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Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: jorkany on April 24, 2011, 06:46:03 PM

Title: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: jorkany on April 24, 2011, 06:46:03 PM
Evert Carton, one of two known managing partners at Hyperion, has stepped down and in fact claims to have completely abandoned the Amiga scene. Evert is best remembered for referring to AROS as "probably illegal".

http://amigaworld.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=5904&start=0
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: HenryCase on April 24, 2011, 06:49:05 PM
Have they confirmed the post is from him yet? I do suspect someone could be pulling a prank.
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: dammy on April 24, 2011, 09:30:48 PM
Quote from: HenryCase;633400
Have they confirmed the post is from him yet? I do suspect someone could be pulling a prank.


I doubt the AWN staff would post it as news if they didn't confirm it first.
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: HenryCase on April 24, 2011, 11:07:43 PM
Quote from: dammy;633411
I doubt the AWN staff would post it as news if they didn't confirm it first.


The user account was created the same day as the announcement:
http://amigaworld.net/userinfo.php?uid=10832

How does tomazkid respond to the question over whether the message is from Evert Carton:
http://amigaworld.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=5904&start=0#79264
Quote
Don't know why Jorit2, perhaps he forgot the password to Jorit account?

Anyone who was semi-competent at checking the validity of a post would know why a new account was created, as they'd have to question why it was done (if an explanation wasn't offered in the first place).

Also, the wording of the message is rather unprofessional in tone, certainly not how I'd expect a high ranking member of a company to conduct themselves.

So, in summary, whilst it may turn out to be a genuine message, the newly created account, non-professional tone and incompetence of AW.net moderators does not convince me that the message is genuine. I would suggest a personal message from Evert on the Hyperion website is a better way to officially announce a resignation, if that is what he has chosen to do.
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: Piru on April 24, 2011, 11:11:20 PM
Quote from: HenryCase;633427
unprofessional in tone, certainly not how I'd expect a high ranking member of a company to conduct themselves.

This is how I've found all Hyperion representatives to act.
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: WolfToTheMoon on April 24, 2011, 11:16:54 PM
They (Evert/Hyperion maybe even Trevor) could have denied it by this time... it's been up for some time now. So it's probably genuine... The really interesting question is what really happend for him to leave?
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: number6 on April 24, 2011, 11:29:45 PM
Quote from: WolfToTheMoon;633429
They (Evert/Hyperion maybe even Trevor) could have denied it by this time... it's been up for some time now. So it's probably genuine... The really interesting question is what really happend for him to leave?


Voila. (http://www.amigaworld.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=5904&start=20#79313)

#6
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: HenryCase on April 24, 2011, 11:35:18 PM
Quote from: WolfToTheMoon;633429
They (Evert/Hyperion maybe even Trevor) could have denied it by this time... it's been up for some time now. So it's probably genuine... The really interesting question is what really happend for him to leave?


I've just sent Hyperion an e-mail asking for clarification. Please remember that this announcement was made less than 24 hours ago, and on a Sunday (people unlikely to be at work). I'm not convinced AW.net moderators did their job properly, so I thought I'd do it for them. I'll let you all know if I get a response.
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: wawrzon on April 25, 2011, 12:09:56 AM
well, who cares? a guy, who probably most of us wasnt even aware existed, leaves. he himself, though claims have done things for amiga (?) says he is not an "amigan" and that his absence will change nothing at all. why do these people who keep completely silent about their involvement announce their retirement so vocal, it makes me wonder. but well, as i said, who does really care?
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: Gulliver on April 25, 2011, 12:46:39 AM
Well, at least Hyperion still has Benjamin Hermans to build lies and fight in court.
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: Akiko on April 25, 2011, 01:08:22 AM
Quote from:
Also, the wording of the message is rather unprofessional in tone, certainly not how I'd expect a high ranking member of a company to conduct themselves.
.


Quote from: Piru;633428
This is how I've found all Hyperion representatives to act.



Says the MorphOS representative with a habit of spamming OS4 related threads in a blatant attempt at promoting his own product, at least when Hyperion Reps / developers
were active on the forums they usually stuck with discussing their own stuff and were not obsessed with nitpicking and at undermining others.
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: Iggy on April 25, 2011, 01:34:05 AM
Quote from: Akiko;633439
Says the MorphOS representative with a habit of spamming OS4 related threads in a blatant attempt at promoting his own product, at least when Hyperion Reps / developers
were active on the forums they usually stuck with discussing their own stuff and were not obsessed with nitpicking and at undermining others.


You've obviously missed a lot of posts from Ben Hermans. Harry has every reason to be offended by Hyperion's executive's past statements.
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: XDelusion on April 25, 2011, 01:42:36 AM
Hyperion... meh....

I used to be so hopeful about them.
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: Piru on April 25, 2011, 01:44:09 AM
Quote from: Akiko;633439
Says the MorphOS representative with a habit of spamming OS4 related threads in a blatant attempt at promoting his own product

Care to back that claim up somehow?

I have expressed my critical opinion of OS4 (and other) hardware on several occasions but I don't think that qualifies as "spamming in a blatant attempt at promoting his own product". If you care to challenge any of the arguments I've presented in those threads, please do so.

Hyperion representatives on the other hand have been highly unprofessional on numerous occasions, the worst offender being Ben Hermans: http://www.biclodon.com/misc/amigafarm/benhermans/. Mr Evert is of course famous for this unfortunate and misguided comment of AROS being "probably illegal".
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: Fats on April 25, 2011, 01:55:12 AM
Quote from: Piru;633446
Care to back that claim up somehow?

Hyperion representatives on the other hand have been highly unprofessional on numerous occasions, the worst offender being Ben Hermans: http://www.biclodon.com/misc/amigafarm/benhermans/.


As was BB IMO. Why can't we let this rest ?

greets,
Staf.
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: billt on April 25, 2011, 03:02:52 AM
Quote from: jorkany;633398
Evert is best remembered for referring to AROS as "probably illegal".

That's not what I know him for. I don't know if he did or did not say that, but I think that other things he'd done/said are far more memorable to me than your maybe AROS thing.
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: number6 on April 25, 2011, 03:39:10 AM
Quote from: Piru;633446
Mr Evert is of course famous for this unfortunate and misguided comment of AROS being "probably illegal".



Regardless, the project was renamed.

"AROS: Renaming project
According to Aaron Digulla, initiator of the open source code operating system AROS, the name "Amiga" will be deleted from the project name because of the legal steps of Amiga Inc. against Hyperion."

#6
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: Kesa on April 25, 2011, 04:36:56 AM
Quote from: number6;633460
Regardless, the project was renamed.

"AROS: Renaming project
According to Aaron Digulla, initiator of the open source code operating system AROS, the name "Amiga" will be deleted from the project name because of the legal steps of Amiga Inc. against Hyperion."

#6

This doesn't make sense. How does Amiga Inc sueing Hyperion force AROS to change it's name? Since when does Hyperion have an active say in what AROS does? :confused:

But i know AROS changed its name from Amiga Research Operating System to Aros Research Operating System. Not sure how this is relevant to Hyperion though.
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: takemehomegrandma on April 25, 2011, 07:37:43 AM
Quote from: jorkany;633398
Evert Carton, one of two known managing partners at Hyperion, has stepped down and in fact claims to have completely abandoned the Amiga scene. Evert is best remembered for referring to AROS as "probably illegal".

http://amigaworld.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=5904&start=0

A sudden and public dissociation. This is important and interesting news. Could be a sign, I guess we'll know in a few months or so.
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: lsmart on April 25, 2011, 08:39:52 AM
Quote from: Kesa;633462
This doesn't make sense. How does Amiga Inc sueing Hyperion force AROS to change it's name?

