Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: Piru on April 20, 2011, 11:33:45 PM
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Hello Dave,
You have more than once claimed that the MorphOS Team has stolen AmigaOS source code. The latest incident happened (http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=33564&forum=25&start=280&viewmode=flat&order=0#610670) on amigaworld.net: "We didn't steal a single line of code from AmigaOS… The MorphOS people did not not-do any of those things."
I'd like you to put up and present your evidence to the public. If this is not possible please send such evidence to my email address at sintonen@iki.fi for my review, and acknowledge sending it in public.
Alternatively you can of course retract your claims. An apology wouldn't hurt either.
Best Regards,
Harry Sintonen
Member of the MorphOS Team
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And the reason you are posting this bait here and not posting at the forum the comment was made is?
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And the reason you are posting this bait here and not posting at the forum the comment was made is?
...that Itix already did that.
source (http://www.amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=33564&forum=25&start=300&viewmode=flat&order=0#610721)
#6
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Hmmm... odd thread... it's well know in Amigaland that everything has at one point in time been erm... borrowed shall we say... :)
(Why change the habit's of an Amiga Lifetime... :D)
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Hello Dave,
You have more than once claimed that the MorphOS Team has stolen AmigaOS source code. The latest incident happened (http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=33564&forum=25&start=280&viewmode=flat&order=0#610670) on amigaworld.net: "We didn't steal a single line of code from AmigaOS… The MorphOS people did not not-do any of those things."
I'd like you to put up and present your evidence to the public. If this is not possible please send such evidence to my email address at sintonen@iki.fi for my review, and acknowledge sending it in public.
Alternatively you can of course retract your claims. An apology wouldn't hurt either.
Best Regards,
Harry Sintonen
Member of the MorphOS Team
Harry,
Much as I respect you and your work on MorphOS, this kind of thing is just a waste of time. Let's not piss off one of the few Amiga legends who still bothers to maintain an interest in Amiga developments.
Let's just delete this thread shall we?
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Oh, ffs...
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Harry,
Much as I respect you and your work on MorphOS, this kind of thing is just a waste of time. Let's not piss off one of the few Amiga legends who still bothers to maintain an interest in Amiga developments.
Let's just delete this thread shall we?
Well if anyone is making claims about something, the person, company, or group accused should be able to see the evidence against them. I am speaking generally here.
The phrase in English is "Put up or Shut Up".
Personally I would like to think that these kinds of "wars" are behind us and that we are free to go our own ways and choose our own operating systems without accusation, trolling, or flaming. In this case it was Mr. Haynie bringing up these old accusations. Why it matters anymore is beyond me. History is History and none of us can change it.
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Rumors abound in amiga land.
I agree that if your going to make serious accusations like that, you should present evidence.
I've heard this rumor myself many times, but then I've also heard that they used an awful lot of aros source code.
If they are using aros source code then closing their own source and charging for the resulting product, I find a bigger problem with that.
Of crouse, I don't have evidence of morphos taking either os3.x or aros source code to use in their os, this is just some of the things people have said over the years.
Steven
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PIru
I agree with you. If Dave is making comments like this he should apologize. I think he's just echoing what alot of the us old skool amiga guys said years ago..
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Oh shoot. By the title, I thought this was going to be a plea for Dave to take the Amiga reins and lead us into a brighter and unfragmented future.
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Rumors abound in amiga land.
I agree that if your going to make serious accusations like that, you should present evidence.
I've heard this rumor myself many times, but then I've also heard that they used an awful lot of aros source code.
If they are using aros source code then closing their own source and charging for the resulting product, I find a bigger problem with that.
Of crouse, I don't have evidence of morphos taking either os3.x or aros source code to use in their os, this is just some of the things people have said over the years.
Steven
http://www.morphos-team.net/team.html
Morphos has openly used AROS code and as far as I know has always been in compliance with any relevant licenses and has contributed bug fixes back to AROS.
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honestly Piru, I think the only thing this thread will do is cause viewers to buy flame proof clothes.
