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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: Jose on January 07, 2004, 04:36:10 AM
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or something like that, it's happended to me, and keeps happening, (well not on the other day anymore...).
What's the true reason for this?
8-)
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Probably one of the most commonly asked questions of the Windows 9x series. "Why won't my computer actually shut DOWN??"
Best answer I've heard is that something that was active has stuck and won't properly close. It seems to be network connections that cause the most problems. Though sometimes this can be caused by an app that hangs at shutdown, as well. Particularly if that app happens to be a spyware, or some other network-aware thing.
Running a quick scan for spyware is a good idea. If there is nothing like that there, then of all the stupid things to do, updating Internet Explorer (even if you don't directly use it!) often eases this problem.
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Microsoft has had a number of Knowledge Base entries on this issue, and apparently, there's all kinds of things that can cause it. WinNT has it, my Win2K machine has it, my dad's XP system has it... you just have to live with it.
Something is not responding to the Term signal when Windows shuts down.
I can tell you what it isn't, though. I've found power management has nothing to do with it, so don't bother fooling around with your BIOS, like I did. ;-)
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No network connections, no spyware, no nothing. And it's still happends to often. But wait, it's not that I'm unhappy with this..:-D .sadly this problem doesn't seem to occur so much with XP at least from the few things I've heard..
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"my dad's XP system has it..."
Nice to know. I didn't knew XP had that plague too.
Does Linux has that too? I have an i386 Debian CD lying around I never bothered to install, but that day is coming closer.
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I know, I know!!
It's not an app or network problem, the whole termination process SUXX in windblows (it hangs itself)!.
And no, linux is ok with shutting down. Never happened to me that linux would hang itself.. :-D
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Strange and off-the-wall as it sounds, try reinstalling or upgrading the sound card drivers. Sometimes that fixes the problem for me.
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Kick winshit out of your HDDs, this will solve the problem :-D
[note: No money needed! This is a freeware advice, also presented as/is, and without any Warranty!]
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What windows version are you using? I know WinME had a known bug like this.. It would hang upon shutdown on faster hardware.. I think the solution was to turn off quick shutdown or something.. Good luck
Does Linux has that too? I have an i386 Debian CD lying around I never bothered to install, but that day is coming closer.
That has never ever happened to me :-) Not that i need to shutdown/reboot computer very ofen though :-D
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The step-by-step solution:
1> Buy decent hardware
2> Use decent drivers
3> Set up Windows properly and minimally
4> Don't install crap
It's been years since I've seen any of my systems not shut down properly, so I simply won't believe anyone who says they do all of the above and still gets problems.
I've updated my install guides to include a basic dialup/DSL home machine setup with Win2k, an XP one will follow soon, though I don't particularly recommend XP.
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4> Don't install crap
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avoid windows ;-)
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Open a Shell or use the run command in the start menu.. then run msconfig
you will find an option to in the advanced panel to correct the shutdown problem ("Disable Fast Shutdown" IIRC) :-)
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Have a look at these text and links... The first part is not for your problem, but if anybody has similar problems..
Note that these problems are discussed at length in Window Support forums, so most links come from there;
POWERDOWN ISSUES
"Powerdown issues" are quite distinctive from "shutdown issues." I define a shutdown problem as one wherein Windows doesn't make it at
least to the "OK to shut off your computer" screen. If Windows gets that
far, or farther, then it has shut down correctly. However, the computer
may not powerdown correctly after that. This is a different problem, and
I encourage people reporting these issues to make a clear distinction in
their labeling.
When Windows XP won't powerdown automatically, the APM/NT Legacy Power
Node may not be enabled. To enable this, right-click on the My Computer
icon, click Properties | Hardware | Device Manager | View. Check the box
labeled "Show Hidden Devices." If it's available on your computer, there
will be a red X on the APM/NT Legacy Node. Try enabling it and see if
this resolves the powerdown problem (Tip from Terri Stratton). Or, to
check the other side of the APM/ACPI coin, open the Power Options applet
in Control Panel. If there is an APM tab, make sure the "Enable Advanced
Power Management Support" box is checked.
