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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Software Issues and Discussion => Topic started by: Brutus on December 28, 2003, 01:16:44 AM

Title: Open source for amiga?
Post by: Brutus on December 28, 2003, 01:16:44 AM
I wondered, is amiga software open source, like Linux? Fx OS 4
Title: Re: Open source for amiga?
Post by: iamaboringperson on December 28, 2003, 01:21:09 AM
Quote

Brutus wrote:
I wondered, is amiga software open source, like Linux? Fx OS 4
Well, it would depend on the software, wouldn't it?
Title: Re: Open source for amiga?
Post by: Brutus on December 28, 2003, 01:24:46 AM
Quote
Fx OS 4


I ment, is OS 4 open source?
Title: Re: Open source for amiga?
Post by: lempkee on December 28, 2003, 01:27:54 AM
lol looks like a lame attempt to troll..

anyway OS 4 is NOT open source and never will be..

Title: Re: Open source for amiga?
Post by: KennyR on December 28, 2003, 01:32:41 AM
I wouldn't say it won't ever be open source, but there's a slim chance of it being released as freeware sometime after 2060. ;-)

No, but seriously - AmigaOS4 is commercial, unlike Linux.
Title: Re: Open source for amiga?
Post by: JoannaK on December 28, 2003, 01:34:02 AM
Lempkee: Never say never.. But I have to say it looks highly unlikely that's going to happen.
Title: Re: Open source for amiga?
Post by: voytech on December 28, 2003, 01:36:01 AM
Lets write a petition!
(think that there is one already, but am not sure) :-)

/hide mode ON
Title: Re: Open source for amiga?
Post by: Kronos on December 28, 2003, 01:38:29 AM
Quote

voytech wrote:
Lets write a petition!
(think that there is one already, but am not sure) :-)


Barry and his KOSH ?

 :-o  :-P
Title: Re: Open source for amiga?
Post by: Brutus on December 28, 2003, 01:38:49 AM
Thanks now I know :-D
Title: Re: Open source for amiga?
Post by: FlagshipAmigaLover on December 28, 2003, 01:43:05 AM
To iamaboringperson:

Quote
Well, it would depend on the software, wouldn't it?


Why are you such a smartallic?  Try to actually HELP people here on Amiga.org.  I have only been here for a few days and I am already getting tired of your stupid remarks!  If you are not going to actually help folks here then SHUT THE F**K UP !!!!     :-x
Title: Re: Open source for amiga?
Post by: voytech on December 28, 2003, 01:46:00 AM
Quote

FlagshipAmigaLover wrote:
To iamaboringperson:

Quote
Well, it would depend on the software, wouldn't it?


Why are you such a smartallic?  Try to actually HELP people here on Amiga.org.  I have only been here for a few days and I am already getting tired of your stupid remarks!  If you are not going to actually help folks here then SHUT THE F**K UP !!!!     :-x


wow.. this are hard words men..
don't you think that maybe too hard??
Title: Re: Open source for amiga?
Post by: FlagshipAmigaLover on December 28, 2003, 02:01:08 AM
Hi voytech,

Quote
wow.. this are hard words men.. don't you think that maybe too hard??


No I don't.  Just go look in the forums and see how iamaboringperson responds to people.  I am new to Amiga.org and this guy starts saying bad things to me.  I am usually a nice person, but this guy gets on my nerves.      :pint:
Title: Re: Open source for amiga?
Post by: iamaboringperson on December 28, 2003, 02:08:02 AM
I wonder when are the moderators going to wake up and disable 'DoomMasters' brand new account?
Quote
Why are you such a smartallic? Try to actually HELP people here on Amiga.org. I have only been here for a few days and I am already getting tired of your stupid remarks! If you are not going to actually help folks here then SHUT THE F**K UP !!!!
That's not very plesant of you.  I bet you can't help this guy. Prick.
Title: Re: Open source for amiga?
Post by: Brutus on December 28, 2003, 02:19:25 AM
Quote
That's not very plesant of you. I bet you can't help this guy. Prick.


