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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Software Issues and Discussion => Topic started by: nicholas on October 06, 2011, 04:52:24 PM

Title: Emulator for NeXT Step?
Post by: nicholas on October 06, 2011, 04:52:24 PM
Anyone know of an emulator that would run the old 68k version of NextStep?
Title: Re: Steve Jobs passed away!
Post by: Karlos on October 06, 2011, 04:56:53 PM
Quote from: nicholas;662699
Anyone know of an emulator that would run the old 68k version of NextStep?


You'd probably have to write one. I'd suggest paravirtualization would be the way to go, if you were going to run it on real 68K amiga hardware because as sure as MacOS needs the lower 4K, NeXT will probably want some absolute address range mapped that AmigaOS wants.

However, beyond any guest patches, the 68010+ meets the Popek & Goldberg requirements for hardware virtualization, so you can get away with ShapeShifter style "emulation", or virtualization as it's called in current parlance ;)
Title: Re: Steve Jobs passed away!
Post by: nicholas on October 06, 2011, 05:08:44 PM
Quote from: Karlos;662701
You'd probably have to write one. I'd suggest paravirtualization would be the way to go, if you were going to run it on real 68K amiga hardware because as sure as MacOS needs the lower 4K, NeXT will probably want some absolute address range mapped that AmigaOS wants.

However, beyond any guest patches, the 68010+ meets the Popek & Goldberg requirements for hardware virtualization, so you can get away with ShapeShifter style "emulation", or virtualization as it's called in current parlance ;)


I found one. :)

http://www.emaculation.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=37305&sid=c3937ee93b39270ad36fe5e12f0b4257
Title: Re: Steve Jobs passed away!
Post by: Karlos on October 06, 2011, 05:22:13 PM
I moved these posts to a new thread. They seemed a bit OT...
Title: Re: Emulator for NeXT Step?
Post by: bloodline on October 06, 2011, 06:49:43 PM
More to the point can you still get 68k NeXTStep?!?
Title: Re: Emulator for NeXT Step?
Post by: jorkany on October 06, 2011, 07:12:13 PM
Quote from: bloodline;662719
More to the point can you still get 68k NeXTStep?!?


http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-Software-NeXTSTEP-3-2-CD-/150671533837?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2314b9270d

Gotta love software that comes with a 3.5" floppy "CD-ROM Installation Disk"
Title: Re: Emulator for NeXT Step?
Post by: amigasociety on October 06, 2011, 07:39:28 PM
Quote from: bloodline;662719
More to the point can you still get 68k NeXTStep?!?


Black Hole Inc who still sells used NeXT gear was given permission by Apple to sell burned copies of both NeXTSTEP 3.3 and OpenSTEP 4.x to buyers.  I think he charges $50 for either one.

TJ
Title: Re: Emulator for NeXT Step?
Post by: amigasociety on October 06, 2011, 07:44:35 PM
And since I am a NeXT junkie, here is a short video of my NeXTcube Dual Dimension driving 2 large 21" displays running NeXTSTEP 3.3 and playing an MP3.

Fun stuff.  Still digg NeXTSTEP myself.

Enjoy.

tj

Little dark but hey, not a pro video guy and my room is ultra dark it seems.  :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dj7_G6rabd4
Title: Re: Emulator for NeXT Step?
Post by: B00tDisk on October 06, 2011, 08:02:24 PM
Hmm, I wonder if there's a MESS driver for NeXT systems.

More to the point, I wonder if you could shoehorn it onto an appropriate 68k Amiga and get results like you get with Mac emulation.
Title: Re: Emulator for NeXT Step?
Post by: nicholas on October 06, 2011, 10:43:01 PM
Quote from: bloodline;662719
More to the point can you still get 68k NeXTStep?!?


You can get EVERYTHING on the internets Matt!
Title: Re: Emulator for NeXT Step?
Post by: bloodline on October 06, 2011, 10:47:26 PM
Quote from: nicholas;662762
You can get EVERYTHING on the internets Matt!
Yeah, I know it! I wish I had time for this stuff anymore :(

Might just compile GNUStep for 68k.... ;)
Title: Re: Emulator for NeXT Step?
Post by: nicholas on October 06, 2011, 11:36:31 PM
Quote from: bloodline;662765
Yeah, I know it! I wish I had time for this stuff anymore :(

Might just compile GNUStep for 68k.... ;)


I reckon GNUStep+Windowmaker would probably be quite nippy on 68k NetBSD. :)
Title: Re: Emulator for NeXT Step?
Post by: Digiman on October 07, 2011, 01:13:16 AM
Quote from: amigasociety;662727
Black Hole Inc who still sells used NeXT gear was given permission by Apple to sell burned copies of both NeXTSTEP 3.3 and OpenSTEP 4.x to buyers.  I think he charges $50 for either one.

