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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: TheGoose on August 12, 2011, 02:44:49 AM
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Folks, I got one of these and just got round to installing it. So far I see that the only slot that can be seen as a fixed hard drive is using the PCMICIA slot with CF adapter stuck in it.
SD or CF slots show up but are "unsupported" in HDToolbox.
So I re-read the page carefully:
http://a4000t.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=68&products_id=184
I come to understand this is all normal, that only (on an Amiga) the PCMICIA slot is recognized for a fixed device. That right? Anyone else using one, can help?
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Hey goose. Those are being sold by a member here by the name of Mechy. I remember talking to him about those things and the way it works is this;
- If you hook it up to the SCSi connector on the motherboard, you can use the CF reader as bootable AND install a PCMICA to CF reader in the PCMCIA slot fpr a second drive.
- If you hook it up to any other SCSI port, you can only use the PCMCIA slot.
I might be getting that mixed up though so drop a PM to Mechy, he'll set it all right. ;)
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Hmm, Ok I try that tonight. That sounds weird. Right now I have it as a 2nd physical device after the HD.
Thanks for the tip!
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Every bootable SCSI controller should be able to boot from every SCSI massstorage device. It does not matter to which connector you connect it or which SCSI ID it has, provided that you have termnation and jumpers set right.
IIRC there is a patch for HDToolbox available on Aminet to allow it to set up type 7 devices as harddrives. Or try HDInstTools. Or try to set up the SD/CF card on a PC with an USB card reader and WinUAE before you put it into the Amiga.
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Well, I don't claim to be an expert when it comes to SCSI. ;)
But after looking over his website I remembered it had to do with LUNS. The PCMICIA slot can be setup WITHOUT LUNS while the actual CF (and all the other slots) NEED LUNS.
That was the big difference. You could use the slot with an adapter w/o LUNS support. What does and doesn't have LUNS, how LUNS works and what LUNS is... I don't know... But I do know that was the deciding factor of which parts could and couldn't be used...
Again, PM Mechy, I could be recalling a bad hallucination FAIK...:roflmao:
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@ Thomas "IIRC there is a patch for HDToolbox available on Aminet to allow it to set up type 7 devices as harddrives. "
Thanks, that makes sense to me, being viewed as removable devices.
I did send PM to mechy too..
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A LUN is a logical unit inside the physical device. Each SCSI device can have one or more LUNs. For example a 6-way CD changer has 6 LUNs, one for each CD slot. Whenever you access one of the LUNs, the changer will move the CD from the respective slot into the CD drive so that you can read it.
In AmigaOS the LUN is usually specified in the tens place of the unit number. So if your device has SCSI ID 2, LUN 0 is unit 2, LUN 1 is unit 12, LUN 2 is unit 22 and so on.
HDToolbox actually does not know about LUNs, it just scans the unit numbers in a specific order.
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This SCSI Multicard Reader works just fine. (I think the only problem I had with was an 8GB Seagate Microdrive CF).
I mounted it on my A4000 on CSPPC's SCSI (via an 68pin to 50pin adapter).
So far I have tested CF via PCMCIA slot, CF slot, SD Slot and they all work just fine (and even Hot Swap!).
Tested also on normal CF slot an 4GB, 8GB, 16GB CFs and they all work as intended.
The only drawback is the low transfer rate (2.5MB/s) on all interfaces.
It really rocks to have one in your chain though :)
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I'm using HDInstTools 6.9 (30.10.99) and it only like the PCCard slot so far. I even put an Amiga formatted CF card from my A1000, and it does not like it. And that's what my A1000 boots from.
So, this is not a formatting issue, it's clear that the device is struggling with removable media types.
I searched Aminet but have not found any thing for type 7 devices. I searched for "removable" too but nothing useful to this case came up.
:confused:
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I've got three of them (so far) and it depends a lot on the driver.
On my 4000T it works great in multiple slots.
On the Warp Engines, the same thing as you, I need the adapter.
Yes, I've enabled LUNs and mechy has even seen it for himself. It seems to be a driver that isn't very good with LUNs.
If you don't mind the adapter they are great though.
