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Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: HotRod on June 02, 2011, 01:03:38 PM
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Hello!
I'd like to know why people using AOS 3 doesn't jump on the AOS 4 train? What is holding you back exactly? I've been an a4k user myself and wasn't sure when I bought my amigaone but I haven't regret it ever and it really is amiga in every single way but upgraded.
Now I'm sure that some MOS users will go crazy here since I didn't mention MOS but I'm wondering why people are stuck with the classics. Nothing wrong with that except that they are missing out on so many great things.
This is offcourse in my opinion but I feal that taking a step forward wouldn't hurt? Also you can keep your classics while moving forward!
I feal really at home with aos 4, just like using aos 3 but better. I've read that 4.0 classic wasn't good but for my amigaone it runs really well actually and from what I've read it does on the SAM boards too. Why not give it a try, it won't hurt you :-P
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Some people want the real Amiga so they can run real Amiga software on real Amiga hardware. OS4 doesn't bring any of that to the table.
Still other reasons include not wanting to associate with developers who want the user community to die in a fire (Rigo for example). That sort of thing.
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Hello!
I'd like to know why people using AOS 3 doesn't jump on the AOS 4 train? What is holding you back exactly?
Why not give it a try, it won't hurt you :-P
It's AOS4 that's holding me back from using AOS4... ;)
Reason being after having bought OS4.0 to run on my BlizzardPPC 240Mhz it was slower than a dead donkey with arthritis and three of it's legs missing... :(
Believe me it does hurt... especially your wallet... just remember you need a PPC board and GFX card for OS4.X to be of any use and the vast majority of Amiga users don't own these things... ;)
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Been there, done that, thought it was a very poor product.
I bought OS4.0 classic that i couldn't get to run without major hardware rejigging in my 4000, So I bought a Sam and in my opinion it was a major step back compared to the a fully tweaked 3.9 setup. I alredy had a Peg2 running Morphos 2 and was using AROS so I suppose I had certain expectations for a next gen Amiga that OS4 just didn't deliver.
Anyway I sold the sam and OS4 classic off and unlike the classics i've sold, I never regretted it for a moment.
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I am quite happy with my classic systems. They run all the old software natively. If I wanted to run them emulated I'd just use UAE rather than AOS 4. I've got a Mac Mini running MOS, which is nice. I run AROS through VirtualBox, but in the end it's only the classic systems that feel Amiga to me.
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It's AOS4 that's holding me back from using AOS4... ;)
Reason being after having bought OS4.0 to run on my BlizzardPPC 240Mhz it was slower than a dead donkey with arthritis and three of it's legs missing... :(
Believe me it does hurt... especially your wallet... just remember you need a PPC board and GFX card for OS4.X to be of any use and the vast majority of Amiga users don't own these things... ;)
I haven't used OS 4.0 Classic so I wouldn't know but from what I've read lots of people was dissapointed and that's a shame, really. Hmm... What about giving it another try then? Like I said I'm happy with it on my amigaone and people seems to be enjoying it on their SAMs.
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Well, I have kind of "jumped on the train", since I do own a Micro-A1 with OS4.1. But I hardly ever use it, since the platform doesn't really excite me that much. It is a generic PPC box with none of the uniqueness and hardware-intimate hacking joy that my classics offers me. OS4 is an admirable effort, but the software I use is 68k-based, so I might as well run it on my classics instead of emulating it on a foreign architecture-based system.
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So I bought a Sam and in my opinion it was a major step back compared to the a fully tweaked 3.9 setup.
Anyway I sold the sam and OS4 classic off and unlike the classics i've sold, I never regretted it for a moment.
After years of productivity and fun with my OS3.9 setups my purchase of a SAM with OS4.1 was a huge step forward, which I never regretted.
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I will likely never purchase aos4 or an aos4 machine.
The cost is ridiculous for 10+ year old hardware specs.
AROS is worlds ahead in my opinion...
Steven
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They run all the old software natively. If I wanted to run them emulated I'd just use UAE rather than AOS 4. I've got a Mac Mini running MOS, which is nice.
Ha? And of course you don't use MorphOS to "run them emulated", but use UAE instead? :-)
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AROS is worlds ahead in my opinion...
No it isn't - in my opinion. But it might be some day, if developement goes on with the recent pace...
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I am quite happy with my classic systems. They run all the old software natively. If I wanted to run them emulated I'd just use UAE rather than AOS 4. I've got a Mac Mini running MOS, which is nice. I run AROS through VirtualBox, but in the end it's only the classic systems that feel Amiga to me.
I haven't used MOS so I wouldn't know. AROS on the other hand doesn't feal very Amiga to me at all. To me AOS 4 works just like AOS 3.9 but with lots of improvements and old software runs really fast now compared to my a4k with a CSPPC.
I feal that I'm sounding like some salesman which I'm not but I'd really like for those who's had a bad experience to give it another go. I DO think that AOS 4 should work just as well as AOS 3.9 with the hardware though but if some old hardware doesn't work it shouldn't be the end of the world, it might be impossible to write drivers because of lack of documentation.
Once again, I'm happy with my amigaone and aos 4, it didn't feel too bad going from aos 3.9 to 4.0 even though the first versions had lots of issues. Now it works pretty well though and feals just like my a4k did with PCI expansion, voodoo 4 graphicscard, fastata III and what not but better in every way. Sure SOME software doesn't work natively but you might be supriced by how much does and it's way faster too. It isn't like runing UAE AT ALL. You run old programs in MOS in the same way you do in AOS 4, there's no difference, With AROS there is.
If you're used to AOS and been using it up to 3.9 then 4.x feals like a natural step forward. At least it did to me...
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You are forgetting something ,an amiga one is much more powerful than a cyberstorm ppc amiga running classic os 4.x.imagine that your amigaone was only 233 MHz and could only utilize -until recently- only 256 ram .it would hardly be a nice setup let alone running CPU and ram hungry applications.From what I understand the latest 4.1 on classics is much faster in eye candy stuff and GfX appearing than the previous but you have to have the most expensive amiga peripherals to have a machine that is only capable of achieving part of amiga one performance.THat's the reason most people prefer 68k based os and amiga os 3.9 at least amiga os was based on motorola and with some datatypes or warp os or phase 5 solution you.can have something good. I think amiga os 4.1.2 should have appeared back in 1997 things would be better.
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I will likely never purchase aos4 or an aos4 machine.
The cost is ridiculous for 10+ year old hardware specs.
AROS is worlds ahead in my opinion...
Steven
The hardware is ahead, the OS is behind and far behind too.
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You are forgetting something ,an amiga one is much more powerful than a cyberstorm ppc amiga running classic os 4.x.imagine that your amigaone was only 233 MHz and could only utilize -until recently- only 256 ram .it would hardly be a nice setup let alone running CPU and ram hungry applications.From what I understand the latest 4.1 on classics is much faster in eye candy stuff and GfX appearing than the previous but you have to have the most expensive amiga peripherals to have a machine that is only capable of achieving part of amiga one performance.THat's the reason most people prefer 68k based os and amiga os 3.9 at least amiga os was based on motorola and with some datatypes or warp os or phase 5 solution you.can have something good. I think amiga os 4.1.2 should have appeared back in 1997 things would be better.
I can understand that but on the other hand it might be time to buy something new. Those machines are from -92-94 (and later ones from Escom). My a4k are from -93. The question is if you would like 4 colour icons for the rest of your life and 8 colour wallpapers? These things require more RAM. When I first got a graphicscard for my a4k I had 8MB RAM which was overkill but as soon as I installed the gfxcard and cybergraphis I took allmost all of that away! I didn't understand why back then and I still don't since the graphicscard got its own RAM but hey... that was a price I had to pay if I didn't want to be stuck with AGA for the rest of my life.
I don't know how much you can strip down AOS 4 to make it use as little RAM as possible but it's made to be run in high resolutions with nice icons and wallpapers. You can still drop the theme and make it look like AOS 3.x, remove the wallpaper, replace the icons and don't use a 32-bit mousepointer but isn't the thing about moving forward?
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I stepped into the AmigaOS 4 realm back in January 2005 and never regret it. I used extensively my Amiga 4000 before, but after I got my microAmigaOne I did not switch the A4000 for months and eventually sold it for a bargain price. The fact that the A4000 hard drive worked straight away with all the partitions on AmigaOS 4 helped a lot. I did not have any trouble with the migration. I started to use all the old apps without any trouble. I played all the emulators that were too slow for 68K Amigas - Sam Coupe, MAME, AtariST, GameBoy Advanced.
I used Amiga since 1993 and the AmigaOS 4 was the biggest upgrade I ever saw on the Amigas after the 1.3->2.0 update. At the beginning AmigaOS 4 was still in beta but it was much better than my AmigaOS 3.9 BB2 install in everything. TCP stack without any trouble, transparent startup of 68000 applications and true colors graphics. Okay, you can have true color in classic Amgias, but you need accelerator board, graphic board, network board for ethernet, melody card for good sound etc. Since I was not interested in creating Amiga Frankestein machine that would cost me more than the MicroAmiga, I am more happy with my current Amiga config that works flawlessly for more than 6 years now.
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I haven't used OS 4.0 Classic so I wouldn't know but from what I've read lots of people was dissapointed and that's a shame, really. Hmm... What about giving it another try then? Like I said I'm happy with it on my amigaone and people seems to be enjoying it on their SAMs.
AppleHammer just recently pointed out to me that even the latest version of OS4.x would be of no use to me without a GFX card to go with my BPPC... :(
To be honest after my experience with OS4.0 and being abandoned by Hyperion after just one "upgrade" then even if I ever do get hold of BVision board OS4.x is not for me anymore I'm afraid... :)
My 060's and OS3.1 & OS3.5 can do everything I require from an Amiga and the PPC comes in handy for PPC versions of programs like Lame & Frodo without the need to install what I consider a rather bloated OS like OS4.x ... :)
As I'll never buy anything like a SAM then OS4 will never really be something I'd consider buying again... :)
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In my case, OS4 isnt able to do what my Classic 68k 3.9 does. For example:
I watch TV on my workbench (with OS4 I cant)
I use USB 2.0 (with OS4 I cant)
68k compatibility on 3.9 is great (whdload, demos, etc), much better than in an emulated enviroment, as everything works the way it is supposed to with no glitches.
And I dont think there is a single appealing app for PPC that is not a port of a Linux/Windows thing (better use that thing on faster x86).
Dont get me wrong, I had an AmigaOne with OS4 ages ago, and I dont regret selling it for an instant!
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@HotRod
2 words: Developer tools. If you develop for something other than C/C++ you're kind of stuck if you ever try to move up to PPC. I tried to make an AmosPro equivalent for OS 4 and MOS but it proved to be too difficult. It's easier to develop a new computer out of an FPGA to run OS 3 and AmosPro than it is to make a new AmosPro to run on OS 4.
Have you ever tried to convert a Copper list from classic Amiga to a system that doesn't have a Copper? It requires fragment shaders and as of version 4.1.x shaders are still not supported by AmigaOS 4. Maybe after the Gallium drivers get written for OS 4 there will be shader support and a Copper equivalent that can be used to run old software.
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So I bought a Sam and in my opinion it was a major step back compared to the a fully tweaked 3.9 setup.
"Fully tweaked" is the key thing here... How does OS4 compare to a plain OS3.9 install? And don't forget OS4.1 has addressed many of the issues users found with 4.0. If you don't have the hardware to run 4.x, then 3.9 is fine, great even, but since I got my A1 many years ago I can honestly say my pimped out A1200 tower gets turned on less than once a month. I use a wedge A1200 with an 030 for my classic gaming needs, and OS4.1 runs everything else. AROS will be a good alternative some day but it's not quite there yet. And I'll probably give MOS a go if/when it supports my G5 tower or my G4 iBook.
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I will likely never purchase aos4 or an aos4 machine.
The cost is ridiculous for 10+ year old hardware specs.
AROS is worlds ahead in my opinion...
Steven
The hardware is ahead, the OS is behind and far behind too.
I don't think so. I've tried out a friends os4 system and ware really dissapointed. I expected it to be more feature rich than AROS but the truth is, it really isn't.
I expected it might be faster, but the truth is, AOS4 on a 1ghz system is certainly less snappy than Aros on a 2ghz pc. Aros on a 3ghz system smokes it. No comparison at all.
Icaros also comes preconfigured with tons of utilities, games, apps and so on. AOS4 comes with nothing, and your likely to spend a few weeks getting it up to the functionality of a freshly installed icaros system.
To each his own. I choose AROS.
:laughing:
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Very simple reason I don't try AOS4, I can't justify the cost of the PPC hardware.
IMHO, if they don't switch platforms there is zero future in it.
Amithlon was the one decent idea in the Amiga market in the last 15 years and they mismanaged/litigated that one to death.
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I agree ppc hardware is too crazy expensive for a dead platform.
Yes Amithlon was a fantastic thing. Its really too bad they killed it. Amiga curse in full effect...
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Basically this: if I want something that will run on my A3000/040, OS4 isn't it. If I want an Amiga-like operating system that will run on PPC hardware that can be had cheaper than an Amiga PPC accelerator, OS4 isn't that, either. To run it, I'd need either a PPC accelerator (one of the most ridiculously expensive things you can buy for your Amiga,) or an OS4-supported custom PPC board (one of the other most ridiculously expensive things you can buy for your Amiga.)
And even if I already had those, there are a nice variety of OS options that don't involve shelling out a couple hundred bucks to one of the assorted shysters currently exploiting the Amiga name.
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In my case, OS4 isnt able to do what my Classic 68k 3.9 does. For example:
I use USB 2.0 (with OS4 I cant)
If your Classic Amiga has Zorro III you can get USB 2.0 with the Deneb card. It works with the Poseidon USB stack under AmigaOS 4.0 or 4.1 Classic.
But obviously due to the limitations of Zorro III (and even worse Zorro II) you won't get anywhere near the 480Mbps of USB2 high speed.
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I can't justify moving to AOS4.x for 2 reasons. First, the PPC platform doesn't have much of a future. Even Apple dropped it. Second, hardware is, hard to get, and if you can get it, is quite expensive. The reason I got into the Amiga back in 1986 was because of its bang for the buck vs Macs and PC Clones.
What I like about AROS, is that it is more responsive on the same machine compared to Windows XP, Vista or 7. I have my AROS installed on a Dell GX280 3.2 GHz CPU, 2 GB RAM, 80 GB HD, AC97 Audio, NVidia GS8400 PCI-e Video, 3Com Ethernet card, which I picked up for nothing and it flies. It even does Screen scrolling like the old Amigas.
It's not complete yet. I'd still like better printing capability. But it is progressing very rapidly now. And there are two good distributions, Icaros Desktop and AROS Broadway. Also, it is being ported to 68K platforms, so not only will it work on upcoming NATAMI, Clone-A, etc..., but even on old classic hardware.
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If your Classic Amiga has Zorro III you can get USB 2.0 with the Deneb card. It works with the Poseidon USB stack under AmigaOS 4.0 or 4.1 Classic.
But obviously due to the limitations of Zorro III (and even worse Zorro II) you won't get anywhere near the 480Mbps of USB2 high speed.
Interesting... but anyway, I would still loose my TV watching ability on workbench.
In the end it seems much more reasonable to me to keep using 3.9 and its many tweaks, and then use aros from time to time on my affordable x86 as my next gen Amigaish OS.
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If your Classic Amiga has Zorro III you can get USB 2.0 with the Deneb card. It works with the Poseidon USB stack under AmigaOS 4.0 or 4.1 Classic.
But obviously due to the limitations of Zorro III (and even worse Zorro II) you won't get anywhere near the 480Mbps of USB2 high speed.
And Deneb won't do DMA on OS4 due to OS4 incompatibility/limitations dealing with perfectly fine DMA OS3 drivers. BlizzardPPC/A4000T scsi situation is worse because it won't work at all.
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The hardware is ahead, the OS is behind and far behind too.
At least AROS has a proper USB2.0 stack and better driver support (2D/3D gfx cards, better WiFi support)
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I forgot to say that I when I switched to AmigaOS 4 and even today I use Amiga as main machine i.e. it can be considered modern use of computer. Back in 2004 the use of Internet on Amiga 4000 with AGA was terrible. I was browsing without graphics, because the graphics were seen only dithered to 32 color. Switching to 64 colors Workbench rendered the machine useless and lowered the Internet bandwidth speed. I never listened to MP3s, because the decoding took too many resources.
The people who said they are okay with AmigaOS 3 and have no interest in AmigaOS 4 are using their machines for gaming and retro tinkering, not for modern tasks. AmigaOS 3 is just fine for their needs, since they have a laptop PC or Mac Desktop machine nearby to check their g-mail accounts, Facebook and YouTube.
But if use your Amiga for some professional task or want to use it for what is considered modern computing - e-mail, YouTube, Videos, MP3, emulation, c++ coding etc, AmigaOS 4 is a need, not luxury.
While I can not watch TV on my AmigaOne, I happily watch shows that I want to watch on my Amiga with Cyrillic subtitles. While I can not play with Sega D-Pad, I can play with USB joystick with 10 buttons and analog paddles on my AmigaOne. While I can not listen to native Paula sounds, I enjoy full quality Tunenet songs in wide variety of formats, that were very hard to replay on A4000. All this thanks to AmigaOS 4.
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Aos4 is not only numerically greater than Aos 3 ;-) But is the natural successor to Aos3 and comes bundled with the all features you probably will know about already.
Surfing the net is vital these days; nothing pre-Aos4 is suitable for internet browsing - sorry iBrowse advocates - but its no longer 1993.
And contrary to what HaywirePC posted above; Aos4 does in fact come ready bundled or as you put it pre-configured (probably wrong word you picked there) with all the apps and utilities that you would expect. Quick examples, DOpus, File, Simplemail/Yam, SGrab, AmiFTP, Pftp and many other popular apps you will find on OSDepot. They where already installed on the hard drive when my SAM 460 arrived - they are also available on the included CD.
Personally I'd love talk about this again say end of July when perhaps someone can compare Timberwolf running on AmigaOS Classic vs AmigaOS 2011. That would be quite something to see running on an ancient A4000!
Edit: drHirudo - Yeah good points. Aos3 isn't for modern computing. Hence why its referred to as Classic, by just about everyone.
Edit 2: Gulliver - Of course I have no idea where you come from as your Avatar says nothing. But I would imagine other countries (if they haven't already) will be joining the UK and ditching all TV analogue broadcasts. "And they call it progress!"
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The people who said they are okay with AmigaOS 3 and have no interest in AmigaOS 4 are using their machines for gaming and retro tinkering, not for modern tasks. AmigaOS 3 is just fine for their needs, since they have a laptop PC or Mac Desktop machine nearby to check their g-mail accounts, Facebook and YouTube.
But if use your Amiga for some professional task or want to use it for what is considered modern computing - e-mail, YouTube, Videos, MP3, emulation, c++ coding etc, AmigaOS 4 is a need, not luxury.
Hardly. More powerful hardware might be considered a need (though really, you can do a lot more with classic hardware than next-gen evangelists seem to think,) but OS4 is just one possible approach to utilizing it. Even if you're not the type to work a WB3.1 install into something more capable, PPC hardware opens up a much broader range of software options than just OS4 - there's also MorphOS, AROS, and Linux to consider, the latter two of which have the advantage of being free.
Edit 2: Gulliver - Of course I have no idea where you come from as your Avatar says nothing. But I would imagine other countries (if they haven't already) will be joining the UK and ditching all TV analogue broadcasts. "And they call it progress!"
Unfortunately, the US already has :/ You can still get a converter box, though.
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Hardly. More powerful hardware might be considered a need (though really, you can do a lot more with classic hardware than next-gen evangelists seem to think,)
I know what I can do with classic hardware. I used classic Amigas till 2004 and even at the beginning at 2005. I also know what you can not do (68060 board and melody sound card incompatible). I used my Amiga 4000 to code games for SuperNES, grab TV frames, sample sounds, burn CDs and many other tasks non occasional task. But if I want to use Amiga for better up to date tasks, the AmigaOS 4 offers me much more options than AmigaOS 3. And easier. That's it.
As I said if you want to play Lemmings, draw pixel pictures in Personal Paint (PPaint is much better for me on AmigaOS 4 btw), listen to .MODs and watch demos, check e-mails, IRC, classic Amigas are just fine and I would kept mine if I was interested in only this. But I want more from my Amiga.
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Surfing the net is vital these days; nothing pre-Aos4 is suitable for internet browsing - sorry iBrowse advocates - but its no longer 1993.
Currently, the only way to legally acquire non time limited version of IBrowse is to buy AmigaOS 4. (works on AmigaOS 3). Oh, the irony.
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Edit: drHirudo - Yeah good points. Aos3 isn't for modern computing. Hence why its referred to as Classic, by just about everyone.
Until I went online last year I had only ever came across the term "Classic" being used to describe the Amiga once before and that was by Hyperion for their launch of OS4.0... :)
To me it's quite simple and no-one can say otherwise, an Amiga is quite simply the the original hardware built by CMB, Amiga Technologies & for a Short Time sold by Escom/ Gateway... :)
Everything else that people like to call an Amiga quite simply is not an Amiga and never will be... :)
So perhaps it time to drop the "classic" tag for the real and genuine Amiga hardware and instead when talking about these other things (SAM etc..) put a tag on them like "Wannabes" or "Imitation Products" when talking about them instead... ;)
PS:I you think the Amiga isn't for "modern computing" then your delusional... :)
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But if I want to use Amiga for better up to date tasks, the AmigaOS 4 offers me much more options than AmigaOS 3. And easier. That's it.
Eh, I still maintain that classic hardware is undervalued, but even so, OS4 is hardly the only option for more powerful hardware.
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And Deneb won't do DMA on OS4 due to OS4 incompatibility/limitations dealing with perfectly fine DMA OS3 drivers. BlizzardPPC/A4000T scsi situation is worse because it won't work at all.
It's not about any OS4 "limitations", but rather a different way the OS4.x memory system handles DMA. A scatter/gather method of DMA would have to be implemented as that is how it is done under OS 4.x (to my knowledge).
It could be done with a firmware/driver update on the Deneb.
Same for blizzard or A4000T scsi - we just need a driver written natively for OS4.1.
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Years ago I went with (7 or so) a Peg2 and MOS. I never used AOS4, so I can't say anything about it.
The Peg 2 back in the day was a decent box for games and productivity, and BBRV were very responsive to make my experience pleasant. Today, the OS has been greatly enhanced and is pretty slick and surfing is almost decent. Not bad for such an old box.
I still enjoy tinkering with the classic hardware and have fun with older games.
The issue for people my age is that I don't have time anymore for hobby/fun computer use. I bought my first Amiga when I was in my teens now and in my forty's. Priorities have changed for me and I bet many original classic users. I used the classic systems for fun and enjoyed user groups and learning. Now I use MOS as a productivity tool to get the job done and that is it. Different really.
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I will likely never purchase aos4 or an aos4 machine.
The cost is ridiculous for 10+ year old hardware specs.
AROS is worlds ahead in my opinion...
Steven
The hardware is ahead, the OS is behind and far behind too.
