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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: TheGoose on June 03, 2011, 02:00:50 AM

Title: A1000 NTSC + Adapter + Indivision = don't fit ?
Post by: TheGoose on June 03, 2011, 02:00:50 AM
Ok, I just don't get it so I made a video.

[youtube]lNNkDqR7_Z4[/youtube]
Title: Re: A1000 NTSC + Adapter + Indivision = don't fit ?
Post by: Franko on June 03, 2011, 02:24:57 AM
Wow... you never cease to amaze me TheGoose... :afro:

First you do a brilliant Woody Allen impersonation, then you do an equally impressive Swedish Cuckoo Clock Maker looky likey and now you've topped them all with that brilliant Michael Jackson voice... :D

A man of many talents I see, need to get you an agent quick... :)

PS:Sorry can't help with the A1000 problem as I don't have one anymore... :(
Title: Re: A1000 NTSC + Adapter + Indivision = don't fit ?
Post by: Jeff on June 03, 2011, 02:25:27 AM
Doesn't the Indivision go in the Denise socket? You say Paula in your video. Just checking. I made an adapter to put a FFV in my 1000 and it goes in the Denise socket.
Title: Re: A1000 NTSC + Adapter + Indivision = don't fit ?
Post by: mongo on June 03, 2011, 02:29:19 AM
Quote from: Jeff;642075
Doesn't the Indivision go in the Denise socket? You say Paula in your video. Just checking. I made an adapter to put a FFV in my 1000 and it goes in the Denise socket.


The adapter for the 1000 goes in the Paula socket.

Looks like it was designed by someone who had a 1000 without the daughter board.
Title: Re: A1000 NTSC + Adapter + Indivision = don't fit ?
Post by: TheGoose on June 03, 2011, 02:50:39 AM
Well, at least it wasn't Mike Tyson... :lol:

Helllooooo Paging Dr. Schönfeld...
Title: Re: A1000 NTSC + Adapter + Indivision = don't fit ?
Post by: amigadave on June 03, 2011, 03:41:33 AM
I just ordered one of these A1000 adapters for the ECS Indivision from AmigaKit, and now you are saying that it does not fit???

Since I also live in the lands of NTSC and I think that all of my A1000's have daughter-boards in them, this would be a problem for me as well.  I wonder why no one else has reported this on any forums and there is no mention of it from Individual Computers, or warning on the AmigaKit site?

I was not even aware that there were/are any A1000 models that came without the daughter-boards.
Title: Re: A1000 NTSC + Adapter + Indivision = don't fit ?
Post by: Jeff on June 03, 2011, 03:54:36 AM
Sorry, my A1000 days are distant foggy memories.  Glad there are qualified people here with the correct answers. Hope it is resolved soon.
Title: Re: A1000 NTSC + Adapter + Indivision = don't fit ?
Post by: TheGoose on June 03, 2011, 03:59:52 AM
Quote from: amigadave;642091
I just ordered one of these A1000 adapters for the ECS Indivision from AmigaKit, and now you are saying that it does not fit???

Since I also live in the lands of NTSC and I think that all of my A1000's have daughter-boards in them, this would be a problem for me as well.  I wonder why no one else has reported this on any forums and there is no mention of it from Individual Computers, or warning on the AmigaKit site?

I was not even aware that there were/are any A1000 models that came without the daughter-boards.

We can hope I'll be shot to pieces and there is no problem. That's what I'm hoping for. I asked AmigaKit if they had any examples, images of this configuration, no is what they responded. I also wrote Jens today. Then I made the video.

To me, the adapter board could have been made to work over the Denise just as easily, see Jeff's work with an ICD board:

http://www.amiga.org/gallery/images/1782/1_3949.jpg
Title: Re: A1000 NTSC + Adapter + Indivision = don't fit ?
Post by: Jeff on June 03, 2011, 04:21:56 AM
Maybe the adapter I made would work for this one too? Does Paula have the same number of pins as Denise?
Title: Re: A1000 NTSC + Adapter + Indivision = don't fit ?
Post by: Digiman on June 03, 2011, 07:23:02 AM
Only A1000s that use Kickstart ROM and remove the Kickstart WOM RAM wouldn't have a daughterboard......very rare!
Title: Re: A1000 NTSC + Adapter + Indivision = don't fit ?
Post by: Brian on June 03, 2011, 08:49:44 AM
Quote from: TheGoose;642059
Ok, I just don't get it so I made a video.

