Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: jorkany on October 31, 2011, 12:49:39 PM
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I just read on another website that Hyperion is back in court with Amiga Inc. here in the USA fighting to become "teh RAEL Amiga!":
http://www.amigans.net/modules/xforum/viewtopic.php?post_id=65917#forumpost65917
Hyperion Entertainment are the legal owners to the AmigaOS. (Hopefully one day the Amiga name too - not saying they aren't already, but its all in the US courts again)
Does anybody have more information about this new court case?
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Time will tell, but I really dont care to follow another courtcase. It was boring last time and even the thought of another is boring me :)
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Why doesn't Hyperionjust buy a license to the Amiga name from Amiga Inc and stop waiting money on attorneys?
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@persia
That sounds way too normal a solution for the amiga world (or would if it wasnt for the typo) :)
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I seem to be missing something since I can't see anywhere in that thread where it says that Hyperion and Amiga Inc are in court again.
I can see someones personal opinion (which you quoted) that they should get the Amiga name and then someone confusingly asking if the two were in court again but that comment was more of a question than a statement to the quoted personal opinion of one person.
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I seem to be missing something since I can't see anywhere in that thread where it says that Hyperion and Amiga Inc are in court again.
To me the distinction is clear. Hyperion Entertainment are the legal owners to the AmigaOS. (Hopefully one day the Amiga name too - not saying they aren't already, but its all in the US courts again)
Maybe Mikey_C knows something.
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@persia
That sounds way too normal a solution for the amiga world (or would if it wasnt for the typo) :)
it also assumes mcewen would be willing. although i imagine kouri's estate manager would.... ;)
-- eliyahu
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@jorkany
From your link I saw that MikeyC is at it again, feeding lies to his flock:
"Hyperion Entertainment are the legal owners to the AmigaOS. (Hopefully one day the Amiga name too - not saying they aren't already, but its all in the US courts again)
Therefore as the legitamate owners of AmigaOS - Hyperion can port it to what ever they want. Its their OS."
Oh my. Well here we go again:
http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/washington/wawdce/2:2007cv00631/143245/148/1.html
Definitions:
n. "Software" means Amiga OS 3.1, which is the Operating System (including
without limitation its Software Architecture as described in the Documentation)
originally developed, owned and marketed by Commodore Business Machines
(CBM) for their Amiga line of computers in 1994.
d. "AmigaOS 4" means the Operating System developed by Hyperion and based in
part on the Software, including without limitation the Software Architecture of the
Software as described in the Documentation, in any version (irrespective of
version numbering, e.g. AmigaOS 5).
1. Grant.
(a) Hyperion acknowledges that the Amiga Parties [read: Amiga Inc] are the owners of the Software,
without prejudice to any third parties with rights in said Software. The Amiga
Parties acknowledge that Hyperion is the sole owner of AmigaOS 4 (with the
exception[!!!] of the Software), without prejudice to any third parties with rights in
said software.
So this means in practice that Hyperion has built a house, but they did so partly by using building materials that Amiga Inc *still owns* (as they even acknowledged themselves). So Hyperion "owns" their new OS4 house, but they are not owners of the materials that the house consists of, not all the stuff that actually makes it a house. The walls, floor, ceiling and doors are still owned by Amiga Inc!
So MikeyC, this is a BIG difference from what you tried to picture over at amigans.net! Hyperion may have the right to *distribute* Amiga OS 3.1 (which they do in the "derived work" called OS4 that is said to be based on OS3.1), but they *are not* "the legitamate owners of AmigaOS" (and given the dirty ways they used to get whatever they might have, I would say they don't even have *moral* rights to it), they even acknowledge this themselves in the very agreement that grants them their rights to use the Amiga IP. Quoted above, a copy&paste directly from the agreement, black on white!
I'm puzzled why this is so hard to understand...
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I'm puzzled why this is so hard to understand...
i'm puzzled why you care.
-- eliyahu
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Why doesn't Hyperionjust buy a license to the Amiga name from Amiga Inc and stop waiting money on attorneys?
Because they want it for free without paying any money for it? Like they did previously, i.e. signing a contract for 4 months of very limited and carefully outlined consultant work on a new thing called OS4, but ended up spending half a decade more while hoping for their employer to die, refusing to handing over their work to its rightful owner despite having been paid for it, and then managing to force themselves to rights they would never meant to have, just because the rightful owner was too weak to defend itself. They got what they got through a white collar robbery, and what they have done to Amiga is a intellectual rape, they have really ****ed it up, not only the OS itself (through their ignorance and incompetence), but also everything the Amiga once stood for!
