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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: Tension on September 19, 2011, 12:13:42 AM

Title: AmigaOne 500
Post by: Tension on September 19, 2011, 12:13:42 AM
Just a SAM in a dress then?
Title: Re: AmigaOne 500
Post by: Matt_H on September 19, 2011, 02:01:19 AM
Seems like we'll know for sure by this time next week...
Title: Re: AmigaOne 500
Post by: yakumo9275 on September 19, 2011, 02:28:09 AM
I wouldnt even call it a dress, more like an ugly potato sack. honking ugly square black box
Title: Re: AmigaOne 500
Post by: haywirepc on September 19, 2011, 02:32:47 AM
where are some pics of it?

Steven
Title: Re: AmigaOne 500
Post by: dreamcast270mhz on September 19, 2011, 02:39:48 AM
@Steven

No pics as of yet. But Its exciting, even if it is cost prhibitive atm (getting me self a fiero)
Title: Re: AmigaOne 500
Post by: orb85750 on September 19, 2011, 02:57:09 AM
Is somebody gonna put this in the news section of Amiga.org?
Title: Re: AmigaOne 500
Post by: freqmax on September 19, 2011, 03:02:57 AM
It will proberbly be released soon, or maybe later, being delayed, by mysterious reasons.. ;)
Title: Re: AmigaOne 500
Post by: Delta on September 19, 2011, 03:03:33 AM
I am so disappointed...I was expecting some kind of SAM below 1000$ and all we get is the same product with a different casing....
Title: Re: AmigaOne 500
Post by: Rebel-CD32 on September 19, 2011, 03:09:52 AM
(http://www.acube-systems.biz/common/image/hardware/amigaone500_image.jpg)
Title: Re: AmigaOne 500
Post by: commodorejohn on September 19, 2011, 03:36:44 AM
Looks about like any other boring-ass micro-ATX case, and you can get other boring-ass microATX cases for well less than the $200-400 difference between this and the cost of a SAM 460ex setup from Vesalia.

But I suppose that wouldn't have the Holy Sticker, would it? (I mean, Christ, it's already got the Holy Name...)

"Amiga: because what you really want is a computer that looks like a VCR from 1988."
Title: Re: AmigaOne 500
Post by: freqmax on September 19, 2011, 03:37:16 AM
Quote from: Delta;659917
I am so disappointed...I was expecting some kind of SAM below 1000$ and all we get is the same product with a different casing....

Commodore Amiga lesson: Want it?, make it!  ;)

Quote from: commodorejohn;659921
Looks about like any other boring-ass micro-ATX case, and you can get other boring-ass microATX cases for well less than the $200-400 difference between this and the cost of a SAM 460ex setup from Vesalia.

It's for those that lack capability to assemble by their own means I guess..?

Quote from: commodorejohn;659921
But I suppose that wouldn't have the Holy Sticker, would it? (I mean, Christ, it's already got the Holy Name...)

You will burn at the stake! Anyone found without the holy sticker will have to use Windoze on x86 for eternity ;) ;)
Title: Re: AmigaOne 500
Post by: commodorejohn on September 19, 2011, 03:41:43 AM
Quote from: freqmax;659923
Commodore Amiga lesson: Want it?, make it!  ;)
That's about the size of it. Problem is, nobody with the resources to make it seems to want it, for any single definition of "it."
Title: Re: AmigaOne 500
Post by: koaftder on September 19, 2011, 05:55:34 AM
Wow, this case looks worse than the crap-o machines that the mom-n-pop PC repair joint around the corner from my house is slinging, and only for $1,200 USD! What a deal! :banana:
Title: Re: AmigaOne 500
Post by: Lord Aga on September 19, 2011, 09:10:23 AM
The way things are going... new FPGA Amigas look far more interesting and afordable. Perhaps even with better prospects ?
Title: Re: AmigaOne 500
Post by: rollmeter on September 19, 2011, 09:42:26 AM
They think we are stupid... FPGA Arcade and Natami NOW!! Please!!
Title: Re: AmigaOne 500
Post by: Khephren on September 19, 2011, 09:55:07 AM
If your going to scalp people for a lot of money, at least put some effort into the case. Dare I say, a custom case perhaps?
Title: Re: AmigaOne 500
Post by: rvo_nl on September 19, 2011, 10:05:42 AM
Oh come on, why is everyone so negative? Sure, its not the best looking case, but it is not *that* bad! Just be thankful we are getting new hardware and software, its 2011 and still people are developing stuff. The least we can do is show some respect. If all you want is a pretty case, go to Apple!
Title: Re: AmigaOne 500
Post by: takemehomegrandma on September 19, 2011, 10:09:03 AM
Quote from: Tension;659890
Just a SAM in a dress then?


