Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: amigadave on May 22, 2011, 09:22:44 PM
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I know this question has been asked dozens of times and there is really no concrete way to get an absolute answer, but just for fun, let's see how many responses we can get and also get some discussion about how many Amiga users are still active in 2011.
Some users still think that there are thousands of people that still use an Amiga computer, or some form of Amiga experience on a regular basis. Others, like me, only think that there are a few hundred Amiga users that actually boot up any kind of AmigaOS, or Amiga-Like OS at least once or twice a week and use it for anything.
To make the discussion more meaningful I will define some parameters for all of us to use, so we are talking about the same numbers of users and not confusing Apples with Oranges. Here are the definitions of the various users for use in this Poll.
"Active Classic Amiga User" = Someone who boots up any model of Amiga computer that was manufactured by Commodore Business Machines between 1985 & 1994, at least once or twice a week and uses it for at least 15 to 30 minutes each boot up.
"Active Amiga-Like User" = Someone who boots up one or more of any of the following operating systems and use it for at least 15 to 30 minutes once or twice each and every week. AmigaOS1.x to 3.x, including running it via emulation on non-Amiga hardware, AmigaOS4.x, MorphOS1.x, or 2.x, any flavor of AROS.
"Amiga Lurker" = Someone who no longer uses any Amiga, or Amiga-Like system on a regular basis, but still shows an interest in Amiga news by visiting Amiga related sites at least once every 3 days/nights, and possibly booting up some kind of Amiga/Amiga-Like system occasionally.
If you are none of the above, you probably won't see this poll, but you can use the "Other" category and leave a message explaining what your interest and usage level regarding Amiga/Amiga-Like systems is.
I have allowed multiple choices and "Pancakes" to try to please everyone.
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Er... no poll options showing up at time of posting... :)
EDIT: Nevermind.
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Er... no poll options showing up at time of posting... :)
Takes a few minutes to type them Matt.
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Lurker, I guess...
I have my A1200 on hold in her special place ready to boot but no time to do so... because I'm busy frequently checking many Amiga forums and spamming them.
PS: What took you so long? :P
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I voted once for each of the top two choices, as I use one or the other every week, or every day and often I use both a Classic system and a MorphOS system often enough to qualify for both the top two choices. If I don't boot up one of my MorphOS computers, it is most likely that it is because I have been on one of my Classic Amiga systems. Lately I have been on my A1200/060 more than anything else.
As for the real question, how many users are left, none of the retailers or developers of any of the OSes will give us exact numbers to base our estimates on and make an accurate guess. MorphOS2.x has a counter attached to each new registration email, so we know how many systems have been registered to run MorphOS2.x, but many users have multiple MorphOS2.x systems, so we don't know exactly how many MorphOS2.x users there are (I have three registered MorphOS2.7 systems). Amiga.org shows over 900 "Active" members and thousands of signed up members, but only 150 to 200 really seem to be active here.
There are some users that still believe that there are thousands of Amiga users out there around the world, but I really doubt it. What do you think?
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My 1200 is on every week. Some weeks its only once or twice, others its almost every day for a couple of hours.
Since we're moving and whatnot, been a lot less time lately :(
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Takes a few minutes to type them Matt.
Ah. I've never started a poll so I don't know the mechanics behind creating it :)
Anywho, I've ticked the choices for Classic and Amiga-like.
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Classic and Amiga-like too. Lately as in a few times a week, I've been having fun restoring and playing with different expansions for the A1000, A500 and A2000.
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Generally active Amiga user using MorphOS every day and sometimes playing with my Amiga 500. Have been lot less lately due to my work in NZ and then having a new gf. My Mac mini is always on so I can start quickly coding something.
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I don´t like the term "Amiga-Like", but I am an active UAE & Amiga OS4 user. I prefer using my Amiga 3000 to UAE, but desk space is limited and classic Amigas arent portable, so UAE has to stand in as a replacement.
All my friends who had an Amiga in the 80s have completely abandoned the platform and aren´t likely to return. They basically are sane people. I guess you have to be a little funny to even read Amiga.org
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Last time my main A1200 was switched off was September last year when I had to cut the power in the house to do some re-wiring (but it was only off for about 3 hours)... :)
Can't help but wonder about your "on" times though, Why would anyone just switch on their Amiga for 15 to 30 minutes... :(
PS: That to me is the secret of never having in 25 years a busted Amiga, if you don't switch it off and and much (if at all) then the components don't get "worn out" so to speak, by the shock of the initial power surge that happens each time you switch them on... :)
EDIT: On the note of how many active users that may be still out there today I reckon worldwide somewhere between 2 to 3 thousand... :)
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There are some users that still believe that there are thousands of Amiga users out there around the world, but I really doubt it. What do you think?
Thousands, yes. But perhaps not more than 70,000. In Germany you will find maybe five users for every big city (average). There are about 100 of these cities which would mean that there are 500 users, by a conservative estimate. If Amigas were sold in 100 countries that have about the same following we´d have 50,000 users worldwide. This is just a wild guess and most of them will just be playing old video games.
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I was hoping to get some discussion on the question, but I forgot to include my estimates to get the discussion started, so here they are.
Active Classic Amiga Users = Less than 300 (that boot up often enough to fit the definition given in this poll).
Active Amiga-Like Users = Probably about 1,000 (that boot up often enough to fit the definition given in this poll).
Amiga Lurker's = I think there are probably still another 1,000 to 2,000 people, above the numbers for the two groups above, that are still interested enough in the Amiga to check forum sites, post message once in a while, and boot some kind of Amiga/Amiga-Like system once in a while.
With there being a lot of overlap between the first two groups, I am guessing that the total number of people still having any kind of active interest in anything Amiga is probably around 2,000 to 3,000 people (which is very sad). The number of people that are likely to spend money on Amiga/Amiga-Like hardware and/or software purchases is much smaller, probably 1,000 at the most. A very small market for developers and hardware manufacturer's.
@Ismart,
I would agree with your estimate for Germany being about 500 users that are still "Active", but I think that your 70,000 number is crazy. Remember that I am asking about "Active" users who boot up and use an Amiga/Amiga-Like system at least once or twice "every" week and use it for at least 15 to 30 minutes "every" week. Not just people that own an Amiga/Amiga-Like system and turn it on once a month or less.
The most active countries or areas that still have an interest in anything Amiga seem to be Germany, the UK, Poland and some other nearby countries, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, & the USA, with additional users still active in Spain, Portugal, Brazil, Mexico, Japan and maybe a few users in China. So, I don't think we can assume that if there are 500 users still in Germany (or a few more), that there are that many in all of the other countries that the Amiga was sold, as it was not as popular in the other countries as it was in Germany & the UK.
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Remember that I am asking about "Active" users who boot up and use an Amiga/Amiga-Like system at least once or twice "every" week and use it for at least 15 to 30 minutes "every" week. Not just people that own an Amiga/Amiga-Like system and turn it on once a month or less.
Right. I was also thinking about people who treasure their old box, but wouldn´t dream about reading in a forum or getting updates/repairs. They won´t turn on the machine in any regular interval. However I think they do matter and belong to the community in a way.
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So far no one has mentioned UAE which is what i use. Are you discriminating against UAE users here? :)
PS last night i banged my head on the wall and now i have a headache... :(
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So far no one has mentioned UAE which is what i use. Are you discriminating against UAE users here? :)
PS last night i banged my head on the wall and now i have a headache... :(
That would be the "Amiga-Like" option, Kesa :lol:
Hope your head feels better!
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My A4000 is on every day, for games and OS fun. Goal is to have it be a DOS/MAC/3.9/BSD machine, which would pretty much cover all the software I'd ever want to run on it :lol:
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PS last night i banged my head on the wall and now i have a headache... :(
Lucky for you it was your head and not your big toe, otherwise you could have got brain damage (again)... :D
PS: Did you get all your exam results yet... :)
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Right. I was also thinking about people who treasure their old box, but wouldn´t dream about reading in a forum or getting updates/repairs. They won´t turn on the machine in any regular interval. However I think they do matter and belong to the community in a way.
Yes, I agree that there might be 70,000 people that have heard about the Amiga and remember it fondly (or otherwise), but I don't consider them as users anymore, and certainly not "Active" users. I am curious to know how many "Active" and "Semi-Active" users (=Lurkers) there are left. Not just former Amiga owners/users.
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Lucky for you it was your head and not your big toe, otherwise you could have got brain damage (again)... :D
PS: Did you get all your exam results yet... :)
I sit my exams in 2 weeks today. Hope i pass!:)
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So far no one has mentioned UAE which is what i use. Are you discriminating against UAE users here? :)
PS last night i banged my head on the wall and now i have a headache... :(
From the original post in this thread:
""Active Amiga-Like User" = Someone who boots up one or more of any of the following operating systems and use it for at least 15 to 30 minutes once or twice each and every week. AmigaOS1.x to 3.x, including running it via emulation on non-Amiga hardware, AmigaOS4.x, MorphOS1.x, or 2.x, any flavor of AROS."
Booting any version of AmigaOS on non-Amiga hardware would include using any version of UAE.
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I use WinUAE or my A1200 at least once or twice a week. I lurk here...popping up every once in a while.
When it's not fun any more, maybe I'll stop, but it's not stopped being fun yet...and it's been 21 years so far.
