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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: Pyromania on July 19, 2011, 09:14:05 PM

Title: Has anyone tried on of these on thier Amiga?
Post by: Pyromania on July 19, 2011, 09:14:05 PM
They list it as working well to allow Amiga's to work well with modern flat panel televisions.


http://cgi.ebay.com/15Khz-RGB-CGA-Component-Video-VGA-Converter-Scaler-/260318558142?_trksid=p4340.m8&_trkparms=algo%3DMW%26its%3DC%26itu%3DUCC%26otn%3D5%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D1459101766805676591

I'm looking to buy one of they work well.
Title: Re: Has anyone tried on of these on thier Amiga?
Post by: alexh on July 19, 2011, 09:14:57 PM
If I had money for every time someone posted about them I'd be rich.

They are shite. They are only 16-bit which means you loose colours in AGA. They promote PAL screens to 60Hz which means that you loose smooth scrolling.

There are better, cheaper alternatives out there.
Title: Re: Has anyone tried on of these on thier Amiga?
Post by: Franko on July 19, 2011, 09:25:41 PM
Quote from: alexh;650657
If I had money for every time someone posted about them I'd be rich.

They are shite. They are only 16-bit which means you loose colours in AGA. They promote PAL screens to 60Hz which means that you loose smooth scrolling.

There are better, cheaper alternatives out there.


Gotta agree with that, if you want a decent convertor your gonna have to pay through the nose for one. Worth the money though if it's something you use all the time and value the best picture quality... :)

I always buy such things from Keene Electronics, quality made and built to last for years but you're looking at around £100 minimum for their basic stuff... :)

http://Keen Electronics/ (http://www.keene.co.uk/)
Title: Re: Has anyone tried on of these on thier Amiga?
Post by: desiv on July 19, 2011, 09:41:22 PM
All true, but there are a few levels to the question..
Are they great devices?
As answered above, no.  You will lose some colors and you loose something in the PAL transition..
The other side of that question is how well do they work other than that?
Yes, you lose color, but how badly?
Yes, you lose smooth scrolling in PAL conversion, but you can use PAL games then?
They might still be worth it depending on what someone is looking for..

Personally, at that price tho, I doubt it..
With those short-comings, I'd still be very tempted at $50 or so...  Just to have them..

I went with an Amigamaniac SVIDEO adapter, and then an SVIDEO to VGA adapter.
Unfortunatly, the model of SVIDEO to VGA adapter I bought was bad, but there are good ones out there, and the results are pretty good I think.  Still not Indivision, but.. nothing is at that price..

And for all of that, I then got a few 1084S monitors, which I'm very happy with.

Go figure.. ;-)

desiv
Title: Re: Has anyone tried on of these on thier Amiga?
Post by: giZmo350 on July 19, 2011, 09:43:13 PM
More MOD Shananigans! :roflmao: Yeah, like Pyromania with his over 1100 posts doesn't know that! Even Franko fell for it! :hammer:

Quote from: Pyromania;650656
They list it as working well to allow Amiga's to work well with modern flat panel televisions.


http://cgi.ebay.com/15Khz-RGB-CGA-Component-Video-VGA-Converter-Scaler-/260318558142?_trksid=p4340.m8&_trkparms=algo%3DMW%26its%3DC%26itu%3DUCC%26otn%3D5%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D1459101766805676591

I'm looking to buy one of they work well.
Title: Re: Has anyone tried on of these on thier Amiga?
Post by: Heiroglyph on July 19, 2011, 09:59:14 PM
But for just setting up a system until you get RTG up and running, I'm sure they are fine.

I'd rather have one than the rarely used 1084 on my desk.
Title: Re: Has anyone tried on of these on thier Amiga?
Post by: orb85750 on July 19, 2011, 10:05:22 PM
Quote from: Heiroglyph;650673
But for just setting up a system until you get RTG up and running, I'm sure they are fine.

I'd rather have one than the rarely used 1084 on my desk.


Hey don't be badmouthin' the 1084.  I rather like it.
Title: Re: Has anyone tried on of these on thier Amiga?
Post by: desantii on July 19, 2011, 10:15:14 PM
I used this one and it works relatively good
 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230623195622&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT
 
Here is my desktop in high res
 
(http://i419.photobucket.com/albums/pp278/desantii/DSC00181.jpg)
Title: Re: Has anyone tried on of these on thier Amiga?
Post by: utri007 on July 19, 2011, 10:40:58 PM
Is this becaus US tvs doesn't have scart connectors???

I've use my samsung TV ages now through scart, picture quality is really good
Title: Re: Has anyone tried on of these on thier Amiga?
Post by: Franko on July 19, 2011, 10:45:38 PM
Quote from: gizmo350;650670
More MOD Shananigans! :roflmao: Yeah, like Pyromania with his over 1100 posts doesn't know that! Even Franko fell for it! :hammer:


If that wee jobbie is taking the Michael here, I'll have his guts for breakfast... :furious:

Oi... Pyro are you taking the P again... :madashell:

The SNP is on Red Alert and standing by ready to launch an all out nut chewin frenzy if this is another bloody wind up.... :flame::biglaugh::destroy:

Sigh... what's this place coming to these days, bloody nuthouse so it is, this is a SERIOUS computer forum for SERIOUS antique computer users not Krusty's Ruddy Fun House... get a grip for gawds sake... :(

Oh look another nice shiny TeaSpoon...

