Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: Piru on October 27, 2011, 08:12:46 PM
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I was under the impression that EU would have enforced minimum 2 year warranty period, but it seems not everyone is playing by the book:
Two-year warranty (EU law) (http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-1677034/Two-year-warranty-EU-law.html)
Specifically I find this relevant since it has been confirmed that AmigaONE X1000 warranty period is 1 year (http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=34475&forum=33&start=20&viewmode=flat&order=0#634850).
Is there some sort of mix up here, or is Amigakit or A-Eon going to ignore the EU directive 1999/44/EC?
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I cant speak for the rest of the EU but thats not how it works in the UK.
*edit*
I should say that what i am talking about is described in the article itself.
a-eon can give it a years manufacturers warranty, and the EU directive or sale of goods act gives consumer protection with who you bought the item from (in this case AmigaKit).
Trevor said one year warranty, as he is part of a-eon, and that is all above board.
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I cant speak for the rest of the EU but thats not how it works in the UK.
*edit*
I should say that what i am talking about is described in the article itself.
So uhm, it's up to the customer to realize that the *true* warranty is actually 2 years?
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I was under the impression that EU would have enforced minimum 2 year warranty period, but it seems not everyone is playing by the book:
Two-year warranty (EU law) (http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-1677034/Two-year-warranty-EU-law.html)
Specifically I find this relevant since it has been confirmed that AmigaONE X1000 warranty period is 1 year (http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=34475&forum=33&start=20&viewmode=flat&order=0#634850).
Is there some sort of mix up here, or is Amigakit or A-Eon going to ignore the EU directive 1999/44/EC?
The two years warranty is for the end customer. For Business to Business it's one year. So A-EON gives one year warranty, then it shall be up to distributor to extend the warranty to two years. My company receives very expensive machines that costs thousands of euros from France and the factory gives us only one year warranty. We cover the rest. That's how it works, but you are a software guy and you wouldn't know such details. Just throwing random flames as usual.
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So uhm, it's up to the customer to realize that the *true* warranty is actually 2 years?
with the sales of goods act, you can claim back on an item within 6 year (5 in scotland) of purchase, hitting certain conditions of course. would you say thats better than this EU directive?
not everyone knows all the laws of their country, and im sure there is a local equivalent of consumer advice to help everyone if they are unsure
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The two years warranty is for the end customer. For Business to Business it's one year. So A-EON gives one year warranty, then it shall be up to distributor to extend the warranty to two years.
Okay, so it was a mix up, and the warranty is indeed 2 years.
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So uhm, it's up to the customer to realize that the *true* warranty is actually 2 years?
To be fair, it is fairly common knowledge here in the UK, at least amongst people that buy computer stuff. As others have mentioned in the thread already, warranties offered by the manufacturer of a product to the people distributing it (unless they are the same body, of course) doesn't have to be two years, but the end-user warranty does, which is usually handled by the distributor directly if the manufacturer's warranty doesn't cover the entire duration.
It can be a pain TBH. Depending on the circumstances, you may have to take any warranty issues with the distributor, manufacturer or both. This may or may not be how it works elsewhere in the EU, but it's how it tends to work here.
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I was under the impression that EU would have enforced minimum 2 year warranty period, but it seems not everyone is playing by the book:
Two-year warranty (EU law) (http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-1677034/Two-year-warranty-EU-law.html)
Specifically I find this relevant since it has been confirmed that AmigaONE X1000 warranty period is 1 year (http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=34475&forum=33&start=20&viewmode=flat&order=0#634850).
Is there some sort of mix up here, or is Amigakit or A-Eon going to ignore the EU directive 1999/44/EC?
Acer does the same in Greece, or at least did a year ago I 've checked it.
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Hm wait, so Amigakit should be giving 2 year warranty?
All products are covered by a limited return-to-base warranty; refurbished/pre-owned products are covered for 6 months and new products are covered for 12 months.
source: Conditions Of Sales And Returns (http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/conditions.php)
If I understand things correctly it should be 24 months as Amigakit is the distributor. Correct?
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If I understand things correctly it should be 24 months as Amigakit is the distributor. Correct?
That would be what I'd expect in the absence of a longer manufacturer's warranty.
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That would be what I'd expect in the absence of a longer manufacturer's warranty.
