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Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga Software News => Topic started by: System on May 07, 2011, 05:40:01 PM
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Brussels - May 7th, 2011.
Hyperion Entertainment CVBA is pleased to announce that all materials comprising the AmigaOS 4.1 distribution for Amiga 1200/3000/4000 equipped with the appropriate PowerPC based accelerator card (Cyberstorm PPC or BlizzardPPC) have now been completed.
AmigaOS 4.1 brings Amiga1200/3000/4000 the wealth of new functionality which was made available to other supported platforms in August of 2008 - up to and including - Update 2 (http://os4.hyperion-entertainment.biz/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=138:update-2-of-amigaos-41-available-for-immediate-download&catid=36:amigaos-4x&Itemid=18) released on April 30th, 2010.
Hyperion Entertainment invites you to experience the most advanced version of AmigaOS to date and join the ranks of SAM 440/460, AmigaOne and Pegasos II users!
AmigaOS 4.1 will be distributed world-wide by AmigaKit LLC (http://www.amigakit.com/) and will be available from your local dealer very soon. AmigaKit was also instrumental in funding the AmigaOS 4.1 update for the Classics.
More... (http://os4.hyperion-entertainment.biz/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=144:amigaos-41-for-classics-imminent&catid=36:amigaos-4x&Itemid=18)
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truly great news!!!:pint:
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Very nice.
15 years late, but, who's counting.... [install flame retardant suit]
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Great news. :D
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Brussels - May 7th, 2011.
Hyperion Entertainment CVBA is pleased to announce that all materials comprising the AmigaOS 4.1 distribution for Amiga 1200/3000/4000 equipped with the appropriate PowerPC based accelerator card (Cyberstorm PPC or BlizzardPPC) have now been completed.
Could you clarify this time when you say "for Amiga 1200/3000/4000 equipped with the appropriate PowerPC based accelerator card" that this software is useless on such a machine without some form of RTG card as well... :)
Or is this unlike 4.0 (which I bought) and was not told that I would need an RTG card to make it usable along with my BlizzardPPC... :(
So is an RTG card required as well for 4.1 Classic or will it run at decent speed (unlike 4.0) on just an A1200 with a PPC card... thank you... :)
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Looks very nice indeed from what I've seen of it in person.
3D driver for the BVision is a winner for those who have one, as MorphOS never had support for it before they stopped developing the Amiga port.
I wish they'd port the whole of OS4 to 68060 boards, but I know I'm just dreaming! :(
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Could you clarify this time when you say "for Amiga 1200/3000/4000 equipped with the appropriate PowerPC based accelerator card" that this software is useless on such a machine without some form of RTG card as well... :)
Or is this unlike 4.0 (which I bought) and was not told that I would need an RTG card to make it usable along with my BlizzardPPC... :(
So is an RTG card required as well for 4.1 Classic or will it run at decent speed (unlike 4.0) on just an A1200 with a PPC card... thank you... :)
Franko, you've been told a bazillion times that OS4 doesn't automagically remove the performance limitations of the AGA chipset.
Run OS4 in the same screenmode and bitplane depth you run OS3.x and it will be fine.
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So, to run 4.1 I'd need to spend near a grand sourcing a PPC card and paying Hyperion? :(
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nope you could buy a Natami and get Thoms Hirsch to Make you a powerpc cpu card for it
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Could you clarify this time when you say "for Amiga 1200/3000/4000 equipped with the appropriate PowerPC based accelerator card" that this software is useless on such a machine without some form of RTG card as well... :)
Or is this unlike 4.0 (which I bought) and was not told that I would need an RTG card to make it usable along with my BlizzardPPC... :(
So is an RTG card required as well for 4.1 Classic or will it run at decent speed (unlike 4.0) on just an A1200 with a PPC card... thank you... :)
It will run on AGA, and in fact quite a bit of work was done on the Installation process to ensure ECS and AGA would work.
Having said that, the experience with ECS/AGA is nothing compared against the experience with any graphics card. Therefore I would highly recommend a graphics card otherwise I think you would be disappointed.
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So, to run 4.1 I'd need to spend near a grand sourcing a PPC card and paying Hyperion? :(
Unfortunately no company has come to market with a new PPC accelerator for Classic Amigas. If that were to happen I am sure efforts could be made to get AmigaOS 4.1 ported to it.
I personally think there is a market for a new PPC accelerator, but as I said, no company to date has offered one since DCE washed it's hands of all Amiga stuff.
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Franko, you've been told a bazillion times that OS4 doesn't automagically remove the performance limitations of the AGA chipset.
Run OS4 in the same screenmode and bitplane depth you run OS3.x and it will be fine.
