So long as you've got windows drivers, everything will work in winuae.
Second, environment I suppose. I can click on demos, they start. Any amiga 68k software in fact, just works. I have 4,000+ whdload games installed, and all of them work fine. I have tons of original amiga applications, graphics, sound, whatever, and it all just works.
For joystick yes you can use a competition pro, or just about ANY USB joystick) I'm using one of these with the buttons remapped : http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-NES-Retro-PC-USB-Controller-/290627602707?pt=Video_Games_Accessories&hash=item43aac14913#ht_1982wt_905
I also have a competition pro that works fine right out of the box with winuae and no tweaks required. I just think they are stiff and not a joy to use.
I haven't used aros much in recent years. I recently installed a new system and was horrified to see whats been done with winuae. It used to just work. but was not very "integrated" Now it seems to be a buggy mess in the latest version. I find it so bad its barely usable. (screen redraw problems crashing) At least that was my experience. Since using amiga 68k apps and games especially is a high priority for me, AROS would not be my choice anymore. If they fixed the uae so it works properly again and get a better browser I'd switch again I think... Browsing is not much better than winuae but faster at least. Amithlon I can't say I have to install it and see now that I've fixed my hardware problems, but I think its a big effort to install and then you have to deal with alot of mods to run software which uses custom chipset (Most games and many apps)
Steven
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WinUAE + Windows XP... or 7. Both work really well with Windows 7 edging it out further on newer hardware.
As has been mentioned before you can edit it so Windows "isn't there".
Can change the shell to WinUAE
Can with a few registry hacks disable alt-tab/task manager/windows keys/turn off welcome screen/change wallpaper for logoff and logon.
Can switch off the F12 key in WinUAE
Can change the windows mouse cursors to AmigaOS 3.9 ones, and with a registry hack do the same for the welcome and logoff cursor.
Many many more hacks :-) Have tweaked my setup to the point that you can't exit WinUAE and you can't see windows (apart from the case ;-))
Have two comp pro's plugged in, work straight out of the box. Will be purchasing at some point Amiga to USB adapter so I can use some of my other classic joysticks :-)
Have some issues with WHDload, a couple of games still don't function as they should and for some odd reason some games report that my WHDload isn't registered (Damn Civ!!) even though it is.
Going to try Octamed next. :-)
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Using Windows as a host you can eliminate a lot of the host from the user, but if a person was pedantic there still are signs of it no matter what you do. Having to use uaegfx for screenmodes that are created by windows for example. The only way to create a custom p96 screenmode when using Winuae is to make a custom screenmode through Windows, which is then available to Winuae/AmigaOS through uaegfx. Also when Winuae crashes (great bit of software, but it does crash a little more often than Id like) youre left with a blank screen if youve replaced explorer with winuae. Any additional hardware manipulation needs to be done through windows, youre at the mercy of Windows viruses, system slowdowns over time, and so on.
To be fair I am mentioning worst case scenarios, and the illusion can be quite nice, but you're always at the mercy of windows to some degree or another. It all comes down to the user as to whether theyre pedantic enough for that to bother them.
Ultimately though Id advise a decision based on whether custom chipset performance or rtg/cpu performance is more important to you. Both can do both ok, but amithlon is better for things like movies, running emulators (why I like being able to make custom p96 screenmodes), system friendly games/apps, 3d rendering,etc.) and Winuae+Windows is better for things like custom chipset games, scene demos and games that use warp3d.
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My second vote would be for the WinUAE machine using MircorXP, but again you are going to be held back not only by Windows, but also by WinUAE's short comings, like OctaMED S.S. not working as it should, where as you can just run OctaMED S.S. native in Amithlon.
What's the problem with OctaMED SS and WinUAE? I've used it in WinUAE just fine. As far as latency issues, have you tried using the ASIO or WASAPI audio drivers within WinUAE to eliminate latency?
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I'm guessing he wants PPC levels of speed for running system friendly non games apps using Amithlon or AROS and well I'm sure your average 2 or 3ghz x86 PC can emulate even AGA smoother than MOS or AOS on 1ghz PPC hardware.
So the question is after going through the nightmare of installing Amithlon and OS3.9 or AROS which is better for a PPC level of speed running stuff like Word Processors or web browsers? And which is actually more compatible with Amiga RTG type business/creative apps.
OS3.9 ontop of Amithlon or AROS?