...and counting...
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First post here. I am very much a lurker.
The funny thing though - I do not own an Amiga, and have actually never used an Amiga in my life. I simply love computer history and appreciate how the Amiga advanced computing.
When I heard that Commodore USA was going to sell an "Amiga", I started visiting this site to get the reaction from you guys. Since then I've found this board to be very informative and entertaining.
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First post here. I am very much a lurker.
The funny thing though - I do not own an Amiga, and have actually never used an Amiga in my life. I simply love computer history and appreciate how the Amiga advanced computing.
When I heard that Commodore USA was going to sell an "Amiga", I started visiting this site to get the reaction from you guys. Since then I've found this board to be very informative and entertaining.
I agree that this site is entertaining with all the trolling that goes on but not sure about that other thing you said ;)
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I'd be very surprised if there are more than 1000 active users worldwide.
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First post here. I am very much a lurker.
The funny thing though - I do not own an Amiga, and have actually never used an Amiga in my life. I simply love computer history and appreciate how the Amiga advanced computing.
When I heard that Commodore USA was going to sell an "Amiga", I started visiting this site to get the reaction from you guys. Since then I've found this board to be very informative and entertaining.
Welcome Rogee!
Nice to see someone who does not normally post messages on the forum replying to this thread. It is also interesting how you found out about the Amiga and ironic. Makes me laugh even harder at all the fools that have put up such a stink about the new Commodore USA with hate mail and messages. To have a potential new user come into the community because of the advertising done by Commodore USA is a good thing and many people will hate to admit that anything good could come from the company that they love to hate so much.
Welcome to Amiga.org and I hope that you will find the Amiga interesting enough to one day actually use one, or at least to run an Amiga emulation on whichever computer system you usually use the most. Computer history is an interesting subject to many of us. Using an Amiga becomes an addiction, so beware, once you start, you will never be able to stop (and it can get very expensive buying Amiga gear, if you decide to buy your own real Commodore Amiga hardware from the past, not the new Linux machines with only an Amiga badge on them from the new Commodore USA company).
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You ask how many users are left? Can I ask how many are coming?
Whenever I go home, my parents home that is, I would inevitably get the A500 up and running again. But last time I went to boot and did the chip ram hack and bought some gear from Amikit and Amigamaniac in order to get it hooked up to a modern projector. In the end, my brother adopted the machine and his kids are still using it for gaming.
So my Amiga interest goes as far as I can make it back home every so often. Which is less and less often as one may imagine. But it's good to think that our A500 is being used by the next generation a bit. Who can say how far that will go?
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4104/5185473288_db476027f3.jpg)
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I fire up my A500 or CD32 once in a while for some games, but other than that, I barely touch them any more. I'm very interested in Amiga FPGA clones and Aros, and I'd like to get more involved at some point, but right now I'm just sitting back and watching things develop.
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You ask how many users are left? Can I ask how many are coming?
Whenever I go home, my parents home that is, I would inevitably get the A500 up and running again. But last time I went to boot and did the chip ram hack and bought some gear from Amikit and Amigamaniac in order to get it hooked up to a modern projector. In the end, my brother adopted the machine and his kids are still using it for gaming.
So my Amiga interest goes as far as I can make it back home every so often. Which is less and less often as one may imagine. But it's good to think that our A500 is being used by the next generation a bit. Who can say how far that will go?
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4104/5185473288_db476027f3.jpg)
Always good to see new computer users being introduced to a Classic Amiga computer (instead of just buying them an X-Box360, Playstation, or Wii).
My grandson will be getting his own Amiga from my collection, as soon as he and his Dad move to a bigger place to live this Summer. I always try to encourage Amiga users to get young people to use Amiga computers, and if possible, teach them how to program on them. New users and programmers have to come from somewhere.
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I will probably become a regular user when I get an MCC-216 and/or Chameleon.
I hope to get Amiga Forever 2010/2011.
I keep daydreaming of turning the A3000 schematics into a board.
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I'm both a "Lurker" AND "Other" kinda guy! ;)
Once I get back from deployment, that should hopefully change!
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I dont regularly use anything Amiga these days, but that changes all the time almost like the seasons in this country :-). I do think that there are a lot more people out there that uses a classic Amiga or UAE then people in here think, more or less everyone i know that uses this stuff still dont use any form of online C= forums and thus, people dont see this majority of users at all.
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I dont regularly use anything Amiga these days, but that changes all the time almost like the seasons in this country :-). I do think that there are a lot more people out there that uses a classic Amiga or UAE then people in here think, more or less everyone i know that uses this stuff still dont use any form of online C= forums and thus, people dont see this majority of users at all.
I said that way back last year and got shot down by the usual suspects that I was wrong and that most folk still using an Amiga today would indeed be on these forums... :)
I agree with you there ARE more folk out their still using Amiga's who either don't bother with these forums (or even know they exist) and the ones that do are actually the minority... :)
Heck just corresponding with numerous folk selling Amiga stuff on eBAY & YouTube has shown me that most of them NEVER use these forums or have even heard of them... :)
I know that makes these polls on here kinda pointless in trying to gather figures that are even close to being accurate but they're still interesting nonetheless... :)
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I have an A1200 I don't use. I have a PowerMac G4 with MorphOS on it that I don't use. I have a MicroA1 with AmigaOS 4.1 on it that I loaned to another developer. I suppose lurker describes me even though I have some technical knowledge about Amiga and I sometimes use EUAE on my Intel Mac Mini.
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I use my Amigas nearly everyday. Mostly I use the Amiga 1200 and Amiga 2000, but I tend to fire up my CD32 now and then aswell.
Oh, and my "new" Amiga 4000 is up and running as a server with Envoy too :)
I just love the classic Amiga. It's so much OS-joy that I can't get enough..
:D
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I'd say I'm an Amiga lurker too. I still read the websites and join in from time to time, and go to an Amiga usergroup meeting every month but I don't think I've turned either of my A4000s on since January.
I go through phases of using my Amigas or C64s for a while before they go back in the cupboard to collect dust.
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I have an A1200 I don't use. I have a PowerMac G4 with MorphOS on it that I don't use. I have a MicroA1 with AmigaOS 4.1 on it that I loaned to another developer. I suppose lurker describes me even though I have some technical knowledge about Amiga and I sometimes use EUAE on my Intel Mac Mini.
Aren't you still actively developing Amiga, or Amiga-Like software SamuraiCrow?
It would surprise me if you did not qualify as an "Active Amiga User". I thought you were always writing some kind of code that was Amiga related. Is work on Matthais still progressing, or has it stalled?
I guess even some of the oldest (not age, but length of Amiga user status) Amiga users take breaks from using some kind of Amiga experience from time to time.
I wonder how many "Active Amiga Users" there are in the world that never visit this site? I just can't imagine someone who uses an Amiga (of any kind) regularly that does not get on the Internet and visit Amiga forum sites at least once in a while, be it this site or another one. If they are really that active in using an Amiga (of any kind), I would think that they also would be active in visiting at least one or more Amiga related forum sites.
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I know many Amiga users who rarely (if ever) visit forum sites. Not so many like to speak in foreign language.
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My A1200 is on every day :)
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I still use a classic Amiga. I have working A1000 and A2000 computers. I also use amikit on my Windows machine and may start using MorphOS on a powermac soon too. I use the old classic machines the most however.
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I know many Amiga users who rarely (if ever) visit forum sites. Not so many like to speak in foreign language.
But aren't there Amiga forum sites in their native language that they could visit?
I would think that they would visit at least one Amiga related forum site, even if only to read it through a web page translation tool, like Google, or something else.
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I use AmiKit with WinUAE set up as A4000ish. I really enjoy running demos, and just basically surfing the net - I like netsurf 2.7 better than either aweb or ibrowse even with the quarks netsurf 2.7 has. And btw, I have amiKit set up using OS3.9 (BB 1&2). When I am not making videos for YouTube and catching up with biz there or watching something on Hulu or revision 3 I have amikit fired up - at least 2-3hrs a day.
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Active "Amiga-Like" User, because I use my PPC system every day.
I do not power up my A2000HD often enough to qualify for the poll.
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redfox
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I voted for the first two options. And, of course, Pancakes.
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I use my Amiga everyday.
I listen to mods on it and watch a lot of demos.
As well as messing around in Workbench.
I would not like to be without my Amiga!
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I have been an active AROS user, at least boot it once a week either on QEMU or on my wife netbook to test stuff; pity the health of my main laptop got worse lately and also sufferd an increase on the load at my work so lately am less active, hoping in tihngs improving in the future...
Saimon69
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* OS4.1, weekly
* WinUAE, less often
* classic, many many years ago
EDIT: voted second and pancakes options
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I study with interest the numbers of people visiting my website and last year it peaked at 17000 people from around the world visiting in one month. My graphical information from world visitors is from everywhere really so my guess there are a lot more people playing with them than you think. There are countries that I link to from the stats information that have active forums in some quite unusual countries which I can work out from the tags all have Amigas. So you never know...
I always like to say that I don't have 'one' Amiga to my name. You can probably work out why... :-)
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I use my Amiga daily especially my A1200 as for number i know of at least 5 people, 4 of which are active classic users that user their Amiga's daily BUT don't visit forums. I would put the figure to be at least 150-200 in Australia alone.