The A in AROS used to stand for Amiga (acronym). If AInc. starts to sue for trademark, even if it is about an unrelated company, you´d better get out of the way if you can´t pay your lawyers to defend your name in court.

In fact if you go to morphos-team today, you will not find the name "Amiga" except for in "amigaguide.library"
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: cha05e90 on April 25, 2011, 09:14:53 AM
Quote from: lsmart;633476
In fact if you go to morphos-team today, you will not find the name "Amiga" except for in "amigaguide.library"

Yes, but if I browse through my MorphOS setup (startup's etc.) I'll find - of course - stuff like "Kickstart" or "Workbench" all over, which is needed for backwards compability. Both names are copyrighted, though. Same is/might be true for AROS. Does ReactOS have a "windows32.dll" (or similar)? :-)
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: itix on April 25, 2011, 09:21:34 AM
Quote from: billt;633459
Quote from: jorkany;633398
Evert is best remembered for referring to AROS as "probably illegal".

That's not what I know him for. I don't know if he did or did not say that, but I think that other things he'd done/said are far more memorable to me than your maybe AROS thing.


I recall that quote was in one of leaked emails in Amiga vs Hyperion trial.
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: Piru on April 25, 2011, 09:58:44 AM
Quote from: Fats;633449
As was BB IMO. Why can't we let this rest ?
Buck was unprofessional in numerous occasions as well.

Does that mean I cannot call the bull manure spewed about me?
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: Fats on April 25, 2011, 12:38:38 PM
Quote from: Piru;633482
Does that mean I cannot call the bull manure spewed about me?


If you don't mind of giving an unprofessional impression of you and MorphOS as well.

greets,
Staf.
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: Kesa on April 25, 2011, 01:00:02 PM
Quote from: Piru;633482
Buck was unprofessional in numerous occasions as well.

Does that mean I cannot call the bull manure spewed about me?

Please, not another open letter...
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: Franko on April 25, 2011, 01:23:58 PM
Who or what Evert Carton (odd name !!!) is or was and what he/she had to do with Hyperion, well I haven't the foggiest... :)

Should I care... Erm, No...
Do I care... Erm, No...

Did he/she really exist and actually do anything Amiga related, hmmm... who knows, who cares, why bother... :)

Only thing I know about Hyperion is they sold me a lump of jobbies called OS4.0 and that's about it, other than that have a nice day (or a bad one if you really want too)... ;)

(seeing as it's Easter I'm off to nail some poor sod to a cross... cooeee, old Mrs Johnstone...:D)
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: dammy on April 25, 2011, 02:16:39 PM
Quote from: Fats;633496
If you don't mind of giving an unprofessional impression of you and MorphOS as well.

greets,
Staf.


I would say he was spot on with that comment.  You still doing OS4 and AROS development?
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: Darrin on April 25, 2011, 02:23:13 PM
Quote from: Franko;633507
Who or what Evert Carton (odd name !!!)


Wasn't Evert Carton III the FBI bloke is Saturday's Doctor Who episode?
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: persia on April 25, 2011, 02:30:31 PM
Yeah, I think this thread serves no purpose.  This happens all the time in business partnerships, the company moves in a direction that one of the partners isn't interested in and they move on.  Hardly more than a "tempest in a teacup."  I'm a longtime Hyperion critic and I can't really find anything to criticise here.....
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: Piru on April 25, 2011, 02:51:50 PM
Quote from: Fats;633496
If you don't mind of giving an unprofessional impression of you and MorphOS as well.
I don't think I'm being unprofessional here (but I certainly have been on some occasions). Going on spreading misinformation and lies would be. Also I consider going to the bottom of things to be professional. Leaving some matter unsolved or dangling in the air is unprofessional. So I would really like to know how I have supposedly spammed OS4 threads in order to promote MorphOS.

BTW who is managing Hyperion now?
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: Kesa on April 25, 2011, 03:00:13 PM
Quote from: Piru;633518

BTW who is managing Hyperion now?

By saying this you are implying that someone at some stage was managing Hyperion. No seriously, monkeys could do a better job of managing Hyperion than it has previously been managed.
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: Karlos on April 25, 2011, 03:26:20 PM
Quote from: Franko;633507
Who or what Evert Carton (odd name !!!) is or was ...

This is what came to mind when I saw the name the first time:

Evert - transitive verb: overthrow, upset
(http://www.batzz.com/images/overthrow.jpg)

Carton - noun: a box or container usually made of cardboard and often of corrugated cardboard
(http://stevecotler.com/tales/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/egg-carton.jpg)
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: redfox on April 25, 2011, 03:31:40 PM
Evert provided more details.  See post #40 in the thread on AW.

http://amigaworld.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=5904&start=20#79313


-edit to get closer to the actual post-
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: Franko on April 25, 2011, 03:36:36 PM
Quote from: Karlos;633526
This is what came to mind when I saw the name the first time:

Evert - transitive verb: overthrow, upset
(http://www.batzz.com/images/overthrow.jpg)

Carton - noun: a box or container usually made of cardboard and often of corrugated cardboard
(http://stevecotler.com/tales/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/egg-carton.jpg)


Ahh... so "Evert Carton" really means "Overthrow the Eggbox"... :D

I'm all for that... never liked them Xbox thingies anyway... :)
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: takemehomegrandma on April 25, 2011, 03:50:10 PM
Eric Cartman:

(http://images2.fanpop.com/images/photos/2600000/Eric-Cartman-eric-cartman-2697329-320-240.jpg)

Quote from: Karlos;633526
This is what came to mind when I saw the name the first time:

Evert - transitive verb: overthrow, upset
(http://www.batzz.com/images/overthrow.jpg)

Carton - noun: a box or container usually made of cardboard and often of corrugated cardboard
(http://stevecotler.com/tales/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/egg-carton.jpg)
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: jorkany on April 25, 2011, 04:34:42 PM
Quote from: billt;633459
Quote from: jorkany;633398
Evert is best remembered for referring to AROS as "probably illegal".

That's not what I know him for. I don't know if he did or did not say that, but I think that other things he'd done/said are far more memorable to me than your maybe AROS thing.


Such as...?
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: jorkany on April 25, 2011, 04:37:03 PM
Quote from: Piru;633518

BTW who is managing Hyperion now?

Most likely Ben Hermans, but that is just a guess.
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: persia on April 25, 2011, 04:46:24 PM
Egg cartons!

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_q2O2ysbbWAo/SpbgJnsaCgI/AAAAAAAABJg/FbeEHHaFozk/s400/creative+and+funny+eggs+painting+17.jpg)
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: orb85750 on April 25, 2011, 05:31:06 PM
Who is this evert cartoon character?  Contributions to Amiga?
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: TheBilgeRat on April 25, 2011, 05:39:50 PM
Quote from: orb85750;633546
Who is this evert cartoon character?  Contributions to Amiga?

