Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: digiflip on May 28, 2011, 10:28:33 PM
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Clone-A, Natami, FPGA Arcade, Minimig?
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Natami. No disrespect to any of the other projects, but Natami looks to be the most significantly improved of the bunch, so yay for that.
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Natami for me.
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For me it has to be the NatAmi, for lots of reasons but the main one being that's it's the closest we'll ever come to having new hardware that can truly replace an AGA Amiga in future, instead of having to pay over the odds on eBay for a piece of hardware that's 20 years old... :)
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MiniMig, since it's the only one we can actually buy.
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I went for FPGA Arcade, though if it turns out that Natami isn't much more expensive I will get that instead. Natami looks to be much more powerful than the Arcade, but I doubt I will be able to justify the extra cost.
I would be a bit surprised to see anyone voting for Minimig, as while it was a tremendous achievement at the time it will be a bit redundant once Natami and FPGA Arcade are out. The only advantage it has is that it is available now :)
EDIT: Sod's law that as I typed the above someone voted Minimig!
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Natami & MiniMig :)
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EDIT: Sod's law that as I typed the above someone voted Minimig!
And for the exact reason you said someone would. When another FPGA Amiga is available, my favorite may change, but until there is one that runs my Amiga software better than the MiniMig, it is my favorite.
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Jens Schoenfeld suggested to me his http://www.vesalia.de/e_chameleon.htm
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=59405
ie jens has got minimig core working on his Chameleon 64.
but I think FPGA arcade will only be about 20 or 30 euros more.
I would say NAtami but With no clear release date nor Tentative price who knows what the future holds, i think there also possibility to buy NaTami with socketed cpu card for your own 68060 to be used.
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Jens Schoenfeld suggested to me his http://www.vesalia.de/e_chameleon.htm
Indeed, you forgot the Chameleon and the MCC-216 in your poll.
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Indeed, you forgot the Chameleon and the MCC-216 in your poll.
ok humppa when this poll get closed, I give you permission to add them in your poll.
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has humppa requested but on another forum http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=59484
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I had to vote for Minimig as I have two and its the old new hardware solution you can currently purchase to play Amiga games.
Thats not to say that I wont upgrade to a new FPGA solution in the future when they are available to purchase, but at the moment the Minimig is the best new Amiga for playing games since the A1200 in my opinion.
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Agreed. Considering I can only buy a Minimig, I'll have to go with that.
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I believe Natami has some Clone-A added.
I like all FPGA Amigas.
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FPGA Arcade. The Natami is a closed system. No disrespect to Thomas, but all I need is Amiga compatibility (and maybe that '60 board).
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I have to say: FPGA Arcade because I have one, unfortunately my bloody work means I've only had about 3 hours to play with it. I expect this to become my main "Amiga" and I look forward to the 68060 expansion board.
The Minimig v1.1 is also a bloody great machine and if you're an OCS/ECS games player then I highly recommend it. Also, you no longer need the ARM controller for HDF support although it does speed things up a lot and it makes updating the core a hell of a lot easier. I also recommend that unless you only like 1 or 2 disk floppy games that you pay the extra and get the 4MB model.
I have the C-One with the extender board and it never lived up to expectations on the Amiga side. Expect to see it on eBay sometime soon.
The new Chameleon64 also has a Minimig core and an update was released the other day. Unfortunately work has meant that I haven't had a chance to try the Amiga core (and it co-exists on the same SD card as the C64 core). According to the update: "This new core bypasses the chipset emulation if the CPU wants to talk to fastmem... The result is a display of almost 80MHz in Sysinfo (which is a measuring error), 4.65 MIPS and a whopping 8.4-fold speed over the standard A500 (these numbers are more accurate). This core almost catches up with a 25-MHz A3000! The CDTV remote control joystick emulation now gives the correct directions." So, an Amiga with an infra-red joystick! ;-)
NATAMI: Looks good on paper. I like the PCI slot.
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You need to add the Chameleon64 to your poll choices. :-)
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You need to add the Chameleon64 to your poll choices. :-)
Definitely second that idea. The price is nice.
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Definitely second that idea. The price is nice.
Bang for buck it is certainly a nice piece of hardware for classic Commodore fans. I bought it purely as a "C64 on steroids" and the Minimig core release was a surprise bonus. I hope we see additional cores released like the VIC-20, PET, etc.
The beauty of it is the fact that it plugs into a real C64/C64C (doesn't work on a C128) to give you a "real" keyboard and access to the tape drive and floppy drives/plotters/printers as well as the joystick ports.
For those without an actual C64 then a PS2 mouse and keyboard can be connected to the expansion cable and something was mentioned about a joystick dongle for standalone mode. Meanwhile the infra-red Amiga CDTV controller can be assigned as a joystick if necessary.
