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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: Heiroglyph on June 27, 2011, 06:26:30 PM

Title: Most bullet-proof drive solution?
Post by: Heiroglyph on June 27, 2011, 06:26:30 PM
For desktop (mostly development, so lots of writes) use on either a 4000D or 4000T, what is the most reliable, but still fast drive configuration to use?

Preferably one that avoids as many drive size issues as possible, with any known connection type, I'll buy whatever I need to.

OS3.1 with what patches? 3.5? 3.9?
IDE, SCSI, USB, other?
Built-in controller?  Add on controller?
CF vs. thumb drive vs traditional spinning platters?
Can you constantly write to CF without wearing out the drive?
Do I need to use only tiny 2-4GB drives?
What filesystem?
Partition sizes?

I just want to stop worrying about errors, data loss and lockups, it's killing the fun of using the system.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Most bullet-proof drive solution?
Post by: the_leander on June 27, 2011, 06:48:37 PM
I would have thought something like a couple of high speed compact flash cards, one to use and the other as a backup (maybe with a script to periodically sync the two) would be your best bet.
Title: Re: Most bullet-proof drive solution?
Post by: Crumb on June 27, 2011, 06:55:34 PM
Quote from: Heiroglyph;647342
For desktop (mostly development, so lots of writes) use on either a 4000D or 4000T, what is the most reliable, but still fast drive configuration to use?


First of all I wouldn't use old 4GB drives because these are prone to errors due to their age... many of them are 13 years old. CF is said to work well and although it's supposed to degrade with writtings but I guess you'll be able to use it happily a lot of time.

Built in scsi driver will recognize without problems the first 4GB so play safe and create the OS partitions in the first 4GB. If you use a big disk make for example 4 900MB FFS partitions then create your "WORK" partition starting from the 5th GB. That way you can be 100% sure you won't overwrite the contents because if the updated scsi driver that allows accessing more than 4GB is not loaded you won't see work so no problems. You could run into problems if your partition is between the first 4GB and the next GBs.

on A4000T on board scsi works great. It's reliable but if you are unsure about you scsi configuration skills you'd better go for an IDE*drive or simply get a proper cable with proper termination.

It doesn't matter much if you use 3.1, 3.5 or 3.9 but you should have up to date scsi.device&FileSystem.resource, FastFileSystem... you can load the modules you require with Blizzkick.

If you want the easiest: <4GB IDE*CF drive with 3.1. But only if you are really paranoid.

Avoid Zorro hard disk controllers. Use accelerator controller or motherboard controller but not crappy ZorroII ones. ZorroIII ones like cbm one or Fastlane... well... get an accelerator and forget about them.

If I were you I would get a scsi-ide (or scsi-sata) adapter and make good use of the built in scsi controller.

Keep in mind that 3.9 updated scsi.devices are buggy and limited to 128GB, if you want to use more you'll have to update it. It also affects real scsi controller on A4000T so if you want to avoid problems use a 120GB*drive. These are getting old too but 4GB*ones are worse :-)
Title: Re: Most bullet-proof drive solution?
Post by: Heiroglyph on June 27, 2011, 06:57:52 PM
Quote from: the_leander;647348
I would have thought something like a couple of high speed compact flash cards, one to use and the other as a backup (maybe with a script to periodically sync the two) would be your best bet.
My issue is read/write errors, I've been plagued with them.

I can't get through compiling something without either a lockup or an error, but anything that hits the drives hard like copying files will cause it.

As it stands, I'd likely corrupt my backup by backing up.

So I'm basically picking people's brains on exactly what is reliable in as much detail as possible.
Title: Re: Most bullet-proof drive solution?
Post by: nicholas on June 27, 2011, 07:01:05 PM
I use an SDHC Card fitted to an IDE Adapter, which in turn is connected to an IDE to SCSI bridge, which in turn is fitted to my CyberSCSI Mk2.

It works nice and fast, silent and stable too.

You might want to use PFS too.
Title: Re: Most bullet-proof drive solution?
Post by: Iggy on June 27, 2011, 07:12:56 PM
Quote from: nicholas;647351
I use an SDHC Card fitted to an IDE Adapter, which in turn is connected to an IDE to SCSI bridge, which in turn is fitted to my CyberSCSI Mk2.

It works nice and fast, silent and stable too.

You might want to use PFS too.

