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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: freqmax on September 24, 2011, 04:34:37 AM
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With basis in the Amiga 550 (http://amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=59213) thread. Is there any interest in replacement motherboards for Amiga computers, and how should they be designed?
There are three main ways of doing this:
* Exact replication of the original, requires a supply of original chips (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_Amiga_chipset) like Agnus, Paula, Denise. And what board revision to model after?
* Same external board connectors as the original, but using FPGA:s (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field-programmable_gate_array) to run it.
* Accelerated with high performance Motorola or PowerPC processors. Software compatibility may be an issue.
And what Amiga model and board revision models should be used?
The main idea is to be able to open the chassi, and replace a possible battery acid compromised or physically broken board with a newly made one. It should be mentioned that PCB area is at a premium ;)
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It wouldn't break my heart to see an FPGA agnus replacement that could address more than 2mb chip to do more in DPaint (the only painting/drawing app I ever, ever "mastered"), so that I'd never get those dreaded "Derp you're out of Chip RAM!" messages (or when playing large MOD files, or for moving bigger textures around in FPS's on the Amiga - yes I like them there too)...
I wonder if it would be fun to pin some electronics on my degree work, give it a stab...hmm...
Ahem, anyway. A soft 68k core running at some insane clock-speed would be a must. PowerPC based Amigas do zip for me.
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I think FPGAs is the only long term option.
I guess in the end, you are just trying to fit something like a minimig unto a board.
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Realistically, FPGA is the only way to go unless you are using the new board to replace an existing non working one that has working donor chips...
For me, as someone with no soldering/de-soldering skills, I'd be more likely to invest on a board I can simply install in a case...
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I think we must turn the page of OCS/ECS with AGA only now...
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A cost reduction move would be to produce a single layer base board that provides external ports etc, and then a socket inside where a small board can be fitted.
The original chips can be replicated with FPGA:s on chip-per-chip basis, at a large cost.
Both ideas would use up considerable space. Meaning original add-on hardware may be impossible to fit.
@Cosmos, There's lot's of bit-banging software which is OCS/ECS only, I suspect.
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@Cosmos, There's lot's of bit-banging software which is OCS/ECS only, I suspect.
I'm not sure there is that much...
We always use to think so, but once we got the degrader software, there wasn't much that we couldn't run on our A1200's as long as we re-kicked 1.3 first.
I'm sure there's some (Dragon's Lair hasn't worked for me..), but I'm thinking it might be more of a kickstart issue in general.
If this is an expensive project tho, it won't float.
Oh, there will be some takers, like there were for the GBA1000, but in general, if it's much less expensive to buy another 500 or 1200, then a lot of us hobbiests will do that...
I've spent a fair amount on my 1200, but that was over time. Piece by piece. If 4 years ago, someone had offered me a system like I have now for anywhere near what I've paid in one payment??? No way I would have done it..
desiv
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I'm not sure there is that much...
We always use to think so, but once we got the degrader software, there wasn't much that we couldn't run on our A1200's as long as we re-kicked 1.3 first
We have the great WHDLoad team for some banging-OCS/ECS-games...
And, we must turn the page of older Kickstart than 3.1 (or 3.9) too !
Why ? Because with my Blog, I'm talking with users every days, they think AmigaOS is becoming over the years too much complicated... So, only one Kick now, not more !
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With basis in the Amiga 550 (http://amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=59213) thread. Is there any interest in replacement motherboards for Amiga computers, and how should they be designed?
There are three main ways of doing this:
* Exact replication of the original, requires a supply of original chips (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_Amiga_chipset) like Agnus, Paula, Denise. And what board revision to model after?
* Same external board connectors as the original, but using FPGA:s (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field-programmable_gate_array) to run it.
* Accelerated with high performance Motorola or PowerPC processors. Software compatibility may be an issue.
And what Amiga model and board revision models should be used?
