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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: freqmax on May 15, 2011, 10:12:36 PM

Title: Must have Zorro cards or other hw?
Post by: freqmax on May 15, 2011, 10:12:36 PM
Is there any Zorro-II/-III cards that you have that you wouldn't live without?, ie very useful, must have etc? ;) that isn't bread-n-butter solutions like SCSI-controller with disk,  IDE-controller with disk, RAM-expansion etc.

Inspiration.. http://www.amiga-hardware.com/
Title: Re: Must have Zorro cards or other hw?
Post by: amigakit on May 15, 2011, 10:22:11 PM
Maybe ZorRAM (http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=958) or Deneb USB (http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=795)

;-)

I would imagine graphics cards such as the Picasso IV would rate highly with users.  I remember when I went from AGA to Picasso and it was a radical difference.
Title: Re: Must have Zorro cards or other hw?
Post by: save2600 on May 15, 2011, 10:28:25 PM
I could live without Deneb, but wouldn't necessarily want to  :)
Title: Re: Must have Zorro cards or other hw?
Post by: trekiej on May 15, 2011, 10:35:18 PM
An A500 cpu slot to Zorro card adapter.
Title: Re: Must have Zorro cards or other hw?
Post by: _ThEcRoW on May 15, 2011, 11:32:17 PM
@trekiej

Indeed, that a500 adapter is one of the many things i am looking for my 500.
Title: Re: Must have Zorro cards or other hw?
Post by: freqmax on May 16, 2011, 12:19:22 AM
But the A500 already have an Zorro-II slot on the left side of the computer?
Title: Re: Must have Zorro cards or other hw?
Post by: save2600 on May 16, 2011, 12:22:47 AM
Quote from: freqmax;638033
But the A500 already have an Zorro-II slot on the left side of the computer?

LOL!  No... it has an 86-pin male connector that needs to be re-wired to be a 100-pin Zorro female connection. I hear Colorado Springs is a popular place for those kinds of surgeries   ;)
Title: Re: Must have Zorro cards or other hw?
Post by: tone007 on May 16, 2011, 01:11:31 AM
If there are Zorro slots, I've gotta have an RTG board and probably also Ethernet.
Title: Re: Must have Zorro cards or other hw?
Post by: Motormouth on May 16, 2011, 01:35:43 AM
Quote from: tone007;638038
If there are Zorro slots, I've gotta have an RTG board and probably also Ethernet.


ditto on the RTG and Ethernet
Title: Re: Must have Zorro cards or other hw?
Post by: freqmax on May 16, 2011, 03:21:50 AM
Like Picasso96?

I know the A500 doesn't have native Zorro bus. However there's plenty of PCBs that will fix that. ;)
Title: Re: Must have Zorro cards or other hw?
Post by: billt on May 16, 2011, 03:39:05 AM
Guys, if you want RTG graphics, you should want PCI or PCI-Express, NOT Zorro.

If you want Memory (ZorRAM), you want that via a more native addon, NOT Zorro. (I don't know how much is in FPGA Arcade directly)

If you want ethernet, is there not already a native addon planned that includes ethernet? But again, PCI/PCIe should be preferrable to Zorro.

Again for Deneb, is there not already USB port on a native FPGA Arcade addon? (I want to think it is on 68060 addon, along with ethernet) Why go Zorro compared to native or PCI?

Are or can be FPGA Arcade addons stackable?

The things I would think hardest to live without would be Video Toaster companions such as the Flyer board. But then we need a video slot for Toaster too. Does anyone really plan to use a toaster kit with the FPGA board?

I think it wold be an interesting project to make a Zorro slot for FPGA Arcade, as an educational exercise, but I don't expect it would be of much practical use. Though I won't be one to discourage anyone wishing to try. (I'm one wishing to try, if nothing more than to learn how to do such things)

I think it would be good to see people working on native addons for popular things like ethernet, USB, SCSI or whatever, rather than trying to adapt unweildy Zorro cards for normal use onto such a petite host.
Title: Re: Must have Zorro cards or other hw?
Post by: Heiroglyph on May 16, 2011, 05:07:21 AM
Deneb is without a doubt my best investment.

Any scan converter to use with available monitors is probably the top thing though.  Without that or digging up an old monitor you're out of luck.  Sort of the same thing with the Deneb and keyboard/mouse.

RTG of some sort is right up there near the top.