And that "dress" looks like a plastic suitcase from 1973 or something. Does it come in brown as well? :lol:
Title: Re: AmigaOne 500
Post by: takemehomegrandma on September 19, 2011, 10:12:07 AM
Quote from: rvo_nl;659946
If all you want is a pretty case, go to Apple!


Indeed, and then you also get 2x the performance at 1/5 of the cost... ;)
Title: Re: AmigaOne 500
Post by: Duce on September 19, 2011, 10:51:22 AM
Why is this thread being pruned?

I said "That case is ugly as sin" and now it's removed.
Title: Re: AmigaOne 500
Post by: takemehomegrandma on September 19, 2011, 10:53:42 AM
Quote from: Duce;659953
Why is this thread being pruned?

I said "That case is ugly as sin" and now it's removed.


You commented in another thread! ;)

http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=659933&postcount=60
Title: Re: AmigaOne 500
Post by: whabang on September 19, 2011, 12:07:47 PM
Quote from: takemehomegrandma;659949
Indeed, and then you also get 2x the performance at 1/5 of the cost... ;)
Sad, isn't it?
Title: Re: AmigaOne 500
Post by: jj on September 19, 2011, 12:40:47 PM
I don't know why I am surprised anymore by the cost of the NG amigas, but I still am.
 
This is a blatant rip off.
Title: Re: AmigaOne 500
Post by: whabang on September 19, 2011, 12:43:14 PM
Quote from: JJ;659960
I don't know why I am surprised anymore by the cost of the NG amigas, but I still am.
 
This is a blatant rip off.
That's the price of using custom hardware - and why I beleive Aros is the only way forward for the Amiga.
Title: Re: AmigaOne 500
Post by: jj on September 19, 2011, 12:45:59 PM
But its not is it , there is some massive markup going on for the other parts of the system.
Title: Re: AmigaOne 500
Post by: CritAnime on September 19, 2011, 12:48:30 PM
At least we have seen a new Amiga this year. It's more than what CUSA have delivered. If it was cheaper I would probably consider it. I do feel somewhat happy inside that this is been done.
Title: Re: AmigaOne 500
Post by: Matteus on September 19, 2011, 01:05:35 PM
IT should be white, that's all I'm saying. ;)

It's actually harder to find white cases nowadays, than black and silver.
Title: Re: AmigaOne 500
Post by: utri007 on September 19, 2011, 01:12:07 PM
There is plenty of possible Amiga NG PPC hardware available, it is possible to buy PPC mobo less than 60€

Problem of these are that, life cycle is too short and to get one need to buy thousands of them.

But still, it would be smarter to buy 10 000 chinesse mobos that build one self
Title: Re: AmigaOne 500
Post by: rdolores on September 19, 2011, 01:36:47 PM
You could just get the motherboard and put it in one of these:

http://loriano.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/4.jpg
Title: Re: AmigaOne 500
Post by: spihunter on September 19, 2011, 01:50:23 PM
Maybe C-USA should buy some of these cases, put a cheap PC motherboard in them, and call them the "Commodore Amiga 500 NG" and sell them for $900........
Title: Re: AmigaOne 500
Post by: freqmax on September 19, 2011, 02:25:33 PM
I think people should remember that ACube put those Minimigs on sale (http://www.acube-systems.biz/index.php?page=hardware&pid=3) for 129 EUR. That helps a lot.

As for the AmigaOne 500, it's likely not even Amiga 500 compatible as the name would lead one to believe. However for persons that doesn't have time, but have money. Or persons just plain technically inept to use a screwdriver and install OS etc. It's probably a nice choice if you like everything served. Point being it's a service, not a playfield changer like Minimig or FPGA Arcade.