I don't think so. I've tried out a friends os4 system and ware really dissapointed. I expected it to be more feature rich than AROS but the truth is, it really isn't.
I expected it might be faster, but the truth is, AOS4 on a 1ghz system is certainly less snappy than Aros on a 2ghz pc. Aros on a 3ghz system smokes it. No comparison at all.
Icaros also comes preconfigured with tons of utilities, games, apps and so on. AOS4 comes with nothing, and your likely to spend a few weeks getting it up to the functionality of a freshly installed icaros system.
To each his own. I choose AROS.
:laughing:
The fun is to install software yourself, software and games that you as a user enjoy but that might not be fore everyone which is the case with AROS. I didn't find much software for AROS that required a modern PC to begin with. MPlayer is probably faster but hey, DOpus or the calculator? Also it is really ugly to me in every way.
Funny thing about "have to use UAE" which is only the case with AROS, you don't have to in AOS 4 or MOS except for old games/demos and offcourse a few old apps.
I don't have to spend a few weeks to get AOS 4 usable, with AOS 3.x you have to and most likely with AROS. When did you run AOS 4? It comes with much needed software like webbrowsers, a burning app and other little things that you need and then you download whatever you want. It's like with some Linux distros, you get a bunch of games that are no fun throwed in your face, what's the point? Is that what makes you choose an OS, what software they put on the CD? Ehh... ok then...
FYI DOpus 4 isn't even for everyone like you might have noticed just to take one example so why force it on you?
Oh I got a 3.4GHz PC and an 800MHz amigaone and I don't know what issues your friend had or what version of AOS 4 he ran but I would go as far as calling you a liar. Offcourse apps like OWB and MPlayer are faster, they demand more CPU power, as simple as that but the fastest computer in the world doesn't mean that I will be the happiest user in the world if the OS isn't any good, as simple as that.
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Basically this: if I want something that will run on my A3000/040, OS4 isn't it. If I want an Amiga-like operating system that will run on PPC hardware that can be had cheaper than an Amiga PPC accelerator, OS4 isn't that, either. To run it, I'd need either a PPC accelerator (one of the most ridiculously expensive things you can buy for your Amiga,) or an OS4-supported custom PPC board (one of the other most ridiculously expensive things you can buy for your Amiga.)
And even if I already had those, there are a nice variety of OS options that don't involve shelling out a couple hundred bucks to one of the assorted shysters currently exploiting the Amiga name.
One thing that I really wonder about when I read that PPC hardware are so expensive is, what did your Amiga cost when you bought it? Did you get it for free from mom or dad? My a4k wasn't cheap when I bought it, damn expensive actually but it was SO worth it. Then you can imagaging what it has cost to change CPU cards up to the CSPPC which is probably the most expensive hardware that I've ever bought for it. Elbox tower with PCI-slots (the second tower that I bought), FastATA-III, GoldenGate, Voodoo 3, Voodoo 4, SB 128, CD-burner, RAM and so on. Let me tell you that my amigaone are A LOT cheaper compared to that and it runs much better too.
What I don't buy regarding the "it is two expensive" is when the same people upgrades their PC every 6 month, buy an iPhone, flatscreen TV etc etc etc.
If you are a die hard amiga fan but want... I don't know what... too expensive, I don't believe in that as a reason. I can do anything in AOS 4 that I could do in AOS 3, only better so why not? And regarding speed it's faster than any classic machine too anyway.
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well, I run both OS3.9 and OS4 but I have to admit I dont like 4.0 much.. I intend to buy 4.1 some day to give it another try. OS3.9 is just so much more fun to tweak and play around with. Its much more responsive and compatible with legacy software. Also, I love my hardware setup, quite hard to setup initially but once you get it going its a great machine that really is the most Amiga-like, Amiga-compatible machine you can get. I can even turn off the blizzppc by holding down '2' and I will have a standard a1200 again, able to run even more old software. But in the end I guess we all have our own reason to like or dislike OS3.9 / OS4.x.
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One thing that I really wonder about when I read that PPC hardware are so expensive is, what did your Amiga cost when you bought it? Did you get it for free from mom or dad? My a4k wasn't cheap when I bought it, damn expensive actually but it was SO worth it. Then you can imagaging what it has cost to change CPU cards up to the CSPPC which is probably the most expensive hardware that I've ever bought for it. Elbox tower with PCI-slots (the second tower that I bought), FastATA-III, GoldenGate, Voodoo 3, Voodoo 4, SB 128, CD-burner, RAM and so on. Let me tell you that my amigaone are A LOT cheaper compared to that and it runs much better too.
What I don't buy regarding the "it is two expensive" is when the same people upgrades their PC every 6 month, buy an iPhone, flatscreen TV etc etc etc.
If you are a die hard amiga fan but want... I don't know what... too expensive, I don't believe in that as a reason. I can do anything in AOS 4 that I could do in AOS 3, only better so why not? And regarding speed it's faster than any classic machine too anyway.
That arguement doesn't really work because the Amiga was up to date back then. It was in par with or superior back then. People are saying it's expensive now because we don't want to spend $800-$1000 for a motherboard that is 10 years out of date technology wise.
People spend a lot on classic stuff because of the nostalgia of it.
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The issue for people my age is that I don't have time anymore for hobby/fun computer use. I bought my first Amiga when I was in my teens now and in my forty's. Priorities have changed for me and I bet many original classic users.
I too am in my forties (46 and half to be exact) but I can't quite fathom where your priority's have changed for the worse just because you're forty something... :confused:
Guess you haven't got the hang of the "age" thing yet... ;)
By the time you hit your 40's you should have learned enough about life by now to realise that you've got more time than you ever had before for doing the things you enjoy and not the other way round as you seem to be saying... :)
You must be doing it wrong (living I mean), by now you should be at the stage where you can sit around in your Y-fronts and the jumper or T-Shirt full of holes (cos it's the comfiest) and not giving a crap about what anyone says or thinks... :)
Gawd sake man... the old wooden overcoat ain't that far off for the likes of you and me, so make the time, enjoy yourself, enjoy life before it's game over and leave all the worrying behind and priorities behind you... :)
At the end of the day when your six foot under you won't be worrying about bill's, mortgage repayments or prioritising things etc... leave that to kids to sort out when they fight over their inheritance... (or better still blow it all on simply enjoying yourself and let the brats earn their own money and learn about life the hard way, like I and most likely yourself had to do)... :D
Honestly, try it, for me life's never been so much fun.... :)
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One thing that I really wonder about when I read that PPC hardware are so expensive is, what did your Amiga cost when you bought it?
Basically spihunter got it right: that's pretty much irrelevant, as you're comparing the cost of prime computer hardware from the '80s-early '90s to middling computer hardware today. The relevant comparison for an attempt at a semi-modern system is other semi-modern systems, where custom "Amiga" PPC boards clearly don't compare, price-for-performance.
(That said, if you still want to draw that comparison: my A3000 cost me a couple hundred bucks with an 040 accelerator and NIC, plus another hundred for the RTG card. If I wanted to upgrade to a PPC-accelerated system, I'd have to shell out likely twice the total cost of the system for a Cyberstorm - or I could pay even more for a SAM board. Yes, my A3000 is far less powerful - but it's also far cheaper.)
That said, while I myself am not interested in OS4/MorphOS, I'm not in the "PPC is a dead platform and impossibly expensive" camp - there's perfectly workable PPC hardware that can be had affordably, it's just that it's PPC Macs, not Amiga accelerators or any of the existing custom boards. You can pay $100-200 and get a Power Mac G5 setup or a Mac Mini that will fly with Amiga PPC software, and will be significantly more cheap to expand if you want more capability. Problem for OS4 users is, OS4 doesn't run on Macs.
What I don't buy regarding the "it is two expensive" is when the same people upgrades their PC every 6 month, buy an iPhone, flatscreen TV etc etc etc.
I don't. I've been using my current laptop since early 2009 and will probably continue to use it for another year or so. My desktop is a Pentium 4 system I rescued from the recycle center. And I don't shell out for expensive TVs or smartphones. And I still say $1,000 for a 1GHz SAM with one freaking PCI slot is ridiculous.
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If you are a die hard amiga fan but want... I don't know what... too expensive, I don't believe in that as a reason. I can do anything in AOS 4 that I could do in AOS 3, only better so why not? And regarding speed it's faster than any classic machine too anyway.
Let's see you try to bang the hardware and expect it to work. What? There is no custom hardware there to bang? Too bad. You can't do that on OS 4. Maybe the Gallium drivers will allow that but AROS already lets you do that for free on nVidia GeForce graphics cards.
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That arguement doesn't really work because the Amiga was up to date back then. It was in par with or superior back then. People are saying it's expensive now because we don't want to spend $800-$1000 for a motherboard that is 10 years out of date technology wise.
People spend a lot on classic stuff because of the nostalgia of it.
That is kind of true I guess but it couldn't keep up for more than 5 years at most and even when it was brand new it was a lot more expensive than a PC. So the point is that the situation hasn't changed that much compared to then and a new motherboard, even the slowest one will be NEW and not old and because of it more stable. Also you get a new amiga experience that the old amigas can't give you in the same way.
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even the slowest one will be NEW and not old and because of it more stable. Also you get a new amiga experience that the old amigas can't give you in the same way.
So, the "trophy wife" approach, then?
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So, the "trophy wife" approach, then?
I just feal that people miss out on something really good. I could never get back to the "old wife" now other than for nostalgic reasons like playing an old game or two. But that works really well too with runinuae.
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a new motherboard, even the slowest one will be NEW and not old and because of it more stable
New doesn't necessarily mean stable. New HW typically has trouble with drivers: Either they're missing (coming real soon now!) or are buggy. New HW can easily have small bugs in the firmware or the HW itself that only get ironed out in the later board revisions.
I'd never go for the latest HW myself, I always wait for it to mature a bit.
Now in this special case of PowerPC amigoid systems: The best bang/buck is used Apple HW. You even get great support for it still (spare parts, repairs etc). Far better than you can ever expect to get for your "new" sub-1000 production run Sam.
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I just feal that people miss out on something really good.
If you're talking about Sam, they're not. Poor performance and overpriced.
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If you're talking about Sam, they're not. Poor performance and overpriced.
Better performance than any classic machine and the price is what you would expect.
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Better performance than any classic machine
Except WinUAE.
the price is what you would expect.
Umm, let me get this straight: People should expect to pay excessive amounts of money for inferior HW? Is that what "amiga experience" is about?
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Except WinUAE.
No, 'cos UAE is no classic machine.
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Better performance than any classic machine and the price is what you would expect.
Better performance than a 50Mhz machine... wow! amazing! wonderful! let's bring more popcorn! We would seriously have a problem if performance/price ratio wasn't much better than 7 years ago... what? did I hear you say Pegasos2-G4/1Ghz for 500€? nahhh I'm sure our wonderful 2011 brand new boing ball hardware is way faster and cheaper than that 7 year old hardware released in small batches :-P
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Umm, let me get this straight: People should expect to pay excessive amounts of money for inferior HW? Is that what "amiga experience" is about?
Let's see...AmigaOne, SAM, X1000, CUSA...yep, pretty much. (Well, I hear tell of some Amigas in the distant past that were groundbreaking, powerful, and affordably priced, but clearly that's just crazy talk.)
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Except WinUAE.
Umm, let me get this straight: People should expect to pay excessive amounts of money for inferior HW? Is that what "amiga experience" is about?
The "amiga experience" comes from the software you use, don't try to tell me that a mac or pc are any more speciall than the hardware available for aos 4, it's all standard components.
The question was why user hasn't moved on to the newer AOS. Some says price, some says performance and so on. The question is if it's better to use WinUAE or classic hardware? To me it isn't but hey, use whatever you want.
If you think that MOS are doing any better because you can buy second hand hardware to run it on (and G4 macs aren't exactly top modern either) then you better think again.
Let me put it this way. Everbody wants to have kick ass machines that are fast and cheap. The problem is that IT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. Or sure, it might happen one day but... sure... wait untill your at the age 80 to enjoy it.
What's the plan from the MOS developers? To port it over to x86 hardware and meanwhile port it to macs? Otherwise I don't know what you're doing.
One can assume that if PPC hardware fails completely AOS 4 will get ported over to x86, it's allready been mention by, I think it was H-J Frieden. But really, why not enjoy what's available now? It's not like it's useless and you can't do anything on it. Fast hardware are required for Windows 7 and MacOS X, it isn't necessary for AmigaOS 4 to feal good to use. I accidently downclocked my CPU to 533MHz and didn't even notice it! It was still as fast as ever... untill I ran Quake. You can still have lots of fun AND you won't get ruined.
However, to be honest, I won't settle with anything less than the X1000 for my next amiga but my amigaone has served me well and been lots of fun during these years. Back then watching HD movies wasn't an option or very common and as usual in amiga-land you can do it in other ways (playstation 3, blue-ray player, pc, mac, cellphone etc) so it doesn't even matter much, that's how it's been since forever. I would say ever since commodore went out of business. The PPC card helped but not all that much, it wasn't a new amiga.
If you *really* wants to hack away at chipset machines that's fine, I can understand that the interest in AOS 4 isn't enough, it is about the hardware apparently but if you enjoy using AmigaOS (I guess that's what people do that use amigas, or have I missed something?) then I don't quite understand why they don't try something new and better. The improvements are so worth it. It's kind of nice to be able to use a SATA harddisk for example... with DMA... not like FastATA. They are cheap but people still buy SCSI harddisks. No issue about spending money there. You get faster RAM that are also cheaper. 2GB, good luck with that on a classic Amiga.
The harddisk controller alone are worth it if your stuck with the internal IDE controller, I couldn't stand it even with AOS 3.9 on my a4k. And even if FastATA is nice for what it's it's crap compared to a modern controller.
Macs gives you that but for how long?
No sorry, I still don't get it. I can tell you that I enjoy using AOS 4.1 more than my PC and even more so with every update that are released and I enjoy it more than I've ever enjoyed AOS 3.x. It is the same but better.
Anyway, I've gotten answers to my question and that's all that I asked for so I'm pretty much done with my thread, I just don't agree with all the answers while some are valid.
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I have used AOS4.x a little bit on the "classics" and could tell you that (forget about price and all those issues) the good news is that they did a remarkable job of making an 3.9 + Visual Prefs, Birdie2000 and MUI type of system work a whole lot easier, stable and quick, even on these old PPC machines.
The bad news is they did a remarkable job of making an 3.9 + Visual Prefs, Birdie2000 and MUI type of system work a whole lot easier, stable and quick, even on these old PPC machines.
Meaning, they would not break ranks and move on to offer something very new and different. And that is partly all our fault, sending the wrong messages that it should be a very 68K AOS but just faster and with more Aminet junk added on.
So, to me, they did a good job giving you what you asked for, as a 'community' voice / consensus.
I will never really go for the rabble of "NG Amiga" banter. They are lost. Amiga 68K however is finally picking up steam like the C64 scene and I'm reading about Assembly language! That crap is hard...
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I would happily use AmigaOS4.1 on a Sam or X1000 alongside my classic Amigas running OS3, PCs running Aros and Efika running MorphOS, but I just can't afford it at all because I have no income. All my current hardware was pretty much given to me or found at a very good price, second hand. MorphOS users and developers were so appreciative of my interest to use and develop for MorphOS that I was given the Efika to use.
So I expect to be an AmigaOS4 user at some point, after I have come up with a way to start earning money online so I can stay at home and continue to learn how to develop Amiga software.
There are also things that OS4 does better than any other OS which I'm really looking forward to. It handles screen dragging better than OS3 and Aros (and MorphOS misses out on it completely), you can drag and drop files between screens in OS4! There are probably other good things about it too!
I don't see a problem with running multiple computers and OSs if you have enough room, which I guess I do. Variety is the spice of life they say, and OS4 would add some extra flavour if only I could afford to get it.
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If you think that MOS are doing any better because you can buy second hand hardware to run it on (and G4 macs aren't exactly top modern either) then you better think again.
What? That's absolutely the case. You can quite cheaply acquire Mac hardware that competes with basically any PPC Amigoid board except maybe the X1000, and stomps all of them into oblivion where price/performance is concerned. It's not even like there's a shortage - there's still tons of the things popping up on eBay and second-hand retail sites. G4/G5 Macs might not be all that great compared to new PC hardware, but if you want PPC hardware, you can hardly do any better (at least now that the PS3's OtherOS option is gone.)
What's the plan from the MOS developers? To port it over to x86 hardware and meanwhile port it to macs? Otherwise I don't know what you're doing.
One can assume that if PPC hardware fails completely AOS 4 will get ported over to x86, it's allready been mention by, I think it was H-J Frieden. But really, why not enjoy what's available now?
This is true, but it hardly helps your point - OS4 is just as tied to the PPC architecture as MOS, but is confined to an even narrower range of hardware. If you really think PPC is a dead end, why the hell would you pay that kind of money for a machine you think is going to be useless in the near future?
Macs gives you that but for how long?
Case in point. Yes, PPC Macs are going to be dead and gone eventually - but so are the OS4 specialty boards.
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What? That's absolutely the case. You can quite cheaply acquire Mac hardware that competes with basically any PPC Amigoid board except maybe the X1000, and stomps all of them into oblivion where price/performance is concerned. It's not even like there's a shortage - there's still tons of the things popping up on eBay and second-hand retail sites. G4/G5 Macs might not be all that great compared to new PC hardware, but if you want PPC hardware, you can hardly do any better (at least now that the PS3's OtherOS option is gone.)
Oh please... I got 256 MB VRAM on my ancient Radeon 9250 and the best macmini got 64 MB VRAM. The old macs are not all bad but they are just that, old. I as a user want to be able to have an option to buy something new if I'd like to. My powermac is very nice and all but... come on... this is a sad future I would say. "So what do you run AmigaOS on?", "Well I got this old mac that I bought from ebay", "But you can buy it new like if I'd like to get one?", "no, but check ebay, you can get cheap used macs there"... does it sound good to you?
This is true, but it hardly helps your point - OS4 is just as tied to the PPC architecture as MOS, but is confined to an even narrower range of hardware. If you really think PPC is a dead end, why the hell would you pay that kind of money for a machine you think is going to be useless in the near future?
The thing is that my amigaone hasn't been useless and still isn't. I can't help what you're thinking but maybe your thinking is the whole issue? Regarding tied to, the one of the Friedens wrote that it would take them about two weeks to do the inital port to x86 hardware and I don't remember how many months for it to be usable. Now they don't make false statements, at least none that I've read during all those years so I believe it's true. I paid that kind of money because my a4k was coming to an end and I wanted to continue using AOS. Guess what, I haven't regreted that for a second. Maybe if you had something to run it on you would know?
Case in point. Yes, PPC Macs are going to be dead and gone eventually - but so are the OS4 specialty boards.
True, I haven't said anything else. You and I will be dead and gone eventually too so I don't really know what your point is. I've made my point above, read it.
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I have used AOS4.x a little bit on the "classics" and could tell you that (forget about price and all those issues) the good news is that they did a remarkable job of making an 3.9 + Visual Prefs, Birdie2000 and MUI type of system work a whole lot easier, stable and quick, even on these old PPC machines.
The bad news is they did a remarkable job of making an 3.9 + Visual Prefs, Birdie2000 and MUI type of system work a whole lot easier, stable and quick, even on these old PPC machines.
Meaning, they would not break ranks and move on to offer something very new and different. And that is partly all our fault, sending the wrong messages that it should be a very 68K AOS but just faster and with more Aminet junk added on.
So, to me, they did a good job giving you what you asked for, as a 'community' voice / consensus.
I will never really go for the rabble of "NG Amiga" banter. They are lost. Amiga 68K however is finally picking up steam like the C64 scene and I'm reading about Assembly language! That crap is hard...
One thing here is that you can get rid of the hacks and they will be implemented to the system in a clean way. Also you can now drag windows outside the screen, change the side from any direction and other little things that are nice to have. Screendraging are back and so on, and that is just 4.0. I know that there's a hack for draging windows outside the screenborders for 3.x but AFAICR I never had much luck getting it to work. There are tons of other improvements than those that you listed.
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The thing is that my amigaone hasn't been useless and still isn't. I can't help what you're thinking but maybe your thinking is the whole issue? Regarding tied to, the one of the Friedens wrote that it would take them about two weeks to do the inital port to x86 hardware and I don't remember how many months for it to be usable. Now they don't make false statements, at least none that I've read during all those years so I believe it's true. I paid that kind of money because my a4k was coming to an end and I wanted to continue using AOS. Guess what, I haven't regreted that for a second. Maybe if you had something to run it on you would know?
Maybe I would, but as an accelerator for my 3000 will set me back a half-grand easy, and a dedicated board will be quite a bit more than that, I'm not that motivated to find out. Maybe at some point when I've nabbed a cheap PPC Mac I'll give MorphOS a try, instead.
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Maybe at some point when I've nabbed a cheap PPC Mac I'll give MorphOS a try, instead.
Been there, done that. It's ok but nothing to write home about. It's a small, fast OS that's stuck on PPC. If you're in the market for a Mac, don't settle for a bad one if you can afford to buy one that's over 1 GHz. I have a 500 MHz PowerMac G4 and still don't have the money to buy a Radeon card nor a compatible network adapter. I'll be impressed if they ever get shader support for the Radeon graphics cards.
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One thing here is that you can get rid of the hacks and they will be implemented to the system in a clean way. Also you can now drag windows outside the screen, change the side from any direction and other little things that are nice to have. Screendraging are back and so on, and that is just 4.0. I know that there's a hack for draging windows outside the screenborders for 3.x but AFAICR I never had much luck getting it to work. There are tons of other improvements than those that you listed.
IExec->AllocVec(bufsize);vs.
AllocVec(bufsize);and that is getting rid of the hacks in a clean way?
I realize that having the interfaces load into different registers based on what other libraries they call is faster but couldn't they have just used a custom calling convention for library calls? Sheesh!
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One thing here is that you can get rid of the hacks and they will be implemented to the system in a clean way. Also you can now drag windows outside the screen, change the side from any direction and other little things that are nice to have. Screendraging are back and so on, and that is just 4.0. I know that there's a hack for draging windows outside the screenborders for 3.x but AFAICR I never had much luck getting it to work. There are tons of other improvements than those that you listed.
Yes there are, I didn't use it enough to give more justice. The 1 click themeing in AOS4.1 is very cool; unpack, hit the icon and boom you Workbench is Transformed. I also liked how the AOS Title bar was customizable. I could pick out almost any kind of memory info my heart desired. I liked that for the 1st time I could see how much memory was left in the B-vision graphics card. At 800x600 16bit, I had 4 MB free. I could get more back with some tuning I'm sure. I think a lot of people here would love to migrate to it, just can't afford the hardware choices....
Just make a version for Mac mini and I'm back! Do it Hyperion.
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Just make a version for Mac mini and I'm back! Do it Hyperion.