I'm sure you've heard the saying "opinions are like aholes...everyones got one"
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It's a laughable claim and it's wrong for people to keep making it, no matter who they are. This claim was first made by Ben Hermans a decade ago. If there were any evidence you can be sure it would have surfaced by now. The fact that it hasn't speaks volumes.
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Harry,
Much as I respect you and your work on MorphOS, this kind of thing is just a waste of time. Let's not piss off one of the few Amiga legends who still bothers to maintain an interest in Amiga developments.
Let's not piss someone.. its HIM who has the right to be pissed. Only god knows how much Piru has spent time on MorphOS, and the last thing he need is someone telling around he and his team have stolen code.
On a sidenote, seriously, just take a look at the memberlist of MorphOS-team.. does someone really think they even NEED to steal anything and not do it themselves?
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I'm with Dave. It is not all too untrue claim. There is just not point in arguing it at this point. Your Ego needs a tougher skin.
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Argo
once again what are you basing it on? This is beyond stupid now.
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Yup, this argument is pretty much past its time.
Based on comments on ANN.lu 12 years ago by Ralph.
Since then Morphos has gone through at least one rewrite and has shared code in it from AROS. Not to mention it has been 12 years. I doubt much if anything is left of the code from that time. Morphos' codebase is closed source anyway. As is all of the versions of AmigaOS. Impossible to prove anything.
Not to mention, What is the point? A reason to hate/dislike/jab at Morphos? Some people would just do that anyway. It's NOT AmigaOS is reason enough for some. So, let it roll like water off a ducks back.
I've got nothing else to say, nor reason to see this topic continue.
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Oh shoot. By the title, I thought this was going to be a plea for Dave to take the Amiga reins and lead us into a brighter and unfragmented future.
Seriously. For F's sake. :(
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Let's just delete this thread shall we?
+1
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Someone delete the silly thread please.
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Yup, this argument is pretty much past its time.
Based on comments on ANN.lu 12 years ago by Ralph.
You mean the ones in which he explains where all the modules in the OS come from? (it's all here: http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/morphoscritics.html)
Since then Morphos has gone through at least one rewrite.
Has it, really? Gee, I cannot see that in my CVS logs. But obviously you must know better.
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Someone delete the silly thread please.
Why would you deny anyone the right to defend from silly accusations made by liars?
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Quite frankly, the whole thread makes all involved parties look like dickheads. Why not take it to email rather than drag up a thread from 2004 to here cause a guy stated his opinion? Same old shit, the Amiga scene drops back into the old "9 year old girls swinging their purses at each other" deal.
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... scene drops back into the old "9 year old girls swinging their purses at each other" deal.
That sounds alright to me. But maybe i will swap the 9 year olds to 19 year olds :)
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I've also heard that they used an awful lot of aros source code.
If they are using aros source code then closing their own source and charging for the resulting product, I find a bigger problem with that.
AROS Public License clearly allows that. Furthermore the MorphOS Team has contributed their changes back to AROS. Also, we clearly indicate the origin of the AROS parts in the Docs/Licenses.txt, relevant parts quoted here:
Many components are fully, or partially under the AROS Public License,
these should be identifiable through the notice in their version-info,
some of those are also embedded in the boot.img, and are mentioned here
for convenience:
dos.library
gadtools.library
intuition.library
We also use various other components under other licenses. The licenses include: GPL, LGPL, FTL, BSD, TrueCrypt License Version 2.6 and some custom licenses.
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Piru is well within his rights to demand an explanation. Legend or not, Dave Haynie is out of line.
I feel the same way about Wayne Hunt. Legend or not, he has a lot to answer for lately.
Being a legend will only get you so far.
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Why not take it to email
What is his email then? I tried to find it, but could not. If you know it, please PM me or email it to sintonen@iki.fi.
rather than drag up a thread from 2004
He made the accusation couple of days ago.
to here cause a guy stated his opinion
So if I claim you stole my car it's just an opinion?