Also now that the A1200 is fully set up my kids like playing games on it as well, just got to set up the A500 and CD32 for them too so at least from my end my Amiga have a future with my kids.
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I use my Amiga daily especially my A1200 as for number i know of at least 5 people, 4 of which are active classic users that user their Amiga's daily BUT don't visit forums. I would put the figure to be at least 150-200 in Australia alone.
Also now that the A1200 is fully set up my kids like playing games on it as well, just got to set up the A500 and CD32 for them too so at least from my end my Amiga have a future with my kids.
4 of your 5 Amiga using friends never visit any Amiga related forums? That is very surprising to me, that they would not use a PC or Mac or Linux machine in addition to their Amiga (or the Amiga itself) to browse the Internet and visit at least one Amiga related website to read news and maybe a few forum posts. I know that there are many lurkers on forum sites that do not like to post replies on the forums, but I figured most Amiga users were at least reading the news on one or more Amiga related websites on a regular basis.
I may have to re-evaluate my estimate of how many active Amiga users are left out there. If your example is typical for many countries, there could be twice the number of users than I think there are. Every Amiga owner/user that I know uses the Internet every day and visits Amiga forum sites, so my experience is very different than yours.
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I was surprised too but i asked one of the the one that love to make music why he said that he didn't have a need, he did say he looked at some but could not be bother to register.
I think there would be still a lot of users around you just have to look on ebay to see how quick Amiga's go and its not always the same people (not saying that ebay is the end all). I think number would be atleast in the thousands worldwide for classic still.. Heck i still use my c64 :lol:
But like you and other i really want the new generation to get into them too, for me i really am starting to dislike all these new PC games hence why I told mt kids that their play time is split between Amiga's and PC's.... :D yes i am sneaky.....
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That is the kind of "sneaky" I can support whole heartedly! Once they try them out and find out how good some of the game play is for so many Amiga games, they will not miss all the fancy graphics of modern games so much. I have watched my Son play some X-Box360 games that have gorgeous graphics, but the game play looks so repetitive and boring after a while. My Son uses his games as a big part of his social networking, since we moved a few years ago. That way he can still keep in touch with his old friends and play games with them via the head set and micro-phone while playing several different kinds of games that support talking to your team-mates while playing. He is 17 now (almost 18), and I never was successful in getting him to play much on any Amigas for more than a week before he headed back to the X-Box360, or PC games on his AMD powered Windows computer. I hope other Amiga users are more successful at getting their kids interested in using Amigas, so there will be a new generation of Amiga users to replace us oldtimers. I am still hoping that my Grandson will continue to show an increased interest in the Amiga, as he will be getting his own A500 from my collection as soon as they move into a bigger house later this Summer.
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This is interesting. We should set up a poll to determine if Amiga users use forums or not. Vote yes if you use forums to support you amiga hobby. Vote no if you never use forums, ever.
;)
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I was hoping to get some discussion on the question, but I forgot to include my estimates to get the discussion started, so here they are.
Active Classic Amiga Users = Less than 300 (that boot up often enough to fit the definition given in this poll).
Active Amiga-Like Users = Probably about 1,000 (that boot up often enough to fit the definition given in this poll).
Amiga Lurker's = I think there are probably still another 1,000 to 2,000 people, above the numbers for the two groups above, that are still interested enough in the Amiga to check forum sites, post message once in a while, and boot some kind of Amiga/Amiga-Like system once in a while.
With there being a lot of overlap between the first two groups, I am guessing that the total number of people still having any kind of active interest in anything Amiga is probably around 2,000 to 3,000 people (which is very sad). The number of people that are likely to spend money on Amiga/Amiga-Like hardware and/or software purchases is much smaller, probably 1,000 at the most. A very small market for developers and hardware manufacturer's.
@Ismart,
I would agree with your estimate for Germany being about 500 users that are still "Active", but I think that your 70,000 number is crazy. Remember that I am asking about "Active" users who boot up and use an Amiga/Amiga-Like system at least once or twice "every" week and use it for at least 15 to 30 minutes "every" week. Not just people that own an Amiga/Amiga-Like system and turn it on once a month or less.
The most active countries or areas that still have an interest in anything Amiga seem to be Germany, the UK, Poland and some other nearby countries, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, & the USA, with additional users still active in Spain, Portugal, Brazil, Mexico, Japan and maybe a few users in China. So, I don't think we can assume that if there are 500 users still in Germany (or a few more), that there are that many in all of the other countries that the Amiga was sold, as it was not as popular in the other countries as it was in Germany & the UK.
I think that Sweden should be mentioned since there are about 10 people that I would call active. You got amidog that I think everyone here should know of, deniil and a few others that I can't remember right now. I think that AmiFTP (only AOS 4, I know) and DOpus 4 was ported but someone from Sweden as well. Some are AOS 4 only though like Björn Hagström who are involved in "Filer" for AOS 4. I'm sure that people visiting aw.net and amigans.net are familiar with Kicko as well. Norway and Finland got some users and developers too.
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I guess I can imagine it. If your interest is mainly the classics rather than post-commodore stuff, there's not a ton of discussion going on.
Prowl ebay for hardware and replacements and its all good. Check aminet occasionally. That sort of deal.
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Daily Amiga Classic User.
I am posting from my A1200
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OS4 is my main OS (used daily). I rarely use my classic systems anymore.
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Daily Amiga Classic User.
I am posting from my A1200
Keep the flame :)
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Keep the flame :)
You too! ;)
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aros! open source and multi-platform!
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Other - I own a few miggies that have not been switched on in years.
I have a mac mini with registered Morphos 2.7 that I use occasionally
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Still using my Amiga 1200. I use it for playing games (WHD-Load is fantastic), watch demos, fiddling with Deluxe paint and some typing in AMOS Professional. Sometimes I just like configuring the Workbench and install all kinds of utilities and applications. :)
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I use the Amiga OS 4.1 and 3.9.
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3.9 A1200, every week. 3.9 A4000T, not very often. Various flavours of UAE (My phone, my Xbox, and my dreamcast). Try out Aros now and again.
On the subject of user numbers, we need to remember that a large number of Spanish and German users have their own forums. Perhaps other Euro nations as well. There are also users who do not bother with forums. I've worked with quite a few Amiga users who are happy using the software from the past, and have no need of come on to a forum.
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Miggys packed up right now. Going to unpack soon and do some coding hopefully.
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I chose the 1st option, Classic User. Though I don't get why only CBM Amigas would be mentioned for real Amigas. Amiga Tech. ones from '95-'96+ certainly should count as well. It's virtually the same harware, and just as Amiga compatible with no emulation of any kind. I also don't get why AmigaOS 1.x-3.x would be listed as "Amiga-like", when not run on non-Amiga emulation. It should be in the first category.
lsmart:
I'd disagree you have to be "funny" to be into Amiga anymore. Being "normal" and only into Win/Mac just means you're a conventional, conformist, lemming, IMHO. To appreciate the best platform ever and stick with Amiga well into the 21st century just takes a little more intelligence, maybe more experience, and a lot more independence (from conformity).
Last time my main A1200 was switched off was September last year when I had to cut the power in the house to do some re-wiring (but it was only off for about 3 hours)... :)
Can't help but wonder about your "on" times though, Why would anyone just switch on their Amiga for 15 to 30 minutes... :(
PS: That to me is the secret of never having in 25 years a busted Amiga, if you don't switch it off and and much (if at all) then the components don't get "worn out" so to speak, by the shock of the initial power surge that happens each time you switch them on... :)
EDIT: On the note of how many active users that may be still out there today I reckon worldwide somewhere between 2 to 3 thousand... :)
I agree, how could anyone use an Amiga for only 15-30 minutes at a time? I'm lucky if I can ever keep it to as little as ~4 hours minimum. :lol: Usually once I'm on it's half the day to all day/night. :D That sounds like what I used to do with my A1200, the on 24/7 thing, cause it was the only way to extend the life of the old HD that wanted to die, 'til I replaced it.
I don't think you're philosophy of that preventing things from wearing out is entirely correct though. While it can extend some mechanical wearing out, even solid state components get worn down eventually, especially when they're on 24/7. My A1200's scan doubler and AGA Alice output have visible toasting marks and take about 20 minutes to warm up to normal output brightness, respectively. I've little doubt the being powered 24/7 for a couple years contributed a lot to that. I've never had a busted Amiga either, just problems with things like monitors and hard drives. My A1200 was even exposed to freezing temperatures. But that's cause Amiga has always been high-end quality. :) One of the reasons we still use Amiga... why get a new Kia/Mitsubishi/whatever run of the mill cheapo, when you can keep using a Mercedes/BMW. :)
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I chose the 1st option, Classic User. Though I don't get why only CBM Amigas would be mentioned for real Amigas. Amiga Tech. ones from '95-'96+ certainly should count as well.... :)
I'm sure an Amiga Tech A1200 or A4000 fits in the first category..
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I am an active and a-like user. I fire my A1200 at least once a week and play a game or watch a demo. I'm also using my sam440-flex almost daily to surf Amiga-related sites.:biglaugh:
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I don't think you're philosophy of that preventing things from wearing out is entirely correct though. While it can extend some mechanical wearing out, even solid state components get worn down eventually, especially when they're on 24/7.
