Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: Franko on May 03, 2011, 03:54:56 PM
Title: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Franko on May 03, 2011, 03:54:56 PM
Ok... as I reckon after trying to contact the various companies that allegedly hold the rights to distribute the various Workbench Disk Sets and not receiving one dicky bird or even one iota of a response from any of them in regard to purchasing a licence that would allow me to legally distribute "Workbench" freely online via my websites. then...
It's time for me to go ahead and place them openly on the homepage of CommodoreScotland.com... :)
So why am I posting this here, well for a number of reasons...
1) Firstly (before I do so) to see if anyone here knows of any company that I should still try to contact to obtain a licence who they think may genuinely be able to sell or issue me with such a licence/rights... :)
2) To ask the site owners here (and the mods), please do not to remove my CommodoreScotland.com link in my signature again WHEN I make the Workbench disk sets available for download on my site under the claims that this is piracy. As I have done all that I can to legally obtain a distribution licence from all alleged owners. If the so called owners or whomever still allegedly has the rights to either sell/issue or deny me a distribution licence fail to respond to all contact I have tried to make then I can only reasonably assume that they don't have the rights to sell me such a licence or don't care that I distribute them... :)
3) To let the copyright mafia that lurk about this site know that if you have any complaints about me doing this then please do not complain to the moderators or site owners here but feel free to inform or take it up with whom you believe to be the current copyright holders of the Amiga Workbench Disk Sets... :)
So unless the site owners here object or anyone can help me contact someone who can genuinely sell/issue me with a distribution licence then in a few days time all versions of the Workbench Disk Sets from 1.3 to 3.1 will be available to download freely from Commodorescotland.com ... :)
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Darrin on May 03, 2011, 03:56:51 PM
Have you tried asking H&P for a license to OS3.9?
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Franko on May 03, 2011, 03:59:24 PM
Quote from: Darrin;635105
Have you tried asking H&P for a license to OS3.9?
No... for the simple reasons that OS3.9 can still be purchased online and therefore is still a commercial money making product that can be obtained easily and legally enough... :)
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Darrin on May 03, 2011, 04:04:13 PM
Quote from: Franko;635107
No... for the simple reasons that OS3.9 can still be purchased online and therefore is still a commercial money making product that can be obtained easily and legally enough... :)
even if it is overpriced. :D
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Franko on May 03, 2011, 04:05:41 PM
Quote from: Darrin;635108
even if it is overpriced. :D
Agree on the price... but at least it can still be purchased/obtained easily enough... ;)
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: dammy on May 03, 2011, 04:06:21 PM
Quote from: Franko;635107
No... for the simple reasons that OS3.9 can still be purchased online and therefore is still a commercial money making product that can be obtained easily and legally enough... :)
You can download the WB 1.x-3.x via Amiga Forever purchase as well.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: bloodline on May 03, 2011, 04:08:18 PM
Quote from: Franko;635110
Agree on the price... but at least it can still be purchased/obtained easily enough... ;)
Workbench/AmigaOS 1.x- 3.1 can be legally bought as part of the Amiga Forever package! Hoist by your own petard!
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Darrin on May 03, 2011, 04:09:05 PM
Actually I just did a search to find someone who actually sells it and gave up after 5 pages of "free downloads".
Even Amigakit don't have it in stock.
It makes me wonder when the last time a real OS3.9 CD was pressed.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Franko on May 03, 2011, 04:10:34 PM
Quote from: dammy;635111
You can download the WB 1.x-3.x via Amiga Forever purchase as well.
True... but I wish to make them available for free and do not agree with folk having to pay for a download. Amiga Forever is fine if you're happy to pay for a physical product and I have even purchased it myself (although I have never used it)...;)
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: save2600 on May 03, 2011, 04:11:42 PM
Quote from: Franko;635110
Agree on the price... but at least it can still be purchased/obtained easily enough... ;)
Q: Are silver CD's of OS3.9 still being "pressed" by H&P or somebody else? Or are retailers still selling NOS versions they purchased years ago?
And then there's the Update 2 OS3.9 disc... who distributes those and are they silver or burned on CD-R?
Franko, if you're not able to do 3.9, what about 3.5?
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Franko on May 03, 2011, 04:13:47 PM
Quote from: bloodline;635112
Workbench/AmigaOS 1.x- 3.1 can be legally bought as part of the Amiga Forever package! Hoist by your own petard!
I know that and anyone with eyes knows that, I have nothing against Amiga Forever I just want folk to be able to easily download for FREE the Amiga Workbench Disk Sets when they need them... :)
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Franko on May 03, 2011, 04:16:35 PM
Quote from: save2600;635115
Q: Are silver CD's of OS3.9 still being "pressed" by H&P or somebody else? Or are retailers still selling NOS versions they purchased years ago?
And then there's the Update 2 OS3.9 disc... who distributes those and are they silver or burned on CD-R?
Franko, if you're not able to do 3.9, what about 3.5?
To be honest 3.9 & 3.5 distribution doesn't interest me at this point in time, Id rather just stick to 3.1 and lower and have them easily available on the net for old hands and newcomers alike... :)
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: save2600 on May 03, 2011, 04:22:41 PM
Quote from: Franko;635117
To be honest 3.9 & 3.5 distribution doesn't interest me at this point in time, Id rather just stick to 3.1 and lower and have them easily available on the net for old hands and newcomers alike... :)
I see. I was just curious as to who all would care about 3.5 anymore. I could see people downloading and giving it a try for a while, but seems most would ultimately want to move to 3.9.
1.x and 3.x have a lot more relevancy to 'em in getting old legacy machines (that didn't come with the disks as they're bought 2nd/3rd/4th hand these days) to do much of anything.
As an aside, I wonder if M$ would care about people downloading MSDOS, Win3.1, etc. anymore? Apple with their olden OS's. OR is it just the Amiga community that gets their undies in a bunch of this kind of thing? :lol:
(Atari folks don't seem to give as much of a hoot A8 or ST wise either)
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: dammy on May 03, 2011, 04:23:14 PM
Quote from: Franko;635116
I know that and anyone with eyes knows that, I have nothing against Amiga Forever I just want folk to be able to easily download for FREE the Amiga Workbench Disk Sets when they need them... :)
I'm still wondering who gave you the right to do that? Now if you can prove in court that AI doesn't own the license to WB/KS and Hyperion's license is null and void, now that would be a horse of a different color.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: commodorejohn on May 03, 2011, 04:25:30 PM
Applause to Franko, and rude noises to the copyright natterers. That's all I have to say.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: TheBilgeRat on May 03, 2011, 04:27:18 PM
Quote from: dammy;635120
I'm still wondering who gave you the right to do that? Now if you can prove in court that AI doesn't own the license to WB/KS and Hyperion's license is null and void, now that would be a horse of a different color.
Seriously, Dammy, give it a rest. CUSA is selling gangbusters, they'll have their Linux/Workbench spin done in no time, and you can proudly trumpet that their boxes are teh true successors of the Commodoar line. How's about you leave us old tired farts alone who wish to play with our toys from 1992?
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: cv643d on May 03, 2011, 04:29:10 PM
Prepare to get ur ass sued off by that Hyperion lawyer :-)
Too bad, its going to be a quiet forum here in the future ;-)
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Franko on May 03, 2011, 04:33:57 PM
Quote from: dammy;635120
I'm still wondering who gave you the right to do that? Now if you can prove in court that AI doesn't own the license to WB/KS and Hyperion's license is null and void, now that would be a horse of a different color.
Read my first post again a bit more carefully, no has given me the right to do anything but I have done all I can within reason to try and obtain a distribution licence... ;)
So if you want to prove something in court feel free to do so but I have no reason to believe you legally own these rights or have the ability to sell or issue me with a distribution licence, at the end of the day it's your money you'll be spending on court proceedings so go speak to your lawyers now and start your proceedings... :)
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: ChaosLord on May 03, 2011, 04:35:41 PM
Quote from: TheBilgeRat;635122
Seriously, Dammy, give it a rest.
+1
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Franko on May 03, 2011, 04:36:11 PM
Quote from: cv643d;635123
Prepare to get ur ass sued off by that Hyperion lawyer :-)
Too bad, its going to be a quiet forum here in the future ;-)
Hyperion have never responded to any of my requests so you're in for a bit of a let down there... ;)
I really wish folk like you would do a bit of research before rattling their gums about things they don't know... :)
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Bamiga2002 on May 03, 2011, 04:46:54 PM
Go Franko! All In! :swords:
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Cool_amigaN on May 03, 2011, 04:48:20 PM
@Franko
Don't even bother with the licenses for 1.x-3.1. It's a almost 2 decades after the initial launch of 3.1 and around 25 years for 1.3; whoever wants to obtain them has already done so, several years ago. Even typing "download Amiga 3.1 OS"" on Google will bring up countless websites that already freely distribute it and no "legitimate" source. Finally, Amiga Forever is not a couple of stock 3.1 ADFs, it's a whole UAE emulation environment headed to more "dedicated" amigans, who want to use a fully functional 3.x emulated system. 1.x-3.1 ADFs are for those who want to periodically launch some OCS/ECS/AGA game for a spin of nostalgia, and that game won't be coming from a "legitimate" source either.
Apart from the above, and on a slightly different matter, partially affiliated with the current subject, some people never cease to surprise me. I can't be sure whether it is hypocrisy or they haven't checked what year do we live in. Will you see any Sega fan complaining for distributing Megadrive's games? No. Will you see any MS follower complaining for distributing Windows 95? No. Will you see Nintendo fan complaining for distributing Game Boy's games? No. What about Atari 2600, or DC, or Jaguar or 3DO? Even the companies behind them (and we are talking for really BIG companies), don't go after the "retro movement". And Amiga 68k is exactly what it can be described as a retro platform. But on Amiga fora every time, someone is going to complain for distributing (let's say) Agony, when even Psygnosis (long before shutting down) didn't even mentioned the word Amiga in their website, clearly indicating that they simply didn't give a fuck.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: bloodline on May 03, 2011, 04:51:05 PM
Quote from: save2600;635119
.
As an aside, I wonder if M$ would care about people downloading MSDOS, Win3.1, etc. anymore? Apple with their olden OS's. OR is it just the Amiga community that gets their undies in a bunch of this kind of thing? :lol:
Microsoft would probably claim patent violation of their FAT12/16/32 patent... Apple released System 7.x for free, it used to be available on their own servers for a while... Gone now, and they really don't care about pre OSX now.
-edit- well poke me with a stick, it is still free on their servers!! http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Software_Updates/English-North_American/Macintosh/System/Older_System/System_7.0.x/
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: dammy on May 03, 2011, 05:11:12 PM
Quote from: TheBilgeRat;635122
Seriously, Dammy, give it a rest. CUSA is selling gangbusters, they'll have their Linux/Workbench spin done in no time, and you can proudly trumpet that their boxes are teh true successors of the Commodoar line. How's about you leave us old tired farts alone who wish to play with our toys from 1992?
I'm not worried about C=USA, it's Cloanto that has my concern. Cloanto donated money to TeamAROS (and perhaps to Power2People since they took over TeamAROS bounties) for development of open source software, including the AROS kickstart bounty. I don't like seeing Cloanto getting screwed for being one of the few commercial companies supporting not only classic Amiga community but AROS community as well. So no, I'm not going to give it a rest.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: TheBilgeRat on May 03, 2011, 05:23:41 PM
Quote from: dammy;635133
I'm not worried about C=USA, it's Cloanto that has my concern. Cloanto donated money to TeamAROS (and perhaps to Power2People since they took over TeamAROS bounties) for development of open source software, including the AROS kickstart bounty. I don't like seeing Cloanto getting screwed for being one of the few commercial companies supporting not only classic Amiga community but AROS community as well. So no, I'm not going to give it a rest.
So...Cloanto donating money to an OpenSource (Open as in free to download and modify) project affects people downloading original commodore OS how? Once Aros68k doesn't suck, don't you think people will flock to it? This isn't about Cloanto or AROS, its about you and Franko. THAT is what I was inferring by giving it a rest. Making up some bullshit reason for your Quixotic campaign doesn't change that fact.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: AmigaHeretic on May 03, 2011, 05:26:13 PM
@Franko
Someone pointed out in another thread that Petro gave Amiga Workbench 3.0 free to the community along time ago.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote from Amiga Format CD #51: AFCD51/+System+/Tools/Workbench/Workbench 3.x/AF_Readme
Here are the DMS archives for the complete Workbench 3.0, in case you haven't got an install disk, or you corrupt your originals. We can't put later versions on because we'd need a licence to do so, but Petro Tyschtschenko has given us permission to include this version of AmigaOS on all AFCDs from now on.
To extract the files, simply have a stack of six disks at the ready for insertion into df0: (or whichever drive you've set up in AFCDPrefs) and then double click on the DMS archive icons. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Files on Amiga Format CD #51: AFCD51/+System+/Tools/Workbench/Workbench 3.x/
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: commodorejohn on May 03, 2011, 05:48:05 PM
Quote from: dammy;635133
I'm not worried about C=USA, it's Cloanto that has my concern. Cloanto donated money to TeamAROS (and perhaps to Power2People since they took over TeamAROS bounties) for development of open source software, including the AROS kickstart bounty. I don't like seeing Cloanto getting screwed for being one of the few commercial companies supporting not only classic Amiga community but AROS community as well. So no, I'm not going to give it a rest.
Once Cloanto offers a copy of WB3.1 for sale unbundled, I will happily purchase it.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Franko on May 03, 2011, 05:54:01 PM
Quote from: AmigaHeretic;635136
@Franko
Someone pointed out in another thread that Petro gave Amiga Workbench 3.0 free to the community along time ago.
@ AmigaHeretic
That's just one of the reasons why I can't understand why the copyright mafia here rattle their gums all the time... :(
I collected and bought all those old AmigaFormat CoverDisk CDs and right up until the last one ever issued with Amiga Format Issue number 136 (AFCD 52) in May 2000 they were indeed giving away freely Workbench 3.0 ... :)
I'm only making sure that I have done all that I need to that would stand up in any court of law as being "reasonable" should anyone who may still own the copyright on them wish to challenge me on the distribution of them, should the need arise... :)
As I am more than satisfied that I have done so and as no-one has responded then I am preparing to make these Workbench Disk Sets available on my sites. Hence the reason for this thread, a last chance for anyone to advise me on contacting anyone who I may have missed in trying to obtain a licence and to ask the site owners, administrators and mods to please not be influenced by the copyright mafia here, who neither own any of the material let alone have a scooby doo about the legality of who may own it and even more so, the simple fact it has nothing to do with them in the first place... :)
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Cool_amigaN on May 03, 2011, 05:57:35 PM
Quote from: TheBilgeRat;635135
So...Cloanto donating money to an OpenSource (Open as in free to download and modify) project affects people downloading original commodore OS how? Once Aros68k doesn't suck, don't you think people will flock to it? This isn't about Cloanto or AROS, its about you and Franko. THAT is what I was inferring by giving it a rest. Making up some bullshit reason for your Quixotic campaign doesn't change that fact.
Do not get into a debate with him. As I have pointed out offering stock 1.x-3.1 ADFs is completely different from selling a complete, fully functional, patched and up to date (as much as possible), amiga emulated environment with lots of extra goodies. No one is going to download 3.1 ADFs just to recreate AF.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Franko on May 03, 2011, 06:01:47 PM
@ Cool_amigaN
Couldn't agree more with you in what you said in your post and as I think I've given enough details and reasons for me doing this, then I'll leave it up to the admins & mods here to decide if the link in my signature to CommodoreScotland.com should be removed when I make this stuff available... :)
Just don't understand why Amiga sites seem to have more than their fare share of these copyright mafia numpties who quite apart from the fact they don't own the stuff they have even less of clue about copyright and don't realise that the rest of us don't give a toss what they have to say... :)
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: pwermonger on May 03, 2011, 06:38:32 PM
My guess is, they will remove it because they should.