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oh my god, not again.. will these amigaos/morphos wars never end? its a shame, i really like morphos and i like amigaos and i also like aros. come on people, everybody should get a nice cold beer and drink together!!
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come on people, everybody should get a nice cold beer and drink together!!
I know Dave likes a cold one. It's unfortunate he is making these accusations he's not willing to back up.
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Let's not piss off one of the few Amiga legends who still bothers to maintain an interest in Amiga developments.
From my perspective it rather looks like a besserwisser kind of snide remarks from the side of the court. Also I have much more respect on the software guys than him.
Of course everyone is entitled to have an opinion, there's nothing wrong with that. What I dislike is making wild accusations of theft one is not willing to back up.
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Someone delete the silly thread please.
This thread is not going anywhere, it's not breaking the TOS nor is it offending towards anyone in any way. All I want is to have the evidence of the supposed wrongdoing brought to public. Or the claims retracted.
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Is Dave Haynie even a member on Amiga.org? How is he going to see this thread anyway?
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Is Dave Haynie even a member on Amiga.org? How is he going to see this thread anyway?
It was pointed out that the letter was linked in the aw.net thread. Also, Dave has now responded it seems. I'm still not happy with it however. He is still repeating the old heresay (someone once saw some comments in some unrelated code).
He has no basis for his claims. MorphOS does not, and never has contained any content from AmigaOS, code, comments, documents, graphics, fonts, sounds or otherwise.
Also, I'd like to add that US laws (thankfully) don't apply globally. In sane parts of the world reverse engineering for the purposes of interoperability is allowed.
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And the reason you are posting this bait here and not posting at the forum the comment was made is?
-=Moderated=-
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the reason you are posting this here and not posting at the forum the comment was made is?
I do not have an account on aw.net, nor was I willing to create one just for this (and I'm not particularily fond of aw.net in general, although it has gotten much more sensible lately). I do not know Dave's email address either.
By the time I posted here he hadn't responded yet.
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I'm not sure that dragging this crap onto A.org was the right thing to do. If it meant that much to you, you should have replied at the source. Not here.
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I do not have an account on aw.net, nor was I willing to create one just for this (and I'm not particularily fond of aw.net in general, although it has gotten much more sensible lately)..
Coincidentally since you left. ;)
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If I had worked as hard on something as Piru and the rest of the MorphOS devs, and someone, no matter their god like status with some, started dragging up these old accusations without any evidence,then I would be really really pissed.
I see nothing wrong with wanting answers, and Yes he does have an account on here HazyDave.
It Defo is about time he actuallyput up or shut up as somone else said.
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If I had worked as hard on something as Piru and the rest of the MorphOS devs, and someone, no matter their god like status with some, started dragging up these old accusations without any evidence,then I would be really really pissed.
I see nothing wrong with wanting answers, and Yes he does have an account on here HazyDave.
It Defo is about time he actuallyput up or shut up as somone else said.
I couldn't agree more.
After reading Dave's recent personal insults to the MorphOS developers in Amiga Future magazine along with this recent comment on AW, I have no respect for the man at all.
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I see nothing wrong with wanting answers, and Yes he does have an account on here HazyDave.
I didn't realize Dave Haynie was HazyDave. Cheers!
I thought the guy was cool. I mean, he's got a guitar in his avatar. How cool is that? :cool:
P.S. Someone quote me i want to say hi to nicholas.
Hi nicholas! How are you doing? It's beem so long, we need to catch up :)
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I didn't realize Dave Haynie was HazyDave. Cheers!
I thought the guy was cool. I mean, he's got a guitar in his avatar. How cool is that? :cool:
P.S. Someone quote me i want to say hi to nicholas.
Hi nicholas! How are you doing? It's beem so long, we need to catch up :)
I'm fine thanks, yourself?
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Much as I respect Dave, I've gotta say if you make an accusation in public, you need to put up your evidence. Otherwise, it's just bitching, and there's too much bitching in the community these days.
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Hey, that's not fair! You said you blocked me! ;)
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Much as I respect Dave, I've gotta say if you make an accusation in public, you need to put up your evidence. Otherwise, it's just bitching, and there's too much bitching in the community these days.
