Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: Digiman on October 27, 2011, 08:27:44 PM
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I see a fair bit of 8bit coding that technically improved over 80s/90s games.
Most Amiga games shown in CU Amiga etc in late 90s had the smell of 99pence PD crap.
Any new OCS/AGA homebrew games as funky as Beast 1, Super Stardust, Lionheart, Sword of Sodan or Lotus 2?
Anybody working on replacing all those horrible arcade conversions in 80s/90s like Outrun etc?
Or did Amiga peak in early 90s?
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I guess the problem is that for the 8-bit games there is a lot less required to master the computer, and also due to constraints the full game including graphics and audio can be done by one or two people in their spare time.
Pushing the Amiga and creating something worthwhile could take one or two people over a year (unless there is a site for Amiga code samples (hitting the hardware in assembler) that could speed up development) to get something done. Also the level of graphics the Amiga can achieve means that "programmer graphics" often won't be good enough!
I think Cammy has plans to get some games going, but it's probably early days. But yeah, it requires a few people dedicating some time to getting it done, and it helps if one or two are already experienced with the Amiga hardware.
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I see a fair bit of 8bit coding that technically improved over 80s/90s games.
Most Amiga games shown in CU Amiga etc in late 90s had the smell of 99pence PD crap.
Any new OCS/AGA homebrew games as funky as Beast 1, Super Stardust, Lionheart, Sword of Sodan or Lotus 2?
Anybody working on replacing all those horrible arcade conversions in 80s/90s like Outrun etc?
Or did Amiga peak in early 90s?
If you want to watch productions pushing the OCS/AGA technically, you shall look for demoscene productions, not games. Some of the demoscene engines turned into games, but most of the routines never go outside the impressive technical demos that we see at the demo scene parties.
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Hmmm... It's not too hard to push the custom hardware... Most the the demo scene stuff I've seen seem to be using clever code to ge the CPU to perform well...
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When PD writers did something cool, it generally became a full release, a lot of demo crews got into professional game dev this way.
Unlike the 8 bits, doing very high quality work on the Amiga, requires lots of time, and/or a team of people, two things which are difficult to get. I would love to do some Amiga games, I do game graphics for a living, but I just can't find the time :(
If Amos had taken proper advantage of AGA, or if SEUCK had an updated indepth sequel, maybe we would see more cutting edge Amiga one man (or woman) titles.
Babenoid is very cool, and the work of one man.
http://hem.fyristorg.com/dawnbringer/z-babe-f.html
Trick or treat was a very cool wolf engine split screen shooter.
http://hol.abime.net/5410
Deluxe galaga was very professional, and has great playability
http://www.lemonamiga.com/games/details.php?id=1298
Total chaos, a great strategy game
http://hol.abime.net/3861
Slipstream A demo of a wipeout clone
http://eager.back2roots.org/DATA/S/SLISM.html
It might be worth looking on here: http://www.amigapd.com
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Slightly off topic, but check out the batman demo for the Amstrad CPC and then pick your jaws up off the floor
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I was about to mention that demo. heh weird. probably on my mind as it was mentioned on irc earlier.
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Slightly off topic, but check out the batman demo for the Amstrad CPC and then pick your jaws up off the floor
I've just seen it, and I'm still not sure a CPC can do it!!! :-D
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Me neither , Though I have always manintained the CPC was the best of the 8bit computers, I keep meaning to download it and try it on the actual hardware I own., it'sbeen around a few months.
I could see it running on an emulator sped up, but they reckon runds on standard hardware
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Slightly off topic, but check out the batman demo for the Amstrad CPC and then pick your jaws up off the floor
The CPC was chronically underused. I really love the look of Orion Prime, probably the sort of thing the OP was talking about.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NN2gC_SVLQ&feature=related
I would love to something like this for OCS/AGA but using HAM/HAM8 in a dungeonmaster style.
Render all the graphics in 3D studiomax, with normal mapping, global illumination etc.
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Operation Wolf , the game, was really good on the Amstrad.