According to the usual crowd of conspiracy theorists, he is evidently the canary in the coalmine heralding the end of AInc, Hyperion et al.  Now the world will be free for MorphOS and CUSA to bring us gently into a new era of bliss and gratification.
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: vidarh on April 25, 2011, 06:08:03 PM
Quote from: cha05e90;633477
Yes, but if I browse through my MorphOS setup (startup's etc.) I'll find - of course - stuff like "Kickstart" or "Workbench" all over, which is needed for backwards compability. Both names are copyrighted, though. Same is/might be true for AROS. Does ReactOS have a "windows32.dll" (or similar)? :-)


You can't copyright a name. You can trademark it. However, trademarking a name does not prevent all use of it, just (in general terms) marketing usage and usage that might cause consumer confusion with the trademarked product.
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: Darrin on April 25, 2011, 06:51:22 PM
Quote from: redfox;633528
Evert provided more details.  See post #40 in the thread on AW.

http://amigaworld.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=5904&start=39


Well that was a big storm in a teacup.
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: Karlos on April 25, 2011, 07:17:31 PM
Quote from: Franko;633530
Ahh... so "Evert Carton" really means "Overthrow the Eggbox"... :D


Well, I understood it to mean "overthrow all cardboard packaging", but essentially, yes...
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: Franko on April 25, 2011, 08:16:02 PM
So let me get this right now... Everad Cartoon Maker The 3rd or whatever he/she/it or whats'is'name is has retarded from Hyperion for whom he/she/it/what worked for a wee while but never owned or used an Amiga or had any interest in the Amiga... :confused:

So what did Englbert Carboardboxpacker actually do at Hypreion ??? perhaps he/she/it/what was in charge of recycling packaging or summit, or maybe he/she/it/what was the Janitor or even the Janitors cat... :)

All I can figure out is he/she/it/what (and I mean Eglleburgle Candynosenoamiga) is now out of a job, wonder if he/she/it/what could get a job at "they who shall not be mentioned's" place doing nothing there as he/she/it/what may not have any interest in their products either and he/she/it/what could do the same type of work (or lack of it) that he/she/it/what did or never did at Hyperion... :)

That's my take on this sad little story anywhoo... :)

Now who fancies a cuppa n some shortbread... :)

PS: Does anyone have a spare spare that I could borrow, I seem to have misplaced mine somewhere... :D
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: jorkany on April 25, 2011, 08:22:13 PM
Quote from: Franko;633558
So let me get this right now... Everad Cartoon Maker The 3rd or whatever he/she/it or whats'is'name is has retarded from Hyperion for whom he/she/it/what worked for a wee while but never owned or used an Amiga or had any interest in the Amiga... :confused:

So what did Englbert Carboardboxpacker actually do at Hypreion ??? perhaps he/she/it/what was in charge of recycling packaging or summit, or maybe he/she/it/what was the Janitor or even the Janitors cat... :)

Evert was the sales manager for quite some time. Keep in mind that Hyperion was a game republishing company for a few years before they got involved with OS4.
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: Franko on April 25, 2011, 08:26:23 PM
Quote from: jorkany;633560
Evert was the sales manager for quite some time. Keep in mind that Hyperion was a game republishing company for a few years before they got involved with OS4.


and...

What's this got to do the price of lumbago in the darkest reaches of southern Peckham... :confused:

I'd never even heard of Evlin Cagagoogoo before this thread appeared, so what's all the fuss about is he/she/it/what gawd or something... :confused:
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: jorkany on April 25, 2011, 08:39:29 PM
Quote from: Franko;633561
and...

What's this got to do the price of lumbago in the darkest reaches of southern Peckham... :confused:

I'd never even heard of Evlin Cagagoogoo before this thread appeared, so what's all the fuss about is he/she/it/what gawd or something... :confused:

Because Evert represented somewhere from 25% - 50% of Hyperion. Also, he was a co-founder of Hyperion, the other founder being Ben Hermans.

It's also a little strange that he would decide to publicly announce he was leaving after having been pretty much out of the loop for the last few years. If most didn't know who he was and that he worked at Hyperion, then why even bring it up now?
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: Darrin on April 25, 2011, 08:57:49 PM
Quote from: jorkany;633562
Because Evert represented somewhere from 25% - 50% of Hyperion. Also, he was a co-founder of Hyperion, the other founder being Ben Hermans.

It's also a little strange that he would decide to publicly announce he was leaving after having been pretty much out of the loop for the last few years. If most didn't know who he was and that he worked at Hyperion, then why even bring it up now?


Why not bring it up?  The chap wanted to say "goodbye" and that's it.  I bet he wishes he hadn't bothered now.
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: Karlos on April 25, 2011, 09:37:48 PM
Quote from: Darrin;633564
Why not bring it up?  The chap wanted to say "goodbye" and that's it.  I bet he wishes he hadn't bothered now.


I have to admit, it seems folks are having a field day with this. I could understand it if it were the case that Hyperion Entertainment had turned round and said "so long and thanks for all the fish" but that's not what has happened. Well, at least not yet anyway though I'm sure some folk still live in hope.
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: Fats on April 25, 2011, 10:37:55 PM
Quote from: dammy;633514
You still doing OS4 and AROS development?


That and I am trying to get up to speed with MorphOS also. regina (http://www.morphzone.org/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=7711&forum=12) should be my first any-amiga project.

greets,
Staf.
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: Darrin on April 25, 2011, 11:45:47 PM
Quote from: Karlos;633570
I have to admit, it seems folks are having a field day with this. I could understand it if it were the case that Hyperion Entertainment had turned round and said "so long and thanks for all the fish" but that's not what has happened. Well, at least not yet anyway though I'm sure some folk still live in hope.


Yep, some have been adding 2 plus 2 to make 5 while others have come up with conspiracy theories that would make Oliver Stone shiver.  :D
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: Iggy on April 26, 2011, 01:13:47 AM
Quote from: Darrin;633578
Yep, some have been adding 2 plus 2 to make 5 while others have come up with conspiracy theories that would make Oliver Stone shiver.  :D

There's no real conspiracy here. Just a lot of BS. Bill MCEwen and Hyperion have managed to lay claim to ownership of AmigaOS and have many of you convinced that this is a valid claim.
As AmigaInc. licensed trademarks from Gateway, not intellectual property this claim is patently false.
Gateway clearly stated that they continued to own said properties.
Again, AInc is a licensee of trademarks NOT the owner of any of the intellectual properties involved in the original Amigas.

This is not a conspiracy, it is an act of fraud.
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: Kesa on April 26, 2011, 01:54:35 AM
Quote from: Iggy;633588
There's no real conspiracy here. Just a lot of BS. Bill MCEwen and Hyperion have managed to lay claim to ownership of AmigaOS and have many of you convinced that this is a valid claim.
As AmigaInc. licensed trademarks from Gateway, not intellectual property this claim is patently false.
Gateway clearly stated that they continued to own said properties.
Again, AInc is a licensee of trademarks NOT the owner of any of the intellectual properties involved in the original Amigas.

This is not a conspiracy, it is an act of fraud.

So if i understand this correctly AmigaInc don't actually own Amiga but Gateway does? So hypothetically if someone wanted to buy Amiga with everything included who would be the sellers? :confused:
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: Darrin on April 26, 2011, 02:29:52 AM
Quote from: Iggy;633588
There's no real conspiracy here. Just a lot of BS. Bill MCEwen and Hyperion have managed to lay claim to ownership of AmigaOS and have many of you convinced that this is a valid claim.
As AmigaInc. licensed trademarks from Gateway, not intellectual property this claim is patently false.
Gateway clearly stated that they continued to own said properties.
Again, AInc is a licensee of trademarks NOT the owner of any of the intellectual properties involved in the original Amigas.

This is not a conspiracy, it is an act of fraud.


So is there any reason why a certain Judge couldn't work this all out?  I mean, any other reason other than you being wrong that is?
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: Franko on April 26, 2011, 02:43:22 AM
Did they throw a retirement party for Everad Constantanople and did he/she/it/what get nice wee carriage clock or watch to remind he/she/it/what about all that time he/she/it/what will have now to do nothing until he/she/it/what kicks the bucket... :)
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: haywirepc on April 26, 2011, 03:05:05 AM
"There's no real conspiracy here. Just a lot of BS. Bill MCEwen and Hyperion have managed to lay claim to ownership of AmigaOS and have many of you convinced that this is a valid claim. As AmigaInc. licensed trademarks from Gateway, not intellectual property this claim is patently false. Gateway clearly stated that they continued to own said properties.
Again, AInc is a licensee of trademarks NOT the owner of any of the intellectual properties involved in the original Amigas."
 