Is he even part of the "community" these days?
What has he contributed since Commodore went belly up besides bitchy comments towards legends of the Amiga scene?
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Rather than putting energy into fighting and compile a list of Amiga software that works on Morphos.
So much this and that on Amiga.org, don't get me wrong it has helped me heaps getting whdload and my Amiga 1200 up and running, but just imagine what we could do if we all stopped the fighting and moved it forward.
There seems to be the 68k classic users, the WINUAE users, Aros users, Sam440/460, x1000, AmigaOS XL and Morphos users...we all love the Amiga and we all have views of what we believe is best way forward for the Amiga.
It is a shame it has become so fragmented but at the time so good as it means the Amiga look and feel is available on so many platforms.
Anyway my 2 cents.
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this remember me of... red dwarf and the felis sapiens civil war. they formed a religion based on the saviour "cloister the stupid". the race splits and descends into civil war over red and blue hats...
interesting story, you can read more about it here...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_%28Red_Dwarf%29
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... it's not breaking the TOS nor is it offending towards anyone in any way.
But it is pointless.
My vote is for Kirk too. His "first shoot - then ask" attitude saved the crews butt a few times. And you surely can´t replace Spock - even if you have Pinoccio (Data) running around reading from empty sheets of plexiglass.
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Coincidentally since you left. ;)
left?
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... I've gotta say if you make an accusation in public, you need to put up your evidence...
Oh, you must be new to the Internet...
That's not how it works.. :lol:
Reader's Digest version:
Dave doesn't like MorphOS. OK.
He thinks they stole code. OK.
There's no real proof of that.. OK.
Dave still thinks it.. OK.
He's allowed. IMHO...
Piru wants an apology.. OK..
He's allowed to ask for one..
Dave's not going to apologize..
Oh well..
Microsoft thinks Linux stole code...
They are allowed..
I disagree with them. But they won't apologize either..
Now, when I say they are "allowed" their opinions, I'm talking my reality. There are various slander and other related laws that have very little to do with my reality that could always come into play..
desiv
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What is his email then? I tried to find it, but could not. If you know it, please PM me or email it to sintonen@iki.fi.
He made the accusation couple of days ago.
You could contact him directly on ebay. If he won't reply their or the forum originally quoted from why would he respond here?
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These accusations, without any proof, have just removed all respect I have ever had for Dave Haynie.
What has he done for the Amiga community over the last 15 years? Why is he repeating these unfounded allegations now and stirring up more flames?
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Oh well..
You've got it. Piru's got the right to ask for an apology but probably it's not leading anywhere. I just saw hazydave zipping through this thread but if I were him I'd probably ignore it - not to fuel the flame.
Piru, a serious approach to this problem would be an open statement on the project sites on the legality and origin of the code. That should settle all doubt for those actually interested.
Actually, that statement plus a bit on the history and becoming of MorphOS and its modules would be quite interesting!
btw: You can contact him by the mail address found on his frogpondmedia video site (http://www.frogpondmedia.com/).
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These accusations, without any proof, have just removed all respect I have ever had for Dave Haynie.
What has he done for the Amiga community over the last 15 years? Why is he repeating these unfounded allegations now and stirring up more flames?
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=33564&forum=25&start=540&viewmode=flat&order=0#611325
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You could contact him directly on ebay
I don't have an ebay account and don't intend to get one for this.
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The topic of this thread needs to be changed to "An immature, open rant about Dave Haynie" since you're too stubborn to actually contact him yourself. It isn't like he's trying to hide from you. Why are you making this so personal and airing such dirty laundry in the open? The reasonable thing to do would be to contact him personally and settle your differences with him one-on-one instead of turning this site into your own little "I hate Dave" site. Stop trying to drag MOS fans and the uninformed into your little mud-slinging tirade.
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What is his email then? I tried to find it, but could not. If you know it, please PM me or email it to sintonen@iki.fi.
http://www.frogpondmedia.com/about.html
Doesn't that address work?
