Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Desktop Audio and Video => Topic started by: trekiej on May 13, 2011, 07:38:39 PM
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Are there any camcorders made in Europe?
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Are there any camcorders made in Europe?
Probably not. Define "made"?
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Manufactured.
So Europe was suckered into letting Asia make everything too?
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"suckered" being the operative word.
Consumer demand for lower prices has lead manufacturers to use Chinese sites to make their products. Now it is almost impossible for a consumer electronics company to be competetive unless their products are being made in Asian countries.
But now the Chinese economy is the second largest in the world, and the current predictions are that they will soon knock the US off their perch.
Meanwhile we're struggling through a recession, we're losing jobs, and the financial system is in crisis. Politicians are running around trying to find a way to kickstart our economy again.
I wonder when the penny dropped that we can't possibly kick-start our economy, because we don't produce anything anymore! The Chinese (and countries like them) have it all. They have the products, they have the talent, they have the facilities, and they have the infra-structure for mass production.
We've given it all away.
So yes, "suckered" is indeed the right word.
AH.
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Wow... couldn't find one manufacturer in this list that wasn't based in China... :(
(111 pages of them...) :eek:
Camcorder Manufacturers & Suppliers (http://www.globalsources.com/manufacturers/Camcorder.html)
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Philips is Dutch, mainoffice is in Amsterdam
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Philips is Dutch, mainoffice is in Amsterdam
Yup, but they don't manufacture the vast majority of their products (if any) in Europe, most is manufactured in Asia (China in particular)... ;)
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Yup, but they don't manufacture the vast majority of their products (if any) in Europe, most is manufactured in Asia (China in particular)... ;)
Yeah, but at least mainoffice and R&D are still over here. And if china gets more and more expensive they move to another country. That's how these things work. :python:
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Yeah, but at least mainoffice and R&D are still over here. And if china gets more and more expensive they move to another country. That's how these things work. :python:
That would be like me setting up a company selling geniune Scottish products but they just so happen to be made in China... :lol:
There are very few products you can buy these days that are manufactured in Europe, and if they were then the prices would be so dear that few would buy or could afford them... ;)
Offices & R&D cost money to run they don't make the huge profits for companies, it's the simple fact that items are produced in Asia that keep companies like Phillips going, manufacture the stuff in Europe or the USA and you'll soon be out of business, it's the way of this world today I'm afraid... :)
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Consumer demand for lower prices has lead manufacturers to use Chinese sites to make their products. Now it is almost impossible for a consumer electronics company to be competetive unless their products are being made in Asian countries.
We've given it all away.
The Germans were rather smarter and tried to keep jobs. They've now got the fastest growing economy in the EU as a result and the highest exports they've ever had.
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Amusingly, a while back there was a strike at a German auto-manufacturer because they were outsourcing some production to the United States :)
But yes, we're (as in, the west) pretty much screwing ourselves.
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But yes, we're (as in, the west) pretty much screwing ourselves.
Suppose you could look at it this way...
At least we aint getting screwed by others... :)
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Yup, and it's not limited to electronics. The company I work for manufactures test systems for hospital labs. As it happens, headquarters, chemical manufacture and R&D are in Ireland, equipment manufacture and more R&D in Germany, but our disposable kits have been moved to China where it costs a quarter of the cost it used to in Ireland - including shipping the chemicals over and shipping the finished goods back. It's sad, but you can't compete with that. I was lucky to be in instrument R&D, but there were many lost jobs because of the transfer of the disposables to China...
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I hope I did not offend by saying "suckered", We seem to have done the same to ourselves. The unions are running the jobs out of town as well as high cost.
If I buy electronics from Asia, I would like to buy them from Japan.
They seem to have a good quality.
I did see a camera online from a company call Hasselblad. I believe they started in Austria or Switzerland.
There base DSLR is 13,995.
It is very nice.
I would love to buy from the USA or Europe sometimes and not the Stuff from China.
Their stuff seem to be loosing quality.
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I hope I did not offend by saying "suckered", We seem to have done the same to ourselves. The unions are running the jobs out of town as well as high cost.
If I buy electronics from Asia, I would like to buy them from Japan.
They seem to have a good quality.
I did see a camera online from a company call Hasselblad. I believe they started in Austria or Switzerland.
There base DSLR is 13,995.
It is very nice.
I would love to buy from the USA or Europe sometimes and not the Stuff from China.
Their stuff seem to be loosing quality.
Love the anti-union sentiment. Do you really think it matters whether you're comparing union or non-union wages when what you're comparing either to is low cost Chinese slave labor?
Hey, at least the wealthy are doing OK.
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I thought about the Chinese work force earlier. It must be nice to have a bunch of slaves who think that supporting master/country is the best. I love my country but I would want to draw the line at killing myself over a job. It seems to be a combination of things that is crippling the world.
From camcorders to a rant in one easy thread/post. :)
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There base DSLR is 13,995.
For about $6,000 US, you can get a new Hasselblad 503CW with standard lens and finder, and a 120mm *film* back. :)
Truly,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://videocam.net.au/fcug
July 23-24 Commodore Vegas Expo 2011 - http://www.portcommodore.com/commvex
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I guess I did not dig deep enough into the site.
Thanks.