Custom electronics is expensive. But most of these solutions seems to be commodity computing platforms that gives way to little in the MIPS/money factor. Even if the PPC is a nice CPU.
Title: Re: AmigaOne 500
Post by: Hattig on September 19, 2011, 03:34:14 PM
For such a limited market be happy that the system is only that price.

it's just a shame that the case is so bland... I guess we all want a thick beigey plastic wedge with AMIGA embossed onto it.
Title: Re: AmigaOne 500
Post by: commodorejohn on September 19, 2011, 03:48:14 PM
Quote from: rvo_nl;659946
Oh come on, why is everyone so negative? Sure, its not the best looking case, but it is not *that* bad! Just be thankful we are getting new hardware and software, its 2011 and still people are developing stuff. The least we can do is show some respect.
Be thankful that they're offering an $1100 board in a $40 case for $1400? I think not. This notion of "you should accept anything anyone offers you because at least it's new development" is the plague of the Amiga community.
Quote
If all you want is a pretty case, go to Apple!
Funny you should mention, because you know what? I got a quad-core 2.5GHz Power Mac G5 (PPC 970, a processor which kicks the ass of the Sam's PPC 440 six ways from Sunday even clock-for-clock and core-for-core,) with 4GB of DDR2, for ~$500. That's a bit over 1/3 the cost of this, has a [strike]prettier[/strike] less ugly case, and kicks the unholy **** out of a Sam460ex. Of course, it won't run OS4 because Hyperion are stubborn nincompoops, but that's okay, either of the other NG Amigoid OSes will run on it, as well as OSX or Linux.
Quote from: freqmax;659977
However for persons that doesn't have time, but have money. Or persons just plain technically inept to use a screwdriver and install OS etc. It's probably a nice choice if you like everything served.
If you don't have the 10 minutes it takes to install a motherboard in a case or (is this even possible?) can't figure out how to put it in place and use screws to secure it, you should not be using a computer.
Quote from: Hattig;659986
it's just a shame that the case is so bland... I guess we all want a thick beigey plastic wedge with AMIGA embossed onto it.
Yes.
Title: Re: AmigaOne 500
Post by: mechy on September 19, 2011, 04:02:23 PM
Quote from: Rebel-CD32;659918
(http://www.acube-systems.biz/common/image/hardware/amigaone500_image.jpg)

Wasnt this in those old 70's samsonite luggage commercials where the gorilla is tossing them around to prove how tough they were?:roflmao:
Title: Re: AmigaOne 500
Post by: eliyahu on September 19, 2011, 04:04:39 PM
Quote from: commodorejohn;659988
Be thankful that they're offering an $1100 board in a $40 case for $1400? I think not. This notion of "you should accept anything anyone offers you because at least it's new development" is the plague of the Amiga community.
with the current exchange rate it's closer to $1200USD, but yeah, it's pricey. :(

Quote
Funny you should mention, because you know what? I got a quad-core 2.5GHz Power Mac G5 (PPC 970, a processor which kicks the ass of the Sam's PPC 440 six ways from Sunday even clock-for-clock and core-for-core,) with 4GB of DDR2, for ~$500. That's a bit over 1/3 the cost of this, has a [strike]prettier[/strike] less ugly case, and kicks the unholy **** out of a Sam460ex. Of course, it won't run OS4 because Hyperion are stubborn nincompoops, but that's okay, either of the other NG Amigoid OSes will run on it, as well as OSX or Linux.
it's a great machine, no question. doesn't look like support for MOS is coming any time soon, though. as i'm sure the MOS developers can tell you, supporting the G5 system architecture is not exactly trivial. :lol:

besides: hyperion believes in a platform that is 'uniquely' amiga. whether the SAM fits the bill or not is anyone's call. darn shame, though. just from the standpoint of price/performance supporting power macs seems a no-brainer. well, if, that is, you aren't interesting in supporting your own hardware ecosystem, which i think hyperion are.

Quote
If you don't have the 10 minutes it takes to install a motherboard in a case or (is this even possible?) can't figure out how to put it in place and use screws to secure it, you should not be using a computer.
:laughing:

i think the real issue here is that hyperion is now establishing the amigaone brand as the family of amigaOS computers. it's nice to see the brand unified. beyond that, it's just a SAM in a third-party case. :(

by the way, you planning on coming to amiwest next month?

-- eliyahu
Title: Re: AmigaOne 500
Post by: freqmax on September 19, 2011, 04:07:40 PM
Quote from: commodorejohn;659988
If you don't have the 10 minutes it takes to install a motherboard in a case or (is this even possible?) can't figure out how to put it in place and use screws to secure it, you should not be using a computer.


