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Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: danwood on September 22, 2011, 01:48:05 PM

Title: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: danwood on September 22, 2011, 01:48:05 PM
http://www.commodore-amiga.org/forum/27-commodore-usa/8551-phone-call-with-barry?lang=en#8569

Compared to the $25,000 they'll want for a CUSA "Amiga PC" it's pocket change.
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: jorkany on September 22, 2011, 01:54:26 PM
Well, technically they'll start at only $5000.

When I read that link I really was shocked! There are companies that buy computers at that price point, and if that's CUSA's target market then they should examine the reasons why companies buy those computers. It's not because of feelings of nostalgia.
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: persia on September 22, 2011, 02:10:56 PM
Barry's been hitting the hard stuff.  WTH is he thinking?  Prosumer?  With a brand known for cheapness?  And he wants to sell them US$25K keyboard computers?

Insanity to confuse your competitors is not a good business strategy....
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: tone007 on September 22, 2011, 02:18:02 PM
Quote from: persia;660589
Barry's been hitting the hard stuff.  WTH is he thinking?


Probably something along the lines of, "I've only sold 200 or so of these cheap <$1000 pieces of junk, if I can sell just 200 of these $20,000 pieces of junk we're talking some real money!"
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: Tripitaka on September 22, 2011, 02:18:29 PM
Ohhh.... .Kaayy.......
....they gone loco.
......moving swiftly along.
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: commodorejohn on September 22, 2011, 03:28:44 PM
I used to think Barry was a scammer, now I see he's just completely delusional.
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: eliyahu on September 22, 2011, 03:38:14 PM
@thread

what's wrong with you guys? bazza is a business genius. he sold 100.000s of his C64x.  his products are all over major retailers like best buy.  he's 'living a fairy tale' life.  he flits about on private jets and helicopters, helping americans understand how to create jobs.  he's going to bring the amiga back, smite dell and HP, and deliver the greatest operating system known to mankind, no doubt based on L4 or QNX or something exotic!  read all about it on commodore-amiga.org (http://commodore-amiga.org) -- so the world may know!

he is the messiah!! all bow down at the engineering and commercial genius of bazza!!!

:laughing:

sorry. some of the utter falsehoods that nutter is spewing is absurd. and that randy believes him. :roflmao:

-- eliyahu
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: dammy on September 22, 2011, 04:06:38 PM
Quote from: jorkany;660582
Well, technically they'll start at only $5000.


No, starting is about $2000 (AIO) which is cheaper then what is being offered in multi-core by A-EON.  If you go with bang:buck ratio against A-EON, it's not even close.

Quote
When I read that link I really was shocked! There are companies that buy computers at that price point, and if that's CUSA's target market then they should examine the reasons why companies buy those computers. It's not because of feelings of nostalgia.


What Barry is aiming for with the Commodore Amiga is the professional level.  That means it has to have the gear and software that industry uses as standard.  Yes, multi media is the niche he is aiming for as video production for the web is going to be a long term demand.
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: dammy on September 22, 2011, 04:25:11 PM
Quote from: eliyahu;660605
sorry. some of the utter falsehoods that nutter is spewing is absurd. and that randy believes him. :roflmao:

-- eliyahu


Like you have a clue on what you are talking about.
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: spirantho on September 22, 2011, 04:26:07 PM
Seriouslt: what is C=USA's USP? There'd have to be a really good one to tempt any businesses away from the established brands (Dell, HP etc). The Commodore name means nothing to businesses since the 1970's (ask any IT manager), so what's the plan?

A new company with no proven record has zero chance without a USP, and presumably C=USA realise this.... what is it? The only USP I can see so far is a ridiculous price tag...?
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: commodorejohn on September 22, 2011, 04:26:23 PM
Quote from: dammy;660610
No, starting is about $2000 (AIO) which is cheaper then what is being offered in multi-core by A-EON.  If you go with bang:buck ratio against A-EON, it's not even close.
So you're trying to argue for ultra-high-end commodity hardware on the basis that it's more cost-efficient than an ultra-niche market specialty board? Maybe you can start a program to provide discount snow to underprivileged penguins, while you're at it.
Quote
What Barry is aiming for with the Commodore Amiga is the professional level.  That means it has to have the gear and software that industry uses as standard.  Yes, multi media is the niche he is aiming for as video production for the web is going to be a long term demand.
Yes, he's said as much. What we're wondering about is by what twists and turns of his very unique brand of logic he's arrived at the conclusion that high-end professional graphics workstations are the kind of thing people buy based on nostalgia from a company that can't even figure out how to properly cool a keyboard computer without constant input from end-users.
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: Tripitaka on September 22, 2011, 06:04:18 PM
I must admit that I would be quite happy about all of this if the new "Commodore Amiga" used Silicon Integrated Nanophotonics technology for the chips, Coriolis fans for cooling, MRAM for memory, blueray optical drives, thunderbolt ports .....

...well you get the idea.
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: runequester on September 22, 2011, 06:10:02 PM
25 grand worth of computer

http://www.neweggbusiness.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16859105799
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: TheMud on September 22, 2011, 06:12:48 PM
Hahahaha... Is this guy on drugs ?