NO - the X1000 is teh future of OS4!
lol
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In answering the original question os4.x doesnt run much of my old favorite software without the use of UAE (and then too slowly as I like to use custom chipset stuff other than basic ocs/ecs floppy based games) and the things it gives me that are different to classic machines can be obtained elsewhere for much cheaper in MOS and AROS. It's not that Im against OS4.x, Im just not willing to pay that sort of money for a similar experience on slower hardware. Love my "amiga" hobby, but I have no loyalty to a trademark name.
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Had OS4.1 on an AmigaOne for a few months, it was a cute toy. Won't do it again, though.
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Macs gives you that but for how long?
Likely much longer than Sam/X1000 will.
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Better performance than a 50Mhz machine... wow! amazing! wonderful! let's bring more popcorn! We would seriously have a problem if performance/price ratio wasn't much better than 7 years ago... what? did I hear you say Pegasos2-G4/1Ghz for 500€? nahhh I'm sure our wonderful 2011 brand new boing ball hardware is way faster and cheaper than that 7 year old hardware released in small batches :-P
I think the overuse of PC hardware damaged some of your perception. The CPU is not the only performing part of the computer. While the Pegasos have similar to the Sam 460 processor (1 GHz), the Sam 460 have better memory controller, PCI express slots, SATA2, better Ethernet and other components that are better performing than on Pegasos. The Pegasos was a nice machine 7 years ago, but the Sam 460 beats it. The Sam 460 is smaller as well. Sorry, but I would prefer to have Sam 460 for little extra (brand new) instead of old Pegasos machine.
The WinUAE advocates probably enjoy having classic software at fast speeds as long as they don't need to use the operating system. Because even highly tuned AmigaOS 3.9 installation I found to be very obsolete compared to what I got used to on AmigaOS 4. But then again most of the AmigaOS 4 components that I take for granted now, and got used to them are lacking in AmigaOS 3.9.
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Likely much longer than Sam/X1000 will.
Someone manufactures PPC Mac clones? Probably Dave Haynie still have his Mac clone schematics so he will bring them on the market. Until this happens, the new Amiga hardware is getting developed all the time (including the Natami).
For the record - because I have cheap Sega Mega Drive clone I wanted to have an original Sega. To my surprise the Sega Mega Drive (original kinda) is still produced in China and the seller had his logo on the case. Probably some Chinese manufacturer will start producing Mac clones at some stage in the future, that will be compatible with MorphOS.
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Probably some Chinese manufacturer will start producing Mac clones at some stage in the future, that will be compatible with MorphOS.
Probably at some point China will be forced to abide by copyright :lol:
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I'd like to know why people using AOS 3 doesn't jump on the AOS 4 train? What is holding you back exactly?
1. Not compatible
2. High cost of the hardware
3. Whoever designed the A1 and Sam forgot to include an enhanced Paula. Or even a plain old 1985 Paula.
4. Whoever designed the A1 and Sam forgot to include an enhanced copper. Or even a plain old 1985 copper.
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1. Not compatible
More than 80% of the 68K applications I tried on my AmigaOne worked without any glitch. 10% worked with some tricks, and the rest 10% did not work at all and were forced to run under E-UAE. That's good enough for me.
Do you know that many of the 1.3 software is not compatible with KS 2.0+?
Do you multitask on your classic Amiga while playing WHDLoad games?
Well, on my AmigaOne with AmigaOS 4 I can multitask with WHDLoad games and run 1.3 applications as well.
In fact I can set 1.3 applications to be practically transparent to the OS - they write their files on my AmigaOS 4 partition.
2. High cost of the hardware
What's the price of 68060 board nowadays?
3. Whoever designed the A1 and Sam forgot to include an enhanced Paula. Or even a plain old 1985 Paula.
Nalle Puh (http://os4depot.net/index.php?function=showfile&file=audio/misc/nallepuh.lha) can do the work in software (cheaper).
4. Whoever designed the A1 and Sam forgot to include an enhanced copper. Or even a plain old 1985 copper.
Something like Blitzen (http://os4depot.net/index.php?function=showfile&file=emulation/misc/blitzen.lha) for copper?
5. Whoever designed the Amiga forgot to include an enchanced SID to replay C64 songs.
Wait, SIDs tunes are replayed nice with DeliTracker and EaglePlayer on classic Amiga machine in software, without the extra cost of SID chip.
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Someone manufactures PPC Mac clones? Probably Dave Haynie still have his Mac clone schematics so he will bring them on the market. Until this happens, the new Amiga hardware is getting developed all the time (including the Natami).
You do realize the Mac is entirely a software system, right? That's the whole reason they've managed two architecture changes and one massive ROM alteration so effortlessly, and the whole reason ShapeShifter works. Basically any PPC hardware could be made to run Mac OS 8-X with some modification, or more likely, another OS with a simple compatibility layer for Mac applications.
Probably at some point China will be forced to abide by copyright :lol:
Hah, not as long as we're so dependent on them for cheap manufactured goods, they won't :D
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You do realize the Mac is entirely a software system, right?
If this was true then MorphOS and AmigaOS would have been ported to PPC Macs overnight. The fact that it took so much time to the Morphosians to port their OS to Mac, either conflicts your theory or speaks about the capabilities of the MOS coders.
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If this was true then MorphOS and AmigaOS would have been ported to PPC Macs overnight. The fact that it took so much time to the Morphosians to port their OS to Mac, either conflicts your theory or speaks about the capabilities of the MOS coders.
I'm speaking of the Mac operating system. Mac applications have always been entirely dependent on defined system calls (aside from a few badly-behaved programs that wrote to the hardware in the early days,) therefore all that needs to happen for a computer on the same processor architecture is for that computer to respond to those system calls in the defined way, via an intermediary compatibility layer that translates them into suitable requests for the native OS.
Porting an existing OS to new hardware is an entirely different kettle of fish - you have to figure out how to interface with the hardware and whatever it has in the way of a BIOS (no small task, especially when the hardware in question is as proprietary and undocumented as Apple's - they don't even use standard form factors, for crying out loud.)
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No, 'cos UAE is no classic machine.
It actually is. These days WinUAE emulates ton of different kind of setups and does it really well. There really is no way to tell it apart from the real thing.
For example the audio output has improved tremendously as of late (due to support for the low latency interfaces).
BTW just gave the latest WinUAE with built-in AROS KS ROM replacement a go. As expected WB 1.3 doesn't quite work:
(http://sintonen.fi/pics/winuae-aros-ks-replacement-wb13.png)
WB 3.1 however did much better, giving me the "Workbook" desktop. It did quickly crash however:
(http://sintonen.fi/pics/winuae-aros-ks-replacement-wb31.png)
That being said it will mostly be used to launch bootable games and for that it's more than enough already. Really cool stuff.
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Someone manufactures PPC Mac clones?
No. But the support for the existing base of PPC Macs will easily surpass that of Sam or X1000. Simple example: From where can you get spare parts or repairs for AmigaONE SE/XE?
Probably Dave Haynie still have his Mac clone schematics so he will bring them on the market.
I doubt that very much.
Probably some Chinese manufacturer will start producing Mac clones at some stage in the future, that will be compatible with MorphOS.
Highly unlikely.
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Something like Blitzen (http://os4depot.net/index.php?function=showfile&file=emulation/misc/blitzen.lha) for copper?
Blitzen covers only the blitter functionality, IIRC. For the Copper emulation, you'd need shader support which may someday come from Gallium3D drivers. It's not there yet, drHirudo.
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If this was true then MorphOS and AmigaOS would have been ported to PPC Macs overnight.
MorphOS was ported to Mac mini G4 in a very short period of time (minimal port was done in 48 hours) and largely by a single individual. Writing the drivers and polishing things enough to warrant a release took a bit longer.
The fact that it took so much time to the Morphosians to port their OS to Mac ... speaks about the capabilities of the MOS coders.
I agree. At least I'd like to think we're doing a professional job by not releasing alpha stage OS to paying customers.
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Nalle Puh (http://os4depot.net/index.php?function=showfile&file=audio/misc/nallepuh.lha) can do the work in software (cheaper).
But does it actually work these days? The word is that it doesn't.
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. The Pegasos was a nice machine 7 years ago, but the Sam 460 beats it.
The SAM might run at similar clockspeed, but that is a core 2 generations older than the G4 lacking Altivec.
So in reality you bound to see many reallife benchmarks were that old Peg2 beats the crap out of the brand-new SAM and some more were the SAM is slightly faster.....
Until you throw a MacMini/PMac or PowerBook clocked at 1.5GHz or higher into the mix ....
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I'd like to know why people using AOS 3 doesn't jump on the AOS 4 train?
Since H&P's Aminet CDs sold like crazy I guess OS4 could have done better if it was ported to 68k.
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I agree. At least I'd like to think we're doing a professional job by not releasing alpha stage OS to paying customers.
Nice :D that seems reasonable!
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It is quite possible to write an OS to be processor neutral or at least easily portable to another architecture. That's what OS X has done. iOS is just a port of OS X to ARM. If the authors of OS4 were thinking ahead they would have done so with OS4. Sadly they weren't....
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It actually is. These days WinUAE emulates ton of different kind of setups and does it really well. There really is no way to tell it apart from the real thing.
I think a couple of things, like the WinUAE titlebar and the fact that you'd be most likely running it on a PC might just be a wee bit of a giveaway... :)
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@Piru when 1.3 panics during boot (on the AROS ROM), simply type Loadwb and the boot continues :)
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I think a couple of things, like the WinUAE titlebar and the fact that you'd be most likely running it on a PC might just be a wee bit of a giveaway... :)
You could tape an "Amiga" banner to the top of the monitor, but unfortunately CUSA has the patent on that ;)
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Better performance than a 50Mhz machine... wow! amazing! wonderful! let's bring more popcorn! We would seriously have a problem if performance/price ratio wasn't much better than 7 years ago... what? did I hear you say Pegasos2-G4/1Ghz for 500€? nahhh I'm sure our wonderful 2011 brand new boing ball hardware is way faster and cheaper than that 7 year old hardware released in small batches :-P
I was offcourse (but hey, I was expecting too much from you) talking about a CSPPC with AOS 4 on it. If that's what you're stuck it but it feels fast enough any of the SAMs, A1s or X1000 will be faster.
I can't believe that I have to explain this to you.
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Maybe I would, but as an accelerator for my 3000 will set me back a half-grand easy, and a dedicated board will be quite a bit more than that, I'm not that motivated to find out. Maybe at some point when I've nabbed a cheap PPC Mac I'll give MorphOS a try, instead.
Then I just have to ask, if you're not interested why do you bother writing so many replys to anything I say? This whole statement is redicioulus. You can't get a "dedicated" board but you can get a mac and... okeeeey... good point
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I agree. At least I'd like to think we're doing a professional job by not releasing alpha stage OS to paying customers.
As long as the paying customer (me) knows what he buys I don't see the issue. It was no secret what I would get. Just because you don't understand things or remember how they where doesn't give you the right to throw out comments that are wrong.
Oh, I think it was classified as beta.
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Then I just have to ask, if you're not interested why do you bother writing so many replys to anything I say?
commodorejohn will have to answer for himself, but I'm going to bet it has something to do with the questions you posed in your first post:
I'd like to know why people using AOS 3 doesn't jump on the AOS 4 train? What is holding you back exactly?
Look, the fact is most Amiga users don't consider OS4 to be Amiga. Amiga-like, sure, nobody is questioning that; IMO OS4 is just as Amiga-like as AROS or MorphOS. Surely you've seen the multitude of reasons why people don't want or like OS4 posted over the years. It's not as if people haven't heard about or even tried OS4, if they wanted to use it they'd be using it by now - it's been what, 7 years since it was "released"? The problem with OS4 is two-fold: Hyperion has pissed off a lot of people, and though OS4 is Amiga-like it's still not as good as a real Amiga and has shortcomings when compared to the alternatives.
OS4 has a long way to go towards acceptance. In fact it's been so long struggling with acceptance that it's very reasonable to believe that it will never be accepted beyond the microscopic sub-community which has accepted it since the mid double-Zs. If you're happy with OS4, then great! That's your own problem. The problem though isn't with the majority who don't feel it's as good as any of the alternatives.
I hope this helps the next time you're fiddling around with Workbench settings or playing with some Linux port and start feeling evangelical.
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commodorejohn will have to answer for himself, but I'm going to bet it has something to do with the questions you posed in your first post:
How many posts do someone need to answer that question? It's a simple question, not a test.
Look, the fact is most Amiga users don't consider OS4 to be Amiga. Amiga-like, sure, nobody is questioning that; IMO OS4 is just as Amiga-like as AROS or MorphOS. Surely you've seen the multitude of reasons why people don't want or like OS4 posted over the years. It's not as if people haven't heard about or even tried OS4, if they wanted to use it they'd be using it by now - it's been what, 7 years since it was "released"? The problem with OS4 is two-fold: Hyperion has pissed off a lot of people, and though OS4 is Amiga-like it's still not as good as a real Amiga and has shortcomings when compared to the alternatives.
I wanted replys to see if everybody was thinking the same thing or if there where different reasons and there was. So I would really like to know how you can speak for most Amiga users? I asked for answers from each person, I didn't ask you to answer for all of them.
OS4 has a long way to go towards acceptance. In fact it's been so long struggling with acceptance that it's very reasonable to believe that it will never be accepted beyond the microscopic sub-community which has accepted it since the mid double-Zs. If you're happy with OS4, then great! That's your own problem. The problem though isn't with the majority who don't feel it's as good as any of the alternatives.
And there you go, it's my "problem". Now why would it be a problem? I would guess that you're a MOS user by that nice attitude and another fine example of that user-base but I'm pretty sure that you got nothing to add that I don't already know, at least you haven't in this post. If you however wanted to try and sound as someone who are smarter than everyone else (or me) and wise enough to tell me something that I didn't know you have failed. Apparently you simply can't stand to read about AOS 4 and that's really your problem. I have know issue reading about an amiga wanna-be os runing on second hand hardware but I don't find that very interesting.
I hope this helps the next time you're fiddling around with Workbench settings or playing with some Linux port and start feeling evangelical.
Haha oh you ARE a MOS user. Yeah, always throwing that religous crap around for the last ten years. Good thinking, but haven't you gotten something new to come up with?
I understand that it must be tough to not have a machine to run AOS 4 on and that it hurts but try to get over it when you play around with Ambient or play with maconlinux adn start feeling evangelical.
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Then I just have to ask, if you're not interested why do you bother writing so many replys to anything I say? This whole statement is redicioulus. You can't get a "dedicated" board but you can get a mac and... okeeeey... good point
Uh...I'm replying because you asked WB3 users (i.e. me) why we didn't upgrade to OS4, and I was explaining, and yet it seems that you either can't understand or won't accept my explanation: OS4 is too freaking expensive. I'm not paying $600 for an accelerator or $1100 for a dedicated board plus $200 for a copy of the OS because that is way more money than I'm willing to pay for a retro OS - and if I want a modern OS, I can use Windows XP or Linux, both of which are far more capable and run on hardware that is massively cheaper.
And yes, I can get a Mac - because they're nowhere near as expensive. I can get a G5 Power Mac for $50-200 that will stomp any $500+ Amiga PPC accelerator or $1000 custom board flat where performance is concerned and be significantly more expandable. And maybe it won't run OS4, but it will run MorphOS, OSX, AROS, or Linux (hint: the last two there are free, which is about $150-200 less than OS4 costs.)
If I want oldschool Amiga goodness, I can have it affordably with a 68k machine and WB3.1. If I want PPC computing, for whatever reason, I can have it affordably with a Mac and a free OS. If I want cheap, powerful computing and don't care what platform it's on, I can get an x86 PC. OS4 does not offer improvements on any of those fronts significant enough to justify the amount of money it requires.
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Uh...I'm replying because you asked WB3 users (i.e. me) why we didn't upgrade to OS4, and I was explaining, and yet it seems that you either can't understand or won't accept my explanation: OS4 is too freaking expensive. I'm not paying $600 for an accelerator or $1100 for a dedicated board plus $200 for a copy of the OS because that is way more money than I'm willing to pay for a retro OS - and if I want a modern OS, I can use Windows XP or Linux, both of which are far more capable and run on hardware that is massively cheaper.
And yes, I can get a Mac - because they're nowhere near as expensive. I can get a G5 Power Mac for $50-200 that will stomp any $500+ Amiga PPC accelerator or $1000 custom board flat where performance is concerned and be significantly more expandable. And maybe it won't run OS4, but it will run MorphOS, OSX, AROS, or Linux (hint: the last two there are free, which is about $150-200 less than OS4 costs.)
If I want oldschool Amiga goodness, I can have it affordably with a 68k machine and WB3.1. If I want PPC computing, for whatever reason, I can have it affordably with a Mac and a free OS. If I want cheap, powerful computing and don't care what platform it's on, I can get an x86 PC. OS4 does not offer improvements on any of those fronts significant enough to justify the amount of money it requires.
Ok and the question was why you need so many replies for that simple question?
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Because it apparently took this many replies for you to grasp that.
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Because it apparently took this many replies for you to grasp that.
Yea, I think maybe 6-7 different people have said that in this thread. You have way more patience then me commodorejohn! :)
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Because it apparently took this many replies for you to grasp that.
Or rather that it took you ten attempts to write an answer? I didn't ask you ten times now I?
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Hello!
I'd like to know why people using AOS 3 doesn't jump on the AOS 4 train? What is holding you back exactly?
Well, to me OS4 is the least appealing alternative OS when coming from 68k.
It is the most expensive solution (AROS is for free, MorphOS total cost of a system is also way cheaper).
It is rather slow (loses most benchmaks) and many things are missing (usb 2, sound driver with Sam 460, scsi on classic).
The wannabe professional attitude from Hyperion et al. is annoying.
The look is pretty old fashioned, the shell not improved over 3.x.
There's no indocation that future upgrades will bring significant improvemts.
Lots of broken promises, FUD and lies with fanatsy hardware and features as well as the two more weeks stuff
Most capable developers are elsewhere.
No good web browser.
My appealing list: MorphOS, AROS, FPGA stuff, UAE, OS4.
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It's AOS4 that's holding me back from using AOS4... ;)
Reason being after having bought OS4.0 to run on my BlizzardPPC 240Mhz it was slower than a dead donkey with arthritis and three of it's legs missing... :(
Believe me it does hurt... especially your wallet... just remember you need a PPC board and GFX card for OS4.X to be of any use and the vast majority of Amiga users don't own these things... ;)
Hi,
@Franko,
Heck I will go one better, OS 4.1 is slower then a dead snail with it's slime missing. It multi-tasks like a 1987 MAC, and is actually worse than Windows 3.1, and you are right, you need a PPC board (which I have) and a graphics card (still looking) so if anyone has a bvision graphics card out there that they want to get rid of like super cheap, let me know.
smerf
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My appealing list: MorphOS, AROS, FPGA stuff, UAE, OS4.
Close to my own order.
MorphOS, FPGA stuff, UAE, AROS, OS4
And OS4 has the same browser MOS does (thanks to Fab).
But this whole thread just re-hashes our own personal preferences/prejudices again.
Can't we come up with something more original?
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Or rather that it took you ten attempts to write an answer? I didn't ask you ten times now I?
No, but you did give me ten replies each indicating that you either misunderstood or just plain ignored half my points - therefore, I attempted to restate them, and apparently it took ten successive refinements of my argument before you couldn't not understand what I was saying...
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...before you couldn't not understand what I was saying...
Ha! +1
I don't want to spend that much for that little either.
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And OS4 has the same browser MOS does (thanks to Fab).
Firefox?
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Firefox?
Hmm can't be that: Perhaps you mean this linux^H^H^H^H^Hamiga app called timberwolf (http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=33768&forum=32)?
What's up with this "dll hell" anyway? Doesn't sound very "amiga" to me.
This is just wrong. This is not amiga. I'll take OS and apps that use proper amiga libraries and not some kind of half-as*ed shared object implementation borrowed from linux (on OS4 they aren't even shared, each opener gets their own copy.. fail!). It just can't work without package manager with proper dependency system. This will end badly: "Its just a case of duplicating the listed sobjs in the sobjs drawer and renaming them to match. Once you have done this try again." or "Just make a duplicate copy of it and rename the duplicate to the above and repeat with the other files which are missing.".
Proper shared libraries with per-opener static data are well possible as is proven by numerous such libraries existing in for example in amigaos 3.x and MorphOS. Why AmigaOS4 "designers" chose this lazy route with non-shared shared objects is beyond me.
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Hi,
@Franko,
Heck I will go one better, OS 4.1 is slower then a dead snail with it's slime missing. It multi-tasks like a 1987 MAC, and is actually worse than Windows 3.1, and you are right, you need a PPC board (which I have) and a graphics card (still looking) so if anyone has a bvision graphics card out there that they want to get rid of like super cheap, let me know.
smerf
Hi Smerf... :)
Wow... dead snails with their slime missing are as rare as a three legged tortoise nailed to a skateboard with a rocket up it ass... :)
Which is equally as rare as a bloody Bvision Gfx card and I baggsed it first so got to the back of the que ... ;)
Cheers
oknarF
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Some people want the real Amiga so they can run real Amiga software on real Amiga hardware. OS4 doesn't bring any of that to the table.
I hope some developers make a new m68k microprocessor. I still like single-core CISC. :hammer:
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I hope some developers make a new m68k microprocessor. I still like single-core CISC. :hammer:
Me too :) 68k might not be up to modern standards these days, but it's still a lot of fun to code for.
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Firefox?
Timberwolf. Not yet.
OWB
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@HotRod
I'd like to know why people using AOS 3 doesn't jump on the AOS 4 train? What is holding you back exactly?
I made the jump to AOS4 at the end of 2004.
We purchased our Commodore Amiga 2000HD in about 1989-1990 with AmigaOS 1.3. Later upgraded to AmigaOS 3.1. It did not have an accelerator card, so our system ran on the 68000 CPU. Our AOS 3.1 Workbench was fairly simple with a nice background picture and no extra eye candy. All the programs had to work with the 68000 CPU. I was using AWeb and AmiTCP/IP for internet over a dial-up modem at 19.2Kbps.
I have never owned an A3000 or A4000 or A1200.
My wife and I had the A2000HD and some X86 PC's. My wife and son were no longer interested in Amiga stuff. They used Microsoft Windows. I was using the old A2000HD and running QNX on one of the X86 PC's. I became interested in MorphOS and OS4, but I could not afford to purchase two complete systems.
At the end of 2004, I purchased my MicroAmigaOne (MicroA1-C) with AmigaOS 4.0 Developer Pre-release. Since then I have gone through many updates and currently run AmigaOS 4.1 Update 2.
---
redfox
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Hmm can't be that: Perhaps you mean this linux^H^H^H^H^Hamiga app called timberwolf (http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=33768&forum=32)?
What's up with this "dll hell" anyway? Doesn't sound very "amiga" to me.
This is just wrong. This is not amiga. I'll take OS and apps that use proper amiga libraries and not some kind of half-as*ed shared object implementation borrowed from linux (on OS4 they aren't even shared, each opener gets their own copy.. fail!). It just can't work without package manager with proper dependency system. This will end badly: "Its just a case of duplicating the listed sobjs in the sobjs drawer and renaming them to match. Once you have done this try again." or "Just make a duplicate copy of it and rename the duplicate to the above and repeat with the other files which are missing.".