[youtube]lNNkDqR7_Z4[/youtube]

I think it's as simple as setting the adaptor over the right chip, the Denise, and not the Paula chip?
Title: Re: A1000 NTSC + Adapter + Indivision = don't fit ?
Post by: Jeff on June 03, 2011, 12:26:51 PM
I have read and re-read the Indivision ECS directions and it says nothing about the Paula chip. Please check again because I am sure the adapter goes in the Denise socket "because the power supply is in the way".
Title: Re: A1000 NTSC + Adapter + Indivision = don't fit ?
Post by: TheGoose on June 03, 2011, 01:52:46 PM
Quote from: Jeff;642145
I have read and re-read the Indivision ECS directions and it says nothing about the Paula chip. Please check again because I am sure the adapter goes in the Denise socket "because the power supply is in the way".


AmigaKit has removed their instructions page... that was there yesterday:
http://www.amigakit.co.uk/support/indivision-ecs-a1000.php

Remember we are talking about the Adapter board instruction for A1000, not the Indivision itself.
Title: Re: A1000 NTSC + Adapter + Indivision = don't fit ?
Post by: Jeff on June 03, 2011, 02:00:08 PM
Ok, sorry. I don't actually own one so I can't speak from experience, obviously.
Title: Re: A1000 NTSC + Adapter + Indivision = don't fit ?
Post by: Brian on June 03, 2011, 03:14:39 PM
On the A500, A2000, A3000 and CDTV the IndivisionECS goes where the Denise chip sits. Obviously AmigaKit have some leftover pin/formfactor-compatible paula adapters for some other hardware that they are selling for use with the IndivisionECS in A1000. As long as the adapter is pin for pin transferred over there should be no problem in using it and just ignore the "Paula" socket on the adapter. The adapter is just to move the IndivisionECS out of the way of the A1000 PSU.
Title: Re: A1000 NTSC + Adapter + Indivision = don't fit ?
Post by: mongo on June 03, 2011, 03:22:36 PM
Quote from: Brian;642159
On the A500, A2000, A3000 and CDTV the IndivisionECS goes where the Denise chip sits. Obviously AmigaKit have some leftover pin/formfactor-compatible paula adapters for some other hardware that they are selling for use with the IndivisionECS in A1000. As long as the adapter is pin for pin transferred over there should be no problem in using it and just ignore the "Paula" socket on the adapter.


No.

The adapter is designed to connect the Indivision to the Paula socket.

This is from AmigaKit's installation instructions :

Quote
Insert the Socket Adapter with Paula chip and Indivision ECS into the empty A1000 motherboard socket that used to contain the Paula chip. Once again it is very important to place the unit into the socket with the correct orientation. Ensure that all pins are making good contact and that they are not bent or displaced.
 
When the Indivision ECS is used the A1000 and socket adapter, do not remove the Denise chip from the A1000 motherboard socket. The Denise socket on the top of the Indivision ECS can remain empty.
Title: Re: A1000 NTSC + Adapter + Indivision = don't fit ?
Post by: doctorq on June 03, 2011, 03:45:50 PM
It just doesn't sound right to put a video display board in a socket for an audio chip. I'm guessing on wrong description as well.
Title: Re: A1000 NTSC + Adapter + Indivision = don't fit ?
Post by: Kronos on June 03, 2011, 04:05:17 PM
The Indi-ECS does not need to be directly connected to Denise (see A603), all it needs is access the chipset signals. If a full set of those can be found on Paula's socket thats all it needs.
Title: Re: A1000 NTSC + Adapter + Indivision = don't fit ?
Post by: TheGoose on June 03, 2011, 04:05:36 PM
Quote from: Brian;642159
On the A500, A2000, A3000 and CDTV the IndivisionECS goes where the Denise chip sits. Obviously AmigaKit have some leftover pin/formfactor-compatible paula adapters for some other hardware that they are selling for use with the IndivisionECS in A1000. As long as the adapter is pin for pin transferred over there should be no problem in using it and just ignore the "Paula" socket on the adapter. The adapter is just to move the IndivisionECS out of the way of the A1000 PSU.