It's actually based on research done many moons ago by component and TV manufactures like Samsung... :)
You see my brother in law who's a TV engineer (well back in the days of CRT TV's) always used to show me and talk about the latest research done in that field... :)
A number of reports were about the testing of mainly capacitors and the showed that the initial voltage surge that all appliances receive when powerd on directly from the mains and not like from standy-by these days, results in an initial high voltage spike/surge that degrades capacitors by the equivalent of nearly 30 days non stop use at each initial power up... :)
For me it seems to have proven true as I very rarely (if ever) switch things off and have had very few electrical items break down on me over the years. Sure all things degrade and wear out eventually but older computers, tvs etc... suffer more from this mainly due to the size and amount of large (in comparison to more modern stuff) capacitors they use... :)
It's like the often heard story of someone digging out of their loft an old Amiga that was working fine when they put it away all those years ago, it worked fine when they put it away but when they dug it out and switched it on it doesn't work, mainly because the capacitors have dried out and the initial voltage shock after all these years kills them totally... :)
The old C64 was notorious for this problem as a lot of the games were "reset proof" and so the only way to reset the computer was to switch it off and on which took it's toll on the PSU's capacitors, this was easily fixed when people bagan making reset switches & cartridges for the C64 that did away with the need to constantly power off and on... :)
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I'm not sure that I fit into any of the other options so I went with "other"...
I'm kinda having a break from the Amiga at the moment because I got frustrated while trying to install an 060 in my A4000... In the process I somehow managed to blow up my Deneb and still no joy with the 060...
Still interested but will leave the miggys alone till I get over the frustration
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Last time I tried to start my huge A4000 tower it didn't work - so a lurker just now. Time to push all connectors as well as the expansion cards back; tens of ageing connectors tend to play up every now and then.
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It's actually based on research done many moons ago by component and TV manufactures like Samsung... :)
You see my brother in law who's a TV engineer (well back in the days of CRT TV's) always used to show me and talk about the latest research done in that field... :)
A number of reports were about the testing of mainly capacitors and the showed that the initial voltage surge that all appliances receive when powerd on directly from the mains and not like from standy-by these days, results in an initial high voltage spike/surge that degrades capacitors by the equivalent of nearly 30 days non stop use at each initial power up... :)
For me it seems to have proven true as I very rarely (if ever) switch things off and have had very few electrical items break down on me over the years. Sure all things degrade and wear out eventually but older computers, tvs etc... suffer more from this mainly due to the size and amount of large (in comparison to more modern stuff) capacitors they use... :)
It's like the often heard story of someone digging out of their loft an old Amiga that was working fine when they put it away all those years ago, it worked fine when they put it away but when they dug it out and switched it on it doesn't work, mainly because the capacitors have dried out and the initial voltage shock after all these years kills them totally... :)
The old C64 was notorious for this problem as a lot of the games were "reset proof" and so the only way to reset the computer was to switch it off and on which took it's toll on the PSU's capacitors, this was easily fixed when people bagan making reset switches & cartridges for the C64 that did away with the need to constantly power off and on... :)
Franko, your opinions are always entertaining. But, aside from what you and your brother think capacitors have a lifespan rating. Here is how it is is calculated so you know the facts. Surge really has nothing to do with it unless you used the wrong voltage rating in your design.http://www.illinoiscapacitor.com/tech-center/life-calculators.aspx (http://www.illinoiscapacitor.com/tech-center/life-calculators.aspx)
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Well, I am pretty sure from personal experience that caps can pop when a computer is turned on.
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@Mizar
"I'd disagree you have to be "funny" to be into Amiga anymore. Being "normal" and only into Win/Mac just means you're a conventional, conformist, lemming, IMHO. To appreciate the best platform ever and stick with Amiga well into the 21st century just takes a little more intelligence, maybe more experience, and a lot more independence (from conformity)."
So, anyone who don't use an amiga for everyday use is a fool?. Oh, yes, it's more intelligent not having memory protection, or a decent browser, or mainstream apps...
Perhaps you are the only intelligent amigan who managed to get on his classic amiga 1080p video playing and full web experience but haven't told anyone.
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Franko, your opinions are always entertaining. But, aside from what you and your brother think capacitors have a lifespan rating. Here is how it is is calculated so you know the facts. Surge really has nothing to do with it unless you used the wrong voltage rating in your design.http://www.illinoiscapacitor.com/tech-center/life-calculators.aspx (http://www.illinoiscapacitor.com/tech-center/life-calculators.aspx)
No offence Amiga92570 but it's not what I or my brother in law think nor is it based on average lifespan ratings, it's based on both scientific tests that were carried out by the manufactures & experience... :)
Lifespan ratings are based on what you should expect on average from a capacitor being run under normal load and tested upon the capacitors being powered up x amount of times... :)
The tests in the late nineties carried out by different manufacturers and independent labs showed a number of factors come into play with regard to their lifespan that make the tables you speak of pretty pointless and more of just an average guideline for circuit designers... :)
The tests and results proved that the more times a capacitor is powered up the shorter it's lifespan as explained previously and that also a simple thing like leaving an item for years without ever being powered up at all, the damage done in the first initial power up after all those years can and often does significant damage to the capacitors or blow them altogether... :)
If I were to believe the lifespan ratings that you speak of then both my Microvitic Monitor and my 1084 Monitors should have had needed most of their capacitors replaced years ago with the length of time I've been running them virtually non stop (not to mention my Amigas) but they haven't... :)
Of course lots of other factors come into it too, mainly the quality and formula used in the manufacture of capacitors, just ask Apple about that one in regard to their problems with capacitors a number of years ago... :)
At the end of the day I'm satisfied by both what I've read & experienced and been told by not just my brother in law but lots of his acquaintances who were also in the same lines of business as him, who all agree on this matter and many had claimed for years before these tests that this was indeed the case and the tests just confirmed their beliefs... :)
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Just to side note for my vote: as stated I'm mostly a "lurker" right now (despite I don't like this definition).
I don't use my Amigas regulary because of time and space constraints (the latter especially); just every now and then for testing some software/hardware.
I have 2 A500s, an A600, an A1200 and A1000, beside an A4000 motherboard still to repair (with various nice expansions and peripherals too).
Hope to setup my A1200 ASAP to get that nice computing feeling once again, even if I have to rely on my PC for most of everyday tasks (eg. web browsing).
BY!
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I'm sure an Amiga Tech A1200 or A4000 fits in the first category..
Yeah, I should have wrote designed by CBM, or just "Classic Amiga", but someone probably would have figured out some kind of complaint no matter which descriptions I used. Can't please all the people all the time, specially in the world of Amiga.
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Cool... So around 150 active users on Amiga.org.
Wonder how many that extrapolates to in the rest of the world?
Is still stand by my figure of around 1000, tops... :-)
Mike.
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I'm here I use an Amiga 1000 and 3000 on a reg basis. Also restoring an Amiga 4000 and also have an 2500HD (don't hardly use though).
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Pancakes are good.
I thought about choosing lurker, but went with pancakes. Pancakes are syrupy delicious.
I remember having an A1200 with 060 accelerator, and then finding an old, used PowerMac, and that PowerMac was so powerful - I felt guilty. I did. I was cheating on my platform.
Hey, at least I felt guilty for cheating - not for sinning. Some of you have it really bad.
I'm pretty much weaned off Amiga now, haven't booted one in years, and only have to visit amiga sites a couple dozen times a year, and thats about it. I'll be frank, I thought about buying back into the Amiga scene. I saw that you could finally buy, in stock, a machine with OS 4 installed - but I didn't. Bought yet another mac - 2.5ghz quad-core iMac - ok I'm getting all guilty again.
later
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I'd be very surprised if there are more than 1000 active users worldwide.
MorphOS users number almost 2000 by themselves. AOS4 numbers aren't known (ask Hyperion). I suspect that the number of legacy users may be higher than estimated. UAE users may be more numerous than legacy users (what's your fastest 'Amiga'? A PC).
My own loose estimate? Slightly under 10,000.
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Be surprised, I'm a new classic Amiga user. I love retros and always will.
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MorphOS users number almost 2000 by themselves. AOS4 numbers aren't known (ask Hyperion). I suspect that the number of legacy users may be higher than estimated. UAE users may be more numerous than legacy users (what's your fastest 'Amiga'? A PC).
My own loose estimate? Slightly under 10,000.
Very interesting estimates/claims, do you have a source for your "almost 2000" MorphOS users? Since there are less than 1,200 MorphOS2.x registered systems and many MorphOS2.x users have more than one registered system, the number of MorphOS2.x users is obviously less than 1,000, so you must have some info about how many MorhpOS1.4.5 users are still actively using the free version of MorphOS1.4.5.
Also, remember the definitions in this thread/poll for "Active" users, not just occasional users, or people that own an Amiga, or Amiga-Like system and turn it on once in a while. Do you think there are "slightly under 10,000" active users? I doubt it. There could be that number of people that are still have some level of interest about Amiga systems.