The main idea is to be able to open the chassi, and replace a possible battery acid compromised or physically broken board with a newly made one. It should be mentioned that PCB area is at a premium ;)
I think this is a good idea for replacing dying, or dead Classic A500, A600 & A1200 motherboards with new FPGA designs that are better than the originals. Something like the FPGA Arcade Replay Board with or without the proposed 68060 daughter-card, extra memory, Ethernet & USB ports, but in a form factor to better fit into the original cases and also able to use the original keyboards.
I could see such a trio of designs (or better, one design that would work in all three cases) becoming quite popular in the future as original hardware starts to fail, or for people that just want to upgrade to the new features.
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I seem to be the only one that wants exact replacement.
I have a ton of hardware and software I want to continue using.
(ie toaster, flyer, etc)
Also, we need new accelerators (060)!!!
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in the future as original hardware starts to fail
Any educated guess when the price point will make the situation of a world without any realistic hardware offers anywhere to occur ?
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I think that nothing can beat FPGAs... They are faster, cheaper, programmable and, most of all, available...
Look at the Replay: it already is what most other projects aim to be.
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I think that nothing can beat FPGAs... They are faster, cheaper, programmable and, most of all, available...
Look at the Replay: it already is what most other projects aim to be.
What if there was a plug in option for Agnus, has an FPGA to "Replace" the motherboard one (as long as it is SOCKETED), and associated RAM on the add on board to bring CHIP ram up to 8MB ?
Plug it in to an A500, and have it use the extra Ram, and an A500 will have 8MB of ram.. Food for thought.
Now if I only knew VHDL, and had Kick ass PCB development skills. Winnah !!!!!!!!!!.
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Why not 16 MB RAM?, the 68000 can handle that.
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moving bigger textures around in FPS's on the Amiga
Can you name one FPS that actually stores the textures in Chip RAM? :)
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What if there was a plug in option for Agnus, has an FPGA to "Replace" the motherboard one (as long as it is SOCKETED), and associated RAM on the add on board to bring CHIP ram up to 8MB ?
Plug it in to an A500, and have it use the extra Ram, and an A500 will have 8MB of ram.. Food for thought.
How about unplugging the 500 keyboard, plug into the Natami motherboard and toss the 500 motherboard. 68000 and ECS suck! N68070 and Super AGA for the win!
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I think this is a good idea for replacing dying, or dead Classic A500, A600 & A1200 motherboards with new FPGA designs that are better than the originals. Something like the FPGA Arcade Replay Board with or without the proposed 68060 daughter-card, extra memory, Ethernet & USB ports, but in a form factor to better fit into the original cases and also able to use the original keyboards.
Someone already fit the Replay board into an A590 case combined with a harddisk, so it'd surely fit in an A500, A600 or A1200.
Mikej was asked about original keyboards and started looking into what it'd take to get an original keyboard attached to it. IO lines shouldn't be a problem, so no board redesign as there are free lines available on the board - it's likely only a matter of FPGA updates. The only additional thing needed for the Replay really would be a couple of brackets with ports to line up nicely with the backplate.
Personally I'm going to get a Replay board and want to fit it in an A600 or A1200 (don't worry, I'll look around for an already dead one or sell off the motherboard to a worthy home if I have to gut a working one).
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@matthey, Natami hasn't sold any card nor does it fit physically as all external connectors require an PCB that uses the same size and fasteners to work.
@vidarh, No need use up the free I/O pads for keyboard. Just put an microcontroller that talks PS2/USB in one end and "amiga keyboard" in the other.
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The idea of jamming these new FPGA boards into the older legacy Miggy cases is very appealing, and likely the better solution in the long run. Chasing down custom chips isn't terribly difficult if you went the "recreation board" route, but there is still a limited supply of them, even if they won't become scarce anytime soon.
I'm looking very forward to an FPGA solution with Ethernet. I'm not an Amiga gamer in the least, so the stuff like the minimig never appealed to me at all. I'd LOVE to have a more modern daily driver FPGA Amiaga with networking onboard to run my BBS off of.
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The obvious idea is to have a single FPGA board with RAM, large enough to hold the full AGA/OCS/ECS/RTG/CPU cores, and have a I/O connector. This could be produced in large numbers and would be quite small.