It's a feature not a problem .. ! ;)
Title: Re: AmigaOne 500
Post by: Daedalus on September 19, 2011, 04:08:37 PM
@commodorejohn

Having worked in a shop selling computer parts for a couple of years, I can testify that there are *plenty* of people who are too technically incompetent to be trusted with a screwdriver. The amount of machines we've had returned because people tried upgrading the CPU or motherboard, only to break pins off the chips, or not put spacers behind the board, or even fitting the CPU heatsink with insulating foam sticky pads. Buying as a complete package isn't for me, or for a lot of people, but there are many people out there who would benefit from just being handed a working machine.

As for this particular machine - if you don't like it, don't buy it. Run MorphOS or AROS on your dual G5 Mac and be happy with that. That's obviously not the market Hyperion want, and at the end of the day it's their decision. Let them at it, if they fail because of it, they fail. It's not like the MorphOS fans will be affected by that in any way, so why do they really care?

For what it's worth, it's not an $1100 board in a $40 case for $1400. It might not be a great deal, but it's nowhere near as bad as you're making it out to be. Basically, you're looking at €200 for the package over the motherboard. So that's a case, PSU, 2GB RAM, optical drive, SATA controller board, hard drive and mouse for €200. Probably not €200 worth of stuff, but much, much more than $40.
Title: Re: AmigaOne 500
Post by: takemehomegrandma on September 19, 2011, 04:18:03 PM
Quote from: CritAnime;659964
At least we have seen a new Amiga this year


:lol:
Title: Re: AmigaOne 500
Post by: takemehomegrandma on September 19, 2011, 04:20:57 PM
Quote from: eliyahu;659990
hyperion is now establishing the amigaone brand as the family of amigaOS4 computers.


There, I corrected it for your... ;)
Title: Re: AmigaOne 500
Post by: commodorejohn on September 19, 2011, 04:29:38 PM
Quote from: eliyahu;659990
\it's a great machine, no question. doesn't look like support for MOS is coming any time soon, though. as i'm sure the MOS developers can tell you, supporting the G5 system architecture is not exactly trivial. :lol:
Well, Piru's posted shots of MOS running on a previous-model G5, don't know how that project's coming along though. Not a tragedy for me, MOS isn't really my thing, but it'd be nice for people to have the option.
Quote
well, if, that is, you aren't interesting in supporting your own hardware ecosystem, which i think hyperion are.
And this, of course, is the answer: they don't really care what their customers want or what would be best for the community, they're out to push their line of (expensive, underpowered) products come hell or high water...
Quote
by the way, you planning on coming to amiwest next month?
Aw, I wish, but unfortunately I have way too many financial obligations and not enough income to finance a cross-country road-trip...
Quote from: Daedalus;659993
Having worked in a shop selling computer parts for a couple of years, I can testify that there are *plenty* of people who are too technically incompetent to be trusted with a screwdriver.
I know, I know, I just think they should be sent off to remedial computer education :D
Quote
As for this particular machine - if you don't like it, don't buy it. Run MorphOS or AROS on your dual G5 Mac and be happy with that. That's obviously not the market Hyperion want, and at the end of the day it's their decision. Let them at it, if they fail because of it, they fail. It's not like the MorphOS fans will be affected by that in any way, so why do they really care?
Well, obviously they're free to run their business as they see fit - but I don't see how that puts them above criticism. I wouldn't be buying an OS4 product anyway, but that doesn't mean I don't feel for the people who would like one but could really use a cheaper product, and get led on by marketing hype to speculate about this upcoming "new" product only to find out that it's the same damn thing as the old one in a pre-built configuration in an ugly case.
Title: Re: AmigaOne 500
Post by: rollmeter on September 19, 2011, 04:37:52 PM
It's amazing see that neither Acube / Aeon nor Hyperion Entertainment haven´t learned anything in all these years. Amiga Inc made a really bad job, but they are taking the same way ...

How can you try to sell obsolete technology at these prices (Acube)? How can you announce a new computer 2 years before is ready (Aeon)? How can you sell an overpriced operating system that doesn´t has new software and it´s so limited (Hyperion)?

I think they should change this to be successfull. What would be a good way?

A single company developing software and hardware.
Title: Re: AmigaOne 500
Post by: rvo_nl on September 19, 2011, 09:03:31 PM
Quote from: commodorejohn;659988
Funny you should mention, because you know what? I got a quad-core 2.5GHz Power Mac G5 (PPC 970,e

So its in a pretty case AND its faster AND it has a modern operating system. You think I didnt know that? Again, if that is really all you want, I dont understand what you do on an Amiga forum. You and I know Amiga offers a lot more in other fields.
 