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For system friendly 68k software Amithlon is unparalleled in terms of speed. The heavier the load the more it distances itself from any form of uae. Raw 68k speed on my amithlon box is about 1.5x that of a sam460 running ppc code judging by benchmarks Ive seen online. AROS relies on UAE for 68k software, and does an ok job, but it's about 1/3rd to1/2 the speed of amithlon in a best case scenario. Amithlon can also run native big endian x86 os3.x code for even more speed (rarely used, but can make a big difference), but AROS obviously can run "normal" x86 AROS apps as well which often makes the need for huge 68k performance not so important (native movie players, browser, emulators and so on).
From that perspective I guess AROS could be a consideration to the original poster as well. It all come down to what a person finds important I guess..
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A big thank you to everyone for their comments.
I have a few machines with WinUAE, which serve my classic Amiga needs 100% but this is for a replacement to other next gen Amiga options specifically. The fastest real Amiga I ever owned was a 4000/030 anyway.
OS 3.9 on x86 is my only option but am unsure of going AROS or Amithlon, but understand I need to pick hardware components carefully, no problem.
What I don't understand is things like.....
Can I run Wipeout 2097 on AROS/Amithlon +OS 3.9?
Can I use a USB Competition Pro joystick?
What can MorphOS/OS4 do that AROS/Amithlon + OS 3.9 do?
How fast will it run serious apps on an AMD XP3000+ CPU etc without UAE?
3D games ie Blizzard Vision compatible graphics card support for Wipeout/Quake?
USB or PS/2 keyboard and mouse required?
A2000 5 pin keyboard + PS2 adaptor will work?
AHI and RTG graphics setup 100% implemented like MOS/OS4 to avoid use of UAE?
Setting it up will be a nightmare for sure but only needs to be done once luckily. XP+WinUAE is a last resort if all else fails for this project as it's too slow for non classic OS friendly apps compared to other options.
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I would suggest to try AEROS but you would need to wait a bit (december).
The future setup on AresOne will be as follows (in Grub)
1. AEROS
2. AROS (distro of your choice)
3. AmigaOS 3.x (minimum 3.1 upto 3.9)
AEROS and AmigaOS3.9 entry will share Amiga Partitions. So whatever you setup in Boot Option 3 will be available in AEROS and vice versa.
EDIT:
3D is possible with http://thellier.free.fr/Wazp3D.htm
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Also when Winuae crashes (great bit of software, but it does crash a little more often than Id like) youre left with a blank screen if youve replaced explorer with winuae. Any additional hardware manipulation needs to be done through windows, youre at the mercy of Windows viruses, system slowdowns over time, and so on.
If you havent disabled task manager via ctrl-alt-del then you can start explorer or WinUAE in a couple of seconds. Although it's just like any machine even an Amiga crashing just restart :-)
Viruii issues on Windows box is easy to manage, MS security essentials is fantastic. Although the chance you will get a virus on a Windows turned to Amiga box for gaming is very low as most viruii are via the web these days so if you are browsing inside WinUAE it becomes a moot issue.
Not too sure about the graphics modes, I'm very happy playing my games at 1440x900 full screen. The scaling is bang on, better than my old 80's Spring CRT monitor and actually fills the screen nicely. Workbench looks great too, now being able to use 1440x900 wallpaper :-)
OctaMed... tried it, can't find any flaws in it, even using protracker works well :-)
Almost at the point were I'll sell my Amiga collection TBH, I'm getting a better more enjoyable experience out of my WinUAE setup.
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Wipeout2097 amiga vesion is ppc only. You can howver play the playstation version on os3.x with FPSE.
Joypad should work if you have usb hardware supported by poseidon. Additionally you can use a catweasel and use 9pin amiga joysticks/joypads.
As for what OS4.x and MOS do that amithlon/winuae+os3.9 cant, to be honest, not a lot. The main difference is mos/os4.x do more "out-of-the-box" whereas os3.9 needs the user to make lots of modifications. Given similar hardware resources all 3 are similarly capable. The main exception that stands out is web browsing is a a better experience on OS4,aros, and espeically mos.
As for how fast it'll be on an athlonxp 3000+, pretty darn fast. For 68k speed it should give something along the lines of a 1ghz g4 using ppc code. You should be able to run dvd-ish quality movies, but no higher. Faster again when using amithlon native x86 code, but that's more theoretical as so far there's very few amithlon native apps.
