Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: Surf's Up on June 04, 2011, 12:19:23 PM
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OK , been googling to my heart's content and unable to find anything fairly quickly so maybe here is a better bet.
I have a number of old Amiga systems here and quite happy with them , but as age gets to us all eventually , is the new Sam460 system worth considering as a new replacement?
Does the new OS run the old Amiga games and applications or is it only good for new software? Would like to know before investing money in a new system. Maybe it contains an emulator for the old Amiga stuff?
Thanks.
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Does the new OS run the old Amiga games and applications or is it only good for new software? Would like to know before investing money in a new system. Maybe it contains an emulator for the old Amiga stuff?
AFAIK on all amiga OSes applications that use the amiga hardware directly have to be run in UAE. And for running UAE WinUAE is the most advanced version.
Applications that don't access hardware should run both on MOS and AOS4. Here MOS seems to be more compatible as it implements the side effects of the OS3.x functions more strictly than AOS4. On AROS such applications can be run in a special configuration of UAE where the windows appear on the normal AROS screen.
greets,
Staf.
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OK , been googling to my heart's content and unable to find anything fairly quickly so maybe here is a better bet.
I have a number of old Amiga systems here and quite happy with them , but as age gets to us all eventually , is the new Sam460 system worth considering as a new replacement?
Does the new OS run the old Amiga games and applications or is it only good for new software? Would like to know before investing money in a new system. Maybe it contains an emulator for the old Amiga stuff?
Thanks.
If you have an expanded big Box Amiga or A1200 Tower than a sam460 is a good replacement, but if you are looking or a good hardware solution to play your old games your best option is probably a Minimig, as its basically a 1.5MB or 3.5MB A600 with a built in scan doubler and the floppy drive replaced with an SDcard that alows you to load your games from SSD card.
These days WinUAE is also a very good way to pay old Amiga games and software the only down side is that you cant plug in your old Amiga joysticks without purchasing extra hardware and it can be a little daunting to configure at first.
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@ Surf's Up
First off, welcome aboard:)
The Sam460ex should have no problem playing most old ECS/OCS and most AGA games (as well as running many 68k apps) as my old Sam440flex@800 played them fine under glUAE.. also heard others have had success with RunInUAE (find them at http://www.os4depot.net) seamlessly & transparantly under OS4.1u2.
There are quite a few youtube videos of the Sam460 in action for you to check out..have fun exploring :)
(http://www.bohthegame.com/other/glUAE/index.html)
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Dammy, you are wrong about SAM's needing UAE for legacy programs across the board. Don't let your love for C-USA obfuscate the truth that OS4 can indeed run older Amiga apps just fine in some cases with no emulator required.
Don't mean to pick nits, but comparing a SAM/OS4 to a C-USA EmuMiggy is apples and oranges to some extent. Unless C-USA has done something remarkable in a matter of months, you're looking at 100% emulation. SAM's and OS4 can run old SW natively, to some extent - sans addon emulators. The C-USA boxes are commodity/emulator x86 stuff, and C-USA have never claimed otherwise, to their credit.
The SAM's can run a fair chunk of older legacy Amiga programs without ever touching or installing UAE. I've never had to bother with UAE on my SAM, but I am not much of a gamer on it. I run a BBS off my SAM using an oldie BBS program designed for 68k systems with very few issues, no emulation involved. As a SAM owner (440, however) - I have not tried too many games, but I've had very, very few problems running utils/programs (non games) natively unless it bangs hardware, which it obviously won't find on a SAM. There is some native support for older programs on OS 4.x without the need for UAE, the same cannot be said about the C-USA machines unless they have banged out a native, legacy compatible OS in a matter of months.
That being said, I would not under any circumstances buy a SAM if you are looking for something to use for running oldie games. They simply are too expensive, and commodity x86 hardware and UAE can do a far better job running old games. Or A1200's are cheap.
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OK , been googling to my heart's content and unable to find anything fairly quickly so maybe here is a better bet.
I have a number of old Amiga systems here and quite happy with them , but as age gets to us all eventually , is the new Sam460 system worth considering as a new replacement?
Does the new OS run the old Amiga games and applications or is it only good for new software? Would like to know before investing money in a new system. Maybe it contains an emulator for the old Amiga stuff?
Thanks.
To clarify: a modern Amiga (be it OS4, MorphOS, or AROS based) is not a drop-in replacement for old games.
