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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: LaserBack on July 29, 2011, 09:04:46 AM
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hi
I have an A1200 with + TRA1200 turboboard 8mb ram and 020/28mhz
and I have tryed a 56k modem and a lan and both works fine and I can join internet
also I tried a pcmcia/cf flash adapter and worked fine transfering data
so
how this can be possible if I have the card with 8mb ram and professedly the turboboard is pcmcia uncompatible if more of 4mb ram is used?
also I do not need any patch or hack for the reset pcmcia problem that I heard...
all the pcmcia devices works fine after reboot
can anyone explain please? thanks
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I consider this thread very interesting :) My Amiga 1200 (will unwrap it this evening) will have a 030 turbocard, also with 8MB RAM. I'll be using a PCMCIA ADF Transfer Kit, so I'am looking forward to face that issue...
However, as I've learned here in the last days, the trick might be that some expansion boards use different methods to address extra RAM and thus, do not intervene as much with the maximum address range.
Awaiting a better explaination from a hardware guru :D
- Gil
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I also have had an TRA1200 board with 8MB RAM and it was also PCMCIA friendly.
It could do everything with the PCMCIA port. However... this was only the case
with the following combination:
Kickstart ROMs 3.0 + WorkBench 3.1 -> PCMCIA WORKING!
Kickstart ROMs 3.1 + WorkBench 3.1 -> PCMCIA NOT WORKING (only with 4MB SIMM).
So I'm curious what ROMs you're using?
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Does the PCMCIA card work when you cold boot? I know it doesn't on any of mine - I need to reinsert it after the machine has booted. This is a known issue with the design of the A1200 motherboard (something to do with the card reset line being inverted or something) and can be overcome with a hardware fix, or worked around with a software fix.
The 8MB thing comes into play when an accelerator does not remap the 8MB of memory out of the Zorro-II window. As the A1200 accelerator bus only carries the first 24 bits of the address bus, the accelerator slot can only support 8MB of RAM. The more basic accelerator boards simply use this bus and so are also limited to 8MB RAM. The problem comes from the PCMCIA slot being mapped at an address 4MB into this 8MB window, so effectively it conflicts with the upper 8MB on the accelerator. So, software trying to write to the PCMCIA card will also be trying to write to the RAM above 4MB, and that's never going to end well, but you might just be lucky enough not to be using the memory at 0x0060 0000 for anything critical, and so your machine doesn't crash. It is really odd though that it works at all - you sure you don't have that accelerator jumpered to 4MB?
More advanced accelerator boards get around this by using their own 32-bit addressing, and so therefore can map the RAM to a nice safe address above the 24-bit limit. This also has the effect of allowing more than 8MB.
Anyway, neither of those issues are myths, they are hard facts which can be seen from the A1200 schematics. It's possible you're just very lucky and your hardware doesn't need the PCMCIA reset signal, and some odd configuration thing lets the accelerator and PCMCIA play nicely...
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I also have had an TRA1200 board with 8MB RAM and it was also PCMCIA friendly.
It could do everything with the PCMCIA port. However... this was only the case
with the following combination:
Kickstart ROMs 3.0 + WorkBench 3.1 -. PCMCIA WORKING!
Kickstart ROMs 3.1 + WorkBench 3.1 -. PCMCIA NOT WORKING (only with 4MB SIMM).
So I'm curious what ROMs you're using?
I'm using roms 3.0
however if softkick to kick3.1 using skick pcmcia do not works anymore
so I calculate there is some kind of strange issue on kickstart 3.1
also for games it is better and compatible stay with kick 3.0
some floppy game like GODS do not work with kick 3.1 but works fine with kick 3.0
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Does the PCMCIA card work when you cold boot? I know it doesn't on any of mine - I need to reinsert it after the machine has booted. This is a known issue with the design of the A1200 motherboard (something to do with the card reset line being inverted or something) and can be overcome with a hardware fix, or worked around with a software fix.
The 8MB thing comes into play when an accelerator does not remap the 8MB of memory out of the Zorro-II window. As the A1200 accelerator bus only carries the first 24 bits of the address bus, the accelerator slot can only support 8MB of RAM. The more basic accelerator boards simply use this bus and so are also limited to 8MB RAM. The problem comes from the PCMCIA slot being mapped at an address 4MB into this 8MB window, so effectively it conflicts with the upper 8MB on the accelerator. So, software trying to write to the PCMCIA card will also be trying to write to the RAM above 4MB, and that's never going to end well, but you might just be lucky enough not to be using the memory at 0x0060 0000 for anything critical, and so your machine doesn't crash. It is really odd though that it works at all - you sure you don't have that accelerator jumpered to 4MB?