Who wants to buy that crap then ? ... Hahahaha... Reality is harsh sometimes but NO ONE and NO COMPANY would buy those things. Think i just wet my pants laughing :')

Anyway ... For his languese he should have a punch in his face. Think his rude !
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: ToddH on September 22, 2011, 06:23:21 PM
One of my other hobbies is home theater and I can tell you now the case they are using is nowhere close to $1000. I looked into buying that exact case for a home theater project and the price I got was somewhere around $100+shipping if I remember correctly. I imagine if bought in larger qualities then the buyer would receive a discount. If he's paying these outrageous prices for parts he's doomed.
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: runequester on September 22, 2011, 06:24:21 PM
Quote from: ToddH;660648
One of my other hobbies is home theater and I can tell you now the case they are using is nowhere close to $1000. I looked into buying that exact case for a home theater project and the price I got was somewhere around $100+shipping if I remember correctly. I imagine if bought in larger qualities then the buyer would receive a discount. If he's paying these outrageous prices for parts he's doomed.


I imagine its less paying 1000 dollars for it, and more charging 1000 dollars for it.
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: Akiko on September 22, 2011, 06:32:05 PM
If somebody really has to purchase a computer with a $25,000 price tag, I imagine they will want to acquire it from a large multinational that offers support and warranty, not some obscure little computer company that will likely fade into oblivion as Commodore Gaming did before.
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: ToddH on September 22, 2011, 06:35:00 PM
Quote from: runequester;660650
I imagine its less paying 1000 dollars for it, and more charging 1000 dollars for it.


Yep, probably right. Don't think this is going to end well for Barry.
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: desiv on September 22, 2011, 06:40:53 PM
I tend to defend C-USA.  Not because I like them or intend to buy them, but because I think the hate tends to be exaggerated..

But $25k?????  Seriously???
And you're calling it an Amiga??  No way...

Call it a Mac IIFX reborn, maybe.  That thing was off the charts price wise when it was released..

desiv
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: Tripitaka on September 22, 2011, 06:41:08 PM
Quote from: runequester;660639
25 grand worth of computer

http://www.neweggbusiness.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16859105799


Yeah, 32 cores in total and 64Gig of RAM, not to mention that having worked with dells rack mounted servers myself I have to say they are a bloody joy for accessibility.

Do CUSA think they can compete with this? No chance.

They need to add something amazing to the mix if they want a bit of this pie and an Amiga sticker on the front just isn't it.
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: runequester on September 22, 2011, 06:45:33 PM
As another point of comparison, a 12 core Mac with 6 gigs of RAM is 5000 it seems.

http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_mac/family/mac_pro?mco=MTcyMTgwNTQ
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: danwood on September 22, 2011, 06:52:24 PM
Quote from: spirantho;660614
The only USP I can see so far is a ridiculous price tag...?

Not much of a USP, Apple have had that one boxed off for at least 15 years.

I think the bigger telling-point here is:

"We are not planning on competing with Dell ,emachine, and the rest....
Commodore Amiga lineup will be geared for prosumer/pro/business-industrial users."

If he doesn't think Dell play in the pro/business markets, he is totally clueless about the landscape of the industry.  Clue Barry... they own it pretty much, you'd be hard pressed to find an office in the world not running Dell gear on all their desks.

Sadly he really does think that companies will be falling over themselves to buy his gear, simply because it has the Commodore or Amiga sticker on the casing, again very out of touch, it is virtually forgotten or seen as a retro brand by most of the world now, it would be taken as seriously as Sinclair or Altair names are today, most people would likely laugh at the notion.

I think reality will hit very hard soon.
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: danwood on September 22, 2011, 06:54:51 PM
Quote from: TheMud;660643


Anyway ... For his languese he should have a punch in his face. Think his rude !


He should certainly ask for a refund from Charm School.
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: Zac67 on September 22, 2011, 07:07:17 PM
Just ordered a complete virtual & redundant server infrastructure (small scale) for ~30k€ yesterday.

What are those guys thinking anyone would do with a system for 25k? Completely bananas.
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: Akiko on September 22, 2011, 08:08:26 PM
Quote from: dammy;660610
No, starting is about $2000 (AIO) which is cheaper then what is being offered in multi-core by A-EON.  If you go with bang:buck ratio against A-EON, it's not even close..

Once the X1000 is released I'm willing to bet if someone decided to sell theirs after say 2-4 years, it will retain much more of it's value than any Commodore branded PC released at the same time. I sold my AmigaOne XE last year for £650 on eBay, I imagine much higher spec PC's from 2005 selling on eBay for next to nothing today.

I think the X1000 will be more than sufficient for running AmigaOS and any applications likely to be available for it in the foreseeable future, and will likely hold much more of it's value when the time comes to upgrade, so in my eyes likely offers much better bang:buck ratio in the long term.
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: spirantho on September 22, 2011, 08:21:51 PM
The difference will be that the A1 won't be obsolete, the C=USA machines will be, because while we're still running our own software on our own OS, the C=USA machine will have to keep up with other Linux/Windows systems. In 5 years, the A1 will still be high-end to us Amiga users, and any x86 box will be considered ancient.
For proof of that you just need to look at the prices of OS4 hardware compared to the equivalent age x86 boxes.
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: vox on September 22, 2011, 09:05:10 PM
Quote from: desiv;660659
I tend to defend C-USA.  Not because I like them or intend to buy them, but because I think the hate tends to be exaggerated..

But $25k?????  Seriously???
And you're calling it an Amiga??  No way...

Call it a Mac IIFX reborn, maybe.  That thing was off the charts price wise when it was released..

desiv


Well, if VICs and basic C64x are their low end, Ultimate C64x medium price now they want to go high end.

However, with all the mind tricks and propaganda of Commodore and Amiga continuation and revival, if it can pull out money for up to $1000 computer,
hardly it can compete to high end market - its no longer going against AmigaOne, Natami etc. retro mania, but against Dell, IBM, high end Apple etc.
Even if budnled with CommodoreOS and Windows 7.