That's the first recommendation I've heard for SDHC. Others have told me its less reliable then Compact Flash.
Thanks Nicholas. I think I might like to try something like that on my Powermac.
Title: Re: Most bullet-proof drive solution?
Post by: the_leander on June 27, 2011, 07:13:41 PM
Quote from: Heiroglyph;647350
My issue is read/write errors, I've been plagued with them.

I can't get through compiling something without either a lockup or an error, but anything that hits the drives hard like copying files will cause it.

As it stands, I'd likely corrupt my backup by backing up.

So I'm basically picking people's brains on exactly what is reliable in as much detail as possible.


Are you sure you're setting the right data rates for the device? IIRC if you had them set too high all you got was errors on mechanical drives, I can't imagine it being any different for solid state.

For ultimate reliability mirrored raid would be your best bet. Along with hot backups on external drives, online sources such as box.net and then of course optical media is useful as a backup solution.

-edit-

Also, be careful about what brands of CF cards you get, they're not created equally.
Title: Re: Most bullet-proof drive solution?
Post by: Heiroglyph on June 27, 2011, 07:15:13 PM
That is very helpful, you said several things I was unaware of.

Quote from: Crumb;647349
First of all I wouldn't use old 4GB drives because these are prone to errors due to their age... many of them are 13 years old.


I've avoided this, but that puts me into huge (in Amiga terms) drives in most cases.

Quote

CF is said to work well and although it's supposed to degrade with writtings but I guess you'll be able to use it happily a lot of time.

By degrade, do you mean slower, or r/w errors?

Quote

Built in scsi driver will recognize without problems the first 4GB so play safe and create the OS partitions in the first 4GB. If you use a big disk make for example 4 900MB FFS partitions then create your "WORK" partition starting from the 5th GB. That way you can be 100% sure you won't overwrite the contents because if the updated scsi driver that allows accessing more than 4GB is not loaded you won't see work so no problems. You could run into problems if your partition is between the first 4GB and the next GBs.


What I've been doing with any drive is not using a full 4GB, period.  I'm wasting practically the entire drive.

This is a very scary subject.  Can I use my Deneb card to boot with the updates already in place from the start?

Quote

on A4000T on board scsi works great. It's reliable but if you are unsure about you scsi configuration skills you'd better go for an IDE*drive or simply get a proper cable with proper termination.


That's good to hear, although it doesn't play nice with my Deneb if DMA is enabled.

I'm confident with SCSI and willing to buy new cables and active terminators just to be sure.

I'm just about to buy one of the GVP 4060-DT's from Software Hut assuming they still have them (I think I may have had some CPU card issues)

Is that controller reliable?

Quote

It doesn't matter much if you use 3.1, 3.5 or 3.9 but you should have up to date scsi.device&FileSystem.resource, FastFileSystem... you can load the modules you require with Blizzkick.

If you want the easiest: <4GB IDE*CF drive with 3.1. But only if you are really paranoid.


I'm pretty paranoid at this point, like I said, I'm not using a full 4GB with 3.9 on SCSI, IDE and USB right now and they are all disastrously bad.

Quote

Avoid Zorro hard disk controllers. Use accelerator controller or motherboard controller but not crappy ZorroII ones. ZorroIII ones like cbm one or Fastlane... well... get an accelerator and forget about them.

If I were you I would get a scsi-ide (or scsi-sata) adapter and make good use of the built in scsi controller.

Keep in mind that 3.9 updated scsi.devices are buggy and limited to 128GB, if you want to use more you'll have to update it. It also affects real scsi controller on A4000T so if you want to avoid problems use a 120GB*drive. These are getting old too but 4GB*ones are worse :-)


What scsi.device do you suggest using for the onboard 4000T?  I assumed 3.9 was the good stuff and that tweaking all the devices and libs would be a bad idea.  Sometimes you can tweak them into instability, you know?

Do you know what I should use for the GVP 4060?

Thanks for the details, this is great.
Title: Re: Most bullet-proof drive solution?
Post by: Heiroglyph on June 27, 2011, 07:23:06 PM
Quote from: the_leander;647354
Are you sure you're setting the right data rates for the device? IIRC if you had them set too high all you got was errors on mechanical drives, I can't imagine it being any different for solid state.

For ultimate reliability mirrored raid would be your best bet. Along with hot backups on external drives, online sources such as box.net and then of course optical media is useful as a backup solution.

-edit-

Also, be careful about what brands of CF cards you get, they're not created equally.