Proper shared libraries with per-opener static data are well possible as is proven by numerous such libraries existing in for example in amigaos 3.x and MorphOS. Why AmigaOS4 "designers" chose this lazy route with non-shared shared objects is beyond me.
I would prefer some Linux port working straight on my AmigaOS than having to reboot into Linux or MacOS X just to be able to use Firefox extension that is lacking an AmigaOS equivalent. But may be this is just me, because the MorphOS people would prefer to have MacOS handy when they need to. If I need to change the OS I would prefer Windows over MacOS anytime, because Windows software is much more compatible with itself and there is much more Windows software available (for free or paid) than for MacOS. Many of the Windows apps I had to use are Linux ports (Cygwin or native), but as long as they work, nobody cares from where they come. Hey, thanks to Linux I was able to port some of my games to Windows and MacOS with simple recompile (they are coded on Amiga), so I have nothing against Linux at the moment.
Nice that you are linking thread to a person who is enjoying his Sam460.
May be I shall create a thread with my MorphOS experience on PowerBook ---> Total FAIL, but I have OS X so I did not miss anything.
BTW Firefox works on my machine - AmigaOS 4 Update 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvUc7hXUAX8)
AmigaOS 4 does not run on Mac machines - but the latest version runs on classic Amiga machines, so the developers wouldn't need to recompile their apps for old machines and new machines (MorphOS 1.x something vs MorphOS 2.x something). On the other hand my Mac games work fine on MacOS X Tiger, but refuse to work on MacOS Snow Leopard (scratches head, go figure), while the Windows compiles does not have any problems with the different Windows versions even if I did not used official Windows devkit, like I did on the Mac.
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BTW Firefox works on my machine - AmigaOS 4 Update 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvUc7hXUAX8)
No, it doesn't. Timberwolf does.
And right now most OS4 users are using a version of OWB ported from MorphOS.
I think most developers (like Piru) object to ports that rely on the use of packages like Cygwin or sloppy recoding for Windows dll dependencies.
May be I shall create a thread with my MorphOS experience on PowerBook ---> Total FAIL, but I have OS X so I did not miss anything.
That would be silly. MorphOS doesn't run on Powerbooks (yet).
You were foolish enough to try?
Nice that you are linking thread to a person who is enjoying his Sam460.
Why? Do you think WE have some prejudice?
I like hearing about developments in the second best PPC OS for amiga users.
I
AmigaOS 4 does not run on Mac machines - but the latest version runs on classic Amiga machines, so the developers wouldn't need to recompile their apps for old machines and new machines
AmigaOS 4 does not run on Mac machines - except for that version that leaked out for the Mac Mini
the latest version runs on classic Amiga machines - no, it runs on machines expanded with third party PPC accelerators
so the developers wouldn't need to recompile their apps for old machines and new machines - Both OS4 and MorphOS will run some legacy apps without recompilation, but far from all of them. And if you're running on a legacy Amiga (with a third party PPC accelerator) you're going to need to reboot to OS3.X to run the rest.
Why are OS4 users so defensive?
Is it because most OS3.X users don't want the product?
Or that when OS3.X users examine PPC OS', they frequently choose MorphOS (over OS4)?
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No, it doesn't. Timberwolf does.
And right now most OS4 users are using a version of OWB ported from MorphOS.
I don't. Actually the OWB first came to Amiga, then the Morphosians (one of them I believe) developed it and later it was ported to AmigaOS based on the MorphOS port. OWB is MorphOS app, since when? OWB is non Amiga app that MOSes are proud of, yes/no? Why they are not proud about the Voyager browser, that was developed by some MorphOS developer?
I think most developers (like Piru) object to ports that rely on the use of packages like Cygwin or sloppy recoding for Windows dll dependencies.
Better have such port, than having to reboot into another OS. You don't need to install these ports if you don't want to. But you can Install them and work with AmigaOS 4. On the AROS and MOS you can not, simply because they don't exist. You mention the fellow who opened threads here about his triple, quadriple or whateveriple booting Mac machine. That's the Amiga way of doing things, right - you need some app, you reboot into another OS and then use it. Later you don't need this app - reboot again in Linux, then MorphOS, MacOS. Just like the 2.0 times when we softkicked 1.3 to be able to play the old games. This is sooooo 1990-ies. Good that Amiga had WHDLoad and JST so the constant reboots where avoided at least for games. For AROS, AmigaOS 3.x and MOS users seems the reboots are still necessary. On AmigaOS 4 there is glUAE. On my AmigaOne I have installed only AmigaOS 4, I don't need to quadriple boot.
That would be silly. MorphOS doesn't run on Powerbooks (yet).
You were foolish enough to try?
It was demonstrated on shows, so I decided to give it a try. It was announced back in 2009. Sneak preview on Amiga.org (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=50075)
(almost 2 years ago). Fast development?
Why? Do you think WE have some prejudice?
I like hearing about developments in the second best PPC OS for amiga users.
May be because in every thread about AmigaOS 4, the MorphOS is brought, while it is totally irrelevant. MOS is even more limited than AmigaOS 4. Most of the users however did not had the chance to try both AmigaOS 4 and MOS on same hardware to judge by themselves.
AmigaOS 4 does not run on Mac machines - except for that version that leaked out for the Mac Mini
Broken version. Probably as much working as the MOS version for Powerbooks?
the latest version runs on classic Amiga machines - no, it runs on machines expanded with third party PPC accelerators
Blah, blah, blah. There are hardware requirements. Some games does not run on 512 KB Amigas. Probably they are not Amiga games by your definition.
so the developers wouldn't need to recompile their apps for old machines and new machines - Both OS4 and MorphOS will run some legacy apps without recompilation, but far from all of them. And if you're running on a legacy Amiga (with a third party PPC accelerator) you're going to need to reboot to OS3.X to run the rest.
If I want to use AmigaOS 4.1 library functions, I don't need to recompile my software for AmigaOS 4.0 if I want it to run on classic Amiga machines. Because AmigaOS 4.1 is available for classic Amiga machines. With MOS it is not the same case.
Why are OS4 users so defensive?
Is it because most OS3.X users don't want the product?
Or that when OS3.X users examine PPC OS', they frequently choose MorphOS (over OS4).
Defensive? I point obvious mistakes that are always brought to the forums, but as long as you have your AmigaOS 3 machine sitting next to your PC or Mac, I guess you don't need to upgrade.
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@drHirudo
Fab's OWB is only OWB by name (and I'm quite sure you know that). It's a MUI-browser useing WebKit and as such stands on the same level for being it's own browser as Safari or Chrome.
LimberWolf ? Seen it, and for everyday browsing I'd rather take Voyager,IBrowse or even Aweb (yuk). There is a reason why most OS4-users had 2 or more browsers handy, none of them was good enough to get you through the day.
MorphOS-PowerBook support was not ANNOUNCED in 2009, actually I'm quite sure it's not even announced today...... See that the difference with the MorphOS-team, they do show quite open what they are working on but the also make it 100% clear that they can't&won't promise specific features/release-dates while still early in the development-cycle.
OS4.1 on PuP exist for 2 reasons (which boil down to 1 if you think about it):
1) lots of the pro-Hyperion crowd have never made the investment in a OS4-supported nextgen
2) Hyperion can't make money of the X1000 yet (well assuming the prepay-scheme-money wasn't redirected) and the SAMs aren't selling in high enough numbers.
Wether it makes sense to waste resources on 10-15 year old HW needing 15-20 year old motherboards performing on a level that wasn't impressive even back than is another question.
I rather prefer an OS-team that concentrated on perfecting their OS on given HW and going for supporting easy-2-obtain, cheap and powerfull HW, even more if it includes a laptop...
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Fast hardware are required for Windows 7 and MacOS X, it isn't necessary for AmigaOS 4 to feal good to use.
You can run windows 7 on the cheapest & slowest new hardware. I need fast hardware anyway, I would have no use for a slow PPC system.
The problem with AOS4 is that it isn't retro & it isn't modern. AROS falls into the same trap, however AROS is free and the hardware is cheap.
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@drHirudo
Fab's OWB is only OWB by name (and I'm quite sure you know that). It's a MUI-browser useing WebKit and as such stands on the same level for being it's own browser as Safari or Chrome.
Then he shall change the name to avoid confusion with the OWB that was ported to Amiga as well.
LimberWolf ? Seen it, and for everyday browsing I'd rather take Voyager,IBrowse or even Aweb (yuk). There is a reason why most OS4-users had 2 or more browsers handy, none of them was good enough to get you through the day.
You are using all these handy Firefox extensions on the other browsers. Can you share how?
MorphOS-PowerBook support was not ANNOUNCED in 2009, actually I'm quite sure it's not even announced today...... See that the difference with the MorphOS-team, they do show quite open what they are working on but the also make it 100% clear that they can't&won't promise specific features/release-dates while still early in the development-cycle.
Then the Mophosians shall not make public previews to unaware people and give them false hopes. AmigaOS 4 for classic Amiga machines was previewed and it is available.
You and me both know that all these MOS previews are mainly from distraction of the Amiga crowd from the AmigaOS 4 development. It was the case in the year 2010 - something for AmigaOS 4 announced, then some random thread - look screenshot of MOS on G5 Mac - that rules bro, it's fast, hurry up and buy G5 because they are cheap, compared to Peg/Sam/Micro.
OS4.1 on PuP exist for 2 reasons (which boil down to 1 if you think about it):
1) lots of the pro-Hyperion crowd have never made the investment in a OS4-supported nextgen
2) Hyperion can't make money of the X1000 yet (well assuming the prepay-scheme-money wasn't redirected) and the SAMs aren't selling in high enough numbers.
Wether it makes sense to waste resources on 10-15 year old HW needing 15-20 year old motherboards performing on a level that wasn't impressive even back than is another question.
It makes sense if there is someone to buy the product.
I rather prefer an OS-team that concentrated on perfecting their OS on given HW and going for supporting easy-2-obtain, cheap and powerfull HW, even more if it includes a laptop...
AmigaOS 4.
Your latest sentence is irrelevant, because as you said there is no MOS for laptops yet! Contradicting yourself, eh?
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>You are using all these handy Firefox extensions on the other browsers.
> Can you share how?
Why should I ? I'm 100% sure I can view/use more aspects of the web with OWB than you can do with LimberWolf. So maybe it runs some obscure plugins... so what ? I allways click "Deny" when a webpage tries to install on of those anyways.
>Then the Mophosians shall not make public previews to unaware people
>and give them false hopes.
Yeah they should go with useing stupid acronyms (MAP anyone) posting braindead puzzles on their website and not forget to name dates that have no chance of holding water (you don't have to wait till summer).
Way better PR-wise !!!!!
>You and me both know that all these MOS previews are mainly from
>distraction of the Amiga crowd from the AmigaOS 4 development.
You and me both know that you are running low on the pills against your paranoia ....
The whole idea that the MorphOS-team would care enough bout OS4 to time posting screenshots is so far out it could make the plot for the next CSI/NCIS/Law&Order spinoff.
>It makes sense if there is someone to buy the product.
Xactly what I said. Real question is how many would be there to buy the product (OS4 for PuP) if OS4 was available on cheap&powerfull HW.
Something we will never find out.
AmigaOS 4.
Your latest sentence is irrelevant, because as you said there is no MOS for laptops yet! Contradicting yourself, eh?[/QUOTE]
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If I want to use AmigaOS 4.1 library functions, I don't need to recompile my software for AmigaOS 4.0 if I want it to run on classic Amiga machines.
There are actually so few Amiga/PowerUp users left that I would not worry about it.
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>You are using all these handy Firefox extensions on the other browsers.
> Can you share how?
> Why should I ? I'm 100% sure I can view/use more aspects of the web with OWB than you can do with LimberWolf. So maybe it runs some obscure plugins... so what ? I allways click "Deny" when a webpage tries to install on of those anyways.
Your limited Internet usage probably does not include any automation tools.
>Then the Mophosians shall not make public previews to unaware people
>and give them false hopes.
Yeah they should go with useing stupid acronyms (MAP anyone) posting braindead puzzles on their website and not forget to name dates that have no chance of holding water (you don't have to wait till summer).
Way better PR-wise !!!!!
Some people were enjoying the puzzle and one man had to eat his socks. Better than seeing broken alpha videos.
>You and me both know that all these MOS previews are mainly from
>distraction of the Amiga crowd from the AmigaOS 4 development.
You and me both know that you are running low on the pills against your paranoia ....
The whole idea that the MorphOS-team would care enough bout OS4 to time posting screenshots is so far out it could make the plot for the next CSI/NCIS/Law&Order spinoff.
They have nothing better to do than post stupid screenshots or videos. Months later there is nothing they can offer except for a limited filesystem.
>It makes sense if there is someone to buy the product.
Xactly what I said. Real question is how many would be there to buy the product (OS4 for PuP) if OS4 was available on cheap&powerfull HW.
Something we will never find out.
[sarcasm]We found that MorphOS on Mac hardware sold millions of copies and is used widely everywhere. I saw a man with a Mac in the subway two days ago. While I did not had the chance to look at his screen, I think he was running something resembling MorphOS. Since MorphOS sold millions of copies, there is a great chance that he was running MorphOS, no doubt about it. MorphOS is very
professional operating system, running on wide variety of Mac hardware.
[/sarcasm]
Are you happy now? The Mac/MOS simulation shall speak about the situation of the market.
AmigaOS 4.
Your latest sentence is irrelevant, because as you said there is no MOS for laptops yet! Contradicting yourself, eh?
On the other hand you don't need to wonder what OS I am running on my microAmigaOne.
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Then he shall change the name to avoid confusion with the OWB that was ported to Amiga as well.
You're right about that. I really should change the name, and i even know which one i'll use. I've just been too lazy to change it.
You are using all these handy Firefox extensions on the other browsers. Can you share how?
For a start, OWB MorphOS comes with several builtin features that firefox only has as extensions or not at all (to my knowledge):
- webinspector (firebug extension on firefox)
- ad/content blocker (adblockplus or whatever on firefox)
- userscript support (greasemonkey on firefox)
- on demand or automatic session loading/saving (sessionplus or so on firefox?)
- per-url settings (spoofing, images, plugins, ...) like ibrowse
- network activity monitoring
- per-tab private browsing
and a couple others like that...
And about automation, userscripts allow to do quite a lot in that regard. And the REXX support would as well for other aspects (i doubt timberwolf has any kind of REXX port, by the way (not that it would be hard to add)).
If I want to use AmigaOS 4.1 library functions, I don't need to recompile my software for AmigaOS 4.0 if I want it to run on classic Amiga machines. Because AmigaOS 4.1 is available for classic Amiga machines. With MOS it is not the same case.
On the other hand, you don't always have to enforce the latest OS version for nothing (and avoid being as annoying as OSX in that regard). Latest OWB MorphOS version still runs on MorphOS 1.4 (including classic, even if memory and cpu requirements don't really make it really useful on such hw) with some features disabled.
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Ha! +1
I don't want to spend that much for that little either.
Oh look, there are sheep here as well :-)
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Better have such port, than having to reboot into another OS.
Actually I rather boot to another OS than suffer from abysmally bad performance that results. And BTW something like this was done over 10 years ago already with ixemul. It could be done at any time, but why bother when the performance, UI experience and stability would be far from desirable... You don't need to look far to see how badly these "linux ports" perform on OS4.
You mention the fellow who opened threads here about his triple, quadriple or whateveriple booting Mac machine.
Nothing wrong with that I'd say.
It (powerbook support) was announced back in 2009.
You have trouble understanding english it seems.
Sneak preview on Amiga.org (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=50075)
(almost 2 years ago). Fast development?
Since when 18 months was 2 years? That's 1.5 years, not 2.
Regardless during those 18 months we've:
- Released MorphOS 2.5
- Released MorphOS 2.6
- Released MorphOS 2.7
- Released MorphOS with support for eMac (various models)
- Released MorphOS with support for PowerMac G4s (various models)
- Showed preview of ongoing work for both PowerBook G4 and PowerMac G5 versions of MorphOS.
Not fast enough for you?
MOS is even more limited than AmigaOS 4. Most of the users however did not had the chance to try both AmigaOS 4 and MOS on same hardware to judge by themselves.
Who have seen it and judge the situation objectively see the truth indeed: MorphOS beats OS4 on the same HW on every area. Whining how "OS4 is not optimized for Pegasos 2" is getting a bit old now. OS4 still has no USB2 and lacks the proper 3D support, not to mention basic things such as proper support for AltiVec unit, working FAT, NTFS, ext2 or XFS filesystems or a proper console. I see no serious competition.
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Why are OS4 users so defensive?
Counter reaction to the offensive MOS users maybe ?
Hearing for a thousands time that you must be out of your mind enjoying running OS4.x on this uber expensive hardware becomes tiring you know...
At this point I think everybody knows and made up their mind and we even know the proponents and opponents of MOS and OS4. It's time to stop trying to change other's people mind on this.
greets,
Staf.
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Actually I rather boot to another OS than suffer from abysmally bad performance that results. And BTW something like this was done over 10 years ago already with ixemul. It could be done at any time, but why bother when the performance, UI experience and stability would be far from desirable... You don't need to look far to see how badly these "linux ports" perform on OS4.
Nothing wrong with that I'd say.
You are so 1990-ies. Rebooting in different OSes is something from the past. MorphOS is very 1990-ies as well. But keep rebooting if that makes you happy.
The Linux ports I have on my AmigaOS 4 perform exactly as they perform on Linux, some of them better.
Since when 18 months was 2 years? That's 1.5 years, not 2.
The date of the post says 11-07-2009 (I guess this is american standard then). Shall I dig older posts where PowerBook support was announced. Hurry up to delete them before they are found.
Regardless during those 18 months we've:
- Released MorphOS 2.5
- Released MorphOS 2.6
- Released MorphOS 2.7
- Released MorphOS with support for eMac (various models)
- Released MorphOS with support for PowerMac G4s (various models)
- Showed preview of ongoing work for both PowerBook G4 and PowerMac G5 versions of MorphOS.
Not fast enough for you?
Not a public version for any laptop. All these major numberings are in fact minor updates.
AmigaOS 4 was shown X1000. Does this count or not?
Who have seen it and judge the situation objectively see the truth indeed: MorphOS beats OS4 on the same HW on every area. Whining how "OS4 is not optimized for Pegasos 2" is getting a bit old now. OS4 still has no USB2 and lacks the proper 3D support, not to mention basic things such as proper support for AltiVec unit, working FAT, NTFS, ext2 or XFS filesystems or a proper console. I see no serious competition.
MorphOS is limited. No proper filesystems, no memory protection, no virtual memory, no enough ported applications. Best thing to do with MorphOS is to boot it to another OS.
On the other hand AmigaOS 4 fully replaced my AmigaOS 3 installation. I use AREXX scripts daily, they work the same way as they worked before. That's transparent upgrade.
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The date of the post says 11-07-2009 (I guess this is american standard then). Shall I dig older posts where PowerBook support was announced.
Yes, please do.
Hurry up to delete them before they are found.
Uh what?
Not a public version for any laptop.
I've never stated otherwise.
All these major numberings are in fact minor updates.
By your definition maybe. That's far from the truth however.
MorphOS is limited. No proper filesystems
If your definition of a proper filesystem is one with support for >4GB files then we do have such filesystems. Several in fact.
no memory protection
The level of memory protection in MorphOS equals that of AmigaOS4.
no virtual memory
IMHO there's no need for virtual memory in amigoid system. At least I haven't found need for it. In fact we had VM many years ago (before AmigaOS4 even existed) but we found it quite useless in most real world usage scenarios.
no enough ported applications.
In your opinion. I'll rather have proper native applications such as OWB rather than half-as*ed linux ports such as Timberwolf.
You of course can keep on repeating your flawed claims ad infinitum if you wish. It won't make them any more true, however.
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Not a public version for any laptop. All these major numberings are in fact minor updates.
AmigaOS 4 was shown X1000. Does this count or not?
Minor updates that added several new supported models, new features and bug fixes. Ok, let's call them minor updates.
Can you tell me how any OS4 update was major, now?
MorphOS is limited. No proper filesystems, no memory protection, no virtual memory, no enough ported applications. Best thing to do with MorphOS is to boot it to another OS.
Err, and how exactly is OS4 performing on these areas, exactly?
There's no memory protection, the virtual memory is best turned off because it's buggy as hell with some apps anyway. What's your proper filesystem?
And if you exclude SDL and cygnix 5 minutes jobs, how many proper ports do you have?
On the other hand AmigaOS 4 fully replaced my AmigaOS 3 installation. I use AREXX scripts daily, they work the same way as they worked before. That's transparent upgrade.
Just as they work on MorphOS... On the other hand Magellan still doesn't work on OS4.
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Or that when OS3.X users examine PPC OS', they frequently choose MorphOS (over OS4)?
It's true that there is a very vocal number of MOS proponents here on amiga.org. But does is represent the majority of the amiga community ?
If you look at both the 'the way forward' poll as for 'the everyday OS' poll OS4.x comes ahead of MOS.
It's only by a small margin though but I don't think it supports the conclusion that only insane, retro zealots are using OS4 and the rest is using MOS (and I am sure these numbers will now change).
You probably know I have now a MOS MAC machine at home (and I am very gratefull to you for that BTW). So now I also follow MorphZone and with all the talk here on amiga.org I expected a bruising community there. After some weeks I don't have any prove that the MOS community is more bruising than the OS4 community (I also follow amigaworld.net).
greets,
Staf.
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Just as they work on MorphOS... On the other hand Magellan still doesn't work on OS4.
Regarding Magellan one could argue if it's better to have the functions of Magellan in the OS instead of runing an old, never to be upgraded replacement? I agree that it's good to have around while functions are lacking but the goal is to replace Magellan and not having to need it. I sure hope that it will be replaced (not talking just about AOS now).
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Regarding Magellan one could argue if it's better to have the functions of Magellan in the OS instead of runing an old, never to be upgraded replacement? I agree that it's good to have around while functions are lacking but the goal is to replace Magellan and not having to need it. I sure hope that it will be replaced (not talking just about AOS now).
Sure, and Ambient actually takes inspiration from Magellan in many aspects.
But it's actually a greater concern for OS4 where the Workbench really shows its limitations as a filemanager or even modern desktop (despite all the commodities/patches trying to enhance it). Filer OS4 is a good step to have a proper file manager, but it should really be integrated in the workbench itself.
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Sure, and Ambient actually takes inspiration from Magellan in many aspects.
But it's actually a greater concern for OS4 where the Workbench really shows its limitations as a filemanager or even modern desktop (despite all the commodities/patches trying to enhance it). Filer OS4 is a good step to have a proper file manager, but it should really be integrated in the workbench itself.
I agree but AFAIK it's on their to-do list. Workbench in itself has limitations, no doubt. Yep filer are being used a lot :-) .
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@HotRod
I'd like to know why people using AOS 3 doesn't jump on the AOS 4 train? What is holding you back exactly?
You are saying "jump on the OS4 train" like it would be a natural thing to do for everyone. But it isn't.