Better if they made A1200 look a like with some affordable AMD CPU and GFX.

But they have the plan of their own.

Such policies will either kill em or make em rich.
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: TheBilgeRat on September 22, 2011, 09:08:30 PM
Now, come on... TO BE FAIR.... you can hit that price point with a 12 core mac pro (what the REAL pros use in video/photo editing) if you simply add EVERY UPGRADE YOU CAN.  Thats 4 512G SSDs raided, twin video cards, extra keyboards, display adapters for the macbook air you'll probably buy with it, etc etc.

It should be CAKE for commodore to walk in and snatch the candy away from the big boys, what with their proven track record and close ties with disney and all.  I bet the next steaming pile to come out of disney studios (tangled, anyone?) will be done on CUSA ameeguhs.
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: commodorejohn on September 22, 2011, 09:11:36 PM
Quote from: vox;660693
Such policies will either kill em or make em rich.
Hint: it sure as hell ain't gonna make 'em rich.

But hey, I've been waiting for a spectacular flameout like this since around the time Barry started getting angry with people for not thinking that renting an office in a strip mall made him Big Cheese in the retrocomputing world.
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: jorkany on September 22, 2011, 09:44:36 PM
Quote from: spirantho;660684
The difference will be that the A1 won't be obsolete, the C=USA machines will be, because while we're still running our own software on our own OS, the C=USA machine will have to keep up with other Linux/Windows systems. In 5 years, the A1 will still be high-end to us Amiga users, and any x86 box will be considered ancient.
For proof of that you just need to look at the prices of OS4 hardware compared to the equivalent age x86 boxes.


Jeez...only in OS4 land is ineffectiveness and obsolescence considered a plus.
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: vox on September 22, 2011, 09:52:33 PM
Quote from: commodorejohn;660697
Hint: it sure as hell ain't gonna make 'em rich.

But hey, I've been waiting for a spectacular flameout like this since around the time Barry started getting angry with people for not thinking that renting an office in a strip mall made him Big Cheese in the retrocomputing world.


Well, they do their math, enjoying their ups and downs but competing in x86 market is harsh thing to do. Commodore64x mania will probably wear out by the next year, so in PeeCee world something new is welcome. We ll se how they will do their job by 2013.

Latest one we can learn (usual with CUSA now) is that it will not be the design presented on website. And big thing will be when we see the most secret OS of all times - CommodoreOS

Hope MorphOS 3.0 and maybe even AmigaOS 4.2 will be out by then as well as some AROS updates to enjoy the real developments.
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: CritAnime on September 22, 2011, 10:01:23 PM
I don't know whats scarier about this who thing. The fact that Barry himself believes that he can just enter the high-end market without so much as an introduction. But that he has other people on that forum thinking it's a great idea selling these things. I want to know who came up with the research saying that he was entering a niche market.

I also want to know who came up the phrase "prosumer" because I want to kick them in the testicles for that one.

I can't work out why Dammy is trying to compare 80's money with todays money on the low-end systems. Isn't the whole point of the low-end Amiga's that they provided a good entry point into the Amiga's. And that they were also affordable to the masses.

======
I mentioned this whole new Amiga pricing thing to a friend of mine in our hospitals IT department. He nearly dropped to the floor laughing. His exact words were "Even at two thousand dollars it best wash the dishes and service me in that way." Needless to say I doubts that we will be getting any of these things.
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: commodorejohn on September 22, 2011, 10:02:12 PM
Quote from: vox;660705
Well, they do their math, enjoying their ups and downs but competing in x86 market is harsh thing to do. Commodore64x mania will probably wear out by the next year, so in PeeCee world something new is welcome. We ll se how they will do their job by 2013.
What mania? The reaction to the C64x outside of the Commodore/Amiga community totalled one brief moment of "huh, really?" when it got its first real publicity in the outside world, followed by a handful of tech-site articles noting that "well, uh, it's a nice case, but it's just a mid-range Atom board in there, so...what's the big deal, again?" Hell, there was as much interest in CUSA generated when Barry theratened to sue OSNews. And we haven't seen the sales numbers (or rather, the real ones, not the dammy ones,) but I guarantee you if it were anything even close to 100,000 there would be a whole lot more crowing from the CUSA sycophants.

It's all but disappeared down the public-interest hole, and considering that by more than a few accounts the end-user experience has consisted of pestering Barry to fix the cooling problems until he stopped pouting and put in another fan, that's probably merciful. They don't need to revive interest, they need to let it die down until everybody has completely forgotten and then start fresh.
Quote
And big thing will be when we see the most secret OS of all times - CommodoreOS
Hint: it's going to be a Linux distribution with a custom skin on the window manager. If he's feeling really wild it might be FreeBSD.
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: CritAnime on September 22, 2011, 10:06:24 PM
It's interesting to note that most of the articles that you see floating around the net about CUSA tend to be the same ones. Just masses of bots and people cutting and pasting into personal blogs and sites. I can imagine the new Amiga range will see the same: which will make Barry think it's a roaring success.
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: dammy on September 22, 2011, 10:14:57 PM
Quote from: Akiko;660654
If somebody really has to purchase a computer with a $25,000 price tag, I imagine they will want to acquire it from a large multinational that offers support and warranty, not some obscure little computer company that will likely fade into oblivion as Commodore Gaming did before.