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Quick idea here. I had several problems with shutting down XP and tried many things to cure it. Eventually, I got adaware and rant it. I had over 85 spyware items on my PC and removed them all. XP shuts down fine now. It seems that some of them don't shut down properly and hang the OS.
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Link 1 (http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid3Dkb;en-us;Q311787)
Link 2 (http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid3Dkb;en-us;Q314101)
Link 3 (http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid3Dkb;EN-US;q307274)
Link 4 (http://www.theeldergeek.com/shutdown_issues_in_xp.htm)
Link 5 (http://aumha.org/win5/a/shtdwnxp.htm)
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The original poster wasn't talking about older PCs not being able to shut themselves down. This is a hang on shutdown, so the PC never gets to the stage of switching off or saying "it is safe to".
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back when i was a admin for pc #### this was a very common question indeed.
what cauzed it? ..
modem's (card + install)
Virus Checkers (yep , they wont in all cases quit)
and last but not least windows Updates.
my advice, use AMIGA OS like me or use another Proper os, sure it has downsides (like u need atm 10+ year old HW and we dont have a decent browser, but seriously it makes up for all the crap in the x86 world)
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The original poster wasn't talking about older PCs not being able to shut themselves down. This is a hang on shutdown, so the PC never gets to the stage of switching off or saying "it is safe to".
AFAIK, the links I provided also give tips on solving those. Like waccoon said, there's plenty of info to be found on the Window Forums. Or search on groups.google.com, keywords "Windows hangs on shut down" or something similar.
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Picture this:
It's Friday and I'm leaving the office and am running late. I'm meeting the guys in the bar shortly and shut down my Windows 98 box and turn off the monitor without checking that it's shutting down.
Monday morning guess what's on my screen....
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my advice, use AMIGA OS like me or use another Proper os, sure it has downsides (like u need atm 10+ year old HW and we dont have a decent browser, but seriously it makes up for all the crap in the x86 world)
I wonder how true this would be when Amiga OS / Morph OS starts supporting the same amounts as Hardware as Windows does out of the box.. (That includes all mobo's and their revisions and every bit of hardware people can think of.. This is not intended as a flame towards you, I really love to see both of these OSes supporting more hardware)
Sure Windows is crap lots of times, but it does have it good points.
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It just occured to me... I used to have a problem with Win2K taking forever to shut down, and I found it was because I had too many files (more than 2GB) on my desktop. When I moved a few huge files to the D: drive, shutdown times improved enormously.
Still, I think this was a known problem, and was fixed in a critical update. My desktop is my working folder, and I still have tons of files in folders on my desktop, but the shutdown times are normal, now.
2> Use decent drivers
Thanks for saying "decent" instead of "latest". For a good example of why, try a recent release of nVidia's Detonator drivers. Boy, have they ever screwed up big-time on the FX drivers. Almost everybody I know uses the older 45.23 WHQL drivers. The newest drivers are designed to boost performace to keep up with ATI, but only give me frequent BSOD's.
I think that was the first time I ever downgraded drivers to make my system stable. Lots of people are complaining about it.
3> Set up Windows properly and minimally
It really annoys me that Microsoft removed MSConfig in Windows2000 (but put it back into WinXP). I use AppPaths to keep Windows clean.
App Paths (http://www.GregoryBraun.com/AppPaths.html)
Beware, the site uses page transitions, a feature no web browser should ever support.
4> Don't install crap
Hoo, you should have seen my Aunt's computer, which I fixed over the holiday season. It had at least four spamware programs installed on it which continuously plastered the screen with pop-ups even when IE was not running. Even worse, it was a Win98 system upgraded to Win2K, and ran off two hard drives, so it had files all over the place, and had only 50Megs free on the boot drive. I wanted to re-install it, but only had an hour to work on it. That was the most cluttered machine I'd ever seen. I'm surprised it even boot!
It's been years since I've seen any of my systems not shut down properly, so I simply won't believe anyone who says they do all of the above and still gets problems.
Oh, I've seen everything go wrong, even with top-flite hardware and meticulous care. Some Windows machines just won't shut down. Obviously, if you have a system that *consistently* takes forever to shut down, there's a problem. But it's "normal" for a Windows system to lock up on shutdown once in a while.
Sure Windows is crap lots of times, but it does have it good points.