Well, in order to make my point I'd like to start with a short summary of the Amiga evolution past OS 3.0:
1992 – Amiga OS 3.0 is released
1994 – Commodore stumble (and eventually falls in 1995). But they manage to get Amiga OS 3.1 in various ways, and distribution was further formalized by Escom when they took over in 1995.
1995-1996 – In the shadow of Commodore’s bankruptcy, a community driven effort to create an Open Source version of Amiga OS is formed; the Amiga Replacement Operating System (later “Amiga Research Operating System”, and even more later simply “AROS”). First AROS release announcement on usenet is from Aug 1996
1999 – Haage & Partner/Amiga Inc releases a new version of Amiga OS which contained many of the “hacks and patches” that most Amiga users had had to resolve to in order to get their Amiga’s to function in a more modern way.
2000 – The first public version of MorphOS is released for free download. It ran exclusively on Amiga’s back then, but the target was set for the upcoming Pegasos PPC computer.
2000 – Later that year a new version of Amiga OS is being released by Haage & Partner/Amiga Inc.
2004 – Hyperion releases the first “Pre-Release” version of their OS4.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2369/5795704853_b722d5d487_z.jpg) (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2369/5795704853_b722d5d487_b.jpg)
Today and the future – We now have 4 different operating systems that people in the community uses daily; Amiga OS 3.x, AROS, MorphOS and OS4.
OS4 is PPC only, and Hyperion representatives has on numerous occasions publically denounced any kind of port of their OS to a different architecture than PPC. MorphOS is also tied to PPC, but nothing has been said about future migration. AROS is multi-platform and open source, which seem appealing to some.
But you can’t forget the fourth (or should I say *first*?) platform; the original (real) Amiga! And I think you could draw a line between this one, and the other three, since the other three is about SW only, while the first one also weight heavily on Amiga hardware. Enthusiasts of this flavor has continued to improve their OS in various ways (like we always did), and AROS is already helping somewhat here, and will continue to help even more in the future. We can call this branch "Amiga OS +", or why not "AOS+" or similar, in order to *not* breach anyones Trade Mark IP. Its about evolving the 68k Amiga OS.
In addition to Individual Computers (and others) efforts of bringing new technology standards and interfaces to the Amiga computers, there are also Various interesting HW projects are being made to *reimplement* the Amiga (like Minimig) and also *improve* it and *evolve* it (like Natami). These are real Amiga's, *not* in name only (in fact - not in name at all), but in *technology*.
And which one of the OS flavors will be of interest to these Amiga enthusiasts?
Well, from the Q&A section of Natami:
Q: "What operating systems will the Natami support?"
A: "Our target for supported operating systems are exclusively Amiga OS and AROS. All the clever features of the original Amiga hardware and Natami hardware can never be properly used by Linux."
So they want an OS that *fully* makes use of the new (and existing) Amiga hardware.
And no – "Amiga OS" does *not* mean OS4, for obvious reasons. Hyperion’s OS4 isn’t even on the map for these people, it couldn’t be more irrelevant. What is relevant is to continue to build on and improve the Amiga OS that works on real Amigas!
Hope you understand better now.
:)
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Best thing to do with MorphOS is to boot it to another OS.
ah ah ah ah LOL :-D
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@HotRod
You are saying "jump on the OS4 train" like it would be a natural thing to do for everyone. But it isn't.
WTF was that?! Ehm... I asked because I wondered why and that was it? I know the history so I don't need a lesson. What do you want me to understand? I wonder why some are still using AOS 3.
I think you read things that aren't there.
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Blah, blah, blah. There are hardware requirements. Some games does not run on 512 KB Amigas. Probably they are not Amiga games by your definition.
Except that "classic Amiga" has always had a fairly definite definition to the community, to wit: original Amiga machines (1000-4000) running on 68k. Labeling another version of a PPC-only OS as "classic" is just another example of how tuned out from the community Hyperion are.
Defensive? I point obvious mistakes that are always brought to the forums, but as long as you have your AmigaOS 3 machine sitting next to your PC or Mac, I guess you don't need to upgrade.
Nope, guess I don't! :D
Oh look, there are sheep here as well :-)
"OS4: even sheep won't buy it!"
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Wait, SIDs tunes are replayed nice with DeliTracker and EaglePlayer on classic Amiga machine in software, without the extra cost of SID chip.
They are replayed "ok", but playsid misses filter emulation etc. i recommend you try sidplay-residfp if you are going to emulate the sid.
as for the argument about moving from classic etc, i have moved. i last got a z68 mb with core i5 cpu, and a free os that works well for me. the amiga was never just about the "os" to me anyway. that came much later. it was about the games/demos etc.
I have a ppc mac mini here, and if morphos was available for a significantly cheaper price or free, I would no doubt have a play with it on the mac. same for os4. but they are imho overpriced, and developed in a way that doesn't interest me (private source and clubs/teams).
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WTF was that?! Ehm... I asked because I wondered why and that was it? I know the history so I don't need a lesson. What do you want me to understand? I wonder why some are still using AOS 3.
I think you read things that aren't there.
The "history lesson" is part of the explanation to why some are still using Amiga OS 3.x. It would have been equally relevant if you would have asked "Why haven't you jumped on the AROS train yet" or "Why haven't you jumped on the MorphOS train yet", and the answer would be the same: They want to use Amigas as they always have. They want the Amiga hardware, they want the Amiga OS that runs on it and maximizes the use of it. And they want to evolve the OS by patches and add-ons, updated stuff, etc. Isn't there some kind of effort of modernizing Amiga OS 3 by using components from AROS? I think I recall something about that. This will increase as soon as Natami gets here (if it ever gets here). A new, completely unofficial quasi-version of AmigaOS 68k is likely to evolve (what I called "AOS+" above), containing a mixture of real Amiga OS 3.x components and new ones from AROS and the Natami teams (like: "First install OS 3.x, then install this service pack on top of it that replaces, updates and adds new features. Then reboot!").
Some Amiga 68k users are happy with the way things are, some wants to expand and modernize the HW by add-ons that still comes from Individual Computer (and Elbox?). Natami will evolve the Amiga 68k. It won't bring it "up to date", but I don't think that matters to these people, they are more into the technology and retro hobby aspect of things. And that is my point.
MorphOS, AROS and OS4 is a completely different thing that I don't think appeal to these people. The goal for these three OS's are more to be able to do real 2011 things; like playing 2011 level media files, use the Internet in a 2011 kind of way, etc, but in an Amiga environment, and still being able to use most of the Amiga applications. One of the most central and fundamental goals of all three of these OS's was about "breaking free" from the old Amiga hardware and its limitations in a modern era context.
But even then OS4 is probably the least appealing of the three:
- AROS main feature is that it runs on x86 and other platforms.
- MorphOS is the one that has evolved the furthest, by far; it has the best features, the most features, the best "Amiga standards" built in, the best Amiga compatibility, the best performance, and although its bound to PPC hardware, it runs on extremely cheap, mainstream HW of very high quality and is as powerful as the PPC desktop HW ever became. In that sense, MorphOS certainly represents the very peak of Amiga evolution this far.
- OS4 has less features, poorer features, the "left over" Amiga standards built in, Amiga compatibility has never been really prioritized (which shows), performance comparisons between OS4 and MorphOS shows that OS4 comes far behind, and its hardware base consists of low volume custom HW with *risky* long-time support situation; the Sam is severely overpriced and underspecced, the X1000 will be even more overpriced (if it ever gets here, which looks more and more doubtful).
In fact, OS4's main attraction is its access to the trade marks "amigaone" and "amigaos4". And evidently this is very important to a certain breed of people, and they are probably the ones that gets the most confused when Amiga Inc starts awarding trade mark licenses to the left and right, they are the loud ones screaming "foul" as soon as a Commodore USA thread pops up in the forums.
But the rest of us; the MorphOS users, the AROS users, heck even the OS3 "classic" users that are hoping on some kind of Amiga evolution through Natami and AROS, has gotten over the trade mark bullshit a long time ago. We left that behind. I'd even say that most of us are tired of all the crap that surrounds it. We don't need Ben Herman's or Bill McEwen's approval of what to like and use as our "Amiga". We are more interested in the technology, the features, and having a decent bang for the buck ratio. And this is where OS4 fails, in every single point of measurement.
The "NG" OS's are obviously not of very big interest to the Amiga 68k crowd, but even if they were, then OS4 would still be the most irrelevant of all three of them. It's the one being furthest away. It's *not* like there is a logical "Amiga OS 3" -> "OS4" upgrade path, despite the somewhat confusing naming of the products, and that's why the formulation of your initial question was a little funny. Heck, I'd say that OS4 is completely redundant to anyone not interested in "amigaone" and "amigaos4" trade mark stickers.
Hope you understand better now.
:)
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Hello!
I'd like to know why people using AOS 3 doesn't jump on the AOS 4 train? What is holding you back exactly? I've been an a4k user myself and wasn't sure when I bought my amigaone but I haven't regret it ever and it really is amiga in every single way but upgraded.
From my point-of-view I don't see much point.
The main things I do with my Amiga are play retro games and watch demos and I also get a kick out of seeing what an old 1200 Amiga can be pushed into doing with a few choice expansions (Eg playing Sam & Max).
I wouldn't get any of the same kind of buzz out of running such retro software on a 'new' OS4 machine and there's really nothing there that interests me much software/hardware/OS.
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hmm can't be that: Perhaps you mean this linux^h^h^h^h^hamiga app called timberwolf (http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=33768&forum=32)?
What's up with this "dll hell" anyway? Doesn't sound very "amiga" to me.
This is just wrong. This is not amiga. I'll take os and apps that use proper amiga libraries and not some kind of half-as*ed shared object implementation borrowed from linux (on os4 they aren't even shared, each opener gets their own copy.. Fail!). It just can't work without package manager with proper dependency system. This will end badly: "its just a case of duplicating the listed sobjs in the sobjs drawer and renaming them to match. Once you have done this try again." or "just make a duplicate copy of it and rename the duplicate to the above and repeat with the other files which are missing.".
Proper shared libraries with per-opener static data are well possible as is proven by numerous such libraries existing in for example in amigaos 3.x and morphos. Why amigaos4 "designers" chose this lazy route with non-shared shared objects is beyond me.
O M G ! ! !
:rolleyes:
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I hope some developers make a new m68k microprocessor. I still like single-core CISC. :hammer:
I think it will be called 68050 (or was it 68070?), when/if it ever gets ready. Check the Natami's website... :)
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Regardless during those 18 months we've:
- Released MorphOS 2.5
- Released MorphOS 2.6
- Released MorphOS 2.7
- Released MorphOS with support for eMac (various models)
- Released MorphOS with support for PowerMac G4s (various models)
- Showed preview of ongoing work for both PowerBook G4 and PowerMac G5 versions of MorphOS.
Not fast enough for you?
Who have seen it and judge the situation objectively see the truth indeed: MorphOS beats OS4 on the same HW on every area. Whining how "OS4 is not optimized for Pegasos 2" is getting a bit old now. OS4 still has no USB2 and lacks the proper 3D support, not to mention basic things such as proper support for AltiVec unit, working FAT, NTFS, ext2 or XFS filesystems or a proper console. I see no serious competition.
OS 4.1.3 is coming any year now...
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It's quite simple OS 3.x is the best there is... :)
Everything else (cept for AROS 68K, if I can get it to work...:() are failed wannabes for hardware that's in most case's got as much in common with a real Amiga as I have with the ruddy English langauge... :)
PS: Don't bother telling me that OS4.x runs on real Amiga hardware (it may do if you have a PPC & GFX board) but it's still about as useful as a fart in a poke... ;)
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You're right about that. I really should change the name, and i even know which one i'll use. I've just been too lazy to change it.
For a start, OWB MorphOS comes with several builtin features that firefox only has as extensions or not at all (to my knowledge):
- webinspector (firebug extension on firefox)
- ad/content blocker (adblockplus or whatever on firefox)
- userscript support (greasemonkey on firefox)
- on demand or automatic session loading/saving (sessionplus or so on firefox?)
- per-url settings (spoofing, images, plugins, ...) like ibrowse
- network activity monitoring
- per-tab private browsing
and a couple others like that...
And about automation, userscripts allow to do quite a lot in that regard. And the REXX support would as well for other aspects (i doubt timberwolf has any kind of REXX port, by the way (not that it would be hard to add)).
On the other hand, you don't always have to enforce the latest OS version for nothing (and avoid being as annoying as OSX in that regard). Latest OWB MorphOS version still runs on MorphOS 1.4 (including classic, even if memory and cpu requirements don't really make it really useful on such hw) with some features disabled.
Sorry if its off-topic, but does OWB MorphOS have a user-agent switcher? some websites I use often complain and disallow access unless you are using a "correct" browser.
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OS 4.1.3 is coming any year now...
As soon as one of the main MOS devs said that he would rather reboot into another OS than having X, Y, Z, I lost interest in purchasing powerful Mac hardware to run the amiga alike OS.
Yeah, I know they don't care.
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Sorry if its off-topic, but does OWB MorphOS have a user-agent switcher? some websites I use often complain and disallow access unless you are using a "correct" browser.
Are you talking about spoofing as another browser? Of course, Fab's browser can do that, with different settings for different URL's even!
(From above: "- per-url settings (spoofing, images, plugins, ...) like ibrowse")
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- MorphOS the best "Amiga standards" built in, the best Amiga compatibility,
- OS4 has less features, poorer features, the "left over" Amiga standards built in, Amiga compatibility has never been really prioritized (which shows),
Oh? So MorphOS does display Ham now, like OS4.x?
Last time this was discussed on Morphzone it did not.
Hardly an earthshattering limitation, but still...to basically say it was not an Amiga standard or part of Amiga compatibility is just silly.
source (http://www.morphzone.org/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=7241&forum=9#76816)
#6
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Are you talking about spoofing as another browser? Of course, Fab's browser can do that, with different settings for different URL's even!
(From above: "- per-url settings (spoofing, images, plugins, ...) like ibrowse")
D'oh! well then, now I know :D
And yes, spoofing, although I usually connotate "spoofing" as a negative act, whereas me trying to access my bank and being told by their POS website "We only support IE" makes me hot under the collar.
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D'oh! well then, now I know :D
And yes, spoofing, although I usually connotate "spoofing" as a negative act, whereas me trying to access my bank and being told by their POS website "We only support IE" makes me hot under the collar.
In fact, spoofing (as well as other settings like plugins, images, ...) can be controlled at 3 different priority levels, from the highest to lowest :
- from pulldown menu
- on a per-url basis (with pattern support). Useful when you want to spoof a site as ipad and disable Flash, to get HTML5 video, for instance. But there are many other interesting possibilities.
- globally in owb preferences
And this is basically how Ibrowse handled it too (and it was a good thing to take inspiration from :)).
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D'oh! well then, now I know :D
And yes, spoofing, although I usually connotate "spoofing" as a negative act, whereas me trying to access my bank and being told by their POS website "We only support IE" makes me hot under the collar.
:)
Indeed "spoofing" is very useful, and the key to access some online functions that's out there, like uploading videos to utube. Or using the online version of Microsoft Office under MorphOS (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=625661&postcount=26). :)
Fab's browser is *a real* browser, that you *can use for real*. No bullshit. It was really funny to see this MorphOS browser displaying CSS3 better than Internet Explorer (until IE9 was released). :)
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From my viewpoint:
The hardware is unaffordable, and the compatibility reports that I have seen are not encouraging. It is more difficult than it should be to do OS3->OS4 ports, much more hassle than to do eg. OS3->MOS ports. Some kind of AmigaOne emulator so that OS4 can be run under x86 would mean a lot more people could run it. And there's a lot of bugs in OS4 yet to be fixed, and it still doesn't implement the full OS3.9 API (eg. the "effect" command in Installer, the Alert() function, etc.). Plus it seems bloated, I read somewhere 96Mb minimum RAM just to get the thing booted, that's crazy!
I do want it to succeed. It's just the unaffordability and technical shortcomings that are holding me back from buying one. Plus the vitriolic hostility towards OS3 users that is shown by some OS4 users and developers is a definite drawback, why would one want to join a user community like that?
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"OS4: even sheep won't buy it!"
MOS can have the sheep ;-)
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The "history lesson" is part of the explanation to why some are still using Amiga OS 3.x. It would have been equally relevant if you would have asked "Why haven't you jumped on the AROS train yet" or "Why haven't you jumped on the MorphOS train yet", and the answer would be the same: They want to use Amigas as they always have. They want the Amiga hardware, they want the Amiga OS that runs on it and maximizes the use of it. And they want to evolve the OS by patches and add-ons, updated stuff, etc. Isn't there some kind of effort of modernizing Amiga OS 3 by using components from AROS? I think I recall something about that. This will increase as soon as Natami gets here (if it ever gets here). A new, completely unofficial quasi-version of AmigaOS 68k is likely to evolve (what I called "AOS+" above), containing a mixture of real Amiga OS 3.x components and new ones from AROS and the Natami teams (like: "First install OS 3.x, then install this service pack on top of it that replaces, updates and adds new features. Then reboot!").
Some Amiga 68k users are happy with the way things are, some wants to expand and modernize the HW by add-ons that still comes from Individual Computer (and Elbox?). Natami will evolve the Amiga 68k. It won't bring it "up to date", but I don't think that matters to these people, they are more into the technology and retro hobby aspect of things. And that is my point.
MorphOS, AROS and OS4 is a completely different thing that I don't think appeal to these people. The goal for these three OS's are more to be able to do real 2011 things; like playing 2011 level media files, use the Internet in a 2011 kind of way, etc, but in an Amiga environment, and still being able to use most of the Amiga applications. One of the most central and fundamental goals of all three of these OS's was about "breaking free" from the old Amiga hardware and its limitations in a modern era context.
But even then OS4 is probably the least appealing of the three:
- AROS main feature is that it runs on x86 and other platforms.
- MorphOS is the one that has evolved the furthest, by far; it has the best features, the most features, the best "Amiga standards" built in, the best Amiga compatibility, the best performance, and although its bound to PPC hardware, it runs on extremely cheap, mainstream HW of very high quality and is as powerful as the PPC desktop HW ever became. In that sense, MorphOS certainly represents the very peak of Amiga evolution this far.
- OS4 has less features, poorer features, the "left over" Amiga standards built in, Amiga compatibility has never been really prioritized (which shows), performance comparisons between OS4 and MorphOS shows that OS4 comes far behind, and its hardware base consists of low volume custom HW with *risky* long-time support situation; the Sam is severely overpriced and underspecced, the X1000 will be even more overpriced (if it ever gets here, which looks more and more doubtful).
In fact, OS4's main attraction is its access to the trade marks "amigaone" and "amigaos4". And evidently this is very important to a certain breed of people, and they are probably the ones that gets the most confused when Amiga Inc starts awarding trade mark licenses to the left and right, they are the loud ones screaming "foul" as soon as a Commodore USA thread pops up in the forums.
But the rest of us; the MorphOS users, the AROS users, heck even the OS3 "classic" users that are hoping on some kind of Amiga evolution through Natami and AROS, has gotten over the trade mark bullshit a long time ago. We left that behind. I'd even say that most of us are tired of all the crap that surrounds it. We don't need Ben Herman's or Bill McEwen's approval of what to like and use as our "Amiga". We are more interested in the technology, the features, and having a decent bang for the buck ratio. And this is where OS4 fails, in every single point of measurement.
The "NG" OS's are obviously not of very big interest to the Amiga 68k crowd, but even if they were, then OS4 would still be the most irrelevant of all three of them. It's the one being furthest away. It's *not* like there is a logical "Amiga OS 3" -> "OS4" upgrade path, despite the somewhat confusing naming of the products, and that's why the formulation of your initial question was a little funny. Heck, I'd say that OS4 is completely redundant to anyone not interested in "amigaone" and "amigaos4" trade mark stickers.
Hope you understand better now.
:)
First of all while this is probably true for some users as you can see in this very tread it isn't for everyone so got the answers that I wanted, a lot that I didn't wanted but it was expected and that's about it. All I cared for.
All the other things that you and others brings up about which is the best OS (you just can't help yourselfes, can you?) should be in another thread. However 10 years of that discussion should be enough, don't you think? It got nothing to do with this thread. I know that some choosed other paths than AOS 4, I read these sites and mailinglists ever since internet existed and before that on BBSs so just give it a rest, ok?
Why are you writing all this? I know the Amiga history well, been there, made my choices, didn't take the MOS or AROS path. It's free for anyone to answer my question with "I thought MOS was better so I have moved on with that path" and the same with AROS but that's really all that's needed. You can add why and be done with it.
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First of all while this is probably true for some users as you can see in this very tread it isn't for everyone so got the answers that I wanted, a lot that I didn't wanted but it was expected and that's about it. All I cared for.
All the other things that you and others brings up about which is the best OS (you just can't help yourselfes, can you?) should be in another thread. However 10 years of that discussion should be enough, don't you think? It got nothing to do with this thread. I know that some choosed other paths than AOS 4, I read these sites and mailinglists ever since internet existed and before that on BBSs so just give it a rest, ok?
Why are you writing all this? I know the Amiga history well, been there, made my choices, didn't take the MOS or AROS path. It's free for anyone to answer my question with "I thought MOS was better so I have moved on with that path" and the same with AROS but that's really all that's needed. You can add why and be done with it.
Well, you asked why Amiga OS 3 users hadn't jumped on the OS4 train yet, like it would be the most natural thing for them to do. But those on amiga.org still using OS3 are obviously mainly here for nostalgia and retro hobby reasons, so neither of the NG OS's is probably of very much interest to them. And if they were, then OS4 would probably be *the least* interesting one, and I simply explained why, as you seemed a bit clueless and surprised about this by the tone of your "why haven't you done it yet, what's holding you back" kind of post.
As most other people in this thread also suggested (many OS3 users), when you look at what OS4 is really bringing to the table, when you look at the HW available for it, and then the price tags, and then at your wallet, most people probably ask themselves "why on earth would I go for that one?" It's not strange that these people don't buy OS4, it would be stranger if they did.
Hope you understand better now.
:)
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Well, you asked why Amiga OS 3 users hadn't jumped on the OS4 train yet, like it would be the most natural thing for them to do. But those on amiga.org still using OS3 are obviously mainly here for nostalgia and retro hobby reasons, so neither of the NG OS's is probably of very much interest to them. And if they were, then OS4 would probably be *the least* interesting one, and I simply explained why, as you seemed a bit clueless and surprised about this by the tone of your "why haven't you done it yet, what's holding you back" kind of post.
As most other people in this thread also suggested (many OS3 users), when you look at what OS4 is really bringing to the table, when you look at the HW available for it, and then the price tags, and then at your wallet, most people probably ask themselves "why on earth would I go for that one?" It's not strange that these people don't buy OS4, it would be stranger if they did.
Hope you understand better now.
:)
Either way I wanted to read each users explanation and not some conclution from you or anyone else.
Hope you understand better now.
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Either way I wanted to read each users explanation and not some conclution from you or anyone else.
So...you want our explanations, but not our conclusions? How does that work?
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yup ..same old, same old :smack: man do I love these types of threads:insane:
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Either way I wanted to read each users explanation and not some conclution from you or anyone else.