TJ

erm unless $40 goes to Apple that company can get stuffed, costs $2 to do CD,label and DVD covers. >$8 is a joke for making CD-Rs IMO

time to seek torrents.....

Intel x86 version of Open Step must be still be somewhere. It's like AROS for Next lovers!
Title: Re: Emulator for NeXT Step?
Post by: amigasociety on October 07, 2011, 02:00:59 AM
Quote from: Digiman;662773
erm unless $40 goes to Apple that company can get stuffed, costs $2 to do CD,label and DVD covers. >$8 is a joke for making CD-Rs IMO

time to seek torrents.....

Intel x86 version of Open Step must be still be somewhere. It's like AROS for Next lovers!


They may send more than just the copies of the CDs but not sure.  Figured I would post what I saw before about them legally selling copies.  :)

TJ
Title: Re: Emulator for NeXT Step?
Post by: Crumb on October 07, 2011, 09:31:33 AM
@amigasociety

what software can you run on NeXT?
Title: Re: Emulator for NeXT Step?
Post by: drHirudo on October 07, 2011, 09:50:17 AM
Quote from: Crumb;662793
@amigasociety

what software can you run on NeXT?


This first web browser evaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar?
Title: Re: Emulator for NeXT Step?
Post by: bloodline on October 07, 2011, 10:31:30 AM
As A.org's biggest Objective-C fan, I'm intrigued to play with NeXTStep's 68k beginnings :)
Title: Re: Emulator for NeXT Step?
Post by: jj on October 07, 2011, 11:01:12 AM
Im pretty sure you mean only fan :)
Title: Re: Emulator for NeXT Step?
Post by: bloodline on October 07, 2011, 11:06:51 AM
Quote from: JJ;662797
Im pretty sure you mean only fan :)
Lol, my statement still stands ;)
Title: Re: Emulator for NeXT Step?
Post by: jj on October 07, 2011, 12:53:18 PM
Actually a work colleague of mine is developing apps for iPhone and he loves oBj c.
 
I also recently caved in and bought with cash money an iPhone 4 , yes I know.....
Title: Re: Emulator for NeXT Step?
Post by: nicholas on October 07, 2011, 01:09:44 PM
Quote from: JJ;662808
Actually a work colleague of mine is developing apps for iPhone and he loves oBj c.
 
I also recently caved in and bought with cash money an iPhone 4 , yes I know.....


Be careful, I heard that incorrectly holding an iPhone 4 can make your wrist go limp or summat. ;)
Title: Re: Emulator for NeXT Step?
Post by: bloodline on October 07, 2011, 01:27:41 PM
Quote from: JJ;662808
Actually a work colleague of mine is developing apps for iPhone and he loves oBj c.
 
I also recently caved in and bought with cash money an iPhone 4 , yes I know.....
I'm sitting in stunned silence... Have you tried iOS5 yet? It really is much better than iOS4!
Title: Re: Emulator for NeXT Step?
Post by: amigasociety on October 07, 2011, 04:51:43 PM
Quote from: Crumb;662793
@amigasociety

what software can you run on NeXT?


Lotus Improv (awesome), Adobe Illustrator, Pages, PasteUP, FrameMaker, Virtuoso, to name a few.  Plus I really like the OS in general, easy to use, and may even like it more than OS X.  :)

NeXTSTEP seemed to be doing things Internet wise and communication wise well before most other platforms started doing it.  It was really ahead of its time (IMHO) for net communications over most other platforms of the day.

But yes, there are some cool old apps that are still very usable today on NeXTSTEP.  

tj
Title: Re: Emulator for NeXT Step?
Post by: Digiman on October 07, 2011, 05:24:29 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j02b8Fuz73A

Superior to WinBlows 7 in office environment IMHO

Would be great if someone could make a HD image of 68k NEXTSTEP 3.3 for 030+ AGA Amigas.
Title: Re: Emulator for NeXT Step?
Post by: vidarh on October 07, 2011, 07:22:52 PM
Quote from: amigasociety;662834

But yes, there are some cool old apps that are still very usable today on NeXTSTEP.  


For the mathematically inclined, Mathematica actually launched on NeXT. It was Steve Jobs that convinced Wolfram to use the name Mathematica, in fact.
Title: Re: Emulator for NeXT Step?
Post by: jj on October 10, 2011, 03:59:56 PM
Quote from: bloodline;662813
I'm sitting in stunned silence... Have you tried iOS5 yet? It really is much better than iOS4!

 
Not yet, out on the 12th isnt it.  My friend has it as he is a dev, but not had a chance to look at it.  
 