I used to be able to code the cpc, had rom boxes, with maxim and protext , a mouse. etc etc
Still got all the firmware manuals somewhere.
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Me neither , Though I have always manintained the CPC was the best of the 8bit computers, I keep meaning to download it and try it on the actual hardware I own., it'sbeen around a few months.
I could see it running on an emulator sped up, but they reckon runds on standard hardware
Ok, they do need one of the later models of CPC so I guess it is less impossible ;) hehehe
What this does show is how much the Amiga was an evolution of the previous generation of computers rather than a revolution :-/
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Me neither , Though I have always manintained the CPC was the best of the 8bit computers, I keep meaning to download it and try it on the actual hardware I own., it'sbeen around a few months.
I could see it running on an emulator sped up, but they reckon runds on standard hardware
The best 8-bit computer is the SAM Coupe. I really love emulating the SAM on my AmigaOS 4 machine. Too bad the SAMs are pretty expensive on E-bay that I can not justify buying one of them.
I had a project to write SAM Coupe emulator for classic Amigas but I abandoned it in favour of the Sim Coupe on Amiga.
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while offtopic - I really enjoy the Amiga 500 demo from Batman group released in 1995 - I'm sure you are all familiar, but just in case
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvqXVAo5WZY
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Ok, they do need one of the later models of CPC so I guess it is less impossible ;) hehehe
What this does show is how much the Amiga was an evolution of the previous generation of computers rather than a revolution :-/
Is it running on the 6128+ , I can't remember.
The + had 4096 colours and extra hardware sprites, was still running a 3 mhz Z80 though.
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Just watched the Amiga demo... And order returns to the universe, that is better than the CPC demo, as one would expect :) only difference is that I can see how they did all the effects on this one :)
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Ok, they do need one of the later models of CPC so I guess it is less impossible ;) hehehe
What this does show is how much the Amiga was an evolution of the previous generation of computers rather than a revolution :-/
It's not the previous generation though. The CPC was 1984, and this won't run on stock. I'd say it's the same generation- which shows how powerful the Amiga was in 1985.
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Is it running on the 6128+ , I can't remember.
The + had 4096 colours and extra hardware sprites, was still running a 3 mhz Z80 though.
I think that demo was for 464 with some extra ram. unsure though. I have a 464/6128 in the loft I think. or something like that, i should get it down and see if I can get this running.
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I had the ram expansion for my 6128 bringing the ram up to a massive 256k. IT used bank switching to add the extra ram.
Cost a small forturne as well
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Is it running on the 6128+ , I can't remember.
The + had 4096 colours and extra hardware sprites, was still running a 3 mhz Z80 though.
Same as the GX4000 console. CPC+ = Hardware sprites, pixel scrolling, 4096 palette and 3.5mhz Z80 IIRC, got one but need monitor to power it. But NEC PC ENGINE with custom chips + 6502 doing Outrun and R-TYPE justice seems more impressive IMO
Ok, they do need one of the later models of CPC so I guess it is less impossible ;) hehehe
What this does show is how much the Amiga was an evolution of the previous generation of computers rather than a revolution :-/
ST is true successor to CPC really. Good colour, fast screen memory access. Z80 in CPC is nothing cutting edge, 1982 Sinclair job. C64 was the finest IMO for pre ST/Amiga launch day. Then Atari 800 (check out Rescue on Fractalus/Koronis Rift).
Amiga was very much Atari 8bit on steroids....also inherited its weak hardware sprites too sadly, blitter has to do everything due to that weakness. Still if you think like tat CPC & ST is evolution of Sinclair Zx80 or Commodore PET and Atari 400/800, C64 & Amiga just evolution of Atari 2600 VCS. But this is gross exaggeration :)
@ all CPC fans in thread
Anyway look for the CPC Shadow of the Beast overground demo too.....for a machine without hardware pixel scroll it's mighty impressive. BUT demo code <> feasible game engine which this a prime example of.