You are basically doing an end-around of Cloanto who have done what they should and gotten rights to distribute (and likely had to pay for those rights).
If you intend to distribute it is your duty to get permission from the rights holder(s). if you can't, then you cant distribute legally. End of story. The statement 'I did all I could to try to get it and no one responded or gave it to me' doesn't give you rights by omission. Lack of rights = lack of rights no matter how hard you tried and wether you received a negative response or no response at all.
In short, when seeking rights to distribute, the lack of a response does not equate to an affirmative response.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Franko on May 03, 2011, 06:48:58 PM
Quote from: pwermonger;635155
My guess is, they will remove it because they should.
You are basically doing an end-around of Cloanto who have done what they should and gotten rights to distribute (and likely had to pay for those rights).
If you intend to distribute it is your duty to get permission from the rights holder(s). if you can't, then you cant distribute legally. End of story. The statement 'I did all I could to try to get it and no one responded or gave it to me' doesn't give you rights by omission. Lack of rights = lack of rights no matter how hard you tried and wether you received a negative response or no response at all.
In short, when seeking rights to distribute, the lack of a response does not equate to an affirmative response.
I'll stick with the advice that I've been given over the past two months as I trust these people and It doesn't just come down to a single sentence saying that "I have done all the is reasonable", that is just for this thread to give a basic idea of what I am doing... ;)
I'm pretty sure Cloanto had pay for these distribution rights and I'm more than happy to do so also but it's kinda impossible to pay someone when they don't respond to you or make themselves know in the first place... :)
Perhaps once they are up on the site the copyright owners may finally make themselves known and things can be taken from there... :)
So I'll just say thank you for your "opinion" but I'll stick to the advice I have received from others... :)
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Fats on May 03, 2011, 06:50:58 PM
Quote from: Franko;635104
3) To let the copyright mafia that lurk about this site know that if you have any complaints about me doing this then please do not complain to the moderators or site owners here but feel free to inform or take it up with whom you believe to be the current copyright holders of the Amiga Workbench Disk Sets... :)
I don't mind being called copyright maffia; I will report you if you put material on your site you don't have permission to distribute.
greets, Staf.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: GobanToba on May 03, 2011, 06:57:23 PM
Quote from: pwermonger;635155
My guess is, they will remove it because they should.
You are basically doing an end-around of Cloanto who have done what they should and gotten rights to distribute (and likely had to pay for those rights).
If you intend to distribute it is your duty to get permission from the rights holder(s). if you can't, then you cant distribute legally. End of story. The statement 'I did all I could to try to get it and no one responded or gave it to me' doesn't give you rights by omission. Lack of rights = lack of rights no matter how hard you tried and wether you received a negative response or no response at all.
In short, when seeking rights to distribute, the lack of a response does not equate to an affirmative response.
No one is doing an end around Cloanto. Cloanto is not the only ones with a right to distribute Amiga OS. Is Hyperion doing an end around Cloanto too then? They are distributing AmigaOS. An updated version at that! Are they trying to screw Cloanto?
Petro gave permission for Workbench 3.0 long ago to be distributed free. So he can at least put that up legally.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: GobanToba on May 03, 2011, 06:59:04 PM
Quote from: Fats;635157
I don't mind being called copyright maffia; I will report you if you put material on your site you don't have permission to distribute.
greets, Staf.
Hopefully you'll have some proof instead of basely accusations and assumptions I assume when you report him? I thought not.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Franko on May 03, 2011, 06:59:21 PM
Quote from: Fats;635157
I don't mind being called copyright maffia; I will report you if you put material on your site you don't have permission to distribute.
greets, Staf.
Report me to whom... and why... :confused:
For one thing it is nothing to do with you and for another how do you know that by the time they appear in my site that I will not have the appropriate licence or rights to do so... ;)
So go ahead and report me to whomever you care too, at the end of the day it's none of your business and your time would be better spent elsewhere actually doing something useful for the Amiga community... :)
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Fraggle1 on May 03, 2011, 07:54:22 PM
If memory serves, the copyright mafia started when the Amiga was still a popular home computer, citing "Piracy is killing the Amiga" as their cause, & while I believe that those still developing for the Amiga deserve our support I can't see how distributing 1.x - 3.1 constitutes piracy today. Who could claim to be losing revenue ? All the same, I know it's not as simple as that because copyright law would still have been technically broken.
The problem here (as I see it) is that the period of time that copyright is granted for has been outstripped by the advance of technology & the "Digital Age", which has rendered obsolete a timeframe that seemed reasonable in 1709. Today, Technology is obsolete often before it becomes mainstream, so it has a short lifespan & then the world moves on. It's time, I think, for the copyright mafia to get real & stop trying to tell us that we're taking bread from the mouths of Amiga developer's starving children. I say Go For It, Franko.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: nicholas on May 03, 2011, 07:57:25 PM
Quote from: Fats;635157
I don't mind being called copyright maffia; I will report you if you put material on your site you don't have permission to distribute.
greets, Staf.
Would you report someone who was hosting the same files in a country where it is legal to do so?
If yes, who would you report them to and what exactly would you be reporting?
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Iggy on May 03, 2011, 08:12:41 PM
Hosting 3.0 is probably legal. 3.1 presents some problems because of the poor way that transfer of IP ownership was carried out. But a real test of the 3.1 copyright would be hosting the 3.1 source files. These used to be in the hands of a few people, but I'm not sure who would have them now. Mind you, I don't think anyone that wants to design an Amigoid OS would download or examine these files (it would contaminate their own project), but it would nudge AInc. and Hyperion into action.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: pwermonger on May 03, 2011, 08:28:51 PM
Quote from: Fraggle1;635171
If memory serves, the copyright mafia started when the Amiga was still a popular home computer, citing "Piracy is killing the Amiga" as their cause, & while I believe that those still developing for the Amiga deserve our support I can't see how distributing 1.x - 3.1 constitutes piracy today. Who could claim to be losing revenue ? All the same, I know it's not as simple as that because copyright law would still have been technically broken.
The problem here (as I see it) is that the period of time that copyright is granted for has been outstripped by the advance of technology & the "Digital Age", which has rendered obsolete a timeframe that seemed reasonable in 1709. Today, Technology is obsolete often before it becomes mainstream, so it has a short lifespan & then the world moves on. It's time, I think, for the copyright mafia to get real & stop trying to tell us that we're taking bread from the mouths of Amiga developer's starving children. I say Go For It, Franko.
Actually, originally copyright was somewhere around 14 - 18 years range. It was the idea that what you copyrighted was like a child you had given birth to and you had the oversight over a child up until such time as by law they became considered an 'adult' so copyright followed this principle and the same amount of time. The issue became that companies like Disney wanted to make money and hold off people copying their works longer. Since big corporations have big interests and big money, they were able to get the government(s) to steadily increase the duration of Copyright. I may not agree with the long duration someone can hold on to and try to squeeze money out of a work (often the person continuing to do so had nothing to do with the people who did who are in the ground already) but laws are laws. I can tell you I don't agree with the overly long duration of copyright that at some point ceases to protect the work and only stiffles creativity by preventing open use of it in other works (listen to how many songs way back used the same music but each had different lyrics to see what I mean). Not agreeing is not carte blanche to disregard them.
Would I get mad at this person for putting up old Workbench disks? No. Would I be surprised if Amiga.org removed his links as links to a site with pirated software if he did put them up without rights? No.
@GobanToba I only mentioned Cloanto since they are someone I know has rights to distribute Amiga OS and don't certainly know everyone who ever has or will in perpetuity and in any time or all time has or had or will have those rights.
So yes, I should have said 'and end-around companies like Cloanto who have obtained those rights legally and likely paid for them'. Hyperion would not be in the same class doing an end-around Cloanto who obtained the rights if they also obtained the rights legally. Thank you for allowing me the time to correct that. Yay for the minutia gestapo!
Lastly if Petro gave rights to distribute 3.0, then assuming he had and still has that right fine. That doesn't give rights somehow automatically to 1.x-2.1 and 3.1 if only for 3.0 (cant check that site from here to see exactly what it says).
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: jorkany on May 03, 2011, 08:31:57 PM
Quote from: Franko;635128
Hyperion have never responded to any of my requests so you're in for a bit of a let down there... ;)
Same here, I've never received any sort of response out of Hyperion or anyone at Hyperion. And no, I'm not always sending email as "jorkany@lolhyperionsucks.com", I've contacted them using my primary, real email account as well as several throwaways.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Franko on May 03, 2011, 08:52:43 PM
@ jorkany
I only ever use my real email address to contact companies and provide them with enough personal details about myself in order to make it clear that it is not a joke or spam they are receiving, but after two months and not one response then I'm assuming that they either don't have the rights or just don't care about anyone distributing them... :)
So it looks like in just few days time the Workbench Disks Sets will be up on the homepage of my site for free download... :)
As even the copyright mafia who like to complain and whine and tell me that they are going to report me to someone (not got a clue who that someone might be) yet they can't even tell me who could sell or issue me with the appropriate distribution licence or rights... bit strange that methinks and just further proves to me that these folk are nothing but idiots who would rather keep the Amiga as a laughing stock in the computer world rather than helping the community out in any small way they can... :)
At the end of the day for those of us who still live in the real world where common sense still prevails then at least for anyone needing them they will know where to find them easily. Until I receive word from someone who requires me to remove them and who can provide me with proof that they are indeed the legitimate owners then there they shall remain for the Amiga community to access freely... :)
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Lando on May 03, 2011, 09:01:15 PM
You should put 3.9 up. Nobody is going to have the cheek to complain considering it was released containing unlicensed software itself.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Fraggle1 on May 03, 2011, 09:08:04 PM
An interesting post, pwermonger. Thanks for the info.
So it appears that copyright law started as a highly reasonable construct, but was corrupted by big business who saw it as a licence to print money. It rather raises the question of what happens when the businesses involved lose interest in the money they've printed ? Seems to me that rather than give it away to the needy, they'll hoard it until it's no longer legal tender. Stupid, or what ? lol. ;-)
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Boudicca on May 03, 2011, 09:16:08 PM
Oh FFS.....
Do we really have to bang our Amiga heads against the wall of stupidity every time we raise this totally anal subject.
Something isn't illegal until the "Judgment" says it is. Someone may express a legal opinion, fair comment but pass judgment on or threats to report anyone for any given activity as being "Illegal" is utter b*llocks!. The Police won't even turn up to give it case number. No arrests, No summons, No legal threats (Unless the case can generate cash!)
There is no spoon !
But........and this where "Reasonable" attempts is entirely subjective. I would consider someone trying to contact me as reasonable in reverse would be, "In writing" and if it was a legal matter (in this case I believe it would be), a solicitors letter/writ or legal statement of intent, marked/dated and stamped by a solicitor.
If I was wanting to "Reserve my Rights" I wouldn't just answer an email or answer the phone on such things.
My tuppence worth. !
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Franko on May 03, 2011, 09:35:56 PM
Quote from: Boudicca;635190
But........and this where "Reasonable" attempts is entirely subjective. I would consider someone trying to contact me as reasonable in reverse would be, "In writing" and if it was a legal matter (in this case I believe it would be), a solicitors letter/writ or legal statement of intent, marked/dated and stamped by a solicitor.
If I was wanting to "Reserve my Rights" I wouldn't just answer an email or answer the phone on such things.
My tuppence worth. !
One of the reasons why I finally had to get onto the net in the first place last year, is simply because in this day and age it has become impossible in some cases to get in contact with a company unless it is done over the net... :furious:
I like you, much prefer to do things the old fashioned way in writing but how do you get the details and address of the person or company you want to write to, when most do not publish a physical address or phone number these days... :(
You first have to try and contact them via the net just to get hold of these details and in a lot of cases that, like here for me has proven fruitless. It's one of the most annoying things these days and it's not just the business world it's also started to creep into government departments, no net... no access... :(
So it's not (even though I'd prefer it that way) as simple as just saying write to them... ;)
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: LordSpunky on May 03, 2011, 09:59:51 PM
For what it is worth: To the haters - this process has taken time.....
1) Franko has not just contacted the company's in the last couple of days, and had no reply but has been on going over a couple of months (as I understand it).
2) KS & WK 1.x - 3.1 are old, make no money for whoever owns it, and is required by most of us to run our retro systems. As previously stated other company's (Atari, Apple etc) have made them PD or simply don't care!
3) Amiga Forever is great! I've bought it, I have it, I can 'legally' state I own AmigaOS.
4) From 1980's - 1990's, I also bought AOS 1.3 / 2.x / 3.0 / 3.1 and still have the floppy discs, and many more that came with my systems - most are corrupt now. I LEGALLY bought the software, the MEDIA, the CONTENT, which is now unreadable. What company do I go back to, to get another copy???
5) Another reason for all of this is to challenge the Amiga OS IP holder! If they care (and part of us wishes they do) then the REAL owner of the AOS IP will have to standup and tell Franko off......and therefore we will know who they are........
6) Then we can try and once and for all get AOS into the public domain.....
7) If it was done correctly it could help our cause, for example, if Amiga Inc allowed OS 1.x - 3.1 to download on their website they could see how many people download it, therefore they could ascertain how much interest there was!
Now am I right, or am I right (for once!)
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: motrucker on May 03, 2011, 10:23:47 PM
@LordSpunky I seriously doubt it...
@Franko I hope this all works out for you (us). I would offer more support, but I rarely stop in here these days.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Kesa on May 03, 2011, 10:24:56 PM
Quote from: Franko;635116
I know that and anyone with eyes knows that, I have nothing against Amiga Forever I just want folk to be able to easily download for FREE the Amiga Workbench Disk Sets when they need them... :)
Franko, i think you might have more success if didn't try to get them for free but a discount. Maybe 99P? The difference being that you are more likely to get what you want if there was consideration. The amount of consideration is irrelevant just as long as there is something being exchanged by both parties. In a legal sense consideration is essential for a contact to exist. Just remember in this world you get nothing for free :)
Just my 2 cents ;)
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: TheDaddy on May 03, 2011, 10:30:15 PM
Franko...for PRESIDENT! :)
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: commodorejohn on May 03, 2011, 10:42:40 PM
Quote from: Kesa;635204
Franko, i think you might have more success if didn't try to get them for free but a discount.
Kind of irrelevant when you can't even make contact with them...
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: pwermonger on May 03, 2011, 11:02:17 PM
Actually, to secure your rights you don't have to answer any requests from anyone. Nor do you have to actively sell your product. Once it was ever published, performed and/or actively sold (and preferably if it was registered with the Copyright office) it is copyrighted. The only thing you have to do to maintain that right until it expires is to protect it when the issue of infringement comes up.
No this is not opinion, this is straight from the Copyright offices website.
Seems the original posters main issue is whether or not Amiga.org will remove links to his site when he puts up the disks for download. If he feels he has the right to post them because he wasn't contacted to secure rights, then they have the right to remove the links if they feel they don't want to link to a site they feel has unlicensed software.
Will any of it effect my day? nope. Either way I'll drink a toast. Good luck to you all.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: LordSpunky on May 03, 2011, 11:20:46 PM
Quote from: motrucker;635203
@LordSpunky I seriously doubt it...
What is it you doubt?
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: trekiej on May 03, 2011, 11:33:13 PM
Franko Franko Franko (repeat)
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Rob on May 03, 2011, 11:50:37 PM
Quote from: pwermonger;635155
In short, when seeking rights to distribute, the lack of a response does not equate to an affirmative response.