People say there haven't been any new Amiga models since the A1200/A4000. I disagree, we have plenty of new models available and more on the way.
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The FPGA is in a very exciting phase in its development, so it's hard not to get hyped.
Depending upon which arcade boards get implemented on it, I may end up scrounging up the cash for one.
I'm excited for Natami as well, but it seems like it will be well out of my price range, and I'm not sure if the additional muscle will really matter much to me.
The most powerful Amiga I've owned personally is a modestly expanded A500, after all.
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I really want to vote for NatAmi, but I can't get myself to click on it. However nice it is, I don't think I can stomach going for another system that is non-tinkerable.
(I have spent some time thinking about that - it works wonders when you are 100% in sync with what the creators want, and it breaks down the minute you would prefer something flavoured differently but can't have it.)
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The minimig is a great idea, but it isn't a step ahead. You can get similar performance on classical hardware for the same price.
The Clone-A seems to be targeted to a broader audience, which again means the focus on the Amiga is slightly less. So not knowing what that one brings, I'll skip on that for the time being.
The FPGA Arcade doesn't seem to bring the amiga forward in any sense, I've seen the 060 daughter board but still. that doesn't fix the slight incompatibility the 060 has.
The NatAmi however brings the Amiga forward, with their own core that is as compatible as it can be but has the speed as well would give the classic software a real boost with the new hardware. And since it's also enhanced with the SuperAga and 3d core, plus 512MB of ram, it also opens up for new possibilities which the others don't.
I vote for NatAmi.
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I really want to vote for NatAmi, but I can't get myself to click on it. However nice it is, I don't think I can stomach going for another system that is non-tinkerable.
(I have spent some time thinking about that - it works wonders when you are 100% in sync with what the creators want, and it breaks down the minute you would prefer something flavoured differently but can't have it.)
Agreed 100% - same reasons here.
SuperAGA might be appealing for demo coders, but as standard OS gfx subsystem it's some 15 years late.
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Is the Clone_A still in development or has it been scrapped in favour of the Chameleon? It's been quite a while since I heard anything new about it.
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FPGA Arcade as it exists. Would love to see Nat Ami in production though.
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@Darrin: When you buy the 4MB Minimig, what you get is the normal 2MB minimig with the piggyback 4MB expansion, right? Or does a 4MB Minimig really exist?
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I voted Minimig. None of the others are currently available.
I thought the replay board used a further developed minimig core with additional soft 68K. So it should really be called minimig 2 when it is available.
Also I thought that Yens had given up on CloneA as a system due to belligerence from scAmiga.Inc and was only going to use elements in add-on boards etc.
Natami has been so long in coming since publishing wonderful accounts of performance and compatibility. I don't get how it can take several years to go from that point to a finished motherboard. I get a Dragon feeling about the Natami.
So really we have only one choice; Minimig or it's derivatives.
Note to MODS - I have tried not to use any humour or offend anyone in this post which is entirely my opinion. So please don't ban me.
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I voted Natami, but really I'll go for what ever I can afford, though at this point, I'm loosing interest in the Minimig just because of the amazing speeds associated with these up and coming Amiga clones.
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I may get my hands on an Atlys (http://www.digilentinc.com/Products/Detail.cfm?NavPath=2,400,836&Prod=ATLYS) board in the near future. I will surely look how I can use it to get my Amiga fix.
greets,
Staf.
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I second that.... with the Replay, you get an open source machine to tinker with, plus all the cores for other machines and an FPGA development card. Cool stuff. ;-)
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Is the Clone_A still in development or has it been scrapped in favour of the Chameleon? It's been quite a while since I heard anything new about it.
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=59294
2nd post is jens
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Clone-A, Natami, FPGA Arcade, Minimig?
Which thing is your favorite
* This thing that you haven't tried and know pretty much nothing about
* This thing that is far from don, which you most likely have not tried in any stage of its development
* This other thing that's almost done that you most likely haven't tried
* This thing that you might have tried
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I don't quite get what Jens is aiming for. I'm quite positiv that there will be little/no interest from new developers to develop for the Amiga plattform, regardless of what hardware is available - it's about the operating system and its availability, not the hardware. So what developers is he trying to attract? Probably none that are of any relevance for the Amiga community.
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Natami. It looks like the best machine for my needs. A great deal of compatibility, as well as enough enhances to be called a new Amiga. Also a good perspective for future enhancements. If it turns out to be everything I imagine, it will become my main "creative" machine.
