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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Software Issues and Discussion => Topic started by: Tripitaka on May 29, 2011, 12:05:06 AM
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I've been wondering lately why MorphOS hasn't been ported to the SAM boards. Is this ever going to happen? I think it would be a great thing to see and if the Morph team are confident in the OS they have made perhaps this would be a good way of getting another bit of user base. I'm interested in any comments and opinions anyone else may have on this so have your 5 cents folks and tell us what you think.
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Too small and too costly (on the users end, hence the reason SAM's aren't more widespread) of a market, I suspect.
As a SAM owner, something I'd love to see, though.
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There are too few SAMs sold to make it worthwhile porting. Why divert limited developer time from the Powerbook version (of which there are millions, and readily available very cheaply in the second user market) to SAM which is expensive and has sold only a few hundreds, 90% of whom are OS4.x users who wouldn't ever use MorphOS even if it came free in their cereal never mind pay 150 Euros.
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You might as well give up and lock this thread because ITS NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN. The morphos team devotes developer resources towards Powerbook and G5 not, underpowered custom high priced hw. (anymore lol)
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I agree, it will never happen. The only way it might happen, is if ACube un-bundles AmigaOS4.x from the SAM boards and also pays the MorphOS2.x development team a porting fee to complete a version of MorphOS2.x for any of the SAM boards.
I guess you could say that the SAM boards are already available without AmigaOS4.x through their "Industrial Purchase" program, but I don't know what the minimum number of boards is for such purchases, so it doesn't really apply to Amiga/Morph users that only buy one board at a time.
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I read something similar about the x1000. Trevor Dick and his people sent Morphos a motherboard to try and get them to port over but they didn't want to because the cost would be too high just so a few users could try it out and see if they like it or not. This is significant as the x1000 is significantly more expensive than the Sam is... :)
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I agree, it will never happen. The only way it might happen, is if ACube un-bundles AmigaOS4.x from the SAM boards and also pays the MorphOS2.x development team a porting fee to complete a version of MorphOS2.x for any of the SAM boards.
I guess you could say that the SAM boards are already available without AmigaOS4.x through their "Industrial Purchase" program, but I don't know what the minimum number of boards is for such purchases, so it doesn't really apply to Amiga/Morph users that only buy one board at a time.
hmmmmm... i wonder how much it would cost to port Morphos over to the Sams or the x1000. Any guesses?
Maybe $200000?
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I agree, it will never happen. The only way it might happen, is if ACube un-bundles AmigaOS4.x from the SAM boards and also pays the MorphOS2.x development team a porting fee to complete a version of MorphOS2.x for any of the SAM boards.
I guess you could say that the SAM boards are already available without AmigaOS4.x through their "Industrial Purchase" program, but I don't know what the minimum number of boards is for such purchases, so it doesn't really apply to Amiga/Morph users that only buy one board at a time.
Dave's got the key right here. SAMs are bundled with OS4. The MorphOS development team isn't likely to do a port to a board that guarantee the sale of a copy of Hyperion's OS.
And no one has offered to pay for the port. Not going to happen.
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I read something similar about the x1000. Trevor Dick and his people sent Morphos a motherboard to try and get them to port over but they didn't want to because the cost would be too high just so a few users could try it out and see if they like it or not. This is significant as the x1000 is significantly more expensive than the Sam is... :)
I asked Piru about that. He says they never received a board.
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People buy SAM boards or systems because they want to run AmigaOS4.1 and are not interested in MorphOS2.7, or are more interested in AmigaOS4.1 than they are in MorphOS2.7. If they were interested in running MorphOS2.7, they could buy a much cheaper system to run it on that is 2 to 5 times faster than the SAM boards.
Just makes no sense for the MorphOS Dev. Team to support the SAM boards, unless someone wants to run MorphOS2.x on a SAM so badly that they are willing to pay for the port. I have no idea what the MorphOS Dev. Team would charge.
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I asked Piru about that. He says they never received a board.
I'm not surprised. Has anyone received a board yet? Have they made any yet? What about the beta testers?
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I'm not surprised. Has anyone received a board yet? Have they made any yet? What about the beta testers?
I think they recently claimed the first five had been made.
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You might as well give up and lock this thread because ITS NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN. The morphos team devotes developer resources towards Powerbook and G5 not, underpowered custom high priced hw. (anymore lol)
In what sense the Powerbook and G5 macs are not underpowered custom high priced hw?
