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Operating System Specific Discussions => Other Operating Systems => Topic started by: jj on May 11, 2011, 02:43:00 PM
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Three quick questions......
1) Does anyone use this, what are the pros and cons over ubuntu
2) Is anyone using the latest 11.04 Version.
3) Has anyone tried the PPC version on Mac, any issues to be aware of ? Ubuntu seems to work fine on Mac, but any firsthand experience of Kubuntu would be good.
Thanks
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Are you asking about ubuntu compared to other Linux distros like Suse or Red Hat?
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No as I have used ubuntu. I am asking about the Kubuntu dist versus the plain ubuntu dist as they seem a bit different.
Specfically the latest version and running the PPC version on a Mac mini.
Thought that was pretty clear to be honest
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I haven't used Kubuntu since the KDE 3.5 days. I assume you like KDE 4.X, and thus the want for Kubuntu? As for differences between the two, really its only the DE and packages installed to support them, otherwise they are the same. On the current version, I have heard that there are problems with Kubuntu, although I don't have the specifics -- I run Arch and XFCE for my DE.
The PPC versions I have never tried. I always understood Yellow Dog or Debian to be the most mature PPC versions (and by mature i mean supported).
I personally would avoid the Ubuntu until they get their Unity/Big switchover issues dealt with. If you need a stable linux for work/whatever, go with Debian PPC or Yellow Dog.
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If you want to use KDE I recommend Opensuse 11.4 as Kubuntu has a borked implementation of KDE.
http://opensuse.org
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I use Kubuntu. I've mostly used karmic and Lynx. I'd just recently updated to Meerkat (10.10), had that installed for a month or so before doing the Natty (11.04) udpate. Don't have a lot of time in for Meerkat, and have only booted Natty once I think so far. All that has been used inside of Virtualbox on my PC laptop.
I like it, and I prefer KDE to Gnome. I haven't really ever used Gnome, but on the occasions that for some reason I end up with that on my laptop screen instead of KDE, I don't know my way around it and have to fumble my way through getting KDE back.
I haven't seen Firefox4 come in yet, I'm looking forward to that. I use Eclipse in there, and am trying to set up with FPGA tools to play with Minimig and such things in there. Have been searching for as much free and/or open EDA stuff as I can find, and have the DenX ELDK compiler set up. Also use Eagle PCB a bit in there, though I wish I had known about KiCad before I paid for the pro Eagle license.
KpackageKit is kindof flaky. Use apt-get from commandline or get Synaptic for usual software getting/updating.
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I've been running Ubuntu and Kubuntu for a few years now, with Ubuntu as my regular PC OS and Kubuntu as an experimental toy more than anything. With the release of Ubuntu 11.04 and the move to Unity I've switched to using Kubuntu as my main PC OS, and Ubuntu is getting wiped off. Unity just slows down the usage of the computer, I was able to switch between and launch tasks far quicker with a task bar and drop-down menus for apps instead of this terribly simplified tablet-style crap. Not to mention they got rid of scrollbars in Gnome so you have to make sure every window is in focus before you can attempt to grab the (non-proportional) scrollbar that appears when you hover over the area long enough for it to pop up near your pointer. I've probably accidently launched LibreOffice about ten times when I only meant to quickly switch to another program with the dock/taskbar (which takes a few seconds to appear and disappear every time you use it).
Ubuntu has become an abomination, but Kubuntu has matured and taken the lead. Although I will always prefer drop-down menus to select my applications rather than a "Start" menu, I still prefer this over the stupid tablet-style interface of Unity, which doesn't even present all available applications and settings anymore, and the only way to find many of them is to click in the Search bar and start searching for it. I could probably write a book on all the things that make Unity and Gnome inefficient and illogical, but the kids won't listen of course. To them if it's new, it must be better than anything that came before it.
Kubuntu is pretty nice looking too, and it seems to be more configurable than the Gnome-based Ubuntu. It reminds me a little of MorphOS.
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A little tip for Debian/Ubuntu/Derivatives users, install the Liquorix kernel and watch your machine fly! :)
http://liquorix.net/
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Ive been using Kubuntu for a while now, and I must say, I really enjoy KDE.
Its a lot more customizable compared to Gnome, and the plasma desktop is just a joy to use.
It also includes a full application suite, though of course you can install whatever apps you like in the end.
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I Don't really know the difference between KDE And Gnome , as I understand it there are just different desktops running on top of the linux kernerl ??
I have used ubuntu quite a lot on different machines. However I managed to mess up the install on my laptop and it wouldnt boot.