Besides all that, if you dont think its worth the money, just dont buy one! No-one is forcing you to buy this machine. Hey, Im not going to buy one..
 
Still Im saying we should be glad for OS4 and glad for people having the courage to sell new hardware / cases. Its not easy in a market like this, where everyone seems to have his own opinion on things. For me that explains the price tag.
Title: Re: AmigaOne 500
Post by: klx300r on September 19, 2011, 09:10:57 PM
i could go with another case personally but the important thing here to note is that the AmigaOne brand is now solidified with both ACube and A-Eon for future years :drink:
Title: Re: AmigaOne 500
Post by: commodorejohn on September 19, 2011, 09:17:23 PM
Quote from: rvo_nl;660065
So its in a pretty case AND its faster AND it has a modern operating system. You think I didnt know that? Again, if that is really all you want, I dont understand what you do on an Amiga forum. You and I know Amiga offers a lot more in other fields.
Well, what more is there? A Power Mac is as related to the Amiga hardware-wise as any of the Sam boards, faster, and cheaper, and eventually it'll run MorphOS if you want an Amigoid OS to complete the experience. (And already runs AROS hosted on OSX or Linux.) It's as authentic as any OS4 setup, which is to say "kinda-sorta." If I want True Amiga, I've got my 3000.
 
Quote
Besides all that, if you dont think its worth the money, just dont buy one! No-one is forcing you to buy this machine. Hey, Im not going to buy one..
Of course nobody's forcing me to buy one, but I thumb my nose at this "hey, if you don't like it you should just shut up and pretend not to have an opinion" argument.
Title: Re: AmigaOne 500
Post by: rvo_nl on September 19, 2011, 09:41:21 PM
Well, then this machine clearly is not meant for you (or me, for that matter). That is fine. I just couldnt bear seeing a complete page of comments slagging something off that IMO should have deserved a much warmer welcome.

As for your first question, like I said, seems we all have a different opinion on this. For me, and for various reasons, a true Amiga is the one displayed in my sig, although I applaud all (hardware-wise) efforts and I really like OS4.
Title: Re: AmigaOne 500
Post by: yakumo9275 on September 19, 2011, 11:18:01 PM
Quote from: rvo_nl;660074
IMO should have deserved a much warmer welcome.


it does not deserve anything. if it was 500 it would be awesome, for over 1000, its unprintable in a bad way.
Title: Re: AmigaOne 500
Post by: TheGoose on September 20, 2011, 12:42:15 AM
This seems like a Red Herring to me. Where's the X1000?

:hammer:
Title: Re: AmigaOne 500
Post by: giZmo350 on September 20, 2011, 03:09:22 AM
Quote from: TheGoose;660104
This seems like a Red Herring to me. Where's the X1000?

:hammer:


A Red Herring?! More like a trip on a Shrimp Dingy headed for a   rendezvous with the Titanic! HA! Just kiddin! These guys have done a great job with new hardware and OS4.1. I'm buying an OS4 machine for sure but probably from AmigaKit anyhoo 'cause they have a toll free support number in the states. I'm gonna put the SAM in a Silverstone case anyway. As far as X1000? I'll probably buy one of those too when it is available. I can always sell the SAM. These are good times to be an Amiga nut! Oh yeah, CAMMY RULES! :)
Title: Re: AmigaOne 500
Post by: klx300r on September 20, 2011, 05:24:27 AM
Quote from: TheGoose;660104
This seems like a Red Herring to me. Where's the X1000?

:hammer:

according to A-Eon's web site it's out there..somewhere:afro:...hopefully Scully & Mulder are beta-testers;)
Title: Re: AmigaOne 500
Post by: Fats on September 20, 2011, 06:04:26 PM
Quote from: rvo_nl;660074
I just couldnt bear seeing a complete page of comments slagging something off that IMO should have deserved a much warmer welcome.


Welcome to amiga.org.
Staf.
Title: Re: AmigaOne 500
Post by: HotRod on September 20, 2011, 09:47:46 PM
@commodorejohn

One thing that I don't get about you is that you sound really upset and angry over the prices but at the same time you say that pretty much anything is better and that doesn't add up. Now if you would like hardware to be cheaper/better so that you could run AOS 4 I would understand your reaction but if you think that it's crap then I don't know why you bother writing long and angry replies?

