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Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Announcements and Press Releases => Topic started by: Argo on April 27, 2011, 04:53:45 AM

Title: Open Amiga
Post by: Argo on April 27, 2011, 04:53:45 AM
From the Hyperion Entertainment Blog:

We often hear about software developers and eager users wanting to help the Amiga Operating System move forward with new functionality and bug fixes.
One way to get involved is by joining the Open Amiga effort. The Open Amiga web site has plenty of projects which software developers may want to tackle to enhance AmigaOS.
Open Amiga is not just for developers. Users may also contribute.

Needed personnel include:
* Developers and others who can join the main work group
* Interested parties that provide feedback in the forums
* People who can write developer guides and guidelines (how to's, do's and don'ts)
* Web developers for building the infrastructure
* People who gather available developer documentation from the net

Judging from the dates, many of the projects have fallen on hard times. Go ahead and grab one and start going.

http://blog.hyperion-entertainment.biz/?p=322
Title: Re: Open Amiga
Post by: Trev on April 27, 2011, 06:02:16 AM
Much more interesting is the call for OS developers in the blog entry immediately following this one.
Title: Re: Open Amiga
Post by: Kesa on April 27, 2011, 07:37:51 AM
Hmmmph *sticks nose up in air*. Cheap labour.
Title: Re: Open Amiga
Post by: persia on April 27, 2011, 11:43:36 AM
Since the OS is closed source the term "open Amiga" is an oxymoron.  BSD, Linux, Haiku and AROS are open.  You want an Open Amiga then release the source code and let us work with it.
Title: Re: Open Amiga
Post by: brownb2 on April 27, 2011, 12:24:39 PM
Quote from: persia;633877
Since the OS is closed source the term "open Amiga" is an oxymoron.  BSD, Linux, Haiku and AROS are open.  You want an Open Amiga then release the source code and let us work with it.

+1

The Amiga OS as it stands is way behind the development curve of Linux and Windows, and while I certainly wouldn't say it's worthless, without large scale investment, allowing large scale development and publicity, it's going nowhere. Open sourcing is a way to get the large scale development and the publicity for "free".

If we could get it up to date, have it runnning QT, WxWidgets, Java, .Net, a posix layer (cygwin like) etc you're opening up to a whole new world of developers and compatibility with other more popular operating systems and architectures.

Then again we always have the open source Aros, MorphOS etc etc to eat away at whatever market share is left instead...
Title: Re: Open Amiga
Post by: Gulliver on April 27, 2011, 12:59:06 PM
Quote from: persia;633877
Since the OS is closed source the term "open Amiga" is an oxymoron.  BSD, Linux, Haiku and AROS are open.  You want an Open Amiga then release the source code and let us work with it.


+1

They are indeed looking for cheap labour for a closed source commercial OS that is even falling behind AROS in many places.
Title: Re: Open Amiga
Post by: nicholas on April 27, 2011, 01:07:10 PM
Bloody name stealers! ;)
Title: Re: Open Amiga
Post by: yssing on April 27, 2011, 02:22:51 PM
All I know is php, the rest I have more os less forgotten.. Would love to help out, but I don't have the skills.. :(
Title: Re: Open Amiga
Post by: EDanaII on April 27, 2011, 03:08:50 PM
If they put AmigaOS on hardware I could afford, I'd be happy to contribute. Until then, I won't waste my time... or money... :)
Title: Re: Open Amiga
Post by: jorkany on April 27, 2011, 03:17:16 PM
Sorry but you OS4 lot have screwed the pooch.
Title: Re: Open Amiga
Post by: dammy on April 27, 2011, 04:00:41 PM
Open Amiga? OS4 going open source?
Title: Re: Open Amiga
Post by: nicholas on April 27, 2011, 04:59:15 PM
Quote from: dammy;633915
Open Amiga? OS4 going open source?


Well it's not far off transforming into Linux as it is....
Title: Re: Open Amiga
Post by: persia on April 27, 2011, 05:24:04 PM
An Open (source) Amiga could be ported to the hardware of choice by those interested in doing so.  The best open source model is the one that developed in Linux.  Use that model.  Hyperion could serve in the role that Canonical does in Linux.  Merge Open Amiga and AROS.

Quote from: EDanaII;633904
If they put AmigaOS on hardware I could afford, I'd be happy to contribute. Until then, I won't waste my time... or money... :)
Title: Re: Open Amiga
Post by: haywirepc on April 27, 2011, 06:41:49 PM
"Open Amiga? OS4 going open source? "
 
I agree with previous posters. If you want people to contribute you need to make it run on hardware anyone can afford. And also, starting an open source initiative for a closed source os is definitely cause for ridicule.
 
Why would people work for free on an os that is not open while they are selling 1000$ motherboards to run this os on and keeping all the money?
 