I've been aware of the max transfer and mask and tried to set them correctly.

I've seen several options proposed that were similar, but not quite the same.  So far none of them have cleared up my problems, but I wouldn't rule it out.

It's a situation where I thought I knew what I was doing, it's just not quite working as expected, so I don't really trust anything I think I know at this point.

It's networked to my server, so I could back up to there.  I still need to see if an svn client is available for Amiga too, I just haven't made it far enough to need it yet.
Title: Re: Most bullet-proof drive solution?
Post by: Heiroglyph on June 27, 2011, 07:26:56 PM
Quote from: nicholas;647351
I use an SDHC Card fitted to an IDE Adapter, which in turn is connected to an IDE to SCSI bridge, which in turn is fitted to my CyberSCSI Mk2.

It works nice and fast, silent and stable too.

You might want to use PFS too.


All those adapters seem pretty scary, but if it works...

I tried an IDE to SATA but I can't get it to recognize on any of my systems.  Probably just not a compatible adapter.

I did give SFS a shot, that didn't work out any better than FFS from what I could tell.  If anything went wrong, I had trouble accessing the drive too.

Is PFS more reliable?  Is it painful to set up?
Title: Re: Most bullet-proof drive solution?
Post by: the_leander on June 27, 2011, 07:30:28 PM
Ok, so what do you have now, and what are their symptoms?

Without knowing what's going on with your system atm, anything suggested could only exacerbate the issues you're suffering with, not to mention make it harder to pin down their causes.

On the basics, platters will last longer before developing errors, but are slower and difficult to find in "low" capacities, especially new. Solid state such as SDHC and CF are readily available but tend to give up much more quickly than traditional platters unless you're paying out serious bank. USB.... Just don't go there unless you have to as far as booting goes, it'll slow your system down due to all the interrupts created during transfers and really offers you nothing over what you'd get with either CF or SDHC.
Title: Re: Most bullet-proof drive solution?
Post by: Xanxi on June 27, 2011, 08:30:09 PM
I do not agree.
I have trashed at least 3 CF using them on my amiga computers.
Real hard drives are more reliable than CF. Never had a real problem with a HD on amiga in the last 15 years.
Title: Re: Most bullet-proof drive solution?
Post by: Heiroglyph on June 27, 2011, 08:34:39 PM
Quote from: the_leander;647358
Ok, so what do you have now, and what are their symptoms?

Without knowing what's going on with your system atm, anything suggested could only exacerbate the issues you're suffering with, not to mention make it harder to pin down their causes.

On the basics, platters will last longer before developing errors, but are slower and difficult to find in "low" capacities, especially new. Solid state such as SDHC and CF are readily available but tend to give up much more quickly than traditional platters unless you're paying out serious bank. USB.... Just don't go there unless you have to as far as booting goes, it'll slow your system down due to all the interrupts created during transfers and really offers you nothing over what you'd get with either CF or SDHC.

I've tried a multitude, so just combine these options...
A4000T scsi
A4000T ide
A4000D ide
Quickpak 060 desktop version with scsi
Warp Engine 3040 scsi
Deneb USB (DMA and PIO, ZIII and ZII)
Misc. ide drives, 120GB-200GB
Misc. scsi drives, 9GB-72GB
4GB USB thumb drives
USB-sata enclosures with 80-250GB 2.5" and 3.5" drives
Normally a ~1.7GB or less System, no more than 1.7GB Work.

The constant has been OS3.9.  As I said, I thought this was the gold standard, newest to use with fixes for drive capacity.

This was in 5 Amigas (3 4kD, 2 4kT) with 3 CPU and SCSI cards.

Closest yet was the Warp Engine SCSI.  It copied far more files without issue, from one old scsi drive to another new SCSI, but it's seems to have developed RAM and heat issues.

The Warp Engine HD also included an OS3.9 that was NOT installed by me.  I have no idea what was done to it.

I fear screwing up that drive by installing my 060 and other libraries on it so I duplicated it and tried with two other controllers and CPU cards with no better results.

Of them all, the Deneb/thumbdrive combo felt fastest in use, but was no more reliable.

I'll take stable over fast BTW.
Title: Re: Most bullet-proof drive solution?
Post by: tone007 on June 27, 2011, 08:38:41 PM
I've never had any problems on A500s, A600s, A1200s, A3000/Ts, A4000/Ts with plain old <4GB hard drives, SCSI or IDE.  Of course, I've never bothered with a Deneb either.