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I thought about the Chinese work force earlier. It must be nice to have a bunch of slaves who think that supporting master/country is the best. I love my country but I would want to draw the line at killing myself over a job. It seems to be a combination of things that is crippling the world.
From camcorders to a rant in one easy thread/post. :)
I guess that's just the price of a new iPhone, dead Foxconn workers.
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I have heard that they live above the factory. Some have jumped to their death.
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Yeah, Chinese dormitories look really grim.
Free market economics and totalitarian countries combine to produce some horrific situations.
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I guess I do not have too much against Unions, they seem to be worth it around the first part of the 20th Century.
Now they appear to be socialists.
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I guess I do not have too much against Unions, they seem to be worth it around the first part of the 20th Century.
Now they appear to be socialists.
Having been a Union Shop Steward in my time, there was a point where I had great belief in the Unions, but along came Maggie Thatcher in the 80's and with her the end of Union power in this country and a culture that prevails to this day of looking after number 1... :madashell:
Gave up a long time ago defending my fellow workers when too many of them became spineless gits who loved to complain about the way they were miss-treated in the workplace but they never had the guts to back it up with action... :(
Used to think of myself as a proud socialist but these days I'm happier being called a communist... :)
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You are too independent to be a communist.
You are a country unto your self.
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You are too independent to be a communist.
You are a country unto your self.
For once I'm at a loss for words... ;)
Not a lot I can say to that... :)
Maybe "Part time" Communist-semi-retired only on a Wednesday will have to do... :)
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I just may find you in a dictionary some where. lol
He shoots he scores! lol
Can't stop laughing.
My stomach hurts.
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I hope I did not offend by saying "suckered", We seem to have done the same to ourselves. The unions are running the jobs out of town as well as high cost.
Yes, they're running low paid jobs nobody in the west are willing to take at low enough costs out of town. So?
Long term, the Chinese are doing the same. Just like Indian software companies are now increasingly outsourcing to the Chinese because Indian programmers are rapidly becoming too expensive, the Chinese have already started looking to Africa and poorer Asian countries for outsourcing both software development and manufacturing.
Give it 20 years, and there will be Chinese moaning about the exact same things as in this thread.
Know what? It doesn't matter. The jobs that get exported are the ones that are easy to move around. They'll keep going to the lowest bidder currently capable of providing the infrastructure and services.
Yes, Western unemployment rates are high now, but they are regularly during recessions, and then they bounce back. Europeans and Americans have never been as wealthy as a whole as we are now, *because* we're increasingly outsourcing the low skilled jobs and replacing it with stuff that gives a higher return on investment.
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Having been a Union Shop Steward in my time, there was a point where I had great belief in the Unions, but along came Maggie Thatcher in the 80's and with her the end of Union power in this country and a culture that prevails to this day of looking after number 1... :madashell:
Gave up a long time ago defending my fellow workers when too many of them became spineless gits who loved to complain about the way they were miss-treated in the workplace but they never had the guts to back it up with action... :(
Used to think of myself as a proud socialist but these days I'm happier being called a communist... :)
I think of it differently. Most working class people are in fact *not* looking after number 1, and that's the big problem.
If they were looking after number one, they wouldn't let the right wing get away with increasing inequality. Instead most people get suckered into some twisted idea that it's somehow "fair" that they produce most of the value but don't get the return.
Socialism (at least the Marxist kind) and communism is largely about making the working class realise what the rich has known all along: If you want to do well, you need to gang up with like minded and stand up for yourself, or someone else is going to grab whatever they can.
The difference is that for most people it's never going to be viable to reach "the top" so their best bet is to band together and fight for improvements for the class as a whole, so they also need to realise that "looking after number 1" means working as a team.
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Know what? It doesn't matter. The jobs that get exported are the ones that are easy to move around. They'll keep going to the lowest bidder currently capable of providing the infrastructure and services.
Europeans and Americans have never been as wealthy as a whole as we are now, *because* we're increasingly outsourcing the low skilled jobs and replacing it with stuff that gives a higher return on investment.
Okay, but software development is not a low-skilled job. Manufacturing isn't either - there may be low skilled operators but the Engineering teams behind the manufacturing have to be very skilled indeed.
So it's not just the low skilled jobs that are being exported. And even the low-skilled jobs being exported is a problem because it means that millions of people back here cannot get basic factory work. What do they do instead? Well, they stay at home on benefits of course. Some of them because they're better off that way, and others because they don't have a choice.
All of this is of course driven by the consumer. It's our fault because we demanded (and continue to demand) low prices, which results in the manufacturing work being exported to cheaper countries so that the electronics companies can stay profitable.
Back in the 80s it was normal to pay a high price for your consumer electronics goods. And what we got was better quality product. Now we have cheap product, but it's poor quality and the jobs associated with it have gone elsewhere. I think that's a bad thing, and I think the consequences (in terms of unemployment and future prospects) now far out-weigh the benefits (cheap goods for all of us).
That said, I don't see the situation changing any time soon. Consumers have grown used to paying bottom price for electronics goods. There's no way they're going to accept paying more now. And even if they were amenable to it, which company is going to budge first? None of them are going to want to be the first to give up their low prices. They'd all have to pull out together. Fat chance of that!
AH.