All your old software will run through some form of emulation. System-friendly stuff (i.e., you can still multitask while it's running) should work transparently on OS4 and MorphOS although MorphOS is better on the compatibility front. Nearly all games (i.e., programs you would boot from) will only work under UAE. None of the Amiga UAE ports comes anywhere near the level of WinUAE.
AROS now has a fork of UAE largely integrated into the system in a manner similar to OSX's Classic mode. OS4 has some partial integration of E-UAE through a series of scripts. These scripts should work on MorphOS, too, but they're not specifically targeted for it.
Also note that your old floppies won't work without a Catweasel floppy controller.
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Also note that your old floppies won't work without a Catweasel floppy controller.
good point! btw, the Catweasel MK4+ is an awesome card
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To clarify: a modern Amiga (be it OS4, MorphOS, or AROS based) is not a drop-in replacement for old games.
While *this is* a very true and correct statement, I still remember the joy from reading MorphOS users reporting playing Hyperion "OS3" games (and using Magellan 2, etc), while OS4 users couldn't! :) (I mean - Oh! The Irony! ;)) Maybe they have corrected this by now? Or "fixed it" by releasing specially OS4.1.2 recompilations of their games? ;)
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@ spirantho
good points Ian
@ All
Ian has made us many great drivers for the CWMK4+ to be enjoyed by AmigaOS4.x users..thanks again mate:)
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Although given CommodoreUSA "Amigas" are very expensive for what they are
Questions:
1) Exactly *what* are they?
2) Exactly *how expensive* are they?
(And they are (read: *will be*) *Amiga*(TM), no need for ironic quotation marks ;) )
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Does anyone know how many gates the FPGA on the SAM460 has? Is it 484k? I tried to find out on the ACube site, but could not find it and there appear to be many different versions of the Lattice XP2 FPGA chip with different densities and maybe different number of gates.
I'm just trying to find the information to answer the question of "can the SAM460's FPGA run the MiniMig core?", which was asked elsewhere. If the SAM460 can run MiniMig cores and also access parts of the ports and slots of the SAM460 while doing so with a modified MiniMig core design, it makes the SAM460 a much more interesting product.
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Well , looks like this forum is certainly alive and very active - so many responses so fast.
Looks like from what I read that the Minimig is probably the best solution for me - as in new hardware to run the old games for when my existing Amigas die from old age or whatever.
Thanks for all your inputs and ideas.
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Well , looks like this forum is certainly alive and very active - so many responses so fast.
Looks like from what I read that the Minimig is probably the best solution for me - as in new hardware to run the old games for when my existing Amigas die from old age or whatever.
Thanks for all your inputs and ideas.
You can't go wrong with a Minimig, but if you go for the ECS v1.1 Minimig then make sure you get the 4MB version or wait for the FPGA Arcade (Mike will be releasing the next batch soon).
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Well , looks like this forum is certainly alive and very active - so many responses so fast.
Looks like from what I read that the Minimig is probably the best solution for me - as in new hardware to run the old games for when my existing Amigas die from old age or whatever.
Thanks for all your inputs and ideas.
I also think you shouldn't overlook the possibility of Morphos. I've seen PPC Macminis on ebay in Australia for less than $100.
For example:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Apple-Mac-Mini-1-4g-w-Deluxe-Wireless-Keyboard-Mouse-/260795006767?pt=AU_Computers_Apple_Desktops&hash=item3cb897ff2f
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Apple-Mac-Mini-G4-1-42GHz-512MB-memory-80Gb-disk-/110695487855?pt=AU_Computers_Apple_Desktops&hash=item19c5f7196f
:)
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I also think you shouldn't overlook the possibility of Morphos. I've seen PPC Macminis on ebay in Australia for less than $100.
:)
Yeah, but unless you buy a 1.5 Ghz model, you only have 32MB of video memory which can cause problems running some software.
I've got some cool games running on my Powermac. Hopefully we'll see some more ports in the future.
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Well , looks like this forum is certainly alive and very active - so many responses so fast.
Looks like from what I read that the Minimig is probably the best solution for me - as in new hardware to run the old games for when my existing Amigas die from old age or whatever.
Thanks for all your inputs and ideas.
The Minimig v1.1 is a great little board and much has been done to improve it since it was first invented, but I would point you toward MikeJ's Replay board as an even more improved, similar concept, that has more options, and will eventually run more cores from different computer and arcade systems. Plus, if the 060 daughter card goes into production, it will be equivalent to, or surpass the fastest 68060 Classic Amigas and include most of the best additions to Classic Amiga systems, such as USB, Ethernet, more RAM and a Scandoubler, all in a smaller and more modern package. The Replay is like a Minimig on steroids.