I also updated to 11.04 at it froze at the end and left me with a non booting linux install.
I originally went for Ubuntu because I was led to believe it was the easiest and most user friendly version.
Have the other distros caught up.
Is red hat, yellow dog etc as easy to install, update and add appliactions etc, as windows ?
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I Don't really know the difference between KDE And Gnome , as I understand it there are just different desktops running on top of the linux kernerl ??
Ah sorry!
Yes, they are basically just different user interfaces.
Im running 11.4. Its mostly solid, but I do get the occasional bug. Honestly, I'd check out Kubuntu 10.10 and just wait a month or so before updating.
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With the release of Ubuntu 11.04 and the move to Unity I've switched to using Kubuntu as my main PC OS, and Ubuntu is getting wiped off. Unity just slows down the usage of the computer, I was able to switch between and launch tasks far quicker with a task bar and drop-down menus for apps instead of this terribly simplified tablet-style crap. Not to mention they got rid of scrollbars in Gnome so you have to make sure every window is in focus before you can attempt to grab the (non-proportional) scrollbar that appears when you hover over the area long enough for it to pop up near your pointer.
I agree, I was very happy with Ubuntu 10.10 but went to 11.04 thinking it would be great and was disappointed. Nice to hear Kubuntu isn't the same, maybe I'll load that one up today.
I also updated to 11.04 at it froze at the end and left me with a non booting linux install.
I had the same issue with two different laptops. Very disappointing.
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This was my desktop that it crashed on.
Was in the middle of playing day of the tentacle and hadnt saved for awhile neither.
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I Don't really know the difference between KDE And Gnome , as I understand it there are just different desktops running on top of the linux kernerl ??
I have used ubuntu quite a lot on different machines. However I managed to mess up the install on my laptop and it wouldnt boot.
I also updated to 11.04 at it froze at the end and left me with a non booting linux install.
I originally went for Ubuntu because I was led to believe it was the easiest and most user friendly version.
Have the other distros caught up.
Is red hat, yellow dog etc as easy to install, update and add appliactions etc, as windows ?
In a word, yes. If you are not beholden to any flavor of linux yet (and it doesn't sound as if you are), then a distro is a distro is a distro.
Now, having said that...:D
Some are more easy to install than others. At the base end, yes it is just some bling running on top of the linux kernel, but there is a difference in how the Desktop Environments (which are currently: KDE, Gnome, XFCE, and LXDE) are handled between distros. There is also a difference in how often they are updated to the latest and greatest, how "serious" they take "security", what is their default desktop environment, and how they package their software. Ubuntu is based on debian, so the toolset is apt and the packages are .deb. Yellow Dog, Suse, RHEL, Fedora, CentOS and some others use RPM, and the tools are probably yum or apt as well. Dependency hell is largely a thing of the past, so the old debate of RPM vs DEB is pretty much null and void these days. As for ease of installation of programs, it is pretty easy, assuming that you know what you are wanting. Most installs should be done on a nice clean partition (always good to put your /home on its own partition for just such reasonings).
If you are/were an amigoid (seems a safe assumption :D ) you know the drill pretty good - RTFM, don't be afraid of mucking about a bit with configs, check their forums for specific issues for your specific hardware. lspci, lsusb, ifconfig, etc. Know the hardware you have and driver issues should be minimized.
For most people not wanting to "play around" and expect stability I would go with debian stable or CentOS. For PPC I'd go with Yellow Dog (oldest and probably the best supported - it ONLY does PPC, as opposed to an afterthought). Honestly, for the debian flavors these days, I much prefer Linux Mint over the standard Ubuntu.
If you want a very stable and very fast system built from the ground up (without compiling - sorry Gentoo!) then read up on Arch.
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Debian Squeeze + Gnome with Openbox as WM. My netbook is now a lean mean surfing machine compared to when I had it struggling with Ubuntu.
Kubuntu is decent if you're a KDE man.
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I agree, I was very happy with Ubuntu 10.10 but went to 11.04 thinking it would be great and was disappointed. Nice to hear Kubuntu isn't the same, maybe I'll load that one up today.
I had the same issue with two different laptops. Very disappointing.
The same thing happened to me. I ugraded to 11.04 and the machine would no longer boot. Tried a fresh install with no luck either.
I switch to Mint Linux after that. It seems pretty nice so far.....
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Personally, I prefer the older 10.04 distro of PPC Ubuntu to the current distro or Kubuntu.