Hope you understand better now.
Well, you got it all; a lot of explanations from various people as well as several conclusions. Lock, stock and barrel. As a result I think you should really understand better now... :)
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Well, you got it all; a lot of explanations from various people as well as several conclusions. Lock, stock and barrel. As a result I think you should really understand better now... :)
Haha yeah I get it, your sad and jealous. Hope that it will get better soon ;)
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So...you want our explanations, but not our conclusions? How does that work?
I don't want anything from you since you got nothing to add. Your just showing what a sad little person you are and you are too stupid to realize that. Sorry but that's the way I see it. You haven't written one line worth of reading.
The famous MOS nutcases... what a sad community... :D
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I don't want anything from you since you got nothing to add. Your just showing what a sad little person you are and you are too stupid to realize that. Sorry but that's the way I see it. You haven't written one line worth of reading.
The famous MOS nutcases... what a sad community... :D
So...what, you asked for my opinion when you didn't actually want it? Right, that makes sense.
(Also, I'm not a MorphOS user or advocate - I'm 68k all the way. And if I were going to switch to PPC, it'd be on Linux or Haiku. I just feel that, you know, $1000 for hardware that underperforms a $100 used Mac is a bit ridiculous, and by "a bit" I mean "a lot." But I guess you're not going to read this, since you apparently never wanted the opinions you asked for at the start of the thread...)
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Haha yeah I get it, your sad and jealous. Hope that it will get better soon ;)
"Sad and jealous?"
Then I'm afraid you *haven't* understood *one single thing* of any of my posts here (and obviously not anything of the other replies you got either from other users). As a MorphOS user I have everything that you don't have. So I'm not jealous, not at all. And certainly not sad. MorphOS 2.7 is the peak of Amiga evolution as it stands now, and 2.8 is coming with many new promising features and performance boosts.
How can I make you understand better? You are *pretending* to be interested in peoples opinions, but it seems you are only listening to one single frequency on the radio; the gospel channel. But if gospel is all you want to hear, then maybe you should stick to the gospel world, where your kind of gospel is the only thing allowed?
Instead of coming here and pretending to be interested in other peoples opinions...?
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"Sad and jealous?"
Then I'm afraid you *haven't* understood *one single thing* of any of my posts here (and obviously not anything of the other replies you got either from other users). As a MorphOS user I have everything that you don't have. So I'm not jealous, not at all. And certainly not sad. MorphOS 2.7 is the peak of Amiga evolution as it stands now, and 2.8 is coming with many new promising features and performance boosts.
How can I make you understand better? You are *pretending* to be interested in peoples opinions, but it seems you are only listening to one single frequency on the radio; the gospel channel. But if gospel is all you want to hear, then maybe you should stick to the gospel world, where your kind of gospel is the only thing allowed?
Instead of coming here and pretending to be interested in other peoples opinions...?
That is what it seems like to YOU. I know that it is not the case, you do not. The reason for why I am not interested in what you and some others are writings are because it is things I allready know, I didn't look for long explanations from a few people speaking for everyone and obviously you don't understand why I asked at all.
Dont you get it? I find your answers to be a complete waist of time. I didn't ask you to tell what other people think but still you did and then you are repeating it over and over. You tell me that I don't understand but YOU don't understand that what you write I things that I already know and it wasn't what I asked for. Somewhere in there are the answer to my question as well but why spend time writing a novell about things that are of no interest to me? I don't need to read what I've experienced and that's been talked about over and over hundreds of times.
What is it that I don't get? Are you *really* sure that it isn't YOU that don't get it?
I wonder how serious issues one must have to write MOS propaganda in each and every reply for the single reason that I asked a question that had the line "AmigaOS 4" in it? I just can't even imagine what that must be like.
Like I wrote in another thread MOS will never be an option to me because of some MOS-users that are... well you can read the thread yourself. Something must be seriously wrong, so much that it's not even funny.
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So...what, you asked for my opinion when you didn't actually want it? Right, that makes sense.
(Also, I'm not a MorphOS user or advocate - I'm 68k all the way. And if I were going to switch to PPC, it'd be on Linux or Haiku. I just feel that, you know, $1000 for hardware that underperforms a $100 used Mac is a bit ridiculous, and by "a bit" I mean "a lot." But I guess you're not going to read this, since you apparently never wanted the opinions you asked for at the start of the thread...)
Well good for you! Great! I'm happy that your happy, but I needed ONE answer because I asked ONE question. Why don't you keep whatever else you got on your mind to yourself, write a book about it, make movie, talk to you girlfriend or whatever. You've answered and now I can see that you're repeating yourself. If you got nothing to add stop? Just a suggestion.
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Are you *really* sure that it isn't YOU that don't get it?
Yes, quite sure.
But I think you should ask someone else to explain it to you. You aren't really receiving so there is little point in sending. You never understood better. Tune in to the gospel channel, and enjoy. Over and out!
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Well good for you! Great! I'm happy that your happy, but I needed ONE answer because I asked ONE question.
That's funny...I kinda figured you needed ten answers, because you asked the same question ten times...
If you got nothing to add stop? Just a suggestion.
Right back at ya, pal ;P
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@HotRod
Why is this thread going on for pages and pages. I thought I gave some good answers. Maybe you're asking the wrong questions.
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Yes, quite sure.
But I think you should ask someone else to explain it to you. You aren't really receiving so there is little point in sending. You never understood better. Tune in to the gospel channel, and enjoy. Over and out!
Good, I'm quite sure as well especially since you had to write that "gospel channel" comment. You are so into MOS and the history and not liking AOS 4, hyperion, amiga inc and all that that you can't think about anything else. I have no idea what that got to do with my question or why you are posting what you are. I just wanted simple answers and as you can see not veryone had the same reason that you got. It is interesting to me, that's all.
I already know that the hardware are expensive etc but is it *that* hard to write YOUR opinion ONCE?
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@HotRod
Why is this thread going on for pages and pages. I thought I gave some good answers. Maybe you're asking the wrong questions.
I'm already happy with the answers which I wrote somewhere several pages back. Some replys that are OT on the other hand...
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Sorry for off topic reply ...
@Iggy
And right now most OS4 users are using a version of OWB ported from MorphOS.
I don't think it is available to most OS4 users. Beta testers maybe.
I currently use
OWB 3.31
NetSurf 3.0 (Development) graphics.library static build
AmigaOS4 OEM version of IBrowse 2.4
AWeb APL 3.5.09 Lite
---
redfox
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As I stated earlier in this thread I tried OS4 twice and found it so severely lacking it soured me to hyperion to the point that I will never give them another penny no matter what product they release.
Personally even though I own Morphos, I consider myself a classic user and my goal from any next generation solution is to run my classic applications faster. I'd let my 7 year old Peg2 take the pepsi challenge against in classic emulation speed against any OS4 hardware. If I need more speed I've got a 1.5 GHz Mac Mini sat here waiting (currently working as my iTunes server) or a 1.2 GHz G4 Power Mac that I can Buy a 1.8 GHz CPU upgrade for. If I went to OS4 the fastest hardware I could run is the same 7 year old board I already own but the integrated classic emulation has been proved to be slower than on Morphos (I seriously doubt that the 460 with its more modern features can make up for a CPU that still essentially at least a generation behind the G4).
There is NO next generation Amiga solution that can cope with my day to day demands from my computers (I use a mix of Windows, Linux, Mac's and commerical Unix's).
I also find the OS4 community a very caustic environment from hyperion through the developers and down to many of the users, where if your face doesn't fit or your opinions differ to the official hyperion party line that you're labelled a troll. The Morphos community by comparison tend to be much more laid back, as is the classic community where every one tends to get on (with the exception of one particular Scotsman :p ) As someone who tends to be straight talking and not masseur of fevered egos I'll just pass on joining a group of people I find that I know I'd piss off without trying.
While I'm on a roll I find it f$%king annoying that some OS4 apps are been labelled as AmigaOS apps.
Gaz
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While I'm on a roll I find it f$%king annoying that some OS4 apps are been labelled as AmigaOS apps.
Gaz
Is that the laid back attitude you where talking about?
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Is that the laid back attitude you where talking about?
Fraid not, that the "straight talking and not masseur of fevered egos"
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Fraid not, that the "straight talking and not masseur of fevered egos"
Well you're aparently full of it so I don't care about what you say... it's just bla bla bla bla....
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@HotRod
Why is this thread going on for pages and pages. I thought I gave some good answers. Maybe you're asking the wrong questions.
It seems that after 12 pages of this nonsense, Hotrod's only intention was to ignore all logic and serious questions and just troll.
Good job man! We took the bait.
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It seems that after 12 pages of this nonsense, Hotrod's only intention was to ignore all logic and serious questions and just troll.
Good job man! We took the bait.
I see that you tried to do some thinking and as usual it didn't go all that well now did it? Like I've written (it doesn't seem like everyone in this thread are capable of reading and understanding) I'm done with this thread. The only thing going on right now are some little sad persons trolling around.
Well again... I'm done with this thread. Wanna write crap? Sure, I got time but otherwise I'm done.
In case that I've been unclear, one more time, I've gotten the answers that I wanted.
So... you're one of those bully wanna-be but you're a little nerd that can't take it outdoors so instead you try your best here? Awww, that is so sad.
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I can't believe this thread is still chugging along!
If the original intent was to sell some OS3.X users on the advantages of OS4 its failed miserably.
And I actually welcome the presence of Hyperion in the PPC market. Code developed for OS4 should port easily to MorphOS (if we could find some OS4 code worth moving in that direction). Instead we've got you troglodytes insulting one of my favorite programmers (who did your market a favor when your own OWB coder quit).
Given enough time, OS4 might become a fairly decent operating system (I particularly like the recent announcement that OpenGL will eventually be supported).
But right now the community supporting it should be more cautious with their statements and comparisons.
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I can't believe this thread is still chugging along!
If the original intent was to sell some OS3.X users on the advantages of OS4 its failed miserably.
And I actually welcome the presence of Hyperion in the PPC market. Code developed for OS4 should port easily to MorphOS (if we could find some OS4 code worth moving in that direction). Instead we've got you troglodytes insulting one of my favorite programmers (who did your market a favor when your own OWB coder quit).
Given enough time, OS4 might become a fairly decent operating system (I particularly like the recent announcement that OpenGL will eventually be supported).
But right now the community supporting it should be more cautious with their statements and comparisons.
I've already written what the purpose was. Is it really that hard to read?
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I see that you tried to do some thinking and as usual it didn't go all that well now did it? Like I've written (it doesn't seem like everyone in this thread are capable of reading and understanding) I'm done with this thread. The only thing going on right now are some little sad persons trolling around.
Well again... I'm done with this thread. Wanna write crap? Sure, I got time but otherwise I'm done.
In case that I've been unclear, one more time, I've gotten the answers that I wanted.
So... you're one of those bully wanna-be but you're a little nerd that can't take it outdoors so instead you try your best here? Awww, that is so sad.
+1
Ha! Ha ! Ha!. Oh man, I can't stop laughing....
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+1
Ha! Ha ! Ha!. Oh man, I can't stop laughing....
Hahaha, oh man, you can't stop writing...
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This thread needs bewbies
[youtube]WNDlf6hA6TY[/youtube]
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I can't believe this thread is still chugging along!
If the original intent was to sell some OS3.X users on the advantages of OS4 its failed miserably.
Hilariously so.
So... you're one of those bully wanna-be but you're a little nerd that can't take it outdoors so instead you try your best here? Awww, that is so sad.
I love how as soon as people start posting unflattering sentiments about OS4 with detailed reasoning, it becomes "bullying." It shouldn't be a great surprise that when you ask people who don't use OS4 why they don't use OS4, you're going to get some negative opinions of OS4.
Hahaha, oh man, you can't stop writing...
For being done with this thread, you're awfully chatty ;D
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This thread needs bewbies
[youtube]WNDlf6hA6TY[/youtube]
Thank you, but we already have boobs here.
I've already written what the purpose was. Is it really that hard to read?
Huh?
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Hilariously so.
I love how as soon as people start posting unflattering sentiments about OS4 with detailed reasoning, it becomes "bullying." It shouldn't be a great surprise that when you ask people who don't use OS4 why they don't use OS4, you're going to get some negative opinions of OS4.
For being done with this thread, you're awfully chatty ;D
Yes that is when it becomes bullying. I don't need to say that you whent a little wrong with that statement again, do I? On the other hand you haven't written much worth reading so no suprice there. The interesting part of this thread is that the serious people has answered and left and the... well... crap is left ;) . This is just pure amusement to me. Stupid comments from little unsecure people. Good fun :D .
I am chatty compared to who? i created this thread and as long as someone types I suppose there are a demand for answers. Otherwise I suggest perhaps a new thread? A tea party?
Regarding selling AOS 4 I want to begin with telling you little bullies that I'm sure that those who are serious aren't following this thread anymore and they are clever enough to make up their own mind. That wasn't the purpose of this thread which I've already written several times now, not that it matters when those who are left obiously got a memory of a goldfish.
Bully and goldfish... I guess there could be a connection there.
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goldfish...
I like goldfish.
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You didn't get that either? Well, sorry but there's nothing I can do for you then.
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Bully and goldfish... I guess there could be a connection there.
No, you'll have to "suprice" us and explain that.
And I don't think taking contrary positions to yours is bullying, its an opinion.
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You didn't get that either? Well, sorry but there's nothing I can do for you then.
I'm not the one having communications (and spelling) difficulties.
We should sick Franko on you.
Then you'd experience some true bullying.
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No, you'll have to "suprice" us and explain that.
And I don't think taking contrary positions to yours is bullying, its an opinion.
You have an opinion? You are writing awfully lots of text without any opinions in sight I must say. How about less crap and more to the point then? Not that it matters now since I guess your point are there somewhere in all of what you've written but I guess that I wouldn't care since I can see what kind of person you are.
Good to see who are left. Probably the same people that are trolling in every other thread and mailinglists. Is that the hobby in your lifes? Try AOS 4, it is much more fun ;)
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I'm not the one having communications (and spelling) difficulties.
We should sick Franko on you.
Then you'd experience some true bullying.
Well as long as you get what I'm writing, which is hard to tell since you ask the same questions over and over, yet you reply, it doesn't matter. If it disturbs you just go, noone force you to read what I'm writing.
Yeah, send people on me. Watched to much mafia movies? Or maybe you're living it?
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You keep going Hotrod. You're doing a great job selling the product so far.
BTW - Are you using OS4 right now? And if so, on what browser?
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You keep going Hotrod. You're doing a great job selling the product so far.
BTW - Are you using OS4 right now? And if so, on what browser?
I'm not trying to sell it... did you really miss that reply?
Right now I'm typing this in NetSurf. Yes OS 4.
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The interesting part of this thread is that the serious people has answered and left and the... well... crap is left ;) . This is just pure amusement to me. Stupid comments from little unsecure people. Good fun :D .
Well I'm glad you're having as much fun as I am, because if there's one thing I ain't, it's insecure :D I'm quite brazen about my opinions, flawed or not.
I am chatty compared to who?
You're chatty for someone who's "done with this thread" - you've only made... *checks* seven posts after you said that ;p
How about less crap and more to the point then? Not that it matters now since I guess your point are there somewhere in all of what you've written but I guess that I wouldn't care since I can see what kind of person you are.
Help me out here: how much more to-the-point could we possibly get?
Is that the hobby in your lifes? Try AOS 4, it is much more fun ;)
Buy me a Cyberstorm and a copy of OS4 and I will :P
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I'm not trying to sell it... did you really miss that reply?
Absolutely must have. And whether you realize it or not, you are trying to convince us of your OS' superiority.
Right now I'm typing this in NetSurf. Yes OS 4.
That's cool.
At least you're sincere.
You should try a less combative tone.
We (the non-OS4 using Amiga fans on the site) are not your enemies.
We actually enjoy hearing advocates of different solutions air their arguments.
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Some people want the real Amiga so they can run real Amiga software on real Amiga hardware. OS4 doesn't bring any of that to the table.
Still other reasons include not wanting to associate with developers who want the user community to die in a fire (Rigo for example). That sort of thing.
Rigo? I am not familiar with this example.
My 2 cents,
HyperionOS4.x is a fanatic religion. You are either a believer, and nothing is going to shake your faith in what ever Hyperion does or says, or you are a disbeliever, and do not wear the Rose Colored glasses that come with every sale of HyperionOS4.x. It is truly a shame that the faithful did not win the rights to the "Amiga" trademarks, instead of only the AmigaOS4.x, as now they are plagued with the fact that other companies can and will sell new Amiga computers that will not run HyperionOS4.x.
I am not against them surviving, actually I wish they would have done a better job and had succeeded in creating an OS and hardware that I could afford, believe in, enjoy using, and would want to buy. But with the current management and the decisions already made, and continuing to be made by Hyperion, I have serious doubts about them continuing for much longer. But, like their predecessors before them, they will hang on to their rights to the name AmigaOS4.x and AmigaOne with a death grip for as long as they can make a dime from the few "faithful" that remain.
Just another sad chapter in the long history of the Amiga. It just has to be made into a movie some day. There is too much treachery, incompetence, greed, betrayal, etc., to miss the opportunity for a great story. If only someone could weave a love story through the middle of it (besides the love of the original OS and hardware), it would be an instant box office success.
What about it Pyromania? Do you think DiscreetFX could make a great feature length movie from the Amiga history? An impartial history would be the only way I would want it to be done. Not some slanted Hyperion propaganda (not accusing you of being inclined to slant it towards a favorable Hyperion conclusion, just stating that I would not want anyone to slant the facts)
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Buy me a Cyberstorm and a copy of OS4 and I will :P
Sign me up for THAT deal too!
The last time I checked a CSPPC was more expensive then an Acube motherboard.
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Well I'm glad you're having as much fun as I am, because if there's one thing I ain't, it's insecure :D I'm quite brazen about my opinions, flawed or not.
You're chatty for someone who's "done with this thread" - you've only made... *checks* seven posts after you said that ;p
Help me out here: how much more to-the-point could we possibly get?
Buy me a Cyberstorm and a copy of OS4 and I will :P
Well there you go. You've made your point (which took about 20 posts) and still you're here. That is the point I'm not getting but I'm guessing that you're so... well whatever you are... jealous... bored... crazy... I don't know. what your problem is... that you continue writing anyway. Not interesting to read. No it is not clear why you continue to write, I've read your opinions so you can go do something else. But for some reason you can't, can you?
Oh you can buy my CyberStormPPC but I doubt you can afford it.
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Rigo? I am not familiar with this example.
My 2 cents,
HyperionOS4.x is a fanatic religion. You are either a believer, and nothing is going to shake your faith in what ever Hyperion does or says, or you are a disbeliever, and do not wear the Rose Colored glasses that come with every sale of HyperionOS4.x. It is truly a shame that the faithful did not win the rights to the "Amiga" trademarks, instead of only the AmigaOS4.x, as now they are plagued with the fact that other companies can and will sell new Amiga computers that will not run HyperionOS4.x.
I am not against them surviving, actually I wish they would have done a better job and had succeeded in creating an OS and hardware that I could afford, believe in, enjoy using, and would want to buy. But with the current management and the decisions already made, and continuing to be made by Hyperion, I have serious doubts about them continuing for much longer. But, like their predecessors before them, they will hang on to their rights to the name AmigaOS4.x and AmigaOne with a death grip for as long as they can make a dime from the few "faithful" that remain.
Just another sad chapter in the long history of the Amiga. It just has to be made into a movie some day. There is too much treachery, incompetence, greed, betrayal, etc., to miss the opportunity for a great story. If only someone could weave a love story through the middle of it (besides the love of the original OS and hardware), it would be an instant box office success.
WOW! And David is one of our more polite posters.
Whatever purpose you did have in creating this thread Hotrod, I doubt its being served.
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No it is not clear why you continue to write, I've read your opinions so you can go do something else. But for some reason you can't, can you?
I can, I just don't want to, because I find this exchange highly entertaining. Pass the popcorn!
Oh you can buy my CyberStormPPC but I doubt you can afford it.
Hence my entire point.
If only someone could weave a love story through the middle of it (besides the love of the original OS and hardware), it would be an instant box office success.
He's an avant-garde painter.
She's a rock singer who helped popularize rap.
Caught in the middle of the collapse of a tech-industry giant, can they save their relationship?
Coming this summer to a theater near you:
AMIGA: The Warhol/Harry Story.
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WOW! And David is one of our more polite posters.
Whatever purpose you did have in creating this thread Hotrod, I doubt its being served.
It has been served. I've read what you quoted. I'm begining to wonder who I'm talking to though since you ask the same question all the time, what my purpose is even though I've answered every time.
Speaking of which, the way MOS users behave won't bring any new users. This thread doesn't matter what so ever to anyone but your behaviour does so... I'm not worried. You should be but... your asking the same question over and over so maybe that's the reason.
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I can, I just don't want to, because I find this exchange highly entertaining. Pass the popcorn!
Hence my entire point.
He's an avant-garde painter.
She's a rock singer who helped popularize rap.
Caught in the middle of the collapse of a tech-industry giant, can they save their relationship?
Coming this summer to a theater near you:
AMIGA: The Warhol/Harry Story.
Oh, then your point has changed. From nothing to nothing... not bad. Are you typing while eating popcorn? Good thing you don't have a machine runing aos 4 on it, poor thing. Not you, the machine.
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Ah, we're doing all right.
Since the adoption of Mac support, numbers have steadily climbed.
We were here before you and we'll probably outlast you.
He's an avant-garde painter.
She's a rock singer who helped popularize rap.
Caught in the middle of the collapse of a tech-industry giant, can they save their relationship?
Coming this summer to a theater near you:
AMIGA: The Warhol/Harry Story.
That's funny! But can anyone picture Andy Warhol expressing an emotion, let alone love?
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Ah, we're doing all right.
Since the adoption of Mac support, numbers have steadily climbed.
We were here before you and we'll probably outlast you.
He's an avant-garde painter.
She's a rock singer who helped popularize rap.
Caught in the middle of the collapse of a tech-industry giant, can they save their relationship?
Coming this summer to a theater near you:
AMIGA: The Warhol/Harry Story.
That's funny!But can anyone picture Andy Warhol expressing an emotion, let alone love?
"We where here before you"? Ehm... I got my amiga -87 and been a user since then. I also bet I was on this very site before you and the crazy MOS people decided to go on repeat mode *MOS buy, rules, better than everything. AOS 4 bad, bad for everyone in every way* *MOS GOOOOD, AOS 4 BAAAAD* ... This was a better site before that. Higher standard.
I don't have any numbers and I very much doubt that you do so completely pointless like pretty much everything you write.
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"We where here before you"? Ehm... I got my amiga -87 and been a user since then. I also bet I was on this very site before you and the crazy MOS people decided to go on repeat mode *MOS buy, rules, better than everything. AOS 4 bad, bad for everyone in every way* *MOS GOOOOD, AOS 4 BAAAAD* ... This was a better site before that. Higher standard.
I don't have any numbers and I very much doubt that you do so completely pointless like pretty much everything you write.