Okay, time to email and ask then.
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Hm wait, so Amigakit should be giving 2 year warranty?
source: Conditions Of Sales And Returns (http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/conditions.php)
If I understand things correctly it should be 24 months as Amigakit is the distributor. Correct?
Actually the Sale of Goods Act allows for up to six years warranty.
If an item purchased would reasonably be expected to last for a period of up to 6 years and doesn't, then you can seek redress from where you bought it.
This may of course explain in part why the X1000 is so expensive. Then again, it may not.
I actually don't think there's anything wrong with the quoted terms and conditions as I assume it is referring to the manufacturer's warranty. This is common practice in the UK, and pretty much nobody has an issue with it.
Oh, and while you're in people's champion mode, you may want to email amazon about their kindle warranty too. It's not a heck of a lot different to amigakit's policy: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/help/customer/display.html/ref=help_search_1-1?ie=UTF8&nodeId=200727720&qid=1319756133&sr=1-1
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Okay, time to email and ask then.
Well, you may need to be quick of you want one before Christmas ;)
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Well, you may need to be quick of you want one before Christmas ;)
Piru is buying an X1000?
:)
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Piru is buying an X1000? :)
Nope (I am a Amigakit customer though).
I think it is quite important, considering how the hardware being new and having a warranty was made such a big deal.
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A one year warranty is a standard statement for lots and lots of electrical goods (see the Kindle mentioned above for a good example - Dell are another good example, giving a one year limited warranty on their computers). However, the full text of these warranties usually includes a line to the essence of only applying to the extent of local law ("your statutory rights are not affected" or something maybe). That is, they offer a one-year warranty except where local laws say otherwise. So, if you live in a country with no warranty laws, you get a one year warranty, but if you live somewhere with a 2 year warranty law such as an EU state, you get the two years.
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A one year warranty is a standard statement for lots and lots of electrical goods (see the Kindle mentioned above for a good example - Dell are another good example, giving a one year limited warranty on their computers).
When I bought my Dell Inspiron, the shop gave me two years warranty, that is handled by Dell's distributor, not by Dell directly. On the other hand, when I ran the Dell Support Center software, it says the warranty is valid until 19th November 2013, which I guess is 3 years from the manufacture date.
(http://www.flixya.com//files-photo/d/r/h/drhirudo2445000.jpg)
Go figure.
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I was under the impression that EU would have enforced minimum 2 year warranty period, but it seems not everyone is playing by the book:
Two-year warranty (EU law) (http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-1677034/Two-year-warranty-EU-law.html)
Specifically I find this relevant since it has been confirmed that AmigaONE X1000 warranty period is 1 year (http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=34475&forum=33&start=20&viewmode=flat&order=0#634850).
Is there some sort of mix up here, or is Amigakit or A-Eon going to ignore the EU directive 1999/44/EC?
I think the *real* question people should ask, is, whether teeny-weeny upstart of a company that obviously relied on pre-payments in the shape of a "beta testing program" for its R&D and early production, would really have the financial means to actually honor a warranty program, should it be some major flaws in the design? Promising is free, actually delivering is not.
Some people cling to the mantra "I won't buy second hand, I will buy new, because then I have a warranty". The funny thing about them is that most of them are the very same people who bought into the *previous* "Amigaone", the one from Eyetech. Not a single flawless Amigaone exists, no matter the model, they are *all* broken by design. And how did Eyetech handle this? Well, the only way they could - They lied and said "there are no problems" (much with the help of AW.net moderation policies of that time) and then they simply left the scene! "Warranty" my a$$!
Some never learn...
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I think the *real* question people should ask, is, whether teeny-weeny upstart of a company that obviously relied on pre-payments in the shape of a "beta testing program" for its R&D and early production, would really have the financial means to actually honor a warranty program, should it be some major flaws in the design? Promising is free, actually delivering is not.
Some people cling to the mantra "I won't buy second hand, I will buy new, because then I have a warranty". The funny thing about them is that most of them are the very same people who bought into the *previous* "Amigaone", the one from Eyetech. Not a single flawless Amigaone exists, no matter the model, they are *all* broken by design. And how did Eyetech handle this? Well, the only way they could - They lied and said "there are no problems" (much with the help of AW.net moderation policies of that time) and then they simply left the scene! "Warranty" my a$$!