As for warp3d/open gl, unfortunately there's only software rendering availbable for amithlon via wazp3d (technically not true, but for conversations sake t may as well be). Its quite fast for a cpu renderer, but obviously nowhere near as fast as 3d gfx card rendered. In quake 1 on my amithlon box I get about 190fps in 640x480 with normal cpu renderer and it drops back to about 50 using wazp3d with all effects enabled @ 640x480 (filtering, fog, mipmapping, antialiasing, etc.). Payback runs fine at 1600x1200 in normal software rendering normally, but I have to drop it back to 720x576 using wazp3d (still looks nicer using wazp3d though with effects enabled).
As for usb/ps2, personally I use usb mouse and keyboard, but I had to enable legacy support in bios as otherwise it'll rely on amiga os usb stack. It's also completely p96 and ahi based. 98% of system friendly apps work fine out of the box.
I think people underestimate just how much software is, or can be system friendly on the amiga too. Stuff like Genetic Species, Flyin' High, Racer, SimCity 2000, can be played without UAE, not to mention the more typically mention things like Trapped, Trapped2, Gloom series, ScummVM, NemacIV, Napalm, Earth2140, Racer, doom, heretic, hexen, seuck (this was a surpise to me atually), Dynamite, mame, snes9x, dgen, quake, quake2, payback, descent1/2, descent freespace, Foundation, Exodus, Shadow Of A Third Moon, Onescapee, Virtual GP, Tales From Heaven, Nightlong and so on and so forth. There's a heck of a lot of system friendly stuff out there that doesnt require UAE. More apps then games, but still a lot of games too.
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@Lurch
Nah, that's not true. Browsing with an amiga browser inside winuae still exposes the host to any potential viruses you find there, double so if youre using bsdsocket.lib emulation. Just cos you dont see it doesnt mean it's not doing harm to the host.
The point was though that you cant escape the host OS using Winuae, something you yourself just supported (task manager, MS security essentials, impossible to generate custom p96 modes without Windows, etc.).
Im not saying its a bad experience, I too have had systems setup like youve mentioned.
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Browsing with an amiga browser inside winuae still exposes the host to any potential viruses you find there
You'd still be much safer than MacOS.
Just because it's possible in theory to pick up a virus through all those layers of abstraction, it would be very complex and little chance of any return on your investment.
It's about time winuae emulated a powerup card.
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I would suggest to try AEROS but you would need to wait a bit (december).
The future setup on AresOne will be as follows (in Grub)
1. AEROS
2. AROS (distro of your choice)
3. AmigaOS 3.x (minimum 3.1 upto 3.9)
AEROS and AmigaOS3.9 entry will share Amiga Partitions. So whatever you setup in Boot Option 3 will be available in AEROS and vice versa.
EDIT:
3D is possible with http://thellier.free.fr/Wazp3D.htm
But is Amithlon faster or natively more compatible than Aeros+AROS for OS 3.x apps? (ie without any UAE being used) I'm not a fan of Linux apps btw :)
I am thinking Athlon XP3900+ CPU now. I even have such a motherboard for testing, just need some spare disk drives.
Remember I do everyday stuff on Wintel machines, just tools for the job.
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All this talk reminds me of how much I hope that the Natami and FPGA see the light of day! :)
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Amithlon + OS3.9 is much, much faster than AEROS +68k apps could ever be. Completely different league (especially seeing as AEROS just uses UAE for 68k).
Contrary to how it may sound Im not trying to convince the OP to use Amithlon, Im simply elaborating on the options. For all its additional speed ad other pros there are situations where I might recommend Winuae still. Bu Id personally Id use amithlon vs winuae any day of the week if its for a "serious" machine. For a more casual system, or for someone who predominantely plays custom chipset games Id suggest the Winuae route. For anyone with more of an interst in other things Id recommend Amithlon.
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Let's not write off the a modded Classic XBOX or Modded 360 for the casual Amiga gamers either! I hate Microsoft (for which reason all my XBOX's were used or free and all games pirated except the one I use to hack them), but I have to say that XPort did wonders when he began to port over to many great emulators to the system. It's like a Video Game Jukebox!
And from what I've heard, the 360 incarnation of UAE is absolutely amazing, though I've not hacked any of my 360's yet to see for my self. In fact I've never anything besides plug them in and made sure they at least booted. :)
But ya, you are right, Amithlon is an easter egg waiting to be found. It may be a struggle, but once you got it worked out, you are in seventh heaven for the most part, though I do with it could have kept alive long enough for it's second incarnation to have become manifest.