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I've been running Ubuntu and Kubuntu for a few years now, with Ubuntu as my regular PC OS and Kubuntu as an experimental toy more than anything. With the release of Ubuntu 11.04 and the move to Unity I've switched to using Kubuntu as my main PC OS, and Ubuntu is getting wiped off. Unity just slows down the usage of the computer, I was able to switch between and launch tasks far quicker with a task bar and drop-down menus for apps instead of this terribly simplified tablet-style crap. Not to mention they got rid of scrollbars in Gnome so you have to make sure every window is in focus before you can attempt to grab the (non-proportional) scrollbar that appears when you hover over the area long enough for it to pop up near your pointer. I've probably accidently launched LibreOffice about ten times when I only meant to quickly switch to another program with the dock/taskbar (which takes a few seconds to appear and disappear every time you use it).
Ubuntu has become an abomination, but Kubuntu has matured and taken the lead. Although I will always prefer drop-down menus to select my applications rather than a "Start" menu, I still prefer this over the stupid tablet-style interface of Unity, which doesn't even present all available applications and settings anymore, and the only way to find many of them is to click in the Search bar and start searching for it. I could probably write a book on all the things that make Unity and Gnome inefficient and illogical, but the kids won't listen of course. To them if it's new, it must be better than anything that came before it.
Kubuntu is pretty nice looking too, and it seems to be more configurable than the Gnome-based Ubuntu. It reminds me a little of MorphOS.
You can still choose 'ubuntu classic' on the bottom of the login screen. You can choose KDE, XFCE or any other desktop manager there as well :)
But ah well, I thoroughly hate Ubuntu 11.04 as well. It screwed up openGL and it now takes longer to load. And unity is an abomination. Simplification is one thing, but hiding settings to a point you have to use the terminal is not simplification in my eyes. The whole mindset of Unity is just disgusting. Like a flash webpage which continuously make you remind that it's a flashy flash page.
Oh and they de-installed mp3 codec for me as it's not open source, talking about service!
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Thanks for that, I had a feeling there would be a way to get back to the classic interface but since I have my machine set to go straight to the desktop without logging in, I never saw the option. Funny that after weeks of complaining in Linux channels without any help, as soon as I mention it on an Amiga forum someone gives the advice I need.
I may keep regular Ubuntu on one of my machines, but I'm sticking with Kubunu on the rest now. I'm really lucky that quite a few people have thrown out their old broken PCs in the junk piles along the sides of the streets here (http://www.flickr.com/photos/24340362@N08/5701407596/in/photostream), I've scavenged enough working parts from them to build two complete PCs to use for Aros, Linux, Haiku, Syllable, ReactOS, DragonflyBSD, and any other open source OSs that wouldn't run on my netbook. I now have a 1.5Ghz PC with 512MB RAM and a Dual Core 2Ghz PC with 1536MB RAM with CD/DVD drives and hard drives, and I didn't pay a cent for them!
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I may keep regular Ubuntu on one of my machines, but I'm sticking with Kubunu on the rest now. I'm really lucky that quite a few people have thrown out their old broken PCs in the junk piles along the sides of the streets here (http://www.flickr.com/photos/24340362@N08/5701407596/in/photostream), I've scavenged enough working parts from them to build two complete PCs to use for Aros, Linux, Haiku, Syllable, ReactOS, DragonflyBSD, and any other open source OSs that wouldn't run on my netbook. I now have a 1.5Ghz PC with 512MB RAM and a Dual Core 2Ghz PC with 1536MB RAM with CD/DVD drives and hard drives, and I didn't pay a cent for them!
A friend of mine had the Windows installs on both of her computers go flunky and didn't have a restore disk. I installed Xubuntu on the older one (a Pentium 4) and she didn't like that none of her kids games would run on it. The newer one I suggested she keep around for Win7 even though it came with Windows Vista.
It turns out that a fresh install CD of Win7 costs almost as much as a new tower anyway so she got a new tower and gave us the old ones. Now I've got Xubuntu installed on both (the 64-bit version for the newer machine). In the case of the newer one I just had to buy a 120 GiB SATA hard drive for $20 and the old one didn't cost me anything!
The new one has an Athlon x2 4400 and 2 GiB of RAM. The old one has 1 GiB of RAM and a Pentium 4. Both have DVD burners and all I had to supply was the mouse and keyboard of the systems they replaced: our neighbor's Pentium 3 with 128 MiB got the boot and our Pentium 3 with 192 MiB of RAM is idle as well.