It is ok to come with a "stupid reply" if it is a "stupid question". But it wasn't. You did not read the hole question and then replyed with a "stupid reply".
That was very unfriendly of you!
Title: Re: Open source for amiga?
Post by: iamaboringperson on December 28, 2003, 02:28:38 AM
Quote

voytech wrote:
Lets write a petition!
(think that there is one already, but am not sure) :-)

/hide mode ON


Look in SeeHund's sig.
Title: Re: Open source for amiga?
Post by: iamaboringperson on December 28, 2003, 02:30:40 AM
And what's wrong with AROS ? :-)
Title: Re: Open source for amiga?
Post by: GreggBz on December 28, 2003, 06:57:22 AM
Mr. Serious is here.. Is this a topic already seen? If not then why NOT?
Honesly, why not make OS4 open source?
Do that, spread the word GIVE IT TO US NOW,  and it would brethe more life into the Amiga world then any attemps to commercialize it.  Releasing OS4 as open source would generate more downloads and more publicity.. and perhaps an army of developers drooling to sink their teeth  into something exotic(yes, I said exotic!) and fresh!  How much money are the developers making now anyway?
I'm just seeing a flawed business model here..
Perhaps Amiga just need to stop trying to be a business,.
Title: Re: Open source for amiga?
Post by: amiga2000power on December 28, 2003, 09:39:24 AM
Quote

FlagshipAmigaLover wrote:
To iamaboringperson:

Quote
Well, it would depend on the software, wouldn't it?


Why are you such a smartallic?  Try to actually HELP people here on Amiga.org.  I have only been here for a few days and I am already getting tired of your stupid remarks!  If you are not going to actually help folks here then SHUT THE F**K UP !!!!     :-x


That wasn't very nice! Iamaboringperson hasn't said anything that should upset you! You should not be so rude to people!  :-x
Title: Re: Open source for amiga?
Post by: voytech on December 28, 2003, 10:30:39 AM
schizophrenia or what??
Title: Re: Open source for amiga?
Post by: Brutus on December 28, 2003, 10:38:10 AM
Quote
Mr. Serious is here.. Is this a topic already seen? If not then why NOT?  Honesly, why not make OS4 open source?  Do that, spread the word GIVE IT TO US NOW, and it would brethe more life into the Amiga world then any attemps to commercialize it. Releasing OS4 as open source would generate more downloads and more publicity.. and perhaps an army of developers drooling to sink their teeth into something exotic(yes, I said exotic!) and fresh! How much money are the developers making now anyway?   I'm just seeing a flawed business model here..   Perhaps Amiga just need to stop trying to be a business,.


I could not agree more on that point...
Title: Re: Open source for amiga?
Post by: HotRod on December 28, 2003, 10:45:03 AM
Yes lets set it free! And maybe it will be dead for good like BeOS (and don't say "it's still alive"). That would mean that MorphOS would still be commercial. Hmm... you don't happen to be into MOS? ;-)
Title: Re: Open source for amiga?
Post by: Fats on December 28, 2003, 12:19:04 PM
Quote

KennyR wrote:
No, but seriously - AmigaOS4 is commercial, unlike Linux.


Sorry to be picky but commercial is not the opposite of open source. The opposite of open source is proprietary. The opposite of commercial is non-commercial, hobby.
You can have commercialy supported open source or non-commercial proprietary software (freeware).

Staf.
Title: Re: Open source for amiga?
Post by: raddydaddy on December 28, 2003, 03:07:47 PM
"And maybe it will be dead for good like BeOS (and don't say "it's still alive")".

Well, from a commercial perspective BeOS is very much alive. BeOS is open source and can be coded for, modified and released without any drawbacks. Just because it is open source does not mean it cannot be commercial - check out yellowTab (http://www.yellowtab.com/) for an idea of the kind of freedom that the BeOS model offers.

Now "dead for good like BeOS" is an extremely naive POV. BeOS has more active developers and users than Amiga does - the development of the OS has kept it more up to date than AmigaOS [asking for flames now!] even though there is no official development team.

IMHO for Amiga to ever get back into the limelight, it has to offer things that other OSs do not, and at a competitive price! Do you honestly think that people will pay for amigaOS when they can get for free a more developed and more advanced OS? Honestly?

Open Source amigaOS would allow the active [and admittedly devoted] world network of developers to improve and add features to the OS as they are required and needed, fixing bugs along the way. A world team of a 100 interested developers are more capable than a small crack team of paid enthusiasts (hyperion).