I also agree they are just looking for cheap (free) labor. You want to sell your os? Then PAY developers.
 
Thats ludicrous. IMHO.
 
Steven
Title: Re: Open Amiga
Post by: eliyahu on April 27, 2011, 06:47:49 PM
Quote from: haywirepc;633951
"Open Amiga? OS4 going open source? "
 
I agree with previous posters. If you want people to contribute you need to make it run on hardware anyone can afford. And also, starting an open source initiative for a closed source os is definitely cause for ridicule.
 
Why would people work for free on an os that is not open while they are selling 1000$ motherboards to run this os on and keeping all the money?
 
I also agree they are just looking for cheap (free) labor. You want to sell your os? Then PAY developers.
 
Thats ludicrous. IMHO.
 
Steven
steven, i don't think you're being entirely fair here.  openamiga.org has existed for years now and is independent of hyperion.  i think steve solie just posted on the hyperion blog about it to call attention to it.

and people have been working on those projects for years.  they are offered to OS4 users, not 'taken' by hyperion.  some have been added to OS4 as contributions over the years, but i think you guys are really misinterpreting all of this.  the only difference between this and normal development is that if you use the openamiga.org infrastructure, you are expected to keep your source open.  that's it.

@thread

this is not about OS4 going the FOSS route.  it's just calling attention to a site/community that has existed for years to those who might not know about it. i know this place isn't exactly full of people who like hyperion, but sheesh.

-- eliyahu
Title: Re: Open Amiga
Post by: Argo on April 27, 2011, 07:42:56 PM
Quote from: Kesa;633857
Hmmmph *sticks nose up in air*. Cheap labour.


Yeah, Linux and BSD suck. Cheapos...
Title: Re: Open Amiga
Post by: Argo on April 27, 2011, 07:46:50 PM
Quote from: nicholas;633930
Well it's not far off transforming into Linux as it is....


I'd rather see a BSD base.
Title: Re: Open Amiga
Post by: Cammy on April 27, 2011, 09:33:04 PM
I am an enthusiastic and devoted Amiga user and new developer currently working on several small applications for the Amiga OSs. I have spent the last year learning to program in an Amiga-specific language with the intention of creating nothing but Amiga software over the foreseeable future.

I have always had a problem with the Open Amiga site. Back when it was started I expressed my opinion that it should include all Amiga development, combining our efforts to develop new cross-compatible Amiga software and pushing the entire platform forward together, not just one small aspect of it (OS4). I was of course dismissed, and reported for abuse (on AmigaWorld) for daring to suggest that OS3, Aros and MorphOS should also have a place on the Open Amiga site.

I don't own and can't afford to purchase AmigaOS4, let alone the expensive custom hardware it runs on. It's not that I wouldn't like a Sam, I'd love one, but there's no way I could buy one. That still doesn't mean I wouldn't like to write new software for OS4. The software I'm working on can be compiled to run on all four Amiga OSs, it's original and native (not ported), uses common standards like Datatypes, Icon Tooltypes, Intuition Screens, MUI/Zune, system menus and everything else you would expect from real Amiga software. Over the last year or so I taught myself to program without any previous experience, no manual and with very minimal help online with no support forum. Despite the fact that Amiga development almost seems like a dead end, and everything I learn would be of no use if I were to start developing for a different platform I still press on, and won't stop trying to write new Amiga software.

At first I thought that I would simply hang around in Amiga development teams, betatesting, offering ideas, writing plots for games, design levels and do the easy work while the professionals handled the coding, graphics and music composition. But I soon found that the Amiga community was seriously lacking dedicated programmers, and the hobbyist ones seemed to give up or lose interest when real life got in the way. Even sadder is when someone who is a very dedicated, respected and inspirational Amiga developer, who works on software for all four Amiga OSs decides to abandon his work or only focus on a single system, or leave Amiga programming to make money with Microsoft and Apple.

That's something I would never do. I'm in it for the long run, 100% dedicated to developing for all Amiga systems. The software I will create may not blow any minds, but it will try to fill in the gaps in our software library. There are several applications and utilities we're lacking which I would use myself, and those are the ones I'm working on first, as well as a couple of small games.

Developing for other, non-Amiga operating systems and platforms doesn't interest me even though I use a lot of alternative OSs casually (which is good for research and ideas), so if I wasn't dedicating myself to writing new Amiga software I'd probably do something completely different with my life. It doesn't stop at wanting to develop software, I've also invented a few simple hardware designs that I would love to see hit production which would be well received by the Amiga community, I'm creating a fictional universe for the setting of an upcoming online comic series I'm penning which will include several tie-in games (for Amigas), writing guides and tutorials for an Amiga book I'd like to publish (which will be free to download), filming and editing a few (free of charge) promotional videos for Amiga hardware and software developers, and modelling for an Amiga Game Girls calendar for 2012. And that's only a few of the projects I'm involved with, I'm full of ideas and enthusiasm.