Another interesting project that you might be interested in is the Natami, but I don't have any idea when it will be ready for public consumption.
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While I've never been shy of letting Dammy know when I think he's behaving silly I must admit the shots at him are somewhat unwarranted here. Most of the "corrections", etc. that people are aiming at him here are in response to things he's not even said.
Now as for buying a SAM, if you want a machine to play your old amiga games, etc. as youve said, then perhaps ironically AmigaOS4 + a Sam460 isnt really what youre after. Huge pricetag, poor performance (relative to pretty much anything made within the last 10 years), and too slow for a lot of software. Forget Breathless, AB3d, AB3d2, even Alladin, Capital Punishment, most AGA games wont play full speed. Yes, OS4.x (and MOS) do have 68k emulation outside of UAE, but is that of use to you seeing as you expressed a want to use your old custom chipset based software? In short, it'll be an ok experience, but expect compromises and some of the better amiga games not to work. Chances are you'll get people trying to convince you otherwise while trying to get you onboard, but again, if youre mostly after a machine to use your old favorites a Sam + OS4.x would be one of the last things I suggest. Do you want to spend over a thousand dollars for inferior custom chipset performance to what you'd get off a machine you'd find in the bin? As for people suggesting that the speed of modern computers being redundant for AmigaOS, that's a crock. There's plenty of stuff to take advantage of extra resources, especially with a machine that requires raw speed more than things like Windows,Linux, etc. (cos of modest driver suppot amongst other things). Videos, emulation, compiling, audio transcoding, 3d rendering, etc, etc.... pretty much same sort of software as other formats, only yhe need for speed is greater for Amiga derived OSes (even if the destop/UI/etc. is very fast and responsive on low spec hardware you still need raw grunt for intensive software).
Anyway, despite how it may seem, I actually do like OS4.x, I just wanted to be honest here as a lot of the answers you'll get will be written with an air of bias, and truths twisted because of it.
If use of the OS and/or system friendly software is important to you then the perspective on value is somewhat different, and in that case you might be happy with a Sam+OS4. That said however though then this also may mean one of the alternatives in MOS and AROS might also suit you. The former also having an intergrated 68k emulator (again for non custom chipset software), while the latter offers a custom intergrated version of UAE and much better performance in UAE.
Anyway, I hope this info is of use to you, I just thought Id offer the perspective of someone with no bias or alternate agenda :)
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Anyway, despite how it may seem, I actually do like OS4.x, I just wanted to be honest here as a lot of the answers you'll get will be written with an air of bias, and truths twisted because of it.
Yes I am in the same camp on this one I own a sam440ep and am very happy with it (I just wish the would fix USB to be usable for more than attaching a keyboard and mouse) on an hours or use for price paid perspective I have had value for money out of mine, but it is an expensive solution that is not for everyone.
As a silent small form factor computer for playing back music, running Photogenics, ImageFX and use as an rdesktop client it works very well for me, but if what you really want to do is play ECS or AGA games there are better solutions at present.
If you want a games solution to play OCS and ECS games then the Minimig is my preferred option even though I still own 2 A500 and 2 A1200 (one expanded tower system and an 030 equipped desktop) as all you need to do is turn it on and play rather than try and get it working then play.
I may upgrade to a FPGA Replay board when they become more widely available and sell off one of my A1200 but at this stage I don't have the free cash and most of the games I like best run on an ECS system anyway.
Lotus 1 & 2, Civilization, Settlers, Pinball Fantasies, Eye of the Beholder 1 & 2 New Zealand story, Utopia, Rail Road tycoon and many others all run perfectly on my Minimigs. Lotus 2 even works in serial link up between my 2 Minimigs or 1 Minimig and an A500 for some serious multi player fun what else can you ask for in A500/A600 clone :-)
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I don't want to be rude Dammy but...
How is it that you have to pollute every single thread by inserting some CUSA advertising/spamming?
I don't, why are you lying?
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I don't, why are you lying?
I am not lying, it's there for everyone to see. It's plain obvious.
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I don't, why are you lying?
Most of the time you do.
But its not that big a deal as we all know you.
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See?
Derailed thread in favour of CUSA talking...I might start doing the same. ;)