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Which thing is your favorite
* This thing that you haven't tried and know pretty much nothing about
* This thing that is far from don, which you most likely have not tried in any stage of its development
* This other thing that's almost done that you most likely haven't tried
* This thing that you might have tried
Nope I know nothing about Clone A. Other than snippets from eab forum. I only guesstimate it maybe something like chameleon since jens made that too.
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@Darrin: When you buy the 4MB Minimig, what you get is the normal 2MB minimig with the piggyback 4MB expansion, right? Or does a 4MB Minimig really exist?
Yes, it is the 2MB board with the extra 2MB soldered onto the other chips. Amigakit offer the board with the extra RAM installed and tested.
They also offer an upgrade service. I originally had a 2MB board and I sent it to them to have the extra RAM fitted as my soldering skills suck (I have 4 RAM chips at home that will upgrade 2 Minimigs).
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The minimig is a great idea, but it isn't a step ahead. You can get similar performance on classical hardware for the same price.
A new old-stock A500 with a 68000 running at 60MHz, 2MB CHIP RAM, 1.5MB FAST RAM, Hard Drive, Flicker Fixer, 4 floppy drives, ROM Switcher for 3.1/1.3, PS2 mouse adapter, all for the same price as a Minimig? Where can I buy it? ;)
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they are all wicked projects. Minimig is available NOW, Natami will be totally amazing. Clone A I dont know as much about, but Jens makes awesome products
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I'm gonna say FPGA Replay. I have the MiniMig ITX_V2 already, but it got replaced by my Replay board easily merely because of its AGA support and size. An besides, I am not looking for a Amiga NG kind of thing, I am looking for a unit which will present me with
a) The same happiness I got from my Amiga in the 90's
b) Is quite cheap and small.
FPGA Replay fulfills both of these 100%
No offience to any of th other units, but my heart belongs to the Replay board. I must also give my best regards to both Mike and Yaqube as they as very dedicated and skilled.
//Espen
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I voted FPGA Arcade because it's an open system, but I'll end up buying Natami too. I think in the long run FPGA Arcade is the more viable platform given that it can be extended etc. - we've already seen the benefit in that in how it draws on the Minimig cores and TG68 core, and who knows what new generations we could get of it in the future thanks to that. Also the price is right :)
On the other hand Natami is likely to be the more exciting one "short term" given all the new functionality...
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NATAMI. Finally a new amiga worth the name (without using it though)
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Any platform that want my vote better offer tinkerbility, possiblity to change extend, release deratives and share. And possibility to move to new hardware when the old becomes broken without spare parts.
The lesson from proprietary systems is quite clear. It works for some time, then you are screwed for the feature.
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I believe Natami has some Clone-A added.
I believe you are mistaken.
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I believe you are mistaken.
I think he means the philosophy around the projects ie clone A Natami are similar. I think no one can confirm this until Clone A is released has jens wont release info until its released.
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I believe you are mistaken.
According to an email I got from natami. I do believe it came from the dev section.
No problem if I am wrong, maybe I got an email mixed up.
I have heard that some clone-a went into jens scan doubler. Do not know if it was true.
I heard someone say Natami was closed. I do not think they are keeping it closed source.
Unless they changed their mind.
Clone-A would be nice for elder boards.
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I have heard that some clone-a went into jens scan doubler. Do not know if it was true.
The ECS Indivision flickerfixer/scandoubler contains the ECS core from the CloneA. That's it though, none of the AGA Indivision versions contain a CloneA AGA core.
I heard someone say Natami was closed. I do not think they are keeping it closed source.
Unless they changed their mind.
Read:
http://www.natami.net/knowledge.php?b=2¬e=38307&x=0
Clone-A would be nice for elder boards.
I believe you are mistaken about what the Clone-A will be, it is far more likely to be a standalone product rather than a drop-in replacement for Amiga chipsets, especially if it's aimed at people who don't have an Amiga already. It might have been demonstrated linked up to a real Amiga 500, but that was just to show off how close to the real hardware it is.
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I sit corrected.
:-D
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I like both FPGA Arcade and Natami, although my vote goes to Natami.
Arcade will be like a 1200 add on the daughter board and you have a 060' + USB + ethernet.
The only problem with Natami is the progress and progress information :(
Natami will be much more improved amiga and has room for 2 expansions (PCI + CPU board). The CPU expansion could also have a modern PPC accelerator (3rd party), 10/100/1000 Ethernet, USB2.0, DDR2 Memory (with 64bit bus), AGA (100 times faster), Native 3D core, N050 softcore hybrid 68k with 68000, 68060 and Coldfire instructions (the first N68050 release scores are comparable to a 500 MHz Motorola 68030). http://www.ppa.pl/artykul-12.questions.to..Natami.Team.part.1-3_32_1334.html (interesting interview)