#6
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Well, I was never really interested, but after reading the thread here and mostly the thread on Amigaworld.net and Dave's statements and ITIX's replies..
I was on the fence before, thinking Dave was probably overreacting, and that was fine to me..
Now, mostly based on ITIX's replies, I'm fairly convinced that there probably was what would, at least in the U.S., be considered improper handling of original code..
Now, I still don't care...
If I would have wanted MorphOS, I'd still want it.
If I wouldn't have wanted MorphOS, I'd still not want it.
desiv
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Why are you making this so personal and airing such dirty laundry in the open? The reasonable thing to do would be to contact him personally and settle your differences with him one-on-one instead of turning this site into your own little "I hate Dave" site. Stop trying to drag MOS fans and the uninformed into your little mud-slinging tirade.
You have got to be joking.
Mr. Haynie has repeatedly made defamatory accusations against MorphOS as well as its developers in public fora over the course of several years. And yet, you think it is the MorphOS developers who should discuss this only in private after being verbally violated in public over and over again?
You, sir, have a skewed sense of morality.
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It is perfectly reasonable for Piru to write an open letter to Dave Haynie in the light of these accusations. If Piru is at fault then Dave will post his evidence, it is a two way street.
They are both members here, they can have a thread about it and the rest of us can learn what has transpired.
False accusations are definitely of interest. Some of you need to think about what it means to develop original content (whether it is writing, code, graphics or music) and then have someone else claim you didn't make that.
If that was me I would be fairly cheesed off and I would do the same thing as Piru has done.
Another thing: this is quite a serious thread, maybe some of you can stop posting bilge here that isn't relevant.
That would be nice, thanks.
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Another thing: this is quite a serious thread, maybe some of you can stop posting bilge here that isn't relevant.
That would be nice, thanks.
Despite usually being the instigator of off-topic bilge, for once, I agree. All off-topic posts have been moved to this thread (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=57457).
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It is perfectly reasonable for Piru to write an open letter to Dave Haynie in the light of these accusations.
No, it isn´t :)
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No, it isn´t :)
Why not? (If the answer is "because it is pointless.", I ask, "why is it pointless?")
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The topic of this thread needs to be changed to "An immature, open rant about Dave Haynie" since you're too stubborn to actually contact him yourself. It isn't like he's trying to hide from you. Why are you making this so personal and airing such dirty laundry in the open? The reasonable thing to do would be to contact him personally and settle your differences with him one-on-one instead of turning this site into your own little "I hate Dave" site. Stop trying to drag MOS fans and the uninformed into your little mud-slinging tirade.
As much as I don't enjoy seeing threads like this one, I think you are reading too much into it. The accusations levelled against the MorphOS developers were made in the open, I see no reason why the accused shouldn't be able to challenge the claim in the open too. Furthermore, there's nothing particularly "ranty" about the opening post. It's terse and to the point, sure but nothing that could be construed as a personal attack in the forum TOS, as far as I can see.
While some comments in this thread intimate the view that he's an irrelevant has-been with nothing better to do than criticise everything post commodore, I still have a great deal of respect for Dave (besides, better to be a "has been" than a "was nobody"). Even if he totally hates MorphOS, OS4, AROS that's fine (everybody is entitled to their opinion), but making accusations without being prepared to back them up is a low blow in my opinion.
Piru obviously has a lot of time and effort invested in MorphOS and in his shoes I'd want to see some evidence to a claim like this.
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... but making accusations without being prepared to back them up is a low blow in my opinion.
And for people who have read the amigaworld thread, he has backed them up.
He has replied.
So there is no "low blow."
Whether or not it's enough to answer your personal questions is up to you..
desiv
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If I may chime in, reading Dave's comment, he did say that MOS was guilty of some of his accusations, not all of them... MOS might not have stolen code but they certainly have promoted as the "New Amiga OS" (as have all the next gen OS projects).
Just how I read it.
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And for people who have read the amigaworld thread, he has backed them up.