This is one of the major reasons why anyone claiming to own amiga ip or amiga os especially is a flat out fraud. Gateway never released the ownership of amiga ip, simply liscenced its use to other parties.
 
This is why I say anyone who wants to distribute amiga os roms, or amiga os disks even, is free to do so. Gateway could care less.
 
Silly Billy and every other amiga grave robber would like you to think differently, but that is fraud, not real. They always play this game when someone asks them to prove ownership of amiga ip like "I won't prove I do own it, you prove I don't." Its ridiculous.
 
In regard to Evert, Good luck with all your future endeavors. Maybe he'll go back to Linux ports?

Steven
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: Iggy on April 26, 2011, 03:24:21 AM
Quote from: Darrin;633605
So is there any reason why a certain Judge couldn't work this all out?  I mean, any other reason other than you being wrong that is?

So Darrin, why do you think Amiga Inc. decided to forgo a judges decision and agree to a settlement with Hyperion?
Because it was mutually beneficial to both of them. Bill gets to continue to pretend that he owns something (granting licenses to something that he himself was only a licensee of).
And Hyperion solidifies its claim to the development of AOS by mutually agreeing that AInc. owns 3.1.

But where is the original transfer of that property to AInc?
Simple, it doesn't exist.
Prove me wrong.
You can't. Amiga Inc is a sham. It owns nothing. The only thing it could have acquired from past corporations is what Amino originally purchased, a license to use a trademark.
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: Iggy on April 26, 2011, 03:30:20 AM
Quote from: haywirepc;633614
"There's no real conspiracy here. Just a lot of BS. Bill MCEwen and Hyperion have managed to lay claim to ownership of AmigaOS and have many of you convinced that this is a valid claim. As AmigaInc. licensed trademarks from Gateway, not intellectual property this claim is patently false. Gateway clearly stated that they continued to own said properties.
Again, AInc is a licensee of trademarks NOT the owner of any of the intellectual properties involved in the original Amigas."
 
This is one of the major reasons why anyone claiming to own amiga ip or amiga os especially is a flat out fraud. Gateway never released the ownership of amiga ip, simply liscenced its use to other parties.
 
This is why I say anyone who wants to distribute amiga os roms, or amiga os disks even, is free to do so. Gateway could care less.
 
Silly Billy and every other amiga grave robber would like you to think differently, but that is fraud, not real. They always play this game when someone asks them to prove ownership of amiga ip like "I won't prove I do own it, you prove I don't." Its ridiculous.
 
In regard to Evert, Good luck with all your future endeavors. Maybe he'll go back to Linux ports?

Steven

Thanks Steven,
For once we agree on something. And you're absolutely right. No one currently using the Amiga name actually owns anything but the right to use a trademark, because the company that bought the assets originally did not transfer them. They merly made a few licensing agreements on the trademarks.
That's what Bill owns, a company callew Amiga Inc that can use that trademark.
I'm not even sure he's legally allowed to transfer that right.

And he certainly isn't going to show any of us the original documents.

Frankly, I consider Bill McEwen to be a corporate necrophiliac.
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: Darrin on April 26, 2011, 03:34:17 AM
Quote from: Iggy;633615
So Darrin, why do you think Amiga Inc. decided to forgo a judges decision and agree to a settlement with Hyperion?
Because it was mutually beneficial to both of them. Bill gets to continue to pretend that he owns something (granting licenses to something that he himself was only a licensee of).
And Hyperion solidifies its claim to the development of AOS by mutually agreeing that AInc. owns 3.1.

But where is the original transfer of that property to AInc?
Simple, it doesn't exist.
Prove me wrong.
You can't. Amiga Inc is a sham. It owns nothing. The only thing it could have acquired from past corporations is what Amino originally purchased, a license to use a trademark.


I have no idea and I don't have to prove anything.  I also think your opinions (which is all they are) hold any water.  If you're so right then why doesn't someone else just buy the rights from Gateway?
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: Franko on April 26, 2011, 03:36:37 AM
Hmmm... this thread was supposed to be about poor wee Everton Carbuncles retirement from he/her/its/whats job or whatever at Hyperactive... :confused:

So how did the subject get onto AmigaSTIncK and copymerights/IPees and all that malarky !!!

It's dark in here... I'm going to hard boil one of me chocolate easter eggs... now where did I leave those matches... :)
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: Iggy on April 26, 2011, 03:58:48 AM
Quote from: Franko;633620
Hmmm... this thread was supposed to be about poor wee Everton Carbuncles retirement from he/her/its/whats job or whatever at Hyperactive... :confused:

So how did the subject get onto AmigaSTIncK and copymerights/IPees and all that malarky !!!

It's dark in here... I'm going to hard boil one of me chocolate easter eggs... now where did I leave those matches... :)

You're absolutely right Franko. We're all supposed to be bidding a fond farewell to one of Hyperion's founders and original principal players.

I should leave this to another thread (or leave it entirely). It just upsets the faithful who keep thinking there's going to be some kind of resurrection.

I'm glad you've got the sense to know what an Amiga is (since you own a few).
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: Darrin on April 26, 2011, 04:23:16 AM
Quote from: Franko;633620
Hmmm... this thread was supposed to be about poor wee Everton Carbuncles retirement from he/her/its/whats job or whatever at Hyperactive... :confused:

So how did the subject get onto AmigaSTIncK and copymerights/IPees and all that malarky !!!

It's dark in here... I'm going to hard boil one of me chocolate easter eggs... now where did I leave those matches... :)


Sorry, back to the tribute to Eric Cantona...
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: Kesa on April 26, 2011, 04:37:56 AM
Quote from: Darrin;633623
Sorry, back to the tribute to Eric Cantona...

What's going on here? First you knew about the existence of Doctor Who and now you know about Eric Cantona? What gives? :confused:

I thought Americans knew the world inside and out, until they steped outside then they are as blind as a bat :roflmao:
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: Darrin on April 26, 2011, 05:00:00 AM
Quote from: Kesa;633626
What's going on here? First you knew about the existence of Doctor Who and now you know about Eric Cantona? What gives? :confused:

I thought Americans knew the world inside and out, until they steped outside then they are as blind as a bat :roflmao:


Oi!  I'm Welsh!  I just live in the USA.  :D

I'm not a real Cajun.  I still have all my teeth, I only have 10 toes and I don't regard family reunions as a chance to score with chicks.  :D
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: Kesa on April 26, 2011, 05:13:13 AM
Quote from: Darrin;633629
Oi!  I'm Welsh!  I just live in the USA.  :D

I'm not a real Cajun.  I still have all my teeth, I only have 10 toes and I don't regard family reunions as a chance to score with chicks.  :D

My grandfather was Welsh which probably means we are related :eek:
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: Darrin on April 26, 2011, 05:17:59 AM
Quote from: Kesa;633631
My grandfather was Welsh which probably means we are related :eek:


Do you find sheep attractive and regard mint sauce as a lubricant?  :p
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: Kesa on April 26, 2011, 05:29:21 AM
Quote from: Darrin;633633
Do you find sheep attractive and regard mint sauce as a lubricant?  :p

Yes i do! We truely are related! I don't believe it! :roflmao:

Oh hey, seeing we are family and all you want to borrow some of my girlfriends? Just remember once you take 10 you legally become a shepherd.
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: magnetic on April 26, 2011, 08:21:00 AM
Everet

Good luck in your future and thanks for the post!


btw what is it with you idiots hijacking threads?
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: number6 on April 26, 2011, 01:47:40 PM
Quote from: Iggy;633615
But where is the original transfer of that property to AInc?
Simple, it doesn't exist.
Prove me wrong.
You can't. Amiga Inc is a sham. It owns nothing. The only thing it could have acquired from past corporations is what Amino originally purchased, a license to use a trademark.