So if you buy Sam, you pay for AmigaOS 4.... What's so bad about it? When you buy Powerbook and G5 macs you are paying for MacOS X, or not? Can you buy a Mac without Apple's OS price attached to it?
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In what sense the Powerbook and G5 macs are not underpowered custom high priced hw?
They once were highpriced but I've got:
1.67GHz 15" PowerBook
2x2.3GHz PowerMac-G5
2.1GHz iMac-G5 (20")
All in good condition, all 3 combined still cheaper than 1 SAM-460 board (not to speak about a full system). And offcourse any of these will blow the SAM out of the water performance wise so the "underpowered" part doesn't really cut.
So if you buy Sam, you pay for AmigaOS 4.... What's so bad about it? When you buy Powerbook and G5 macs you are paying for MacOS X, or not? Can you buy a Mac without Apple's OS price attached to it?
Technicly none of the 3 Macs came with install media, and even if they would have it would have been Tiger (maybe even Panther on the Dual-G5) so that not really any value...
But thats not the point, those Macs have an attractive bang/buck ratio just as they are and the SAM's would be a little less unattractive if one could substract 100Euro (give or take) for OS4.
Not that it would help selling 700Euro motherboard when better performing full systems are available starting at 100Euro.
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G4/G5 Macs underpowered? The top models easily run circles around all Sam models... and I'd say "custom" isn't an appopriate words after you've sold millions of each model. This is also one of the primary reasons why we won't look at Samanthas or X1000 - these boards will never beat the availability of the 2nd hand Macs.
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You might as well give up and lock this thread because ITS NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN. The morphos team devotes developer resources towards Powerbook and G5 not, underpowered custom high priced hw. (anymore lol)
*** I would rather see AmigaOS (whatever it is now) ported to mac hardware. ***
I may be biased because I already have a G4 mac mini and a PowerBook5,8.
The mac mini I bought new (from apple) $600. Even cheaper than this custom ATX developer board stuff new. I'm not going to compare the specs because that is like watching a Chevrolet Vega race a Ford Pinto.
The other one was free but needed some new bits...
I don't want big box ATX PCs anymore. They are the dinosaur like the mainframe.
The only advantage I see to the SAM and X1000 is that if somebody broke in, they would probably not steal it unless it was only electronic item you owned. (No Xbox, PS2, etc.)
I suppose, if the future world is some sort of apocalyptic Max Maxx radioactive nightmare, and computer users are required to hack their own computers together using old ATX motherboards, vacuum tubes, and other parts they collect while scurrying through the vast wastelands, then I'll wont be so picky as I enjoy my BBQ possum and my potassium iodine pill.
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I've been wondering lately why MorphOS hasn't been ported to the SAM boards. Is this ever going to happen? I think it would be a great thing to see and if the Morph team are confident in the OS they have made perhaps this would be a good way of getting another bit of user base. I'm interested in any comments and opinions anyone else may have on this so have your 5 cents folks and tell us what you think.
Yes!
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They once were highpriced but I've got:
1.67GHz 15" PowerBook
2x2.3GHz PowerMac-G5
2.1GHz iMac-G5 (20")
All in good condition, all 3 combined still cheaper than 1 SAM-460 board (not to speak about a full system).
Whatever price you paid (you got screwed btw), similar speced PC machine is much cheaper. The question is why MorphOS is not available for the cheaper hardware if their goal is to have their OS on cheaper, off the shelf, easily available hardware?
P.S. It's hard to find Macs here and the one's I found are terribly expensive/outdated.
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I've been wondering lately why MorphOS hasn't been ported to the SAM boards. Is this ever going to happen? I think it would be a great thing to see and if the Morph team are confident in the OS they have made perhaps this would be a good way of getting another bit of user base. I'm interested in any comments and opinions anyone else may have on this so have your 5 cents folks and tell us what you think.
Why, what's the point? Sam is ridiculously overpriced and underpowered, which is why there aren't many out there. Even the Pegasos 2 was cheaper and much more powerful than a Sam, and that was many years ago. And today a Mac Mini that can be close to 2x the speed of the Pegasos 2 costs about $150 (http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p5197.m570.l1311&_nkw=mac+mini+g4&_sacat=See-All-Categories) (+/- $50). Better add support for the other PPC Mac model's that makes sense (Powerbook, PowerMac G5, iBook G5), and then migrate to a CPU architecture that has a pulse...