Take note Franko. Barry Altman used the same excuses when he plagiarised fan art for his website.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Franko on May 04, 2011, 12:04:38 AM
Well as time goes on I'm more than convinced that all Workbench Disk sets from 1.3 to 3.1 will be availble for free download from my site by this weekend... :)
As so far there has been no response from either the admins or mods in answer to my first post about removing the link to my site in my signature again, as yet... :)
It was removed by RedRumloa before and I was issued with an infraction after Gazgod complained about it when I had my downloads section open to everyone and he didn't like the fact that I had in there for download the Workbench Disk Sets... :(
So therefore this time I wanted to state clearly my purpose and ask the site admins & mods not to remove the link again and issue me with infractions (or ban me) on the grounds that some folk may complain and accuse me of piracy (which I would like to add if they do so they had better be willing to back up that claim in a legal action) as I have said on numerous occasion these piracy claims are based on "opinions" and not facts... :)
I fail to understand what the motivation is behind these folk, whom apart from making these false accusations based on their flawed interpretation of copyright laws mainly seem to be wanting to do nothing more than deprive the rest of us easy access to this old software. My experience so far in this has proven that if any copyright holders do still exist they obviously don't care about the distribution of this software, so why do the copyright mafia make such a big song and dance about it... :confused:
It remind me of little children in a school playground where you always had one who said "oooh... you swore and said a bad word, I'm telling on you", fine for little kids but these folk are supposed to be mature adults but just can't resist being a clipe (that's a Scottish word for someone who tells on someone") and for what purpose, to keep locked away forever this software from us just out of sheer spite, malice or some high lofty morals they want to impose on everyone else... :(
Sad that such folk hang around these sites and spoil things in the Amiga community but as I say they don't own the stuff they can't prove who does (if anyone) and at the end of the day what they have to say simply doesn't matter as they don't own the stuff. So it's obvious to me that they are just trying to cause bother for me or get me banned from this site... :)
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Franko on May 04, 2011, 12:08:14 AM
Quote from: Rob;635214
Take note Franko. Barry Altman used the same excuses when he plagiarised fan art for his website.
Yes.. and as much as I dislike the man I have to admit that at the end if the day it led him to finally getting permission to use them and they are still on his site today with the authors signature reinstated... :)
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Lando on May 04, 2011, 12:54:39 AM
Quote from: Franko;635187
At the end of the day for those of us who still live in the real world where common sense still prevails then at least for anyone needing them they will know where to find them easily.
Anyone capable of typing 'workbench31.zip' into Google has been able to download Workbench whenever they needed to for as long as I can remember anyway, I don't see the need for this debate.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Franko on May 04, 2011, 01:01:39 AM
Quote from: Lando;635223
Anyone capable of typing 'workbench31.zip' into Google has been able to download Workbench whenever they needed to for as long as I can remember anyway, I don't see the need for this debate.
If it were that simple for everyone then why are there posts on this site and others by folk asking where they can download Workbench disks... ;)
Also why would they look for them in ZIP format when LHA & to a lesser extent LZX are the preferred choice for archiving Amiga stuff... :)
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: BooBoo1200 on May 04, 2011, 01:19:16 AM
Because they dont know how to use google?
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Darrin on May 04, 2011, 02:25:47 AM
Quote from: commodorejohn;635137
Once Cloanto offers a copy of WB3.1 for sale unbundled, I will happily purchase it.
I'd love to see them bundle a large LHA archive of their OS3.x install that could be extracted to a real Amiga and run (we can add our own RTG if necessary).
Unfortunately you can't just copy their WinUAE OS3.x environment over (well I couldn't last time I tried).
And for the record, I've bought Amiga Forever packages several times. :)
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Darrin on May 04, 2011, 02:34:18 AM
Quote from: Rob;635214
Take note Franko. Barry Altman used the same excuses when he plagiarised fan art for his website.
Yeah, but Franko isn't claiming to have created a new OS called "xWorkbench3.1C=" and taking pre-orders. ;) :D
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Darrin on May 04, 2011, 02:36:50 AM
Quote from: Lando;635223
Anyone capable of typing 'workbench31.zip' into Google has been able to download Workbench whenever they needed to for as long as I can remember anyway, I don't see the need for this debate.
Yeah, but I for one would rather download ADFs from a trusted source like Franko's website instead of some unknown origin ADF that might have a virus installed "for shits and giggles".
I knew my Minimig was a "real" Amiga when it caught a bootblock virus off an ADF of P.O.W. :D
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Franko on May 04, 2011, 02:48:53 AM
Quote from: Darrin;635238
Yeah, but I for one would rather download ADFs from a trusted source like Franko's website instead of some unknown origin ADF that might have a virus installed "for shits and giggles".
I knew my Minimig was a "real" Amiga when it caught a bootblock virus off an ADF of P.O.W. :D
Now there's an idea a nice wee virus that detects greetin faced copyright mafia armchair lawyer wannabes... :D
That would be nice knowing that they downloaded it despite their lofty morals and found themselves infected with a nice new virus made especially just for them... :D
I like the sound of that... :)
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Darrin on May 04, 2011, 03:19:42 AM
Quote from: Franko;635242
Now there's an idea a nice wee virus that detects greetin faced copyright mafia armchair lawyer wannabes... :D
That would be nice knowing that they downloaded it despite their lofty morals and found themselves infected with a nice new virus made especially just for them... :D
I like the sound of that... :)
You could call it the "Dammy Exterminator Virus" and it could pop up a message "Something awful has happened to CommodoreUSA" :D
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: jj on May 04, 2011, 08:40:55 AM
Quote from: GobanToba;635159
No one is doing an end around Cloanto. Cloanto is not the only ones with a right to distribute Amiga OS. Is Hyperion doing an end around Cloanto too then? They are distributing AmigaOS. An updated version at that! Are they trying to screw Cloanto?
Petro gave permission for Workbench 3.0 long ago to be distributed free. So he can at least put that up legally.
No he gave permission for AF to put it on their CDs not the same thing at all
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: antonvaltaz on May 04, 2011, 10:26:16 AM
@Franko,
I have every sympathy for what you're doing, it is absolutely ludicrous that they are not distributed for free. As others have said, though, it does seem a little pointless your making a big deal about it, as they are easy to find via Google.
What I suspect will happen though is that you will be contacted by Cloanto, especially as their representatives are regularly on these boards. They are not the copyright owners, but as licensees they seem to be under the impression (whether rightly or wrongly I don't know) that it is their legal obligation to take action when they are made aware of sites distributing Kickstart or Workbench files.
From http://www.amigaforever.com/kb/13-122:
Quote
While Amiga Forever as a whole, being the result of several years of work by Cloanto and its licensors, is a commercial package, we do not oppose, and actually repeatedly encouraged, both the idea of making the original Amiga operating system "open source", and that of creating a similar operating system from scratch (e.g. the AROS project).
At the same time, because we are licensees of multiple components from different parties, we are part of a chain of responsibilities, both contractual and determined by local jurisdictions, when it comes to information about unlicensed ROM and operating system files, or copies of Amiga Forever. When we receive reports about web sites which are claimed to provide such files, we are obliged by law and by contract to take some action. This could be a friendly informative email to the webmaster, which usually concludes the matter in an amicable and constructive way for all parties, or, more regrettably, it could escalate all the way to the ISP and to local computer crime authorities.
I'll be curious to see what happens anyway!
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: gertsy on May 04, 2011, 10:41:38 AM
Interesting read. My translation: If you copy anything that we don't think you should then it's illegal. If you copy stuff we think is okay then it's okay. Huh? I don't want to sound sarcastic, but I do: It would seem their responsibilities are bound by any interpretation of law that devalues the Amiga Forever product. You can do illegal stuff if you buy our product first? Is my interpretation skew-whiff?
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Bamiga2002 on May 04, 2011, 11:03:11 AM
"When justice isn't served it's time to take matters in your own hands"
that sums it up pretty well :)
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: bloodline on May 04, 2011, 11:54:39 AM
Quote from: antonvaltaz;635271
@Franko,
I have every sympathy for what you're doing, it is absolutely ludicrous that they are not distributed for free. As others have said, though, it does seem a little pointless your making a big deal about it, as they are easy to find via Google.
What I suspect will happen though is that you will be contacted by Cloanto, especially as their representatives are regularly on these boards. They are not the copyright owners, but as licensees they seem to be under the impression (whether rightly or wrongly I don't know) that it is their legal obligation to take action when they are made aware of sites distributing Kickstart or Workbench files.
From http://www.amigaforever.com/kb/13-122:
I'll be curious to see what happens anyway!
And Cloanto have every right and legal responsibly to protect the AmigaOS IP... They seem to be very fair with their approach.
@Franko to be Frank with you (excuse the pun), the best idea is to just support the AROS68k project. It already has compatibility with AmigaOS 1.3 through to 3.1, and is getting better everyday... Why not funnel those vast tax fiddled funds you boast about, into some more bounties to help the developers optimise and improve it? :)
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Jope on May 04, 2011, 12:24:32 PM
Amigaforeveryone.info was alive for a whole year without a single take down email or phone call received. You could download the entire TOSEC sets of kickstarts and workbenches off that site.
The owner let the domain lapse, as he felt he had made his point.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: jj on May 04, 2011, 12:35:51 PM
Quote from: bloodline;635276
And Cloanto have every right and legal responsibly to protect the AmigaOS IP... They seem to be very fair with their approach.
@Franko to be Frank with you (excuse the pun), the best idea is to just support the AROS68k project. It already has compatibility with AmigaOS 1.3 through to 3.1, and is getting better everyday... Why not funnel those vast tax fiddled funds you boast about, into some more bounties to help the developers optimise and improve it? :)
Because that would not annoy anyone and Franko is all about confrontation and strife its what he strives to do as much as possible
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Amiga_Nut on May 04, 2011, 12:42:14 PM
Quote from: AmigaHeretic;635136
@Franko
Someone pointed out in another thread that Petro gave Amiga Workbench 3.0 free to the community along time ago.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote from Amiga Format CD #51: AFCD51/+System+/Tools/Workbench/Workbench 3.x/AF_Readme
Here are the DMS archives for the complete Workbench 3.0, in case you haven't got an install disk, or you corrupt your originals. We can't put later versions on because we'd need a licence to do so, but Petro Tyschtschenko has given us permission to include this version of AmigaOS on all AFCDs from now on.
To extract the files, simply have a stack of six disks at the ready for insertion into df0: (or whichever drive you've set up in AFCDPrefs) and then double click on the DMS archive icons. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Files on Amiga Format CD #51: AFCD51/+System+/Tools/Workbench/Workbench 3.x/
Petro gave Future Publishing a licence to include them on their Amiga Format cover CDs, the AF CDs are copyrighted and the permission does not extend to anyone other than Future Publishing. This does not make WB 3.0 freeware/abandonware.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: jj on May 04, 2011, 12:43:15 PM
I said that
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Amiga_Nut on May 04, 2011, 12:57:59 PM
Quote from: bloodline;635276
And Cloanto have every right and legal responsibly to protect the AmigaOS IP... They seem to be very fair with their approach.
@Franko to be Frank with you (excuse the pun), the best idea is to just support the AROS68k project. It already has compatibility with AmigaOS 1.3 through to 3.1, and is getting better everyday... Why not funnel those vast tax fiddled funds you boast about, into some more bounties to help the developers optimise and improve it? :)
It's not their IP at all, some low life crook let them have the Kickstart ROMs and WB disk images to put on their overpriced compilations with the FREE WinUAE emulator.
Having 27 year old technology not made freely distributed and Cloanto pimping their pathetic overpriced is not good for the retro community.
And Tony better fix the damage he has done to the Amiga community by letting those Cloanto use his WinUAE and get a Kickstart replacement rom that will run ALL OCS/ECS/AGA games ASAP so we can finally shove those Amiga Rip-off CD/DVDs and just use WinUAE and the ADFs without interference from Cloanto once and for all.
The purpose is to keep the memory of Amiga alive FOR FREE and it is NOT to line the pockets of idiot talentless coders at Cloanto. Even their paint package at the time was pure and a rip-off of Dpaint. Pure SCUM!
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: bloodline on May 04, 2011, 01:07:06 PM
@AmigaNut
Unfortunatelly you don't get to decide what is legal and what isn't. Cloanto have paid real money to get a Free Verison of AmigaOS available to ALL Amiga users, what you you ever done (other than be a prat of course, you can have that for free)?
Instead of whining about how you want others to make pirate copies of AOS available (to keep the memory Alive?!), why not help out the community by supporting the Free Opensource clone of AROS68K?
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: antonvaltaz on May 04, 2011, 01:13:39 PM
Quote from: Jope;635277
Amigaforeveryone.info was alive for a whole year without a single take down email or phone call received. You could download the entire TOSEC sets of kickstarts and workbenches off that site.
Was it actually heavily advertised though? I only stumbled across it from some obscure link somewhere (I forget where) - wasn't it hidden from Google search spiders etc?
Quote from: Amiga_Nut;635286
It's not their f**king IP at all, some low life crook let them have the Kickstart ROMs and WB disk images to put on their overpriced SHIT compilations with the FREE WinUAE emulator.
That'll be Amiga International back in 1997 then... you do know that Amiga Forever is a lot more than just WinUAE and some ROMs? If you don't want it, don't buy it, but why the hatred?
Quote
And Tony better fix the f**king damage he has done to the Amiga community by letting those assholes Cloanto use his WinUAE and get a Kickstart replacement rom that will run ALL OCS/ECS/AGA games ASAP so we can finally shove those Amiga Rip-off CD/DVDs up their fat hairy arses and just use WinUAE and the ADFs without interference from Cloanto once and for all.
It's not Toni's WinUAE, he's the current maintainer but it was around for a long time before he started. It's released under GPL so Cloanto are perfectly within their rights to include it on their compilations, as long as they make the source code available (which they do).
Given the immense work that Toni has done, for free, for the Amiga emulation community, it's a bit rich to suggest he owes anyone anything. Especially as his current work on the open source Kickstart ROM will mean that there is a freely distributable alternative (which Cloanto have also repeatedly said they want, and indeed have funded it's development).
What is your problem with Cloanto? They're not the ones blocking the distribution of the original Kickstart ROMs. Save your hatred for Amiga Inc.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: koaftder on May 04, 2011, 01:57:26 PM
This thread is a farce and the only reason it exists is because Franko is bored and wants attention.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: jj on May 04, 2011, 02:02:52 PM
Quote from: koaftder;635290
This thread is a farce and the only reason it exists is because Franko is bored and wants attention.
Very well said sir
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Cool_amigaN on May 04, 2011, 02:11:00 PM
Quote from: bloodline;635287
@AmigaNut
Unfortunatelly you don't get to decide what is legal and what isn't. Cloanto have paid real money to get a Free Verison of AmigaOS available to ALL Amiga users, what you you ever done (other than be a prat of course, you can have that for free)?
Instead of whining about how you want others to make pirate copies of AOS available (to keep the memory Alive?!), why not help out the community by supporting the Free Opensource clone of AROS68K?
Cloanto offers an emulated suite (suite = UAE bundled with lots of goodies such as AE, programms etc) of AmigaOS that does not run on real amigas.
Right now, it is impossible to obtain any version of 68k AmigaOS.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: bloodline on May 04, 2011, 02:18:03 PM
Quote from: Cool_amigaN;635294
Cloanto offers an emulated suite (suite = UAE bundled with lots of goodies such as AE, programms etc) of AmigaOS that does not run on real amigas.
Right now, it is impossible to obtain any version of 68k AmigaOS.
And Cloanto have paid very large sums of money into the AROS 68k and Kickstart replacement bounties. Without their help the AROS68K project wouldn't exist at the level it is now!