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I've been running Ubuntu and Kubuntu for a few years now, with Ubuntu as my regular PC OS and Kubuntu as an experimental toy more than anything. With the release of Ubuntu 11.04 and the move to Unity I've switched to using Kubuntu as my main PC OS, and Ubuntu is getting wiped off. Unity just slows down the usage of the computer, I was able to switch between and launch tasks far quicker with a task bar and drop-down menus for apps instead of this terribly simplified tablet-style crap. Not to mention they got rid of scrollbars in Gnome so you have to make sure every window is in focus before you can attempt to grab the (non-proportional) scrollbar that appears when you hover over the area long enough for it to pop up near your pointer. I've probably accidently launched LibreOffice about ten times when I only meant to quickly switch to another program with the dock/taskbar (which takes a few seconds to appear and disappear every time you use it).
Ubuntu has become an abomination, but Kubuntu has matured and taken the lead. Although I will always prefer drop-down menus to select my applications rather than a "Start" menu, I still prefer this over the stupid tablet-style interface of Unity, which doesn't even present all available applications and settings anymore, and the only way to find many of them is to click in the Search bar and start searching for it. I could probably write a book on all the things that make Unity and Gnome inefficient and illogical, but the kids won't listen of course. To them if it's new, it must be better than anything that came before it.
Kubuntu is pretty nice looking too, and it seems to be more configurable than the Gnome-based Ubuntu. It reminds me a little of MorphOS.
I am also a full time ubuntu user and I hates the new 11.04 interface, I use xubuntu. nice and fast on my older duel zeon workstation
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I despise Ubuntu and its derivatives: It appears that with each successive release, it gets closer and closer to Mac OS X, and crappier as a result.
Instead of Ubuntu, I run Slackware and Debian.
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I despise Ubuntu and its derivatives: It appears that with each successive release, it gets closer and closer to Mac OS X, and crappier as a result.
Instead of Ubuntu, I run Slackware and Debian.
Im sure everyone appreciates your input
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Im sure everyone appreciates your input
And I'm sure everyone appreciates your response.
I would simply like to make the point that Ubuntu has been going downhill, as stability, usability, and democratic input into the project has been decreasing with each successive release. This is apparent with the PulseAudio implementation in 9.10, the decision to move the window icons to the left side (for no good reason other than that's how Shuttleworth wanted it), and the implementation of a new "Unity" interface that resembles a smartphone rather than a desktop interface.
I would recommend, that for a more consistent experience from version to version, as well as an all-around better experience, one uses a distro of Linux that attempts to adhere to Unix principles (like Slackware or Arch) or just takes a "base" system (Debian) and configures it with the desktop environment that they would like.
It is apparent that the OP of this thread would like to use KDE, and there are a variety of options for this. There is OpenSUSE, Sabayon, Arch, Mandriva, and FreeBSD all support KDE out-of-the-box.
Simply put, there are better options for a KDE-based distro.
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I dont know really. I havent seen any real problems on my end.
And in any event, other than pulse audio, the issues you mention are irrelevant to Kubuntu.
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The OP doesn't really care about KDE or Gnome. I have only used ubuntu really.
I was just asking about Kubuntu as I had seen somone talking about it?
It seems that most people would say go Yellow dog for my morphos/linux dual boot.
While I am am here, awhile ago I tried the 64bit version of ubuntu and it was flakey at best. Are there any good 64bit dists for X64 and is there any point ?
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While I am am here, awhile ago I tried the 64bit version of ubuntu and it was flakey at best. Are there any good 64bit dists for X64 and is there any point ?
The 64 bit version of Ubuntu 10.10 ran fine on my laptop.
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I liked KDE 3.5, as implemented in Mandriva. I tried kubuntu (with KDE 3.5) and found it was a bit like the poor cousin to ubuntu. So back to Mandriva I went. Then they went KDE 4 and that was awful, so went back to gnome on Ubuntu 9.10. I'll stick with this as long as I can- about 1 mth LOL.
I don't know what it is about gnome and kde 4 but both these GUI's just feel sticky, with little delays on every menu that drops down, every gadget I click.
TBH, I'm over the endless cycle of OS re-installs with Linux. Its just a fricken 'puter these days.
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Gnome
The thing about Gnome is that it's not that slow as a Desktop environment. It's Window manager, on the other hand, is a big crappy piece of bloat.
It's perfectly possible to make a Gnome install run very fast; just replace Metacity with Openbox, and use the Mist GTK theme. If you want compositing, use Xcompmgr.
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While I am am here, awhile ago I tried the 64bit version of ubuntu and it was flakey at best. Are there any good 64bit dists for X64 and is there any point ?