So, three years have passed that we could have been working together. How is the situation now? Was the decision to exclude three quarters of the Amiga community a good idea, or should Open Amiga have actually been true to its name from the start and been open for all Amiga development and support? How many fresh new developers have jumped onboard eager to learn to program for an obscure, expensive and uncertain platform decades after it had any chance of success?

I'll offer my advice again. Make Open Amiga a truly open community effort that includes OS3, Aros and MorphOS along with OS4 and actively promotes cooperation and teamwork within our community. Try to get over any biases you have against other Amiga systems and realize that we're in this together, our only chance may be to work together at last. I don't mean to force all projects to be cross-platform, but at least let us have the option to host projects that aren't specifically targeted at OS4. Anything started on one Amiga OS can always be ported to the others if there's enough support and encouragement.

So Open Amiga is asking for developers. Did they even think about where these developers are supposed to come from?

First of all, don't you think anyone who already owns OS4 and wants to program for it already knows about your site? Or do you think that someone who does not own OS4 or the hardware it runs on would spend months or years of their life writing software for you to use when they can't use it themselves?

What type of programmer do you want? Someone with no previous Amiga experience, who has only worked on Windows, Macs or some other non-Amiga platform, or would you prefer someone who grew up using Amigas and loves it enough to have stuck around, using one of the available options until now? Is a program ported from Aros so much worse than one ported from Linux?

I don't know where you expect to find new developers to join your effort, but I wish you luck. I hope that you will reconsider the purpose of a site like that and try being a little more reasonable.
Title: Re: Open Amiga
Post by: persia on April 27, 2011, 10:10:33 PM
Technically Hyperion have no right to "Open Amiga" only "Open AmigaOS"
Title: Re: Open Amiga
Post by: Karlos on April 27, 2011, 10:17:25 PM
Quote from: persia;633991
Technically Hyperion have no right to "Open Amiga" only "Open AmigaOS"


I'm pretty sure somebody already pointed out above that the openamiga.org is  independent of Hyperion.
Title: Re: Open Amiga
Post by: EDanaII on April 28, 2011, 01:14:13 AM
Quote from: eliyahu;633952
steven, i don't think you're being entirely fair here.  openamiga.org has existed for years now and is independent of hyperion.  i think steve solie just posted on the hyperion blog about it to call attention to it.


Ironically, I don't think that really changes anything. Speaking for myself, of course, I'd love to contribute, but their ain't nuthin' they're offering that's really worth it. And, no, I don't hate Hyperion.
Title: Re: Open Amiga
Post by: Kesa on April 28, 2011, 01:40:59 AM
Quote from: Argo;633966
Yeah, Linux and BSD suck. Cheapos...

I was talking about Hyperion. They just want people to develop their software for free and then keep all the profit. The only Amiga platform i would volunteer for would be Aros. BTW i really like Linux and BSD.

p.s. internet surfing using a ps3 sucks  :(
Title: Re: Open Amiga
Post by: persia on April 28, 2011, 03:34:01 AM
Since HYperion have and own the code, how can you have an Open source AmigaOS without them?

Quote from: Karlos;633992
I'm pretty sure somebody already pointed out above that the openamiga.org is  independent of Hyperion.
Title: Re: Open Amiga
Post by: utri007 on April 28, 2011, 06:48:18 AM
It seems that you have only read titles ;) This is not about Amiga OS, it is about other software and help
Title: Re: Open Amiga
Post by: fishy_fiz on April 28, 2011, 07:00:25 AM
People are funny creatures. Exact same bit of text and different interperatations. Of all the "amiga" options OS4.x is the one Im least interested in, yet I read this text and thought, "cool, not a bad idea, trying to pool whatever development resources are available in an organised type manner" whereas others chose to argue semantincs over name "Open Amiga".

Just another demonstration of why my interest in amiga is dying. More than anything else its the "fans" that are destroying the system.
Title: Re: Open Amiga
Post by: persia on April 28, 2011, 12:19:56 PM
It's profoundly silly to talk about an Open Amiga without actually opening up AmigaOS!  What's open, the case cover?

Quote from: utri007;634058
It seems that you have only read titles ;) This is not about Amiga OS, it is about other software and help
Title: Re: Open Amiga
Post by: gertsy on April 28, 2011, 12:25:48 PM
Just one more time: Are they allowed to say Open Amiga.  
Shouldn't they say Open Sesame.?
Title: Re: Open Amiga
Post by: Gulliver on April 28, 2011, 01:00:30 PM
Quote from: gertsy;634083
Just one more time: Are they allowed to say Open Amiga.  
Shouldn't they say Open Sesame.?