Actually, if you'd read anything I've posted here and on other sites, I've always supported all the NG OS'.
I've picked what I thought was the best of them, but I see nothing wrong with an alternate choice.
And actually, I like what Amiga.org has become.
A community with more then one standard to bear and for the most part interacting harmoniously.
Interesting that you find my comments "pointless" as you keep answering them.
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Oh, then your point has changed. From nothing to nothing... not bad. Are you typing while eating popcorn? Good thing you don't have a machine runing aos 4 on it, poor thing. Not you, the machine.
Actually, my point (to wit: too freaking expensive) has been completely constant throughout this entire thread, but there seems to be some sort of spacetime anomaly between the Amiga.org server and your computer that is rearranging the text in my posts so as to make it appear that I have been saying entirely different things.
Because it couldn't be that you're just being willfully ignorant, no sir...
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I don't want to get drawn into the Os4 v MOS argument, but I think its a missed opportunity that the two sides were never able to unite and create one OS to rule them all. Its clear to me that neither has the resources on their own to create a complete Amiga experience thats near enough to being good enough to become a users only platform. FFS, there are people now doing that with Linux (ecch!).
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"We where here before you"? Ehm... I got my amiga -87 ...
In '87 I was the manager of a company that designed, built, and sold 68K based multi-user, multi-tasking computers.
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Actually, my point (to wit: too freaking expensive) has been completely constant throughout this entire thread, but there seems to be some sort of spacetime anomaly between the Amiga.org server and your computer that is rearranging the text in my posts so as to make it appear that I have been saying entirely different things.
Because it couldn't be that you're just being willfully ignorant, no sir...
Yes because I don't know how many times I've written that I've read you point and yet you go on writing commets that are so boring that it almost puts me to sleep. It doesn't take 30 replys to write that the current hardware for AOS 4 are too expensive in your opinion. You're lying, you know it, grow up, do something else.
I read your point the first time, I didn't ask you for some explanation in 30 following replies, you replied anyway because you're an asshole. That is the real and only truth and you aren't even man enough to admit it. Do you see why I think that you are a sad person now?
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I don't want to get drawn into the Os4 v MOS argument, but I think its a missed opportunity that the two sides were never able to unite and create one OS to rule them all. Its clear to me that neither has the resources on their own to create a complete Amiga experience thats near enough to being good enough to become a users only platform. FFS, there are people now doing that with Linux (ecch!).
Remember, this is an argument we didn't start. Our OS predates theirs.
And I've never advocated an adversarial posture.
I like having Hyperion around.
But then, since I'm "pointless" this doesn't really matter.
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Yes because I don't know how many times I've written that I've read you point and yet you go on writing commets that are so boring that it almost puts me to sleep. It doesn't take 30 replys to write that the current hardware for AOS 4 are too expensive in your opinion. You're lying, you know it, grow up, do something else.
I read your point the first time, I didn't ask you for some explanation in 30 following replies, you replied anyway because you're an asshole. That is the real and only truth and you aren't even man enough to admit it. Do you see why I think that you are a sad person now?
Wait, you think I'm lying about having restated my same point while at the same time accusing me of restating my same point? I have to investigate these new paradox powers I've suddenly developed...
Also, I freely admit to being an asshole and have never made any secret of my assholery.
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Actually, if you'd read anything I've posted here and on other sites, I've always supported all the NG OS'.
I've picked what I thought was the best of them, but I see nothing wrong with an alternate choice.
And actually, I like what Amiga.org has become.
A community with more then one standard to bear and for the most part interacting harmoniously.
Interesting that you find my comments "pointless" as you keep answering them.
I find amigaworld.net more interesting, it also has different users but without as much "MOS GOOOD, AOS 4 BAAAAD" which is nice for a change from the past ten years. Gets a bit old.
No I found it entertaining for a while, not interesting or anything but that was about it. You're not making any points any more, you try to make me upset and it doesn't work. I like AOS 4 a lot but I also have a life you know. Life goes on without it too and I think it's sane to have that in mind. Those who I call sad are geting really upset if you say anything wrong about... well MOS... or anything that is negative... or not even that, they get mad if you talk about AOS 4 without mentioning MOS. That is not sane behaviour to me.
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Wait, you think I'm lying about having restated my same point while at the same time accusing me of restating my same point? I have to investigate these new paradox powers I've suddenly developed...
Also, I freely admit to being an asshole and have never made any secret of my assholery.
And your whole "assholery" is your only purpose of typing in this thread and it has allways been been your purpose and that is why I give you the answers that I do. As simple as that and you know it. And that is the sad part.
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Also, I freely admit to being an asshole and have never made any secret of my assholery.
Frankly sir, I congratulate you on that.
Everyone's got to have a hobby, and that one can be a worthwhile one if you do it well.
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And your whole "assholery" is your only purpose of typing in this thread and it has allways been been your purpose and that is why I give you the answers that I do. As simple as that and you know it. And that is the sad part.
Not so! I was completely sincere for the first ten posts, and even after that it hasn't been my sole purpose, just one of 'em - I still maintain complete sincerity about my point even while I snicker derisively at your inability to stop responding.
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I find amigaworld.net more interesting, it also has different users but without as much "MOS GOOOD, AOS 4 BAAAAD" which is nice for a change from the past ten years. Gets a bit old.
No I found it entertaining for a while, not interesting or anything but that was about it. You're not making any points any more, you try to make me upset and it doesn't work. I like AOS 4 a lot but I also have a life you know. Life goes on without it too and I think it's sane to have that in mind. Those who I call sad are geting really upset if you say anything wrong about... well MOS... or anything that is negative... or not even that, they get mad if you talk about AOS 4 without mentioning MOS. That is not sane behaviour to me.
Oh now that's just not true.
I've been on AmigaWorld and there's just as much bias there.
And you're the only one posting negative comments about MorphOS.
Just because OS4 can't stand up to a comparison with MOS without falling on its face, you resort to personal attacks and insults.
I like discussing OS4 and wholly believe it could have a future.
I'm just wondering why the users are always on the defensive or the offensive.
Objectivity does not seem to be the average OS4 users forte.
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Remember, this is an argument we didn't start. Our OS predates theirs.
And I've never advocated an adversarial posture.
I like having Hyperion around.
But then, since I'm "pointless" this doesn't really matter.
You wanna win a competition? Spend some time digging up every thread you can where MOS users behaves pretty much like in this very thread, in plain english as complete jerks to say the least.
Do the same with threads from any other "camp" that you want to. Then you compare them and see which one builds the highest pile of shit. I already know the answer and so do you no matter what you say.
You know... OMG... what's in your head? You're completely brainwashed.
Let me put it like this... you as a prime example of MOS users: Insane. Like talking to a wall who doesn't understand anything other than *MOS GOOD, AOS 4 BAD*... really.. it never gets any different, better... do you even realize how it sounds? And really how can you go on doing this for 10 years and counting? I would be so bored with myself that I would have comited suicide long time ago. It is SO SAD. I don't get this behaviour at amigaworld.net even if someone talks about MOS... like a normal person that is without *MOS GOOOD; AOS 4 BAAAD* . Noone in their right mind wants to hear that and not for 10 years.
Is that how it works, you brainwash people by saying the same things over and over, completely making the person reading it unable to think, buy MOS and then being so messed up that he can't use it?
Wow... look where it has gotten you in 10 years. You know with all the macs available that you brag about you should be the biggest camp by far but I'm pretty sure that you scare more people away than you realize and that my friend is your problem.
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@ All
Ach fur gawds sake geeza brek wid ye... :furious:
I dunno, I pop out into the real world for just one day (and yes it's still there, just outside me front door) and come back to find World War OS 3 Vs 4 has broken out... :(
Calm down ladies & gents, take a long slow deep breath and hold it for about 2 day's and you'll find all is right with the world and fairies do exist... :)
You'd never catch me getting involved in such childish and silly arguments... no siree, not me, never... :)
(I usually just start them and then bugger off and watch the fur fly with a nice bag of popcorn, pancakes & Pepsi (Don't like Coke... :( Pepsi rulez ... :))
PS: Me dog just died (yet again) I demand a refund... :(
Oh look a nice shiny silver teaspoon... where me polish... my bum just fell off... 2 plus 2 makes a boiled egg... waaay down upon the swanee river... I did it myyyyy waaaaaaay... :)
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The truth hurts those holding the short stick and some of them just can't stand hearing or reading the truth, so they are reduced to being like HotRod. Sad little men with a complex that feel compelled to lash out with insults and lies.
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*MOS GOOD, AOS 4 BAD*
You keep repeating that, but I don't think I've ever said anything like that.
I guess if I had thousands tied up in underpowered computer hardware and software, I'd be defensive too.
If you guys are this bad with only the SAMs to tout (unless you count the Pegasos, a MorphOS machine, which is your highest performer), how bad is it going to get when the X1000 is finally introduced?
If a G5 Mac outperforms it, can you get whinier still?
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The truth hurts those holding the short stick and some of them just can't stand hearing or reading the truth, so they are reduced to being like HotRod. Sad little men with a complex that feel compelled to lash out with insults and lies.
Using my own words against me now too? How can it be lies? Are you the biggest camp? Has your way of acting attracted a huge user-base over 10 years (you where first, remember)? No it isn't lies, but yes it is sad, very sad.
Anyway time for bed. Have a good night sleep, I know I will :)
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@ All
Ach fur gawds sake geeza brek wid ye... :furious:
I dunno, I pop out into the real world for just one day (and yes it's still there, just outside me front door) and come back to find World War OS 3 Vs 4 has broken out... :(
Calm down ladies & gents, take a long slow deep breath and hold it for about 2 day's and you'll find all is right with the world and fairies do exist... :)
You'd never catch me getting involved in such childish and silly arguments... no siree, not me, never... :)
(I usually just start them and then bugger off and watch the fur fly with a nice bag of popcorn, pancakes & Pepsi (Don't like Coke... :( Pepsi rulez ... :))
PS: Me dog just died (yet again) I demand a refund... :(
Oh look a nice shiny silver teaspoon... where me polish... my bum just fell off... 2 plus 2 makes a boiled egg... waaay down upon the swanee river... I did it myyyyy waaaaaaay... :)
Why hello FrankO!
I was wondering how you'd missed the drama.
Try telling Hotrod here that you might consider OS4 on an X1000.
He's convinced we're all conspiring to bully him.
Frankly, I don't think most OS3 users want to move to OS4.
They want a Natami (or other board).
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If you guys are this bad with only the SAMs to tout (unless you count the Pegasos, a MorphOS machine, which is your highest performer), how bad is it going to get when the X1000 is finally introduced?
If a G5 Mac outperforms it, can you get whinier still?
Ooh, I hope we get some benchmarks. I'm gonna laugh myself sick if a $2200 custom box is outperformed by a five-year-old computer you can get for $100-450. (http://www.gainsaver.com/Catalog/List.aspx?&CCode=1015%5eApple&CCode=1026%5ePower+Macintosh&Sort=1&PageMax=40&ACode=G5)
(Or $30-375, if you're willing to take a banged-up case. Says a lot about Apple fans that that's a viable discount approach!)
Edit: Okay, I looked up PA6T benchmarks, and it's going to depend on whether you're using a dual-core/dual-processor Mac or not - still, if you are, it looks like you can outdo that brank-spanking-new X1000 with a $150 used Mac by 25%, as far as DMIPS/MHz goes!
(P.S. Yes, I know that that's not the be-all and end-all of performance measurements - but until the X1000 moves from "real soon now" to "actually out, finally" then it'll just have to do.)
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U Are you the biggest camp?
Actually, we might be.
Hyperion hasn't released any sales numbers.
Anyway time for bed. Have a good night sleep, I know I will :)
Thank god for that as I too am out of here.
Feel free to stop back Hotrod.
We all love a good argument (or an argument anyway).
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@ HotRod
Time to take a break my friend...but honestly, what did you think your thread would have accomplished here of all places:confused:
I agree with you that the usual MOS supporters must always jump in & spam/troll on any OS4 related thread but hey the mods allow it so that's not going to change any time soon here
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*MOS GOOD, AOS 4 BAD*
You keep repeating that, but I don't think I've ever said anything like that.
I guess if I had thousands tied up in underpowered computer hardware and software, I'd be defensive too.
If you guys are this bad with only the SAMs to tout (unless you count the Pegasos, a MorphOS machine, which is your highest performer), how bad is it going to get when the X1000 is finally introduced?
If a G5 Mac outperforms it, can you get whinier still?
My PC and any modern PC outperforms them all so noone buying anything to run either MOS or AOS does it for the sake of raw performance, I thought that was clear by now.
The concusion of what you write is just that, *MOS GOOD, AOS 4 BAAD* . Sure there are lists of text of why but that is the only point you're trying to make all the time and good luck with that, I don't agree.
Also SAMs got PCI-E, faster RAM if I'm not mistaken compared to the Peg 2. And all of those are new which I prefer if I can afford it. The option of buying a secons hand sam, amigaone, pegasos 2 isn't all that bad if you're short on money and otherwise you can buy something new which always feels better when it comes to computers.
And really, I couldn't care less. If the MOS team had a X1000 coming up I would've very much wanted one. Actually I wouldn't even mind if you did, it's not the OS that I have issues with it is some of its users. This is like a sect or something.
Like I wrote, you only makes it worse on yourselves. If you where... well friendly, open minded and... normal(?) then MOS would've been much more appealing. As it is now and has been for the past 10 years I wouldn't want to be a part of that community even if I got the hardware and OS for free and as you can see by the size of your userbase I'm not alone. Good luck and good night :-)
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Why hello FrankO!
I was wondering how you'd missed the drama.
Try telling Hotrod here that you might consider OS4 on an X1000.
He's convinced we're all conspiring to bully him.
Frankly, I don't think most OS3 users want to move to OS4.
They want a Natami (or other board).
@ Hotrod
It's dolly dimple... OS3 rules ya bass... :D
@ TheRestOfYou
Stop picking on Hotrod he can't help his disposition, being an OS4 supporter is an incurable ailment and is beyond the scope of modern day medicine... :(
Sufferers of OS4eitis should be treated with warmth and compassion by those of us with an extra brain cell and OS3.x (or skelped across the napper with a big wooden mallet, the choice is yours)... :)
Now watch, listen & learn... me I'm off to bed... night night... :)
[youtube]2K8_jgiNqUc[/youtube]
[youtube]Zjz16xjeBAA&feature=relmfu[/youtube]
[youtube]N-isGzfYUZ4&feature=relmfu[/youtube]
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Ooh, I hope we get some benchmarks. I'm gonna laugh myself sick if a $2200 custom box is outperformed by a five-year-old computer you can get for $100-450. (http://www.gainsaver.com/Catalog/List.aspx?&CCode=1015%5eApple&CCode=1026%5ePower+Macintosh&Sort=1&PageMax=40&ACode=G5)
(Or $30-375, if you're willing to take a banged-up case. Says a lot about Apple fans that that's a viable discount approach!)
I would like to see those benchmarks too, but I am pretty sure how the results are going to stack up already. A X1000 @2.0GHz running AOS4.x will lose against a 5 or 6 year old PowerMac G5 @2.7GHz running MorphOS2.x in every category. I think it will lose to the G5 even if the clock rates are the same, due to the superiority of the performance of MorphOS2.x over AOS4.x, but we will have to wait and see (and it may be a long wait).
Well, if you are going to pay the "Apple Tax", you want your G4, or G5 system to be "puuuurrrrrty", don't you? That fancy Apple engineering & design is worth as much as the old PPC systems that are inside, so if you are going to purchase an old Mac, you want it to look good, as the money spent surely is not practical, compared to the performance you could get from any Intel system of the generic variety.
I should know, I just swapped G5 tower cases to put my dual 2.7GHz G5 system into a nicer case that had previously had a dual 2.0GHz G5 system inside of it. Now I am patiently waiting for the completion of MorphOS2.25 that will support the G5 systems. Since we are only at version 2.7 now, I am ready for a long wait.
Anyone want to buy a slightly scuffed dual 2.0GHz G5 PowerMac?
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@ HotRod
Time to take a break my friend...but honestly, what did you think your thread would have accomplished here of all places:confused:
I agree with you that the usual MOS supporters must always jump in & spam/troll on any OS4 related thread but hey the mods allow it so that's not going to change any time soon here
I thought that some would give honest answers and lots would troll and I would say that is exactly what happened. I'm old enough to just be amused of what they write and not care since it is the same peope writing the same things they've always written. On the other hand it is fun to reply only to see some of them get upset.
Anyway it was fun for one night. Must say that NetSurf served me well.
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Anyone want to buy a slightly scuffed dual 2.0GHz G5 PowerMac?
Damn, now you ask! I've got an older model on the way, and I was just going to remove the Brutalist cheese grater from the exterior and put on some nice relaxing plywood anyway...
Then again, I suppose you wouldn't be taking $75 off a $100 price tag for having a dinged case now, would you ;)
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@ HotRod
Time to take a break my friend...but honestly, what did you think your thread would have accomplished here of all places:confused:
I agree with you that the usual MOS supporters must always jump in & spam/troll on any OS4 related thread but hey the mods allow it so that's not going to change any time soon here
the mods allow it
Actually they don't allow spamming.
And they will flag you for inappropriate language if there is a complaint (but assholery just isn't enough of a serious insult to consider that).
If you can't take valid points, if your OS of choice is the weakest alternative (but it's the 'official' AmigaOS), then don't post questions related to it.
Its as stupid as defending Bill McEwen.
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Damn, now you ask! I've got an older model on the way, and I was just going to remove the Brutalist cheese grater from the exterior and put on some nice relaxing plywood anyway...
Then again, I suppose you wouldn't be taking $75 off a $100 price tag for having a dinged case now, would you ;)
No, my case is not really in bad shape. It just has a few more scuff marks than I liked and since I had a better case with the dual 2.0GHz model, I just decided to swap them. Both cases are in pretty good shape, with no dents, or real dings in them. I have seen some really abused G5 cases on eBay and makes me wonder what the hell those owners were doing with their computers to get them in that bad of shape. Personally, I like the G5 "cheese grater" case looks, but for it's size and weight, there is less room inside than I would like. The older G4 PowerMac case I have has lots more room inside, is easier to work on since the motherboard flops down when you open it up and does not have the PSU positioned under a potentially dangerous leaking coolant system. The G4 plastic case is not as stylish as the aluminum G5 case, but it is much better in many other ways. If the G4, or G5 motherboards were a standard size and layout, I would probably move both systems into a custom case that I liked better. (I am typing this message from the dual 2.7GHz G5 system that I find preferable to my x86 Quad Core box sitting right next to it).
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No, my case is not really in bad shape. It just has a few more scuff marks than I liked and since I had a better case with the dual 2.0GHz model, I just decided to swap them. Both cases are in pretty good shape, with no dents, or real dings in them. I have seen some really abused G5 cases on eBay and makes me wonder what the hell those owners were doing with their computers to get them in that bad of shape. Personally, I like the G5 "cheese grater" case looks, but for it's size and weight, there is less room inside than I would like. The older G4 PowerMac case I have has lots more room inside, is easier to work on since the motherboard flops down when you open it up and does not have the PSU positioned under a potentially dangerous leaking coolant system. The G4 plastic case is not as stylish as the aluminum G5 case, but it is much better in many other ways. If the G4, or G5 motherboards were a standard size and layout, I would probably move both systems into a custom case that I liked better. (I am typing this message from the dual 2.7GHz G5 system that I find preferable to my x86 Quad Core box sitting right next to it).
Have fun with your old macs. Oh and lets hope that the old and slow gfxcards doesn't break, a new is expensive. The same goes for the cpu and even the clock battery. Can't take what? I have not one single issue with any of the comments here. They are stupid and makes me laugh. I got a powermac by the way. There are a video at youtube showing why macos x is better on the same hardware. Check it out :-) . Oh and I tried it on my amigaone and it worked fine. Good night loooosers :-)
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the mods allow it
Actually they don't allow spamming.
And they will flag you for inappropriate language if there is a complaint (but assholery just isn't enough of a serious insult to consider that).
If you can't take valid points, if your OS of choice is the weakest alternative (but it's the 'official' AmigaOS), then don't post questions related to it.
Its as stupid as defending Bill McEwen.
The only thing stupid is trying to stop people from having a different opinion. That is exactly where the "sad little man" fits in. Close minded and truely religious. It is even beyond stupid but it includes stupidity.
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Have fun with your old macs. Oh and lets hope that the old and slow gfxcards doesn't break, a new is expensive. The same goes for the cpu and even the clock battery.
A new AGP 8x card can be had for as little as $30 - my P4 desktop is using a NOS GeForce 7600 that I got for $60. That's, let's see...2.7% of the cost of an X1000, or 6% the cost of a SAM 460...yeah, it would totally be a disaster if the video card broke, all right.
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A new AGP 8x card can be had for as little as $30 - my P4 desktop is using a NOS GeForce 7600 that I got for $60. That's, let's see...2.7% of the cost of an X1000, or 6% the cost of a SAM 460...yeah, it would totally be a disaster if the video card broke, all right.
A PowerMac got a different version than the PC, don't you know that? What do you know and why do you mention your old PC for?
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It's AGP Pro, which is an official extension to the standard, and it's backwards-compatible with normal AGP. Apple shipped it with (barely) custom cards, but it will work with standard AGP.
Also, I'm seeing a number of AGP Pro cards on Google Product Search for $15-20, so...nope, not seeing this whole "expensive" thing.
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It's AGP Pro, which is an official extension to the standard, and it's backwards-compatible with normal AGP. Apple shipped it with custom cards, but it will work with standard AGP.
Yes but the mac firmware reads the BIOS on the card which must have PPC code. There are recent threads about how you can reflash some old PC graphicscards. Have fun.
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I will, thanks! :D
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It's AGP Pro, which is an official extension to the standard, and it's backwards-compatible with normal AGP. Apple shipped it with (barely) custom cards, but it will work with standard AGP.
Also, I'm seeing a number of AGP Pro cards on Google Product Search for $15-20, so...nope, not seeing this whole "expensive" thing.
Besides... you and noone else here got nothing that you can say that will hurt me, make me sad, make me jelous. These are the reason:
It seems that I got more and better computers than any of you.
Even if AOS 4 should die and the Amiga should vanish I'm fine with that, there are other things in life that are way more important, it is fun while it lasts, if it lasts and I enjoy it, great and if not I use something else.
I can hurt every one of you though because you pray to your MOS gods obviously so I can upset you whenever I want to, it is really easy to do, your nuts IMO. I don't take it that seriously at all.
But like I wrote the fun is over, the serious part of this thread ended a long time ago. And please buy that powermac and mos, you seem to belong there.
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I've never been trying to hurt you or make you jealous - I'm just highly amused by your insecurity. If you enjoy OS4 that's great, have a good time with it. Problem is, you can't accept that other people might not feel OS4 is the best solution for them, so you start an evangelism thread thinly disguised as a question about why people don't switch to it, then get all worked up when people start actually explaining why they don't like it. If you really like OS4 that much, why are you so insecure that you allow other people's disagreement to get to you so much? Just do your own thing and don't worry about whether other people are playing along.