If Amino only purchased a license to use a trademark, then someone needs to correct the Gateway press release.

PC maker Gateway today sold Amiga's trademark and (etc.) (http://news.cnet.com/Gateway-unloads-Amiga-name/2100-1040_3-235099.html)

Apologies for further off-topic.

#6
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: haywirepc on April 26, 2011, 02:07:26 PM
"San Diego-based Gateway will retain ownership of all Amiga patents acquired when it purchased the bankrupt company. "
 
I think thats pretty clear, amino bought the name and amiga.com website, not the patents or ip.
 
Steven
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: Franko on April 26, 2011, 02:26:39 PM
Quote from: Darrin;633623
Sorry, back to the tribute to Eric Cantona...


Ooh... Ahh... Can...too...nah... :)

Poor we Erica all he/she/it/what wanted to do was say toodle pip on his/her/its/whats retirement and ends up being dragged though the dirt with AmigastINCk claptrap... :(

Never mind Ernie now you've retired you can pay even less attention to all this daft past history of Amiga stuff even lessely (Hmmm... lessely, is that a word !!!) now... :)

Happy retirement, Arnie and enjoy all the time you have left avoiding the mad/sad/bad world of Amiga forums and all of us still trapped in an infinite time loop... :D
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: Kesa on April 26, 2011, 02:35:49 PM
I'm eating pancakes!
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: Franko on April 26, 2011, 02:39:12 PM
Quote from: Kesa;633660
I'm eating pancakes!


Now that you mention it... we aint had any new recipes lately in the group... time for a new recipe and this time no nannas I don't like nannas... :D
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: broken on April 26, 2011, 02:57:39 PM
Quote from: haywirepc;633654
"San Diego-based Gateway will retain ownership of all Amiga patents acquired when it purchased the bankrupt company. "
 
I think thats pretty clear, amino bought the name and amiga.com website, not the patents or ip.
 
Steven


Wait, so Gateway still owns all the patents and intellectual property related to the Amiga? But Amiga, Inc just owns the "Amiga name" and website?

Fuckkkkk. Cause that means Acer now owns all the Amiga patents and ip since they own Gateway. My dreams of winning the lotto, buying out Amiga, Inc, kicking Bill McEwen to the curb and resurrecting the classic hardware/OS and actually give it back to the people just went down the drain.
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: dammy on April 26, 2011, 03:01:47 PM
Quote from: haywirepc;633654
"San Diego-based Gateway will retain ownership of all Amiga patents acquired when it purchased the bankrupt company. "
 
I think thats pretty clear, amino bought the name and amiga.com website, not the patents or ip.
 
Steven


The only thing Acer has is the hardware patents which the vast majority (if not all) have expired.  Trademarks, logos, copyrights went to Amiga Inc along with Amiga inventory.
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: nicholas on April 26, 2011, 03:09:10 PM
Quote from: dammy;633663
Trademarks, logos, copyrights went to Amiga Inc along with Amiga inventory.


Your evidence for this is????
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: bloodline on April 26, 2011, 03:16:51 PM
Quote from: broken;633662
Wait, so Gateway still owns all the patents and intellectual property related to the Amiga? But Amiga, Inc just owns the "Amiga name" and website?

Fuckkkkk. Cause that means Acer now owns all the Amiga patents and ip since they own Gateway. My dreams of winning the lotto, buying out Amiga, Inc, kicking Bill McEwen to the curb and resurrecting the classic hardware/OS and actually give it back to the people just went down the drain.
Amiga patents are worthless now. As Dammy has pointed out, most have expired or relate to dead technology.

Amiga patents are as relevant to the computer industry as Steam Engine patents are to the aviation industry :)
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: Iggy on April 26, 2011, 04:41:28 PM
Quote from: dammy;633663
The only thing Acer has is the hardware patents which the vast majority (if not all) have expired.  Trademarks, logos, copyrights went to Amiga Inc along with Amiga inventory.

Actually, the article while informative (sort of) still gives us no clear idea who owns the OS.
It clearly does not mention anything other than trademarks being transferred to Amino. and it only mentions patents as being retained by Gasteway.
This leaves the status of the OS as an unknown.
And, as I've mentioned before, Amiga Inc. has never produced any documentation proving they own the OS.


BTW - I too am sorry about the off topic comments (although they are more relevant than alternative uses for mint jelly).
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: dammy on April 26, 2011, 04:55:08 PM
Quote from: nicholas;633665
Your evidence for this is????


That was announced back when Amiga Inc bought (in adition, licenses for Amiga patents) Amiga from GW (now Acer). What was that, 11 years ago?
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: dammy on April 26, 2011, 05:00:25 PM
Quote from: Iggy;633686
Actually, the article while informative (sort of) still gives us no clear idea who owns the OS.
It clearly does not mention anything other than trademarks being transferred to Amino. and it only mentions patents as being retained by Gasteway.
This leaves the status of the OS as an unknown.
And, as I've mentioned before, Amiga Inc. has never produced any documentation proving they own the OS.


I doubt they would since that would be apart of their purchase and license agreement with Gateway.  I doubt they would make that public if they didn't have to.  OS 3.1 and earlier is AI's.  There would be zero reason for GW/Acer to want to keep it, it was badly outdated even then.
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: number6 on April 26, 2011, 05:06:30 PM
Quote from: Iggy;633686
Actually, the article while informative (sort of) still gives us no clear idea who owns the OS.
It clearly does not mention anything other than trademarks being transferred to Amino. and it only mentions patents as being retained by Gasteway.
This leaves the status of the OS as an unknown.
And, as I've mentioned before, Amiga Inc. has never produced any documentation proving they own the OS.




Although a matter of curiosity for most, they could/would not supply proof to developers who required that proof either.

Jens Schoenfeld is one example from April 2007:

"Bill McEwen, who hasn't been able to give any proof of ownership of the classic Amiga OS in the past 20 months, who wanted to send me contracts "by the end of the week" (that was in february),"

This is a pretty typical response btw.

Also there is a war going on between John Grzymala, Chief Financial Officer and Controller of Hakia, Inc . and also  acting on behalf of the Kouri Family Trust vs McEwen, and that should surely be obvious to all at this point, since Itec is the first secured creditor of Amiga Inc.
 
"Garry: Itec has been an investor in Amiga since the purchase of the assets from Gateway. It remains an investor today. Itec is also the Senior (first place) Secured Creditor of Amiga Inc."

That complicates the speculation, since even if you determine Amiga Inc. owns something, then you have to discover which entity within Amiga Inc. you are talking about.

Oh the irony of the Pluritas site (supposedly selling the AI assets) being listed by google as "compromised". They touched Amiga Inc., and compromise should be expected. Heh.

#6
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: Iggy on April 26, 2011, 05:20:22 PM
Quote from: number6;633693
Although a matter of curiosity for most, they could/would not supply proof to developers who required that proof either.

Jens Schoenfeld is one example from April 2007:

"Bill McEwen, who hasn't been able to give any proof of ownership of the classic Amiga OS in the past 20 months, who wanted to send me contracts "by the end of the week" (that was in february),"

This is a pretty typical response btw.

Also there is a war going on between John Grzymala, Chief Financial Officer and Controller of Hakia, Inc . and also  acting on behalf of the Kouri Family Trust vs McEwen, and that should surely be obvious to all at this point, since Itec is the first secured creditor of Amiga Inc.
 
"Garry: Itec has been an investor in Amiga since the purchase of the assets from Gateway. It remains an investor today. Itec is also the Senior (first place) Secured Creditor of Amiga Inc."