Then do smaller production runs of a separate "Connector boards" that match up to the various cases, and these "Connector boards" would hook up to the FPGA board's I/O connector! simple.
This would allow users to replace broken motherboards easily.
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Anyone with these resources and capabilities should make new Amiga-compatible systems, not "just" motherboards (or *in addition* to the motherboards).
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@matthey, Natami hasn't sold any card nor does it fit physically as all external connectors require an PCB that uses the same size and fasteners to work.
Natami has sold some cards but only to Natami developers ;). Sure the ports don't match up. It would be possible to get connectors and cables and make cables to run to the ports. Personally, I think it's rather pointless. I'd rather have the expandability and standard power supply of a mini tower. If I was going to stuff the Natami in a small case, I would make a laptop. A fpga decoder/translator/output for LCD laptop screens would be sweet.
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What if there was a plug in option for Agnus, has an FPGA to "Replace" the motherboard one (as long as it is SOCKETED), and associated RAM on the add on board to bring CHIP ram up to 8MB ?
That would be kickass, but you'd have to add a ham texture mapping engine to the blitter to really make it worthwhile.
It would be interesting to see if you could write to the denise colour palette fast enough to do something there as well.
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I don’t think sourcing the old chips is really a option you can do a small production run maybe.. But if the chips are gone, your left with a new pcb design you spent a lot of hours on doing nothing.
Doing something with power pc cpu’s maybe if you have a design team behind you. It will take many many hours before it will see the light of day. Then you want to do a production run and discovery the board will be priced like the X1000 so only a small group can buy the damm thing. No.
FPGA. There is a wonderful design by yaqube and it’s here NOW. With small modifications this can be your replacement board. Print it on a larger PCB, add some ports a keyboard interface. It is possible that a second FPGA is needed to have enough IO ports and to replicate the legacy ports. But developing this is doable.
Then again why replicating the serial port, the parallel port, this can be a nice space for a USB ports. I think the PCMCIA port is a different story it’s used by many. But it’s a lot of IO stuff.
Ok.. FPGA it’s not the speed of a power pc I know but they are getting faster every year. Speeding up the custom chipset will give it a powerful boost. Even the minimig1 got a super blitter mode. Yaqube board got RTG. In the end the Amiga will be useful again do some browsing play some music, read your mail, watch a movie.
About the super agnus or replacing custom chips with FPGA’s . I think this can be a new thread, it’s a completely different story but a good one. The thing that gave us the giant leap forwards back in the days is now holding us back. We see that new games for example the port of scumm will use the chunky mode of the indivision ECS. Or the new doom that already uses this. Maybe it is possible to create a super Paula giving us 16 Bit multichannel audio. A super fast Agnus, even a RTG Lisa. But like my humble a600 your board will be taken over by al the add-ons and it will be harder and harder to get things stable. Bad chip connections for the clip-over chips etc. We already see unstable A600 accelerators in some cases, now think of making clip-on chips on every chip in you A1200.
Again A new system board, with RTG a large FPGA with enough room for future expansion is the best way to go.
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I seem to be the only one that wants exact replacement.
I have a ton of hardware and software I want to continue using.
(ie toaster, flyer, etc)
Also, we need new accelerators (060)!!!
I don't think you are the only one, I also have several "Big Box" Classic Amigas that I would like to keep using for a long time. A natural progression from using FPGA designs to replace existing 68k mobos in A500, A600 & A1200 cases might be to later make FPGA mobos with slots that can accept A3000/A4000 daughter cards w/Zorro slots for those people that still want to use their old Zorro cards.
IIRC, Zorro slots are impossible to find new these days, so the only way to get them would be to use old Amiga hardware to steal them from.
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The obvious idea is to have a single FPGA board with RAM, large enough to hold the full AGA/OCS/ECS/RTG/CPU cores, and have a I/O connector.
Exactly. And it's not just a great idea because I mentioned something similar in another thread... :)
The more I think about it, if you could design such a board with different daughterboards for the various systems (1000/500/2000/3000/4000/standard PC case?), not only would it be the same main board for all of them, but it makes future upgrades easier..