Its so funny to look at old Ben Hermans/Hyperion public communications (http://www.biclodon.com/misc/amigafarm/benhermans/) from the past with this in mind! I mean, take these lies, replace "MorphOS" with "OS4" and "the MorphOS Team" with "Hyperion", and they will actually becomes kind of *true*:
"In my opinion a a lawyer, MorphOS violates the intellectual property of Amiga Inc for which they paid 4.5 million dollar."
"The failure of Amiga Inc and the MorphOS team to come to terms is in part due to the fact that Amiga wants to assert their ownership and intellectual property rights over the Amiga OS (for which they paid 4.5 M USD) whilst the MorphOS team happily continues to refute those claims"
Etc, etc...
:rolleyes:
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Precisely.
it also assumes mcewen would be willing. although i imagine kouri's estate manager would.... ;)
-- eliyahu
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i'm puzzled why you care.
-- eliyahu
Free Tibet?
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Mikey_C doesn't know his arse from his elbow.
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Free Tibet
Cool, I'll take it :)
(sorry, too much Simpsons) :)
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Mikey_C doesn't know his arse from his elbow.
I find that hard to believe. Surely a person would know where thier head has been for the last few years? :P
Sorry, I didnt really mean it, was just too good a setup to pass-up :)
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@thread
update here (http://www.amigans.net/modules/xforum/viewtopic.php?post_id=65963#forumpost65963).
-- eliyahu
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@thread
update here (http://www.amigans.net/modules/xforum/viewtopic.php?post_id=65963#forumpost65963).
-- eliyahu
Oh I see, he believed Ben Hermans.
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Oh I see, he believed Ben Hermans.
we don't know the source of his hearing about the seeking of 'legal advice,' so it's a bit unfair to assume ben had said anything one way or another. this is why we have hearsay rules in civil law. ;)
-- eliyahu
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Oh I see, he believed Ben Hermans.
Hermans, gotta love the him (http://sintonen.fi/temp/hermans.txt). If you ever meet the guy watch out or you might get sued!
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More dick waving about BS that no one cares about. The few of us still here doing CPR on the corpse of the Amiga want some product, innovation, and options - and no one really cares if it's red, blue, green pink or brown.
The people sucking off the lawsuit teet for the last nearly 20 years have been doing more harm than good - support them in no way. Their shouts and screams about legal entitlements will not get us old Amiga farts left here a damned thing. I'd never seen that Hermans' email and wish I hadn't, but it is not surprising.
Support the grassroots guys with tin on their irons as best you can, like Mike (FPGA), and the Natami crew, AROS, etc.
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What an absolute schmuck (Ben Hermans via that email linked to).
Of course Ive always thought as much, some time ago he attacked me in a thread at amigaworld for asking what the plan after amigaos4 was done was. This was well before os4 pre beta, so it wasnt like all the typical things had been talked to death yet either at the time, I was a genuinely interested customer. Also, if I recall correctly (was many years ago) I had a few suggestions/ideas. I cant recall what really, and Im sure they werent any sort of game changers, but Id like to think they werent as stupid or strange as the usual ideas that pop up at amigaworld.
Being that Hyperion made games it seemed a pretty reasonable question, but he seemed to think the question had some sort of hidden meaning.
I was quite surpsied and somewhat shocked by his response. Id been AmigaOS only up to this point too (that has changed now, and to be honest Ben Hermans himself is partly responsible for this).
Im normally pretty much a pacifist and dont hold many grudges, but the way he spoke to me, a complete stranger, who was simply interested in where his hobby was going has put him on my list of people Id love to smack in the mouth.
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Holy Sh!t! Do those guys really have *NOTHING* else to do???
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I don't know (or pretend to know) exactly what was going on in those days, but I do remember this:
In 2004, when that e-mail was written, both Hyperion and Genesi were doing everything they could to stop each other. It's not like good vs. evil - this is business vs. business - and I'm afraid that sort of thing's fairly standard fare....
If someone's preparing to sue you, you do everything you can to stop them, simple as that.
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I don't know (or pretend to know) exactly what was going on in those days, but I do remember this:
In 2004, when that e-mail was written, both Hyperion and Genesi were doing everything they could to stop each other. It's not like good vs. evil - this is business vs. business - and I'm afraid that sort of thing's fairly standard fare....