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I replied about this to goose in PM,but i forgot to add... ALL slots will work with the proper controller and LUNS on.Some older hdtoolbox version may have troubles. Also in the icon info make sure LUNS=4 at least or hdtoolbox in some cases will not scan for luns past 0.you scsi controller must ALSO support luns(the 4091 and a4000t need the dip switches set,and 2091 needs a OPTION jumper set-6.6 roms or newer-i havent tried with older.). all slots but the boot drive slot you use are usually hot swapable but some controllers may not support diskchange correctly(also make sure reselection is on).
In some cases you also need DEVICE=SCSI and not XT in hdtoolbox icon info i recall.
the aminet patch may help with the removeable problem.
Goose didnt mention what machine,scsi controller,roms or particular card reader he has so its partly a problem with lack of info.
under 3.1 the 8gb cf may need td64/nsd stuff to work well. not sure here.
Type's of cf's can also be a problem,some cf's are set from the factory as removable only and no matter what,unless you can get a utility from the mfg and change it on a pc the card will not work.
hope this helps
mech
Folks, I got one of these and just got round to installing it. So far I see that the only slot that can be seen as a fixed hard drive is using the PCMICIA slot with CF adapter stuck in it.
SD or CF slots show up but are "unsupported" in HDToolbox.
So I re-read the page carefully:
http://a4000t.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=68&products_id=184
I come to understand this is all normal, that only (on an Amiga) the PCMICIA slot is recognized for a fixed device. That right? Anyone else using one, can help?
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I've got three of them (so far) and it depends a lot on the driver.
On my 4000T it works great in multiple slots.
On the Warp Engines, the same thing as you, I need the adapter.
Yes, I've enabled LUNs and mechy has even seen it for himself. It seems to be a driver that isn't very good with LUNs.
If you don't mind the adapter they are great though.
Given enough time i bet i can solve your warpengine problem,but time was too short and there was too much to do. others reported back with 2091 and 6.6 roms they have all slots working,so it was a matter of figuring what i missed that day :D
i have one of these 5 slot card readers working on a gvp 530 with 4.15 rom and all slots are seen and useable.
Mech
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Thank you Mechy for the responses.
1. looking at other HD tool boxes...
2. I think the A3000 SCSI does LUNs, I have the later V8 WD chip too.
EDIT--------------
I'm getting the CF card slot to work better with the old 3.1 HDToolBox program, seems to access LUNs correctly
EDIT--------------
And found this if anyone needs it:
http://m68k.aminet.net/search?query=hdtoolbox
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goose, do you have a clock battery in the 3000? its got scsi settings in nvram that may also be a issue.there is a setbatt prog on aminet to check nvram stuff.
mech
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Heya Mech, I had an idea that could maybe help out people with these drives, and anyone looking to buy one for themselves in the future.
Maybe everyone who has got and used one of these SCSI card readers can write up a little bit about how they got it to work and detail their hardware setup, then we could combine the information to make some documentation to give to people who buy the drives, and post it on the website.
I can borrow one from Rebel, and maybe with Lunithy's help we can write up how it works on the A2091, then maybe test the GVP HC-8 with it too, and I can try it with the Squirrel SCSI interface on my A1200 and A600 if I can get it to work with my CD ROM drive in my external SCSI minitower.
I wouldn't mind compiling all the info and making up some form of document to display online or print out, maybe we could even work out some kind of boot disk to help mount and format the cards for people who don't have the software already downloaded, and haven't got an easy way to transfer files to their Amiga from a PC yet (which is perhaps why they bought the SCSI card reader in the first place).
It's just an idea, but I feel it would help people out a bit and I'd like to help out in any way I can.
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So just a little more followup, for my A3000D I found this today:
1 - 3.1 HDToolBox worked with multiple slots and CF, SD and PCcard slot
(although it could not read the size of the media upon scan)
2 - Now, HDInstTool (which is more recent and updated) would only report back 'unsupported' whenever I tried the CF or SD slot. PCcard slot is fine.
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Heya Mech, I had an idea that could maybe help out people with these drives, and anyone looking to buy one for themselves in the future.
Maybe everyone who has got and used one of these SCSI card readers can write up a little bit about how they got it to work and detail their hardware setup, then we could combine the information to make some documentation to give to people who buy the drives, and post it on the website.
I can borrow one from Rebel, and maybe with Lunithy's help we can write up how it works on the A2091, then maybe test the GVP HC-8 with it too, and I can try it with the Squirrel SCSI interface on my A1200 and A600 if I can get it to work with my CD ROM drive in my external SCSI minitower.