With FPGAs, the minimig is maxed and you can't just upgrade the FPGA, you need to design a new board.
Same thing with the FPGA Arcade. It's just about maxed, so any "major" speed increases will need a new board with a newer FPGA.
(Not counting expensive daughterboards with actual 060 chips on them.. ;-)
Fine, if you have the same basic connector, when a larger FPGA is affordable, a new run of main boards for those who want them...
Next year, I buy the model with AGA and 50Mhz 68020 version and a 1200 daughterboard for my 1200.
But in a few years, there's a new model, AGA++ with 68060 at 200Mhz, so I upgrade the main board for my 1200.
But I also get a 1000 daughterboard so I can put my older one in the 1000... etc...
And, like the FPGA Arcade, there's no reason to limit it to the Amiga.
Hmmm.....
That might be worth paying more for....
desiv
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Exactly. And it's not just a great idea because I mentioned something similar in another thread... :)
The more I think about it, if you could design such a board with different daughterboards for the various systems (1000/500/2000/3000/4000/standard PC case?), not only would it be the same main board for all of them, but it makes future upgrades easier..
With FPGAs, the minimig is maxed and you can't just upgrade the FPGA, you need to design a new board.
Same thing with the FPGA Arcade. It's just about maxed, so any "major" speed increases will need a new board with a newer FPGA.
(Not counting expensive daughterboards with actual 060 chips on them.. ;-)
Fine, if you have the same basic connector, when a larger FPGA is affordable, a new run of main boards for those who want them...
Next year, I buy the model with AGA and 50Mhz 68020 version and a 1200 daughterboard for my 1200.
But in a few years, there's a new model, AGA++ with 68060 at 200Mhz, so I upgrade the main board for my 1200.
But I also get a 1000 daughterboard so I can put my older one in the 1000... etc...
And, like the FPGA Arcade, there's no reason to limit it to the Amiga.
Hmmm.....
That might be worth paying more for....
desiv
If anyone has already thought of this idea that Bloodline, desiv, myself and others are in support of and you are working on making it a reality, please let me know via PMail, or email. I would be interested in working on such a project and even investing what I could afford into making it a reality if I could be reimbursed through sales of the project boards. Although I disagree with desiv about the FPGA Arcade Replay Board and think it is more capable than he might think. This would be a great follow up project for MikeJ to look into doing.
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Although I disagree with desiv about the FPGA Arcade Replay Board and think it is more capable than he might think..
I must have misstated then..
I think it's very capable, and a great project!!!
It's just that, it will hit a point of no return (as all FPGAs do) and you can't upgrade the FPGA to a faster/larger model, you need a board redesign that uses a newer model...
That's all I was trying to say (badly)..
desiv
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Anybody here, please, upload the A1200/A4000D/CD32 gerber files on my email !
(http://www.a1k.org/forum/showthread.php?t=26609)
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Why not 16 MB RAM?, the 68000 can handle that.
Because the I/O chips have to map into memory somewhere. The 68000 can handle 16 total megs of addressing maximum. If you have 8 megs Fast RAM, 2 megs ChipRAM, that leaves a grand total of 6 megs of ROM and chipset control registers.
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Because the I/O chips have to map into memory somewhere.
So you map away sections of the ram that overlapps with I/O or ROM:s to make use every address. The rest could be used for RTG (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReTargetable_Graphics) with own memory, or ram disk etc.
The best overall setup seems to create a standard sized FPGA board with a standard connection between boards. Then a model (A1000, 500, 1200, 3000 etc) specific board that match external connector placement.
Acceleration can be arranged by using optimized HDL-code (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardware_description_language) for the FPGA as well as feature models that will be even faster. PowerPC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerPC) implementation should be put in sight as a feature project.
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Hello,
I have been toying the idea for 2 years. I have already precisely measured the connector spacing of my A1200. I also reversed engineered the keyboard schematics.