It is a Free clone of AmigaOS that CAN boot real Amigas and run Amiga software! That is the future! Not pirating copyrighted software!
Title: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: tone007 on May 04, 2011, 02:22:00 PM
Quote from: koaftder;635290
This thread is a farce and the only reason it exists is because Franko is bored and wants attention.
Kind of like that thread where you got drunk and threw all of your Amigas in the dumpster!
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Darrin on May 04, 2011, 02:22:37 PM
Quote from: bloodline;635297
And Cloanto have paid very large sums of money into the AROS 68k and Kickstart replacement bounties. Without their help the AROS68K project wouldn't exist at the level it is now!
It is a Free clone of AmigaOS that CAN boot real Amigas and run Amiga software! That is the future! Not pirating copyrighted software!
So it works PERFECTLY then?
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Bamiga2002 on May 04, 2011, 02:26:09 PM
But wouldn't it be easier to develop AROS 68k with WB3.1 sources at hand freely available?
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: bloodline on May 04, 2011, 02:33:44 PM
Quote from: Darrin;635300
So it works PERFECTLY then?
It only started working at all, late last year! As I'm on the Dev-list I can see the improvements daily, with our support it will surpass the aged Commodore produced OSs
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: koaftder on May 04, 2011, 02:35:19 PM
Quote from: tone007;635299
Kind of like that thread where you got drunk and threw all of your Amigas in the dumpster!
I actually did that.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Cool_amigaN on May 04, 2011, 02:53:21 PM
Quote from: bloodline;635297
And Cloanto have paid very large sums of money into the AROS 68k and Kickstart replacement bounties. Without their help the AROS68K project wouldn't exist at the level it is now!
It is a Free clone of AmigaOS that CAN boot real Amigas and run Amiga software! That is the future! Not pirating copyrighted software!
I know that AOS 68k ADFs serves as base for their software offer and they have paid for it. I respect their dedication to AROS project. However, again, this isn't a debate about Cloanto, Aros or His majesty Franko himself.
As I have a pointed out already offering (selling) a suite for classic AOS emulation that has absolutely zero purpose on a 68k hardware and distribute stock 68k AOS ADFs, are two completely different subjects.
Secondly, right now, it is impossible to boot and setup 1.3-3.1 since no one is selling them. I can't understand the elitist view of some fellow amigans. Why would anyone has to go in such a hussle, tracking down like inspector gagdet of eBay, a proper (original) copy of AOS (that will be more likely overpriced) if his are damaged because of aging?
Finally, imo, each and every 68k software (not only the OS) that is important (e.g productivity software) but not sold for many years and the company/author has stopped supporting with new updates/went out of business/moved on from the market several years ago, must become PD immediately. If anyone wants the same, provide me with a digital copy of the software and I will hosting it.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Franko on May 04, 2011, 03:26:11 PM
To be honest most of the posts since my last one in this thread aren't worth even commenting on (especially the a-holes ones like koaftder & JJ's)... :)
I've explained in this thread enough times my reasons for doing what I am going to do, so if you haven't bothered to read them then tough luck, I aint explaining it again... :)
All I will say about some of the stuff posted about Cloanto is, if Cloanta would be kind enough to inform me of whom I can contact to try and purchase a distribution licence then that would be great and I'd be more than happy to do so... :)
However as I don't believe Cloanto has the ability to actually sell or issue me with a licence, then the claims by some that they have the right to ask me to remove things from my site or take legal action against me don't hold any water and if as someone said, they or their reps view this site regularly then why haven't they said something here... ;)
Cloanto are more then welcome to get in touch with me anytime now, or when the items are up on my site to either ask me to remove them or if they so wish, to attempt to pursue legal action but they had better be able to prove to me that it is their property they are asking me to remove. If not then any polite request or legal challenges will be dealt with appropriately... :)
@ Bloodline
You know the Tax fiddle thing was a joke, but to answer your query about supporting AROS then the answer is no, as it's simply something I don't have a use for or need, so sorry but I don't give my money away to things that hold no interest for me... :)
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Franko on May 04, 2011, 03:26:57 PM
To be honest most of the posts since my last one in this thread aren't worth even commenting on (especially the a-holes ones like koaftder & JJ's)... :)
I've explained in this thread enough times my reasons for doing what I am going to do, so if you haven't bothered to read them then tough luck, I aint explaining it again... :)
All I will say about some of the stuff posted about Cloanto is, if Cloanta would be kind enough to inform me of whom I can contact to try and purchase a distribution licence then that would be great and I'd be more than happy to do so... :)
However as I don't believe Cloanto has the ability to actually sell or issue me with a licence, then the claims by some that they have the right to ask me to remove things from my site or take legal action against me don't hold any water and if as someone said, they or their reps view this site regularly then why haven't they said something here... ;)
Cloanto are more then welcome to get in touch with me anytime now, or when the items are up on my site to either ask me to remove them or if they so wish, to attempt to pursue legal action but they had better be able to prove to me that it is their property they are asking me to remove. If not then any polite request or legal challenges will be dealt with appropriately... :)
@ Bloodline
You know the Tax fiddle thing was a joke, but to answer your query about supporting AROS then the answer is no, as it's simply something I don't have a use for or need, so sorry but I don't give my money away to things that hold no interest for me... :)
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: commodorejohn on May 04, 2011, 03:28:18 PM
Quote from: bloodline;635276
@Franko to be Frank with you (excuse the pun), the best idea is to just support the AROS68k project. It already has compatibility with AmigaOS 1.3 through to 3.1, and is getting better everyday...
Saying "just support AROS instead" is completely missing the point. What we have here is a group of crooks who vultured the rights to software they didn't even make, software that is crucial to the operation of a 68k Amiga. They've locked up that software and licensed it to one company that doesn't even make it available outside of a compilation product that many of us don't want.
AROS 68k is a fine and noble effort, but even when it gets to the point that it's self-hosting, that still won't change the fact that the real Amiga system software (not some application program, the software needed to run the computer) is locked up by a passel of thieves and scoundrels.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: bloodline on May 04, 2011, 03:45:00 PM
Quote from: Franko;635321
@ Bloodline
You know the Tax fiddle thing was a joke, but to answer your query about supporting AROS then the answer is no, as it's simply something I don't have a use for or need, so sorry but I don't give my money away to things that hold no interest for me... :)
Um, AROS provides a Free Workbench/Kickstart replacement... One that is not encumbered with stupid copyright issues... Please explain how that is something you don't "have a use for or need"? This whole thread is dedicated to the fact you DO have a need for just such software!?
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: dammy on May 04, 2011, 03:45:24 PM
Quote from: commodorejohn;635323
Saying "just support AROS instead" is completely missing the point. What we have here is a group of crooks who vultured the rights to software they didn't even make, software that is crucial to the operation of a 68k Amiga. They've locked up that software and licensed it to one company that doesn't even make it available outside of a compilation product that many of us don't want.
No, AI licensed out that to multiple companies. Cloanto, C=USA, and Hyperion.
Quote
AROS 68k is a fine and noble effort, but even when it gets to the point that it's self-hosting, that still won't change the fact that the real Amiga system software (not some application program, the software needed to run the computer) is locked up by a passel of thieves and scoundrels.
Yet AROS68K is a replacement for real Amiga system OS's, right down to the kickstart. But I know, it's easier to pirate then to do the right thing.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: kolla on May 04, 2011, 03:52:11 PM
I'm curious about how Cloanto is allowed to distribute that OS 3.X kickstart of theirs. I very much doubt that their deal from 1994 or thereabouts regarding distribution of AmigaOS allows them to make such changes to the software in question.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: kolla on May 04, 2011, 03:53:30 PM
Quote from: dammy;635325
But I know, it's easier to pirate then to do the right thing.
Those are not mutually exclusive you know, in this case the right thing to do is to pirate :)
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: commodorejohn on May 04, 2011, 03:58:13 PM
Quote from: dammy;635325
No, AI licensed out that to multiple companies. Cloanto, C=USA, and Hyperion.
Oh, my mistake. AI licensed to three companies, and none of the four has made OS3.1 available outside of bundling with another product. There, factually accurate again!
Quote
Yet AROS68K is a replacement for real Amiga system OS's, right down to the kickstart. But I know, it's easier to pirate then to do the right thing.
Not yet it's not - and in any case, my point wasn't that it isn't fully compatible, it's that it's not the real system software, which remains in rights lockdown thanks to AI.
But I know, it's easier to natter about piracy than to face the fact that AI is using broken copyright law to screw us over.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: haywirepc on May 04, 2011, 03:58:21 PM
Post them franko, then post the hatemail you get in this thread.
I'm sure someone from cloanto was told about this thread. If they have an objection to your posting that stuff they should let you know.
How long will the amiga grave robbers keep holding on to this stuff?
Maybe they should all get real jobs and stop trying to live off the corpse of amiga. Silly Billy especially.
Steven
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: koaftder on May 04, 2011, 04:07:53 PM
Quote from: haywirepc;635332
Post them franko, then post the hatemail you get in this thread.
He won't because he just wants to get close enough to a TOS violation to cause a hissy fit on the forum for a few chuckles without actually getting banned.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: koaftder on May 04, 2011, 04:09:37 PM
Quote from: dammy;635325
Yet AROS68K is a replacement for real Amiga system OS's, right down to the kickstart. But I know, it's easier to pirate then to do the right thing.
You can't argue with folks who have a massive sense of entitlement.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Franko on May 04, 2011, 04:10:26 PM
Quote from: bloodline;635324
Um, AROS provides a Free Workbench/Kickstart replacement... One that is not encumbered with stupid copyright issues... Please explain how that is something you don't "have a use for or need"? This whole thread is dedicated to the fact you DO have a need for just such software!?
Okey Dokey... it's simples... :)
How long has AROS been in "development" and how long before anyone ever sees a finished 68K version of it, to me personally it doesn't really matter at this point in time AS I HAVE NO INTEREST IN IT... :)
I only have a need for the use of the original ROMS not some new ones someone is putting together even if they do have improvements, hope you can understand that... :)
Dunno where you got the idea from that this thread is about the ROMS, IT"S NOT, its simply about (and this is for the last time) making the WORKBENCH DISK SETS free and easy to find and download for folk who require them... :)
It's high time everyone got their heads out of their arses and stopped all this pretence that it's fine that you can find them on the net if you look hard enough but just don't tell anyone or mention it in public on forums... :rolleyes:
What the frig is wrong with some of you people have you reverted back to being 6 years old and think that covering your eyes and saying "na na na na na, can't see me" or in this case can't see the sites with workebench on them that everything is hunky dorey and all is right in Amigaland... :lol:
Gwad sake geeza brek... :rolleyes:
If you don't understand what I'm trying to do then please don't comment on it with the same old BS and changing the subject to something else... :(
For those that do understand what my motivation is here then I thank you for the support and like yourselves I want to see an end to all this pathetic and childish behaviour that has plagued the name of Amiga for far too many years now, maybe some have tried before, I don't know but when I set out to do something I follow it through to the end whether the outcome is what I wanted or not... :)
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Darrin on May 04, 2011, 05:00:25 PM
Quote from: bloodline;635307
It only started working at all, late last year! As I'm on the Dev-list I can see the improvements daily, with our support it will surpass the aged Commodore produced OSs
Right, so my point is, until you can provide a 100% (or even 99%) compatible Kickstart replacement and AROS 680x0 package then it doesn't enter this discussion. We may as well be talking about Cold Fusion.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see AROS appear as a modern compatable Workbench replacement, but it has been something like 20 years so far and it still isn't there and I'm not prepared to wait another 20 years for it to mature.
I've always got the feeling that AROS is about pushing the Amiga OS onto other, faster hardware and 680x0 versions are a bit of a sideline.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Darrin on May 04, 2011, 05:06:02 PM
Quote from: bloodline;635324
Um, AROS provides a Free Workbench/Kickstart replacement... One that is not encumbered with stupid copyright issues... Please explain how that is something you don't "have a use for or need"? This whole thread is dedicated to the fact you DO have a need for just such software!?
In my case, it doesn't work so I'm not paying for it.
I will promise the AROS team one thing, when it works correctly and I'm using it then I'll make a donation to the cause.
Like Franko, I pay money for things that interest me. I bought a C-One board, I bought one of the early Minimig v1.1 boards, I've bought a Chameleon and I've bought a FPGA Arcade all because I want to help them get developed and released as commercial items (except for the C-One which morphed into the Chameleon and the Natami, but then it always was a dev board).
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: eb15 on May 04, 2011, 05:10:05 PM
> Oh, my mistake. AI licensed to three companies, and none of the four has made > OS3.1 available outside of bundling with another product. > There, factually accurate again!
Since "Amiga Inc." in its many incarnations, moved from 1.3 through 3.1 on to versions 3.5 and 3.9, it shouldn't come as a shock that they're not spending their money supporting older versions just as most other software companies don't spend their money supporting old versions of software.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: bloodline on May 04, 2011, 05:20:32 PM
Quote from: Darrin;635352
In my case, it doesn't work so I'm not paying for it.
I will promise the AROS team one thing, when it works correctly and I'm using it then I'll make a donation to the cause.
Like Franko, I pay money for things that interest me. I bought a C-One board, I bought one of the early Minimig v1.1 boards, I've bought a Chameleon and I've bought a FPGA Arcade all because I want to help them get developed and released as commercial items (except for the C-One which morphed into the Chameleon and the Natami, but then it always was a dev board).
How do I put this? AROS isn't a company, it's not a "Team", it's not a project, it's a source code repository. This source code is free for anyone to use and when compiled generates software that clones AmigaOS. This source code is added to and improved by members of the Amiga community.
You can't donate to the AROS team, you can simply make requests for features/improvements and add an incentive to inspire a coder to take up the request. Whatever is the result of that, become part of the AROS code and is free for anyone to use. It is a community effort, by the comment for the community.
I realise you might not understand the opensource movement so this can seem alien, but the end result is worth the effort. I have donated both money and code to the project and I would expect others to do the same if they want the Amiga to still exist in 20 years.
You say it doesn't work, I know then that you haven't even tried AROS68k...
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Darrin on May 04, 2011, 05:26:00 PM
Quote from: bloodline;635355
How do I put this? AROS isn't a company, it's not a "Team", it's not a project, it's a source code repository. This source code is free for anyone to use and when compiled generates software that clones AmigaOS. This source code is added to and improved by members of the Amiga community.
You can't donate to the AROS team, you can simply make requests for features/improvements and add an incentive to inspire a coder to take up the request. Whatever is the result of that, become part of the AROS code and is free for anyone to use. It is a community effort, by the comment for the community.
I realise you might not understand the opensource movement so this can seem alien, but the end result is worth the effort. I have donated both money and code to the project and I would expect others to do the same if they want the Amiga to still exist in 20 years.
You say it doesn't work, I know then that you haven't even tried AROS68k...
Does it work 100%? The answer is "no" so I don't need to try it yet.
Once it does work and I can use it as I use WB3.x then I can donate to the team by donating to "bounties" to add extra features.
You see, if it actually did "work" then we would all be using it right now and we wouldn't have this thread. Correct?
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Fraggle1 on May 04, 2011, 05:27:32 PM
Once again I feel I must speak up in Franko's defence. What he's trying to do here is to bring some common sense to a community full of hot air & BS. A community that would rather argue forever than do something practical to claim what should be theirs by right if natural justice had anything to do with it.
And don't talk to me about "piracy" killing the Amiga. Back in the day, retailers supported the Amiga simply because of it's high prices, robbing both end users AND developers. (I know that a certain 'must have' application retailed for 7 or 8 times it's wholesale price) Result ? Users copied stuff rather than pay ridiculous prices & developers found pastures new, where they got a better return for their efforts. You might also blame Amiga freeware, who's quality often made commercial products redundant. When C= went belly up, ordinary users (as opposed to Amiga fans) dumped their Amigas & bought PCs, & the fast shrinking Amiga market (not piracy) was a major factor in developers abandoning the Amiga - They had mortgages to pay, dammit !