Flash is still an issue. I have used 64 bit Linux Mint and Arch (and Ubuntu), they all seem OK. There are more issues with them, but it is the "way to the future".
I don't bother with them, much, as the most powerful computer in the house is a several years old Core 2. Heck, my main computer is still my P4 :lol: (where I'm posting this from), so no 64bit necessary.
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The thing about Gnome is that it's not that slow as a Desktop environment. It's Window manager, on the other hand, is a big crappy piece of bloat.
It's perfectly possible to make a Gnome install run very fast; just replace Metacity with Openbox, and use the Mist GTK theme. If you want compositing, use Xcompmgr.
Meh - you want speed? replace all of that with a clean install of Arch or ubuntu server and DWM :lol:
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Three quick questions......
1) Does anyone use this, what are the pros and cons over ubuntu
2) Is anyone using the latest 11.04 Version.
3) Has anyone tried the PPC version on Mac, any issues to be aware of ? Ubuntu seems to work fine on Mac, but any firsthand experience of Kubuntu would be good.
Thanks
for PC users only:
11.04 is a trainwreck :hammer: head on collision when both trains were going backwards, as fast as inept planning and implementation could allow.
(hint: don't build new trains using parts pulled from old wrecked ones)
A good kde distro is Trinity, which is based on 3.5.10 and has continued its developement, now at 3.5.12 and ongoing. KDE 4 is terriible to use and configure, when compared to 3.5.12
bodhi is a good barebones distro, with full access to ubuntu and debian repositories, and PPAs, so
you can add just what you want, free of most bloat. The live CD is less than
400 meg, just a browser, text editor, software installer (synaptic) and E17,
with several themes to choose from when booting.
Cheers
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It's funny Canonical had captured well over half the Linux market with Ubuntu, how could they possibly come up with such an abomination as 11.04? Perhaps they should call it Ubuntu Linux Vista....
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To be fair 11.04 is not LTS
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Meh - you want speed? replace all of that with a clean install of Arch or ubuntu server and DWM :lol:
Why would I install Ubuntu server, when I can install a Debian base system and apt-get the rest? ;)
Arch linux is awesome, though.
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With a base Debian system you could conceivably install a non-lobotomised version of KDE....
Why would I install Ubuntu server, when I can install a Debian base system and apt-get the rest? ;)
Arch linux is awesome, though.
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I must admit, I dont get the hate for KDE 4.x.
Sure when it came out, it was pretty buggy and unstable but today ? I find 4.5 to be freaking awesome
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With a base Debian system you could conceivably install a non-lobotomised version of KDE....
Absolutely! One could also do what I did with Gnome, and simply run the KDE environment with Openbox as window manager.
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I must admit, I dont get the hate for KDE 4.x.
Sure when it came out, it was pretty buggy and unstable but today ? I find 4.5 to be freaking awesome
KDE 4.6 on Opensuse 11.4 is fantastic. It fits my work flow better than GNOME 2 or OSX 10.6 do.
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Why would I install Ubuntu server, when I can install a Debian base system and apt-get the rest? ;)
Arch linux is awesome, though.
Or just install Slackware.
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I must admit, I dont get the hate for KDE 4.x.
Sure when it came out, it was pretty buggy and unstable but today ? I find 4.5 to be freaking awesome
Because their refusal of the most basic updates of 3.5.10, so it was effectively banned as an option for those who wanted it. The antithesis of linux.
Now, go and use KrummyDeadEelephant4xxx to create a tansparent panel, of the size and orientation you choose, and place your icons and elements on it, where YOU want them, instead of where the K family wants them. :roflmao:
Now do the same with Trinity 3.5.12 :rtfm: (easy money)
When compared to 0sEX, and winxxx, 4.5 and newer versions, may be wonderfully awesome! (us old geezers rezists za change)
Cheers
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The great thing about FOSS is if you want functionality adding to something you can:
A) Add it yourself
B) Pay someone else to do it
C) Beg and plead for someone to do it for free
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For me, its pacman and yaourt. Those two alone are worth it for me.
As for KDE, I don't HATE it... I just could care less about eye candy these days. If I use DWM, I have all my apps mapped to f-keys. Anyways, the only proggies I use most of the time are a terminal (for vim, mplayer, wodim, and other bashy stuffs), firefox, libreoffice and eclipse (or netbeans depending on mood). Oh and sometimes Idle. I don't need much GUI, and to get HD movies to play nice on my P4 with an Nvidia 7000, the less system overhead the better. :lol:
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Or just install Slackware.
Indeed. It's a matter of personal taste, really.