The only thing that is obvious to me is that there is an issue. I uncovered it and hope to get a response from somebody. Jens / AmigaKit...
Title: Re: A1000 NTSC + Adapter + Indivision = don't fit ?
Post by: amigadave on June 03, 2011, 07:42:09 PM
Quote from: TheGoose;642170
The only thing that is obvious to me is that there is an issue. I uncovered it and hope to get a response from somebody. Jens / AmigaKit...

Yes, thanks for bringing this problem to the attention of all of us and AmigaKit & Individual Computers.  Too many forum members like to offer advice for problems they do not have direct experience with, or knowledge about.  I understand that they are only trying to help, but could actually end up hurting the situation with incorrect advice.
Title: Re: A1000 NTSC + Adapter + Indivision = don't fit ?
Post by: TheGoose on June 03, 2011, 08:19:45 PM
Quote from: amigadave;642223
Yes, thanks for bringing this problem to the attention of all of us and AmigaKit & Individual Computers.  Too many forum members like to offer advice for problems they do not have direct experience with, or knowledge about.  I understand that they are only trying to help, but could actually end up hurting the situation with incorrect advice.


Thanks AmigaDave, I tend to agree. We'll figure something out. I'll study the pinouts and the board some tonight

We also discovered I need to use voice enhancement technology for my next video. Maybe a vocoder...:lol:
Title: Re: A1000 NTSC + Adapter + Indivision = don't fit ?
Post by: motrucker on June 03, 2011, 08:48:20 PM
Who designed the adapter? Was it Jens or Amigagit?
Ether way I am sure it will be fixed. I agree with the observations that this must have been designed for an A1000 without a daughter board. I used to have one sans daughter board, but that was years ago, and I can't remember the differences.
One thing's sure - you have us all glued to our screens....
Title: Re: A1000 NTSC + Adapter + Indivision = don't fit ?
Post by: pan1k on June 03, 2011, 09:33:11 PM
Quote from: thegoose;642230

we also discovered i need to use voice enhancement technology for my next video. Maybe a vocoder...:lol:


autotune!
Title: Re: A1000 NTSC + Adapter + Indivision = don't fit ?
Post by: Franko on June 03, 2011, 11:52:55 PM
Problem Sorted... :)

(Well the audio problem on the video not the Indivision problem... sorry)... :(

[youtube]yCXvU5yZsCE[/youtube]

NOTICE: No animals (especially cats) were harmed during the making of this film (despite what it  sounds like at then end of the video)... HONEST... :D
Title: Re: A1000 NTSC + Adapter + Indivision = don't fit ?
Post by: magnetic on June 03, 2011, 11:56:20 PM
The goose

This is a new product you paid retail for? Why dont you seek help from the vendor and/or manufacturer? If its sold as supporting the a1k it should!
Title: Re: A1000 NTSC + Adapter + Indivision = don't fit ?
Post by: shaf on June 04, 2011, 12:22:03 AM
I remember reading that the Euro A1000's did not have a daughterboard, the daughterboard was only on NTSC A1000's. If that's the case it's likely that Jens didn't have an NTSC A1000 to test with and only tested on the PAL A1000.