He has replied.
Before, or after this thread was created?
So there is no "low blow."
Whether or not it's enough to answer your personal questions is up to you..
desiv
You're confusing me with Harry. I'm not the one asking any questions (well, except for the one above :lol:).
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Microsoft thinks Linux stole code...
They are allowed..
Of course... But Microsoft saying, in public "Linux stole code" implies a lot of things, and causes damage to Linux. Just like saying in public that "MorphOS uses stolen code" causes damages to MorphOS'image, in addition to the people working on it (but who cares about human being here ? We're all in love with wires and 0-1...)...
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Before, or after this thread was created?
After...
You're confusing me with Harry. I'm not the one asking any questions (well, except for the one above :lol:).
No I'm not:
a low blow in my opinion.
I was assuming the the phrase above was referring to your opinion, not Harry's...
desiv
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I was assuming the the phrase above was referring to your opinion, not Harry's...
It is my opinion but I was speaking generally when I said "... but making accusations without being prepared to back them up is a low blow in my opinion". If I had meant to refer to Dave specifically, I would have written "... but his making accusations..."
Apologies if that was not clear.
-edit-
Also, note that the remark cited above was a statement and not a question, which is why I responded to this statement of yours:
Whether or not it's enough to answer your personal questions is up to you..
Again, I'm not the one asking the question.
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You have got to be joking.
Mr. Haynie has repeatedly made defamatory accusations against MorphOS as well as its developers in public fora over the course of several years. And yet, you think it is the MorphOS developers who should discuss this only in private after being verbally violated in public over and over again?
You, sir, have a skewed sense of morality.
No, as I said in my earlier post, Piru needs to take it up with Dave personally instead of inviting people like you into getting involved and throwing around your opinion about matters that don't involve you.
And I find it really lame that Piru can be one of the lead MOS programmers but he finds it impossible to locate Dave's email address. What should be inferred from that?
Pretty childish behavior.....he can't find the guy's email address to contact him so he just smears his name all over the Amiga.org.....lame, very lame.
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No, as I said in my earlier post, Piru needs to take it up with Dave personally
Couple of things:
- I have better things to do than to try locate (working) email address of some random guy. Say like fix & port PFS3.
- Dave didn't make his accusations in private, nor is this the first time he's making the accusation.
- You have a weird definition for childish and lame. What should be inferred from that?
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False accusations are definitely of interest. Some of you need to think about what it means to develop original content (whether it is writing, code, graphics or music) and then have someone else claim you didn't make that.
If that was me I would be fairly cheesed off and I would do the same thing as Piru has done.
Another thing: this is quite a serious thread, maybe some of you can stop posting bilge here that isn't relevant.
That would be nice, thanks.
If you know these accusations that are being made are false then why don't you post the proof here and put an end to this as neither the accused or the accuser seem willing to supply any answers... :)
Or perhaps your post isn't relevant either... ;)
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Couple of things:
- I have better things to do than to try locate (working) email address of some random guy. Say like fix & port PFS3.
- Dave didn't make his accusations in private, nor is this the first time he's making the accusation.
- You have a weird definition for childish and lame. What should be inferred from that?
Did the email address from the link I gave you in this thread not work? I can't tell from your post.
#6
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AROS Public License clearly allows that. Furthermore the MorphOS Team has contributed their changes back to AROS.
Now you mention it, I was never satisfied how the AROS code was handled by the MorphOS Team; especially how an AROS Team member (Georg Steger) had to dig through your code to get the code back into AROS.
The least you could have done is make an archive of the APL covered code on a regular basis for the AROS people to port back what they wanted.
And I also guess in the last years no bug fixes have been done in the APL code as I haven't seen anything coming from MorphOS in a long time. IMHO it is your task to obey the APL license and we should not have to beg for it.
Of course, as an open source guy I would prefer it if you would open source the full libraries that contain APL code; but like you said that is not a requirement of the APL license.
greets,
Staf.
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Again, I'm not the one asking the question.
Ah!