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Franko, your opinions are always entertaining. But, aside from what you and your brother think capacitors have a lifespan rating. Here is how it is is calculated so you know the facts. Surge really has nothing to do with it unless you used the wrong voltage rating in your design.http://www.illinoiscapacitor.com/tech-center/life-calculators.aspx (http://www.illinoiscapacitor.com/tech-center/life-calculators.aspx)
Not sure what your getting at, what design ?. And what do you mean facts? Facts denote reality not a predictive formula. From what I can tell this Web site basically confirms Franko's point.. Cold capacitors = short lived capacitors.
Put a voltage metre across the power rails on an Amiga when you turn in on if you doubt the irregularity of power that hits your naked amiga at that time.
Here is Franko who has been using Amigas for nigh on 20 years telling you that keeping them turned on makes them last longer and you quote a formula from an electronics manufacturer who imports components from Hong Kong?
I know who I believe.
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Not sure what your getting at, what design ?. And what do you mean facts? Facts denote reality not a predictive formula. From what I can tell this Web site basically confirms Franko's point.. Cold capacitors = short lived capacitors.
Put a voltage metre across the power rails on an Amiga when you turn in on if you doubt the irregularity of power that hits your naked amiga at that time.
Here is Franko who has been using Amigas for nigh on 20 years telling you that keeping them turned on makes them last longer and you quote a formula from an electronics manufacturer who imports components from Hong Kong?
I know who I believe.
Don't just take my word for it Gertsy, here's a simple wee experiment to try and you can prove it for yourself... :)
Take two identical Amiga's set them up in a nice handy place (but not in the way of everything else) mark one with a large letter A and the other with a large letter B and switch them both on at the same time... :)
Now over the next 20 year period only switch the one marked A off and on once every 2 years or so and the one marked B switch that off and on a couple of times a day... :)
Then see which one packs up first... easy eh... :)
PS: @ The Mods:- what's going on with the site tonight one minute there are umpteen "Server Errors" and the site cannot even be found the next it's working again but the "quick reply" button doesn't work any more or the smilies menu (you have to type them by hand now)... :(
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Power cycling can be very hard on electronics, especially when they get caught in the spokes.
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Of course you also have to factor into this running total the people who don't visit A.org on a regular basis because they prefer forum X over forum Y for whatever reason.
I rarely visit A.org myself as it is seems to be 'all about the past' aka the classics which I find dull. And the all news items you can find duplicated elsewhere.
If I am honest I only visit A.org for the Franko-amusement factor. I see he is still posting links to Doom-master videos after all these months/years. xD
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Very interesting estimates/claims, do you have a source for your "almost 2000" MorphOS users? Since there are less than 1,200 MorphOS2.x registered systems and many MorphOS2.x users have more than one registered system, the number of MorphOS2.x users is obviously less than 1,000, so you must have some info about how many MorhpOS1.4.5 users are still actively using the free version of MorphOS1.4.5.
Also, remember the definitions in this thread/poll for "Active" users, not just occasional users, or people that own an Amiga, or Amiga-Like system and turn it on once in a while. Do you think there are "slightly under 10,000" active users? I doubt it. There could be that number of people that are still have some level of interest about Amiga systems.
Actually David, if you think about it, my estimate is pretty conservative.
I'd be willing to bet that there are more unregistered users then registered users. And even if the number was only 10000, then MorphOS users alone account for as many users as previous total estimates.
The real question is how many copies of AOS4.X have been sold and how many AROS users are there?
We know that the number of legacy systems that remain functional has to be falling each year, but the number of NG system users is rising.
And there is quite a lot of interest in FPGA recreations of legacy hardware.
I will cede to you that the 10K figure may be interested users and active users combined, but the total potential market is definitely higher than 1000.
Then there the statement on the main page of Amiga.org:
Stats Members: 8,317
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Iggy, its impossible to put a number on a 'potential market'. Even with OS4 development seemly at a snails pace at times, as long as there is a reasonable and active core OS development base, the potential market grows and grows over time... as the gap shortens.
There is only so far an operating system can go, Windows and Mac OS X reached that peak moons ago - now they just add eye-candy.
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There is only so far an operating system can go, Windows and Mac OS X reached that peak moons ago - now they just add eye-candy.
Are you suggesting Windoze and MacOS are perfect? Far from it, in fact they still lag behind OS3.9. The stability, backwards compatibility, GUI, API, speed, and other aspects of Windows are inferior to OS3.9. Eg. they still don't ever have the scrollbar arrows located together, we have had that feature for nearly 20 years...The "improvements" being made to Windoze are mostly in the area of Digital Restrictions Management and such...I'll give such "improvements" a miss. The last time any worthwhile improvements were made to Windoze was the improvements between Win98FE and Win98SE, since then it's all been downhill.
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I'd be willing to bet that there are more unregistered users then registered users.
Do you think these unregistered users have cracked the reg code, or are they just half-hour heroes?
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Do you think these unregistered users have cracked the reg code, or are they just half-hour heroes?
I hope the later. Cracking MorphOS is probably fairly easy, but I'd rather give them the 111 euros.
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I was forced to vote Amiga lurker since I sold my A1200 5 years ago and I am waiting to get my A2000 up and running again. Funny! Iwas gpoing to post a similar thread, not as in depth though. I just wondered how many people were still using classic Amigas. I aslo plan on getting Amiga Forever.
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I was forced to vote Amiga lurker since I sold my A1200 5 years ago and I am waiting to get my A2000 up and running again. Funny! Iwas gpoing to post a similar thread, not as in depth though. I just wondered how many people were still using classic Amigas. I aslo plan on getting Amiga Forever.
Out of curiosity, why sell the 1200 over the 2000?
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Out of curiosity, why sell the 1200 over the 2000?
Good question, I was needing money and since at the time I was using the PC mostly, I figured I could get more for the A1200. I sold the 060 and SCSI II separately. As for the A2000 it was my first Amiga I bought in 1993 so it has sentimental value, plus I really want to play with the Video Toaster 4000 I bought for it. I had an Opalvision in my A2000 and a PAR card for a while.
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Good question, I was needing money and since at the time I was using the PC mostly, I figured I could get more for the A1200. I sold the 060 and SCSI II separately. As for the A2000 it was my first Amiga I bought in 1993 so it has sentimental value, plus I really want to play with the Video Toaster 4000 I bought for it. I had an Opalvision in my A2000 and a PAR card for a while.
Cool - seems totally reasonable. I've been using my 4000 mostly, but I still have the 2000 and have dreams of expanding it.
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Cool - seems totally reasonable. I've been using my 4000 mostly, but I still have the 2000 and have dreams of expanding it.
Personally, I'd max out the 4000 first.
That's still the Amiga with the highest performance potential.
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Personally, I'd max out the 4000 first.
That's still the Amiga with the highest performance potential.
Oh of course :D
ZorRam 256, Deneb, Picasso 4 and a 4060/Cyberstorm3...
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Oh of course :D
ZorRam 256, Deneb, Picasso 4 and a 4060/Cyberstorm3...
Nice. How's it feel to have better USB support then most AOS4 users?
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Quoting Franko: "For me it seems to have proven true as I very rarely (if ever) switch things off and have had very few electrical items break down on me over the years. Sure all things degrade and wear out eventually but older computers, tvs etc... suffer more from this mainly due to the size and amount of large (in comparison to more modern stuff) capacitors they use... "
I'd have to disagree here, as I've seen plenty of evidence older appliances with their larger components (including capacitors) only last longer. They're not as susceptible to ESD damage, nor voltage surges. It's the modern ultra small, ultra sensistive components (surface mount, fine pitch, integrated circuits) that are fried by the tiniest voltage that larger and older components would have no problem with. I have some experience and knowledge in this area from working in electronics manufacturing.
Also, I hadn't used my A500 for 7 years, but it powered up flawlessly when I did break it out again. The old technology of the A500 isn't even surface mounted, it's plated through hole, and not so fine pitch as even an A1200. I haven't had too much trouble with electrical/electronic devices either. Electromechanical ones, it seems to be the mechanical parts failing far more often and much sooner.
I guess you leave even the monitor on 24/7? I sure wouldn't want to foot your electrical bil :). And can you imagine how much worse a worldwide carbon footprint there'd be if we all left everything on 24/7 also. The world already uses problematically much energy, nevermind if the norm was leaving everything on all the time.
No offence Mizar but it's not what I or my brother in law think nor is it based on average lifespan ratings, it's based on both scientific tests that were carried out by the manufactures & experience... :)
The tests and results proved that the more times a capacitor is powered up the shorter it's lifespan as explained previously and that also a simple thing like leaving an item for years without ever being powered up at all, the damage done in the first initial power up after all those years can and often does significant damage to the capacitors or blow them altogether... :)
If I were to believe the lifespan ratings that you speak of then both my Microvitic Monitor and my 1084 Monitors should have had needed most of their capacitors replaced years ago with the length of time I've been running them virtually non stop (not to mention my Amigas) but they haven't... :)
Of course lots of other factors come into it too, mainly the quality and formula used in the manufacture of capacitors, just ask Apple about that one in regard to their problems with capacitors a number of years ago... :)
That wasn't me who you quoted, and then addressed me as if I had said it :). But he is correct that electronic components have a limited lifespan, which was my original point. However, anything mechanical is likely to fail long before anything solid state. I didn't fully disagree with what you said, I just said it wasn't entirely correct. Some of what you're claiming about these tests could be true, but probably not the parts I'm disagreeing with :). I have direct and 1st hand experience and knowledge with them, I'm not just making it up.