Yeah by folks like Karlos, but when I purchased OS 4.0 there was no mention in the advertising or even on the box that I would need an RTG card as well to make it useable... :(
It's simply stated like the first post here an A1200 with PCC card is all that's needed... ;)
How many time do I have to say it, I do run it in standard video modes and no matter what it still runs slower than a one legged tortoise, surely thats not too difficult to understand for the umpteenth time... :rolleyes:
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It will run on AGA, and in fact quite a bit of work was done on the Installation process to ensure ECS and AGA would work.
Having said that, the experience with ECS/AGA is nothing compared against the experience with any graphics card. Therefore I would highly recommend a graphics card otherwise I think you would be disappointed.
Thank you that's all I wanted to know, after my experience with OS4.0 and despite what Karlos & Nicholas claim without an RTG board of some kind OS4.0 was just unusable... :)
So at least now I know OS4.1 is not for me, I only asked because once again it's only being claimed you just need a PPC card and no mention of needing a GFX card, thank you for clearing that up for me... :)
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I'm banking on a Natami with a PPC card. Knowing that Natami is on the horizon, I'm kinda of not wanting to upgrade either of my Amigas any (much) more and just start saving for that. If it had a PPC expansion, I'd be in 7th heaven me thinks.
Of course they could just learn from the MorphOS team, get their heads out of their asses, and port OS 4.1 to old PPC macs so everyone can afford to join in on the fun...
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Thank you that's all I wanted to know, after my experience with OS4.0 and despite what Karlos & Nicholas claim without an RTG board of some kind OS4.0 was just unusable... :)
So at least now I know OS4.1 is not for me, I only asked because once again it's only being claimed you just need a PPC card and no mention of needing a GFX card, thank you for clearing that up for me... :)
It's been years since I ran the beta but it was fine in eight colours, no worse than 3.x on the same machine performance wise.
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I'm banking on a Natami with a PPC card. Knowing that Natami is on the horizon, I'm kinda of not wanting to upgrade either of my Amigas any (much) more and just start saving for that. If it had a PPC expansion, I'd be in 7th heaven me thinks.
Of course they could just learn from the MorphOS team, get their heads out of their asses, and port OS 4.1 to old PPC macs so everyone can afford to join in on the fun...
+1 to that!
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...Of course they could just learn from the MorphOS team, get their heads out of their asses, and port OS 4.1 to old PPC macs so everyone can afford to join in on the fun...
but this is about keeping our classic systems going and up to date and not about keeping old macs out of the garbage dumps:angry:
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..So at least now I know OS4.1 is not for me, I only asked because once again it's only being claimed you just need a PPC card and no mention of needing a GFX card, thank you for clearing that up for me... :)
Franko, I'm shocked that you have this attitude because I know how much you enjoy your "real" Amiga systems and this news definitely pumps in new life into the old girls! heck I was hoping you would program some new stuff for the upcoming OS4.2 release;)
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Could you clarify this time when you say...
You're talking to the news bot...
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truly great news!!!:pint:
shhhh u old duffer this top secret message from brussels sprouts oh yuk dont like them
But love amiga os 4.1 with some chesse sauce yum yum
Oh love ya cammy hehe no reason needed hehe
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Yeah by folks like Karlos, but when I purchased OS 4.0 there was no mention in the advertising or even on the box that I would need an RTG card as well to make it useable... :(
It's simply stated like the first post here an A1200 with PCC card is all that's needed... ;)
How many time do I have to say it, I do run it in standard video modes and no matter what it still runs slower than a one legged tortoise, surely thats not too difficult to understand for the umpteenth time... :rolleyes:
yes your so right mate send back your card and os for me to check this out
Please send pre paid envolope to am greeddy so and so care of actungbaby
And i look into it for you wink wink nudge nudge how your father
i swap your ppc card for 3 ps3 60gb that sony shalfted me that cant go online
thaNKS TO GUTTLESS bunch B ankers calling themsleves anymous
i just say u want stay thaT WAY CAUSE LIKE TO DEEP FRY YOUR PRIVATES
i REKON SONY FBI SHOULD LEAVE justice to the psn network users
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@ kik300r
How can it pump life into real Amiga when once again it's going to be slower than a dead donkey unless you have a GFX card... :(
Nah... afraid this aint the holy grail I've been looking for... ;)
@Karlos
I bet it doesn't mind though, I'll talk to anyone who cares to listen (or not) whichever the case may be... :)
Anyway these bot thingies need attention too, I recall a wee while back you posted a link to some bot thingy that you could have a conversation with to try and prove if it was a bot or a real people, spoke to it for hours so I did then me Mac froze up... :(
@ actung_bab
Howdee Doody mate... :)
I would send you it but it's such a burden looking after one of these things I couldn't let you suffer that, so I'll keep it for now and maybe leave it to you in me will... :)
PS: PS3 aint for me I'm afraid, got no Amiga badge on it... ;)
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Hey Franko somebody here in the forums searched for OS4 for classics - probably you both can settle an agreement?