What do you think, seems to borrow from othe os,  notification bar from android, iphone messages from crackberry
Title: Re: Emulator for NeXT Step?
Post by: Crumb on October 10, 2011, 04:30:24 PM
Quote from: amigasociety;662834
Lotus Improv (awesome), Adobe Illustrator, Pages, PasteUP, FrameMaker, Virtuoso, to name a few.  Plus I really like the OS in general, easy to use, and may even like it more than OS X.  :)

NeXTSTEP seemed to be doing things Internet wise and communication wise well before most other platforms started doing it.  It was really ahead of its time (IMHO) for net communications over most other platforms of the day.

But yes, there are some cool old apps that are still very usable today on NeXTSTEP.  

tj


Depending on how it used the DSP it may be feasible on Amigas with Delfina.
Title: Re: Emulator for NeXT Step?
Post by: bloodline on October 10, 2011, 04:38:03 PM
Quote from: JJ;663110
Not yet, out on the 12th isnt it.  My friend has it as he is a dev, but not had a chance to look at it.  
 
What do you think, seems to borrow from othe os,  notification bar from android, iphone messages from crackberry
Notifications was something that I really liked on Android (though I think Android copied it from WebOS), but apple have combined it with their push system to create a very elegant information feed system. I'm very pleased with this feature!

Yes, the iMessage is taken directly from other IM systems (though it is transparently handled with your texts), really it was a missing feature of the old versions of the OS rather than a great new feature of iOS5 :)
Title: Re: Emulator for NeXT Step?
Post by: adolescent on October 10, 2011, 06:32:16 PM
Quote from: vidarh;662860
For the mathematically inclined, Mathematica actually launched on NeXT. It was Steve Jobs that convinced Wolfram to use the name Mathematica, in fact.


In fact, Mathematica was actually launched on the Mac. :)
Title: Re: Emulator for NeXT Step?
Post by: jj on October 10, 2011, 08:44:51 PM
what else we got ?  fm radio yet , or is that 2 year old rumour just that
Title: Re: Emulator for NeXT Step?
Post by: bloodline on October 10, 2011, 09:16:58 PM
Quote from: JJ;663155
what else we got ?  fm radio yet , or is that 2 year old rumour just that
No chance of a Radio, Apple don't ever add aged technology... It's a bit annoying at first, but you get used to it. But iOS5 does give you a healthy speed up :)
Title: Re: Emulator for NeXT Step?
Post by: nicholas on October 10, 2011, 09:22:26 PM
Quote from: bloodline;663117
Notifications was something that I really liked on Android (though I think Android copied it from WebOS)


Doesn't Android pre-date WebOS?
Title: Re: Emulator for NeXT Step?
Post by: bloodline on October 10, 2011, 09:30:59 PM
Quote from: nicholas;663161
Doesn't Android pre-date WebOS?


Android yes, notifications no (as far as I can remember). I had a Nexus One for a few weeks to test it out and I don't remember notifications.
Title: Re: Emulator for NeXT Step?
Post by: nicholas on October 10, 2011, 10:16:41 PM
Quote from: bloodline;663162
Android yes, notifications no (as far as I can remember). I had a Nexus One for a few weeks to test it out and I don't remember notifications.


I've only used Android since 2.1 which had them, can't say whether 1.5/1.6 did or not though.
Title: Re: Emulator for NeXT Step?
Post by: esc on October 11, 2011, 12:36:38 AM
Quote from: bloodline;663160
No chance of a Radio, Apple don't ever add aged technology... It's a bit annoying at first, but you get used to it. But iOS5 does give you a healthy speed up :)

Additionally, I can tell you from the perspective of a radio / rf theory guy...that you simply need a decent sized anteanna to listen to FM radio well.  And it's all line-of-sight, so a tiny little antennae hidden inside a cell phone and you're inside a building, it just won't work well.  Most of the cell phones that have been reviewed that include FM receivers can contest to that.

Also, we may be running out of room to place antennae components :)
Title: Re: Emulator for NeXT Step?
Post by: Vlabguy1 on October 11, 2011, 01:27:38 AM
Quote from: amigasociety;662728
And since I am a NeXT junkie, here is a short video of my NeXTcube Dual Dimension driving 2 large 21" displays running NeXTSTEP 3.3 and playing an MP3.

Fun stuff.  Still digg NeXTSTEP myself.

Enjoy.

tj

Little dark but hey, not a pro video guy and my room is ultra dark it seems.  :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dj7_G6rabd4



Is there a web browser for the NeXT ??

Rich
ny
Title: Re: Emulator for NeXT Step?
Post by: amigasociety on October 11, 2011, 01:36:59 AM
Quote from: Vlabguy1;663183
Is there a web browser for the NeXT ??

Rich
ny


Yes, Omniweb was the biggie there.  I actually browse websites (slowly) with it on my Cube when I use it.  Very outdated but can do some of the basics like get me on nextcomputers.org so I can download apps, etc...

Omniweb went on to be an OS X browser for a while on Macs since NeXTSTEP/OPENSTEP basically became OS X.