Leaving a device unused for years and then having a problem with it is easier to believe, as the old attage "use it or lose it" applies to so many things. And so many things can happen to something in storage, like harsh temperature extremes, dust build up, etc., that wouldn't with something that's being used relatively often.
My 1084 lasted a very long time too, but eventually after 15-16 years it wore out. And you're right there's lots a different factors. Quality certainly is one, like you say. Like I previously said, the high-end nature of Amiga hardware always helps with the enduring lifespan. :)
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I use Amiga (not the CBM one) every week.
(A600HD, A4000 are the ones I use rarely. MOS and AROS wait for their time to come.)
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Aren't you still actively developing Amiga, or Amiga-Like software SamuraiCrow?
It would surprise me if you did not qualify as an "Active Amiga User". I thought you were always writing some kind of code that was Amiga related. Is work on Matthais still progressing, or has it stalled?
Mattathias stalled ages ago. I'm now on the NatAmi team because it would be easier to make a new computer to run AmosPro on than it would be to make AmosPro run on the NG Amigas without an emulator.
The most programming I've done in the past month has been helping Cammy with her adventure game engine in AmigaE.
I'm on many Amiga-related teams including MUIBuilder (though I don't know how MUI works), AROS (because it looks like the least common denominator of all Amiga-like OSs), and NatAmi (because I want to run Classic Amiga software). I haven't done much for any of them and wonder if I ever will.
It's hard being unemployed and wondering if my next paycheck will ever come.
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@Mizar
"I'd disagree you have to be "funny" to be into Amiga anymore. Being "normal" and only into Win/Mac just means you're a conventional, conformist, lemming, IMHO. To appreciate the best platform ever and stick with Amiga well into the 21st century just takes a little more intelligence, maybe more experience, and a lot more independence (from conformity)."
So, anyone who don't use an amiga for everyday use is a fool?. Oh, yes, it's more intelligent not having memory protection, or a decent browser, or mainstream apps...
Perhaps you are the only intelligent amigan who managed to get on his classic amiga 1080p video playing and full web experience but haven't told anyone.
You're totally putting words in my mouth. I didn't say anything like that. I spoke of the "normal" being into ONLY- and take careful note of that word- ONLY Win and Mac. How exactly do you become offended by this when you have listed that you ALSO use WinUAE Amiga emulation, AROS, and even classic Amiga???
And who says there isn't a decent browser for Amiga, even classic Amiga... maybe not only for dial-up by my experience. As far as mainstream apps, that sounds like conventionality and conformity talking :).
So, a system has to be capable of your definition of a "full web experience" to be worth using? Gimme a break. Most all of us do use other platforms also, such as for web browsing.
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That wasn't me who you quoted, and then addressed me as if I had said it :)
Ooops... :o
I arsed that on up a wee bit... I was Amiga92570 who I meant (changed it now) and not yourself, reckon I got a bit mixed up somewhere along the line as it was me and you who were talking about this subject then Amiga92570 joined in... humble apologies Mizar... :o
Well anyway I agree in part with what you say but can only stand by what I have said based upon my own experience and so therefore I am right and you are right but I still say I'm more righter than you are in this case... ;)
Erm... is righter a wurd !!! (if not then it soon will be cos I'm writing it in my dictionary right now in me best red crayon...) :)
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Ooops... :o
I arsed that on up a wee bit... I was Amiga92570 who I meant (changed it now) and not yourself, reckon I got a bit mixed up somewhere along the line as it was me and you who were talking about this subject then Amiga92570 joined in... humble apologies Mizar... :o
Well anyway I agree in part with what you say but can only stand by what I have said based upon my own experience and so therefore I am right and you are right but I still say I'm more righter than you are in this case... ;)
Erm... is righter a wurd !!! (if not then it soon will be cos I'm writing it in my dictionary right now in me best red crayon...) :)
I'd have to agree with your basic premise on this one Franko, for the reasons both you and someone else outlined above. Further whilst larger capacitors might be able to take a larger hit before frying over more modern surface mount components it doesn't take away from the point that turning systems on and off does over the long term do more damage than simply leaving them on as far as the electronics go.
I imagine this is part of the reason so many TV's and other appliances offer a standby as the default rather than simply off on these days.
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I'd have to agree with your basic premise on this one Franko, for the reasons both you and someone else outlined above. Further whilst larger capacitors might be able to take a larger hit before frying over more modern surface mount components it doesn't take away from the point that turning systems on and off does over the long term do more damage than simply leaving them on as far as the electronics go.
I imagine this is part of the reason so many TV's and other appliances offer a standby as the default rather than simply off on these days.
WOW... where you been hiding... ;)
Yeah, even as far back as the early 80's I found this out with the old C64, most retailers at that time would tell you that almost all of the returns were down to the PSU's blowing, due to the simple fact of switching it on and off so many times... :)
It wasn't until folk started making or buying reset switches that enabled you to reset so called "reset proof" games that this problem regarding the C64 died out... :)
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It wasn't until folk started making or buying reset switches that enabled you to reset so called "reset proof" games that this problem regarding the C64 died out... :)
Heh. I remember the poor mans solution to freezing games from before I got my first Action Replay (and before I learned enough asm etc. to be able to work my way around these things in other ways):
Turning the machine off and on quickly enough a couple of times and save the memory... If the game didn't use any parts overwritten by BASIC, you could get it that way, as it took at least a tenth of a second or two without power before the RAM on the C64 was cleared enough to be useless...
Amazingly I never did blow any C64 PSU's. Did blow several IC's, over the years, and had a dust fire in one...
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"Amiga-Like" (E-UAE on Linux) and pancakes (with blueberries).
I could be persuaded to vote "Classic" if I could just find a brand new A3000 still in the box that's been sitting in some old lady's basement for the past 20 years...
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WOW... where you been hiding... ;)
Long story short: Lost job and have been dealing with the fallout ever since.
So yeah, fun times. How's everyone else?
Yeah, even as far back as the early 80's I found this out with the old C64, most retailers at that time would tell you that almost all of the returns were down to the PSU's blowing, due to the simple fact of switching it on and off so many times... :)
It wasn't until folk started making or buying reset switches that enabled you to reset so called "reset proof" games that this problem regarding the C64 died out... :)
Pretty much meshes with what I've observed over the years too :)
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Mattathias stalled ages ago. I'm now on the NatAmi team because it would be easier to make a new computer to run AmosPro on than it would be to make AmosPro run on the NG Amigas without an emulator.
The most programming I've done in the past month has been helping Cammy with her adventure game engine in AmigaE.
I'm on many Amiga-related teams including MUIBuilder (though I don't know how MUI works), AROS (because it looks like the least common denominator of all Amiga-like OSs), and NatAmi (because I want to run Classic Amiga software). I haven't done much for any of them and wonder if I ever will.
It's hard being unemployed and wondering if my next paycheck will ever come.
I have seen you around many projects and forum sites and appreciate your views on many topics and your choices of which projects to join and work on. If I ever make it to Minnesota, I will try to look you up and say hi. If you ever visit Calif. I hope you do the same. I am sorry to read that Matthias has stalled, but understand the reasons and I am glad that you are part of the Natami team.
Although the Natami is behind schedule and gets criticized for being too ambitious, or unrealistic by some people, I think that it will succeed and become a great product some day. I think it has a good chance to become the fastest Amiga clone and add some very useful features to the original Amiga design. I am looking forward to seeing the faster blitter and SuperAGA, plus the other speed enhancements and increased RAM capabilities that the Natami will bring to what will essentially be a new Classic Amiga in the truest sense of the word.
Also, congratulations and thanks for your work with Cammy on her AmigaE coding. She is another one of my favorite Amiga people.
Edit: Sorry to hear about your unemployment situation. I have been unemployed for about 4 years now, due to a bad back and failed back surgery that made it worse, but I am hoping a second surgery will improve my condition, so I can get back to some kind of work. I hope you find some employment, or self employment opportunity that you enjoy and meets your income requirements. Times are hard for almost everyone I know right now.
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I have seen you around many projects and forum sites and appreciate your views on many topics and your choices of which projects to join and work on. If I ever make it to Minnesota, I will try to look you up and say hi. If you ever visit Calif. I hope you do the same. I am sorry to read that Matthias has stalled, but understand the reasons and I am glad that you are part of the Natami team.
Ok. If I ever make it out to California, I'll let you know I'm coming. Whether it be to a LLVM DevMeeting or AmiWest.
Although the Natami is behind schedule and gets criticized for being too ambitious, or unrealistic by some people, I think that it will succeed and become a great product some day. I think it has a good chance to become the fastest Amiga clone and add some very useful features to the original Amiga design. I am looking forward to seeing the faster blitter and SuperAGA, plus the other speed enhancements and increased RAM capabilities that the Natami will bring to what will essentially be a new Classic Amiga in the truest sense of the word.
Thanks! With any project that is hobbyist by nature, a schedule is hard to come by but we hope to come out with something soon.
Also, congratulations and thanks for your work with Cammy on her AmigaE coding. She is another one of my favorite Amiga people.
Yeah. She's ahead of me when it comes to MUI now. This adventure game engine is proving to be a good exercise in object-oriented programming even if it is text-based.