Thanks for saying what needs to be said. I've always felt Microsoft does a good job supporting their products, even if they don't get it right the first time.
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Thanks for saying "decent" instead of "latest". For a good example of why, try a recent release of nVidia's Detonator drivers. Boy, have they ever screwed up big-time on the FX drivers. Almost everybody I know uses the older 45.23 WHQL drivers. The newest drivers are designed to boost performace to keep up with ATI, but only give me frequent BSOD's.
What card, out of interest? I'm sticking with the 4x.xx drivers as I heard that the FX drivers aren't as good with GeForce 4 hardware.
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seer wrote:
my advice, use AMIGA OS like me or use another Proper os, sure it has downsides (like u need atm 10+ year old HW and we dont have a decent browser, but seriously it makes up for all the crap in the x86 world)
I wonder how true this would be when Amiga OS / Morph OS starts supporting the same amounts as Hardware as Windows does out of the box.. (That includes all mobo's and their revisions and every bit of hardware people can think of.. This is not intended as a flame towards you, I really love to see both of these OSes supporting more hardware)
Sure Windows is crap lots of times, but it does have it good points.
While I really don't want to be seen supporting Windows in any way. I have to agree with you wholehartedly!!
No matter how much I hate windows and get annoyed at it's problems and perculiraties, I have nothing but respect for the fact that I can run it on any hardware I choose... and Linux is getting VERY close to that point too!!!
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Hmm... I run a GeForce 4, and have no problems with the 52.16 drivers, myself. I get 3dMarks comparable to systems quite a bit more powerful than mine. Actually, it's been many many months since I've had anything resembling an unstable WHQL driver from nVidia. Just goes to show, though, you never can tell. It's a lot of variables that go into making a modern Windows box. Some of it comes with skill and experience, and some of it comes with luck.
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It's been years since I've seen any of my systems not shut down properly, so I simply won't believe anyone who says they do all of the above and still gets problems.
So just because it works on your pc, means it should work the same way on totally different hardware??
And also, this problem was a known bug with certain windows versions, like for example WindowsME..
This was a problem that was more common on faster systems..
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you will find an option to in the advanced panel to correct the shutdown problem ("Disable Fast Shutdown" IIRC)
That is the one :-)
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The original poster wasn't talking about older PCs not being able to shut themselves down. This is a hang on shutdown, so the PC never gets to the stage of switching off or saying "it is safe to".
This problem was common with newer pcs, not older ones...
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Hmm... I run a GeForce 4, and have no problems with the 52.16 drivers, myself. I get 3dMarks comparable to systems quite a bit more powerful than mine. Actually, it's been many many months since I've had anything resembling an unstable WHQL driver from nVidia. Just goes to show, though, you never can tell. It's a lot of variables that go into making a modern Windows box. Some of it comes with skill and experience, and some of it comes with luck.
What's your system's spec, out of interest? I might give them a try as well :-)
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It's been years since I've seen any of my systems not shut down properly, so I simply won't believe anyone who says they do all of the above and still gets problems.
So just because it works on your pc, means it should work the same way on totally different hardware??
And also, this problem was a known bug with certain windows versions, like for example WindowsME..
This was a problem that was more common on faster systems..
Say hello to the concept of reading my entire post, instead of nitpicking a single sentence out of context :-)
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Waccoon wrote:
I can tell you what it isn't, though. I've found power management has nothing to do with it, so don't bother fooling around with your BIOS, like I did. ;-)
Ummm, yes it does, and why are you touching your bios? if you install ATM when installing windows, it works fine until you start screwing with things.
Wacoon also wrote:
3> Set up Windows properly and minimally
It really annoys me that Microsoft removed MSConfig in Windows2000 (but put it back into WinXP). I use AppPaths to keep Windows clean.
Unfortunately it is sometimes impossible to avoid this. Remote desktop, ODBC data sources, microcrud vb.net framwork server & other rubbish like that, which is useful rubbish :-)
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The original poster wasn't talking about older PCs not being able to shut themselves down. This is a hang on shutdown, so the PC never gets to the stage of switching off or saying "it is safe to".
This problem was common with newer pcs, not older ones...
Which problem are you talking about, the first, on-topic comment or the later off-topic comment?
Either way...