For those who want to measure the connector spacing on their A500 or A600, it is quite easy : use a flatbed scanner to scan the backside of your Amiga PCB and then a tool like Gimp to measure the spacing between connectors.
Regards,
Frederic
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An interesting idea, make an FPGA board shaped like each Amiga motherboard as I take it.
How about this: Use or design some standard module to hold the FPGA(s) themselves, which connect to each such new Amiga replacement motherboard through the same connections of whatever kind it may be. Then each motherboard routes the FPGA pins as needed for that motherboard. Perhaps not all pins are used in each motherboard, such as pins for Zorro2 on A2000 are nothing on A500, but there are enough pins for A3000 or A4000 as well. Perhaps a couple FPGA modules are needed together to fill out enough pins to do everything if A3000/4000 CPU slot is present as well as Zorro and all other connectors. The motherboards get simpler this way, they basically hold connectors, routing between them, level shifting as necessary to the FPGA modules, and whatever PHY type stuff at the connectors. If you need more than one FPGA module, they are all the same thing, not different modules in different places. Each motherboard may have a different configuration to the FPGAs, but the modules don't need to get specialized for anything, for reducing engineering iterations/redundancy. If multiple ones are needed in a machine, some pins will connect them together in a suitable way as needed per motherboard.
And while you're at it, swap ISA slots for 3.3V (or universal if slots can be that way) PCI slots on A2000/3000/4000 and give them an active bridge to be useful.
Would you intend to have CPU slots present, or expect to use softcore 68K? CPU slot makes PowerUP board usage and OS4 Classic possible for machines that take them...
Or, since we're reinventing things, why not turn A500s into A1200s, A2000s into A4000s, etc? Does that go beyond what you want to do, by leaving out people with broken A2000s now not being able to use their A2000 addons, and this is not what you want to do?
And then go crazy, put MXM laptop graphics slots in the keyboard style computers, muxing their outputs with the "Amiga" graphics outputs like some Zorro gfx cards can do (PicassoIV for example), maybe laptop mini-PCI for wifi slot, internal SATA perhaps if chosen FGAs can do that, etc. :)
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I thought someone had redone the Mini-Mig as an Itx standard layout?
Wouldn't this be a much better option?
A new case, a new PSU, a new motherboard with usb, rj45, ps2 ports, scan-doubled vga! Why polute a new motherboard with old hardware like zorro or cpu boards? Seems crazy to buy a new Motherboard to install old unreliable hardware!
What we really need is a proper production run of Amiga keyboards that plug into USB or ps2. This is of greater value for users of mini-mig or the proposed newer FPGA motherboards. I have a few A2000 keyboards with broken cpu's sitting in my cupboard! Its annoying.
Without some new standards how can we bring prices lower for interface hardware like wi-fi, usb or rj45? Amiga network cards and usb cards are getting harder and harder to source :(
Don't get me wrong I love my Amiga's but I would really love a new Amiga in a small tower with associated new keyboard and high precision mouse!
Wish list for me would be :-
A new FPGA based motherboard with PC standard layout (ipx mini-mig?)
4meg chip ram (much better than 2meg as a standard)
8meg fast ram on the mobo
A high clocked 68000 fpga implimentation
Kickstart 3.1
With this type of system I could get back into Amiga graphics and programming.
Az
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Unless we like our original cases, which we do.
desiv
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I thought someone had redone the Mini-Mig as an Itx standard layout?
Az
The FPGAArcade Replay board fits in an ITX case with all IO connections (bar diagnostic serial) in the standard IO window.
/MikeJ
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For those who want to measure the connector spacing on their A500 or A600, it is quite easy : use a flatbed scanner to scan the backside of your Amiga PCB and then a tool like Gimp to measure the spacing between connectors.
One can use a caliper (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caliper) though to replicate the whole board scan+gimp might not be that bad.