TJ
Title: Re: Emulator for NeXT Step?
Post by: Vlabguy1 on October 11, 2011, 01:41:44 AM
TJ,

Is the Turbo Cube the macdaddy of the NeXT computers?  And do you have to use
a NeXT monitor?

Rich
ny
Title: Re: Emulator for NeXT Step?
Post by: amigasociety on October 11, 2011, 01:55:40 AM
Quote from: Vlabguy1;663186
TJ,

Is the Turbo Cube the macdaddy of the NeXT computers?  And do you have to use
a NeXT monitor?

Rich
ny


NeXTcube Turbo with 1,2, or 3 NeXTdimension boards in it would be the Mac-daddy!  I need color so have to have those.  I have 2 NeXTdimensions in mine running two stock NeXT 21" CRT displays.

With the proper cable (someone makes them on NeXT forums I think), you can connect to non NeXT VGA displays.

I like to run 3 displays on mine.  The stock 17" Mono and then two NeXT 21" color.

TJ

Like this:
(http://gallery.me.com/macsociety/100173/DSCF3748/web.jpg)
Title: Re: Emulator for NeXT Step?
Post by: LoadWB on October 11, 2011, 02:30:26 AM
Quote from: esc;663178
Additionally, I can tell you from the perspective of a radio / rf theory guy...that you simply need a decent sized anteanna to listen to FM radio well.  And it's all line-of-sight, so a tiny little antennae hidden inside a cell phone and you're inside a building, it just won't work well.  Most of the cell phones that have been reviewed that include FM receivers can contest to that.

Also, we may be running out of room to place antennae components :)

My Sony Ericsson phones use the headphones as an antennae for the FM radio.  Works pretty well.
Title: Re: Emulator for NeXT Step?
Post by: psxphill on October 11, 2011, 08:09:43 AM
Quote from: esc;663178
Most of the cell phones that have been reviewed that include FM receivers can contest to that.

My old phone also uses the headphone cord as an antenna. I thought that was how they all did it.
Title: Re: Emulator for NeXT Step?
Post by: jj on October 11, 2011, 08:30:51 AM
You would hope.  My nokia N900 used the bluetooth as a recevier and the headphones as an arieal.
 
It is anooying because I often want to listen to the radio in work, 500mb data allowance is not enough to use internet streaming.
Title: Re: Emulator for NeXT Step?
Post by: bloodline on October 11, 2011, 08:38:50 AM
Quote from: JJ;663211
You would hope.  My nokia N900 used the bluetooth as a recevier and the headphones as an arieal.
 
It is anooying because I often want to listen to the radio in work, 500mb data allowance is not enough to use internet streaming.
Hmmm, I didn't think of that... I'm on an unlimited data plan so I forget about people on capped plans and without WiFi :-/ I'm also not keen on any commercial radio stations so will d/l and sync podcasts with music and chat that I like rather than use radio... Is that and option for you?
Title: Re: Emulator for NeXT Step?
Post by: jj on October 11, 2011, 10:45:55 AM
I do already sync a lot of podcasts, but there are occasions when radio would be good.
 
Yeah I wish I hadn't gone with vodafone. Three were much better.
 
I still go awhie to go on my contract. I gave my Nokia N900 to the wife. I broke my Creative Zen so needed a new mp3 player. Had an 8gb third gen ipod kicking around but not enough to replace my 60 gb creative. So though way as well buy an iphone rather than a 4th gen ipod.
 
Sorry Thread for the hijack
Title: Re: Emulator for NeXT Step?
Post by: nicholas on December 09, 2011, 11:04:45 PM
Quote from: bloodline;663117
Notifications was something that I really liked on Android (though I think Android copied it from WebOS)
Quote from: nicholas;663161
Doesn't Android pre-date WebOS?
Quote from: bloodline;663162
Android yes, notifications no (as far as I can remember). I had a Nexus One for a few weeks to test it out and I don't remember notifications.
 
Quote
The pull-down notification window. Though these early phones clearly weren't without their flaws, it was almost universally acknowledged that Android nailed the notification system on day one — it would take iOS another three years before launching a design as effective at triaging messages and alerts coming from users' ever-growing collection of mobile apps. The secret was in the G1's unique status bar, which could be dragged downward to reveal every notification in a single list: text messages, voicemails, alarms, and so on. The fundamental concept lives on (in a refined form) even in version 4.0 today.
http://www.theverge.com/2011/12/7/2585779/android-history
Title: Re: Emulator for NeXT Step?
Post by: bloodline on December 09, 2011, 11:17:54 PM
Quote from: nicholas;670928
http://www.theverge.com/2011/12/7/2585779/android-history


I saw that this morning too :) looks like I was wrong, still I do like notifications and freely acknowledge their pre Apple history!