My there's a bubble and it's square...

Show me the waaay to go hoome...
Title: Re: Has anyone tried on of these on thier Amiga?
Post by: runequester on July 19, 2011, 11:20:46 PM
I had one of those until it died during an apartment move.

Upsides:

Its cheaper than an indivision (and you can actually buy it)
You can use a cheap off-the-shelf monitor
Its pretty decent. Certainly fine for gaming.

Downsides:

A bit of ghosting appears. In games you probably won't notice, but on workbench, it can be annoying.
I thought scrolling was fine, but occasionally it can be a tiny bit glitchy.
These are not very noticeable though.
It does NOT play nice with interlace modes at all. About half the time I try it, the picture is garbled, and half the time it looks great.

General info:
They produce a nicer picture on a CRT than on an LCD


In the end, while there might be better options, this is certainly usable and I used one daily for a year or so, without any fuss. The loss of image quality is not really that bad.

edit: and yes, no SCART in the US.
1084's are cool but they are also getting old. Considering the cost of shipping the blighters, Im not sure if its worth it.
Title: Re: Has anyone tried on of these on thier Amiga?
Post by: alexh on July 22, 2011, 10:20:27 PM
Quote from: desantii;650676
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230623195622&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

24-bit and known to work well with classic computers.
Title: Re: Has anyone tried on of these on thier Amiga?
Post by: alexh on July 22, 2011, 10:24:02 PM
Quote from: desiv;650669
Yes, you lose color, but how badly?
Look at the 2 images below. The first one is 24-bit, the second 16-bit. You see the banding? Perhaps you'd never notice it? I would.

(http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/2760/bittest24tv2.png)(http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/3656/bittest16jr1.png)

Quote from: desiv;650669
Yes, you lose smooth scrolling in PAL conversion, but you can use PAL games then?
Sure but they look rubbish.

Quote from: desiv;650669
With those short-comings, I'd still be very tempted at $50 or so...  Just to have them..
But for $34 you can use a different one which is 24-bit!
Title: Re: Has anyone tried on of these on thier Amiga?
Post by: XDelusion on July 22, 2011, 10:27:15 PM
WOW! Looks like hell in 16.
Title: Re: Has anyone tried on of these on thier Amiga?
Post by: desiv on July 22, 2011, 10:32:15 PM
Quote from: alexh
You see the banding? Perhaps you'd never notice it? I would.
I can see the difference, but I'm not sure it would bother me too much.
I remember using my Amiga with an A520 composite adapter...  ;-)
Quote from: alexh;651229
But for $34 you can use a different one which is 24-bit!

Yes, that would be MUCH better!!!  :-)

desiv
Title: Re: Has anyone tried on of these on thier Amiga?
Post by: alexh on July 22, 2011, 10:34:42 PM
This is just an extreme representation.

You don't "loose" colours, they round to their nearest neighbouring colour. AGA only has 256 palette entries. It is unlikely that games will choose all 256 entries to be shades of red for example.

But if they did, subtle shades are lost through rounding errors and are displayed as their nearest neighbour.
Title: Re: Has anyone tried on of these on thier Amiga?
Post by: ChaosLord on July 22, 2011, 10:58:53 PM
Yes you do LOSE colors when displaying AGA on a 16-bit display.  In fact, over 99% of all the colors are LOST.  They are GONE.  Eradicated.   Looks like crap.  Utterly useless.
Title: Re: Has anyone tried on of these on thier Amiga?
Post by: Tripitaka on July 22, 2011, 11:12:04 PM
Quote from: ChaosLord;651236
Yes you do LOSE colors when displaying AGA on a 16-bit display.  In fact, over 99% of all the colors are LOST.  They are GONE.  Eradicated.   Looks like crap.  Utterly useless.


Well put ChaosLord. Remember folks for each bit lost, your down by half the colours. That's colo-U-rs dammit, f'ing spellchecker, I'm British..... sorry, getting a bit side tracked on a rant just for a mo...anyway, yes , half your colours, 8 times over, and as the man above says, you've lost most of them.
Title: Re: Has anyone tried on of these on thier Amiga?
Post by: Tripitaka on July 22, 2011, 11:24:32 PM
Quote from: alexh;651233
This is just an extreme representation.

You don't "loose" colours, they round to their nearest neighbouring colour. AGA only has 256 palette entries. It is unlikely that games will choose all 256 entries to be shades of red for example.

But if they did, subtle shades are lost through rounding errors and are displayed as their nearest neighbour.


True to a point, but keep in mind that even if only (for example) 3 shades of red are used, the chances are that even the loss of one of them can look real bad. Try drawing a circle in a paint package with a set 4 colour palette, white, red and two in betweens. Now edit the palette so that the two in betweens are the same colour by altering one to make it match the other, you'll see what I mean. It's not nice and it's not just a loss of subtlety.
Title: Re: Has anyone tried on of these on thier Amiga?
Post by: Hessu on July 22, 2011, 11:27:29 PM
I have done various tests with this piece of s*it, and i wouldn't recommend it to anyone and i agree with alexh, better option with less money.