THAT Question.. Now I get it.. :hammer:
I can be a bit slow, but only on days whose names end in "y."
desiv
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Couple of things:
- I have better things to do than to try locate (working) email address of some random guy. Say like fix & port PFS3.
- Dave didn't make his accusations in private, nor is this the first time he's making the accusation.
- You have a weird definition for childish and lame. What should be inferred from that?
Oh, so now Dave's just some "random" guy?! I thought he was the guy you addressed your open tirade to. Doesn't sound all that random to me, especially since you named him in your "letter".
And yeah, for a guy whose so busy working on new file systems you certainly have enough time on your hands to manufacture some drama for the trolls on this site.
So you're the one who needs to go back to the dictionary and check up on a few words. Check out the definitions for "random" and "childish".
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I don't see why anyone on this bboard, should expect someone posting on another bboard in response to yet someone else's questions to respond to a demand for a response given on this bboard, especially when its all couched in such vague terms from all sides. But that's just my opinion, and its neither here nor there, and I really don't care one way or the other at this time....
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Oh, so now Dave's just some "random" guy?!
Yes. A guy who I've never had any direct dealings with. I don't know his contact details, nor was quick googling helpful. Thus: random.
As for the rest of your rant: You need to relax.
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If you know these accusations that are being made are false then why don't you post the proof here and put an end to this as neither the accused or the accuser seem willing to supply any answers... :)
It is "innocent until proven guilty" and NOT "guilty until proven innocent."
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Did the email address from the link I gave you in this thread not work?
Since Dave already responded I don't see much point in harassing him with further emails now.
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It is "innocent until proven guilty" and NOT "guilty until proven innocent."
Actually, that's for criminal cases...
Frequently, in non-criminal cases, people do have to prove that they "did not say" or "did not copy" rather than other people proving that they did..
At least in the U.S., where our legal system is second to none.
desiv
(Note: in the above, "none" is a generic reference implying all other legal systems and not meant to be implied as not any legal systems... any statements made cannot be interpreted as my own. IANAL YMMV TTYL)
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It is "innocent until proven guilty" and NOT "guilty until proven innocent."
Not where I live it isn't... :)
They'll have you hung, drawn & quartered before they even realise that you were the victim and not the perpetrator round these parts... ;)
Anyway we're all guilty of something or other, it's just down to bad luck if you get caught... :)
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No, as I said in my earlier post, Piru needs to take it up with Dave personally instead of inviting people like you into getting involved and throwing around your opinion about matters that don't involve you.
Errr, you will find my name on the MorphOS Team website... The name I use on amiga.org is not an alias.
And I find it really lame that Piru can be one of the lead MOS programmers but he finds it impossible to locate Dave's email address. What should be inferred from that?
Again, Mr. Haynie is the person who dragged his allegations into the public eye... Repeatedly. How could anyone possibly deny another person to defend him himself in public after he was accused in public?
Pretty childish behavior.....he can't find the guy's email address to contact him so he just smears his name all over the Amiga.org.....lame, very lame.
How lame is it of Mr. Haynie to smear the name of the MorphOS developers all over ANN, amiga.org, amigaworld.net and MooBunny for years and years and years?
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This thread is so, so petty - I just had to add another comment :-)
You really need to take a few steps back and stop being the thin-skinned drama-queens that you showing yourselves to be...
So someone may have said you appropriated someone else's code?
Grow a set and toughen-up...
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So someone may have said you appropriated someone else's code?
Grow a set and toughen-up...
I don't know where you're coming from but around here claiming that is about the worst kind of insult you can make. Claiming you stole someone else's work without any kind of attribution is yelling bloody murder. This has been going on for 10 years now, and still no-one has cared to point a shred of evidence to back these claims up.
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Oh yeah, I've just made an accusation about you...
Please feel free to post an 'open letter' in an online hobby-forum and demand that I prove my allegations - that you are indeed thin-skinned drama-queens...
FFS...
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Harry,
Much as I respect you and your work on MorphOS, this kind of thing is just a waste of time. Let's not piss off one of the few Amiga legends who still bothers to maintain an interest in Amiga developments.