:)
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@drHirudo
The various Mac PPC models is as much mainstream, easily available desktop HW as the PPC ever had. There is nothing else, it's as simple as that. Nothing better and nothing cheaper than the Mac HW. I'm sure you know that MorphOS doesn't (yet at least) run on x86 or any other architecture. And it's a bit funny (no, it's actually hilarious) to see advocates of Sam dismiss Mac PPC machines as terribly expensive and have outdated performance, when the PPC Macs represents *the peak* of PPC desktop HW, it was how far the PPC ever came on the desktop.
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Whatever price you paid (you got screwed btw), similar speced PC machine is much cheaper. The question is why MorphOS is not available for the cheaper hardware if their goal is to have their OS on cheaper, off the shelf, easily available hardware?
Is this your best argument you can use to defend SAM?
P.S. It's hard to find Macs here and the one's I found are terribly expensive/outdated.
Can you actually by SAM in your country from local flea market or walmart? If you need hardware to run MorphOS you are likely to find more PPC Mac options than there are SAMs in your country.
Edit: I checked and it is impossible buy new SAM here in Finland. It is available via special order but then you could just order it overseas from... well... Amikit in England?
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MorphOS will never port to sam boards. It would require way to much work I think. I think their time is better spent on powerbook/g5 support.
I agree mac ppc hardware is worlds better than any sam board.
If they get g5 support done, that will be awesome, but most g4 macs already run rings around anything sam. I think it was a great idea to port to mac hardware. Its out there, its accessable, its cheap and easy to find...
Amiga os is doomed to die a slow agonizing death when the fastest hardware available is 1ghz (And ridiculous expensive) I don't remember exactly when I had my first 1ghz or faster computer, but it has to be more than 10 years ago.
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Can you actually by SAM in your country from local flea market or walmart?
Are you suggesting me that I shall buy my hardware from flea markets or Walmart?
What's next? From your own experience suggesting me to look in the dumpsters for MorphOS ready hardware?
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Are you suggesting me that I shall buy my hardware from flea markets or Walmart?
I dont know Bulgaria very well so tell me what stores you visit in your country when you buy new or old SAM460?
What's next? From your own experience suggesting me to look in the dumpsters for MorphOS ready hardware?
Why not? I know many who find old Amigas from dumpsters and recycling centers, refurbish them and sell to collectors.
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In what sense the Powerbook and G5 macs are not underpowered custom high priced hw?
So if you buy Sam, you pay for AmigaOS 4.... What's so bad about it? When you buy Powerbook and G5 macs you are paying for MacOS X, or not? Can you buy a Mac without Apple's OS price attached to it?
The difference is that Steve Jobs never tried to promote his OS by declaring Morphos illegal. I sincerely doubt that the Morphos team would like to line Ben's pockets by supporting a machine that has to be bought with his OS.
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Port it somewhere where it makes sense... x86. And in the future, maybe ARM.
SAMs are not worth the effort.
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Port it somewhere where it makes sense... x86. And in the future, maybe ARM.
SAMs are not worth the effort.
You forgot to mention Commodore stickers on commodity hardware being the "true calling" - you're slipping! :lol:
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Hmm. My Pegasos II was bundled with MorphOS. Nevertheless OS4.1 exists for this machine as well and both run nicely on the same hardware. I would like to see a MorphOS port for my SAM - and I wouldn't hesitate to buy it instantly if it emerges to reality. And, by the way, *my* use case is to run "MorphOS on my SAM" - not to run MorphOS. So please don't tell me about world-domination-almost-free-super-duper-used-Macintosh-hardware out there.
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Can you actually by SAM in your country from local flea market or walmart?
You can´t buy macs from the flea market or at walmart in germany. (At least not the flea markets I´ve been to. An iMac G4 (which won´t run MorphOS but is comparable to a SAM460) will be sold at about 350EUR on eBay (if you are lucky), but you will have to wait longer to find it there than to just order a SAM from Vesalia. Macs are getting more popular, so it is much easier to get an Intel machine than one of the classic models. No Mac (any condition) that was built after 2000 will retail below 100EUR here.
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Hi,
Who would like to see MorphOS on Sam?
Sam who?
Do you mean samari?
Depends on which Sam and if he can carry the weight.
How much does MorphOS weight?
smerf
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Are you suggesting me that I shall buy my hardware from flea markets or Walmart?