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Native Deneb driver is mentioned as a possible future update, wonder if it will even happen...
What were CyberstormPPC's going for on eBay again ? Nah forget it, I wish I could but I think I'll pass..
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Hey Franko somebody here in the forums searched for OS4 for classics - probably you both can settle an agreement?
Erm... solly me no understandy the question... :confused:
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@ kik300r
How can it pump life into real Amiga when once again it's going to be slower than a dead donkey unless you have a GFX card... :(
Nah... afraid this aint the holy grail I've been looking for... ;)
ah c'mon I've read your posts where you say that you buy all kinds of junk off EBay so why not buy a GFX card for your miggies mate (or at least trade some of that junk for one):confused:
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@ Franko
I know you probably want to keep your A1200 in the "wedge", but seriously consider putting it in a tower with a Mediator board and a good Radeon card.
I use a 256MB Radeon card in my A4000 to give me some very nippy 1920x1080 displays. Before that card arrived I tried it with a 1 or 2MB no-name ViRGE card yanked out of an old Pentium PC and that worked quite nicely with the standard ViRGE driver.
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Good news for the Amiga users that have Amiga Classic with PPC boards, only that they will can enjoy the new software for OS 4.1 more slowly than the Amiga user with new hardware.
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Mmm, nothing like those pre-announcements of upcoming announcements! :p ;)
BTW, Will this update be free for existing 4.0 users?
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Could you clarify this time when you say "for Amiga 1200/3000/4000 equipped with the appropriate PowerPC based accelerator card" that this software is useless on such a machine without some form of RTG card as well... :)
Or is this unlike 4.0 (which I bought) and was not told that I would need an RTG card to make it usable along with my BlizzardPPC... :(
So is an RTG card required as well for 4.1 Classic or will it run at decent speed (unlike 4.0) on just an A1200 with a PPC card... thank you... :)
Why buy a PPC card and not also a BVision? I bought my BlizzardPPC mostly to be able to use a graphics card. Makes no sense to whine about it since everybody knows AGA is slow as hell.
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@ kix300r
And how many times have I said in my posts that I have never been able to but a BVision board to go with the BPCC... :(
I've only seen two on eBay in the past 4 or 5 years and was outbid on them both... :(
@ Darrin
My main A1200 is in a tower (I've posted pics of it many times and it can also be seen in my profile page). The desktop A1200s are mainly only used for testing purposes with their different accelerator boards... :)
After spending nearly 500 quid to buy the BlizzardPPC then I aint wasting any more money on a mediator set up, much rather wait for the NatAmi which seems better suited to me... :)
@ fryguy
Well that's a no-brainer... cos it didn't come with a BVision in the sale... ;)
AGA isn't slow as hell, you must be doing it wrong or only have chipmem on your set up... ;)
PS: I aint whining about 4.1 I was simply asking if it still (like 4.0) required a GFX card to make it useable, simple enough question and simple enought ti understand... :)
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BTW, Will this update be free for existing 4.0 users?
What, just like 3.1 was a free update for existing 3.0 users, you mean? ;)
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PS: I aint whining about 4.1 I was simply asking if it still (like 4.0) required a GFX card to make it useable, simple enough question and simple enought ti understand... :)
Simple answer to your simple question: Yes, you need a graphics card if you want the best experience.
IMO, in this regard, it's no different to 4.0, 3.9, 3.5 and 3.1. You may *think* that 3.x runs fine without RTG and so did I until I got my first RTG card (the BVision as it happens) for my A1200 back in late '98. I was using 3.1 back then and the difference it was more significant than any other expansion since my first hard drive. Even more than my first accelerator card.
It's fair to say I haven't even used a later version of AmigaOS without a graphics card. After using workbench or even just a shell on a fast, high-resolution flickerless display you are immediately spoilt and can't go back.