Some never learn...
I have never owned an Amiga One. I don't want to buy 2nd hand apple hardware just to test as OS I may not like.
Conflating Eyetech and Aeon is also unhelpful. One scenario is fact, the other hypothetical.
Thanks to jus quaesitum tertio, much of the financial cost of any support should be borne buy their partners Varysis and the contract manufacturers.
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@drHirudo
Yeah, I think there's a mixture of the various statements in the thread - the business-to-business thing, the EU-specific laws and the standard limited warranty statement. It would be normal for the distributor to tell you 2 years since they're local, however Dell have on their website that a standard warranty is 12 months and a 3-year warranty is an optional extra...
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@drHirudo
Yeah, I think there's a mixture of the various statements in the thread - the business-to-business thing, the EU-specific laws and the standard limited warranty statement. It would be normal for the distributor to tell you 2 years since they're local, however Dell have on their website that a standard warranty is 12 months and a 3-year warranty is an optional extra...
We have manufacturers that offer only 6 months warranty to their products. But because the EU regulation forces us to do two years warranty, we cover the remaining 1,5 years of warranty by us. Well, if you think the customer is the winner in this case, you are wrong!
All the distributors who have to cover the extra warranty time with repairs by themselves, include that extra expense in the cost of the product. So the customer is the loser in the case, in fact every customer, because he pays for the extra warranty that he may never has to use. Some distributors of for example HP offered us 5-years extended warranty for printers at extra charge. You can have even 10 years warranty if you want to spend extra for something that you may not need at all. I think two years is pretty okay and the directive is right. But probably AmigaKit wants the X1000 price to be as low as possible, so they offer more limited warranty. I am not sure, probably some representative of them can tell us.
Most of the time the warranty period speaks for itself. If the manufacturer is not scared to offer 2-3 years warranty, like in may case with the Inspiron (probably the high end products) then it shall speak that the product is monitored under better QA department.
On the contrary, the AmigaOne X1000 is developed by a start-up company that as shown on some of the pictures have QA department of only one person, who is probably doing this part time. No wonder they can not offer extended warranty period.
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We have manufacturers that offer only 6 months warranty to their products. But because the EU regulation forces us to do two years warranty, we cover the remaining 1,5 years of warranty by us. Well, if you think the customer is the winner in this case, you are wrong!
All the distributors who have to cover the extra warranty time with repairs by themselves, include that extra expense in the cost of the product. So the customer is the loser in the case, in fact every customer, because he pays for the extra warranty that he may never has to use. Some distributors of for example HP offered us 5-years extended warranty for printers at extra charge. You can have even 10 years warranty if you want to spend extra for something that you may not need at all. I think two years is pretty okay and the directive is right. But probably AmigaKit wants the X1000 price to be as low as possible, so they offer more limited warranty. I am not sure, probably some representative of them can tell us.
Most of the time the warranty period speaks for itself. If the manufacturer is not scared to offer 2-3 years warranty, like in may case with the Inspiron (probably the high end products) then it shall speak that the product is monitored under better QA department.
On the contrary, the AmigaOne X1000 is developed by a start-up company that as shown on some of the pictures have QA department of only one person, who is probably doing this part time. No wonder they can not offer extended warranty period.
When I purchased my desktop in 2005, Dell gave me a 1 year warranty.
1 year to the day, they called me up offering to extend the warranty for another year for £60 (if I recall correctly). I declined, explaining I would repair any problems myself.
The machine still operates fine.
In fact virtually everything I have ever bought operates fine for years and years after the warranty, as I look after it and never abuse it.
What all this doesn't explain is why Piru has seen fit to take issue with a very small company's terms and conditions, when in fact they are virtually identical to some of the largest corporations on earth.
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doesn't explain
Let me try to spell it out for you then:
- This is a highly expensive piece of HW, at least $3000. I'd think that the customers deserve to know that if the HW fries 13 months into their ownership they actually don't have to spend another $3000 to get a new one.
- Big deal was made of the fact that this is new hardware that has guarantee (unlike some 2nd hand HW). So the question of how long the guarantee period will be is quite relevant.
If someone is stupid enough not to use exercise their consumer rights that is of course their own problem. Yet, I find it somewhat difficult to understand why there seems to be some resistance to these kind of questions.