Are we now expected to listen to self-righteous babbling by a few people who seem to think that the Amiga will somehow be 'damaged' by Franko making WB disks easily available ?
The damage was done many years ago by those who made a fast buck & then ceased to care, & IMHO, Franko is trying to help this dwindling community by giving something back.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: bloodline on May 04, 2011, 05:28:17 PM
Quote from: Darrin;635356
Does it work 100%? The answer is "no" so I don't need to try it yet.
Once it does work and I can use it as I use WB3.x then I can donate to the team by donating to "bounties" to add extra features.
You see, if it actually did "work" then we would all be using it right now and we wouldn't have this thread. Correct?
Try it, see for yourself :)
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: mongo on May 04, 2011, 05:32:15 PM
Quote from: Fraggle1;635357
Franko is trying to help this dwindling community by giving something back.
It's not his to give.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Franko on May 04, 2011, 05:35:46 PM
Quote from: bloodline;635355
I realise you might not understand the opensource movement so this can seem alien, but the end result is worth the effort. I have donated both money and code to the project and I would expect others to do the same if they want the Amiga to still exist in 20 years.
You say it doesn't work, I know then that you haven't even tried AROS68k...
I can understand your enthusiasm and support for AROS but your very, very wrong in making the wild claim that only because of AROS will the Amiga still be around in 20 years... ;)
If I'm still around in 20 years and I can assure you I will still be using the Amiga, it wont be because of AROS or even have anything to do with AROS. I will still be using real genuine original Amiga hardware and real genuine real Amiga ROMS whether they be in physical format or as ROM Image Files... :)
Please try and understand Bloodline that there are still some folk for whom the original hardware and roms is all that they require for the Amiga and if AROS is for you then by all means use it and support it but give up on the crusade to try and convert everyone to it... :)
PS: your comment to Darrin of "You say it doesn't work, I know then that you haven't even tried " the last time you posted a video on this site about it , it still wasn't functioning properly, so how can you claim that it does work... :confused:
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Franko on May 04, 2011, 05:39:49 PM
Quote from: mongo;635359
It's not his to give.
Ok mongo, I have great respect for your posts on this site and the help you give people here, so please tell me who I can contact to try and obtain a distribution licence to do so, that will satisfy everyone legally... :)
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Darrin on May 04, 2011, 05:43:41 PM
Quote from: bloodline;635358
Try it, see for yourself :)
I will and I'll get back to you. A4000 should be OK?
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: ChaosLord on May 04, 2011, 05:51:51 PM
Quote from: mongo;635359
It's not his to give.
Franko owns bandwidth which he pays for and gives away for free to the Amiga community.
So he always gives something to the community.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: koaftder on May 04, 2011, 05:56:07 PM
Quote from: Fraggle1;635357
Once again I feel I must speak up in Franko's defence. What he's trying to do here is to bring some common sense to a community full of hot air & BS.
IMHO, Franko is trying to help this dwindling community by giving something back.
No he's not. He's already pulled this shit before and had to make a choice: a) remove the disk images off his site or b) pull the link to his site out of his signature and not talk about it on AO. He choose A. The situation isn't going to change. The only reason he's pulling this crap again is to troll the site. End of story. Why do people fall for this shit?
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Franko on May 04, 2011, 05:58:08 PM
@ Fraggle1
Thank for the support mate, much appreciated I assure you... :)
Being a Commodore (The real Commodore that is) user and fan for 30 year and being an Amiga fan & user for 25 of those, until June of last year when I finally decided to give the net a try, I was blissfully unaware of the fact that there were so many idiots that call themselves Amiga Users and fans until I found these types of forums that is... :(
Now I've no idea what the motivation is for some of these whahoos who post such crap around here with their never ending you can't do this and you can't that because it's IP/Copyright BS on stuff that the world couldn't give a shit about....
I really find it sad and almost embarrassing that these dunderheids call themselves Amiga users or Amiga fans as the constant BS that they like to drivel on about really spoils it for the genuine Amiga users & fans here, who want nothing more than to simply get on and use their Amigas for enjoyment & fun and not be bothered with they armchair copyright/IP wannabe lawyers who's only interest in the Amiga is posting absolute blatant gobshite on these forums...
Things sure have changed since the days when there were still plenty of other Amiga users and friends around locally that when we got together we talked about and used our Amiga for what they were made for fun, enjoyment & productivity , not this pathetic arguing and trying to prove pointless legal shit that the vast majority of us with sense could give a toss about...
Don't get me wrong there a plenty of great folks on this site who know what being an Amiga user is really all about and I'm glad to have interacted with them here, but for some strange reason these Amiga forums seem to attract more than their fair share of these wierdos and losers who's only goal in life seems to be to put the Amiga down at every chance they can get while trying to make themselves look clever by gibbering the biggest load of jobbies I've ever had the misfortune to read...
There an old saying round these parts... "There's Nowt As Queer As Folks"
And when it comes to Amiga forums never was a truer word spoken... ;)
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Franko on May 04, 2011, 05:59:39 PM
Quote from: koaftder;635369
No he's not. He's already pulled this shit before and had to make a choice: a) remove the disk images off his site or b) pull the link to his site out of his signature and not talk about it on AO. He choose A. The situation isn't going to change. The only reason he's pulling this crap again is to troll the site. End of story. Why do people fall for this shit?
Wrong again (as usual) on all counts... ;)
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: mongo on May 04, 2011, 06:02:30 PM
Quote from: Franko;635364
Ok mongo, I have great respect for your posts on this site and the help you give people here, so please tell me who I can contact to try and obtain a distribution licence to do so, that will satisfy everyone legally... :)
bill@amiga.com
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: bloodline on May 04, 2011, 06:04:02 PM
Quote from: Darrin;635367
I will and I'll get back to you. A4000 should be OK?
Yes, here is how to load the ROM file so that it boots the machine:
Copy bin/amiga-m68k/AROS/boot/aros.elf.gz and AROSBootstrap to a floppy, and run AROSBootstrap from a S:Startup-Sequence on the floppy, ie:
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Franko on May 04, 2011, 06:14:28 PM
Quote from: mongo;635372
bill@amiga.com
Well thanks for that but who is Bill and where can I find details on Amiga.com, don't want to go emailing some guy called Bill (could be the janitor for all I know) and I'd like to research Amiga.com first... :)
Just checked and a search for Amiga.com, took me to the AmigaInc site, I've contacted them twice and never received one reply... :(
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: koaftder on May 04, 2011, 06:17:42 PM
Sorry haven't a clue what your trying to say, that email I received turned out to be a fake, so your point is...
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: mongo on May 04, 2011, 06:23:42 PM
Quote from: Franko;635377
Well thanks for that but who is Bill and where can I find details on Amiga.com, don't want to go emailing some guy called Bill (could be the janitor for all I know) and I'd like to research Amiga.com first... :)
That would be Bill McEwen. I'm pretty sure Amiga Inc can't afford a janitor, so you don't have to worry about that.
Quote
Just checked and a search for Amiga.com, took me to the AmigaInc site, I've contacted them twice and never received one reply... :(
Maybe they're not interested in doing business with you. All things considered, I'm not exactly surprised.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: TheBilgeRat on May 04, 2011, 06:29:19 PM
This is why Amiga never made it fully into the digital age - once all the amiga users got online, everyone found out what raging douchebags they all were. Some of you make xboxlive halo players look like intelligent individuals.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Franko on May 04, 2011, 06:31:03 PM
Quote from: mongo;635381
Maybe they're not interested in doing business with you. All things considered, I'm not exactly surprised.
As I've already said I "generally" respect our posts but for whatever reason you have for making ones like that then it's no skin off my nose and I won't be dragged into some petty squabbles with you... :)
They may not be interested in doing business as you say but it wont help them if they turn out to be the copyright owners and they take me to court and I can prove to the Judge that I had indeed done my best to contact them... ;)
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: koaftder on May 04, 2011, 06:31:40 PM
Quote from: Franko;635380
Sorry haven't a clue what your trying to say, that email I received turned out to be a fake, so your point is...
I'm just pointing out your childish behavior. You can claim what ever you like. Go ahead and put up those disk images. You will be forced again to either take them down or remove the link to your site in your signature and refrain from linking to it in the forum. The 18 pages in that thread details exactly what happened. Personally I hope you throw them up, stick to your guns and get banned.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Franko on May 04, 2011, 06:37:17 PM
Quote from: koaftder;635385
I'm just pointing out your childish behavior. You can claim what ever you like. Go ahead and put up those disk images. You will be forced again to either take them down or remove the link to your site in your signature and refrain from linking to it in the forum. The 18 pages in that thread details exactly what happened. Personally I hope you throw them up, stick to your guns and get banned.
The disk images were never taken down in the first place they were simply moved elsewhere and have been available all this time... :)
Childish behaviour, that's rich coming from someone with the mind of a 3 year old... :rolleyes:
I will indeed be putting them up and there will no legit reason for banning me for doing so... so dream on... ;)
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: jj on May 04, 2011, 06:39:04 PM
Quote
Are we now expected to listen to self-righteous babbling by a few people who seem to think that the Amiga will somehow be 'damaged' by Franko making WB disks easily available ?
Its not about people thinking Franko will damage the Amiga ??? Its more about him not having the legal right to do so, no mater if you agree with it or not. Its not about him making the disks freely available, they already are , its about him being a pain as always
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Franko on May 04, 2011, 06:41:37 PM
Quote from: JJ;635388
Its not about people thinking Franko will damage the Amiga ??? Its more about him not having the legal right to do so, no mater if you agree with it or not. Its not about him making the disks freely available, they already are , its about him being a pain as always
Take some Asprins (preferably about 200) and your pain will go away permanently... :)
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: commodorejohn on May 04, 2011, 06:53:51 PM
Quote from: eb15;635353
Since "Amiga Inc." in its many incarnations, moved from 1.3 through 3.1 on to versions 3.5 and 3.9, it shouldn't come as a shock that they're not spending their money supporting older versions just as most other software companies don't spend their money supporting old versions of software.
I don't demand that they spend any money or make any effort to support them - but if they're not going to make older versions of the program (with significant functional differences) available in some form other than bundled with somebody else's unrelated product, I'm not much interested in hearing people whine about piracy. It's like the kid on the playground who's been given a cool toy, but he doesn't actually care about it and the only good he derives from it is getting to go "neener neener, I've got it and you can't have it!" to all the kids who actually want to play with it.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: zipper on May 04, 2011, 07:02:17 PM
Quote from: Franko;635389
Take some Asprins (preferably about 200) and your pain will go away permanently... :)
Even less may be enough, its LD50 (rat) is 200mg/kg meaning 32 500mg tablets may kill you (80 kg) with 50% probability. So 200 might be overkill....
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Franko on May 04, 2011, 07:08:33 PM
Quote from: zipper;635391
Even less may be enough, its LD50 (rat) is 200mg/kg meaning 32 500mg tablets may kill you (80 kg) with 50% probability. So 200 might be overkill....
I know... but I just wanted to make sure it did the job and not have him complaining a week later that all he ended up with was some internal bleeding and a weeks stay in hospital... :)
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: mongo on May 04, 2011, 07:27:35 PM
Quote from: Franko;635384
They may not be interested in doing business as you say but it wont help them if they turn out to be the copyright owners and they take me to court and I can prove to the Judge that I had indeed done my best to contact them... ;)
It makes no difference if you contacted them or not. They have no obligation to do business with you or to even respond to you.
This is what you seem to fail to understand. They own it, what they do with it is completely up to them, and they owe you nothing.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Fraggle1 on May 04, 2011, 07:37:33 PM
@ Franko
You're welcome :-)
"and not be bothered with they armchair copyright/IP wannabe lawyers who's only interest in the Amiga is posting absolute blatant gobshite on these forums..."
The problem is lack of Amiga User Groups, where you met & made friends with other Amiga users, as opposed to here, where people can talk utter bullshit without risk of a 'Gleska Kiss'. ;-)
"Just checked and a search for Amiga.com, took me to the AmigaInc site, I've contacted them twice and never received one reply..."
I wonder if AmigaInc will be more eager to get in touch with you after you put the WB discs on your site ? - A few years ago I heard they tried to sue someone in this community for a large 5 figure sum just for having a couple of dozen "Boing Ball" case badges made & selling them for £1 each ! I assume AI had some lawyers bills to pay. ;-)
I'm confident you'll be equal to them, whatever they say, lol ;-)
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: jj on May 04, 2011, 08:03:43 PM
what dont people understand . If i contacted microsoft and asked if i could put copies of win 95 on my website, and microsoft didnt reply so i put them up anyway an d get sued i wouldnt have a leg to stand on.
JUST BECAUSE YOU CANT GET HOLD OF THE OWNERS OR THEY NOT REPLYING DOES NOT GIVE YOU THE LEGAL RIGHT TO HOST THE SOFTWARE.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Cool_amigaN on May 04, 2011, 08:13:39 PM
Makes me sick, seeing people, urging users to pick a "replacement" OS while passing by easily the fact that there is no available source to buy/install/use the proper OS, thus you are forced to do so.
Makes me even sicker to see that it's the same people that have involved in the past to various flame wars and now baptize AROS=AOS68k.
The community cannot even unite to claim PD of 25 years old OS.
Still, I would like to see how exactly will AROS perform on a stock A500 and make comparisons with 1.3.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: paul1981 on May 04, 2011, 08:21:31 PM
Quote from: Fraggle1;635397
@ Franko
I wonder if AmigaInc will be more eager to get in touch with you after you put the WB discs on your site ? - A few years ago I heard they tried to sue someone in this community for a large 5 figure sum just for having a couple of dozen "Boing Ball" case badges made & selling them for £1 each ! I assume AI had some lawyers bills to pay. ;-)
I believe I have one of those. It's a lovely badge as well. If they are so rare, then maybe I can even double or quadruple my money! :roflmao:
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: commodorejohn on May 04, 2011, 08:56:56 PM
Quote from: JJ;635405
JUST BECAUSE YOU CANT GET HOLD OF THE OWNERS OR THEY NOT REPLYING DOES NOT GIVE YOU THE LEGAL RIGHT TO HOST THE SOFTWARE.
So it doesn't give you the legal right. So what? Who cares? The law isn't the highest good.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Franko on May 04, 2011, 09:00:21 PM
Well no matter what anyone here has to say about trying to put me off doing this, it's too late as I have gone ahead and started, I have given enough chances for anyone that has a legitimate claim to have their say and not one peep have I had in response... :)
It cannot be said that no mods here on this site have not checked out this thread (they have as I have been keeping tabs on it) and so they had their chance to warn or advise me if it would be ok for me to do so as I asked in the first post and in other posts... maybe they just don't want to get involved but you can't say I didn't ask... :)
Anyway I'll be adding more stuff for download and shall just sit back, wait and see, if anyone with a legitimate claim steps forward and asks me to stop or threatens legal action which they shall have to prove first and then shall I decide whether I shall challenge it in a court of law... :)
I sincerely hope someone does come forward as I would like to clear up for myself and the Amiga community once and for all, if indeed anyone still has the legal rights to the Workbench disk sets and so we will all know who is really responsible for hoarding them and generally not making them available to those who really want them and can put them to good use whether it be for free or at a price... :)
At the end of the day there isn't much they can do to me in legal terms that would actually bother me if they choose to go that route, money well they wont get a lot out of me, assets... ditto, jail time... wont be the first time and at my age I really couldn't care less... :)
So only time will tell now... watch this space... :)
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Bamiga2002 on May 04, 2011, 09:12:19 PM
Does everyone have their popcorn and empty floppy disks ready? :pint:
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Iggy on May 04, 2011, 09:25:52 PM
Quote from: Franko;635422
Well no matter what anyone here has to say about trying to put me off doing this, it's too late as I have gone ahead and started, I have given enough chances for anyone that has a legitimate claim to have their say and not one peep have I had in response... :)
"...I have gone ahead and started."