 Yes, you can use that, it does work with monitors, but the quality is even less than you get with A520 on old TV, i wrote an article at Amibay about it, some time ago, with screenshots. If you get it free or let's say for 5€ (max price for that and still it's a robbery :)) and you are not picky about colors, then maybe.
Title: Re: Has anyone tried on of these on thier Amiga?
Post by: desiv on July 22, 2011, 11:29:30 PM
Quote from: Tripitaka;651241
True to a point, but keep in mind that even if only (for example) 3 shades of red are used, the chances are that even the loss of one of them can look real bad. .
But as I understand it, you loose 1 of those three shades, it won't disappear.  It will be replaced by a shade that is "close" in the 16-bit range...
Is that likely something that will be noticed a lot?
I think it depends on the viewer and what's happening.  With photographs, more so..
With games, probably not as much...

Now, 24-bit is better, but 16 is no slouch..  :-)

IMHO

Case in point:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_depth
They don't even have a 16-bit pic, the the 8-bit pic looks very similar to the 24-bit pic to me..
Now, when I look, I can see the difference, but at first glance, not so much..

desiv
Title: Re: Has anyone tried on of these on thier Amiga?
Post by: Tripitaka on July 22, 2011, 11:42:25 PM
On some games, true, you'll barely notice, on others...yuck! It all depends on how the colours got used in the first place. as a general rule, lots of strongly different colours will be OK, subtle graduation will not. Truth is, I can't tolerate any loss of tone, hue or saturation in any way shape or form. I've done a lot of digital remastering (mostly martial arts movies) and I notice these things. I'm the guy who cringes when someone watches TV in the wrong aspect ratio or, god forbid, doesn't even bother doing the set up with proper colour bars. I also calibrate my printer and scanner to my monitor ...
... maybe I'm a little anal about these things but hey, we all have our quirks.
Title: Re: Has anyone tried on of these on thier Amiga?
Post by: Franko on July 22, 2011, 11:48:31 PM
Quote from: Tripitaka;651249
... maybe I'm a little anal about these things but hey, we all have our quirks.


You're not alone, every TV & monitor I've ever owned whether bought brand new or second hand, I've always taken the back of it to physically adjust the rings on the tube to get the perfect picture and adjust all the pots to make everything spot on... :)

The trouble with old CRT's when manufactured is they were only set to be adjusted to an "acceptable" standard that most folk would be satisfied with, while fussy buggers like me had to risk electrocution and do it ourselves to get the very best out of them... :)
Title: Re: Has anyone tried on of these on thier Amiga?
Post by: _ThEcRoW on July 23, 2011, 12:10:28 AM
But these adapters i see that have the YpCbCr connection type for components, and the amiga has composite out, so, how can one take out composite signal from the Amiga?. Using the 23 pin rgb port?. The reason i'm asking, is because i have already one of the vga boxes for connecting consoles that lack vga out to a lcd monitor, like the wii, and knowing how to get the component from the miggy i could be plugging my a1200 desktop directly to the tft monitor i have.
Thanks in advance!!!
Title: Re: Has anyone tried on of these on thier Amiga?
Post by: desiv on July 23, 2011, 12:24:29 AM
These boxes need you to pull RGB and sync from your 23pin video out...

desiv
Title: Re: Has anyone tried on of these on thier Amiga?
Post by: stefcep2 on July 23, 2011, 02:26:08 AM
Quote from: desiv;651264
These boxes need you to pull RGB and sync from your 23pin video out...

desiv



Meaning what? Impossible? Difficult? Easy?
Title: Re: Has anyone tried on of these on thier Amiga?
Post by: stefcep2 on July 23, 2011, 02:50:03 AM
I had the cv643d scan doubler that was 16 bit on an A4000.  Never noticed that it was missing colors.
Title: Re: Has anyone tried on of these on thier Amiga?
Post by: desiv on July 23, 2011, 02:59:22 AM
Depends on how good you are at soldering...
It's something I could do, so I'd classify it as easy, but not simple.  ;-)

I am NOT any good with a soldering iron, but I can attach wires to things.  

desiv
Title: Re: Has anyone tried on of these on thier Amiga?
Post by: jkonstan on July 23, 2011, 03:49:28 PM
In general, does the Gonbes MODEL GBS-8220 CGA/EGA/YUV TO VGA CONVERTER
(http://cgi.ebay.com/ARCADE-RGB-CGA-EGA-YUV-VGA-HD-VIDEO-CONVERTER-BOARD-/140521303998?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20b7b8efbe) work with the Analog RGB output from the Amiga DB23 video output connector or just the one in the link that was listed
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230623195622&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT
Title: Re: Has anyone tried on of these on thier Amiga?
Post by: alexh on July 23, 2011, 05:55:01 PM
Quote from: stefcep2;651278
Meaning what? Impossible? Difficult? Easy?
Easy. Simple wired cable