I wouldn't mind compiling all the info and making up some form of document to display online or print out, maybe we could even work out some kind of boot disk to help mount and format the cards for people who don't have the software already downloaded, and haven't got an easy way to transfer files to their Amiga from a PC yet (which is perhaps why they bought the SCSI card reader in the first place).
It's just an idea, but I feel it would help people out a bit and I'd like to help out in any way I can.
That would be a major help cammy i had intended to write up what i tested with or do video's but seems there is always one more project and i don't get to it. some have left reviews on the shopping cart,but its usually not enough info of the setup to help much. This would be a great help if you have the time thanks!.It "should" woprk on on the hcII+8 as i think its the same controller in the gvp A530,which i have a card reader in and all slots work like a champ.
mech
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I've got several different SCSI cards, usually not the newest firmware, but it's more points of reference.
I wouldn't mind giving you feedback on each of them.
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I've got several different SCSI cards, usually not the newest firmware, but it's more points of reference.
I wouldn't mind giving you feedback on each of them.
Everyones feedback is welcome. Noting card revisions,card roms,jumper settings would help compile a accurate working list.
I figured out why the card reader didn't work at your house that day john,apparently the 2091 is a bit odd on luns,and only likes the card reader at device 0 when using all the slots. like this every slot is bootable/useable and such.
i really need to take better notes on this stuff ;) i shouldn't say its odd,but its probabaly a case of using a true scsi II device(card reader) on a scsi 1 card like the 2091. I wonder if updating the western digital proto4 chip to rev 8 would do anything like in the A3000,it makes for a proper scsi II mode in the A3k.. if i have a spare WD8 i will check it.
Mech
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"I wonder if updating the western digital proto4 chip to rev 8 would do anything like in the A3000,it makes for a proper scsi II mode in the A3k.. if i have a spare WD8 i will check it."
Mechy, I am using WD8 in my system. Maybe do a youtube video later today...
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Wow, that's really odd.
I'm going to rejumper the WarpEngine ones later today and see if that fixes my problem there. So far that only works on LUN 0, with the PCMCIA.
Now that I think about it, the 4000T didn't care for SD cards, but PCMCIA and CF work great.
I'll retry the selection of cards I have with device 0 and give a full report on PCMCIA, CF and SD slots. I've got no media for the others.
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"I wonder if updating the western digital proto4 chip to rev 8 would do anything like in the A3000,it makes for a proper scsi II mode in the A3k.. if i have a spare WD8 i will check it."
Mechy, I am using WD8 in my system. Maybe do a youtube video later today...
Good deal goose,look forward to it. be sure and post a link for us here.
Mech
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So just a little more followup, for my A3000D I found this today:
1 - 3.1 HDToolBox worked with multiple slots and CF, SD and PCcard slot
(although it could not read the size of the media upon scan)
2 - Now, HDInstTool (which is more recent and updated) would only report back 'unsupported' whenever I tried the CF or SD slot. PCcard slot is fine.
I bought one of these SCSI card readers from mechy a few months ago, just got around attaching it to my A3000 with a WD -08 in it.
Also on the scsi chain are two internal drive id 0 and 1, The card reader is on the external scsi and set to id 2, I also have a external cd rom on id 3.
to get the multiple LUNS working one needs to set the access the nvram in the A3000. I used SetBatt from fred fish disk 535, Probably can get this from aminet.
Use SetBatt to turn multiple luns on. In both of my a3000s the default was multiple luns off.
I still cannot get the a3000 to autoboot of the CF card. I have to use mounter (comes with 3.9) or SCSImount to get the partitions to mount.
someone mentioned needing to have the card reader set as and internal device to get it to card reader to autoboot. This should really not matter, but I have seen stranger things with scsi devices. I would love to get my a3000 to autoboot with the card reader,
I have two gvp scsi cards, a trumpcard, and a dataflyer. I will see if can get these to work with the card reader.
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I know this is a old thread but just an update on Mechy's scsi card reader.
Unlike the autoboot and mounting issues with a3000
both of my gvp scsi cards (2000 HC+8 and A500 HD 8+) worked flawlessly. Full automount and autoboot.
I will check the trumpcard and dataflyer
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Interesting. FYI, my 3000 with latest SCSI chip boots to the CF card reader without issue. I did need to enable LUNs to get it to recognize the CF card slot.