That complicates the speculation, since even if you determine Amiga Inc. owns something, then you have to discover which entity within Amiga Inc. you are talking about.

Oh the irony of the Pluritas site (supposedly selling the AI assets) being listed by google as "compromised". They touched Amiga Inc., and compromise should be expected. Heh.

#6

Thanks 6,
This tends to reinforce my doubts that AInc. actual owns the property. And as far as licenses for patents are concerned, the OS is not patented it is a property.

The patents are irrelevant as they have expired and AInc has never offered proof of the contention that they licensed these either.

And does anyone know what Pluritas is selling? The only asset I am 100% sure of (outside of the trademarks) is AmigaDE, and that is not a particularly valuable asset.
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: Franko on April 26, 2011, 05:38:33 PM
There's a very simple way to find out who actually own the rights to Amiga kickstart/OS etc...

Put the WorkBench disk images and the KickStart ROM image files up on a website for free download... :)

Then simply wait for whomever claims to own them to take the appropriate legal action and actually pursue it all the way to a court of law... :)

I've already done this and not once did I get a genuine complaint from anyone claiming to own the Kickstart ROM Images or WorkBench Disk Sets, the only complaints I got were from the dickhead copyright mafia on forums such as this screaming blue murder about piracy... :lol:

I'd personally bet my house on the fact that even if someone emerged from the shadows claiming to own the Copyright/IP on these things and they were challenged in a court of law that none of the claims would either be able to be proven nor have any legal basis on which to stand... ;)

Trouble is certain folks in Amigaland are nothing but a bunch of big fearties who cower like chickens when it comes to proving and putting an end to all this BS/ speculation & myths surrounding just who has a legal claim to what when it comes to the Amiga... :)
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: Speelgoedmannetje on April 26, 2011, 05:38:53 PM
Quote from: Franko;633530
Ahh... so "Evert Carton" really means "Overthrow the Eggbox"... :D

I'm all for that... never liked them Xbox thingies anyway... :)
Oh bunch of locals...
Evert is a Dutch name. It means Boar-heart (wild boars were the lions of pre-roman times, as these creatures were big and verocious)
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: Franko on April 26, 2011, 05:44:03 PM
Quote from: Speelgoedmannetje;633701
Oh bunch of locals...
Evert is a Dutch name. It means Boar-heart (wild boars were the lions of pre-roman times, as these creatures were big and verocious)

Ahh... So Fatancienthornedhairypig Carboardboxmaker is in fact the actual person/thing who/what has retarded from Hyperactivesugarplumfairy... :)

(It's all doubledutch too me... ;))

(ooohhh... I've just nicked Iggy's medal... :D)
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: Iggy on April 26, 2011, 06:04:21 PM
Quote from: Franko;633700
There's a very simple way to find out who actually own the rights to Amiga kickstart/OS etc...

Put the WorkBench disk images and the KickStart ROM image files up on a website for free download... :)

Then simply wait for whomever claims to own them to take the appropriate legal action and actually pursue it all the way to a court of law... :)

I've already done this and not once did I get a genuine complaint from anyone claiming to own the Kickstart ROM Images or WorkBench Disk Sets, the only complaints I got were from the dickhead copyright mafia on forums such as this screaming blue murder about piracy... :lol:

I'd personally bet my house on the fact that even if someone emerged from the shadows claiming to own the Copyright/IP on these things and they were challenged in a court of law that none of the claims would either be able to be proven nor have any legal basis on which to stand... ;)

Trouble is certain folks in Amigaland are nothing but a bunch of big fearties who cower like chickens when it comes to proving and putting an end to all this BS/ speculation & myths surrounding just who has a legal claim to what when it comes to the Amiga... :)

Brilliant idea Franko.
It would require someone willing to stand up to a legal challenge, but it could help resolve this matter.
This idea deserves a thread of its own, possibly sticky.

Moved further posts to:
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?p=633719#post633719
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: number6 on April 26, 2011, 06:07:16 PM
Quote from: Iggy;633696
Thanks 6,
This tends to reinforce my doubts that AInc. actual owns the property. And as far as licenses for patents are concerned, the OS is not patented it is a property.

The patents are irrelevant as they have expired and AInc has never offered proof of the contention that they licensed these either.

And does anyone know what Pluritas is selling? The only asset I am 100% sure of (outside of the trademarks) is AmigaDE, and that is not a particularly valuable asset.



Looking at the original press release, one could conclude that is the one item they intended to keep working on.

"Amiga Inc., who is also actively seeking investment capital to fund the ongoing development of their enabling technologies"

Source (http://www.benzinga.com/press-releases/10/11/b566868/pluritas-engaged-by-amiga-inc-to-market-the-global-ip-rights-to-the-ico)

If that's the case, then at the time they surely thought they had more to sell than that, imo.

btw, I would be shocked if you could contact Pluritas and just get your answer as to what is offered.
More likely you would be asked to supply a lot of information first.

#6
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: runequester on April 26, 2011, 06:10:05 PM
Quote from: number6;633711
Looking at the original press release, one could conclude that is the one item they intended to keep working on.

"Amiga Inc., who is also actively seeking investment capital to fund the ongoing development of their enabling technologies"

Source (http://www.benzinga.com/press-releases/10/11/b566868/pluritas-engaged-by-amiga-inc-to-market-the-global-ip-rights-to-the-ico)

If that's the case, then at the time they surely thought they had more to sell than that, imo.

btw, I would be shocked if you could contact Pluritas and just get your answer as to what is offered.
More likely you would be asked to supply a lot of information first.

#6


It seems amiga inc hasn't been averse to some debt dodging in the past, so who knows.

Of course, there may also be a disconnect between what they think they own, and what they actually do own. As long as nobody challenges them on it, (and who would?) all is peachy for them.
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: nicholas on April 26, 2011, 06:11:50 PM
Quote from: dammy;633690
That was announced back when Amiga Inc bought (in adition, licenses for Amiga patents) Amiga from GW (now Acer). What was that, 11 years ago?


No, what was announced was that Amino were granted a licence by Gateway to use the trademarks.

I look forward to the cease and desist letters Commodore   Amiga (Iran) will no doubt receive from Amino when they finally get around to hosting all variants of the Kickstart and Workbench for free download.......
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: Franko on April 26, 2011, 06:15:19 PM
Quote from: Iggy;633707
Brilliant idea Franko.
It would require someone willing to stand up to a legal challenge, but it could help resolve this matter.
This idea deserves a thread of its own, possibly sticky.


I'm up for it... ;)

Never had anyone (including the British Government) that has challenged me on something "legal" and who didn't back down before it went to court cos they knew they didn't have a leg to stand on... :)

Trouble is for such a thing to get noticed properly you need the copyright mafia to stop their pathetic whining and demand that any links to my site be removed cos it may damage Amiga.org... :(

It needs as much exposure as possible for anyone who thinks they can genuinely claim to own these rights to notice it and take the appropriate action if they think they can prove it legally... :)

It's the whiners/ know alls and crapbags that need to keep their gobs shut and then maybe, just maybe the good folks of Amigaland can put an end to all this nonsense once and for all... :)
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: number6 on April 26, 2011, 06:24:42 PM
Quote from: runequester;633712
It seems amiga inc hasn't been averse to some debt dodging in the past, so who knows.

Of course, there may also be a disconnect between what they think they own, and what they actually do own. As long as nobody challenges them on it, (and who would?) all is peachy for them.



You said a mouthful. Hence the war I mentioned. Not all parties who were a part of Amiga Inc. will see things the same way. You can bank on that.