It probably won't be  a "someone" but "some company" that buys it for video production for $25K.    It may not make sense right now, but let the rest of the pieces of the puzzle fall into place and then make a judgement call.  Amiga was always Commodore's highest multi media system, it won't be any different under C=USA.
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: nicholas on September 22, 2011, 10:17:07 PM
Quote from: dammy;660711
It probably won't be  a "someone" but "some company" that buys it for video production for $25K.    It may not make sense right now, but let the rest of the pieces of the puzzle fall into place and then make a judgement call.  Amiga was always Commodore's highest multi media system, it won't be any different under C=USA.


Do you use KY for Barry?
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: dammy on September 22, 2011, 10:19:18 PM
Quote from: desiv;660659
I tend to defend C-USA.  Not because I like them or intend to buy them, but because I think the hate tends to be exaggerated..

But $25k?????  Seriously???
And you're calling it an Amiga??  No way...

Call it a Mac IIFX reborn, maybe.  That thing was off the charts price wise when it was released..

desiv


Wait and see what hardware is included for $25K desktop system that business will buy.  Hint, it will not be the same as you find in the AIO Commodore Amigas that will run 1/10th the price.
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: CritAnime on September 22, 2011, 10:22:27 PM
BIG HINT!!

Quote from: dammy;660714
$25K desktop system


Sounds like your gonna give us something that Dell, Apple, HP and all the others have been giving us for years. Saying desktop makes it sound like we are not gonna see anything server related.
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: dammy on September 22, 2011, 10:23:41 PM
Quote from: Zac67;660666
Just ordered a complete virtual & redundant server infrastructure (small scale) for ~30k€ yesterday.

What are those guys thinking anyone would do with a system for 25k? Completely bananas.


Go ask your local TV or Cable company on what they are currently using.  The high end Commodore Amigas will not be sitting collecting dust but in use to make money.  Now I could see some AIO Commodore Amigas sitting on a normal person's desk being use to surf the web and play games but certainly not the high end desktops.
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: runequester on September 22, 2011, 10:26:39 PM
You do know that corporate customers will expect a little more support than "check the ubuntu forum" right?
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: commodorejohn on September 22, 2011, 10:26:43 PM
Quote from: dammy;660711
It probably won't be  a "someone" but "some company" that buys it for video production for $25K.    It may not make sense right now, but let the rest of the pieces of the puzzle fall into place and then make a judgement call.  Amiga was always Commodore's highest multi media system, it won't be any different under C=USA.
Quote from: dammy;660714
Wait and see what hardware is included for $25K  desktop system that business will buy.  Hint, it will not be the same as  you find in the AIO Commodore Amigas that will run 1/10th the  price.
Ah, "wait and see," dammy's go-to argument. Riddle me this, exactly what pieces of the puzzle could fall into place to make this not insane? The high-end workstation market is already saturated with vendors who all have longer and better track records than CUSA, and I would bet better pricing as well. A zombie brand name is going to change any of that, even less so than in the home market.
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: CritAnime on September 22, 2011, 10:28:17 PM
Why not show us some pictures, renders, pre-production stuff of the new Amiga's then. After all you were ramming them down our throats when the C64x and VIC's were been released. Let us judge for ourselves on whether these systems are worth it.
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: Duce on September 22, 2011, 10:32:33 PM
The hardware for this $25k machine will still be overpriced compared to the competition.  You will not be buying Quadro's or PCIe SSD's in 1000+ lot quantities to be a reasonable player in the market.  Anyone that can add 2 + 2 can do the math.

Your support will still be lacking compared to your competitors.
There's reports of calls for support to your company going unanswered, questions not answered, your CEO making sexual slurs against detractors, as well as him insulting the community as a whole.  That might be tolerated by the penny ante retro crowd, but it won't be by the big boys.

There's stories of people having DOA 64's arrive at their door, keyboards and wifi entirely unworking, overheating problems all over the place.  If you are going to go after the high end market, simply throwing shiny components into a shiny case isn't enough.  It wasn't enough for Voodoo even, much less a company making the jump from $600 Atom boxes to $25k wonder machines.

And once again, how is this new "Amiga" workstation an "Amiga" in the least, lol?  No one would have a single gripe about the company if they knocked off the charade of being the "savior of the Amiga".  You're raping the corpse of a once well established brand, and nothing more - least you could do is be honest about it.
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: dammy on September 22, 2011, 10:34:40 PM
Quote from: CritAnime;660716
BIG HINT!!



Sounds like your gonna give us something that Dell, Apple, HP and all the others have been giving us for years. Saying desktop makes it sound like we are not gonna see anything server related.

AFAIK, it would be better described as workstations, depending on which Commodore Amiga you are referring to.  Let me give you a hint, I've been pointing out multi media as a primary target for the high end systems.  There is some very expensive multi media hardware out there that would easily jack the price up to $25K or better.  I wonder who could be producing that hardware:

http://www.************.net/CUSA_StrategicPartners.aspx
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: dammy on September 22, 2011, 10:42:48 PM
Quote from: runequester;660718
You do know that corporate customers will expect a little more support than "check the ubuntu forum" right?


I covered that with Barry on my recent phone call with him.   Things will  be come much clearer in the next few months; if not sooner.
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: CritAnime on September 22, 2011, 10:45:38 PM
And there is only Disney and Motorola that are instantly recognisable out of that list. Also the link fails. :)
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: nicholas on September 22, 2011, 10:50:25 PM
Quote from: dammy;660726
I covered that with Barry on my recent phone call with him.   Things will  be come much clearer in the next few months; if not sooner.