More advanced accelerator boards get around this by using their own 32-bit addressing, and so therefore can map the RAM to a nice safe address above the 24-bit limit. This also has the effect of allowing more than 8MB.
Anyway, neither of those issues are myths, they are hard facts which can be seen from the A1200 schematics. It's possible you're just very lucky and your hardware doesn't need the PCMCIA reset signal, and some odd configuration thing lets the accelerator and PCMCIA play nicely...
I'm using 8mb the board is jumpered to use 8mb ....I can jump it to use 4mb and works also
btw,
I don't know what is cold reboot...if you can explain
I reboot the computer using the amigakeys and the pcmcia cards are still working ...so maybe the reset bug apply to certain pcmcia devices and other pcmcia devices are not affected
all of this is rare
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Cold/Hard reboot/reset = turning the power off and back on again.
Warm/Soft reboot/reset = using the Amiga Keys to restart the Amiga.
As was earlier posted, you can tell if you have the hardware fix already done if:
1) you leave the PCMICA card in the slot
2) do a cold start on the Amiga
3) The card works!
If it doesn't work, you don't have the fix.
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Cold/Hard reboot/reset = turning the power off and back on again.
Warm/Soft reboot/reset = using the Amiga Keys to restart the Amiga.
As was earlier posted, you can tell if you have the hardware fix already done if:
1) you leave the PCMICA card in the slot
2) do a cold start on the Amiga
3) The card works!
If it doesn't work, you don't have the fix.
ok I have tested the 56k modem and the cf flash adapter with a cold reset...both cards works fine...no need to remove and insert again
I haven't tested the lan cause I haven't it right now...but I'm sure will work without any fix or patch
btw, my A1200 is original never was fixed or dismounted from the case....the blind armor is still there and never was removed for anything...I only disarmed the computer to connect the hardisk or to clean the floppy drive
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It depends on the card. Some (most?) cards will let your PCMCIA work just fine.
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It depends on the card. Some (most?) cards will let your PCMCIA work just fine.
This hits it. I used an A1200 for years with a DKB '030 card, with at least 32Mb of RAM (up to 128Mb), and a Squirrel SCSI or LAn card in the PCMCIA slot. I used 3.1 ROMs with 3.1 or 3.5OS. Everything worked fine.
It all depends on the card, AND where the RAM is mapped. AFAIR the 4Mb problem was only with early cards....
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how this can be possible if I have the card with 8mb ram and professedly the turboboard is pcmcia uncompatible if more of 4mb ram is used?
Only PCMCIA RAM cards should cause a conflict as PCMCIA IO cards are mapped to a different area of memory outside the 8mb allocated to fast ram.
000000 to 1FFFFF 2 MB Chip RAM(or system ROM overlay)
200000 to 5FFFFF 4 MB Zorro II expansion space
600000 to 9FFFFF 4 MB Credit Card memory if CC present
AOOOOO to A1FFFF 128 KB Credit Card Attributes
A20000 to A3FFFF 128 KB Credit Card I/O
A40000 to A5FFFF 128 KB Credit Card Bits (similar to CDTV)
A60000 to A7FFFF 128 KB PC I/O
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Only PCMCIA RAM cards should cause a conflict as PCMCIA IO cards are mapped to a different area of memory outside the 8mb allocated to fast ram.
000000 to 1FFFFF 2 MB Chip RAM(or system ROM overlay)
200000 to 5FFFFF 4 MB Zorro II expansion space
600000 to 9FFFFF 4 MB Credit Card memory if CC present
AOOOOO to A1FFFF 128 KB Credit Card Attributes
A20000 to A3FFFF 128 KB Credit Card I/O
A40000 to A5FFFF 128 KB Credit Card Bits (similar to CDTV)
A60000 to A7FFFF 128 KB PC I/O
As said above, it is possible to have more than 4MB fastram together with PCMCIA cards however it won't be in one continuos adress space, don't know exactly what that limitiation will do, anyone?
Here's an even funnier peice of kit in my collection... it support 9MB and PCMCIA compability: http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/alfaram1200
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Almost all CPU/RAM cards address their memory totally compatible with PCMCIA, but there are a few 030's that don't. Probably any 020/RAM card would conflict..