However I agree on it being very expensive but if I had money to spend and really wanted it I would *maybe* buy one. But that's just me.

I also think that there is nothing wrong with buying a complete system. I have built many computers over the years and that is not a problem and kind of fun but at the same time, if I buy something new I want to play with it ASAP. I can check out the hardware later. If I buy a Mac I don't have much options but I don't cry over it.

My PowerMac is just gathering dust. MacOS X is ok but the lack of software are begining to show. If AOS 4 or MOS becomes available I will install it right away. Linux runs better on my PC, AROS I'm not interested in (yet). A dual-boot with MacOS X and AOS 4/MOS would be great.
Title: Re: AmigaOne 500
Post by: pampers on September 20, 2011, 10:05:30 PM
Quote from: HotRod;660298
@commodorejohn
My PowerMac is just gathering dust. [...] If AOS 4 or MOS becomes available I will install it right away.

http://morphos-team.net/releasenotes-2.6.html ??
Title: Re: AmigaOne 500
Post by: rvo_nl on September 20, 2011, 10:16:39 PM
Quote from: Fats;660244
Welcome to amiga.org.
Staf.

Nah. Just the state of the Amiga 'scene' in 2011, I guess. Then again, I see myself as a true supporter, but Im not buying any new hardware myself. Might be even worse, dunno.
Title: Re: AmigaOne 500
Post by: commodorejohn on September 20, 2011, 10:24:18 PM
Quote from: HotRod;660298
One thing that I don't get about you is that you sound really upset and angry over the prices but at the same time you say that pretty much anything is better and that doesn't add up. Now if you would like hardware to be cheaper/better so that you could run AOS 4 I would understand your reaction but if you think that it's crap then I don't know why you bother writing long and angry replies?
As I said earlier in the thread, I don't have an interest in OS4 myself, but I feel bad for people who do and are stuck with having to shell out $800-1200 for something that even a $100 used Mac outperforms.

That, and I resent the implication some people keep making, that people who express their disappointment that ACube's lead-on marketing stunt was only to announce their same product at the same basic price but in an ugly case are just haters, and that this (like the X1000) is automatically entitled to our adulation just for existing.
Title: Re: AmigaOne 500
Post by: jorkany on September 20, 2011, 10:51:07 PM
Quote from: TheGoose;660104
This seems like a Red Herring to me. Where's the X1000?


Bigfoot got his beta board and is testing.
Title: Re: AmigaOne 500
Post by: matt3k on September 20, 2011, 11:08:13 PM
Quote from: dreamcast270mhz;659912
@Steven

No pics as of yet. But Its exciting, even if it is cost prhibitive atm (getting me self a fiero)
A Fiero? Awesome, I have a 87 fastback sitting in the garage, great car and lot of fun.

What are you buying?
Title: Re: AmigaOne 500
Post by: matt3k on September 20, 2011, 11:09:52 PM
Good job to Acube, they are doing what they need to do to offer options for the Amiga Community.

They need to make money, I have no problem with what their charging for their system.  

Great to see good news...
Title: Re: AmigaOne 500
Post by: amigadave on September 20, 2011, 11:34:27 PM
Quote from: Daedalus;659993
@commodorejohn
As for this particular machine - if you don't like it, don't buy it. Run MorphOS or AROS on your dual G5 Mac and be happy with that. That's obviously not the market Hyperion want, and at the end of the day it's their decision. Let them at it, if they fail because of it, they fail. It's not like the MorphOS fans will be affected by that in any way, so why do they really care?

I have seen this argument too many times to ignore it any longer.

Hyperion's OS4.x and MorphOS2.x (soon to be 3.x) are in direct competition for the same user base, ex-Classic Amiga users.  MorphOS users are interested in what happens with OS4 in the same way that most OS4 users are interested in what the MorphOS developers are doing.

Granted, some OS4 users seem to have given up being interested in any kind of comparison between OS4.x and MorphOS2.x.  They appear to be retreating into a shell and don't care (or don't want to be reminded anymore) about the differences between the two similar Amiga based PPC OSes.

It is a sad fact that most of the interest in the opposite camp is critical in nature, and is only natural to want to show superiority for one's OS of choice to help promote the use of it and the growth of it's user base.