If you dont believe me, cast your minds back 8 odd years when gif was to be 'taxed' and so the world created PNG. The amiga SDK and its datatype system allowed the community to create native support for this format before any of the other platforms! Imagine if the whole OS was open source, evolving and adapting to cope with the ever changing world of computing.

ps. my chips are on Aros - give them the sourcecode! :-P
Title: Re: Open source for amiga?
Post by: dammy on December 28, 2003, 03:14:35 PM
by Brutus on 2003/12/27 20:16:44


Quote
I wondered, is amiga software open source, like Linux? Fx OS 4


No, but AROS (http://www.aros.org) is. =)

Dammy
Title: Re: Open source for amiga?
Post by: KennyR on December 28, 2003, 03:25:25 PM
Quote
Mr. Serious is here.. Is this a topic already seen? If not then why NOT?
Honesly, why not make OS4 open source?


Oh dear, not the old "open sourcing will save everything" argument.

Why not make OS4 open source? Well, here are some reasons:

* Users don't want fifty different OS4 distros all with a heap of bugs each;

* Users don't want to be left on their own to deal with incredibly poor human interfaces left by the coders, such as in Linux.

* Amiga hasn't got many developers left at all. What makes you think people demanding they put all their work in for free will make them more motivated?

* Users don't want the old open-source reply to bugs, "Well, you have the source - why not fix it yourself?"

* Users don't want OS4 become bloated as people add in lots of useless features they want but nobody else needs, rather than a concerted plan of advancement.

And finally:

* Open sourcing never saved anything. Linux survives because of its geek factor, not because it's open source.
Title: Re: Open source for amiga?
Post by: mikeymike on December 28, 2003, 03:36:45 PM
Largely in agreement with KennyR's last post, but I would add to it that the open source movement has revitalised the software industry which was very much in stagnation.

A variety of opensource and commercial software is what's needed.  The advantage of OS4 being commercially-based is that its development will be much quicker than if it were opensource, unless all opensource developers everywhere for some random reason decided that OS4 was the "next big thing".

I think an opensource community developing anything for new Amiga platforms (A1/Peg) is a good thing.  Even Linux.  It gives the platform greater visibility to the techie community.
Title: Re: Open source for amiga?
Post by: dammy on December 28, 2003, 04:11:10 PM
by mikeymike on 2003/12/28 10:36:45


Quote
unless all opensource developers everywhere for some random reason decided that OS4 was the "next big thing".


Which of course would lead to OS4 being ported to, gasp, x86.

Dammy
AROS, no schedule and rock'n.
Title: Re: Open source for amiga?
Post by: lempkee on December 28, 2003, 04:39:18 PM
this must be the biggest non moderated thread ever on amiga.org , and seriously its about time it get moderated..

in this thread we have personal attacks , flames and lame speeches..


moderate at will..

pps:of this thread doesnt get moderated asap then i will for sure make some noise next time if i see a thread gets moderated ..
Title: Re: Open source for amiga?
Post by: KennyR on December 28, 2003, 04:49:48 PM
Quote
Which of course would lead to OS4 being ported to, gasp, x86.


And gasp, that would result in tens of thousands of sales, developers, and an explosion in software.

Or not. :)
Title: Re: Open source for amiga?
Post by: mikeymike on December 28, 2003, 04:53:42 PM
Quote
this must be the biggest non moderated thread ever on amiga.org , and seriously its about time it get moderated..


I think Christmas still has some time to wear off me yet, I'm still feeling half-asleep :-)

Guys, play nice, or I'll have to start editing your posts. I'm in far too good a mood to do this.  Don't break my good mood, because then I'll be annoyed.  And when I get annoyed, Mr Bigglesworth gets upset, and then people DIE!

(even edit your own posts if you now feel you went a bit overboard)
Title: Re: Open source for amiga?
Post by: lempkee on December 28, 2003, 05:26:51 PM
mikeymike:thanx for the fast response


Title: Re: Open source for amiga?
Post by: GreggBz on December 28, 2003, 06:12:53 PM
>> Linux survives because of its geek factor, not because it's open source.

That's kind of dissmisive and narrow sighted.
But regardless, Ok. At least It's surviving.