Did he ask what colour drawers you had on?
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: dammy on September 22, 2011, 10:51:14 PM
Quote from: commodorejohn;660719
Ah, "wait and see," dammy's go-to argument. Riddle me this, exactly what pieces of the puzzle could fall into place to make this not insane? The high-end workstation market is already saturated with vendors who all have longer and better track records than CUSA, and I would bet better pricing as well. A zombie brand name is going to change any of that, even less so than in the home market.


I am not at liberty to explain it but there are some massive pieces to this puzzle you haven't heard about, yet.
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: commodorejohn on September 22, 2011, 10:53:59 PM
Quote from: dammy;660726
I covered that with Barry on my recent phone call with him.   Things will  be come much clearer in the next few months; if not sooner.
Here's a thought: how about if you know something and you want to make a point with what you know, you tell us what that is? Because otherwise it just looks like you're full of ****, but it couldn't be that, could it? I mean, it's not like you've pulled this "just wait and see" crap to counter predictions that the C64x hardware will be bog-standard Atom boards or that the "Ubuntu as a stopgap until the release of Commodore OS" thing actually meant that "Commodore OS" was going to be a skinned Linux distro, right?
Quote from: dammy;660730
I am not at liberty to explain it but there are some  massive pieces to this puzzle you haven't heard about, yet.
Yeah, that's exactly what you've said every other time. If Barry really does have you on some kind of NDA leash, do us all a favor and note to him that it makes you the worst liason to this community outside of BigBenAussie, will ya?
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: paolone on September 22, 2011, 10:54:46 PM
I don't understand all this sharpness. Commodore USA promised a revival to the Commodore 64 and delivered the product in 6 months. You may find it beautiful or awful, but it proved to exist and to sell, so in a nutshell CUSA was right and most people here and there was wrong. I wonder why most people can't understand their vision of the market, since it's so simple.

First of all, new Amigas will be x64, like many other computers, servers and workstation. They won't be the 'different machines' they could be 25 years ago. They will have to compete on a standardized platform market which is used on practically every field of human activities. If they have to differ somehow from Macs, from Dell and HP workstations, they must provide first class hardware components in a clean, personal, recognizable case line. They can't compete in the consumer market because there's no room for new payers, nor there's room for good incomes. You can buy a great PC for less than $1000, why should you buy another one for $2500 or more?

So the only option to leverage the Amiga brand is selling it as professional computing solution, exactly what Commodore tried to do with the A1000, at least initially. Then they discovered they needed a successor for the C64, and since the C128 wasn't a good idea (and 16 bit platforms were arising at the same time), they brought the A500 to the masses. The problem today is there's no need for a new A500 anymore. A similar machine (a PC with an A500-like case, similar to the C64x) would make happy some vintage maniacs like the C64x did, but it wouldn't fit any other rational need. For instance, I am using the case and the keyboard of a broken A1200 as keyrah-driven USB keyboard for my main PC, I don't need an A500-replica to be happier. Don't forget, then, that old Commodore sold about 20 millions of C64, but only 7 of Amigas (all models together). If you would have been Barry, what model you'd choose for a replica?

If Commodore USA can afford all the needs of corporates (customer care and support at first), I can only welcome the rebirth of Amigas as serious, professional cutting edge workstations. It's the best the name deserves. Yes, I won't have the money to afford one, but at least they will be machines I will DREAM to make mine again, like they did looooong ago. And, thanks to the x64 platform, they will also have a future, unlike some old computers we all love and still miss.
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: dammy on September 22, 2011, 10:55:48 PM
Quote from: CritAnime;660720
Why not show us some pictures, renders, pre-production stuff of the new Amiga's then. After all you were ramming them down our throats when the C64x and VIC's were been released. Let us judge for ourselves on whether these systems are worth it.


Once Barry sends me the pics and the OK to post them, I will.  I'll take a wild guess and say by this Christmas, perhaps sooner.
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: dammy on September 22, 2011, 10:57:51 PM
Quote
http://www.************.net/CUSA_StrategicPartners.aspx


Nice filter job.
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: dammy on September 22, 2011, 11:00:01 PM
Quote from: CritAnime;660727
And there is only Disney and Motorola that are instantly recognisable out of that list. Also the link fails. :)


Wow, I would have figured any Amiga fan would have seen the partner I was referring to.   Such is life.
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: vox on September 22, 2011, 11:05:53 PM
Quote from: dammy;660717
Go ask your local TV or Cable company on what they are currently using.  The high end Commodore Amigas will not be sitting collecting dust but in use to make money.  Now I could see some AIO Commodore Amigas sitting on a normal person's desk being use to surf the web and play games but certainly not the high end desktops.


Well then it better should come with Windows, Lightwave, Scala etc.

In hardware only choices, reliable supplier with real support is appriciated and people (sorry companies) will not care about the Amiga name at all.

Believe its called "overplaying oneself", but let CUSA do it when they desire so. Its heavier and much riskier quest then retro exploit mission.

"From scatchy website to full professionalism in year or two"

Even new website / facebook / PR might get ordinary geeks (even not satisfied about install yourself Ubuntu) it will take much more to get those kind of customers.
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: Duce on September 22, 2011, 11:10:05 PM
You aren't re-inventing the wheel, Dammy.  They are building a computer, not a shuttle to Mars.  Only so many ways to skin a cat, and there's 1000 companies making high end workstations.

You'll be taking readily available, off the shelf items and jamming them into fancy cases, just like every other high end vendor.  It's not rocket science, it's not the 1990's, and you won't be pulling an SGI and flip the industry arse over teakettle with innovation.
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: CritAnime on September 22, 2011, 11:18:07 PM
Dammy I suppose you talking about NewTek then.
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: commodorejohn on September 22, 2011, 11:24:19 PM
Undoubtedly. But Barry's definitions are highly variable, I mean he refers to the factory contracted to do C64x assembly as "our factory in China," for God's sake. So it's possible "strategic partners" in Barry-speak means "companies that I've talked to about giving us a bulk discount."