I've worked on a lot of A1000's they have all been North American NTSC units.
Title: Re: A1000 NTSC + Adapter + Indivision = don't fit ?
Post by: TheGoose on June 04, 2011, 01:15:16 AM
@Franko

:lol:

Well at least we're having fun, Warf and Billbo Baggins do the video not me...
Title: Re: A1000 NTSC + Adapter + Indivision = don't fit ?
Post by: Franko on June 04, 2011, 01:27:57 AM
Quote from: TheGoose;642279
@Franko

:lol:

Well at least we're having fun, Warf and Billbo Baggins do the video not me...


Glad you can laugh about it... :)

On a more serious note, I take it you have just purchased this from AmigaKit from what I understand and now it seems they have removed the instructions page... :(

AmigaKit like to say that they check all products before shipping so surely if you purchased it from them then someone there must be able to tell you how to fit the thing, all seems kinda strange to me... :confused:

I think if I were you I'd be asking for a full refund on this item and try to find out from someone who has already managed to install one on their NTSC A1000 where they bought theirs... :)

PS: I ask Gandalf to help but he's just disappeared out me kitchen window on a giant eagle... :)
Title: Re: A1000 NTSC + Adapter + Indivision = don't fit ?
Post by: spihunter on June 04, 2011, 01:49:22 AM
Quote from: Franko;642284
Glad you can laugh about it... :)

On a more serious note, I take it you have just purchased this from AmigaKit from what I understand and now it seems they have removed the instructions page... :(

AmigaKit like to say that they check all products before shipping so surely if you purchased it from them then someone there must be able to tell you how to fit the thing, all seems kinda strange to me... :confused:

I think if I were you I'd be asking for a full refund on this item and try to find out from someone who has already managed to install one on their NTSC A1000 where they bought theirs... :)

PS: I ask Gandalf to help but he's just disappeared out me kitchen window on a giant eagle... :)


I would give Amigakit/Jens a bit of a break on this one. I can imagine they don't have every Amiga model ever to test these on. These guys may have never seen an NTSC A1000!.

A simple refund would be best.
Title: Re: A1000 NTSC + Adapter + Indivision = don't fit ?
Post by: Franko on June 04, 2011, 02:41:41 AM
Quote from: spihunter;642291
I would give Amigakit/Jens a bit of a break on this one. I can imagine they don't have every Amiga model ever to test these on. These guys may have never seen an NTSC A1000!.

A simple refund would be best.


I think you picked me up wrong, I'm not having a go at AmigaKit, just find it a bit surprising (if indeed it was purchased from them) that the lack of help in trying sort out TheGoose's problem here is to say the least a bit disappointing... :)
Title: Re: A1000 NTSC + Adapter + Indivision = don't fit ?
Post by: TheGoose on June 04, 2011, 02:19:54 PM
Ok, I fix it. Ugly but it doesn't bother me.

[youtube]-kDXasISFJU[/youtube]
Title: Re: A1000 NTSC + Adapter + Indivision = don't fit ?
Post by: Franko on June 04, 2011, 02:51:04 PM
:banana: Yeah... Well Done TheGoose (AKA Woody Allen Cuckoo Clock Maker & Wacko Jacko Impersonator) :banana:

You should open an Amiga repair/upgrade store round your way... nice one... :)

PS: Goody... another video for me to erm... borrow... ;)
Title: Re: A1000 NTSC + Adapter + Indivision = don't fit ?
Post by: motrucker on June 05, 2011, 10:50:56 PM
If that's what it takes, I may well buy of these myself. Thank you for this post!
Title: Re: A1000 NTSC + Adapter + Indivision = don't fit ?
Post by: unclemat on September 09, 2012, 07:22:52 AM
So what was the fix? The last video is gone :(
Title: Re: A1000 NTSC + Adapter + Indivision = don't fit ?
Post by: Heiroglyph on July 27, 2016, 07:26:19 PM
I'm reviving this thread because the video is gone.

Does anyone remember how this was solved? What was the modification?
Title: Re: A1000 NTSC + Adapter + Indivision = don't fit ?
Post by: SnkBitten on July 27, 2016, 11:16:38 PM
Yes, curious to know as well. I've been an A1000 fan from the beginning....I still have the receipt from when I bought mine back 1985.