No you haven't.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: desiv on May 04, 2011, 09:27:54 PM
Quote from: Iggy;635427
"...I have gone ahead and started."
No you haven't.
Why am I reminded of the Monty Python argument sketch??
desiv
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Franko on May 04, 2011, 09:31:14 PM
Quote from: Iggy;635427
"...I have gone ahead and started."
No you haven't.
Erm... I have... :confused:
Link Removed upon request of SlvrDrgn
Thought it only fitting to kick off AmigaUK.com with something that is really Amiga only related... :)
CommodoreScotland.com will follow shortly as I need to do a lot of editing and shuffling things about first... :)
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: CSixx on May 04, 2011, 09:33:11 PM
Funny you've only linked to them on another site (mediafire) lol.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Franko on May 04, 2011, 09:34:55 PM
Quote from: CSixx;635431
Funny you've only linked to them on another site (mediafire) lol.
Huh... and how else am I supposed to make them available... (your weird)... :)
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: TheBilgeRat on May 04, 2011, 09:35:50 PM
Quote from: Franko;635432
Huh... and how else am I supposed to make them available... (your weird)... :)
You host them locally :D
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Franko on May 04, 2011, 09:37:58 PM
Quote from: desiv;635428
Why am I reminded of the Monty Python argument sketch??
desiv
You mean this one, suppose we could just watch this and save a lot of posting... :)
[youtube]kQFKtI6gn9Y[/youtube]
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Franko on May 04, 2011, 09:38:44 PM
Quote from: TheBilgeRat;635433
You host them locally :D
All the locals I know don't have computers... :(
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Franko on May 04, 2011, 09:40:07 PM
Oooh... koaftder just reported my post.... I'm scared... :lol:
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: CSixx on May 04, 2011, 09:41:56 PM
The files should reside on the same server that your website resides on (geocities by the looks of them, heh).
Otherwise, you are simply linking to the files in the same manner as a google search, which makes this whole thread pointless.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Iggy on May 04, 2011, 09:45:33 PM
Quote from: Franko;635429
Erm... I have... :confused:
I've started on .
Thought it only fitting to kick off AmigaUK.com with something that is really Amiga only related... :)
CommodoreScotland.com will follow shortly as I need to do a lot of editing and shuffling things about first... :)
The mediafire link does not work (at least it hasn't worked correctly for me).
Personally this is more like the "getting hit over the head" room for me.
Correction - Its only the install disk that won't download correctly.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Franko on May 04, 2011, 09:51:32 PM
Quote from: CSixx;635439
The files should reside on the same server that your website resides on (geocities by the looks of them, heh).
Otherwise, you are simply linking to the files in the same manner as a google search, which makes this whole thread pointless.
Firstly I haven't a scooby doo about what your saying "geocities" whasat !!!
All files on my my sites have to be downloaded from my account on mediafire as that's the only way it works with sitemaker... :)
The only space I have for storage on my sites is used by any gfx that I have to upload for use on my sites. So I don't see what your point is, I have uploaded them and almost 10,000 other files to mediafire (which my site members have been happily using for quite some time now with no complaints) and made them available to easily find and download... :)
So what is the pointless point your trying to make here... :confused:
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Franko on May 04, 2011, 09:54:11 PM
Quote from: Iggy;635440
The mediafire link does not work (at least it hasn't worked correctly for me).
Personally this is more like the "getting hit over the head" room for me.
Correction - Its only the install disk that won't download correctly.
Just checked... all files are downloading fine here... :)
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: TheBilgeRat on May 04, 2011, 09:55:41 PM
Quote from: Franko;635442
Firstly I haven't a scooby doo about what your saying "geocities" whasat !!!
It was the first 'DIY' style webhosting service around back in the nineties and 2000's. Think Etsy, but more useless :lol:. In other words, he was having a go at your web design :D
Quote
All files on my my sites have to be downloaded from my account on mediafire as that's the only way it works with sitemaker... :)
The only space I have for storage on my sites is used by any gfx that I have to upload for use on my sites. So I don't see what your point is, I have uploaded them and almost 10,000 other files to mediafire (which my site members have been happily using for quite some time now with no complaints) and made them available to easily find and download... :)
So what is the pointless point your trying to make here... :confused:
He's trying to say that you aren't actually HOSTING the files, you are simply POINTING at them. It suggests you aren't really the 'offending' party, MediaFire is.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Iggy on May 04, 2011, 10:02:33 PM
Quote from: Franko;635444
Just checked... all files are downloading fine here... :)
No, the install disk does not download. Again, all others, fine. Not install.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Franko on May 04, 2011, 10:03:01 PM
Quote from: TheBilgeRat;635445
It was the first 'DIY' style webhosting service around back in the nineties and 2000's. Think Etsy, but more useless :lol:. In other words, he was having a go at your web design :D
He's trying to say that you aren't actually HOSTING the files, you are simply POINTING at them. It suggests you aren't really the 'offending' party, MediaFire is.
Me websites aren't designed I just cobble them together in a way that keeps me happy... :)
As I've said with the SiteMaker package it's the only way to make stuff available to download by using the various link thingies to link to other accounts I have (in this case Mediafire)... :)
At the end of the day, it's the only way I can do it on my sites and I'm the one who uploaded them for download so the only "offending party" is me but to be honest I'm not offended... :D
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Franko on May 04, 2011, 10:06:36 PM
Quote from: Iggy;635446
No, the install disk does not download. Again, all others, fine. Not install.
Sorry Iggy, just checked once again and all 3 of them are downloading fine here, must be something at your end... :)
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Boudicca on May 04, 2011, 10:12:57 PM
Quote from: mongo;635359
It's not his to give.
Its not yours to comment !
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Boudicca on May 04, 2011, 10:15:14 PM
Quote from: koaftder;635369
No he's not. He's already pulled this shit before and had to make a choice: a) remove the disk images off his site or b) pull the link to his site out of his signature and not talk about it on AO. He choose A. The situation isn't going to change. The only reason he's pulling this crap again is to troll the site. End of story. Why do people fall for this shit?
Why is it important to highlight that ? Why bother !
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Iggy on May 04, 2011, 10:16:06 PM
Quote from: Franko;635448
Sorry Iggy, just checked once again and all 3 of them are downloading fine here, must be something at your end... :)
Don't you mean all six (there six disks listed). And, again , no the install disk won't download. I've got the other five. How could it be "my end"?
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Franko on May 04, 2011, 10:16:50 PM
Wow... 3.1 is flying out the door like hotcakes... :)
Amazing how popular this stuff is when it's available else where but folk claim nobody wants another place to download it from... :)
Must be the copyright mafia getting theirs before they complain and have it shut down for everyone else... ;)
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Franko on May 04, 2011, 10:20:44 PM
Quote from: Iggy;635451
Don't you mean all six (there six disks listed). And, again , no the install disk won't download. I've got the other five. How could it be "my end"?
Sorry Iggy but once again all versions of the install disk are downloading fine here. I've downloaded each of them 3 times myself since you mentioned it and they are downloading without any problems... :)
So I've no idea why you can't download them, perhaps one of the copyright mafia will be able to tell you where you can buy them instead... :)
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Franko on May 04, 2011, 10:23:39 PM
Well... true to his word Fats has just reported it too... :lol:
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Iggy on May 04, 2011, 10:24:06 PM
Apologies Franko, can't say I like MediaFire (as it took me about 2 dozen attempts to get the install disk to download), but it has worked. OK everybody. Whether you believe it or not, Franko has made them available AND they have been downloaded. Report away everybody.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Fats on May 04, 2011, 10:24:27 PM
Quote from: Franko;635429
Erm... I have... :confused:
I've started on ...
Just send a report to amiga.org moderator to remove all links to that site. Staf.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Franko on May 04, 2011, 10:28:42 PM
Quote from: Iggy;635455
Apologies Frank, can't say I like MediaFire (as it took me about 2 dozen attempts to get the install disk to download), but it has worked. OK everybody. Whether you believe it or not, Franko has made them available AND they have been downloaded. Report away everybody.
Yeah I wish I hadn't picked mediafire it's a bit slow and flakey at times but I don't fancy uploading nearly 10,000 files again to another site... :)
Think I'll report meself now just for the hell of it... :D
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Iggy on May 04, 2011, 10:31:43 PM
Quote from: Fats;635456
Just send a report to amiga.org moderator to remove all links to that site. Staf.
They can always be re-posted and I don't have to link to it to mention amigauk.com.
BTW - Why is this issue important to you Staf? Surely you don't believe that Bill McEwen deserves to be well treated? The original AmigaInc in Washington still hasn't paid off its bad debts.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Fraggle1 on May 04, 2011, 10:34:05 PM
I really don't understand what koaftder & Fats hope to achieve. Maybe they think that if they stop people from copying Amiga software then the clock will turn back 20 years or so ? Perhaps all those software houses that abandoned the Amiga in 1994 will change their minds & start supporting it again ? ROFLMAO ;-)
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Franko on May 04, 2011, 10:35:12 PM
PS:Anybody got the original 1.3 disks, I've dug mine out but even after cleaning them they are full of errors and I can't make them into ADFs... :(
(been in a box for over 15 years, methinks their knackered...)
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: LordSpunky on May 04, 2011, 10:38:18 PM
Quote from: koaftder;635369
No he's not. He's already pulled this before and had to make a choice: a) remove the disk images off his site or b) pull the link to his site out of his signature and not talk about it on AO. He choose A. The situation isn't going to change. The only reason he's pulling this crap again is to troll the site. End of story. Why do people fall for this ?
What the does 'troll' mean anyway?
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Iggy on May 04, 2011, 10:38:40 PM
Quote from: Franko;635461
PS:Anybody got the original 1.3 disks, I've dug mine out but even after cleaning them they are full of errors and I can't make them into ADFs... :(
(been in a box for over 15 years, methinks their knackered...)
Yeah, that's not good. Floppies don't like long term storage. An occasional read helps preserve data as all reads rewrite existing data.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: commodorejohn on May 04, 2011, 10:39:54 PM
Quote from: Fraggle1;635460
I really don't understand what koaftder & Fats hope to achieve.
They just want everyone to understand that this is illegal, you know: [youtube]rmQFcVR6vEs[/youtube] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ez2mdz0hVbY)
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Franko on May 04, 2011, 10:40:58 PM
Quote from: Fraggle1;635460
I really don't understand what koaftder & Fats hope to achieve. Maybe they think that if they stop people from copying Amiga software then the clock will turn back 20 years or so ? Perhaps all those software houses that abandoned the Amiga in 1994 will change their minds & start supporting it again ? ROFLMAO ;-)
They're really just sad gits who for whatever reasons seem to think they can impose their delusional and high and mighty morals on the rest of us, to be honest I almost feel sorry for them... Nah... no I don't, I hope they fall head first into the bucket of keech they constantly spew and suffocate on their own jobbies... pair of weirdos... :D
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: bloodline on May 04, 2011, 10:41:54 PM
Quote from: Fraggle1;635460
I really don't understand what koaftder & Fats hope to achieve. Maybe they think that if they stop people from copying Amiga software then the clock will turn back 20 years or so ? Perhaps all those software houses that abandoned the Amiga in 1994 will change their minds & start supporting it again ? ROFLMAO ;-)
It's about being consistent.
Do you think I could have any legitimate right to complain about people pirating my music or my apps if I could happily watch other people's IP being abused?
Personally I think there probably should be a special place in copyright law to cover software for machines that haven't been manufactured for 20 years... But that isn't the law. Someone owns the IP (crooks who should be behind bars), and they have rights.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Boudicca on May 04, 2011, 10:43:17 PM
Quote from: commodorejohn;635465
They just want everyone to understand that this is illegal, you know:
Yours and their opinion. It isn't illegal or legal until their day in court. IMO!
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: koaftder on May 04, 2011, 10:43:20 PM
Quote from: Fraggle1;635460
I really don't understand what koaftder & Fats hope to achieve. Maybe they think that if they stop people from copying Amiga software then the clock will turn back 20 years or so ? Perhaps all those software houses that abandoned the Amiga in 1994 will change their minds & start supporting it again ? ROFLMAO ;-)
I reported it because AO isn't a warez trading post, never was and never should be.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Boudicca on May 04, 2011, 10:46:12 PM
Quote from: bloodline;635467
Someone owns the IP (crooks who should be behind bars), and they have rights.
Not until someone attends "Court" you know that big building with the scales on....
I getting bored with this.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Iggy on May 04, 2011, 10:46:25 PM
Quote from: bloodline;635467
Someone owns the IP (crooks who should be behind bars), and they have rights.
"crooks who should be behind bars"
And they deserve the same treatment as you or I? Hey, you'd love the ACLU in my country. They think consistency is so important that they go to court to secure the rights of local Nazis to demonstrate.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Franko on May 04, 2011, 10:46:27 PM
Quote from: koaftder;635469
I reported it because AO isn't a warez trading post, never was and never should be.
Odd that... there is nothing being traded here so you should be happy... :)
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: koaftder on May 04, 2011, 10:52:55 PM
Quote from: Franko;635472
Odd that... there is nothing being traded here so you should be happy... :)
You must be proud of yourself all over a rule others have abided by for a decade.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Franko on May 04, 2011, 10:53:20 PM
Quote from: bloodline;635467
It's about being consistent.
Do you think I could have any legitimate right to complain about people pirating my music or my apps if I could happily watch other people's IP being abused?
Personally I think there probably should be a special place in copyright law to cover software for machines that haven't been manufactured for 20 years... But that isn't the law. Someone owns the IP (crooks who should be behind bars), and they have rights.
And how are you ever going to change the law to something like you describe if no-one takes a stance against the current laws and at least makes an attempt to highlight how absurd they are and hopefully bring about changes in them... ;)
Were not talking here about you're stuff that you write and try to earn a few bob from, I would defend your stuff against either piracy or copyright theft, were talking like you say about stuff that's over 20 years old and it would seem no even the copyright owners give a toss about... :)
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: mongo on May 04, 2011, 10:53:58 PM
Quote from: Iggy;635464
Yeah, that's not good. Floppies don't like long term storage. An occasional read helps preserve data as all reads rewrite existing data.
No it doesn't.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Boudicca on May 04, 2011, 10:54:33 PM
Quote from: koaftder;635469
I reported it because AO isn't a warez trading post, never was and never should be.
"Warez" is so last century..................
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: bloodline on May 04, 2011, 10:56:05 PM
Quote from: Iggy;635471
"crooks who should be behind bars"
Hey, that's just my opinion... I also think that Amiga Inc., Hyperion and EyeTech destroyed the Amiga and what little brand value it had... But that doesn't mean I'm gonna go and steal their stuff.
Quote
And they deserve the same treatment as you or I? Hey, you'd love the ACLU in my country. They think consistency is so important that they go to court to secure the rights of local Nazis to demonstrate.
Yeah, but where do you stop? Freedom of speech is just that, with any luck people will hear what the nutters have to say and realise that they are extremist weirdos... But people should be allowed to make that choice... Or do you prefer that your decisions are made for you?
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Boudicca on May 04, 2011, 10:56:39 PM
Quote from: mongo;635475
No it doesn't.
Oh yes it does....No it doesn't...............He's behind you. This is such a pantomime. Where's Widow Twanky!