I'd say a PCI adapter, but the only thing I use it for is RTG.
Title: Re: Must have Zorro cards or other hw?
Post by: freqmax on May 16, 2011, 05:59:26 AM
The FPGA Replay has 32 MB DRAM which should be enough for many applications. For ethernet the board space needed is PHY+Jack w magnetics so it's easier to have it on base board.
FPGA Replay has USB which is wired to the ARM according to the schematic (http://fpgaarcade.com/common/fpgaarcade_replay_b01_schematic_a2.pdf) page 2, but if it's available for AmigaOS is another matter ;)

There is only one experimental add-on board with MC68060 socket and Ethernet asfaik. And it's not stackable. But there shouldn't be anything that prevent such design.

The video toaster flyer would need an external video A/D + D/A. Dunno how fast the original 3x disk interfaces was but maybe the SD-card can do. Otherwise an Spartan-6 rocketport can connect one S-ATA disc per two differential ports. Processing power is another matter.

Storage over IDE / SCSI is easily implemented in the FPGA without any physical incarnation.
Title: Re: Must have Zorro cards or other hw?
Post by: alexh on May 16, 2011, 07:29:48 AM
Quote from: billt;638059
Guys, if you want RTG graphics, you should want PCI or PCI-Express, NOT Zorro.
1) There is no PCI-Express solution for classic Amiga's? (cept I guess you could use a standard PCI->PCIe bridge)
2) All PCI bridgeboards for classic computers bridge to the Amiga via Zorro.
3) There are no / few software developers for classic AmigaOS these days. Any new hardware would require new drivers. Old hardware can use pre-existing drivers.

Quote from: billt;638059
If you want Memory (ZorRAM), you want that via a more native addon, NOT Zorro.
ZorRAM you can buy new. Native accelerators you cannot?

Quote from: billt;638059
If you want ethernet, is there not already a native addon planned that includes ethernet? But again, PCI/PCIe should be preferrable to Zorro.
See answer above.

Quote from: billt;638059
Again for Deneb, is there not already USB port on a native FPGA Arcade addon? (I want to think it is on 68060 addon, along with ethernet) Why go Zorro compared to native or PCI?
Why have you pushed this thread to be about FPGA Arcade? Is this somehow linked to another thread? [Edit: Ah I've found it. Would have been nice if freqmax had mentioned this in his first post]

For the price of an "FPGA arcade + 060" you could probably buy one of each Zorro card ever made?
Title: Re: Must have Zorro cards or other hw?
Post by: J-Golden on May 16, 2011, 07:59:04 AM
Hmmm going ONLY off of the cards I've owned, I have to say the Piccasso IV was the major improvment that I'd keep over all others.
 
AS for this thread, It's title is asking about Zorro cards, not the Best world sollution. IF we were going for that, we wouldn't really be talking classic HW in the first place. ;)
Title: Re: Must have Zorro cards or other hw?
Post by: Jope on May 16, 2011, 08:16:04 AM
The only really necessary Zorro II card for me these days is an ethernet board. Ariadne II is my weapon of choice.
Title: Re: Must have Zorro cards or other hw?
Post by: Xanxi on May 16, 2011, 11:41:28 AM
The best card there is in the whole amiga history is the Deneb: gives your fast USB, ethernet through an ethernet-USB dongle, and AHI audio through an USB audio dongle if your are Zorro III, not to mention the flashROM.
All that on an half-sized zorro board that won't even waste an inline ISA slot.
Title: Re: Must have Zorro cards or other hw?
Post by: J-Golden on May 16, 2011, 12:25:39 PM
The Deneb is truly awesome! I always wondered if they could make a driver for the VGA and DVI USB adapters that are out.  If that ever happened, it would truly be the single best thing to EVER have on a Classic Amiga...
Title: Re: Must have Zorro cards or other hw?
Post by: Brian on May 16, 2011, 02:54:25 PM
Quote from: freqmax;638008
Is there any Zorro-II/-III cards that you have that you wouldn't live without?, ie very useful, must have etc? ;) that isn't bread-n-butter solutions like SCSI-controller with disk,  IDE-controller with disk, RAM-expansion etc.

Inspiration.. http://www.amiga-hardware.com/


RTG videocard with scandoubler/ff or at least just a scandoubler/ff is about the most important thing so you get a good picture. Next is some kind of way to transfer loads of files, some like a NIC and I get why but I still tend to like USB better (A1200/600 have both NIC and CF through PCMCIA but that's obviously not Z2/3).