Also, HDToolBox did error out trying to partition the card when in the CF card slot. I used the PCMCIA adapter just to partition, format, and install the OS. Once I did that I moved the CF card directly to the CF card slot and it has worked fine since.
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SCSI / LUN support on the 3000 internal SCSI may depend on the ROM version in use...
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SCSI / LUN support on the 3000 internal SCSI may depend on the ROM version in use...
mmmm...
I was able to get the card reader to work with multiple luns both as an internal scsi device and an external device. The problem is I cannot get them to automount or autoboot, I have to use mounter or scsi mounter.
I am using a WD -08 scsi chip with 3.1 roms and 3.9 updated to the unofficial boing bag 4 and a v3.2 a3640. I wonder if the softbooted rom that comes with 3.9 bb2 or above is giving it problems, or even the 3640.... (eventhough it has never been a problem before)
I will try the card reader in an unexpanded stock 25mhz 68030 backup a3000. The only updates stuff in it are the WD -08 scsi controller, 3.1 roms and 16 megs of 32bit fast ram.
As for other scsi controllers (all tested in an a2000 with 3.1 roms and fusion forty 68040 board).
I was able to get a trumpcard pro working with the card reader to autoboot and automount but only with lun 0 (eventhough it is suppose to support multiple luns)
I was unable to get the dataflyer scsi to work at all. This is odd since it uses a similar amd scsi controller as the trumpcard. However this controller has always been finicky.
as stated in an earlier post the gvpscsi (both in the a2000 and the a500) cards worked flawlessly.... multiple lun, autoboot, and automount .
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I will try the card reader in an unexpanded stock 25mhz 68030 backup a3000. The only updates stuff in it are the WD -08 scsi controller, 3.1 roms and 16 megs of 32bit fast ram.
Well what do you know..... The card reader works flawlessly in my backup a3000.
mmmm.... Is the problem with my main a3000 hardware or software related????
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Everyones feedback is welcome. Noting card revisions,card roms,jumper settings would help compile a accurate working list.
Mech
So, has this information been gathered and given a logical home since last August? I recently acquired one of these card readers and love the concept (good job Mechy). This thread is the most useful info I've seen so far.
My goal is not necessarily to boot from CF cards, but rather, to read (and share) files through SD cards with my Palm, Mp3 player, camera, etc. Apparently, no one has done this so far? I think I'm going to need to mount a compatible file system. Formatting the various style cards with a file system only usable with Amiga has little utility for me. I'm not afraid to experiment and share results.
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LUN support has very little to do with the controller chip in question, it's 99% due to the driver (=boot ROM or embedded in Kickstart).
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I'm having problems with mine in an A3000. I have a 1 GB CF card in the CF slot. I can see the card in HDToolBox and can read the attributes and partition it. However, I can't see it in the OS at all so I can't format it and when I reboot, I get a Guru error. My OS is v3.1. Any hints? I have to remove the card in order to boot into 3.1 on my SCSI hard drive.
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What does it look like in Early Startup? Does it show the partition? Does it boot with the partition disabled?
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I'm having problems with mine in an A3000. I have a 1 GB CF card in the CF slot. I can see the card in HDToolBox and can read the attributes and partition it. However, I can't see it in the OS at all so I can't format it and when I reboot, I get a Guru error. My OS is v3.1. Any hints? I have to remove the card in order to boot into 3.1 on my SCSI hard drive.
Do you have a battery installed?It is needed to address luns.
have you turned LUNS on in the 3000? use a tool like scsiprefs from aminet to do this.you must have a battery to save scsi settings or they revert back to no luns on the next cold boot.
Hd toolbox needs to be told to check luns,check the icon info.
Try formatting the card in the pcmcia/cf adapter plugged into the pcmcia slot on the reader..Once it is setup there,you can move it to the cf slot.
Try different brand cf.
Some cf's are set to removable only and can cause trouble.. If that doesn't work you may also try patching the hdtoolbox prog with the aminet patch so it can handle removable cards better.
Anyone having trouble: please email me direct on the store. My time has been so short i don't get to the forums like i should.
thanks,
Mech
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So, has this information been gathered and given a logical home since last August? I recently acquired one of these card readers and love the concept (good job Mechy). This thread is the most useful info I've seen so far.