Debts? I don't get involved in that, save where it concerns all the unpaid developers, who have been raped repeatedly by this bunch. Developers are often a mild mannered group of people in general and avoid the public fora to state how they have been treated over the years.
Although I've received hints at times to stop defending them, I see no valid reason why I should...
I'm not just talking about Bolton here. There is quite an extensive list.
I'm not content to accept the constant argument that what was done was legal and therefore there is no moral obligation in place that holds any water vs that.
And yeah, I've heard the argument about them knowing what they were getting themselves into as well. Irrelevant.

#6
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: runequester on April 26, 2011, 06:34:26 PM
Quote from: number6;633717
You said a mouthful. Hence the war I mentioned. Not all parties who were a part of Amiga Inc. will see things the same way. You can bank on that.

Debts? I don't get involved in that, save where it concerns all the unpaid developers, who have been raped repeatedly by this bunch. Developers are often a mild mannered group of people in general and avoid the public fora to state how they have been treated over the years.
Although I've received hints at times to stop defending them, I see no valid reason why I should...
I'm not just talking about Bolton here. There is quite an extensive list.
I'm not content to accept the constant argument that what was done was legal and therefore there is no moral obligation in place that holds any water vs that.
And yeah, I've heard the argument about them knowing what they were getting themselves into as well. Irrelevant.

#6


I completely agree with you.
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: Iggy on April 26, 2011, 06:38:50 PM
Quote from: Franko;633714
I'm up for it... ;)

Never had anyone (including the British Government) that has challenged me on something "legal" and who didn't back down before it went to court cos they knew they didn't have a leg to stand on... :)

Trouble is for such a thing to get noticed properly you need the copyright mafia to stop their pathetic whining and demand that any links to my site be removed cos it may damage Amiga.org... :(

It needs as much exposure as possible for anyone who thinks they can genuinely claim to own these rights to notice it and take the appropriate action if they think they can prove it legally... :)

It's the whiners/ know alls and crapbags that need to keep their gobs shut and then maybe, just maybe the good folks of Amigaland can put an end to all this nonsense once and for all... :)

Please consider it.
While I wholly back Hyperion's right to market AOS4, I'm beginning to believe that previous versions of AmigaOS may not have a valid owner.
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: mongo on April 26, 2011, 08:28:50 PM
Quote from: Iggy;633721
Please consider it.
While I wholly back Hyperion's right to market AOS4, I'm beginning to believe that previous versions of AmigaOS may not have a valid owner.


That is not possible. People might dispute who owns it, but the fact is that somebody owns it.
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: Franko on April 26, 2011, 08:39:05 PM
Quote from: mongo;633752
That is not possible. People might dispute who owns it, but the fact is that somebody owns it.


Yeah... but that's the question we all want answered "Who does own what ???"... ;)

Of course with all the grey/ shady and murky dealings over the years it may actually be proven in a court of law that "no-one" can actually now claim full rights on any of it after the whole shambles and "grey" dealings that have gone on over the years... :)

Myself I really couldn't care less about folk making such stuff free to download until someone steps forward and proves to the world that they actually own it, until that day then most likely these debates will continue as nothing more than speculation and rumours that for some odd reason we here in Amigaland seem to love so much... :)

As I've said simply make the stuff available on enough websites and see if anyone steps forward to challenge it, and forget about USA laws that may be upcoming, USA law does not apply to the rest of the planet as some would have you believe... ;)
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: nicholas on April 26, 2011, 08:52:32 PM
Quote from: Franko;633755
Yeah... but that's the question we all want answered "Who does own what ???"... ;)

Of course with all the grey/ shady and murky dealings over the years it may actually be proven in a court of law that "no-one" can actually now claim full rights on any of it after the whole shambles and "grey" dealings that have gone on over the years... :)

Myself I really couldn't care less about folk making such stuff free to download until someone steps forward and proves to the world that they actually own it, until that day then most likely these debates will continue as nothing more than speculation and rumours that for some odd reason we here in Amigaland seem to love so much... :)

As I've said simply make the stuff available on enough websites and see if anyone steps forward to challenge it, and forget about USA laws that may be upcoming, USA law does not apply to the rest of the planet as some would have you believe... ;)


Marg bar Amrika! ;)
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: Franko on April 26, 2011, 09:03:00 PM
Quote from: nicholas;633759
Marg bar Amrika! ;)


Hmm... all those translator thingies on the web and all they come up with is "Marg bar Amrika" ... Ruddy useless... :(
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: B00tDisk on April 26, 2011, 09:17:09 PM
There's a fine line between who the IP belongs to and whom fanatics feverently hope it belongs to (or wish it belongs to or believe it belongs to).  Who owns AmigaOS?  I myself don't give a fig; it isn't like we're talking about the sources to Windows 7 or a videotape copy of The Day the Clown Cried.  Odds are there's something locked up in a filing cabinet somewhere in the offices occupied by whomever succeeded Gateway (Acer, was it?) and nearly 20 years down the pike with no substantive improvements over the C= produced OS (the PD bundles of 3.5 and 3.9 aside...) they likely don't care.
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: trekiej on April 26, 2011, 09:28:38 PM
please stay
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: Iggy on April 26, 2011, 09:35:28 PM
Quote from: mongo;633752
That is not possible. People might dispute who owns it, but the fact is that somebody owns it.

An interesting point. Are the ownership rights to a piece of software perpetual? And can software owned by a defunct company be transferred legally without consideration of any debts the company may carry?


Quote from: B00tDisk;633770
There's a fine line between who the IP belongs to and whom fanatics feverently hope it belongs to (or wish it belongs to or believe it belongs to).  Who owns AmigaOS?  I myself don't give a fig; it isn't like we're talking about the sources to Windows 7 or a videotape copy of The Day the Clown Cried.  Odds are there's something locked up in a filing cabinet somewhere in the offices occupied by whomever succeeded Gateway (Acer, was it?) and nearly 20 years down the pike with no substantive improvements over the C= produced OS (the PD bundles of 3.5 and 3.9 aside...) they likely don't care.

Acer may or may not have documentation. If the patents are no longer valid and AOS was never properly acquired by Escom or Gateway then it doesn't really matter.
I doubt Acer wants any part of this controversy.
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: mongo on April 26, 2011, 09:38:04 PM
Quote from: Iggy;633776
An interesting point. Are the ownership rights to a piece of software perpetual? And can software owned by a defunct company be transferred legally without consideration of any debts the company may carry?


Do you understand how bankruptcy works?
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: Iggy on April 26, 2011, 10:12:13 PM
Quote from: mongo;633777
Do you understand how bankruptcy works?

Far better then most people. And once a company's assets are liqidated and all debts are discharged they cease  to exist.
Therefore, if is not possible for a former official to sign a valid contract transferring intellectual property two years after bankruptcy.
Such an act would constitute fraud.
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: runequester on April 26, 2011, 10:21:35 PM
Quote from: Iggy;633788
Far better then most people. And once a company's assets are liqidated and all debts are discharged they cease  to exist.
Therefore, if is not possible for a former official to sign a valid contract transferring intellectual property two years after bankruptcy.
Such an act would constitute fraud.


In amiga circles, I believe "fraud" is usually phrased as "marketing strategy"
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: mongo on April 26, 2011, 10:47:15 PM
Quote from: Iggy;633788
Far better then most people. And once a company's assets are liqidated and all debts are discharged they cease  to exist.
Therefore, if is not possible for a former official to sign a valid contract transferring intellectual property two years after bankruptcy.
Such an act would constitute fraud.