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@ Karlos
Hmm.... I clearly recall a wee while back you "thought" that it was just me who "thought" that OS 4.0 didn't perform well on an A1200 without GFX card... ;)
My main towered up A1200 (with the BPPC/060) runs in 3.5 and I'm very happy with it's performance on the 060 side. I've seen videos of RTG boards in action and while impressive they wouldn't be a major benefit to myself and my uses, for me the most important and useful upgrades ever were the 060 and 256MB of RAM... :)
Over many, many years I honed my systems to run at their best for which ever processor and amount of RAM they are using, I've never understood the complaint from folk about interlaced modes, set the palette up correctly and some adjustment to your monitor and they are fine for the occasional use that I have for them... :)
(I run about 95% of the time in 640 x 256 in 128 colours and that to me is the perfect set up for my needs on a miggy)... :)
Even nearly a year on I still cant get used to this iMac screen and it's LCD display much prefer my old CRT displays and Amiga resolutions for computer work, probably just down to 30 years of using CRT since the days of my first VIC 20 and tweaking and setting up things to get the best out of them... :)
Only thing that I really would like to see for the Amiga in future is basically what the NatAmi has to offer, just hope they have a proper RGB output that I can use on my old CRT monitors, as LCD displays I just don't like mainly due to the poor scrolling qualities and limited viewing angles (though the contrast has improved on them over the years)... :)
At the end of the day, each to their own I say if your happy with it then that's all that should matter, gigahertz of speed and millions of colours at once is not a requirement for me and my Amiga... :)
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@ Karlos
Hmm.... I clearly recall a wee while back you "thought" that it was just me who "thought" that OS 4.0 didn't perform well on an A1200 without GFX card... ;)
Then your recollection is failing you, isn't it? You stated that it ran so slowly as to be completely unusable. Exaggerated remarks along the line of a crippled tortoise or something to that effect. In response to which, I pointed out that it is no more or less usable without a graphics card than 3.x is. If you try to use 3.x on AGA in 256 colours on a DblPAL display with solid window dragging and sizing enabled, it's every bit as agonizing as anything 4.0 does on AGA.
If, on the other hand, you apply the same common sense that years of working with AGA *should* have taught you, you will immediately turn off all the 4.0 features that are clearly aimed at RTG displays, including but not limited to, all gradients, font antialiasing, RGB icons, solid window sizing / dragging and what not. If you do this and return to a good old 4-16 colour WB display with OS3.x style icons, you'll see that it's much improved performance wise. As part of testing, I've done this and can verify that it is the case. There are even pictures in the gallery here of my it running in that configuration back in 2004:
http://www.amiga.org/gallery/index.php?n=3135
http://www.amiga.org/gallery/index.php?n=3136
The above was absolutely no different in performance than it was on the 040 and significantly faster at anything CPU-bound.
Unfortunately, many - yourself seemingly included - laboured under some delusion that your 160-240 MHz PPC was going to totally mitigate the limitations of the 20 year old AGA hardware it was attached to and deliver an experience unmatched by your 68K. It wasn't, it was never going to and it never will, end of story. If you needed to be told that then you can't be anything like as well versed in amiga hardware as you would have us believe.
If 4.0 classic made a major mistake it was in assuming that anybody using it would have had RTG and basing the default installation options around that. It should have included a "my planar-only display hardware is old enough to vote" option that would have installed for a basic 8-colour configuration with all of the above adjustments already made.
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@ Karlos
Once again nothing but your own personal opinions on this (just as my posts are). My remarks in regard to the the slowness of OS4.0 in my case are not "Exaggerated". As I already in the past told you I tried your suggestions but they made little or no difference to the speed or performance... :)
I was under no "Delusion" of any kind but was sold a product that failed to mention in any of the advertising or even on the box that a GFX card was required to get it to perform at a decent speed, all that was ever stated both in the advertising and on the very box itself was that a PPC board was required, not one single word about requiring a GFX card... ;)
So there was no "Delusions" on my part, more like false advertising on the sellers part... ;)
I laugh at how you always like to say "end of story" as if your word is the be all and end all of any given subject, time you got your head out of your rear end and realised your not the only one around here who knows about the Amigas capabilities... :)
As for your last trite comment in that post, OS4.0 was sold as only requiring a PPC board nothing ever mentioned about a GFX card so from that it's perfectly reasonable to assume from the details given by the seller that if all you need is a PPC accelerator and the OS is written in native PPC code then it would be reasonable to assume the it would run faster than even an specifically written 060 piece of code... :p
So as usual on this subject your comments are typically flawed and based on nothing but you own opinions , so please stop with the high and mighty act that your word is somehow better than anyone else's and your "end of story" nonsense you like state so often is a cop out for things you have no answer too... ;)
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I laugh at how you always like to say "end of story" as if your word is the be all and end all of any given subject, time you got your head out of your rear end and realised your not the only one around here who knows about the Amigas capabilities... :)
I think you might want to take a look at the credits on OS4.