And if I'm wrong, I charge him and/or his lackeys with explaining what the acutal deal is rather than just going "wait and see."
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: CritAnime on September 22, 2011, 11:30:20 PM
Unless he is going for the "well they were once closely tied with Commodore Amiga's. So now I have the Amiga brand they are now closely tied with me." *insert barry grin*

Meh I dunno. I am starting to think this is all a diversion tactic and really he has his sights set on the Spectrum name. Make us all think he has the Amiga's in production then WHAM! Welcome Commodore ZXX Spectrum.

Remember the extra X means extra money.
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: Tripitaka on September 23, 2011, 12:54:20 PM
Quote from: jorkany;660702
Jeez...only in OS4 land is ineffectiveness and obsolescence considered a plus.


Couldn't resist an OS4 troll comment even in a thread that has sod all to do with it.....
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: Tripitaka on September 23, 2011, 01:37:44 PM
I reckon the new CUSA Amigas are Tricaster + Jetway mombo based with C= OS. Only time will tell.....
....I still hate them.
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: Bamiga2002 on September 23, 2011, 01:41:06 PM
Stop this already! This "new high-tech line" has nothing to do with Amiga besides the Commodore name. All bull for Amiga fans!

Now move on nothing to see here... :hammer:
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: _ThEcRoW on September 23, 2011, 02:30:13 PM
(http://elouai.com/images/yahoo/a24.gif) zzzZZZZ
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: vox on September 23, 2011, 02:43:40 PM
Quote from: dammy;660730
I am not at liberty to explain it but there are some massive pieces to this puzzle you haven't heard about, yet.


Small piece of the puzzle is that (with Amiga Inc consent?) there
all in one (monitor) "Amiga" computers already http://www.icontainstore.com/brands/Amiga.html (http://www.icontainstore.com/brands/Amiga.html)
Its very likely CUSA is trying to make difference to them.
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: Daedalus on September 23, 2011, 02:53:25 PM
Once again, I'm reminded of this, the flawless plan of the underpants gnomes from South Park:

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/dd/Gnomes_plan.png)

All we have to do now is wait and see what the massive question mark in the middle is...
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: Darrin on September 23, 2011, 03:04:04 PM
Quote from: dammy;660726
I covered that with Barry on my recent phone call with him.   Things will  be come much clearer in the next few months; if not sooner.


As clear as a German factory in China?  As clear as the lack of any C64x machines on display at any highstreet retail shops?

Can't wait.
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: spirantho on September 23, 2011, 03:05:33 PM
Quote from: Tripitaka;660837
Couldn't resist an OS4 troll comment even in a thread that has sod all to do with it.....


I just filter them out mentally... like you do when you have a record that's stuck and you can't change... just becomes background noise.

If an 'Amiga user' can't see that the rate of obsolesence on non-x86 platforms is much much lower than on x86-based consumer hardware, then I don't know quite what he's doing here because it's obviously not using Amigas.

On the plus side, fancy buying my K6-2/380 system? For the same price as an Amiga system of the same time, obviously, so will oh, £600 do?
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: Darrin on September 23, 2011, 03:09:49 PM
Quote from: dammy;660730
I am not at liberty to explain it but there are some massive pieces to this puzzle you haven't heard about, yet.


That's because you don't have a clue.  Look at your post about the VIC, you actually state that you might be "confused".

Some "spokesperson" you are.

Is there a reason why C=USA can't pay for a professional?
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: commodorejohn on September 23, 2011, 03:17:30 PM
Quote from: Darrin;660856
Is there a reason why C=USA can't pay for a professional?
I thought that was BigBenAussie :lol:
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: danwood on September 23, 2011, 03:18:32 PM
Quote from: Darrin;660856
That's because you don't have a clue.  Look at your post about the VIC, you actually state that you might be "confused".

Some "spokesperson" you are.

Is there a reason why C=USA can't pay for a professional?


Probably blew too much of the $30,million budget on those high profile Superbowl adverts we all remember....
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: Darrin on September 23, 2011, 03:57:17 PM
Quote from: danwood;660860
Probably blew too much of the $30,million budget on those high profile Superbowl adverts we all remember....


LOL.  More like blew it on toilet bowl cleaner.  :D
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: Darrin on September 23, 2011, 03:58:11 PM
Quote from: commodorejohn;660859
I thought that was BigBenAussie :lol:


It's sad when a spokesman sounds like a beastiality movie porn star.  ;)
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: B00tDisk on September 23, 2011, 04:18:46 PM
Quote from: spirantho;660855
I just filter them out mentally... like you do when you have a record that's stuck and you can't change... just becomes background noise.

If an 'Amiga user' can't see that the rate of obsolesence on non-x86 platforms is much much lower than on x86-based consumer hardware, then I don't know quite what he's doing here because it's obviously not using Amigas.

On the plus side, fancy buying my K6-2/380 system? For the same price as an Amiga system of the same time, obviously, so will oh, £600 do?


By your logic a boxed Apple Lisa or to go further back a mint Altair are far, far better computers than the Amiga.