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Thanks all. Demos use pre-calculated code/pre-shifted data mostly, no good for game engines then.
I agree Amiga is complex and abilities hard to nail 100%, but just look at Space Harrier for Atari XE and compare it to 80s Atari 8bit games.
Even if someone just hacked Lotus II graphics with big clouds, palm trees, sand and Ferraris would be nice but games of era of Super Stardust = abrupt end.
Graphcs/audio helpers are rife on forums worldwide, talented machine code programmers squeezing hardware to 95% for game engines are not easy to find.
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while offtopic - I really enjoy the Amiga 500 demo from Batman group released in 1995 - I'm sure you are all familiar, but just in case
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvqXVAo5WZY
Lovely 32 colour artwork and music is good but not as impressive as torus tunnel on A500/1000/2000 Stardust game's high score screen really or Desert Dream MODs IMO.
I would have expected this game in 640x512 on AGA by now.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O0U1QGmi4I
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In a sense, Cinemaware was pushing the envelope quite early.
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In a sense, Cinemaware was pushing the envelope quite early.
Of all the 1986 games I think Marble Madness is the brightest star.
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I would have expected this game in 640x512 on AGA by now.....
You can count all the Amiga's playable animated 640x512x256 AGA games on your thumbs.
Beast 1, Super Stardust, Lionheart, Sword of Sodan or Lotus 2?
Those games are all very very lores, 320x256. They are not pushing AGA at all.
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You can count all the Amiga's playable animated 640x512x256 AGA games on your thumbs.
Those games are all very very lores, 320x256. They are not pushing AGA at all.
Being playable in 640x512 on AGA doesnt automatically make a game technically impressive. I cant think of any games that Id say are more impressive than any of the games mentioned above that are running in 640x512.
The fluidity of movement, amount of large animated graphics, parallax, great sound (bot technically and to listen to), etc. are what makes those games impressive.
Care to point out even one game that's running in 640x512 that pushes the aga hardware better?
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I can name 5000 Animated Amiga games that play on AGA in 320x256.
Can you name 5000 Animated Amiga games that play on AGA in 640x512?
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No, I cant because there wasnt many. Still doesnt make what I said any less true. Running at a higher resolution doesnt automatically make a game use hardware any better. Yes, it can choke the machine easier, but it all depends on whats going on screen.
You can run Napalm in 640x512 and Foundation in 640x512 for example, but neither use the hardware better than something like super stardust or Elfmania for example. Neither move as many graphics around, or nearly as smoothly, nor in a way that "realtime" quick responses are required (and influence onscreen action in "realtime").
Show me something like them in a higher resolution and then sure, the fact theyre in 640x512 is something to give credit to, but as things stand I still dont think there's anything available in anything but standard low res that really pushes the hardware in an impressive way. Good games in 640x512 or higher, sure, there's some, but none that impress technically in the same way as things like LionHeart, Super Stardust, Elfmania, Brian The Lion and so on.
Or if you care to offer some games that show otherwise Id be happy to hear about them.
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Regardless of memories, 8 bit was never that good.
Usually the processors were something lame like the Z80 or a 6502 (or its derivitives).
A few machines had good VDGs and sound, but processors were just weak (personally I would have liked a Hitachi 63C09E).
Flame on...
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personally I would have liked a Hitachi 63C09E
Yeah, that would have been great. Too bad only the Dragon/Coco and Vectrex used that family. It would have been great for the C= 64 I think.
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Speaking of Tandy Coco's, Id have loved to see some scene demos for the coco3. Quite a nice 8bit machine that unfortunately never really got a chance to strut it stuff.
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Being playable in 640x512 on AGA doesnt automatically make a game technically impressive. I cant think of any games that Id say are more impressive than any of the games mentioned above that are running in 640x512.
The fluidity of movement, amount of large animated graphics, parallax, great sound (bot technically and to listen to), etc. are what makes those games impressive.
Care to point out even one game that's running in 640x512 that pushes the aga hardware better?