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@ Karlos
Once again nothing but your own personal opinions on this (just as my posts are). My remarks in regard to the the slowness of OS4.0 in my case are not "Exaggerated". As I already in the past told you I tried your suggestions but they made little or no difference to the speed or performance... :)
I was under no "Delusion" of any kind but was sold a product that failed to mention in any of the advertising or even on the box that a GFX card was required to get it to perform at a decent speed, all that was ever stated both in the advertising and on the very box itself was that a PPC board was required, not one single word about requiring a GFX card... ;)
So there was no "Delusions" on my part, more like false advertising on the sellers part... ;)
I laugh at how you always like to say "end of story" as if your word is the be all and end all of any given subject, time you got your head out of your rear end and realised your not the only one around here who knows about the Amigas capabilities... :)
As for your last trite comment in that post, OS4.0 was sold as only requiring a PPC board nothing ever mentioned about a GFX card so from that it's perfectly reasonable to assume from the details given by the seller that if all you need is a PPC accelerator and the OS is written in native PPC code then it would be reasonable to assume the it would run faster than even an specifically written 060 piece of code... :p
So as usual on this subject your comments are typically flawed and based on nothing but you own opinions , so please stop with the high and mighty act that your word is somehow better than anyone else's and your "end of story" nonsense you like state so often is a cop out for things you have no answer too... ;)
wow, Frankie! run out of meds! :-)
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I think you might want to take a look at the credits on OS4.
WHY... if Karlos is on there is still doesn't change a thing I've said, it's only his opinion and nothing else just as what I have said is my opinion and nothing else...
I asked a question here which HammerD answered perfectly for me but Karlos for some reason stuck his big nose in with his usual attitude he has these days of trying to belittle things folks say...
Unfortunately you're not allowed to put moderators on your ignore list otherwise I would have had Karlos on mine for the past couple of months, as since my wee argument with Red I find Karlos attitude towards me has drastically changed since I first came to this site...
Simple point is, I got my answer from HammerD and replied saying thank you and that's all I needed to know but yourself and Karlos seem to want to try and draw me into some kind of argument about something I no longer have an interest in and cant grasp the simple concept of what I clearly stated in my earlier posts in this thread...
Now as neither of you can seem to grasp that simple concept then to use one of Karlos favourite sayings...
END OF STORY... ;)
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@ Karlos
Once again nothing but your own personal opinions on this (just as my posts are).
Your posts may be your personal opinion but mine are based on my experience. I tend not to rely on opinion when I can just get data from physical testing and I tested 4.0 before release and ran many like-for-like comparisons against 3.1, 3.5 and 3.9 on my system. I don't have the tables in front of me, but I can well remember the overall observations:
* OS4 graphics performance on AGA was on par with AGA + 68040 running fblit for most graphics.library drawing operations. Some faster, some slower. Access to Chip RAM is evidently the bottleneck for both. The 68040 scored slightly higher in raw memory transfer tests to ChipRAM than the PPC (both on 3.x/WarpOS and OS4) so theoretically it could be a bit faster for certain rendering operations.
* CPU-bound performance for PPC native recompilations of code was anywhere from 3-10x faster than their 68040 counterparts on OS3.x depending on how much memory access versus computation was involved in their inner loops. Figures for floating-point heavy code were higher still.
* CPU-bound performance for non-JIT 68K applications were typically lower (the slowest I managed in a synthetic worst-case test was about 1/10th the speed) but in normal cases not unusably so.
* CPU-bound performance for JIT 68K applications were typically on par or faster (wide variation in results) with the 68040. Some synthetic tests showed emulated 68K performance approaching native speed, but real code tends not to be that well "tuned".
* DiskIO-bound performance via the onboard IDE was on par with 68040, again, entirely as expected since the hardware interface is the bottleneck.
* NetworkIO-bound performance with large file transfers via Roadshow using the 68020 cnet.device was about 30% faster than AmiTCP4 on 68040 using the exact same version of the cnet.device.
And here's the rub. Most of the time you aren't even running CPU bound code, your applications are waiting for something. An InputEvent or timer interrupt or whatever. It's only when you start doing something intensive, like decoding a datatype that you really notice the difference that your 4-fold increase in clockspeed, bigger caches and faster FPU have given you.
Then again, you did say you found the latter (datatypes) to be one of the worst things ever invented and go to lengths to avoid using them so assuming you were sticking to old 68K applications that might in turn be running interpretively on your emulated 020, perhaps you are experiencing sub-par performance. But if that is true, then it's clearly a PEBKAC issue.