My goal is not necessarily to boot from CF cards, but rather, to read (and share) files through SD cards with my Palm, Mp3 player, camera, etc. Apparently, no one has done this so far? I think I'm going to need to mount a compatible file system. Formatting the various style cards with a file system only usable with Amiga has little utility for me. I'm not afraid to experiment and share results.
There is a program on aminet called scsipcmcia that used to work with the old pcd-25B scsi card readers that allowed them to use a fat formatted card in the pcmcia slot. I have not managed to get this to work on the pcd-50B. scsipcmcia was used in conjunction with fat95 to read and write fat cards. You might want to experiment with this and see if you can make it work. I ran out of time with everything going on and have not been back to it.
mech
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Well what do you know..... The card reader works flawlessly in my backup a3000.
mmmm.... Is the problem with my main a3000 hardware or software related????
Assuming termination and the scsi chain is setup right it is more than likely software. the pcd-50B will not care if it is hooked to a 030 machine, 040,or 060. the cpu really has no bearing on it.
unofficial boing bags and such could easily cause troubles here. patched scsi devices etc, you just cant be sure.
A easy way to test the machine would be boot from a clean wb3.1 floppy,then partition and setup the card.
Also,the dataflyer was not a very good scsi card, it didn't follow the scsi protocol very well. Some trumpcards seem to have lun problems but work fine on 0.rom revisions on these cards will probably have alot to do with it also. When these old cards came about more than likely there were not many lun based devices out or available for testing.
Mech
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Do you have a battery installed?It is needed to address luns.
have you turned LUNS on in the 3000? use a tool like scsiprefs from aminet to do this.you must have a battery to save scsi settings or they revert back to no luns on the next cold boot.
Hd toolbox needs to be told to check luns,check the icon info.
Try formatting the card in the pcmcia/cf adapter plugged into the pcmcia slot on the reader..Once it is setup there,you can move it to the cf slot.
Try different brand cf.
Some cf's are set to removable only and can cause trouble.. If that doesn't work you may also try patching the hdtoolbox prog with the aminet patch so it can handle removable cards better.
Anyone having trouble: please email me direct on the store. My time has been so short i don't get to the forums like i should.
thanks,
Mech
Yes, I have a working battery and LUNs are enabled. I'll email you later this evening or tomorrow. I'll need to order the pcmcia adapter.
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I'm having problems with mine in an A3000. I have a 1 GB CF card in the CF slot. I can see the card in HDToolBox and can read the attributes and partition it. However, I can't see it in the OS at all so I can't format it and when I reboot, I get a Guru error. My OS is v3.1. Any hints? I have to remove the card in order to boot into 3.1 on my SCSI hard drive.
As mechy said (and someone else earlier in the thread), I suggest partitioning and formatting your CF in the pcmcia lun 0 postition with a CF to pcmcia adapter. Once this has been perform, try the CF card in the lun 1 postion (CF slot). This seems to work best for my a3000s.
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Well what do you know..... The card reader works flawlessly in my backup a3000.
mmmm.... Is the problem with my main a3000 hardware or software related????
I found out what the problem is with my main a3000, it is not the 3640 or any of the zorro III or my prometheus. The problem appears to be an interaction between my 500 meg digital hard drive and the card reader.
I typically have several scsi devices, thank you WD for the -08 controller; two physical hard drives (a 500 meg quantum maverick, a 500 meg digital), a cd rom drive, a zip drive, and a scanner.
As I tried the card reader and removing scsi devices one my one, I found that the scsi card reader will not automount or autoboot with the digital hard drive in the scsi train. I tried all kinds of scsi configurations one internal, one external (both terminated); both internal, both external, different drives at the end (ie terminated).
The scsi card reader seems to work fine with the quantum maverick, and all the other scsi devices.
With the digital hard drive and the card reader in the train, I have to mount the card reader with mounter or scsi mounter. Very Odd.
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Ok, so I bought the PCMCIA adapter and a CF card from Mechy and tried it with my A3000D tonight (running 3.1). Here is what I did:
1. Insert CF card into adapter and insert into PCMCIA slot. Boot up.
2. Went to HDToolbox and read the configuration. It correctly saw that it was 2 GB. I created a 400 MB partition for the heck of it. I turned autoboot off on the card for now.