I wish there was a way for someone to pick up that torch. :(
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All this talk reminds me of how much I hope that the Natami and FPGA see the light of day! :)
They are not really going to help achieve my aim of a super fast OS 3.9 box bang/$ though so not suitable for this project. That's not to say I'm not looking forward to their release.
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Amithlon + OS3.9 is much, much faster than AEROS +68k apps could ever be. Completely different league (especially seeing as AEROS just uses UAE for 68k).
Contrary to how it may sound Im not trying to convince the OP to use Amithlon, Im simply elaborating on the options. For all its additional speed ad other pros there are situations where I might recommend Winuae still. Bu Id personally Id use amithlon vs winuae any day of the week if its for a "serious" machine. For a more casual system, or for someone who predominantely plays custom chipset games Id suggest the Winuae route. For anyone with more of an interst in other things Id recommend Amithlon.
I can always dual boot to XP+WinUAE, but Amithlon has to go on first.
The horrors of installing a fully functioning Amithlon setup await me :)
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@Fishy_fiz
How much faster is Amithlon compared to WinUAE / PUAE(Linux) using JIT?
I don't own Amithlon and had no chance to try it somewhere.
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I think Amikit with OS_3.5 on a Windows machine is not a bad experience.
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@Fishy_fiz
How much faster is Amithlon compared to WinUAE / PUAE(Linux) using JIT?
I don't own Amithlon and had no chance to try it somewhere.
IMHO, if you're running 68k software the speed difference is negligible on current hardware.
Is it 1000x faster or only 950x? Hard for a human to tell.
I can build a faster UAE system than I can Amithlon though, Amithlon has too many hardware limitations. UAE runs on anything you can buy.
The real advantage comes with mixed 68k/x86 software which is rare and IMHO, not good for the community unless the OS is moving to x86, which it's not.
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IMHO, if you're running 68k software the speed difference is negligible on current hardware.
Is it 1000x faster or only 950x? Hard for a human to tell.
I can build a faster UAE system than I can Amithlon though, Amithlon has too many hardware limitations. UAE runs on anything you can buy.
The real advantage comes with mixed 68k/x86 software which is rare and IMHO, not good for the community unless the OS is moving to x86, which it's not.
But system friendly RTGd app like something like 3D rendering app in OS 3.9 but not requiring UAE to execute it is faster on Amithlon no?
I am buying the hardware from ebay anyway.
Soundblaster 128 PCI, Realtek 8139 PCI yes?
Graphics card...which is best?
One more question, right now I am transcoding 21 VIC20 videos AVI==>FLV and set task priority to lowest and watching Terra Nova on movie player with priority set to high and XP isn't doing a good job as video playback is jerky!!!! Does OS 3.9 suffer like this or does it have true responsive preemptive multitasking ?? :)
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But system friendly RTGd app like something like 3D rendering app in OS 3.9 but not requiring UAE to execute it is faster on Amithlon no?
No, it's very close to the same, in fact most of the code is shared. Also, WinUAE especially is pretty finely tuned, has many more years of development and can take advantage of drivers that have been optimized by the company that made the hardware. The Amithlon graphics drivers are reverse engineered and just a little more than a framebuffer, not much hardware acceleration.
I am buying the hardware from ebay anyway.
Soundblaster 128 PCI, Realtek 8139 PCI yes?
Graphics card...which is best?
One more question, right now I am transcoding 21 VIC20 videos AVI==>FLV and set task priority to lowest and watching Terra Nova on movie player with priority set to high and XP isn't doing a good job as video playback is jerky!!!! Does OS 3.9 suffer like this or does it have true responsive preemptive multitasking ?? :)
Most of the CPU time will be spent emulating a 68k CPU, so don't expect miracles.
Think of it as a cheap hyper fast Amiga, like a PPC system. It's never going to be as fast as a native x86 machine, OS and software because it has to spend time pretending to be something else.
Don't get me wrong, I love Amithlon, but you have to like it for what it really is.
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Most of the CPU time will be spent emulating a 68k CPU, so don't expect miracles.
Think of it as a cheap hyper fast Amiga, like a PPC system. It's never going to be as fast as a native x86 machine, OS and software because it has to spend time pretending to be something else.
Don't get me wrong, I love Amithlon, but you have to like it for what it really is.