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: LordSpunky on May 04, 2011, 10:57:32 PM
Quote from: Franko;635461
PS:Anybody got the original 1.3 disks, I've dug mine out but even after cleaning them they are full of errors and I can't make them into ADFs... :(
(been in a box for over 15 years, methinks their knackered...)
I have - I'll dig them out - tell me how to make them ADF's and I will, and host them if required
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Franko on May 04, 2011, 10:57:33 PM
Quote from: koaftder;635473
You must be proud of yourself pissing and shitting all over a rule others have abided by for a decade.
Aint "pissing and shitting" over no ones rules...
And yes I am damn well proud of myself for highlighting this heads in the sand BS that folk like you live by... :)
Grow up and find something worthwhile to do with yourself, the Womans Institute has more balls than you have... :D
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Iggy on May 04, 2011, 10:59:45 PM
Quote from: mongo;635475
No it doesn't.
Actually, yes, it does. This has been the case since 8" floppies were common.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: bloodline on May 04, 2011, 11:01:09 PM
Quote from: Franko;635474
And how are you ever going to change the law to something like you describe if no-one takes a stance against the current laws and at least makes an attempt to highlight how absurd they are and hopefully bring about changes in them... ;)
Were not talking here about you're stuff that you write and try to earn a few bob from, I would defend your stuff against either piracy or copyright theft, were talking like you say about stuff that's over 20 years old and it would seem no even the copyright owners give a toss about... :)
I've already said I'm not keen on how software is treated in this regard. If you want to make a stand draw up a legal document (with the help of a legal professional) and send it to the Amiga Inc. official address... Have you tried contacting Cloanto or C=USA for Amiga Inc. Contact information?
If you are going to challenge them, do it properly!
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Boudicca on May 04, 2011, 11:02:31 PM
Quote from: koaftder;635473
You must be proud of yourself pissing and shitting all over a rule others have abided by for a decade.
Get of the high horse. Mr never speed in the Car, Mr never drop litter.....
Really getting bored with self-righteousness crap. Yes Mr Koaftder you manged to me off so much. I hope the moderators ban you arse. Finished.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Iggy on May 04, 2011, 11:04:10 PM
Quote from: Boudicca;635483
Get of the high horse. Mr never speed in the Car, Mr never drop litter.....
Really getting bored with self-righteousness crap. Yes Mr Koaftder you manged to f*ck me off so much. I hope the moderators ban you f*cking arse. Finished.
+1
Self righteous=serious asshole
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: LordSpunky on May 04, 2011, 11:06:25 PM
Quote from: Iggy;635484
+1
Self righteous=serious asshole
That is normally the case....
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: koaftder on May 04, 2011, 11:06:43 PM
Quote from: Boudicca;635483
Get of the high horse. Mr never speed in the Car, Mr never drop litter.....
Really getting bored with self-righteousness crap. Yes Mr Koaftder you manged to f*ck me off so much. I hope the moderators ban you f*cking arse. Finished.
The stuff going on here today, it's starting to remind me of Usenet.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: koaftder on May 04, 2011, 11:09:05 PM
Quote from: Iggy;635484
+1
Self righteous=serious asshole
I'd rather be a self righteous asshole than Franko's gimp.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: TheBilgeRat on May 04, 2011, 11:09:31 PM
Quote from: koaftder;635486
The stuff going on here today, it's starting to remind me of Usenet.
pot to kettle, there, sonny jim. You were the one that came a runnin' to squirt yellow water on everyone in the name of god knows what. Did you get your mad minute? yes? then hows about having a nice cup of shut your man pleaser and sit down.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: koaftder on May 04, 2011, 11:11:05 PM
Quote from: TheBilgeRat;635488
pot to kettle, there, sonny jim. You were the one that came a runnin' to squirt yellow water on everyone in the name of god knows what. Did you get your mad minute? yes? then hows about having a nice cup of shut your man pleaser and sit down.
Let me guess, you're the gay spammer over at moobunny?
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: LordSpunky on May 04, 2011, 11:11:36 PM
Quote from: koaftder;635487
I'd rather be a self righteous asshole than Franko's gimp.
Come on! Leave it in the play ground! No one, is anyone's gimp! FFS!
Don't make me come and smack your heads together! You ain't told old to go over my knee young man!
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Franko on May 04, 2011, 11:13:40 PM
Well I've done me bit for today, so now I'm off to have me dinner, put me feet up and do some serious stuff like count me teaspoon collection while I await MI5, MI6, the FBI , CIA or the ghost of Mother Teresa of Calcutta to kick in me door and punish me for being such a wicked nasty person... :)
Peace & Love everybods... :D
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: TheBilgeRat on May 04, 2011, 11:14:52 PM
Quote from: koaftder;635489
Let me guess, you're the gay spammer over at moobunny?
Nice. I'd say yes, but the IP doesn't lie. Unless it does. Which it doesn't.
You really have your dog in this fight. Well, ulcer away, angry redneck. Ulcer away.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Iggy on May 04, 2011, 11:15:35 PM
Quote from: koaftder;635487
I'd rather be a self righteous asshole than Franko's gimp.
And Poof! You are!
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Fraggle1 on May 04, 2011, 11:17:11 PM
@ bloodline
I appreciate what you're saying, though perhaps in your case it's a little more subjective than for others ? Most here have nothing of their own to lose, so have little interest in seeing that copyright law is respected, I think. Good idea about the "special place", far too much 'copyright camping' happening today. Can't imagine that the legal profession would like it much - they make far too much money from things the way they are.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: bloodline on May 04, 2011, 11:27:39 PM
Quote from: Fraggle1;635494
@ bloodline
I appreciate what you're saying, though perhaps in your case it's a little more subjective than for others ? Most here have nothing of their own to lose, so have little interest in seeing that copyright law is respected, I think. Good idea about the "special place", far too much 'copyright camping' happening today. Can't imagine that the legal profession would like it much - they make far too much money from things the way they are.
Like most things, it's hard to see when you're on the other side of the fence... So to speak... I think most people here are probably quite happy with the law that protects their possessions... It is illegal for me to break into someone's house and steal their DVDs. We don't get to pick and choose the law, if we don't like the laws of our country we can in theory vote in a government who will change the laws, but enough people have to dislike that law, that is the consequence of living in a civilised society.
Again for the record, I think big corporations have abused both copyright and patent law to the point of making them a joke... But if I expect the law to protect me then I have to respect it, even if I don't like all of it :(
-Edit- On topic, if Franko wants to challenge Amiga Inc's claim to the AmigaOS IP, then he needs to do it properly, not through piracy but through the legal system!
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Iggy on May 04, 2011, 11:27:47 PM
You know, I don't see anyone here being nearly this anal about other Amiga properties like the boing ball.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Fats on May 04, 2011, 11:30:25 PM
Quote from: Iggy;635459
They can always be re-posted and I don't have to link to it to mention amigauk.com.
BTW - Why is this issue important to you Staf? Surely you don't believe that Bill McEwen deserves to be well treated? The original AmigaInc in Washington still hasn't paid off its bad debts.
As an open source guy I like strict enforcement of all IP laws, it is advantageous for open source. Maybe I missed something but Franko is distributing copyrighted material without permission. The rest is bullshit.
greets, Staf.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: LordSpunky on May 04, 2011, 11:32:43 PM
I still think it is all a load of crap really. This is Workbench we are talking about! On aging floppies! (insert joke here) If my original's are gone then I need a replacement or my original C-Amiga hardware isn't as it should be, as I said before, Amiga-Inc let me pay you £5 / £10 / £20 for a Workbench disc set.....or make them PD or until then Franko it is!.....I wonder if these haters unlock their mobile phones???!!!!!
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Iggy on May 04, 2011, 11:35:16 PM
one Bloodline. We can choiose
Quote from: bloodline;635495
Like most things, it's hard to see when you're on the other side of the fence... So to speak... I think most people here are probably quite happy with the law that protects their possessions... It is illegal for me to break into someone's house and steal their DVDs. We don't get to pick and choose the law, if we don't like the laws of our country we can in theory vote in a government who will change the laws, but enough people have to dislike that law, that is the consequence of living in a civilised society.
Again for the record, I think big corporations have abused both copyright and patent law to the point of making them a joke... But if I expect the law to protect me then I have to respect it, even if I don't like all of it :(
Actually, you're wrong on that one Bloodline. We can choose to disobey a law. Its the entire core of civil disobedience. There are two ways to defeat a law that is unpopular. One is the way you mentioned (working through the political system). The other is to refuse to submit to it and fight it out in the courts. If it wasn't for this later method (and jury nullification) prohibition would not have been as easily defeated in my country.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Iggy on May 04, 2011, 11:39:26 PM
Quote from: Fats;635497
As an open source guy I like strict enforcement of all IP laws, it is advantageous for open source. Maybe I missed something but Franko is distributing copyrighted material without permission. The rest is bullshit.
greets, Staf.
I appreciate your opinion on this Staf. But I can't defend the copyright holder. He's dishonest.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: koaftder on May 04, 2011, 11:41:35 PM
Quote from: Iggy;635499
one Bloodline. We can choiose
Actually, you're wrong on that one Bloodline. We can choose to disobey a law. Its the entire core of civil disobedience. There are two ways to defeat a law that is unpopular. One is the way you mentioned (working through the political system). The other is to refuse to submit to it and fight it out in the courts. If it wasn't for this later method (and jury nullification) prohibition would not have been as easily defeated in my country.
Does it make sense to try and affect change in copyright law by spamming drive-by diarrhea on the forum?
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: bloodline on May 04, 2011, 11:43:13 PM
Quote from: Iggy;635499
one Bloodline. We can choiose
Actually, you're wrong on that one Bloodline. We can choose to disobey a law. Its the entire core of civil disobedience. There are two ways to defeat a law that is unpopular. One is the way you mentioned (working through the political system). The other is to refuse to submit to it and fight it out in the courts.
As I have stated, I would prefer Franko take this approach, and challenge A Inc properly rather than resort to piracy.
Quote
If it wasn't for this later method (and jury nullification) prohibition would not have been as easily defeated in my country.
Well good for you!
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Iggy on May 04, 2011, 11:51:59 PM
Quote from: bloodline;635504
As I have stated, I would prefer Franko take this approach, and challenge A Inc properly rather than resort to piracy.
I think this actually IS Franko's intent. He has no other motive. Posting the files either provokes a reaction or it doesn't. And if it doesn't, well that's very telling in itself.
Quote
Well good for you!
Yes, it sounds stupid, doesn't it? Civilized country allows a vocal minority to promote the passage of an unpopular law. Prohibiting alcohol production and consumption. What were we thinking? But its a great example of how civil disobedience works.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: desiv on May 04, 2011, 11:53:34 PM
Quote from: koaftder;635469
I reported it because AO isn't a warez trading post, never was and never should be.
Good for you. It's important to be consistant and stick up for your beliefs. If you believe that illegally acquiring software is wrong, it's important to support that belief...
Hey.... What's this search feature on this forum I've found? :confused:
Quote from: koaftder
Quote from: Super TWiT
Actually, I seem to have gotten that confused with the amiga developer cd (http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=598). GAAH! This is offtopic, but I noticed that natami has a copy of the rkm manuals (http://www.natami.net/dev/). Is that legal? I always wanted a digital version, but I don't want to steal it. I know other sites have it, but I always thought they pirated it.
Who cares? Grab it and use it.
Hmmm.... :roflmao:
desiv
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Iggy on May 04, 2011, 11:54:31 PM
Quote from: koaftder;635503
Does it make sense to try and affect change in copyright law by spamming drive-by diarrhea on the forum?
You're definitely one step away from the ignore list (and I've never done that to anyone here). If you can't be civil, I have no use for you.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: koaftder on May 04, 2011, 11:55:16 PM
Quote from: Iggy;635507
You're definitely one step away from the ignore list (and I've never done that to anyone here). If you can't be civil, I have no use for you.
Please ignore me. I could fucking care less.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Iggy on May 04, 2011, 11:56:34 PM
Quote from: desiv;635506
Good for you. It's important to be consistant and stick up for your beliefs. If you believe that illegally acquiring software is wrong, it's important to support that belief...
Hey.... What's this search feature on this forum I've found? :confused:
Hmmm.... :roflmao:
desiv
Thank you desiv! Oh, that's rich. Not JUST a self righteous ahole, but a hypocrite.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: koaftder on May 04, 2011, 11:57:39 PM
Quote from: desiv;635506
Good for you. It's important to be consistant and stick up for your beliefs. If you believe that illegally acquiring software is wrong, it's important to support that belief...
Hey.... What's this search feature on this forum I've found? :confused:
Hmmm.... :roflmao:
desiv
You should read some of my other posts, I do not and never have given a damn about copying software and have bluntly said that in other posts. My issue is posting it in the forum. I have never posted links to copyrighted software on the forum. There are other more appropriate places for that.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: desiv on May 04, 2011, 11:59:53 PM
Quote from: koaftder;635510
You should read some of my other posts, I do not and never have given a damn about copying software and have bluntly said that in other posts. My issue is posting it in the forum. I have never posted links to copyrighted software on the forum. There are other more appropriate places for that.
Yet you didn't reply to the other post with something like: "Hey, don't post that link! I've reported you!!!"
Why do I get the feeling that, if Franko had made the other post, your reply would have been different???
desiv
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Iggy on May 05, 2011, 12:03:42 AM
Quote from: koaftder;635510
You should read some of my other posts, I do not and never have given a damn about copying software and have bluntly said that in other posts. My issue is posting it in the forum. I have never posted links to copyrighted software on the forum. There are other more appropriate places for that.
That's the entire breadth of your objection? You're not against software piracy, you're against free speech? This gets stranger by the minute.
You know, I'm not really familiar with you so I apologize if you thought the self righteous comment was actually directed at you. It wasn't, it was a true statement of my beliefs.
But your posts have been deteriorating since you got offended. You might want to back away from that computer for a while.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: koaftder on May 05, 2011, 12:05:31 AM
Quote from: desiv;635512
Yet you didn't reply to the other post with something like: "Hey, don't post that link! I've reported you!!!"
Why do I get the feeling that, if Franko had made the other post, your reply would have been different???
desiv
I don't think those manuals are something that wasn't intended to be copied around. I have some of that documentation archived somewhere, in HTML i think. Developer documentation isn't usually something under lock and key. It wasn't the same situation. You didn't have a guy who repeadely trolls the board trying to piss people off by dancing around the site TOS.
Franko is saying, HEY EVERYBODY, COME AND DOWN LOAD MUH FUCKIN WORK BENCH WAREZ!!!
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: koaftder on May 05, 2011, 12:08:22 AM
Quote from: Iggy;635514
That's the entire breadth of your objection? You're not against software piracy, you're against free speech? This gets stranger by the minute.
You know, I'm not really familiar with you so I apologize if you thought the self righteous comment was actually directed at you. It wasn't, it was a true statement of my beliefs.
But your posts have been deteriorating since you got offended. You might want to back away from that computer for a while.
I like that the site TOS says you can't post warez because I don't want to see the site turn into some shit hole ADF request lamer zone.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: desiv on May 05, 2011, 12:10:33 AM
Quote from: koaftder;635515
I don't think those manuals are something that wasn't intended to be copied around.
Possible that's what you think, but that's not what you said. You said "Who cares.."
desiv
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Iggy on May 05, 2011, 12:12:07 AM
Quote from: koaftder;635516
I like that the site TOS says you can't post warez because I don't want to see the site turn into some shit hole ADF request lamer zone.
On that I do relent because the last thing we need is to be diverted into that direction. I yield that one to you. Its a valid point.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Fraggle1 on May 05, 2011, 12:15:18 AM
"I don't think those manuals are something that wasn't intended to be copied around."
Completely wrong. If memory serves, the developer documentation was quite restricted in it's availability, & once rather expensive.