The contracts were signed to correct an oversight that occurred during the original transfer of assets.
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: runequester on April 26, 2011, 10:57:22 PM
https://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0BxlY9g_OfLqDMTk5M2VhZTAtMTEwZi00YTUzLWFkZDEtMTg0ODNkYTQ1ZWYw&hl=en

That document was a trademark assignment. Totally different from copyrights.
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: Franko on April 26, 2011, 11:01:29 PM
Poor wee Evarad, all he wanted to do was retire quietly and he end up in crossfire of Copyright Wars part 1006... :(

Think you'd better come out of retirement and say something Englebert... :D
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: Iggy on April 27, 2011, 12:00:50 AM
Quote from: runequester;633791
In amiga circles, I believe "fraud" is usually phrased as "marketing strategy"

Ha! At least we all have our sense of humor!

Quote from: mongo;633799
The contracts were signed to correct an oversight that occurred during the original transfer of assets.

Three years after the principal party (which was not a part of these contracts) was dissolved.
Interesting concept.
But still not valid.
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: amigadave on April 27, 2011, 04:37:28 AM
Iggy,

You are making a lot of statements about what is and is not "valid", or what constitutes "fraud" and such, what are you going to do about it?  Are you so sure about your claims that you are willing to do anything about it, or are you just stirring the pot and trying to get a rise out of some people (in response to the allegations that were made about the legality of MorphOS)?

As you know, I am an avid MorphOS supporter, but I can't see anything good coming out of your statements and assumptions that you are stating as facts.  Prove your statements in court, or think again about what your motives are for this thread and also think about what outcome you expect to happen by starting threads like this one.

I support you on many other ideas and threads, but not this one.
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: kolla on April 27, 2011, 08:34:39 AM
Quote from: Fats;633496
If you don't mind of giving an unprofessional impression of you and MorphOS as well.


Well, duh - who ever claimed MorphOS to be a professional project? Sheesh.
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: Duce on April 27, 2011, 08:35:55 AM
God Bless you, Emeril Cartoon, you'll be missed.
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: kolla on April 27, 2011, 11:50:18 AM
Quote from: bloodline;633667
Amiga patents are as relevant to the computer industry as Steam Engine patents are to the aviation industry :)


That's kinda funny, considering how air planes are catapulted from air craft carriers using steam engines, and they for sure have lots of patents attached.
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: bloodline on April 27, 2011, 11:56:58 AM
Quote from: kolla;633878
That's kinda funny, considering how air planes are catapulted from air craft carriers using steam engines, and they for sure have lots of patents attached.
My point wasn't that steam technology was totally irrelevant to the aviation industry, only that most patents relating to steam technology expired years ago or covers things that have been superseded :)
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: dammy on April 27, 2011, 01:49:13 PM
Quote from: kolla;633878
That's kinda funny, considering how air planes are catapulted from air craft carriers using steam engines, and they for sure have lots of patents attached.


New US built aircraft carriers have the old steam cats replaced with something more modern: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_Aircraft_Launch_System
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: WolfToTheMoon on April 27, 2011, 01:55:03 PM
Quote from: dammy;633893
New US built aircraft carriers have the old steam cats replaced with something more modern: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_Aircraft_Launch_System


The first cats were hydraulic, some even had counterweights to launch (very light)planes.

The Brits were the smartest(Sea Harrier). Too bad they associated themselves into the crazy world of Lockheed Martin and F-35(JSF) project, Harrier still had(has) place to grow.
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: Iggy on April 27, 2011, 04:16:08 PM
Quote from: amigadave;633842
Iggy,

You are making a lot of statements about what is and is not "valid", or what constitutes "fraud" and such, what are you going to do about it?  Are you so sure about your claims that you are willing to do anything about it, or are you just stirring the pot and trying to get a rise out of some people (in response to the allegations that were made about the legality of MorphOS)?

As you know, I am an avid MorphOS supporter, but I can't see anything good coming out of your statements and assumptions that you are stating as facts.  Prove your statements in court, or think again about what your motives are for this thread and also think about what outcome you expect to happen by starting threads like this one.

I support you on many other ideas and threads, but not this one.

I'm sorry for dredging this whole matter up again David.
But I don't see this as speculative, more as unaddressed facts.
I would love to see it challenged in a court, but it never will be because no one would stand to profit from a real examination of these issues.
I wouldn't mind being the object of a libel or slander suit just to bring this matter to a court.
And I shouldn't bring MorphOS into this matter, but Dave Haynie's recent comments give us an interesting insight into the minds of those that support the "real" Amiga OS.

And I understand your concern. In the past I've always voiced support for all NG OS'. It was not my intention to increase the level of animosity between red and blue camps. Rather, I just wanted to point out that the validity of the "real" Amiga market was less credible then our own.
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: J-Golden on April 27, 2011, 05:06:58 PM
Even after this thread being up for days, I still read it as, "Every Cartoon leaves Hyperion" which STILL makes me laugh. I need serious psych help...:roflmao:

PS-  Just started using Chrome.  It is so much faster then Exploer even the smiley anims move faster!!!:laughing:
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: Iggy on April 27, 2011, 09:46:42 PM
Quote from: J-Golden;633932
Even after this thread being up for days, I still read it as, "Every Cartoon leaves Hyperion" which STILL makes me laugh. I need serious psych help...:roflmao:

PS-  Just started using Chrome.  It is so much faster then Exploer even the smiley anims move faster!!!:laughing:

Thanks! That is funny. And I've already got psych help (for all the good it does).
Oh, and I apologize for turning Evert's retirement thread into a diatribe about IP rights.
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: TheBilgeRat on April 28, 2011, 01:10:39 AM
Quote from: WolfToTheMoon;633894
The first cats were hydraulic, some even had counterweights to launch (very light)planes.

The Brits were the smartest(Sea Harrier). Too bad they associated themselves into the crazy world of Lockheed Martin and F-35(JSF) project, Harrier still had(has) place to grow.

Well, they always build interceptors and multi-use craft to counter threats that no other power besides China could field :lol:

Stealth?  OK, fine - works great for knocking out anti-aircraft installations...but then again, so does a cruise missile.  As for the US Navy, all they need for a battle group interceptor is a plane that can load up as many pershing missiles as possible.

er..sorry bout that.  /ramble off.
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: runequester on April 28, 2011, 01:45:56 AM
Quote from: TheBilgeRat;634025
Well, they always build interceptors and multi-use craft to counter threats that no other power besides China could field :lol:

Stealth?  OK, fine - works great for knocking out anti-aircraft installations...but then again, so does a cruise missile.  As for the US Navy, all they need for a battle group interceptor is a plane that can load up as many pershing missiles as possible.

er..sorry bout that.  /ramble off.


as it turns out stealth isnt a huge difference when the opposition is a bunch of goat herders
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: adonay on April 28, 2011, 04:00:32 AM
Quote from: Piru;633446
Care to back that claim up somehow?

I have expressed my critical opinion of OS4 (and other) hardware on several occasions but I don't think that qualifies as "spamming in a blatant attempt at promoting his own product". If you care to challenge any of the arguments I've presented in those threads, please do so.

Hyperion representatives on the other hand have been highly unprofessional on numerous occasions, the worst offender being Ben Hermans: http://www.biclodon.com/misc/amigafarm/benhermans/. Mr Evert is of course famous for this unfortunate and misguided comment of AROS being "probably illegal".


You are becoming more and more a morph troll Piru . Every time i go in here i see your negative toned comments or critics towards os4\hyperion or one of the companies that makes or develop boards for os4. Or even better posting some troll bate thread like the paper mobo one.
Title: Re: Evert Carton leaves Hyperion
Post by: TheBilgeRat on April 28, 2011, 04:55:54 AM
Quote from: runequester;634036
as it turns out stealth isnt a huge difference when the opposition is a bunch of goat herders

Well, there's goat herders, then there's (CIA trained stinger missile armed) goat herders :D