I did have a couple of issues with CF on an A1200, though for the most part it worked well enough also.  I wouldn't bother with it in a case that has room for a real hard drive, though.
Title: Re: Most bullet-proof drive solution?
Post by: Heiroglyph on June 27, 2011, 08:46:19 PM
Other than ancient drives, thumb drives or CF's, I don't know where to find a 4GB or less drive period.

Since I'm using less than 4GB of the drives, can this even be the issue?
Title: Re: Most bullet-proof drive solution?
Post by: the_leander on June 27, 2011, 08:52:06 PM
Quote from: Heiroglyph;647367

The constant has been OS3.9.  As I said, I thought this was the gold standard, newest to use with fixes for drive capacity.

I'll take stable over fast BTW.


I'd try using the original 3.1 scsi.device or seeing if there is a replacement on aminet for the one that shipped with 3.9, then go back and down tune your maxtransfer rates with it and see how that works before thinking about purchasing new kit.

Hope things work out for you!
Title: Re: Most bullet-proof drive solution?
Post by: Heiroglyph on June 27, 2011, 08:58:16 PM
What about one of DiscreetFX's 8GB SCSI SSD's that they use for Flyer video drives connected to either the 4000T SCSI or GVP A4060 SCSI?

That would be as fast as possible, especially on the 4060.

I've had zero problems in the past (including drive/file size) with Flyer SCSI drives so I'm tempted to use that for all work and have some small System drive on something bootable.
Title: Re: Most bullet-proof drive solution?
Post by: TheGoose on June 28, 2011, 12:09:52 AM
I have one of these 2GB jobbies:

http://www.pcconnectionexpress.com/1/1/2843759-transcend-information-transcend-2gb-44-pin-vertical-ide-flash-module-ts2gdom44v.html

I have no idea if they are really any different than a CF card. Mine works great as a hard drive. Other stuff on the page there might look at...

Fast? Well it faster than any moving parts ide drive will ever be, I'd confidently guess.

EDIT

I don't know what this stuff means really:
http://www.transcendusa.com/Press/index.asp?LangNo=0&axn=Detail&PrsNo=529

Transcend's IDE Flash Memory Module is small in size, measuring just 59.0mm x 27.3mm x 7.3mm (plastic case included in package) and has strong data retention. The 44-pin IDE Flash Memory Modules is ideal for use in harsher more demanding industrial environments where PCs, Set-Top Boxes and other industrial machines are used. In addition, with built-in ECC (Error Code Correcting) functionality Transcend's IFM ensures highly reliable data transfer and also supports Auto Sleep and Power-Down modes to save on energy.

Transcend insists on only using original SLC (Single-Level-Cell) NAND Flash chips in its IFM's, which have higher write speeds, lower power consumption, and superior durability compared with IDE Flash Memory Modules made with MLC (Multi-Level-Cell) chips. Transcend's 2GB IDE Flash Memory Modules are extremely reliable, have hi-speed data transfer rates and are the perfect choice for use in your industrial machines.

EDIT ...

Found some new kinds, "high speed" supposedly:

http://www.memorydepot.com/ssd/listcat.asp?catid=EDC800044
These must be better than CFs for some reason, more expensive.
Title: Re: Most bullet-proof drive solution?
Post by: stefcep2 on June 28, 2011, 01:18:15 AM
I had read write errors with a CF-IDE.  It turned out that the 4Gig Sandisk compact flash card I had was a fake.  It would work, and then for no reason report read write errors.  And it would not work with another IDE device, even when the device was on a Zorro FastATA.

I could not get it to be recognized on the PCMCIA adaptor on an A1200 at all.  I though the A1200 had a defective PCMCIA.  Even bought the hardware PCMCIA hack. Win XP and Linux would detect it and write to it via USB, but when i used the PCMCIA adaptor on Win XP or Linux it would not be detected.  And then I checked the fake serial number and stickers.

I bought a Sandisk 4Gig Ultra II from a bricks and mortar store and I have no problems whatsoever.

This was on an A4000 with 3.9 and 3.1, and A1200 with 3.1.
Title: Re: Most bullet-proof drive solution?
Post by: TheGoose on June 28, 2011, 01:56:04 AM
Just posting to kick down a thread I don't like appearing on my Amiga forum community...

move along...
Title: Re: Most bullet-proof drive solution?
Post by: Heiroglyph on June 28, 2011, 07:55:25 AM
I'm hearing a lot of good things about CF in here, maybe I should take it more seriously.