"Franko is saying, HEY EVERYBODY, COME AND DOWN LOAD MUH FUCKIN WORK BENCH WAREZ!!!"
No he isn't. He's challenging AI/whoever to prevent him from doing so.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Iggy on May 05, 2011, 12:23:37 AM
Quote from: Fraggle1;635519
"I don't think those manuals are something that wasn't intended to be copied around."
Completely wrong. If memory serves, the developer documentation was quite restricted in it's availability, & once rather expensive.
"Franko is saying, HEY EVERYBODY, COME AND DOWN LOAD MUH FUCKIN WORK BENCH WAREZ!!!"
No he isn't. He's challenging AI/whoever to prevent him from doing so.
Well, you understand that idea now? Cool. That is the point. To provoke a challenge. Only then can the claim to ownership be questioned.
There is ONE problem though. Escom did create 3.1 (even if they may not have validly purchased the IP it was based on). And Gateway did buy Escom's property and transfer it to Amino. So, now the only really questionable transfer is Amiga Inc Washington to KMOS (aka Amiga Inc Delaware). And that transfer IS really questionable. It looks like an attempt to hide assets while defrauding creditors.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Franko on May 05, 2011, 12:23:39 AM
@ Desiv :roflmao:
That little item you found doesn't surprise me in the slightest, I know for a fact (as I have been reliably informed by the highest authorities here) about all the little campaigns to try and get be barred from this site for life... ;)
The usual nasty wee posts here in this thread are nothing to do with the Workbench disks and what I am trying to achieve, it's all to with the simple fact that I came along and I speak my mind on things and quite often tell people exactly what I think about what they have to say and they just don't like that nor can handle it... :)
It's one of the main reasons why I enjoy taking the mickey out of such folk here, if they want to behave like wee kiddies, be hypocrites and gibber absolute mince about things then I'm more than happy to rip the piss out of them until they stop taking themselves so seriously and realise this is simply a computer forum and not life and death... :)
Sometimes in life you come across such folk and you either choose to ignore them or like I do show them up for the fools that they are. Unfortunately for some odd reason Amigaland has more than it's fair share of them and I have to be on my toes to keep up with them all... :)
Still it makes for some interesting and often amusing threads here it's just a shame that some of them have to be nasty and personal at times about it and you have to resort to their level and fight like with like... :(
Still as long as you don't take any of it seriously then it's nothing more than good old entertainment... :D
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: koaftder on May 05, 2011, 12:33:56 AM
Quote from: Fraggle1;635519
"I don't think those manuals are something that wasn't intended to be copied around."
Completely wrong. If memory serves, the developer documentation was quite restricted in it's availability, & once rather expensive.
I personally own some of the physical RKM books but if I remember some of that documentation was later published in HTML and put out on the web. Maybe I'm wrong? Who cares? It's not the same situation.
Quote
"Franko is saying, HEY EVERYBODY, COME AND DOWN LOAD MUH FUCKIN WORK BENCH WAREZ!!!"
No he isn't. He's challenging AI/whoever to prevent him from doing so.
That's exactly what he's doing. This isn't for challenging shit, it's pure trolling bullshit. It's the kind of bull shit that would get you instantly smacked in a heart beat the whole time Wayne ran the site and Franko knows this. For a guy who's "new to the internet", he just happens to know all of the right buttons to push to start a flame war in amiga land doesn't he?
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: TheBilgeRat on May 05, 2011, 12:36:51 AM
Quote from: koaftder;635516
I like that the site TOS says you can't post warez because I don't want to see the site turn into some shit hole ADF request lamer zone.
I like the TOS because it says you can't swear or make personal attacks...
How much of the TOS have you violated today?
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Franko on May 05, 2011, 12:37:29 AM
Quote from: koaftder;635516
I like that the site TOS says you can't post warez because I don't want to see the site turn into some shit hole ADF request lamer zone.
So why are people allowed to post links to "Warez" on Aminet, why are people allowed to post links to demos to download, why are people allowed to post links to software that is free to download or written by themselves whether it be for the Amiga or some other computer system altogether !!!
So because you don't like something then no-one should be able to ask other folks here "where can I find such and such"...
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean the rest of us have to follow your line of thought and dislike things cos you don't want them...
If that's your argument then find a site you do like or simply ignore things you don't like and let others do things they like or want to ask, instead of trying to impose your way of life on everyone else, you really take the biscuit so you do... :rolleyes:
One final point the TOS does not say "you can't post warez because I don't want to see the site turn into some shit hole ADF request lamer zone." that's you who said that not the site... talk about making things up... gawd... :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Franko on May 05, 2011, 12:47:46 AM
Quote from: koaftder;635523
I personally own some of the physical RKM books but if I remember some of that documentation was later published in HTML and put out on the web. Maybe I'm wrong? Who cares? It's not the same situation.
That's exactly what he's doing. This isn't for challenging shit, it's pure trolling bullshit. It's the kind of bull shit that would get you instantly smacked in a heart beat the whole time Wayne ran the site and Franko knows this. For a guy who's "new to the internet", he just happens to know all of the right buttons to push to start a flame war in amiga land doesn't he?
Once again it fine for you to do something illegal and tell us no-one should care you hypocritical dunderheid...
I know frig all about Wayne and how he ran the site has sod all to do with me, being new to the internet, what's that got to do with anything !!!
Use all the silly little made up internet words you want "trolling", "flame wars" they mean sod all to me, what you get here is how I would speak to you in person, only I'm being a lot more polite here than I would be in real life...
So keep on making up stories in your own warped mind if you want to, maybe one day you'll finally realise you're living in cloud cuckoo land and finally snap out of it, but I wont be holding my breath until you do so... ;)
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: commodorejohn on May 05, 2011, 12:48:13 AM
Quote from: koaftder;635523
I personally own some of the physical RKM books but if I remember some of that documentation was later published in HTML and put out on the web. Maybe I'm wrong? Who cares? It's not the same situation.
Interesting that your copying things of unknown/muddy legal status is somehow A-okay...
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: koaftder on May 05, 2011, 12:57:21 AM
I have NEVER offered or posted any copyrighted material on this forum. If some folks on the site think it would be awesome to post stuff that has always been against the rules since the inception of the site, then why don't you ask the site owner to change the rule so it will be all official and there will be no need to argue about it.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Franko on May 05, 2011, 01:13:25 AM
Quote from: koaftder;635530
I have NEVER offered or posted any copyrighted material on this forum. If some folks on the site think it would be awesome to post stuff that has always been against the rules since the inception of the site, then why don't you ask the site owner to change the rule so it will be all official and there will be no need to argue about it.
Can't say whether you have or haven't as I've not checked, but I can say you have advised other folk to do "Illegal" things so why with all the hypocrisy, I really don't understand you... ;)
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Iggy on May 05, 2011, 01:17:13 AM
Quote from: commodorejohn;635528
Interesting that your copying things of unknown/muddy legal status is somehow A-okay...
So I think we're finally reaching an unusual consensus, maybe the issue isn't clear cut and Franko does have a purpose in pushing this matter.
This is not a simple issue of piracy.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: TheBilgeRat on May 05, 2011, 01:18:58 AM
Quote from: koaftder;635530
I have NEVER offered or posted any copyrighted material on this forum. If some folks on the site think it would be awesome to post stuff that has always been against the rules since the inception of the site, then why don't you ask the site owner to change the rule so it will be all official and there will be no need to argue about it.
And while you are at it, perhaps you clean up that potty mouth and keep it civil, since those rules have also been in place since the sites inception, mmkay?
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: nicholas on May 05, 2011, 01:27:01 AM
Nice find Desiv! :roflmao:
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Iggy on May 05, 2011, 01:28:32 AM
Quote from: TheBilgeRat;635538
And while you are at it, perhaps you clean up that potty mouth and keep it civil, since those rules have also been in place since the sites inception, mmkay?
Thank you very much sir. We may not agree, but we should remain polite.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: SilvrDrgn on May 05, 2011, 01:32:27 AM
Franko,
I am politely requesting that you remove all references, mentions and links to both your sites in all of your messages here and in all other threads to which you have posted them. Please also remove the link from your signature. While we cannot control what you have on your own site, we do control what is here on this site. Your posting of the links is a violation of our policies here. Thank you!
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Franko on May 05, 2011, 01:36:08 AM
Quote from: Iggy;635536
So I think we're finally reaching an unusual consensus, maybe the issue isn't clear cut and Franko does have a purpose in pushing this matter.
This is not a simple issue of piracy.
I'll try and make it as plain and simple for all to understand what my aim is for all of this... :)
I simply believe that when it comes to the Workbench Disk Sets from 1.3 to 3.1 that they should either be made available to download or buy in physical format by whomever still legally owns them whether they give them away for free or charge a fee for them.
As I believe their are still plenty of us out there who would appreciate being able to do so.
Now if whomever still legally owns them doesn't want to as It would not be a viable business idea then why not let someone like myself do so. I would be happy to pay for a licence or distribution rights out of my own pocket but I would never try to sell or make money from them as I don't need to.
I just want for folk to be able to obtain these without all this nonsense of not being able to mention it on forums and if we all keep quite about it and pretend we don't know where to get them then all is right with the world, that's just childish nonsense.
Why would I want to do this, simple as your probably fed up of hearing by now the Amiga is the only computer I use, like and enjoy and for those who still use them also I just want to have this stuff freely available for all who need them.
I have no hidden agenda, I'm just a lifelong Amiga fan who wants to keep this old machine going as long as possible and in the process help others to do so as well in whatever small way I can... :)
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Franko on May 05, 2011, 01:38:55 AM
Quote from: SilvrDrgn;635544
Franko,
I am politely requesting that you remove all references, mentions and links to both your sites in all of your messages here and in all other threads to which you have posted them. Please also remove the link from your signature. While we cannot control what you have on your own site, we do control what is here on this site. Your posting of the links is a violation of our policies here. Thank you!
I don't mind removing the link to AmigaUK.com but I have to ask why I need to remove the link to CommodoreScotland.com as it is not breaking TOS of the site.
Thank You
Frank Spiers
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Iggy on May 05, 2011, 01:41:32 AM
Quote from: SilvrDrgn;635544
Franko,
I am politely requesting that you remove all references, mentions and links to both your sites in all of your messages here and in all other threads to which you have posted them. Please also remove the link from your signature. While we cannot control what you have on your own site, we do control what is here on this site. Your posting of the links is a violation of our policies here. Thank you!
Micheal, bot to tell you your job, but if this is the conclusion you've come to then its your job to lock the thread, censor/edit the posts, and remove all references to Franko's sites. And you're either going to have to ban me or edit my signature yourself, because I don't intend to remove references to Franko's site.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: SilvrDrgn on May 05, 2011, 01:46:09 AM
Quote from: Franko;635548
I don't mind removing the link to AmigaUK.com but I have to ask why I need to remove the link to CommodoreScotland.com as it is not breaking TOS of the site.
I believe we received a report on the link in your signature. I'll have to go back and look again. Looking at the site, it doesn't appear to have much to do with Amiga or Commodore stuff.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: SilvrDrgn on May 05, 2011, 01:48:33 AM
Quote from: Iggy;635549
Micheal, bot to tell you your job, but if this is the conclusion you've come to then its your job to lock the thread, censor/edit the posts, and remove all references to Franko's sites. And you're either going to have to ban me or edit my signature yourself, because I don't intend to remove references to Franko's site.
Franko asked and offered to remove the link(s) himself. I figured I would give him the benefit of the doubt. If it comes to it, since there are so many of them, we might just end up deleting this entire thread outright, but we'll cross that bridge if we come to it. Oh, and I'd appreciate if you spell my name correctly - it's "a" before "e." Thanks! :)
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Iggy on May 05, 2011, 01:51:36 AM
Quote from: SilvrDrgn;635551
I believe we received a report on the link in your signature. I'll have to go back and look again. Looking at the site, it doesn't appear to have much to do with Amiga or Commodore stuff.
Well that's interesting.
Amigauk . obviously DOES have something to do with Amiga (even if it violates TOS).
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Franko on May 05, 2011, 01:52:00 AM
Quote from: Iggy;635549
Micheal, bot to tell you your job, but if this is the conclusion you've come to then its your job to lock the thread, censor/edit the posts, and remove all references to Franko's sites. And you're either going to have to ban me or edit my signature yourself, because I don't intend to remove references to Franko's site.
Iggy don't get yourself into any bother because of me. I'll gladly remove the link I posted earlier and you should do the same if asked... :)
But as for the link to CommodoreScotland.com being removed then I have PM'd SlvrDragn as there is nothing on CommodoreScotland.com that violates the TOS of this site... :)
If I am going to be forced to remove the CommodoreScotland.com link too then I shall be taking this up with Transition as I feel this is totally uncalled for... :)
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: SilvrDrgn on May 05, 2011, 01:53:32 AM
Quote from: Iggy;635554
Well that's interesting.
Amigauk obviously DOES have something to do with Amiga (even if it violates TOS).
I was talking about the CommodoreScotland one.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Iggy on May 05, 2011, 01:53:44 AM
Quote from: SilvrDrgn;635553
Franko asked and offered to remove the link(s) himself. I figured I would give him the benefit of the doubt. If it comes to it, since there are so many of them, we might just end up deleting this entire thread outright, but we'll cross that bridge if we come to it. Oh, and I'd appreciate if you spell my name correctly - it's "a" before "e." Thanks! :)
I always get that wrong. Sorry.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: SilvrDrgn on May 05, 2011, 01:55:30 AM
Quote from: Franko;635555
Iggy don't get yourself into any bother because of me. I'll gladly remove the AmigaUK.com link I posted earlier and you should do the same if asked... :)
But as for the link to CommodoreScotland.com being removed then I have PM'd SlvrDragn as there is nothing on CommodoreScotland.com that violates the TOS of this site... :)
If I am going to be forced to remove the CommodoreScotland.com link too then I shall be taking this up with Transition as I feel this is totally uncalled for... :)
All mentions of the AmigaUK link should be removed. As far as the CommodoreScotland one, I guess it's all right to leave that one unless one of the other moderators says otherwise.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Iggy on May 05, 2011, 01:56:30 AM
Quote from: Franko;635555
Iggy don't get yourself into any bother because of me. I'll gladly remove the AmigaUK.com link I posted earlier and you should do the same if asked... :)
But as for the link to CommodoreScotland.com being removed then I have PM'd SlvrDragn as there is nothing on CommodoreScotland.com that violates the TOS of this site... :)
If I am going to be forced to remove the CommodoreScotland.com link too then I shall be taking this up with Transition as I feel this is totally uncalled for... :)
Very well. I'm removing my that part of my signature AND replacing it with a reference to Commodorescotland, because this really has become an important issue. AND, I'm calling it a night because we are now into full cenorship mode and I don't care to participate. Thanks for the KS 3.1 files Franko. i admire the fact that you tried.
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: Franko on May 05, 2011, 02:10:25 AM
Quote from: Iggy;635559
Very well. I'm removing my that part of my signature AND replacing it with a reference to Commodorescotland, because this really has become an important issue. AND, I'm calling it a night because we are now into full cenorship mode and I don't care to participate. Thanks for the KS 3.1 files Franko. i admire the fact that you tried.
No problems mate and thanks for the support but this is not over by a long shot... :)
Hopefully when all this nonsense and pettiness is finally over we shall all be able to safely utter in public places without fear of being crucified the immortal words...
"Get Yer WorkBench Downloads Ere..."
Title: Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
Post by: SysAdmin on May 05, 2011, 07:03:23 AM
Cloanto is a valued developer and friend to Amiga.org. Please remove any links and Downloadable copies of Workbench disks. Buying the ultimate Amiga Virtual Machine is very easy.