No, they shouldnt, as it is also the name of a software app made by other company ;)
http://download.cnet.com/Open-Sesame/3000-2092_4-10481255.html

They should probably have no problems in saying "Open AmigaOne" though. LOL
Title: Re: Open Amiga
Post by: jorkany on April 28, 2011, 02:23:50 PM
Quote from: Gulliver;634091
No, they shouldnt, as it is also the name of a software app made by other company ;)
http://download.cnet.com/Open-Sesame/3000-2092_4-10481255.html

They should probably have no problems in saying "Open AmigaOne" though. LOL

As redrumola pointed out on another forum, OpenAmiga used to be for Amiga OS and also Amiga related OSes such as MOS, AROS, and OS4.

But somebody (Björn Hagström aka Orgin) poached the domain when it expired and made it OS4 only, thus excluding the developers. Now they are begging them to come back. Sad.
Title: Re: Open Amiga
Post by: _ThEcRoW on April 28, 2011, 09:22:24 PM
So, on what platform want the developers do their job?. PPC emulation under x86???. Crosscompiling isn't important here, as you need to check the code executing it.
Title: Re: Open Amiga
Post by: Hans_ on April 28, 2011, 09:56:12 PM
Quote from: persia;634080
It's profoundly silly to talk about an Open Amiga without actually opening up AmigaOS!  What's open, the case cover?


Every single project hosted on the Open Amiga site is open-source, and will remain that way (as per their open-source licenses); that's what's open. It is hoped that Hyperion will like (some of) these projects, and choose to make them an official part of the OS. If Hyperion do so then these modules will still remain open-source, even if other parts are still closed. This is rather similar to Mac OS X having large amounts of open-source code, while other parts are still closed.

I honestly don't get all the fuss. This site was created years ago in response to members of the community wanting to develop open-source OS modules that might eventually become official OS components. Recently, there have been people voicing their interest in helping to improve OS4, and the Open Amiga website is one possible avenue. Steven's blog post just highlights this site as an option, and I guess hints rather strongly that Hyperion has been paying attention to this community effort.

Hans
Title: Re: Open Amiga
Post by: Piru on April 28, 2011, 10:34:24 PM
Quote
Licenses such as GPL and LPGL should be avoided as much as possible.
I presume the last bit means LGPL. Why is LGPL considered evil? I can understand that GPL could be troublesome, but LGPL?

Even GPL can be used with a linking exception (https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/GPL_linking_exception).
Title: Re: Open Amiga
Post by: Argo on April 29, 2011, 12:06:15 AM
Quote from: persia;634049
Since HYperion have and own the code, how can you have an Open source AmigaOS without them?


*cough*AROS*cough*
Title: Re: Open Amiga
Post by: Argo on April 29, 2011, 12:09:48 AM
Quote from: persia;634080
It's profoundly silly to talk about an Open Amiga without actually opening up AmigaOS!  What's open, the case cover?


Why? You can have open source software on any platform. OpenAmiga.org is just the same as if there was an OpenWindow.org or OpenMac.org.  It is not about open sourcing AmigaOS. I doubt that is even possible if Hyperion had a desire to.
Title: Re: Open Amiga
Post by: persia on April 29, 2011, 03:55:43 AM
Someone else pointed out "Open Amiga" was about open source Amiga OS, but someone grabbed the domain and repurposed it....
Title: Re: Open Amiga
Post by: Argo on April 29, 2011, 04:52:13 AM
Yes, It was originally for open source programming on all Amiga flavors not just specifically AOS 4.0.
Title: Re: Open Amiga
Post by: Terminills on September 03, 2013, 02:11:45 AM
Quote from: persia;634289
Someone else pointed out "Open Amiga" was about open source Amiga OS, but someone grabbed the domain and repurposed it....


Nothing like resurrecting the dead... ;D   But anyway the old openamiga was about standardizing between platforms to allow for easy cross platform development.   Ironically at that time AROS didn't even meet the specs.  Times however have changed. :)

I do however miss my old domain. ;)
Title: Re: Open Amiga
Post by: persia on September 03, 2013, 02:23:56 AM
SHould call it Open (for your contribution but otherwise closed) Amiga...
Title: Re: Open Amiga
Post by: nicholas on September 05, 2013, 02:48:27 PM
Quote from: jorkany;634119
As redrumola pointed out on another forum, OpenAmiga used to be for Amiga OS and also Amiga related OSes such as MOS, AROS, and OS4.

But somebody (Björn Hagström aka Orgin) poached the domain when it expired and made it OS4 only, thus excluding the developers. Now they are begging them to come back. Sad.


It was first conceived of back in 2003 by myself, Bloodline, Terminills, filson, alx and a couple of others, before OS4 even existed.

Terminills let the domain expire after we gave up due to constant abuse from "Red trolls" and then one of them nabbed the domain for OS4 specific use.

http://openamiga.net is the new domain and this time we have the support and blessing of one of the founders of Hyperion; Mr Evert Carton.