What's next? From your own experience suggesting me to look in the dumpsters for MorphOS ready hardware?
Hi,
With most Amiga's we are already looking at flea markets and in dumpsters, heck even Walmart wouldn't carry Amiga today!!!
smerf
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Whatever price you paid (you got screwed btw), similar speced PC machine is much cheaper. The question is why MorphOS is not available for the cheaper hardware if their goal is to have their OS on cheaper, off the shelf, easily available hardware?
P.S. It's hard to find Macs here and the one's I found are terribly expensive/outdated.
Wherever you are Mac must be over priced. In my area Powerbooks sell for about two thirds of the price of an Intel Atom Netbook (which to me seems to be a reasonable value).
I got my G4 Powermac for next to nothing and the only expensive component I've got in it is the CPU accelerator card.
Mac Mini's are generally about $200 and G5 Powermacs run between $200 and $400.
As we have a base of software designed to run on PPC processors and Mac prices ARE generally pretty cheap I wholly support the MorphOS development team's decision about what hardware to support.
As always, if you want cheap X86 hardware, use AROS.
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You can´t buy macs from the flea market or at walmart in germany. (At least not the flea markets I´ve been to. An iMac G4 (which won´t run MorphOS but is comparable to a SAM460) will be sold at about 350EUR on eBay (if you are lucky), but you will have to wait longer to find it there than to just order a SAM from Vesalia.
Why compare to an iMac? Get Mac mini or PowerMac. After all maybe you have to pay 100EUR, 200EUR, 300EUR, maybe even 400EUR but it will be much less than SAM. And even better if you dont like it you can put it sale again. Try that with SAM or any other rather exotic hardware.
Real problem with SAM (any model) is that only few hundreds or (at best) thousands will be made until it is out of production. Burden of supporting each variation with limited product runs is too great. There is reason why every Mac model is not and wont be supported.
Macs are getting more popular, so it is much easier to get an Intel machine than one of the classic models.
I dont follow your logic.
No Mac (any condition) that was built after 2000 will retail below 100EUR here.
So Macs are bad because they are so expensive. Better buy SAM instead because it costs even more? Makes sense.
(Btw eMacs should be much much cheaper but personally I consider CRT is unacceptable.)
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Pointed out to me by Andreas Wolf on MorphZone:
"EUR 499.50 for the industrial version (http://www.acube-systems.biz/index.php?page=hardware&pid=5)".
The SAM460 "lite" version is available in single quantities without AOS4.1.
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You can´t buy macs from the flea market or at walmart in germany. (At least not the flea markets I´ve been to. An iMac G4 (which won´t run MorphOS but is comparable to a SAM460) will be sold at about 350EUR on eBay (if you are lucky), .
Huh ? Bought my iMac G5 (the absolute topmodel in PPC iMacs) for 250Euro via EBay's locad-add service and G4s are often offered for under 200 (not there would be a point in buying G4 iMacs).
EBay auctions might fetch higher prices, but surely not that much higher .... atleast not regulary and when done honestly.
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@Iggy
Thats without VAT (and still to expensive for a board that could barely compete with a 2004 PegasosII).
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@Tripitaka
While I personally would like to see MorphOS available for SAM, I can see the point the others are making. The SAM460 is brand new, there are probably less than 100 sold so far. There are many more SAM440 of various models, but this still represents a very small number of systems compared to the number of PPC MAC systems available.
The MorphOS team decided to increase their user base by supporting certain PPC MAC systems which are still available in large quantity in the used market. I think it is a good plan.
---
redfox
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@Iggy
Thats without VAT (and still to expensive for a board that could barely compete with a 2004 PegasosII).
Oh I completely agree with you Kronos. Until I gout my accelerator card I had about $75 tied up in my 933Mhz Powermac. With better AGP graphics, a USB 2.0 card (only $5), and a Soundblaster Live (Ebay also $5).
A completely better deal and better performing.
Like I stated earlier, I support the direction you developers have chosen.
I can't wait to see Powerbook support and G5 support will be low cost (with performance on par with the X1000).
Heck, I've already tested an R400 graphics card (re-flashed) in a G4 and a G5 to make sure we'd have that option on both machines (and be able to move the cards from one to the other).
I'm enjoying the hell out of this.
The main problem I have with the SAMs is their use of relatively low performing Applied Micro processors.
Even the relatively dated G4 dances rings around them at similar speeds.