Edit: Sorry to hear about your unemployment situation. I have been unemployed for about 4 years now, due to a bad back and failed back surgery that made it worse, but I am hoping a second surgery will improve my condition, so I can get back to some kind of work. I hope you find some employment, or self employment opportunity that you enjoy and meets your income requirements. Times are hard for almost everyone I know right now.
It's been 3 years for me, but in my case it was just graduating during a recession that did it. Blessings on your second back surgery.
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Wow scary times to be in this situation guys (the leander, SamuraiCrow, AmigaDave).
I was primarily working for myself and doing some subcontracting, but I recently took a three day a week job at a local casino to help fill out the lean periods between jobs.
The current.perpetual stagnate economy and the competition for available jobs combine to make a bad situation even worse.
I wish all you guys the best. I've followed each of your posts and believe each of you to be intelligent capable individuals.
Hopefully in each of your cases, things will turn around.
BTW - SamuraiCrow, please tell me you're not carrying giant student loan debts (like the ones I will probably carry with me to my grave).
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BTW - SamuraiCrow, please tell me you're not carrying giant student loan debts (like the ones I will probably carry with me to my grave).
I owe about $3000 in student loan debt right now so I'm not too bad. My programming partner Sidewinder (http://www.amiga.org/forums/member.php?u=259), has his masters' degree in computer science and is in worse shape than I am. He also has a wife and child. His wife has student debt as well.
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I owe about $3000 in student loan debt right now so I'm not too bad. My programming partner Sidewinder (http://www.amiga.org/forums/member.php?u=259), has his masters' degree in computer science and is in worse shape than I am. He also has a wife and child. His wife has student debt as well.
Nope, that's not too painful. With interest, I'm up to about$40K.
Frankly, when I see anything from my Alma Mater I want to flip them the Fickle Finger of Fate.
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Wow scary times to be in this situation guys (the leander, SamuraiCrow, AmigaDave).
I was primarily working for myself and doing some subcontracting, but I recently took a three day a week job at a local casino to help fill out the lean periods between jobs.
The current.perpetual stagnate economy and the competition for available jobs combine to make a bad situation even worse.
I wish all you guys the best. I've followed each of your posts and believe each of you to be intelligent capable individuals.
Hopefully in each of your cases, things will turn around.
Ditto to the other lads, and thanks. Tbh as much as I enjoyed the work within my chosen industry I've come to the conclusion that there are simply too many naughty boys and girls running companies in it to hold out much hope of avoiding a repeat of my current situation. Time to force the implementation of my grand plan a little ahead of schedule.
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Time to force the implementation of my grand plan a little ahead of schedule.
Hopefully that doesn't have anything to do with ruling the world, Alan.
Near as I can tell, thanks to the Global recession and throat cutting competition the only recourse is to seriously hustle.
I'm not relying on a plan anymore. I'm selling what I've got, wherever I can, too the best prospects (not necessarily the highest bidder).
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Hopefully that doesn't have anything to do with ruling the world, Alan.
I'm British, it's in my nature ;)
Near as I can tell, thanks to the Global recession and throat cutting competition the only recourse is to seriously hustle.
Tell me about it. Although I think in some respects some of my problems could have been avoided if I'd done a little more research into who I ended up working for. Guess as with so many other things in life, it's about finding a happy medium.
I'm not relying on a plan anymore. I'm selling what I've got, wherever I can, too the best prospects (not necessarily the highest bidder).
Good man. :)
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Near as I can tell, thanks to the Global recession and throat cutting competition the only recourse is to seriously hustle.
Who said we're in a recession? My gubberment sez evryfing is fine?
I'm British, it's in my nature ;)
Good to see you're still around Alan, don't like it when you go AWOL...
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Good man. :)
Thanks, but its more of an evolution made necessary by external events. I would much rather pursue opportunities in areas I have more interest in.
I just can't afford to.
Thank god I've still got my personal interests (like following the developments in our market). What helps keep me positive allows me to focus on everything as a whole.
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I try to use mine at least once a week maybe more now but I really need to learn more in commands in CLI box and such. I have a 1200 and a 2000 both very good machines
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I boot my A2000 for several hours once or twice a week depending on what I am interested in working on.
Lately, it has been for setting up a Kickstart 1.3 system with an old 2090 controller and Miniscribe 20MB MFM HD. I like the old OS's the best, writing mountlist entries, ARexx scripts, searching through mountains of FredFish and AmiNet collections looking for tools and utilities.
I use UAE here and there, mostly when I want to mount a SCSI HD on an old Adaptec board I have in a spare PC and set it up for my Amiga without messing with floppies, ADF's make less of a mess.
After decades, I am still surprised by what the Amiga can do, and there has never been a time where using the Amiga wasn't fun.
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233 voters so far in this poll. Not bad, more than I expected to vote, but I wonder how many more lurkers are here that use their Amigas, or Amiga-Like systems regularly, but don't participate in polls, or usually post messages in the forums?
I also wonder how many people here think that there are more people that read these forums and don't post replies, or vote, than there are that do participate on forums and vote in polls?
Are there more people that still use Amiga computers and never use this, or other Amiga forums out there, or are the majority of active Amiga users members of at least one or more Amiga forum site?
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233 voters so far in this poll. Not bad, more than I expected to vote, but I wonder how many more lurkers are here that use their Amigas, or Amiga-Like systems regularly, but don't participate in polls, or usually post messages in the forums?
Seems to me, many people only post when need help ..
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Out of curiosity how many users are there on the other Amiga forums? Is Amiga.org one of the larger ones? Lemonamiga seems quite large... :)
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German http://www.a1k.org/ seems to have 100 - 200 posts per day with about 1200 regged members.
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lurker here, have a working 1200 that Ive been meaning to get ethernet for.
Any amiga news still has hypno-toad scale pull on me.
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I am looking to move into the Amiga Like area with Murks and Aros running better.
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Right. I was also thinking about people who treasure their old box, but wouldn´t dream about reading in a forum or getting updates/repairs. They won´t turn on the machine in any regular interval. However I think they do matter and belong to the community in a way.
Own the machine(s), BUT use WINUAE/UAE weekly should be an option for sure.
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There is one more AmigaOS4.1 User from now on. After nearly 20 Years of using Windows-shit I am back and bought a SAM460ex. :)
I did not know that the amiga is still alive since I googeled for it a few months ago. I was really surprised as I read of the G4/G3, the SAM and the X1, too.
I really hope that the developement of hard- and software will continue, so that this great OS4 has the oportunity to rise up again.
Unfortunately a lot of former AOS Users do not know about all this. I am sure at least as many users which are needed to grant the developement should be out there and only needed to be reactivated :hammer:
But one is for sure. I am infected again. I know computing is fun...
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I have two Amiga 500 computers and Amiga 1200 and an AROS setup. I may not always use the computers on a specific regular interval pattern. I would probably say that I would more often use the AROS setup than I would the original hardware but I would run the original hardware on a maintenance run so to speak in that parlance.
I also have a Windows computer set up. I also have my Commodore, Atari, Apple II series, TI-99/4A, NES & SNES hardware to cycle through but also use the emulators. The reason that I do use emulation is in the development cycle. I would like to know the market size of the Commodore 64/128 and the Amiga. I know there is considerable overlap. On the other hand, it is really hard to predict. On the emulation front, there is no knowing how many unique users have the emulators in each platform. There is also the ability to recapture former Commodore users via the emulator front. This user base would easily outnumber the number of people who may actively use the original hardware. From a commercial video game developer point of view, the number of C64 users would be important to projecting sales potential from a return on investment point of view but also in terms of how much resources (especially financial resources) in producing the works. A commercial video game developer even for the Commodore or Amiga computers will have to make a reasonable amount of money and sales in order to be able to continue doing so. We don't spend a full-time work load producing commercial quality games to be earning less than we could working for a burger joint. Duh, Captain Obvious. We know that, right. Indeed.
On the flip side, it is very difficult to know how many. There is a very small percentage of the Commodore community who solely uses these classic computers. There are still some that do exist.
The emulator front consists of users who actively uses the original hardware and actively participate in the users groups. There is probably an unknown quantity of more people who have downloaded emulators and downloads the original games and demos for the C= & AMIGA computers and plays them on the emulators. Most of these people may not even be in any way or form being involved on the forums or they just browse the forums without ever creating accounts for leads to new games and demos to play and enjoy. This number of people can possibly reach the levels of 10 to 1 ratio to that of the people who still uses the original hardware and from time to time uses it and participate on the forums. If 1,000 to 2,000 people are active on the forum and there is probably around 10 times that that are semi-regular but there is another 10x times that.
If we learn from the C64DTV sales, if there is sufficient awareness brought out to the market at large, over a 100,000 people are interested. It is highly unlikely a couple thousand individuals bought up the 250,000 units supplies by any measure. That would be an awful large amount. I would say there is probably around 100,000 to 200,000 users on the emulation front for C64/128 and the Amiga. They probably amounted for nearly 1/3 of the sales of the C64DTV for example. The same crowd that downloaded some version of any of the C64 emulators that exist probably bought a C64DTV.
From a developer point of view, I would have to expense with some major capital to catch enough attention to get them. It is easiest for me, the lowest and easiest to reach branch to get the core communities that uses the forum. They would likely be the ones that will buy a video game for the C64 or Amiga.