The first problem can happen if a system is lacking in any of the four respects I described. The second comment, describing a possible solution is only for older PCs.
PCs with ACPI enabled and properly working will be detected by Windows (98 and later) and will power off themselves when sent the shutdown command. PCs without ACPI, the older variety, don't do this by default, the shutdown command doesn't make the right requests by default, so on NTx based systems, that "APM/NT Legacy Power Node" needs to be installed by the user. Or the PC supplier may have done it for you.
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mikeymike wrote:
It's been years since I've seen any of my systems not shut down properly, so I simply won't believe anyone who says they do all of the above and still gets problems.
So just because it works on your pc, means it should work the same way on totally different hardware??
And also, this problem was a known bug with certain windows versions, like for example WindowsME..
This was a problem that was more common on faster systems..
Say hello to the concept of reading my entire post, instead of nitpicking a single sentence out of context :-)
Well i have seen problems even when using microsoft certfied drivers and hardware that is supposed to be decent..
But i guess your definition of good hardware=those who work flawlessly with windows ;-)
Take for example of my dads pc... It was horrible unstable under WindowsXP, never managed higher uptimes of more than max a week... A year or so ago i decided to install linux instead, and has since then not had any stability problems at all.. Same pc had a uptimes of over 80 days...
I am not saying that linux is better in all ways, but Windows do has is share of problems, so does linux in other aspects..
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Unfortunately it is sometimes impossible to avoid this. Remote desktop, ODBC data sources, microcrud vb.net framwork server & other rubbish like that, which is useful rubbish
No it isn't "impossible". But it is irritating that they are installed needlessly, but that's the MS way of doing things, sadly.
Remote Desktop can be unconfigured so it won't be running all the time, although ODBC would take some significant work to remove (and unnecessary, I've never heard of ODBC drivers causing problems with system reliability). ".NET" is just a marketing slogan that loads of things have been badged with for the last couple of years :-) It means several different things, and virtually no theme on common across products.
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just a pic to show he isn't lying ;-)
Pic of xp with "new hardware found" http://aa.domaindlx.com/pkx89/battery.jpg (http://aa.domaindlx.com/pkx89/battery.jpg)
- edited by mikeymike - no large images in forums please! -
oh yeah, forgot to add, i don't shut my comp down using windows shutdown (heh heh, lucky i spotted the typo :-) ) i made my own little vb proggy which closes all processes (if not possible it ignores them) and then does a force shutdown anyway :-D
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Well i have seen problems even when using microsoft certfied drivers and hardware that is supposed to be decent..
Microsoft consider all of its wares to be "decent" :-)
But i guess your definition of good hardware=those who work flawlessly with windows
:-) As with any tool, you have to be sure it fits the purpose you're going to be using it for. It would be dumb to buy a high-end graphics card for use in *NIX when there is no support for its high-end'ness, for example :-)
If I'm buying new hardware, I do a lot of research first. Technical hardware forums, google searches for issues with it, etc. Even seemingly irrelevant issues (like say hardware<-> Linux issues) can be of use in my decision.
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to know if it's crap, first we have to install it, besides, having so much people behynd Windows they should have a better system.
On Amiga only one time I screwed it up when messing with PFS, by the very nature of Windows one have to be too much carefull which one install... damn registry.
I can have my amiga full of programs, the hd full and not even an hickup, the windows... it need a reinstall every 6 months...
Very sad indeed, if this is evolution..
how one know if it's crap if one doesn't
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@mikeymike-
What's your system's spec, out of interest? I might give them a try as well
Hmm... Well, it's a bit of an older system that is about to get a new proc and motherboard (new build of Windows, etc..), which was why I ran the benchmark, to get a good before/after.
Anyhow, you can see the system details at
my 3dMark 2003 compare score (http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=1850908 )
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windows sux at shutting down, gotta remember windows leaves programs open all the time, even when u close them. you prob have a conflict of certain programs wh en it shuts down, making it unstable (wow thats a new concept for windows). once a prog becomes unstable at shut down its near impossible for windows to close it, making shutdown unable to work. If it happens try using ctrl+alt+DELt then when a box or warning screen comes up use it again, most of the time it'll reboot w/o the scan disk coming up.