So, although I do try to limit my criticism of OS4.x and the hardware it runs on to help preserve some kind of communication open, I do occasionally compare the two PPC Amiga choices in hopes to promote more use of and development for, MorphOS2.x.
Title: Re: AmigaOne 500
Post by: Daedalus on September 21, 2011, 12:11:35 AM
Yes, there is a certain amount of competition for users that way, but they're not really on the same turf. Apart from the Peg2 they don't run on the same hardware, and neither set of developers is going to change that. New (returning) users have the choice of which OS they want to use, but it's not an equal comparison since there's a vast rift between the hardware bases. So they can choose to spend a heap of money on new hardware and AmigaOS4, or far less money on 2nd hand hardware and MorphOS, or less money again on AROS. Different people in different situations are going to go for different approaches depending on what they need or want, and seeing as there's so little overlap between the different systems, I'm sure most potential customers would end up falling into one or other system almost automatically.

Perhaps those OS4 users you say are retreating into a shell are sick and tired of being told that they made the wrong choice, that they've wasted their money, and so on. What's the point in that? I'm well aware of the differences between MOS and OS4, and I get quite fed up with it. I enjoy my hobby and don't want to be constantly given reasons again and again why I shouldn't be partaking in the way I do, why doing it the MOS way is better, cheaper and faster. I don't care, though I wouldn't consider myself having retreated into a shell. I'm just ignoring the criticisms that float my direction so I can enjoy my hobby as *I* want.
Title: Re: AmigaOne 500
Post by: amigadave on September 21, 2011, 12:37:00 AM
Quote from: Daedalus;660323
Yes, there is a certain amount of competition for users that way, but they're not really on the same turf. Apart from the Peg2 they don't run on the same hardware, and neither set of developers is going to change that. New (returning) users have the choice of which OS they want to use, but it's not an equal comparison since there's a vast rift between the hardware bases. So they can choose to spend a heap of money on new hardware and AmigaOS4, or far less money on 2nd hand hardware and MorphOS, or less money again on AROS. Different people in different situations are going to go for different approaches depending on what they need or want, and seeing as there's so little overlap between the different systems, I'm sure most potential customers would end up falling into one or other system almost automatically.

Perhaps those OS4 users you say are retreating into a shell are sick and tired of being told that they made the wrong choice, that they've wasted their money, and so on. What's the point in that? I'm well aware of the differences between MOS and OS4, and I get quite fed up with it. I enjoy my hobby and don't want to be constantly given reasons again and again why I shouldn't be partaking in the way I do, why doing it the MOS way is better, cheaper and faster. I don't care, though I wouldn't consider myself having retreated into a shell. I'm just ignoring the criticisms that float my direction so I can enjoy my hobby as *I* want.

Good answer.

I don't understand the choice to use AmigaOS4.x instead of using MorphOS2.x, but I never try to convince anyone to switch if they don't want to for personal, or emotional reasons.  I only try to point out the technical strong points and advantages of MorphOS2.x and let people make their own choices.  (at least that is what I try to keep to.  sometimes I admit to being sucked into senseless arguments, but I am getting better at avoiding them as I get older)

Since OS4 has the advantage of the name "AmigaOS", MorphOS users need to counter that advantage with regular dispersal of information about the capabilities and differences between the two competing OSes, to those returning (and some current, but uninformed) Amiga users.  I don't mean to intentionally push this info down the throats of OS4 users that have already made their choice.

I think all the variety of Amiga choices are good to have around in some ways, as different people want different Amiga-Like systems now, but it does make it harder for any company to make enough money to stay making Amiga-Like OSes and software.  It would be better if OS4, MorphOS and AROS could grow closer together and share more code than they already do (mostly just AROS & MorphOS at this moment in time).
Title: Re: AmigaOne 500
Post by: freqmax on September 21, 2011, 01:26:41 AM
So how does the application offers differ between AmigaOS4.x and MorphOS2.x ..?
Title: Re: AmigaOne 500
Post by: HotRod on September 21, 2011, 03:15:42 AM
Quote from: commodorejohn;660302
As I said earlier in the thread, I don't have an interest in OS4 myself, but I feel bad for people who do and are stuck with having to shell out $800-1200 for something that even a $100 used Mac outperforms.

That, and I resent the implication some people keep making, that people who express their disappointment that ACube's lead-on marketing stunt was only to announce their same product at the same basic price but in an ugly case are just haters, and that this (like the X1000) is automatically entitled to our adulation just for existing.