My remarks in regard to the the slowness of OS4.0 in my case are not "Exaggerated". As I already in the past told you I tried your suggestions but they made little or no difference to the speed or performance... :)
Then you need to dig and find out why, because your experience is clearly strange, at least from where I am standing. Look at it this way: You have a CPU that is potentially several times faster than your 68K for almost any operation but is, according to you, turning in slower performance. This, on a playing field you claim to have levelled by removing all the RTG intended eye candy as per my suggestions previously. Now, if that was the case for everybody else then you could comfortably say that something was inherently wrong with the OS and it's just really slow and I'd have no choice but to agree with you.
However, you have another user (in this case me) that has used the same OS on equivalent hardware and has not reproduced your experience when doing the same thing. Even the most elementary Sherlock Holmes moment should make you stop to consider "perhaps something is up with my configuration, after all it isn't that different to his".
If it was *my* system that was crawling, especially after making all reasonable changes to the configuration to mitigate the AGA performance issues and someone else was insisting that better performance was achievable I'd be pulling my rig apart to find out what the problem is.
I was under no "Delusion" of any kind but was sold a product that failed to mention in any of the advertising or even on the box that a GFX card was required to get it to perform at a decent speed,
I'm pretty damned sure it was advertised as recommending a graphics card, certainly everywhere I looked. In the same way that most software cites a minimum specification it can physically run on but that's about it. It's not even as if it was the first version of AmigaOS that this was true for:
http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/os35.html
Mid-range performance
68030 or higher processor
8 MB Fast RAM
Graphics accelerator and/or scandoubler
Modem
In case you missed it, a "graphics accelerator" was the parlance back then for an RTG supported graphics card. Is there any reason at all to assume a later OS would go backwards in requirements?
all that was ever stated both in the advertising and on the very box itself was that a PPC board was required, not one single word about requiring a GFX card... ;)
So there was no "Delusions" on my part, more like false advertising on the sellers part... ;)
Strange, I always assume the minimum specification stated on any product is what you'll need for it to simply run but have no expectations beyond that. For instance, had I not have gotten the RTG card, I categorically *would not* have bought either OS3.5 or 3.9, since whilst they both work without, it's abundantly clear you get much more out of it with.
I laugh at how you always like to say "end of story" as if your word is the be all and end all of any given subject, time you got your head out of your rear end and realised your not the only one around here who knows about the Amigas capabilities... :)
I never claimed I was the "only one that knows about the Amigas capabilities", but I do know that OS4.0 runs as well on my AGA installation as 3.x does *if* I spend time messing around with it's configuration.
As for your last trite comment in that post, OS4.0 was sold as only requiring a PPC board nothing ever mentioned about a GFX card so from that it's perfectly reasonable to assume from the details given by the seller that if all you need is a PPC accelerator and the OS is written in native PPC code then it would be reasonable to assume the it would run faster than even an specifically written 060 piece of code... :p
It can, except when it's struggling to access your chip RAM for any reason whatsoever. Look, there's a bloody good reason why Phase5 put an expansion slot on the accelerator board and it came as no surprise to anybody owning one that the first device they released for it was a graphics card, then a PCI busboard. By far the biggest bottleneck on the card is the trapdoor slot that connects it to the motherboard (and thus the Chip RAM). If you thought the 68060 was penalized when writing to Chip RAM, it gets off lightly. In the time it takes your PPC to do just one 32-bit write to chip ram it could literally have executed a dozen or more instructions.
So as usual on this subject your comments are typically flawed and based on nothing but you own opinions , so please stop with the high and mighty act that your word is somehow better than anyone else's and your "end of story" nonsense you like state so often is a cop out for things you have no answer too... ;)
No, they are based on my experience, which as I've said is contrary to yours. However, there's no obvious reason at all why your system should be slower than mine, as far as I know the PPC chip is the same basic speed (240MHz?). If the software can perform acceptably on mine, then it must be capable of doing so on yours or anybody else's.
There were plenty of things wrong with 4.0 classic, especially in terms of support for hardware available to 3.x users, but basic performance for processor intensive tasks was not one of them.
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I think you might want to take a look at the credits on OS4.
Erm, I'm pretty sure I'm not listed anywhere in there, but I was a tester back in the early days of 4.0 classic.
I can neither confirm nor deny rumours that I have 4.1 classic running right now :lol:
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Erm, I'm pretty sure I'm not listed anywhere in there, but I was a tester back in the early days of 4.0 classic.
I can neither confirm nor deny rumours that I have 4.1 classic running right now :lol:
Modest to the end! ;)
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I asked a question here which HammerD answered perfectly for me but Karlos for some reason stuck his big nose in with his usual attitude he has these days of trying to belittle things folks say...