That's my 2c.
Title: Re: Must have Zorro cards or other hw?
Post by: Heiroglyph on May 16, 2011, 03:16:22 PM
Quote from: alexh;638086
Why have you pushed this thread to be about FPGA Arcade? Is this somehow linked to another thread? [Edit: Ah I've found it. Would have been nice if freqmax had mentioned this in his first post]


I still don't see how this is related to FPGA Arcade.

If that's the case, I'd like working USB (as opposed to dead ports).  I haven't owned PS2 or Amiga input devices in years.

Simple RTG too, 3D isn't a big issue for me.  None of my monitors are less than 1440x900 native and scaling on LCD's looks rough.  Fast 2D is plenty for my needs.
Title: Re: Must have Zorro cards or other hw?
Post by: billt on May 16, 2011, 03:33:08 PM
Quote from: alexh;638086
1) Why have you pushed this thread to be about FPGA Arcade? Is this somehow linked to another thread?


Maybe my mistake. I've seen the FPGA Arcade thread take on a "we want Zorro slots" subtopic, and there's another thread about Zorro somewhere. At least the main FPGA Arcade thread has been asking "why do you need a Zorro sot adaptor", this topic here fits in with that rather well.

I guess I linked them together myself. Sorry.

As for PCI-Express, there's a handful of PCI32 adaptors, and then you can get this adapter supported with those:
http://www.startech.com/product/PCI1PEX1-PCI-to-PCI-Express-Adapter-Card

Without such adaptors, my favorite Zorro card was Rapidfire or Spitfire SCSI from DKB. Their driver handled auto disk swapping in ZIP drives way better than anything else I tried, even the Squirrel ZIP tools  with my 4091 paled in comparison. I kept a DKB SCSI card in my A4000T for my removable drives, and left everything else on the built-in 4091. My older classics also need ethernet and graphics cards. Anything else either goes unused or I never got one, including my mostly unused Delfina Plus.

But really, we should all value our PCI adaptors above all else. I've got both a Prometheus and a Mediator in different machines.
Title: Re: Must have Zorro cards or other hw?
Post by: Crumb on May 16, 2011, 06:06:00 PM
Quote from: freqmax;638008
Is there any Zorro-II/-III cards that you have that you wouldn't live without?, ie very useful, must have etc? ;)


Deneb: gives you very fast USB2.0, DMA, flashram and allows you to connect sound card, network cards, HDs (and the HDs work way faster than using any other ZorroII card)

RTG:*PicassoIV or CV64+Indivision. PCI bridges are nice but don't switch the display automatically (well, there are some DIY solutions although these are IMHO*slightly expensive)

Network card: use a Deneb

Sound card: never cared about it much... use a Deneb. Or a Delphina, but a Deneb+usb soundcard is ok for me (although doesn't offer cpu-free mp3 decoding like delphina).

HD*controller:*use Deneb with a USB-HD adapter (SATA*or IDE, doesn't matter).

PS:*I have Prometheus, Mediator4000 and Mediator4000T and I have used G-Rex 4000. I prefer Deneb+RTG Zorro card (well, I admit GRex is sweet although if your CSPPC breaks you'll want to slit your wrists).
Title: Re: Must have Zorro cards or other hw?
Post by: zylesea on May 16, 2011, 06:13:52 PM
Quote from: freqmax;638008
Is there any Zorro-II/-III cards that you have that you wouldn't live without?, ie very useful, must have etc? ;) that isn't bread-n-butter solutions like SCSI-controller with disk,  IDE-controller with disk, RAM-expansion etc.

Inspiration.. http://www.amiga-hardware.com/

The *only thing* I sometimes miss from my long ago sold 68k machine is the Delfina soundcard - that one was pretty nice. Hence I consider that the best card in my Amiga, the other cards were rather supporting ingredients.
Title: Re: Must have Zorro cards or other hw?
Post by: alexh on May 16, 2011, 09:34:07 PM
Quote from: J-Golden;638114
I always wondered if they could make a driver for the VGA and DVI USB adapters that are out.
Yes but it would almost certainly suck.