You seem to have awfully short memory regarding these things. You've already forgotten that caring for the consumer is one of my favorite subjects.
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What all this doesn't explain is why Piru has seen fit to take issue with a very small company's terms and conditions, when in fact they are virtually identical to some of the largest corporations on earth.
As he said, he cares for the customers, because he thinks they are babies that can't take the care for themselves on their own. So any person who has $3000 to spend on his hobby is not mature enough to read that the warranty is one year.
Oh well, he must jump to Dell and Apple! as well in this case - they are criminals in his books (btw Apple are criminals for stopping producing PPC hardware too).
It would be better if AmigaKit offers extended warranty for people who are willing to pay extra for it, so Piru (who is not going to buy AmigaOne X1000 anyway) can sleep well.
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I'm not aware of any electrical companies in the UK offering any more than 12 moths as standard including Apple, I know my iPhone 4 was purchased last October and is already out of warranty.
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Funny how OS4 users feel threatened by someone questioning if their rights are protected.
I remember back when the Eyetech AmigaOnes were failing left and right many A1 owners refused to call in their warranty because they felt it would be a liability to Eyetech! Never mind that Eyetech wasn't honoring warranties in the first place.
So A-eon is safe, Amikit is safe - no X1000 user would call in a warranty repair so it doesn't matter how long the warranty period is or if it even exists.
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Guys, let's stop comparing Eyetech/MAI boards to Aeon/Varisys boards in terms of design credibility, reliability, etc.
Back in 2005 at FTF, Freescale dev board designers didn't know who MAI were. Now, what is the industry reputation of Varisys? Is it the same as MAI? Or different? These are the two board designers, not Eyetech and Aeon. Aeon may be making a feature list or spec list, but they aren't doing schematics or layout, so it's not right to suggest the X1000 is being made by amateurs as a first project.
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Okay, time to email and ask then.
Response from Amigakit:
In the UK we adhere to the Sales Of Goods Act which goes further with consumer rights than under EU legislation. In some cases if the item can be
independently proved as having a manufacturer defect and it exceeds the standard warranty period then retailers are oblidged to repair the item out of
warranty up to a period of six years after purchase date. This is balanced against reasonable wear and tear of using the product and does not include
product abuse or cosmetic damage.
Hope this helps.
I think this settles the issue.
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Was just going to say, not read whole thread, that EU cover 5 years if manufactures fault can be proved to be the problem, rather than wear and tear. ard to prove 4 years in. Though not so much with electorincs.
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Response from Amigakit:
I think this settles the issue.
Piru, there was no issue.
I already advised that SOGA exceeds the European standard.
It would be pretty foolish to operate in the UK and not comply with SOGA. Of course some do, but they are fly by night operations and normally operate out of market stalls, not internet presences such as AEON, Varysis, and of course Amigakit.
Your customer focus is laudable, but as has already been stated it is somewhat misplaced. Anyone prepared to shell out $3000 on a machine should be capable of investigating this themselves, and perhaps have the means to repair it through other channels anyway.
To a bystander it looks like petty nit-picking, even if that is not you motivation.
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It difficult to not see this thread as an attack on the X1000, but I will try,
to me if I end up getting an X1000 a 1 year warranty will be good enough as I know even before buying the machine there is a risk of even say Os4 support being dropped for it (unlikly) but could happen if sales are dreadful. But one thing that did reassure me buying the X1000 is that it was being sold by AmigaKit not A-eon, I know that sounds bad, but I think Trevor and Co are well aware of what happened in the past with the AmigaONE, and I think the fact that Amigakit has been in the market for a very long time and very involved in the community (I suppose you could say Eyetech was uptill A1) but I just don't see it happing that they would shut up shop and move on if there is major screw up with X1000 they most likely do what they can to fix the problem.
Plus your forgetting if it did screw up then that would not only be the end of A-eon, but most likely Amigakit and Hyperion for screwing with the Amiga community (you could say again, but I think Eyetech did most of the mess), which I just really dont see happing and beta testers have had the board for a few months and Varisys for around 5 months so if their no problems on these systems they should'nt be on the final version sent out to (stupid, idot, silly, morons) customers like myslef.
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I will now await Piru to post on any new hardware announcement if they dont specify the warranty length. i shall ignore the Ares 2011 news item.