The MorphOS 2.7 *achievement*, and the *efforts* behind it, is nothing short of *monumental*. No-one with any kind of knowledge of its progress and developments in the past could possibly claim otherwise.
The total work put into it, and the results thereof, goes far, far beyond *any* version of the original Amiga OS, as well as AROS and OS4. It's simply unmatched.
Nobody is expecting *everyone* to like it or take it to their hearts, that simply won't happen, and it's not what is the problem here. But people who claim it's stolen is *not only* belittling the 12 years of *hard and clever work* put into the thing by many, many prominent Amiga people, they are also *discrediting the people* behind it and slandering them in a way that at least is very unethical, or maybe even criminal, depending a little of how expensive your lawyer is that you will use for your lawsuit.
The fact that Ben Hermans/Hyperion had a habbit of doing this in the past, doesn't make it right. *There are no reasons whatsoever* to take accusations like this lightly, and there is also no reason to why an amiga.org moderator should play along in the slander!
"Let's not piss off one of the few Amiga legends who still bothers to maintain an interest in Amiga developments."
Eh, what?
"Maintain an interest in Amiga developments"?! The guy hasn't played any kind of relevant role in the Amiga loop since the Commodore era, not in any way! And to be honest, his role in the Amiga evolution wasn't *that* prominent to begin with. This last time he even surfaced was only to promote his garage sale, featuring items like the AAA prototype motherboard, that he somehow got a hold of from Commodore's Amiga developments...
Let's just delete this thread shall we?
No!!!
Lock it, but *only after* he either puts up evidence (which doesn't exist) for his claims, or make a public apology.
For future public reference!
.
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It is "innocent until proven guilty" and NOT "guilty until proven innocent."
+1
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Worst kind of insult?!? You are kidding, surely...
Without wanting to become too philosophical or bogged down in this petty thread, you really need to step back, get a grip and take a look at the world around you...
I think you spend far too much time sat at a computer screen...
I'm almost tempted to set up a poll just to see how many people think this thread is sad and childish in the extreme...
... my last $0.02 on the issue unless, of course, aspersions on my spotless character are aired.
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Oh yeah, I've just made an accusation about you...
Uh, I wasn't talking about you, but rather about the notion that "it's nothing, toughen up". Excuse me if it didn't come trough clearly enough.
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Worst kind of insult?
Yes
You are kidding, surely.
No
Being accused of IP theft is something you don't take lightly. Ever. I'm rather surprised that there are people who think I am overreacting.
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The fact that Ben Hermans/Hyperion had a habbit of doing this in the past, doesn't make it right.
Oh dear...in "Jaws" terms you're going to need a bigger boat, or at least another thread, if you're going to push the topic in that new direction. [evil grin]
#6
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I don't know where you're coming from but around here claiming that is about the worst kind of insult you can make. Claiming you stole someone else's work without any kind of attribution is yelling bloody murder. This has been going on for 10 years now, and still no-one has cared to point a shred of evidence to back these claims up.
Insult or accusation whichever, if that's about the worst kind of insult someone can make at you then and as you say it's been going on for 10 years then who's the daftest one out of the pair of you... Dave for continuing with these "insults" or you for responding to them for 10 years... :(
Time to realise that were talking minor league stuff here guys that 99.99% of the world couldn't give a crap about (or even know what the frig it's all about in the first place) why not just ignore each other and get on with what you enjoy in life rather than behaving like a couple of old fools who are still in a huff with each other cos you both fell out over a storm in a teacup... :)
Take a chill pill, put yer feet up and say Wibble, you'll feel much better for it... honest... ;)
PS:Im pretty sure there are worse things to be "accused" of and if not then you really need to speak to someone... :)
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Relevant comments only, folks and try not to douse them with too much napalm.
Since Dave already responded I don't see much point in harassing him with further emails now.
I mean, do we need to go on?
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Nope. And since the thread is turning somewhat sour, this is a good time to conclude it.