I think you'll find I answered your question perfectly reasonably too, stating that certainly from your perspective it would not be any fun without a graphics card:
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=636544&postcount=33
You were the one that dragged this argument back up when you said:
Hmm.... I clearly recall a wee while back you "thought" that it was just me who "thought" that OS 4.0 didn't perform well on an A1200 without GFX card...
I've always been totally consistent on this front, so if you thought you could make that statement and have it go unchallenged, then that was your mistake.
Unfortunately you're not allowed to put moderators on your ignore list otherwise I would have had Karlos on mine for the past couple of months, as since my wee argument with Red I find Karlos attitude towards me has drastically changed since I first came to this site...
Yes, I'm sure we're all just out to get you :lol:
If it's any consolation I don't think moderators even have a working ignore list. Of course, it would be a bad idea if we did...
END OF STORY... ;)
:)
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@ Karlos
When it comes to the use of OS4.0 could you please understand what I am about to say here... :)
Without going over all the technical deatails and ins and outs of the whole subject, it breaks down as this for me...
I purchased OS4.O when it first came out to use with the very same BlizzardPPC board you own, only difference being I do not have the BVision card for it.
I upgraded OS4.0 wth the only upgrade ever released for it...
Despite trying everything my many years of using the Amiga had taught me, nothing I could do would make the thing run at what I personally consider to be an acceptable speed from the very basic things like drawing the Icons on the Workbench screen to the resizing of windows, it was and still is like running an Amiga with chipmem only...
I even tried the advice you gave me a while back and the result was only very slightly better but not good enough in comparison to running 3.5 on the 060 side of things...
I simply asked the question here if 4.1 would be any different in the hope that there had been a significant improvement in speed to use on a set up like mine, to which HammerD kindly pointed out that there wouldn't be...
There is nothing wrong with my BlizzardPPC card as it runs PowerUP application perfectly and at what I regard as blistering speed, For example Frodo the C64 emulator, full screen, full speed, no frame skip and full audio all without the use of an RTG card and using native AGA screenmodes, something which can't be achieved using OS4.0 on my set up...
So for me 4.0 is useless and it would appear so is 4.1 unless I ever mange to get hold of a Bvision board, the last one I heard of was the one you so kindly informed me about when I had left the site a while back but unfortunately I never heard from the chap who was selling it...
My only use for OS4.0 these days (and has been for a number of years now) is to use the program AmiDVD to create DVD ISO images as I've never got round to finishing my own ISO creator on the 68K side of things. I use my own DVD burning utils that I wrote for the 68K side as AmiDVD on OS4.0 on my set up is just over a third slower at burning DVS in comparison to my own...
So please understand now I have the answer that OS4.1 is of no use to me, I really have no interest in taking part in arguments or debates on my experience of OS4.0 I use it for one sole purpose as stated and that suits me fine. I really have nothing more I care to say on this subject so would you please stop making posts at me, as I really don't care anymore about the entire subject of OS4.x
Thank you... :)
PS: since you've posted yet again while I was typing this with the comment...
You were the one that dragged this argument back up when you said:
then I should remind you that again you are wrong as you chimed in before I made that post with this post
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=636544&postcount=33
Anyway I've made myself clear enough on this subject, so if you want to carry on with this pointless "debate" and lame attempt at taking this piss feel free, just keep me out of it please... :)
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PS: since you've posted yet again while I was typing this with the comment...
then I should remind you that again you are wrong as you chimed in before I made that post with this post
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=636544&postcount=33
I'm sorry, but what was remotely confrontational in post #33?
Simple answer to your simple question: Yes, you need a graphics card if you want the best experience.
IMO, in this regard, it's no different to 4.0, 3.9, 3.5 and 3.1. You may *think* that 3.x runs fine without RTG and so did I until I got my first RTG card (the BVision as it happens) for my A1200 back in late '98. I was using 3.1 back then and the difference it was more significant than any other expansion since my first hard drive. Even more than my first accelerator card.
It's fair to say I haven't even used a later version of AmigaOS without a graphics card. After using workbench or even just a shell on a fast, high-resolution flickerless display you are immediately spoilt and can't go back.
The first part was a totally matter of fact answer to your question. The second part was my own observation about RTG in general, specifically that it's one of those things you don't realise you're missing until you first use it then wonder how you lived without it. I'm sure I can't be alone in that view.
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Hi,
OMG!!!
My dream has been realized, and to think, just yesterday I was talking to the wife about putting all my Amiga stuff up for sale. First to go would have been my trusty A4000 with it's GVP IV 24, Picasso II, Buddha IDE card, Xsurf internet card, and A3640 accelerator.