(Hint: it has nothing - zero - to do with what the real world will pay for Amiga-one systems from the year 2000.  People from "outside" aren't flocking in and driving up the prices of A1 gear, it's all churn from about 1500 users and nothing more.  Hype and Amiga Inc set the price and Amigoids are struggling to recoup their losses investment, and they sell to other Amigoids.  Take a box of SAM boards to your local computer sale/show, and I promise you ain't gonna sell out of 'em.)
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: vox on September 23, 2011, 05:05:43 PM
Quote from: commodorejohn;660709
What mania? The reaction to the C64x outside of the Commodore/Amiga community totalled one brief moment of "huh, really?" when it got its first real publicity in the outside world, followed by a handful of tech-site articles noting that "well, uh, it's a nice case, but it's just a mid-range Atom board in there, so...what's the big deal, again?" Hell, there was as much interest in CUSA generated when Barry theratened to sue OSNews. And we haven't seen the sales numbers (or rather, the real ones, not the dammy ones,) but I guarantee you if it were anything even close to 100,000 there would be a whole lot more crowing from the CUSA sycophants.


Well, certainly, there are web reviews, don`t know have the major magazines reviewed it at all. Loved the Wired comments "It’s a cute gimmick, to be sure, and one that would surely sell well if it didn’t cost so much. As it is, there must be a very limited set of customers willing to drop big money on a novelty Ubuntu box.

And anyway, the real nerds will be waiting for Commodore’s next big project: The resurrection of the majestic Amiga, albeit in the shape of a DVD player. These machines will use PC hardware but run “Commodore OS,” a mysterious operating system that will either be awesome or awful. I can’t wait."

Quote from: commodorejohn;660709
It's all but disappeared down the public-interest hole, and considering that by more than a few accounts the end-user experience has consisted of pestering Barry to fix the cooling problems until he stopped pouting and put in another fan, that's probably merciful. They don't need to revive interest, they need to let it die down until everybody has completely forgotten and then start fresh.
Hint: it's going to be a Linux distribution with a custom skin on the window manager. If he's feeling really wild it might be FreeBSD.


Well does it takes months to beta test little add-ons and AmigaForever integration? And boot screen choice? Lets see can they do better!

Even name of COS have changed (like a real serious company, they could rename themselves - persons in charge - one day) ... its just Linux Mint. And two flavours - retro and future! Even its fairer when people know what it is, one must note.

"Today I am proud to announce that I have selected Linux Mint 11, Commodore OEM Edition, as the Operating System that we will install on every new computer we produce. We will make this Mint 11 distribution available to all of our current owners as well. Additionally, our CTO, Leo Nigro has developed and produced a retro inspired ISO, based on Linux Mint 10, which will also be available. "
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: commodorejohn on September 23, 2011, 05:21:13 PM
Quote from: vox;660870
And anyway, the real nerds will be waiting for Commodore’s next big project: The resurrection of the majestic Amiga, albeit in the shape of a DVD player. These machines will use PC hardware but run “Commodore OS,” a mysterious operating system that will either be awesome or awful. I can’t wait.
"Resurrection?" If by that you mean a "shambling, decaying mockery of what was once a living thing" kind of resurrection, I suppose you could say that:
(http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/2896/0912011.gif)
(And, psst, here's a hint: "Commodore OS" will be re-skinned Linux. There's no mystery about that, no matter how much dammy insists otherwise.)
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: Daedalus on September 23, 2011, 05:30:03 PM
Quote from: commodorejohn;660872
(And, psst, here's a hint: "Commodore OS" will be re-skinned Linux. There's no mystery about that, no matter how much dammy insists otherwise.)

Was it not eventually confirmed that Commodore OS was going to be a customised Linux Mint distro?

Edit: Yep, Linux Mint 10 and/or 11... http://www.commodore-amiga.org/forum/6-commodore-os-software-development/1254-commodore-os-questions?limit=15&start=225&lang=en#8559
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: mongo on September 23, 2011, 05:40:44 PM
Quote from: dammy;660730
I am not at liberty to explain it but there are some massive pieces to this puzzle you haven't heard about, yet.


You've been saying that for over a year now.
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: commodorejohn on September 23, 2011, 05:44:28 PM
Quote from: mongo;660877
You've been saying that for over a year now.
Don't worry, it's all part of Barry's decades-spanning MASTER PLAN! for ruling the world. He's a genuine chessmaster, that Barry, what with his legendary furniture-dealership savvy!
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: mongo on September 23, 2011, 05:55:50 PM
I like how Commodore USA's phone number is shared with Barry's other businesses. Their fax number is also shared with his wife.

It's convenient for those times when you want to order a C64x, a Tuscany 22" bathroom vanity, and schedule an appointment with a psychotherapist all at the same time.

No other PC manufacturer can offer you this kind of service.
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: spirantho on September 23, 2011, 07:47:50 PM
Quote from: B00tDisk;660869
By your logic a boxed Apple Lisa or to go further back a mint Altair are far, far better computers than the Amiga.

(Hint: it has nothing - zero - to do with what the real world will pay for Amiga-one systems from the year 2000.  People from "outside" aren't flocking in and driving up the prices of A1 gear, it's all churn from about 1500 users and nothing more.  Hype and Amiga Inc set the price and Amigoids are struggling to recoup their losses investment, and they sell to other Amigoids.  Take a box of SAM boards to your local computer sale/show, and I promise you ain't gonna sell out of 'em.)


You can't deny though that my AmigaOne from 2005 or whatever is a million times more useful with current software for its OS than a PC from the same era.
I didn't say which was better, just that a PC will get obsolete a lot faster.
And of course if you go to a local computer show, you won't sell out fast.... but the world is a lot bigger than that. If you go to the open market like eBay, you WILL sell out at far higher prices than a PC would command.