Right now I think I'll try one of mechy's SCSI CF readers on the 4000T's SCSI controller with an updated scsi.device.

How does that sound?

Am I missing a gotcha somewhere?
Title: Re: Most bullet-proof drive solution?
Post by: a1200 on June 28, 2011, 08:46:04 AM
I use these normally: link (http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=31024&forum=25).
Title: Re: Most bullet-proof drive solution?
Post by: johnklos on June 28, 2011, 09:31:17 AM
I went through many drives in my A4000 due to heavy I/O, then came up with this solution, a dual 2.5" SATA drive hardware RAID-1 enclosure:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816111065&cm_re=sata_raid-_-16-111-065-_-Product (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816111065&cm_re=sata_raid-_-16-111-065-_-Product)

I'm using it with this SATA to IDE adapter which always works:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812119257&cm_re=sata_to_ide-_-12-119-257-_-Product (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812119257&cm_re=sata_to_ide-_-12-119-257-_-Product)

That could just be connected to the IDE bus, but mine is connected to an Acard UW-SCSI to IDE adapter. With two 500 gig, 7200 RPM Seagate drives, it's been happy for a year now.

If you have size issues, you're still MUCH better off with a new drive using only part of it than going with an old drive. I'm using the full 500 gig, but only because I'm running NetBSD. Here's how it shows up in dmesg:

Quote
cbiiisc0: target 0 now wide 1
cbiiisc0: target 0 now synchronous, period=50ns, offset=14
siopng sync: siop_sxfr 2e, siop_scntl3 95
sd0 at scsibus0 target 0 lun 0: disk fixed
sd0: 465 GB, 242255 cyl, 64 head, 63 sec, 512 bytes/sect x 976773168 sectors
Title: Re: Most bullet-proof drive solution?
Post by: Crumb on June 28, 2011, 08:49:22 PM
Quote from: Heiroglyph;647355
By degrade, do you mean slower, or r/w errors?

I mean r/w errors but I doubt you'll ever run into that problems.

Quote
This is a very scary subject.  Can I use my Deneb card to boot with the updates already in place from the start?

Do not use Deneb dma driver with A4000T! You must use PIO driver with A4000T in order to avoid problems (I think that even if you don't use scsi units you may run into problems too if you use deneb dma driver due to the way A4000T is designed).

Quote
I'm confident with SCSI and willing to buy new cables and active terminators just to be sure.

scsi works pretty well on classics, you won't regret it.

Quote
I'm just about to buy one of the GVP 4060-DT's from Software Hut assuming they still have them (I think I may have had some CPU card issues)

IIRC latests GVP versions like that one are very reliable and memory access is faster than cyberstorm mk3/ppc too.

Quote
Is that controller reliable?

I think you won't have any problem using FFS. IIRC there were some problems using other filesystems but only if you tried to boot the OS from them.

Quote
I'm pretty paranoid at this point, like I said, I'm not using a full 4GB with 3.9 on SCSI, IDE and USB right now and they are all disastrously bad.

Is the RAM of your accelerators/motherboards OK? is your cabling ok?*are the drives ok?

Quote
What scsi.device do you suggest using for the onboard 4000T?  I assumed 3.9 was the good stuff and that tweaking all the devices and libs would be a bad idea.  Sometimes you can tweak them into instability, you know?

3.9 is just a collection of patches (and some of them are not very reliable). The most interesting parts are newer workbench.library, icon.library, updated scsi.device and newer FFS. If you own a Deneb you can extract the 3.9 modules and update the ones you need like scsi.device (there's a nice patch on Aminet done by Chris Hodges, the author of Poseidon), once you have updated the files put them into Deneb's flashrom.


Quote
Do you know what I should use for the GVP 4060?

An ide hd connected trough an IDE-SCSI adapter and ROM3.1 with the few interesting 3.9 parts (workbench.library, icon.library, filesystem.resource, scsi.device -and a4000T scsi device if you use A4000T-, ffs and perhaps updated shell). Skip 3.9 Reaction preferences when it's possible too.

Dump AmiDock and use an updated ToolsDaemon, it's faster, more comfortable and overall better.
Title: Re: Most bullet-proof drive solution?
Post by: Heiroglyph on June 28, 2011, 09:02:25 PM
Quote from: Crumb;647524
Do not use Deneb dma driver with A4000T! You must use PIO driver with A4000T

I understand that one, I hit it some time ago.