Second to go would of been my recently towered A1200 with lyra keyboard adapter, DCE 240 mhz ppc / 68040 40 mhz accelerator.
Well maybe I will hang on to them for a little while longer.
smerf
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Hi,
@Karlos,
Why not just make it a black and white display, then it would really be sped up.
Oh!!
I forgot, you are used to black and white displays, after all you do use a MAC.
smerf
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Hi,
@Karlos,
Why not just make it a black and white display, then it would really be sped up.
Oh!!
I forgot, you are used to black and white displays, after all you do use a MAC.
smerf
You're confusing me with someone else. I haven't used a Mac since OSX 10.3 and that wasn't through choice, either. The only mac prior to that I used was an emulated one on my A1200 to write up my final year thesis.
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I think its because of all these similare avatars maybe we should change
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Will SerialATA PCI cards work with Mediator1200? My friends are interested on that due to OS4 lack of compatibility with AmigaOS scsi drivers.
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Will SerialATA PCI cards work with Mediator1200? My friends are interested on that due to OS4 lack of compatibility with AmigaOS scsi drivers.
Yes, sorry that was missed on the press release. There is support for the silicon image 3512, 3112, and 3114 controllers and also the 0680 IDE controller (firestorm only).
In the hardware FAQ that comes with AmigaOS 4.1 Classic it will tell you all the details. There is also a handy file system reference chart to help you select the best file system to use, too.
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Yes, sorry that was missed on the press release. There is support for the silicon image 3512, 3112, and 3114 controllers and also the 0680 IDE controller (firestorm only).
In the hardware FAQ that comes with AmigaOS 4.1 Classic it will tell you all the details. There is also a handy file system reference chart to help you select the best file system to use, too.
I bet 68k PFS5.3 will be the best on OS4.1 compared to any of the other filesystems.
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I bet 68k PFS5.3 will be the best on OS4.1 compared to any of the other filesystems.
PFS isn't included with OS 4.1 and recent news about it came out after the FAQ and Install Guide was written...but by all means give it a try :) I'd like to see some benchmarks!
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"imminent"? So, it's not out yet?
Come on, this is friggin ridiculous. Just another pre-announcement.
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"imminent"? So, it's not out yet?
Come on, this is friggin ridiculous. Just another pre-announcement.
It's finished, should be available for sale next week or this week. CD's are being duplicated now. Check http://www.amigakit.com - should be showing up there in about 8 days for purchase.
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I think its because of all these similare avatars maybe we should change
Problem?
:lol:
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"imminent"? So, it's not out yet?
Come on, this is friggin ridiculous. Just another pre-announcement.
I might buy it and I don't even have a BPPC anymore.
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I might buy it and I don't even have a BPPC anymore.
Hmmm... CSPPC?
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Erm... solly me no understandy the question... :confused:
I mean: Someone mourned that he cannot get his hands on an copy of OS4.0 for the classics. Probably you want to sell yours to him and probably he wants to buy it (SMERF)?
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JurassicC has posted some additional details on AmigaOS 4.1 Classic.
Worth a read here: http://www.amigans.net/modules/xforum/viewtopic.php?post_id=62077#forumpost62077
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JurassicC has posted some additional details on AmigaOS 4.1 Classic.
I read all that post, but even now, over a month after release, Classic OS4.1 was released about 17-5-2011 as far as I am aware, and since then I haven't seen any Classic OS4.1 user say that their A1200 is working with a SOLO-1 soundcard, or SATA card, and some people are still having problems with Radeon cards even though they work under OS3.9 in their Mediator setups.
So far Classic OS4.1 does not seem to be doing much better than Classic OS4.0, unless someone can prove differently. I'd really be interested for someone else to be able to wave the flag of success, but I haven't really seen anything obviously better, as there is very little additional hardware that's supposed to be compatable, but that hardware, in any case, doesn't seem to work in a usable way.
I think some A4000 users are having better times, but the humble A1200 user is not getting much compatability with their PPC hardware. Anyone know differently?
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This lack of further updated information from any Amiga users buying/installing Classic OS4.1 is extremely disheartening.
I am not considering buying it as yet, as I bought Classic OS4.0, and regretted it, due to the many hardware OS driver, support problems, and that's the only time that has happened with any Amiga OS I have paid for.
In fact, it only seems to re-inforce my worst suspicions that Classic OS4.1 is best avoided until there is sufficient headway made for reliability and hardware support that actually works for all the Classic hardware, and more specifically when it relates to the supported PCI hardware, and even more specifically for the A1200s that disappointingly still does not seem to work for all Mediator boards.