However you cut it, you can't deny that the value of a 6 year old Amiga is worth more than a 6-year old PC - whatever the reason. Equally a $25K PC will be worth less in 5 years time than a $2K Amiga.
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: persia on September 23, 2011, 08:34:53 PM
There are, Moochie knocked over the table and some of the pieces went under the couch, back by that piece of pizza that was dropped last year.  And -oh, did the pizza move?  I swear it moved!  

Quote from: mongo;660877
You've been saying that for over a year now.
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: B00tDisk on September 23, 2011, 09:04:16 PM
Quote from: spirantho;660908
You can't deny though that my AmigaOne from 2005 or whatever is a million times more useful with current software for its OS than a PC from the same era.


Hm, yeah, I can.  I used a 2005 era PC up until about a year and change ago and I did plenty an AmigaOne couldn't.  It also had:

Working USB2
Working DMA
Multiple OSes I could install on it (including in VMs)

etc. etc.

But whatever; Amigoids won't be shaken in their faith, so we move on...
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: Digiman on September 23, 2011, 09:08:58 PM
Quote from: dammy;660610
No, starting is about $2000 (AIO) which is cheaper then what is being offered in multi-core by A-EON.  If you go with bang:buck ratio against A-EON, it's not even close.



What Barry is aiming for with the Commodore Amiga is the professional level.  That means it has to have the gear and software that industry uses as standard.  Yes, multi media is the niche he is aiming for as video production for the web is going to be a long term demand.


Oh be quiet, C-USA "Amiga" = bog standard Wintel motherboard rubbish.....something anyone can build themselves. Bang for buck you machines are worthless doorstops compared to an xbox 360 motherboard for $79 if we are making ludicrous irrelevant comparisons. :roflmao:
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: Delta on September 23, 2011, 10:19:39 PM
If you make quick calculations, you realize any of us (almost) could do exactly what C=USA is doing.

-Buying low end PCs with some mainstream peripherals: CHEAP
-Sending a prototype of C64 casing to china and buy a couple hundreds made by some plastic factory that would take any contract: CHEAP
-Making an ugly & simple website: FREE

Add linux and a C64 emulator and after only a couple of thousand bucks you got yourself a computer business that can be run from your basement.

So Dammy please get back in the REAL world, this company is not serious at all.  You can't just take a common product and PATCH a Commodore or Amiga sticker on it.

C=USA, If you can't create something different than a PC in disguise, leave the brand alone!
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: B00tDisk on September 23, 2011, 11:25:38 PM
Quote from: Delta;660943


C=USA, If you can't create something different than a PC in disguise, leave the brand alone!


Why?  They own it.  It belongs to them.  They can do whatever they wish with it.  Offer them $m and I'm sure you can become its spiritual defender.  

(Note this is not an endorsement of the pricing insanity or Barry's erratic behavior.)
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: vox on September 23, 2011, 11:29:27 PM
Quote from: commodorejohn;660872
"Resurrection?" If by that you mean a "shambling, decaying mockery of what was once a living thing" kind of resurrection, I suppose you could say that:


Its sad so many people don`t know of MorphOS and AmigaOS 4 some will eve buy that "zombification"

Quote from: (And, psst, here's a hint: "Commodore OS" will be re-skinned Linux. There's no mystery about that, no matter how much dammy insists otherwise.)[/QUOTE


As you could see from latest masterplans they will have Mints Commodore OEM editions, so after Workbench V debackle even the CommodoreOS name is changed. Sounds like everything is insecure with CUSA :laughing:

As with Commodore64x only "seeing is believeing" and so far they have managed to produce 1 case as somethig new. WhateverOS will be their next real endavour beside glossy websites and big words.
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: TheGoose on September 23, 2011, 11:51:31 PM
Quote from: jorkany;660582
Well, technically they'll start at only $5000.

When I read that link I really was shocked! There are companies that buy computers at that price point, and if that's CUSA's target market then they should examine the reasons why companies buy those computers. It's not because of feelings of nostalgia.

Yes there are, and they are usually called a "BOXX (http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sugexp=pfwc&cp=6&gs_id=j&xhr=t&q=boxx+computers&qe=Ym94eCBj&qesig=NMIsDni0gqIGIu4czwMNGg&pkc=AFgZ2tkes6GJ8ZX6G8uLzuTISb9oYqX7PXRDyjTKTiKP_ns6Xq6rKieN1g79Zo061IHzREgPxExoxIicn9GYmuIIVxa3Dud-xw&safe=off&gs_sm=&gs_upl=&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbo=u&tbm=shop&source=og&sa=N&tab=wf&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.&fp=cff3f025e36f7721&biw=1280&bih=813)" workstation.

But these actually have some value, do stuff.
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: Darrin on September 24, 2011, 12:14:58 AM
Quote from: mongo;660882
I like how Commodore USA's phone number is shared with Barry's other businesses. Their fax number is also shared with his wife.

It's convenient for those times when you want to order a C64x, a Tuscany 22" bathroom vanity, and schedule an appointment with a psychotherapist all at the same time.

No other PC manufacturer can offer you this kind of service.


ROTFLMAO!  Seriously?  :D
Title: Re: You thought the X1000 was overpriced?
Post by: mongo on September 24, 2011, 12:25:36 AM
Quote from: B00tDisk;660947
Why?  They own it.  It belongs to them.  They can do whatever they wish with it.  Offer them $m and I'm sure you can become its spiritual defender.  

(Note this is not an endorsement of the pricing insanity or Barry's erratic behavior.)


They don't own it.