And really, you think you can hurt me? All you've done thus far is make me laugh and give my posting muscles a good workout :D
(And again, I'm not getting MorphOS - because, y'know, I'm not paying good money for an OS when there are equal or better options available for free. But that's okay, since the criteria for "MorphOS user" in your mind seem to consist solely of "doesn't like OS4, and isn't willing to pretend otherwise," I guess you might as well lump me in with your favorite bogeymen.)
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I've never been trying to hurt you or make you jealous - I'm just highly amused by your insecurity. If you enjoy OS4 that's great, have a good time with it. Problem is, you can't accept that other people might not feel OS4 is the best solution for them, so you start an evangelism thread thinly disguised as a question about why people don't switch to it, then get all worked up when people start actually explaining why they don't like it. If you really like OS4 that much, why are you so insecure that you allow other people's disagreement to get to you so much? Just do your own thing and don't worry about whether other people are playing along.
And really, you think you can hurt me? All you've done thus far is make me laugh and give my posting muscles a good workout :D
(And again, I'm not getting MorphOS - because, y'know, I'm not paying good money for an OS when there are equal or better options available for free. But that's okay, since the criteria for "MorphOS user" in your mind seem to consist solely of "doesn't like OS4, and isn't willing to pretend otherwise," I guess you might as well lump me in with your favorite bogeymen.)
Great, then we have both laughed but really, there's no doubt what you where trying to do even if it didn't work out.
Insecure about what? I really wanted to know since the groups are split in all kinds of directions I expected different answers and that is what i got. You claim that I am things that I'm not, you have really missunderstood the purpose and what actually is hard to grasp is that you still don't understand and still goes on claiming things that is not true.
Regarding doesn't like OS 4, no no no, if you look at the computer marked there would be quite a lot for people for me to not like if that was true. My closest friends all use PCs with all kinds of OSes on it, no problem. I talk to PC and Mac users all the time, no problem. Never anything like the behaviour from the MOS users though.
You claim that I don't grasp what you write but can't you see that it is the other way around? I tell you right here that you are wrong, what the perpose was. What is so hard to understand?
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the mods allow it
...If you can't take valid points, if your OS of choice is the weakest alternative (but it's the 'official' AmigaOS), then don't post questions related to it.
cough cough..your trolling tactics won't work here.
the point is that this thread is about OS3 and OS4 and not about MOS so please have the courtesy to start a new thread about why you think OS3 users should jump to MOS:confused:
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Iggy: He started it!
Hotrod: No, HE started it!
Iggy: He started it!
Hotrod: No, HE started it!
Iggy: That's not fair!
Hotrod: That's it. I'm telling mommy!
Too funny! :roflmao:
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Iggy: He started it!
Hotrod: No, HE started it!
Iggy: He started it!
Hotrod: No, HE started it!
Iggy: That's not fair!
Hotrod: That's it. I'm telling mommy!
Too funny! :roflmao:
Thanks Kesa.
I don't even remember advocating moving from OS3 to MOS. I just responded to some negative comments.
As far as I'm concerned you can use whatever you want.
Just don't make statement you're not willing to back up, then whine that the moderators aren't cutting other people off when they disagree with you.
That's childish.
I really did hit the sack right after my last post.
I've got to check out theOS3>MOS thread.
There's probably something there to get bent about.
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@ All
Ach fur gawds sake geeza brek wid ye... :furious:
I dunno, I pop out into the real world for just one day (and yes it's still there, just outside me front door) and come back to find World War OS 3 Vs 4 has broken out... :(
Calm down ladies & gents, take a long slow deep breath and hold it for about 2 day's and you'll find all is right with the world and fairies do exist... :)
You'd never catch me getting involved in such childish and silly arguments... no siree, not me, never... :)
(I usually just start them and then bugger off and watch the fur fly with a nice bag of popcorn, pancakes & Pepsi (Don't like Coke... :( Pepsi rulez ... :))
PS: Me dog just died (yet again) I demand a refund... :(
Oh look a nice shiny silver teaspoon... where me polish... my bum just fell off... 2 plus 2 makes a boiled egg... waaay down upon the swanee river... I did it myyyyy waaaaaaay... :)
Hi,
@Franko,
There ain't no war, OS 3.0 rulz over OS 4, it is faster, it multi-tasks better, and is just plain usable. Been playing with OS 4 now for 3 days and soliton works as long as I don't try to play a mod or music. OS 3.? plays megaball and OS4.0 don't. As far as I am concerned the war is over OS 3.? is still the reining champion.
We definitely know fairies exist, look at all the people on Amiga.org and some of these people we wish would hold there breath forever.
Yes we know you don't argue at all just don't hold your breath on this one
You make me jealous pancakes, I can only have one with sugar free syrup, but I love diet pepsi and like you said pepsi rulez.
Hey if you have such good luck with dogs, I have one to send you, he is a little jack russel, loves to play, and play and play and play, and if you don't play, he loves to nip, steal your stuff, nip and steal your stuff, and if you don't catch him when he steals your stuff, he loves to chew.
you did it your way, What did you do? FART
smerf
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Thanks Kesa.
Iggy sez ==>I don't even remember advocating moving from OS3 to MOS. I just responded to some negative comments.
smerf sez ==> He is getting so bad on MOS that he doesn't even really notice. (maybe time for meds).
Iggy sez ==> As far as I'm concerned you can use whatever you want.
smerf sez ==> As long as it is MOS on a MAC
Iggy sez ==> Just don't make statement you're not willing to back up, then whine that the moderators aren't cutting other people off when they disagree with you.
That's childish.
smerf sez ==> a lot of people accuse me of backing up to hard and being a hard head.
Iggy sez ==> I really did hit the sack right after my last post.
smerf sez ==> Thank God for small miracles
Iggy sez ==.I've got to check out theOS3>MOS thread.
smerf sez ==> Oh no he's back and here we go again.
Iggy sez ==> There's probably something there to get bent about.
smerf sez ==> Here is the kicker, wait till he reads this.
Have a nice day Iggy
smerf
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Thanks Kesa.
Iggy sez ==>I don't even remember advocating moving from OS3 to MOS. I just responded to some negative comments.
smerf sez ==> He is getting so bad on MOS that he doesn't even really notice. (maybe time for meds).
Iggy sez ==> As far as I'm concerned you can use whatever you want.
smerf sez ==> As long as it is MOS on a MAC
Iggy sez ==> Just don't make statement you're not willing to back up, then whine that the moderators aren't cutting other people off when they disagree with you.
That's childish.
smerf sez ==> a lot of people accuse me of backing up to hard and being a hard head.
Iggy sez ==> I really did hit the sack right after my last post.
smerf sez ==> Thank God for small miracles
Iggy sez ==.I've got to check out theOS3>MOS thread.
smerf sez ==> Oh no he's back and here we go again.
Iggy sez ==> There's probably something there to get bent about.
smerf sez ==> Here is the kicker, wait till he reads this.
Have a nice day Iggy
smerf
Guilty as charged!
Am I now about to be sentenced to an eternity in hell with only OS4 as an operating system?
I still like the pancake on the rabbit, Smerf.
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Hi,
@Iggy,
We couldn't do that to you OS 4.X is to horrible for anyone.
Maybe we could hook up magnetic to 4.X
smerf
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Hahahahahahahahahaaa, what a bunch of babies :D . This is kindergarten level. The comments and the new thread. Making a protest like a little child. Oh well I guess that it is what I expected. The brain hasn't developed since the age of five :D . Are you asking your mom to read this too? :p
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+1
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Hi,
@Iggy,
We couldn't do that to you OS 4.X is to horrible for anyone.
Maybe we could hook up magnetic to 4.X
smerf
Nah, Smerf,
We couldn't do that to mag even after the childish back and forth with Franko. He not really that bad a guy.
Hahahahahahahahahaaa, what a bunch of babies :D . This is kindergarten level. The comments and the new thread. Making a protest like a little child. Oh well I guess that it is what I expected. The brain hasn't developed since the age of five :D . Are you asking your mom to read this too? :p
Hey! Toad boy! You're awake! Greetings.
The second thread was started by one of your allies and quickly spun off into a discussion of OS4.
Btw - How old did you say you were? The level of your comments makes your age suspect.
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I'd like to know why people using AOS 3 doesn't jump on the AOS 4 train?
I didn't know there was a 68K release of 4.x?
Now I'm sure that some MOS users
What does MOS have to do with this?
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I didn't know there was a 68K release of 4.x?
Ha! would you use it if it was?
What does MOS have to do with this?
Something about MOS users being the hellborne spawn of Satan (or something like that I think). More paranoid rantings from the OS4 crowd that we always spoil their party.
I think its OS envy.
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Nah, Smerf,
We couldn't do that to mag even after the childish back and forth with Franko. He not really that bad a guy.
Hey! Toad boy! You're awake! Greetings.
The second thread was started by one of your allies and quickly spun off into a discussion of OS4.
Btw - How old did you say you were? The level of your comments makes your age suspect.
Suspect you say. Hard to understand perhaps. A clue is that it is related to my comment :-)
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I didn't know there was a 68K release of 4.x?
What does MOS have to do with this?
And I never said it did which answers your first question. To the other question the answer is that There where mentions, comments and questions from users that wasn't relevant to the question so I felt the need to reply. Now I'm sure that you're able to both read and understand everything that's been written in this topic and because of it your questions are asked to annoy or troll and serves no other perpose other than a new user who wanna present himself as the latest addition to a group of sheep that got nothing better to do than write nonsense on the web. Wellcome
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Something about MOS users being the hellborne spawn of Satan (or something like that I think). More paranoid rantings from the OS4 crowd that we always spoil their party.
every religion needs a devil ;)
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Ha! would you use it if it was?
Something about MOS users being the hellborne spawn of Satan (or something like that I think). More paranoid rantings from the OS4 crowd that we always spoil their party.
I think its OS envy.
Nah, I think it's more about the boredom that we feel from the retarted comments we have to deal with. Since it only commes from one side all the time it's obvious who are jealous. Not a single mention about mos unless a mos users interupts with the usual "mos good, good, aos 4 bad, bad I say". Not that it has ever done you anything good but again it clearly shows who are jealous, even you should understand that.
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Summary: MOS is better than AOS 4 but neither runs on a classic Amiga in stock configuration, so the point is rather moot.
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every religion needs a devil ;)
Ah well, then I guess I'll take that role. The devil you know being preferable to the God you will never fathom.
Btw - How old do YOU think Hotrod is?
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Summary: MOS is better than AOS 4 but neither runs on a classic Amiga in stock configuration, so the point is rather moot.
Good point , SC!
In fact, neither runs that well on an enhanced Amiga. So if you replace the handle and the head is your grandfathers axe still an Amiga?
We don't make that pretense.
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Ah well, then I guess I'll take that role. The devil you know being preferable to the God you will never fathom.
Btw - How old do YOU think Hotrod is?
Well for you to be the devil you need to be smart which I haven't seen any proof of yet. Hm... a group of people joining forces against one person... bullies! Bullies are allways messed up and very insecure people. Most of them stop when they grow up though and gets mature, but some stays inmature for the rest of their lives. Must say that I'm glad I'm not part of any of that. Like I wrote in anothet threat, the bullies of amiga and amiga alike operating systems are a new kind of geeky. It beats pretty much any kind of geek there is. So if you're number one at something it would be that. The übergeek!
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nimnimnimnimnimnimnimnimnimnimnimnim
What is so hard to understand?
CJ didn't get where he is today by not understanding thinly disguised evangelism you know.
I'm off for the better part of 2 months and all this happens...
And I'll stick with 3.x until AROS-68k comes of age. That fpga Arcade board really does look rather tasty. None of that ghastly PPC nonsense for me my lad!
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CJ didn't get where he is today by not understanding thinly disguised evangelism you know.
I'm off for the better part of 2 months and all this happens...
And I'll stick with 3.x until AROS-68k comes of age. That fpga Arcade board really does look rather tasty. None of that ghastly PPC nonsense for me my lad!
Mike's board does look interesting.
But what do I know? Hotrod says I'm a retard and I'm using "that ghastly PPC nonsense". ;)
Since I graduated College with Honors I'm not too worried about Hotrod's opinion, but the PPC thing seems shaky at times (I already lost the bet when I was working with 68K hardware).
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Mike's board does look interesting.
But what do I know? Hotrod says I'm a retard and I'm using "that ghastly PPC nonsense". ;)
Well clearly, next you'll start extolling the benefits of that damned Bolshevik DMA malarky! ;)
Since I graduated College with Honors I'm not too worried about Hotrod's opinion, but the PPC thing seems shaky at times (I already lost the bet when I was working with 68K hardware).
Tbh having read the calm, reasoned explanations in answer to the original question, even by people I'd usually class as hardline MOS users, I was astonished at the flailing headstick response from the OP. Gratz on the graduation.
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@ TheLeander
:roflmao:
Haven't heard someone getting a good "nimnimnim" in ages, nice one I'd actually forgotten about that one... :D
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@ TheLeander
:roflmao:
Haven't heard someone getting a good "nimnimnim" in ages, nice one I'd actually forgotten about that one... :D
:lol:
Ta, I'm surprised you didn't pick up on the reference to CJ though :D
Just call me Reggie ;)
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Hello!
I'd like to know why people using AOS 3 doesn't jump on the AOS 4 train? What is holding you back exactly?
$2000 motherboards.
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@hotrod
What you expect starting a true troll thread?
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:lol:
Ta, I'm surprised you didn't pick up on the reference to CJ though :D
Just call me Reggie ;)
To be honest I wasn't sure if that's what you meant or if you were referring to some member here called CJ that I hadn't noticed before... (must be going senile)... :)
I'll just leave me clothes on the beach now and head off into the sea... ;)
[youtube]6J4PGiJl2dQ&feature=related[/youtube]
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I haven't used OS 4.0 Classic so I wouldn't know but from what I've read lots of people was dissapointed and that's a shame, really. Hmm... What about giving it another try then? Like I said I'm happy with it on my amigaone and people seems to be enjoying it on their SAMs.
Hi,
@HotRod,
I have a classic Amiga 1200, no graphics card, so I am stuck running OS 4.1 on it in AGA mode. I also have a Blizzard PPC 240 mhz for OS 4.1. which takes approximately 2 and one half minutes to load up almost 1 minute slower than windows XP. Now on my A1200 running on OS 3.9 it boots up in 30 seconds and can run Aminet 18 modplayer while I play one of my favorite games Soliton (I pick this game because it is on both OS's) If I try to play Aminet 18 on OS 4.1 the modplayer freezes up the system on loading, but I have mods that I have transferred over and play them on OS 4.1's SimplePlay. Now listening to my mods with SimplePlay and running Soliton is like slow, the system just can't handle it. Constant freeze ups and constant stalling with the cards. I do not have this problem with OS 3.9.
Now I don't know what an AmigaOne can do because I really don't like buying old archaic junk. PPC's to me are old archaic and dead. The reason I have my PPC is because I bought it when I thought the PPC's where going to be the thing of the future for the Amiga back in 1995 (if I remember right) I paid $399 for it at Software Hut. Heck it has been so long I may even be wrong on the price. Then I waited for OS 4.0 to come out, then when it did come out my Amiga was in storage in the Attic, since I had to move to Pennsyltucky with my job. So now that I have it and now that I have used it I am highly disappointed with the PPC's operation, multi-tasking and sound reproduction. As I said I cannot rate the AmigaOne because it to is an orphan computer. I wanted to say dead but some people still have them and use them. Will I put OS 3.0 back on my A1200, for now no, I have my A4000 using OS 3.9, and my A1200 will run OS 4.1 for now, so I can see what it will do.
smerf
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Hi,
@HotRod,
I have a classic Amiga 1200, no graphics card, so I am stuck running OS 4.1 on it in AGA mode. I also have a Blizzard PPC 240 mhz for OS 4.1. which takes approximately 2 and one half minutes to load up almost 1 minute slower than windows XP. Now on my A1200 running on OS 3.9 it boots up in 30 seconds and can run Aminet 18 modplayer while I play one of my favorite games Soliton (I pick this game because it is on both OS's) If I try to play Aminet 18 on OS 4.1 the modplayer freezes up the system on loading, but I have mods that I have transferred over and play them on OS 4.1's SimplePlay. Now listening to my mods with SimplePlay and running Soliton is like slow, the system just can't handle it. Constant freeze ups and constant stalling with the cards. I do not have this problem with OS 3.9.
Now I don't know what an AmigaOne can do because I really don't like buying old archaic junk. PPC's to me are old archaic and dead. The reason I have my PPC is because I bought it when I thought the PPC's where going to be the thing of the future for the Amiga back in 1995 (if I remember right) I paid $399 for it at Software Hut. Heck it has been so long I may even be wrong on the price. Then I waited for OS 4.0 to come out, then when it did come out my Amiga was in storage in the Attic, since I had to move to Pennsyltucky with my job. So now that I have it and now that I have used it I am highly disappointed with the PPC's operation, multi-tasking and sound reproduction. As I said I cannot rate the AmigaOne because it to is an orphan computer. I wanted to say dead but some people still have them and use them. Will I put OS 3.0 back on my A1200, for now no, I have my A4000 using OS 3.9, and my A1200 will run OS 4.1 for now, so I can see what it will do.
smerf
Well stated Smerf.
My Mac boots MorphOS in slightly more then 30 seconds. I don't know what OS4 can do on something faster (like a SAM), but on a legacy system both MorphOS and OS4 are of questionable value.
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To be honest I wasn't sure if that's what you meant or if you were referring to some member here called CJ that I hadn't noticed before... (must be going senile)... :)
CJ - CommodoreJohn
I just thought it a bit of a laugh to tie the two together :D
I'll just leave me clothes on the beach now and head off into the sea... ;)
[youtube]6J4PGiJl2dQ&feature=related[/youtube]
:lol:
Great series :D
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CJ - CommodoreJohn
I just thought it a bit of a laugh to tie the two together :D
:lol:
Great series :D
Ahh... gotcha now... neat... :)
Need to remember to refer to CommodoreJohn as Reggie Perrin from now on... :)
PS:Yup one the best comedy shows ever written... :D
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"We where here before you"?
Yes we were, and it seems a history lesson *was needed* after all:
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2369/5795704853_b722d5d487_z.jpg) (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2369/5795704853_b722d5d487_b.jpg)
An early version of MorphOS was first released to the public in September 2000.
An early version of OS4 was first released to the public in May 2004. Almost *four full years* behind, and by then MorphOS had reached version 1.4 or something like that.
The ones who have been here the longest, is the Amiga users (the left column in the picture), who has been here the whole time.
Ehm... I got my amiga -87 and been a user since then.
Well, I got my Amiga *before* you then :p, and I'm also still here! :) As are many other MorphOS, AROS and OS4 users. I still have a couple of Amigas (2x A1200 and 1x A600). But that wasn't the point.
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Yes we were, and it seems a history lesson *was needed* after all:
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2369/5795704853_b722d5d487_z.jpg) (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2369/5795704853_b722d5d487_b.jpg)
An early version of MorphOS was first released to the public in September 2000.
An early version of OS4 was first released to the public in May 2004. Almost *four full years* behind, and by then MorphOS had reached version 1.4 or something like that.
The ones who have been here the longest, is the Amiga users (the left column in the picture), who has been here the whole time.
Well, I got my Amiga *before* you then :p, and I'm also still here! :) As are many other MorphOS, AROS and OS4 users. I still have a couple of Amigas (2x A1200 and 1x A600). But that wasn't the point.
Aha, I didn't know what you meant by that statement, if you meant here as in being the first to register at amiga.org :P . Sure I know that work began on MOS first, I ran 0.4 on my CSPPC. Like I said, no history lesson needed even though it seems that you're always prepared to give one. Are you sitting there prepared with that picture and some text that you copy and paste in case someone says something not being right about the amiga history?
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The truth hurts those holding the short stick and some of them just can't stand hearing or reading the truth, so they are reduced to being like HotRod. Sad little men with a complex that feel compelled to lash out with insults and lies.
With this thread HotRod must hold some kind of record in how many users one single individual can insult and piss off in one single thread. In retrospect it seems like trolling and provoking was the real purpose of the thread. If so - mission accomplished!
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Aha, I didn't know what you meant by that statement, if you meant here as in being the first to register at amiga.org :P . Sure I know that work began on MOS first, I ran 0.4 on my CSPPC. Like I said, no history lesson needed even though it seems that you're always prepared to give one. Are you sitting there prepared with that picture and some text that you copy and paste in case someone says something not being right about the amiga history?
MorphOS was here a long, long time before OS4. Historical revisionism is a common phenomenon in groups with totalitarian or religious tendencies, and the only way to fight this is with *facts*. So yes, I will provide the true picture whenever you try to push your edited version of history, as you tried a few pages back.
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With this thread HotRod must hold some kind of record in how many users one single individual can insult and piss off in one single thread. In retrospect it seems like trolling and provoking was the real purpose of the thread. If so - mission accomplished!
Nah but as usual the blue trolls couldn't stay off the thread so it was a given, I just took advantage of it.
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Nah but as usual the blue trolls couldn't stay off the thread so it was a given, I just took advantage of it.
Lol. You asked why people on OS3.x hadn't moved over to OS4.x and people from all sides answered your question and quite honestly with the exception of yourself, the "trolls" have been courteous and polite in explaining their thought processes as to why they either kept with 3.x or picked an alternative.
Wilful ignorance sir, you haz it.
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MorphOS was here a long, long time before OS4. Historical revisionism is a common phenomenon in groups with totalitarian or religious tendencies, and the only way to fight this is with *facts*. So yes, I will provide the true picture whenever you try to push your edited version of history, as you tried a few pages back.
You really are thick. I haven't put up any history lessons. Are you taking any drugs? Are you drunk? Or simply a morron?
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Lol. You asked why people on OS3.x hadn't moved over to OS4.x and people from all sides answered your question and quite honestly with the exception of yourself, the "trolls" have been courteous and polite in explaining their thought processes as to why they either kept with 3.x or picked an alternative.
Wilful ignorance sir, you haz it.
Well, everyone not singing the Hyperion OS4 gospel is a "troll", that's their definition of the word as proven many times in this very thread. They themselves have a free pass to behave in the most insulting manners, and calling *others* "troll" while doing it. :rolleyes:
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Yes we were, and it seems a history lesson *was needed* after all:
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2369/5795704853_b722d5d487_z.jpg) (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2369/5795704853_b722d5d487_b.jpg)
An early version of MorphOS was first released to the public in September 2000.
An early version of OS4 was first released to the public in May 2004. Almost *four full years* behind, and by then MorphOS had reached version 1.4 or something like that.
The ones who have been here the longest, is the Amiga users (the left column in the picture), who has been here the whole time.
This diagram is a bit misleading in that it seems to imply that AROS is a derivative of 3.1, MorphOS is a derivative of 3.5 and OS4 is a derivative of 3.9. I'm pretty sure the MorphOS developers have always stated that there's no actual 3.x code in their OS, likewise AROS is a ground-up reimplementation. As far as I recall, there was probably more 3.1 source used as the original foundation of OS4 than any of the later ones.