If someone's preparing to sue you, you do everything you can to stop them, simple as that.
Herman is a tw@, simple as that.
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Herman is a tw@, simple as that.
this from a guy whose signature includes a quote from hassan nasrallah. not sure if that speaks well of your ability to judge a person's character. ;)
-- eliyahu
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Seems like modern bureaucracy is slowing the creative process down yet again...Amiga does not belong to Amiga Inc for money or any other reason, they did not see the role of Amiga as important to the users, they just took it's name and jumped on the bandwagon of, hey, let make Amiga, a profitable scheme by using its name as a creative and intellectual property without investing in technological research...con artists who think they can make a deal or two from using other platforms by using the Amiga name.. Well, at least Hyperion have more credibility in programming to make Amiga more interesting than some souped up second rate machine with an Amiga logo on it. Apple is only Apple because it has it's own operating system that suits it's users but Amiga inclined has nothing of the sort because they failed to reach the target Market, and that is, creative a machine that users want to use, because it's original and different. This is my Gripe about technology and computing, that it's run by people who don't actually know that much about computing...leave it to the experts and let the guys who want technology to be something more than a corporate machine, get on with it!
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Hyperion didn't have the intelligence to port OS4 to Xenon PPC whilst getting IBM to design a suitable motherboard.
So they're not worthy of owning the name Amiga, nor is Amiga Inc, Morph OS team, Clowntoo, x1000 x500 or SAM460 hardware producers.
In fact nobody deserves the name today because nobody exists to make a computer akin to Amiga 1000 in 1985 (fasrer than most powerful PC/Mac at halfthe price with a stunningly elegant and powerful OS)
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Hyperion didn't have the intelligence to port OS4 to Xenon PPC whilst getting IBM to design a suitable motherboard.
So they're not worthy of owning the name Amiga, nor is Amiga Inc, Morph OS team, Clowntoo, x1000 x500 or SAM460 hardware producers.
In fact nobody deserves the name today because nobody exists to make a computer akin to Amiga 1000 in 1985 (fasrer than most powerful PC/Mac at halfthe price with a stunningly elegant and powerful OS)
are you kidding me? do you have any idea how much it would have cost to engage IBM ETS on a design project like that? not to mention that waternoose isn't available for sale to external customers!
please. if you want to bash hyperion, try another tack. 'cause this one is absurd.
-- eliyahu
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@ jorkany
since you have such a keen interest in the ongoings over at amigans.net then I'm sure you know the outcome of that thread you so kindly quoted:rolleyes:
I suggest you take this **** to your favourite site...oops sorry second favourite site after amigans.net that is
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Amiga does not belong to Amiga Inc for money or any other reason,
Why not? I dont like Amiga Inc. but they paid many million dollars to acquire Amiga as Ben Hermans has stated. Anything else is just stealing.
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Why not? I dont like Amiga Inc. but they paid many million dollars to acquire Amiga as Ben Hermans has stated. Anything else is just stealing.
Well technically....I guess they do own the 'Amiga' as computer brand name... it's Amiga they have but not as we knew it. I think that Amiga belongs to the users, because they do more with it than Amiga inc has ever done.
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Well technically....I guess they do own the 'Amiga' as computer brand name... it's Amiga they have but not as we knew it. I think that Amiga belongs to the users, because they do more with it than Amiga inc has ever done.
Maybe we should start a community + Ex community awareness project to raise enough funds to buy Amiga name from Amiga Inc and then we can decide who can do what with Amiga.
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Yeah good idea. I think I can chuck in a few million, anyone else get any spare change ?
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Yeah good idea. I think I can chuck in a few million, anyone else get any spare change ?
I think I've got a couple of million old Turkish Lirasi knocking about somewhere.
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@ jorkany
since you have such a keen interest in the ongoings over at amigans.net then I'm sure you know the outcome of that thread you so kindly quoted:rolleyes:
I suggest you take this **** to your favourite site...oops sorry second favourite site after amigans.net that is
I'm not clear on how this is ****, after all Mikey_C is supposed to be an insider so I thought he had the facts. I guess it turns out he's just speculating like everyone else, there's no solid facts or truths when dealing with Hyperion & Co. except maybe Acube.
So amigans or moobunny, it's just a question of what outlet do you want to get your bull**** from. If anything moobunny is a more honest site because you can expect anything posted there to be questionable while things are taken as gospel on other sites (when it comes to OS4 anyway), including this one.
You won't have to wait until Summer 2010!