Quote
IIRC latests GVP versions like that one are very reliable and memory access is faster than cyberstorm mk3/ppc too.  I think you won't have any problem using FFS. IIRC there were some problems using other filesystems but only if you tried to boot the OS from them.

That's what I have been hearing unfortunately.  It would just be SO awesome to have a new (refurb I think , but still) CPU/RAM/SCSI in the system that I could count on.  No matter what I buy used, I just wouldn't have the same confidence.

Plus it would just be nice to get that warm fuzzy feeling that new hardware gives you ;)

I'm very tempted to boot from FFS and keep my work on SFS or PFS just to get the new CPU card.

Quote
Is the RAM of your accelerators/motherboards OK? is your cabling ok?*are the drives ok?

Hard to say, but I won't say I trust it.

I have removed all RAM from the CPU card, tested, then from the motherboard and retested and the problem persists either way.

I've also used multiple CPU cards, but I don't trust those either.  As I said, the one with seemingly stable transfers had ramlib guru's or failure to boot, even without onboard ram.

Thanks again for all the suggestions.
Title: Re: Most bullet-proof drive solution?
Post by: nicholas on June 28, 2011, 11:20:57 PM
Quote from: Heiroglyph;647357
All those adapters seem pretty scary, but if it works...

I tried an IDE to SATA but I can't get it to recognize on any of my systems.  Probably just not a compatible adapter.

I did give SFS a shot, that didn't work out any better than FFS from what I could tell.  If anything went wrong, I had trouble accessing the drive too.

Is PFS more reliable?  Is it painful to set up?


It's no more difficult to set up than SFS really, it is also very fast too.
Title: Re: Most bullet-proof drive solution?
Post by: nicholas on June 28, 2011, 11:36:21 PM
Quote from: Heiroglyph;647367
I've tried a multitude, so just combine these options...
A4000T scsi
A4000T ide
A4000D ide
Quickpak 060 desktop version with scsi
Warp Engine 3040 scsi
Deneb USB (DMA and PIO, ZIII and ZII)
Misc. ide drives, 120GB-200GB
Misc. scsi drives, 9GB-72GB
4GB USB thumb drives
USB-sata enclosures with 80-250GB 2.5" and 3.5" drives
Normally a ~1.7GB or less System, no more than 1.7GB Work.

The constant has been OS3.9.  As I said, I thought this was the gold standard, newest to use with fixes for drive capacity.

This was in 5 Amigas (3 4kD, 2 4kT) with 3 CPU and SCSI cards.

Closest yet was the Warp Engine SCSI.  It copied far more files without issue, from one old scsi drive to another new SCSI, but it's seems to have developed RAM and heat issues.

The Warp Engine HD also included an OS3.9 that was NOT installed by me.  I have no idea what was done to it.

I fear screwing up that drive by installing my 060 and other libraries on it so I duplicated it and tried with two other controllers and CPU cards with no better results.

Of them all, the Deneb/thumbdrive combo felt fastest in use, but was no more reliable.

I'll take stable over fast BTW.


3.9 with Boing Bags 1, 2 and 3 is reliable on all my machines, BB4 is good too but is still a WIP.
Title: Re: Most bullet-proof drive solution?
Post by: mousehouse on June 29, 2011, 10:32:30 AM
I have had no problems (ah well, not scsi/disk related) on both my A4000D or A3000D. In all cases I only used SCSI because it performs really well. I used many different controllers including the Cyberstorm PPC, mk2, WarpEngine 4040 and the onboard A3000 SCSI controller, both old and new chip version.

I suspect there might be something b0rked in your install, maybe the best way forward is first to remove additional hardware in your system and reinstall. Just go with CPU accelerator + RAM + SCSI + DENEB + Video card. That should be a working combo...

What I did was to go from a clean 3.1 (just floppies with Picasso96 and IDEfix) to 3.9, then added BB1 and 2. I can copy for hours without issues, on both machines. Not tried BB3 and 4 yet, and the 3000 gives a recoverable alert at bootup, probably from an FFS related update somewhere but works fine otherwise.