How about this: Use or design some standard module to hold the FPGA(s) themselves, which connect to each such new Amiga replacement motherboard through the same connections of whatever kind it may be. Then each motherboard routes the FPGA pins as needed for that motherboard. Perhaps not all pins are used in each motherboard, such as pins for Zorro2 on A2000 are nothing on A500, but there are enough pins for A3000 or A4000 as well. Perhaps a couple FPGA modules are needed together to fill out enough pins to do everything if A3000/4000 CPU slot is present as well as Zorro and all other connectors. The motherboards get simpler this way, they basically hold connectors, routing between them, level shifting as necessary to the FPGA modules, and whatever PHY type stuff at the connectors. If you need more than one FPGA module, they are all the same thing, not different modules in different places. Each motherboard may have a different configuration to the FPGAs, but the modules don't need to get specialized for anything, for reducing engineering iterations/redundancy. If multiple ones are needed in a machine, some pins will connect them together in a suitable way as needed per motherboard.
Yeah some "dumb" baseboard module and standardized sized and slotted FPGA-boards to plugin would be useful. ITX is nice, but won't fit inside an A500, A600, A1200 etc.
And while you're at it, swap ISA slots for 3.3V (or universal if slots can be that way) PCI slots on A2000/3000/4000 and give them an active bridge to be useful.
Better keep to the specifications. ISA is 5 V in all cases, even thoe 3,3 V logic is accepted at input. Any FPGA must tolerate 5 V from ISA cards. And PCI is nice but it is timing tricky and I/O heavy.
Would you intend to have CPU slots present, or expect to use softcore 68K? CPU slot makes PowerUP (http://powerup.amigaworld.de/index.php?lang=en&page=35) board usage and OS4 Classic possible for machines that take them...
Softcore 68k is likely the convenient solution. But CPU slot is possible with FPGA provided you have the I/O connections.
Or, since we're reinventing things, why not turn A500s into A1200s, A2000s into A4000s, etc? Does that go beyond what you want to do, by leaving out people with broken A2000s now not being able to use their A2000 addons, and this is not what you want to do?
By loading the correct image you can downgrade at will.
And then go crazy, put MXM laptop graphics slots in the keyboard style computers, muxing their outputs with the "Amiga" graphics outputs like some Zorro gfx cards can do (PicassoIV for example), maybe laptop mini-PCI for wifi slot, internal SATA perhaps if chosen FGAs can do that, etc. :)
This will likely increase cost in a non-benefitial way. Better to use plain junk PC for such uses.
What we really need is a proper production run of Amiga keyboards that plug into USB or ps2. This is of greater value for users of mini-mig or the proposed newer FPGA motherboards. I have a few A2000 keyboards with broken cpu's sitting in my cupboard! Its annoying.
Producing keyboards is really expensive. I know a larger organisation that did just that, the prices were in the parity of 800 USD/keyboard in larger series. Though maybe there are cheaper ways?, the pcb is cheap, the conductive rubber mat likely too. I think the real cost comes from precision molding many keys. the absolute cheapest is to modify existing keyboards.
Without some new standards how can we bring prices lower for interface hardware like wi-fi, usb or rj45? Amiga network cards and usb cards are getting harder and harder to source :(
Dunno what you mean by "new standards". But these peripherals are easily created with a standard FPGA + standard interface chip if you need one. The catch is writing the Amiga driver.
Don't get me wrong I love my Amiga's but I would really love a new Amiga in a small tower with associated new keyboard and high precision mouse!
FPGA Arcade will do that for you already.
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an A1200 style case that takes a FlexATX motherboard would be nice. then you could make a FlexATX format Super Minimig board to go in it.
Why not let's go the whole hog and remake an entire Amiga?
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Most PC style boards, in particular ATX uses connectors that uses space vertically. And will likely not fit.
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@freqmax: I say A1200 style, I don't necessarily mean exactly the same. There is more than enough vertical height at the back of a A1200 to accomodate a standard ATX I/O aperture of 1.75" by 6.25". A quick measure up yields just over 2.5" of height. There would not be room for PCI cards, though.
Although a form factor of 170x305mm (the height of an ATX board with the width of a Mini-ITX board) would be a better use of space in such a case, and would be compatible with standard ATX cases as well.