AFAIK these USB cards were designed

a) To have very fast CPU's behind them for software compression
b) To be able to use the full bandwidth of USB2.0 (20+Mbyte/sec)

Pretty sure that given a low power CPU and then capped at 4Mbyte/s they would suck big time.
Title: Re: Must have Zorro cards or other hw?
Post by: alexh on May 16, 2011, 09:42:18 PM
Quote from: billt;638139
As for PCI-Express, there's a handful of PCI32 adaptors, and then you can get this adapter supported with those:
http://www.startech.com/product/PCI1PEX1-PCI-to-PCI-Express-Adapter-Card

I work for the company that designed the chip on that card. Doesn't work very well with newer gfx cards (at least on a PC) :-(
Title: Re: Must have Zorro cards or other hw?
Post by: freqmax on May 17, 2011, 12:05:28 AM
To little bandwidth on the PCI side?
Title: Re: Must have Zorro cards or other hw?
Post by: billt on May 17, 2011, 12:15:00 AM
Quote from: alexh;638224
I work for the company that designed the chip on that card. Doesn't work very well with newer gfx cards (at least on a PC) :-(


I was expecting it to be a PLX chip, I believe their adaptrs in the opposite direction used PLX. I don't know much about the Pericom stuff, but I do have two of your adaptors. :)
Title: Re: Must have Zorro cards or other hw?
Post by: AndyLandy on May 17, 2011, 12:22:47 AM
I love my Z3 Fastlane. 64MB of extra FastRAM and a Fast SCSI-II interface. Damn fine piece of hardware. :-)
Title: Re: Must have Zorro cards or other hw?
Post by: alexh on May 17, 2011, 08:24:29 AM
Quote from: billt;638255
I was expecting it to be a PLX chip, I believe their adaptrs in the opposite direction used PLX.
Yup, probably the same chip used in both, the PEX8112. Works in both forward (PCI host -> PCIe card) and reverse (PCIe host -> PCI card). I play with them at home from time to time with classic systems.

Quote from: freqmax;638253
To little bandwidth on the PCI side?
Possibly. I fear that for some reason the PCIe drivers for gfx cards are not 100% "transparent" as they should be. They don't seem to like being connected to the south bridge PCI. I assume that is because they are so used to being connected to a Northbridge (or CPU) PCIe and perhaps utilise speedups which don't work?? Who knows if this would be an issue for an Amiga.
Title: Re: Must have Zorro cards or other hw?
Post by: SACC-guy on May 17, 2011, 08:38:29 AM
for me, the toaster and flyer cards were the best!

Michael
Title: Re: Must have Zorro cards or other hw?
Post by: Brian on May 17, 2011, 09:51:12 AM
Quote from: AndyLandy;638256
I love my Z3 Fastlane. 64MB of extra FastRAM and a Fast SCSI-II interface. Damn fine piece of hardware. :-)


I belive that falls under
Quote from: freqmax;638008
that isn't bread-n-butter solutions like SCSI-controller with disk,  IDE-controller with disk, RAM-expansion etc.

But nice card none the less. :D
Title: Re: Must have Zorro cards or other hw?
Post by: Kernel on May 17, 2011, 09:21:33 PM
Quote from: Xanxi;638109
The best card there is in the whole amiga history is the Deneb: gives your fast USB, ethernet through an ethernet-USB dongle, and AHI audio through an USB audio dongle if your are Zorro III, not to mention the flashROM.
All that on an half-sized zorro board that won't even waste an inline ISA slot.


I'm glad I saw this... question on the USB Ethernet Dongle that you mentioned...

I was planning on getting a DENEB and an Ethernet card for my A3K but I actually have a NetGear Ethernet Dongle sititng in my garage.  Where would I find a list of supported dongles, if one exists?
Title: Re: Must have Zorro cards or other hw?
Post by: Heiroglyph on May 17, 2011, 09:56:12 PM
The list of chipsets is on the Posseidon USB stack website. http://www.platon42.de/index2.html

Pegasus, Pegasus II, ASIX, Davicom, MosChip and RealTek Chipsets.

I use one intended for the Nintendo Wii (it's an ASIX), works great.  I assume there aren't many drivers in the Wii firmware, so it's probably a safe bet, is available everywhere and doesn't cost much at all.
Title: Re: Must have Zorro cards or other hw?
Post by: alexh on May 18, 2011, 08:01:52 AM
Everyone I've tried worked. Look at the guide in Poseidon? (USB stack software)

http://www.platon42.de/poseidon.html