I guess the Personal Computer survived because of it's geek factor also.




Title: Re: Open source for amiga?
Post by: dammy on December 28, 2003, 06:21:41 PM
by KennyR on 2003/12/28 10:25:25

Quote
* Open sourcing never saved anything. Linux survives because of its geek factor, not because it's open source.


Quite wrong actually.  Linux is surviving because it's open source, it would died a long time ago if it wasn't.  Corps are now seeing Linux and open source applications as their new way of cutting IT cost.  See this article (http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=13350) on why M$ had a flat quarter.  

Dammy
Title: Re: Open source for amiga?
Post by: KennyR on December 28, 2003, 06:39:50 PM
Quote
Dammy wrote:
Quite wrong actually. Linux is surviving because it's open source, it would died a long time ago if it wasn't.


Then how do you explain the deaths or lack of use of many other open source OS's, including many of the DOS and Unix clones?

Linux would have died if it wasn't open source. But being open source alone did not result in its success. Open-sourcing AmigaOS or even MacOS tomorrow wouldn't result in a sudden flood of users. All it would result in would be the disinterest of companies that has blighted Linux's usefulness beyond the 'geek' and server niches.
Title: Re: Open source for amiga?
Post by: Seehund on December 28, 2003, 06:42:23 PM
Quote

iamaboringperson wrote:
Quote

voytech wrote:
Lets write a petition!
(think that there is one already, but am not sure) :-)

/hide mode ON


Look in SeeHund's sig.


Errr... That's got nothing to do with open sourcing AmigaOS. That's not about giving away stuff for free, on the contrary it's about actually trying to sell a product.

Even though I personally think open sourcing AmigaOS would be a good idea, I don't see it happening. AInc owns(?) AOS <=3.1 and Hyperion owns what's been made for 4.0. Sitting on IP seems to be AInc's entire business, and they're not giving away their business voluntarily.

Until Genesi makes a computer that beats at least the Mac in price/performance (the Peg2 is a step in that direction it seems, at least if you buy it with Euros) and AInc realises that there is no "Amiga hardware" to try to control, it looks like AROS currently has the best chances for both survival and growth among the Amiga-ish alternatives IMO.
Title: Re: Open source for amiga?
Post by: mikeymike on December 28, 2003, 07:03:49 PM
Quote
Then how do you explain the deaths or lack of use of many other open source OS's, including many of the DOS and Unix clones?


Simple.  Linux is the flavour of the moment.  Err, last 5 years or so.  :-)
Title: Re: Open source for amiga?
Post by: dammy on December 28, 2003, 07:06:18 PM
by KennyR on 2003/12/28 13:39:50

Quote
Then how do you explain the deaths or lack of use of many other open source OS's, including many of the DOS and Unix clones?


Just because an OS is open source does not make it an OS that *should* survive.  Open Source does enhance the survivalibility of a given OS.  But if it's a poorly thought out OS without talented coders driving it forward, it's DOA. This is the reason why I'm betting on AROS.  Developement maybe a bumpy road at times, but the product is pretty damn nice and the coders know their stuff.

Dammy

Title: Re: Open source for amiga?
Post by: KennyR on December 28, 2003, 07:08:24 PM
Quote
Mikeymike wrote:
Simple. Linux is the flavour of the moment. Err, last 5 years or so. :-)


Not a lot for that kind of success. Star Trek has been around for more than 30. ;-)
Title: Re: Open source for amiga?
Post by: mikeymike on December 28, 2003, 07:11:36 PM
Quote
Star Trek has been around for more than 30.

That's because it was GREAT! :-)
Title: Re: Open source for amiga?
Post by: GreggBz on December 28, 2003, 08:28:36 PM
The whole motivation behind my argument was give it to me now!
Honestly, If I had OS4 to play with in some reasonable manifestation.. and by that I mean more then a collection of screenshots, I would buy an AmigaOne.





Title: Re: Open source for amiga?
Post by: mikeymike on December 28, 2003, 08:59:02 PM
Quote
Honestly, If I had OS4 to play with in some reasonable manifestation.. and by that I mean more then a collection of screenshots, I would buy an AmigaOne.


Except of course you can't play with OS4 without an AmigaOne, so that means you'll never buy it.

Chicken: Egg scenario :-)