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Better keep to the specifications. ISA is 5 V in all cases, even thoe 3,3 V logic is accepted at input. Any FPGA must tolerate 5 V from ISA cards. And PCI is nice but it is timing tricky and I/O heavy.
5V is not that big of a deal.
http://users.ece.gatech.edu/~hamblen/UP3/IDTQS3384AN.pdf
http://www.xilinx.com/support/documentation/application_notes/xapp646.pdf
http://www.altera.com/literature/an/an330.pdf
If the person designing the board can't get PCI timing right, then I wouldn't be very optimistic about the other things either... This would require someone that knows how to do this stuff properly with or without PCI.
And in the big-boxes, consider at least one slot having a PCI to PCI-Express bridge to a x16 plastic slot to hold a modern graphics card, even if it's only a x1 slot electronically running at PCI bus speed. (yes, that bridge chip adds cost)
Though I guess some people might want to continue using brigeboards or Goldengate ISA bridges and their collection of ISA cards. Did they do PCI to allow the user's option of a rear bracket holding EITHER an IDA card or a PCI card? Maybe do both, FPGA pins permitting of course.
http://www.kids-online.net/learn/click/details/sharedpi.html
By loading the correct image you can downgrade at will.
I was thinking more along the lines of putting an A3000/4000 style CPU slot on the A2000 replacement motherboard instead of an A2000 style CPU slot. (or if you're crazy enough and have enough FPGA pins, both) Then it could have a CSPPC card and run OS4 as well as get AGA etc.
This will likely increase cost in a non-benefitial way. Better to use plain junk PC for such uses.
A slot and some wires, should FPGA pins allow? OK, depending on version of MMX slot it'd require a PCI-Express IO capable FPGA. And someone to make a PCI-Express logic to drive it. Or perhaps a PCI to PCI-Express bridge chip from PLX etc. But leave the slot empty and leave it to user to choose to put something there... If I was the designer, I'd consider the possibility of modern graphics card in A500, A600, A1200, A1000 even, as a desirable possibility.
What we really need is a proper production run of Amiga keyboards that plug into USB or ps2.
It'd be easier/cheaper to make the reverse of the adapters allowing standard PC keyboards to work in Classic Amiga motherboards. Then use an existing Classic Amiga keyboard.
Speaking of keyboards/mice, I'd try to design things so that these replacement motherboards can take at least PS/2 with a direct pin adaptor, not to need the special Amiga protocol adapters. Not sure if there is a direct mouse pin adapter that would fit an Amiga mouse port to design toward, may need the special Amiga adaptor to PS/2 mouse, or perhaps a not done before direct pin adaptor can be done and move protocol part into FPGA, cheaper than special protocol adapters we have now? Someone else already provides PS/2 port to USB keyboard/mouse adaptors.
Also, if not an Amiga style accelerator slot, then consider making the motherboard a Com-Express carrier and mux outputs of that with FPGA outputs. (And FPGAs still on their own standard modules to the new motherboards) There's modern PowerPC modules for that standard. While they are not supported in OS4 now, maybe we can get there, and have as modern stuff in our Classic cases as we can get. And motherboard is still a relatively simple PCB doing little more than connections and close-to-port electronics (serial port level shifters, video D/As, analog D/As, etc.)
I just think that if you're going to the trouble to make a replacement for a Classic motherboard, then give it some modern update options where it makes sense to do so. I think that going to this effort and leaving out PCI would be an odd choice.
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I thought someone had redone the Mini-Mig as an Itx standard layout?
Someone did do a v2 Minimig in ITX format and the FPGA Arcade Replay Board is also in ITX format.
Wouldn't this be a much better option?
A new case, a new PSU, a new motherboard with usb, rj45, ps2 ports, scan-doubled vga!
The prototype daughter card for the Replay board has 3 USB ports & Ethernet RJ45 with the base Replay board having PS2 and scan doubled VGA already.
Why polute a new motherboard with old hardware like zorro or cpu boards? Seems crazy to buy a new Motherboard to install old unreliable hardware!