This market size is probably around ~10,000 give or take. It is very unlikely from a sales point of view that 100% of those users would buy one's product. Getting 10% or even 20% of them to buy a video game, that was developed, would be amazing. In my rule book, on this market would be amazing. If we could get 20,000 to 50,000 C64 emulator users to be actively perusing the C64 forums and involved more, greater the market pool could be. Similarly, the same would be for the Amiga community.
The key is getting them out of the shadows of the internet and into the light some. Even my estimate from the C64DTV sales being emulator users, the potential size of the C64 emulator user base can be well into the millions. Then emulator users may not identify themselves as C64 users or Amiga users even though they use the emulators. This users base size could easily be reflected back on the original C= and Amiga market by a substantial level. While some of the original users have died. There have been others in the broader "retro computer" community, namely the retro/classic gaming community, that has been interested in the C64 and Amiga even though they didn't own one back in the 1980s or had later been introduced to them. So it does become a give or take. The emulator users base dominates the major portion of this retro/classic computer & console gaming community. This community is probably on the orders of around 5% to 10% of the original community given these systems have been part of the generation's cult culture of the late 70s and 80s and even into the early 90s. These systems and their games are icons of our generation's youth and holds a special spot in our hearts. In that respect, the user base as a whole can be a lot larger than we may notice.
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Just to add to the figures, there has been between 50,000 to 100,000 installs of VICE for a couple versions of them on Android from what I can tell. That's between 100,000 and 200,000 installs for VICE between two versions of it from two different individuals. Frodo is estimated to have somewhere between 100,000 and 500,000 installs on Android.
My guess is Frodo's installs are probably around 100,000 to 125,000.
If I do these figures, that's around 200,000 installs. If I were to assume about 4 average installs per unique user. That would be 50,000 users. There is probably a portion of C64 users who are not Android users on other platforms such as Mac, Windows and Linux that isn't an overlapping users. Lets do the figures and I am looking at maybe 75,000 to even 100,000 users. It is possibly even bigger than that. I can't possibly figure the unique users factor. Amiga community at large in the emulation market is hard to gauge. There is no knowing. We can really see the market becoming a bit larger than a couple thousand or even 10,000.
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Hi, all!
Haven't logged in for a while but still have my towered Amiga 1200 near me.
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lol at thread necromancy to remain people register to write a post about being infected again and disappear forever again.
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Holy necro, Batman!
Still lurking, 5 years later tho'. :D
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I use my Amiga 1200 every week, I may not be on here as much as I used to be, but all the same for the the Amiga was the first computer I went over to after the Commodore 64/128.
I got my Amiga A600 many years ago then onto the A1200 with great pride, for me the Amiga is the only computer with a heart and soul, no other can compare to that.
Mike.J.Lee
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Hello, I am not left, I am new to Amiga. I use many classics and new AmigaOne systems. Of all the sales of Amiga On The Lake I can share with you that 1/2 of all AmigaOneX5000 customers are "new" to AmigaOS
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I built a Minimig a number of years ago and use it off and on. I collect all sorts of retro computer platforms and my interest in a given platform tends to run in cycles. I tend to pull one out of the closet and set it up, play with it frequently for a few weeks and then put it away and get out a different system. My daily driver that I do all my real work on is a Windows 7 machine but I love playing with the classic systems when I'm feeling nostalgic. The Amiga was so far ahead of its time back in the heyday, I can only wonder what it would have evolved into by now had CBM survived and kept it relevant amongst the general population.
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I built a Minimig a number of years ago and use it off and on. I collect all sorts of retro computer platforms and my interest in a given platform tends to run in cycles. I tend to pull one out of the closet and set it up, play with it frequently for a few weeks and then put it away and get out a different system. My daily driver that I do all my real work on is a Windows 7 machine but I love playing with the classic systems when I'm feeling nostalgic. The Amiga was so far ahead of its time back in the heyday, I can only wonder what it would have evolved into by now had CBM survived and kept it relevant amongst the general population.
I have always imagined that in this theoretical world, that Commodore and Atari were still battling it out, Apple would have died off with their proprietary thinking where Commodore would have created an iPhone like device and moved along with it, and Atari would have done more along the lines of Android.
Granted part of my thinking about this is that they were so competitive with each other, yet at the same time so very innovative in bursts that we could have potentially been further ahead now than we are. But the Atari = Android vs Commodore = Walled Garden is from the way TOS has evolved (open source EmuTOS) vs Kickstart (people still grumbling about who owns the copyright.). Granted there is work being done for a Kickstart replacement from the AROS side.
It's kind of odd bouncing back and forth between the two communities. One of these days I'm going to try to get together an article or something, not sure where I'd publish it though...
I'm still waiting to put a CT60e into my Falcon so I can properly compare the best of the best between the two platforms (I already have an '060 in my A4000).
But more back on topic.... While I have my A4000 connected at all times, I've been playing with my Falcon a bit more lately (mainly because I was saddened when my Cyberstorm MK1 decided to burn up in a blaze of glory, and my attempt to get a MK2 working in my Amiga failed I was too sad to work on it, though I finally got it working again with RTG / Internet)
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At the time, Apple was still quite open, especially with the II series but much less so with the Mac. The book for my Apple IIe actually has full schematics of the system along with the theory of operation and everything you need to design your own peripherals and program it. Steve Jobs' vision of the Mac was a computer that was an appliance, one you could simply take out of the box, plug it in and use it. Not my cup of tea, but there is certainly a market for that. People like my mother for example are not computer savvy at all but need to use a computer for work. She doesn't care how it works internally as long as it does what she needs. I was never a fan of Macs back then but as I play with them now it's undeniable that like the Amiga, the 68k Macs were far ahead of the PC clones of the era, though correspondingly more expensive.
I suspect that had development of the Amiga continued, the hardware would have made the same inevitable shift toward commodity PC components as Apple. Processors became more and more powerful and GPUs and audio boards became commodity items eliminating the need for special custom chips. Development would have focused on the operating system as the hardware became more generic. The availability of software for the platform is the make or break aspect as it is for any platform and there is no telling whether Commodore could have maintained a niche in audio/video production and games as Apple largely has in the graphic arts and desktop publishing industries.
Computers just aren't as exciting anymore as they used to be. The tech has matured and everything has largely plateaued. Even low end PCs are now more powerful than needed by the vast majority of users need. Rather than bringing new features and capabilities, new versions of software generally just move everything around and make the UI uglier, conforming to the latest fads. I don't even upgrade anymore in most cases because rather than being better, I've too frequently found that new versions take away features I used and hid other things.
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don't know how I missed this old poll but my votes for 1 & 2 as I'm both a classic & NG user
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Out of curiosity how many users are there on the other Amiga forums? Is Amiga.org one of the larger ones? Lemonamiga seems quite large... :)
eab seems more active. I thought this one was dead after a couple weeks went by and I wasn't approved to join.
I unfortunately don't get to use my Amiga much, have a 2000 that I am trying to fix and then FS-UAE and AROS hosted.
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went to Kippers page and it shows over 1,100 on waiting list for Vampire 600 alone! with 500 and 1200 users one could only imagine.
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went to Kippers page and it shows over 1,100 on waiting list for Vampire 600 alone! with 500 and 1200 users one could only imagine.
Vampire sure kicked something off in the Classic Amiga community and has drawn interest from many ex-users and inactive users.
Well, it's fresh has real good specs, it's affordable and finally something faster then 060!
I had been inactive for 8 years with Amiga's but Vampire lit my fire again!
I'm one of the lucky few 400+ users to have a Vampire v2 for my A600 and I enjoy it every day and can't wait for the A1200 version.
If the demand for the V600 is an indication for V500 and V1200 sales... my god!
2017 is going to be an Awesome year for classic users!
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Vampire sure kicked something off in the Classic Amiga community and has drawn interest from many ex-users and inactive users.
Well, it's fresh has real good specs, it's affordable and finally something faster then 060!
I had been inactive for 8 years with Amiga's but Vampire lit my fire again!
I'm one of the lucky few 400+ users to have a Vampire v2 for my A600 and I enjoy it every day and can't wait for the A1200 version.
If the demand for the V600 is an indication for V500 and V1200 sales... my god!
2017 is going to be an Awesome year for classic users!
Yep. Same here. My nice, clean, recapped A600 is sitting at my desk patiently waiting for my name to be called. The Vampire 2 is what brought me back to the community.
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Interesting statistic I just made up on the spot. One Amiga user dies every day. Which will make us extinct by the end of 2018.
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Interesting statistic I just made up on the spot. One Amiga user dies every day. Which will make us extinct by the end of 2018.
75% of all statistics are inaccurate. :)
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I'm not left, I'm more centrist.
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I'm not left, I'm more centrist.
I see what you did there.
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Sounds like an apocalyptic movie, The last Amigans.
Pc virus lays waste to the Amiga users in the early nineties, years later a few crawl from under their computer dust covers to lay claim to the tech landscape with the aid of a Vampire!
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I've gone from emulation user to lurker during the past year. But I try to keep an eye on things; one can never be %100 sure that Amiga won't make a comeback. Where there's life there's hope, as my Gaffer used to say. :)