For backups I use network and USB. As USB flashdrives are quite cheap I use a set of them, but I could also use an external USB drive. I wrote a 5-line crappy bug-ridden instable script that just LHA's my complete system drive to an archive file on the USB stick and optionally network drive (FTP).

edit:
As a system drive I just got two Seagate Savvio 2.5" 10K SCA drives from Ebay for about $25 each. They hardly make any sound and are quite fast I think, probably faster than the SCSI bus can handle anyway. Haven't had time to test or try them yet beside putting power on them to test. I wanted to go the SATA - SCSI way but $150 for an adapter is a little too much for me.
Title: Re: Most bullet-proof drive solution?
Post by: mousehouse on June 29, 2011, 12:09:01 PM
Sidenote, stability problems can also come from old/bad 68060 libraries... You might try to get the set from here: http://phase5.a1k.org/index.php?driverslibraries

One symptom can be that all is well except for your disks which fail... sounds a little too familiar to me...

credits: "rayon" at the Dutch Amiga site pointed this out to me...
Title: Re: Most bullet-proof drive solution?
Post by: Crumb on June 29, 2011, 01:30:32 PM
Using a PSU that gives a lot of power at exactly +5v is a good idea too. Use a multimeter to check it out.
Title: Re: Most bullet-proof drive solution?
Post by: Heiroglyph on July 03, 2011, 08:21:22 PM
This is sort of a cross post, but I wanted to update both threads for someone with the same problem in the future.  This was kicking my butt.

I finally got what seems to be a stable system.  I'm pretty sure it was a mixture of bad hardware.  At least motherboard, possibly CPU card and RAM in various combinations.

I swapped parts until I felt that I had a stable A3640 and A4000D, then installed OS3.1.

I ran this and replaced parts until it seemed rock solid. (took three motherboards...)

Then I installed the Warp Engine 3040 in that system.  This still seemed good even with 64MB RAM on board.

At that point, I felt cocky, so I put all the Mediator parts in and although they weren't used, it didn't make it unstable.

Then I replaced the 1.2GB IDE drive with the original 2GB SCSI the system came with and that also seems good.

So far I've copied 2GB of data (roughly the whole drive) back and forth between SCSI and IDE drives with no apparent data loss or lockups!

Woo Hoo!

I've got a good base now, so I should be able to tell when any given part is bad.  Next up, the 060 card!  I hope it is good!

I plan to use better SFS and CF drives instead of FFS and ancient IDE/SCSI once the hardware seems 100%.
Title: Re: Most bullet-proof drive solution?
Post by: Dandy on July 04, 2011, 09:06:04 AM
Quote from: Heiroglyph;647342


For desktop (mostly development, so lots of writes) use on either a 4000D or 4000T, what is the most reliable, but still fast drive configuration to use?



Well, in my towered A4000D with CyberstormPPC I used the UW-SCSI from the beginning to avoid unnecessary CPU load for disk operations.
Initially I just had a 4.3 gB UW-SCSI drive, but in the mean time I added a 160 gB IDE drive via Acard bridge ( http://www.vesalia.de/e_acard.htm?slc=us ).
As file system serves PFS3.
Very reliable - I had no failures during the last 10 years, and also the speed is quite good for this old system...

Quote from: Heiroglyph;647342


Preferably one that avoids as many drive size issues as possible, with any known connection type, I'll buy whatever I need to.



As I said above - my 160 gB drive works like a charm with PFS3 and OS 3.9/WarpOS.
Now I'm planning to add an external USB drive with one tB capacity and am confident it will also work flawlessly...

Quote from: Heiroglyph;647342


OS3.1 with what patches? 3.5? 3.9?
IDE, SCSI, USB, other?



OS 3.9/WarpOS 16.1 (also experimental OS 4.0 classic setup)
SCSI

Quote from: Heiroglyph;647342


Built-in controller?  Add on controller?



The UW-SCSI host adapter (controller) is onboard the CyberstormPPC board.

Quote from: Heiroglyph;647342


CF vs. thumb drive vs traditional spinning platters?
Can you constantly write to CF without wearing out the drive?
Do I need to use only tiny 2-4GB drives?



I have no experience in using those as hard drive replacement...

Quote from: Heiroglyph;647342


What filesystem?



PFS3

Quote from: Heiroglyph;647342


Partition sizes?



I have some 50 gB partitions, but larger ones should also be possible.

Quote from: Heiroglyph;647342


I just want to stop worrying about errors, data loss and lockups, it's killing the fun of using the system.

Thanks!



Well, my config worked fine without any errors, data loss or lockups for more than 10 years...