If the FPGA Arcade Replay Board's expansion connector has enough lines to support it, or FPGA motherboard like the Natami MX, or another newer design comes out, that would allow some users that want to use some of their old ZorroII/III cards, Video Slot cards, and possibly even Accelerator Slot cards, why not allow those users to attach a secondary board with those slots so they can build a fully backward compatible Amiga Clone, and the people that have no interest in those slots can ignore buying this secondary slot connector board. Zorro cards, Video Slot cards and Amiga Accelerators are getting old and may fail some day, but many Amiga users (like me) have a large investment in such cards and may wish to continue using them in a newer, faster, more expandable FPGA based motherboard system.
What we really need is a proper production run of Amiga keyboards that plug into USB or ps2. This is of greater value for users of mini-mig or the proposed newer FPGA motherboards. I have a few A2000 keyboards with broken cpu's sitting in my cupboard! Its annoying.
Without some new standards how can we bring prices lower for interface hardware like wi-fi, usb or rj45? Amiga network cards and usb cards are getting harder and harder to source :(
I don't see why you need a new production run of Amiga keyboards when the MiniMig and FPGA Arcade Replay Board (and soon Natami) already support using any off the shelf PS2, or USB keyboard and AmigaKit already sells Amiga branded keyboards? As for Amiga network & USB cards being hard to source, hopefully new drivers will be written to allow use of standard PC USB network dongles. Either that, or like what MikeJ is doing with his Replay Board daughter card that includes an Ethernet RJ45 port, and Natami that will have its own RJ45 Ethernet port on the mobo.
Don't get me wrong I love my Amiga's but I would really love a new Amiga in a small tower with associated new keyboard and high precision mouse!
Wish list for me would be :-
A new FPGA based motherboard with PC standard layout (ipx mini-mig?)
4meg chip ram (much better than 2meg as a standard)
8meg fast ram on the mobo
A high clocked 68000 fpga implimentation
Kickstart 3.1
With this type of system I could get back into Amiga graphics and programming.
Az
I hope that you will get back into Amiga graphics and (specially) programming with what is already available now and not wait for some new system. There are many different options for people that are interested in the Amiga.
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Don't get me wrong I love my Amiga's but I would really love a new Amiga in a small tower with associated new keyboard and high precision mouse!
Wish list for me would be :-
A new FPGA based motherboard with PC standard layout (ipx mini-mig?)
4meg chip ram (much better than 2meg as a standard)
8meg fast ram on the mobo
A high clocked 68000 fpga implimentation
Kickstart 3.1
With this type of system I could get back into Amiga graphics and programming.
An FPGA Arcade for hardware and AROS for software will do this for you with 50 MB RAM. If you can deal with 4 MB RAM in total Minimig can handle this right now.
Any suggestion for a C compiler?
I don't see why you need a new production run of Amiga keyboards when the MiniMig and FPGA Arcade Replay Board (and soon Natami) already support using any off the shelf PS2, or USB keyboard and AmigaKit already sells Amiga branded keyboards?
The closest resemblance of an Amiga keyboard available seems to be an A1200 keyboard (http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=49&products_id=336) that has to be put into a DIY flat box together with a microcontroller to make anything like a detachable keyboard that A2000, A3000, A4000 had. So didn't find any Amiga keyboards there.
And integrated keyboard with the rest of the computer is not a good ergonomic choice..
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Producing keyboards is really expensive. I know a larger organisation that did just that, the prices were in the parity of 800 USD/keyboard in larger series. Though maybe there are cheaper ways?, the pcb is cheap, the conductive rubber mat likely too. I think the real cost comes from precision molding many keys. the absolute cheapest is to modify existing keyboards.
Wow, so expensive !!!
I always wandered why hasn't someone done this already. I guess I know now.
But we actually need only the motherboards, controllers, cables... What else is failing ? We already have the keys and shells.
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If you can make CNC cut metalblocks coated with teflon and put in molten plastic under high pressure you might make your own keys. Make sure they are cured properly and absolutly free of toxic.