My point was that PC game in the youtube video (Mini Racing Online), an isometric 8 way scrolling game with tiny sprites of F1 cars has not even been replicated on AGA machines in 18 years. Scrolling a 640x400/512 screen and animating a dozen or more 16x16 pixel bobs with some engine sounds SHOULD have happened at some point. It was an example of a simple game that could be converted even today without the need for chipset hacking 020 ASM code.
It points out how little is actually happening in Amiga homebrew.
(A very similar game was in development for OCS/ECS called the big engine/big end. An isometric F1 racer in 320x200 mode. Never released though so just a few screen shots in Amiga games that weren't etc. But if you can do a scrolly iso racer on OCS you can certainly do a scrolly hires iso racer on AGA no? Pixel scroll takes no time at all so it's just blitting the edge of the screen and moving tiny car sprites micro machines style.)
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Regardless of memories, 8 bit was never that good.
Usually the processors were something lame like the Z80 or a 6502 (or its derivitives).
A few machines had good VDGs and sound, but processors were just weak (personally I would have liked a Hitachi 63C09E).
Flame on...
You don't need a 68000 to scroll a screen or animate stuff or make great sounds. C64 is proof of that, and actually the Last Ninja tunes on SID make a mockery of the feable Paula efforts (which is normal, most games coders used the same crappy samples and forced them into the songs instead of getting off their asses and SAMPLING THE CORRECT INSTRUMENTS grrrr!!!)
Sure you can't do Starglider 2 on a C64 etc but it's no big loss. There's actually MORE full screen parallax scrollers on C64 than Amiga...go figure :banana:
To be honest the C64 and VIC were pushed a lot, many times. I know this because I spend most of my spare time recording gameplay videos for those two machines mostly and approaching 600 vids now on my channel.
(ie not simple raster split stuff like Starray etc non overlaid parallax even an ST/Amstrad can manage)
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Sure, there's plenty of game styles that aga could cope with if using a higher resolution, but I was actually responding to ChaosLords suggestion that a game running in 320x256 isnt pushing aga at all.
It would be nice if there was some games assuming, say, hyopothetically, an '030, some fast ram, and aga as minimum with as much time, effort, and man power as was put into the bigger earlier amiga games, but unfortunately it wasnt really commercially viable, and there's very little collaberation between remaining developers to be able to produce many elaborate homebrew games (ie. games beyond the scope of 1 or 2 people).
Bit of a shame, as the enthusiasm is still there by quite a few people.
p.s. C64 actually can do starglider2 :) (check c64gtw :) Probably shouldve checked 1st, but Im pretty sure my memory isnt playing tricks on me and there actually was a demo there)
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Also, hires interlace flickered like a pig, so wasn't normally used if you could help it. people used TV's, not flicker free monitors on low end Amiga's back then.
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My point was that PC game in the youtube video (Mini Racing Online), an isometric 8 way scrolling game with tiny sprites of F1 cars has not even been replicated on AGA machines in 18 years.
*cough* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WSDACZhZZM
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*cough* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WSDACZhZZM
Heh, now there's a blast from the past. Havent laid eyes on that game in a long while. Looks a little different to how I remember, especially the cars, which look somewhat more colorful (even compared to aga version).
Either way, I actually preffered the amiga format cover disc version, which was pretty different (to a point it was almost a different game with a few similarities). Me and a friend played the Amiga Format version to death, and were then a little disappointed with the finished game. Was still a decent game, but we never enjoyed it as much as those late night sessions with the demo.
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Heh, now there's a blast from the past. Havent laid eyes on that game in a long while. Looks a little different to how I remember, especially the cars, which look somewhat more colorful (even compared to aga version).
Either way, I actually preffered the amiga format cover disc version, which was pretty different (to a point it was almost a different game with a few similarities). Me and a friend played the Amiga Format version to death, and were then a little disappointed with the finished game. Was still a decent game, but we never enjoyed it as much as those late night sessions with the demo.
but someone trying to 'push hardware to limit' probably won't like the (blitz) basic..