I meant from proper loadsharing of CPU resource. My A1000 multi-tasks more appropriately than XP it seems in % of CPU power. The encoding should not have affected AVI playback ever if set to realtime :)
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I meant from proper loadsharing of CPU resource. My A1000 multi-tasks more appropriately than XP it seems in % of CPU power. The encoding should not have affected AVI playback ever if set to realtime :)
There are many, many things that could cause that.
For example, look at the NewTek TriCaster Studio. It can encode a web stream, record a stream of video, play back two streams of video plus switch 6 live video inputs all at once.
That runs on Windows XP with pretty moderate hardware, but it's a well oiled machine.
There are any number of factors that could cause the video to skip on your system but I can guarantee you that it's not a Windows design flaw.
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There are many, many things that could cause that.
For example, look at the NewTek TriCaster Studio. It can encode a web stream, record a stream of video, play back two streams of video plus switch 6 live video inputs all at once.
That runs on Windows XP with pretty moderate hardware, but it's a well oiled machine.
There are any number of factors that could cause the video to skip on your system but I can guarantee you that it's not a Windows design flaw.
Think it is, I use the same program for video encoding as it is the best regardless of cost for FLV conversion and Windows ignores any setting of task priority to "low" on Task Manager and happily assigns 99-100% CPU to the encoder process :)
Also it works just as badly if you try to get Windows to play HD content better by telling it the CODEC process needs to be "high" or "realtime".
It's like those options are fake and don't actually do anything haha
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Sorry, I missed the question 1st time around,.... it varies, but for 68k amithlon is probably between 90 and 200% of the speed of winuae on the same hardware depending on what its doing. The heavier the load the faster amithlon is vs winuae. Video is much faster on amithlon, heavier multitasking there's a big difference, lame encoding, video enconding, emulation,etc. all much faster on amithlon.
I also disagree that its possible to build a faster uae box vs. amithlon box. Amithlon can be used on the very latest hardware (Ive used it on both an i5-760 and an i7-2600k as an experiment, although my actual amithlon box is an old 3.86ghz core2duo (which is typically still faster than winuae on my Windows box (the aforementioned i7-2600k) .
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Give WinUAE a whirl first and see how that goes. If you already have a PC then this is not such a big investment. I'm not sure how well Catweasel PCI card is supported, but you could probably get Amiga floppy and joysticks easy enough through WinUAE. It will meet your chipset requirements, have use of the fastest hardware, and otherwise run fairly decent when you get WinUAE tweaked just right. I dink around with Amikit this way. And am investigating a much simpler 3.1/BetterWB setup this way. As far as seeing Windows or dealing with it, I have hear of ways to minimize its visual exposure.
Amithlon is very cool in a different usage regard. But maybe not the easiest path to attempt plus I wouldn't think your 68K UAE experience would be the best. I plan on soon jumping back into Amithlon with some kernel4 compatible hardware i have. And yes it will be in an old A2000 case too.
I have not personally tried the latest Aros w/ UAE. Looks good on the screen shots... This is easily tried without a big budget thanks to cheap PC hardware you probably already have.
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Sorry, I missed the question 1st time around,.... it varies, but for 68k amithlon is probably between 90 and 200% of the speed of winuae on the same hardware depending on what its doing. The heavier the load the faster amithlon is vs winuae. Video is much faster on amithlon, heavier multitasking there's a big difference, lame encoding, video enconding, emulation,etc. all much faster on amithlon.
I also disagree that its possible to build a faster uae box vs. amithlon box. Amithlon can be used on the very latest hardware (Ive used it on both an i5-760 and an i7-2600k as an experiment, although my actual amithlon box is an old 3.86ghz core2duo (which is typically still faster than winuae on my Windows box (the aforementioned i7-2600k) .
Do you mind if I ask you for advice on getting Amithlon and OS3.9 up and running on a spare Athlon XP machine? Sound and network not essential just want to try Amithlon and OS3.1 or OS3.9 (or both) on the machine :)
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Also it works just as badly if you try to get Windows to play HD content better by telling it the CODEC process needs to be "high" or "realtime".
It's like those options are fake and don't actually do anything haha
Why would you set a processor intensive process to realtime? I guess you had multiple cores or your machine would just become unresponsive.
If you did the same thing on amigaos then be prepared to wait until the process finishes before you can click on anything.
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Why would you set a processor intensive process to realtime? I guess you had multiple cores or your machine would just become unresponsive.
If you did the same thing on amigaos then be prepared to wait until the process finishes before you can click on anything.
+1
Some people are really confused about priorities and how to use them :-/