3. The OS saw the card find and called it SDH0: and allowed me to format it.
4. I turned the 3000 off, pulled the PCMCIA adapter, removed the CF card, and put it in the CF slot on the reader.
5. When I booted, the OS did not see the formatted card. I went into HDToolbox and the card was detected and everything.
Am I doing something wrong, or is it likely an issue with my SCSI chip or something of that nature? I had to turn autoboot off on the card because the system couldn't boot to the hard drive and OS if I didn't (don't know how to set boot priority in AmigaOS).
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Do you have multiple LUNs enabled?
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Do you have multiple LUNs enabled?
Yes, multiple LUNs are enabled.
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Ok, so I bought the PCMCIA adapter and a CF card from Mechy and tried it with my A3000D tonight (running 3.1). Here is what I did:
1. Insert CF card into adapter and insert into PCMCIA slot. Boot up.
2. Went to HDToolbox and read the configuration. It correctly saw that it was 2 GB. I created a 400 MB partition for the heck of it. I turned autoboot off on the card for now.
3. The OS saw the card find and called it SDH0: and allowed me to format it.
4. I turned the 3000 off, pulled the PCMCIA adapter, removed the CF card, and put it in the CF slot on the reader.
5. When I booted, the OS did not see the formatted card. I went into HDToolbox and the card was detected and everything.
Am I doing something wrong, or is it likely an issue with my SCSI chip or something of that nature? I had to turn autoboot off on the card because the system couldn't boot to the hard drive and OS if I didn't (don't know how to set boot priority in AmigaOS).
Does the CF card boot in the (with adapter) pcmcia lun 0?
When the CF card is in the CF slot lun 1 can you mount it with scsi mounter(can get from aminet) or mounter(comes with OS 3.9)???
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Does the CF card boot in the (with adapter) pcmcia lun 0?
When the CF card is in the CF slot lun 1 can you mount it with scsi mounter(can get from aminet) or mounter(comes with OS 3.9)???
Yes, when in the PCMCIA slot, it will try to boot from the card.
I haven't tried SCSI mounter, but I'll try that next. Thanks
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Yes, when in the PCMCIA slot, it will try to boot from the card.
I haven't tried SCSI mounter, but I'll try that next. Thanks
That is a very strange problem, i have never ran into it... many people use these on 3.9.
is the pcd50b a lower device # than the other HD?
i seem to remember os3.9 tools sometimes set the lastdrive flag and if that is after the HD it may be the problem, but i am just shooting in the dark.
It almost seems a os3.9 thing. is it possible to skip the scsi and rom updates for os3.9 and see what happens?
Worst case if you simply cannot get it to work to you're satisfaction you can return it for a refund.
thanks,
Mech
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I always put the first drive on ID1 instead of ID0 - that way I can always insert an ID0 drive without messing with the lastdrive flag. ;)
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That is a very strange problem, i have never ran into it... many people use these on 3.9.
is the pcd50b a lower device # than the other HD?
i seem to remember os3.9 tools sometimes set the lastdrive flag and if that is after the HD it may be the problem, but i am just shooting in the dark.
It almost seems a os3.9 thing. is it possible to skip the scsi and rom updates for os3.9 and see what happens?
Worst case if you simply cannot get it to work to you're satisfaction you can return it for a refund.
thanks,
Mech
I'm on 3.1, so I'm not sure if that might introduce some issues. I also don't know what SCSI chip revision I have.
I'll have to check on the device numbers, but I think the reader is a lower device number (reader is device 2 IIRC and the drive is 5 or 6).
I appreciate the offer to return it, but I also have an A2000 I can use it in so I don't think I will need to. :)
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I'm on 3.1, so I'm not sure if that might introduce some issues. I also don't know what SCSI chip revision I have.
I'll have to check on the device numbers, but I think the reader is a lower device number (reader is device 2 IIRC and the drive is 5 or 6).
I appreciate the offer to return it, but I also have an A2000 I can use it in so I don't think I will need to. :)
3.1 should be fine. You can mount with scsi mounter.
IMO 3.5 and 3.9 are not the big jumps that 3.1 was over 2.x and 2.x was over 1.x.
3.1 can do just about every thing 3.9. 3.9 is nice because it is in one CD,
check out
http://lilliput.amiga-projects.net/start.htm
Click on BetterWB