It is interesting that it seems that "conflicting" setups don't seem to conflict if your ROM is 3.0.
So, if you're going to be running Workbench 3.1 would you actually want a 3.1 ROM?
I've heard "fixes," and "you need it for 3.5 and on"..
But is it worth it?
I have a ACA1230/28 now, so it wouldn't matter to me.. But still..
desiv
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The need for the PCMCIA reset fix depends on the PCMCIA card. For example, most 3Com ethernet cards don't need the fix in normal circumstances, but the fix may be needed when rebooting after a crash (because the card wasn't shut down).
@Daedalus
Why don't you use the software fix to avoid wear and tear on your PCMCIA slot? :-)
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@Daedalus
Why don't you use the software fix to avoid wear and tear on your PCMCIA slot? :-)
I do :) I guess I should've used the past tense in that post...
Interesting stuff there though - I've never had an accelerator that wasn't PCMCIA compatible so I've never personally encountered the issue, but I know of plenty who have had them. It doesn't really come down to the CPU on the accelerator, but the basic design of the board. I have an 020/28 which maps the memory in Zorro III space, yet plenty of the cheaper 030 boards don't, and are therefore susceptible to this issue. I was pretty sure though that PCMCIA cards like the Squirrel SCSI card used the memory space for doing its I/O and therefore wasn't compatible with the 8MB boards... Must go back and look at that.
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I consider this thread very interesting :) My Amiga 1200 (will unwrap it this evening) will have a 030 turbocard, also with 8MB RAM. I'll be using a PCMCIA ADF Transfer Kit, so I'am looking forward to face that issue...
However, as I've learned here in the last days, the trick might be that some expansion boards use different methods to address extra RAM and thus, do not intervene as much with the maximum address range.
Awaiting a better explaination from a hardware guru :D
- Gil
it seems that if you have kickstart 3.0 on your A1200 the pcmcia slot will works fine with your new turboboard
but if your A1200 have kickstart 3.1 the pcmcia slot will not works if you have 8mb ram...will work only with 4mb
I think is a serious bug in Kicstart 3.1 or commodore did it purposely to avoid conflicts with pcmcia ram cards......anyways was a stupid mistake cause lots of devices works ok
please post your results later when your turboboard arrives
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This thread is very interesting. In all the amiga years I've never heard of this 3.0 v 3.1 rom with pcmcia. Pretty cool, we need more research and posts in regards to this please. Its valuable to the amiga community.
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I think is a serious bug in Kicstart 3.1 or commodore did it purposely to avoid conflicts with pcmcia ram cards......anyways was a stupid mistake cause lots of devices works ok
I might be wrong but I seem to recall reading in the 3.1 release notes that come with the NDK that they did do it on purpose.
It was a stupid mistake because PCMCIA IO cards should be 100% compatible with 8mb of fast ram in the Zorro II space. It's only PCMCIA RAM cards that would ever have a problem & why would you bother with those if you had >4mb of RAM anyway?
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I might be wrong but I seem to recall reading in the 3.1 release notes that come with the NDK that they did do it on purpose.
It was a stupid mistake because PCMCIA IO cards should be 100% compatible with 8mb of fast ram in the Zorro II space. It's only PCMCIA RAM cards that would ever have a problem & why would you bother with those if you had >4mb of RAM anyway?
I agree with you...
was really stupid..why you will insert a slow pcmcia ram card if you have 8m fast ram......
what kind of dumb will insert that to slowdown the systrem?
anyways we're not talking about pcmcia cf flash adapters or ethernet cards that not existed in 1993
they forgot modems, squirrel scsi,scanners and other devices that would operate very well on the era
and the big problem is that this mistake affects to all A1200 ram-boards,all 020 turboboards and some 030 turboboards....
in other words....affects the vast majority of the A1200 out there
also there is another stupidity.... on KICKSTART 3.1 they modified something related to ready signal...and some floppy games that worked on kick 3.0 not works on kick 3.1.....even with original amiga drives....anyways this can be solved by software using relokick,skick or any other sofkicker
btw, where are those kick 3.1 'release notes?
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Dunno about PCMCIA - but any CPU board carrying an '020 or '030 opens up 32 bit address space. As long as the RAM is configured to extended RAM space (> 16 MB) there's little change for PCMCIA collisions.