You must feal really sorry about people then, sounds nice and a bit scary at the same time to engage yourself so much in a product that does not interest you for the sake of other people. I can think that it is bad but I choose to not put more energy into something that isn't my decision. It doesn't help, it doesn't make me happy and it doesn't change anything. Or at least I try to not get engaged, depending on how well my A1 are working. If it breaks I might not be able/want to buy the 500 or X1000.
Title: Re: AmigaOne 500
Post by: HotRod on September 21, 2011, 03:16:55 AM
Quote from: pampers;660300
http://morphos-team.net/releasenotes-2.6.html ??


Yes but just for G4, right?
Title: Re: AmigaOne 500
Post by: spirantho on September 21, 2011, 08:25:11 AM
For me, my problem with MorphOS users pushing their OS isn't the way it's done, it's the timing.
In a hypothetical thread, for instance, entitled "I want an AmigaOS system and don't know what to buy!", a reasoned discussion of the MOS/AOS/AROS options is welcome.
In another hypothetical thread which may be entitled "New AmigaOne 500 released", going on about how it's overpriced and how MOS is better and yada yada yada is not welcome. If you don't like AOS 4 - fine, but don't bother us with your yelling, keep it to a thread that's about MOS.
Inidentally, I'm not hiding in any shell, despite being primarily an AOS user. I also occasionally use and develop for MOS and AROS too. I just find AOS is the best for me.

And if you feel sorry for me for spending money on brand new hardware for my hobby - don't. I'm not three years old, I know what I'm buying!
Title: Re: AmigaOne 500
Post by: ajlwalker on September 21, 2011, 08:44:26 AM
Quote from: spirantho;660360
For me, my problem with MorphOS users pushing their OS isn't the way it's done, it's the timing.
In a hypothetical thread, for instance, entitled "I want an AmigaOS system and don't know what to buy!", a reasoned discussion of the MOS/AOS/AROS options is welcome.
In another hypothetical thread which may be entitled "New AmigaOne 500 released", going on about how it's overpriced and how MOS is better and yada yada yada is not welcome. If you don't like AOS 4 - fine, but don't bother us with your yelling, keep it to a thread that's about MOS.
Inidentally, I'm not hiding in any shell, despite being primarily an AOS user. I also occasionally use and develop for MOS and AROS too. I just find AOS is the best for me.

And if you feel sorry for me for spending money on brand new hardware for my hobby - don't. I'm not three years old, I know what I'm buying!


I think this is fair comment.

At some stage I will be buying an OS4 capable machine, sadly I literally have no space for it at present.

Once I have a permanent home sorted out it will be one of the first things I buy.  Having said that, if an OS4 laptop was on the market, I'd buy it today.

I too find it amusing that so many people try to "warn" potential buyers of OS4 machines of the limitations.  I'm pretty sure all these limitations have been weighed up before the decision to buy.
Title: Re: AmigaOne 500
Post by: itix on September 21, 2011, 09:29:26 AM
Quote from: spirantho;660360
For me, my problem with MorphOS users pushing their OS isn't the way it's done, it's the timing.
In a hypothetical thread, for instance, entitled "I want an AmigaOS system and don't know what to buy!", a reasoned discussion of the MOS/AOS/AROS options is welcome.
In another hypothetical thread which may be entitled "New AmigaOne 500 released", going on about how it's overpriced and how MOS is better and yada yada yada is not welcome. If you don't like AOS 4 - fine, but don't bother us with your yelling, keep it to a thread that's about MOS.
Inidentally, I'm not hiding in any shell, despite being primarily an AOS user. I also occasionally use and develop for MOS and AROS too. I just find AOS is the best for me.

And if you feel sorry for me for spending money on brand new hardware for my hobby - don't. I'm not three years old, I know what I'm buying!


So, being AmigaOS user I am entitled to warn everyone to not buy AmigaOS =P
Title: Re: AmigaOne 500
Post by: Tripitaka on September 21, 2011, 03:59:56 PM
Quote from: ajlwalker;660362

I too find it amusing that so many people try to "warn" potential buyers of OS4 machines of the limitations.  I'm pretty sure all these limitations have been weighed up before the decision to buy.


+1, Sadly no one involved with OS4 in any way seems able to have a relevant thread without a flock of naysaying anti-OS4 types adding unwelcome and useless comments. It's nothing more than dull time wasting in between the proper comments. I notice that in MOS and AROS discussion threads people uninterested in such things just stay away (for the most part at least), I just wish those uninterested in OS4 would have the manners to do the same.