Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: runequester on April 11, 2011, 08:19:47 PM
-
Seems the forum ate my post :(
Anyways, in 2 months or so, we're looking at moving to anew apartment, which opens up the potential for a big box amiga, since I'll have the space and a dedicated computer room.
So the question is.. 3000 or 4000? (2000 is out, due to 16 bit zorro)
As far as I know:
4000 gets AGA, and comes with an 040 already (generally)
3000 gets a scan doubler included already.
I know the 3000 is SCSI and the 4000 is IDE. What I don't know if what practical difference that makes. I dont think I've ever used a machine with SCSI anything. Anyone care to enlighten me here? :)
Other things to consider?
Stuff that will go into the machine is: 040 or 060 card, scan doubler, RTG, RAM expansion (like zorRAM or something else), USB and some sort of networking solution (whether through USB or otherwise)
THat also brings me to... what are the best networking solutions for these machines?
-
Since you're looking to expand it with a turbo, get the A4000, where the turbo card fits more readily.
If you were to keep the machines more or less stock, the A3000 is not a bad choice at all, unless you require AGA support.
-
Seems the forum ate my post :(
D'Oh! I just moved your other thread from the news section where you must have accidentally dropped it :)
For reference, any posts dropped into the news section are subject to moderation before release, which is why it seemed to disappear.
-
D'Oh! I just moved your other thread from the news section where you must have accidentally dropped it :)
For reference, any posts dropped into the news section are subject to moderation before release, which is why it seemed to disappear.
ah, nevermind. Im an idiot :)
Can you nuke the other one?
-
I just got myself a 3000 recently, and I'm pretty happy with it. The one factor that the 3000 definitely has over the 4000 is price - I got mine for a song, compared to the half-grand figures that even unexpanded 4000s command.
-
A3000: no caps to change (unless the amiga did not work for 8 / 10 years)
-
A3000 if you want my $.02. I'll take SCSI and the sexy A3000 look over an A4000 with its IDE any day of the week. No busted simm sockets to worry about either! :lol:
+1 VingtTrois!
-
If you find one in good condition with no/minimal battery leakage, I wouldn't pass on either.
Both stock, I'd prefer an A3000. Expanded, A4000 might be a better choice. Much more room in the case, AGA. A good accelerator will have faster SCSI than the A3000 onboard. (Or, use a DENEB, 4091, or Fastlane. The latter two are often problematic in an A3000.)
Potential problems with battery leakage aside, keep in mind the 4000 will almost certainly require (at minimum) repair in the form of all SMD capacitors replaced.
-
No busted simm sockets to worry about either! :lol:
Yeah, but a full 16mb of zips ain't easy to come by either.... glad I stockpiled 32mb of zips for my machines.
-
I have both and use the a4k while the 3k sits in the closet.
The 040 is nice to have, AGA is good for some games, and the fact that you can put a cd drive in no problem is nice.
External scsi cdroms are a pain.
-
External scsi cdroms are a pain.
Let your A3000 out of the closet, I'll give her a good home :)
...and external CD-ROM? Who uses CD-ROMS anymore? People without Deneb, that's who. lmao
-
Umm the A4000 blows the 3k away in so many ways its not even funny. Ever try to work on an A3000? It sux. The way its designed its way to small, so to change even minor chips you have to take apart the whole thing it sucks.. not only that but zorris very cramped area so if you are heavily expanding it will get hot.. No AGA, no 5.25 drive bay... its BEIGE not nice white like A4k etc etc etc
-
I have an A2000, A3000 and A4000. The A2000 and A4000 are both hooked up while the A3000 sits on a shelf. I think that says it all.
Yes, the A4000 has a built in SDFF, but the A4000 has AGA.
Both have Zorro 3.
The A4000 mobo will take a 16MB SIMM, while good luck trying to find a bucket-load of ZIPs for the A3000.
There's bugger all space in the A3000 for a CD ROM drive.
SCSI devices will be a pain to track down on eBay while you can rip lots of cheap IDE devices off old, broken PCs.
If you do add a CPU card (for faster speed and extra RAM) then the chances are that it will have SCSI on it.
Do remember that the A4000 has a single IDE header (2 devices). I terminated mine and put a FastATA4000 into one of the Zorro slots. If you're saving money then a Buddha card would be an option too.
-
What the frack is Zorris? 5-1/4" Drive bay today is useless and white vs. beige vs. brown? lol Service wise, the A4000 is a surface-mounted budgeted POS compared to the A3000. I am disappointed the '030 and '882 aren't socketed on the A3000 - but I think you are way, way off here comparing the two machines from a serviceman's standpoint. Besides all that, when your accelerator card goes out in an A4000, what are you left with? The processor isn't even a part of the mainboard! lol
The A1200/A600/A4000/CD32 are all piles of rubbish from a service techs pov. They're all as disposable as the company that designed them. How convenient and non-forward looking they were. :(
-
save2600
Service tech? Lol every amiga user is this by now... I an assure you the A3k is the WORST Amiga to Repair/Fix due to case design and small space. PERIOD there is no argument there you can mount. As far as socketed vs SMD i do agree, but to be honest no a4k i 've ever had had an smd component failure (except CIA from user error)
so A3k vs a4k isnt even a challenge. THE ONLY thing good is the VGA ff output (but guess what VERY prone to failure)
I've probably built/upgraded/ fixed more A3000s than you have ever even seen in person! :)
-
@magnetic:
All I'm saying is that I bet there are or will be more A3000's in use years from now than A4000's. And I bet you're right about the number of A3000 machines you've serviced/upgraded than I, but I am no stranger to board repair - 25 years in electronics repair that is. I know a better, more serviceable design when I see it and the A4000 is not a "better" design by any stretch. Short term maybe. And only 20 years ago. But crap components and shit materials are used throughout. Legacy A4000 and AGA in general will nigh be a shit stain in computing terms, let alone PC history. My impressions are all I'm projecting here :)
...and this talk about "cramped" case design, I agree with C=John. Hardly. A3000 has plenty of space for reasonable upgradability. Screw 040 cards w/ their large power consumption and fan reliance... who's gonna bother with that shit? If they're so inclined, I bet they know how or would be willing to cut themselves through some sheet metal for better airflow. lmao 3.3v 060 cards, no problem. No cut, no fuss, no muss! :lol:
-
Oh, the A3000 is hardly all that cramped - you should look in some of the godawful late-'90s micro-towers I've had to repair! The 3k is palatial compared to that, and while it's annoying that the drive support is on top of everything, it's really not that much trouble to remove.
Screw 040 cards w/ their large power consumption and fan reliance... who's gonna bother with that shit?
Oh, I dunno - if you get the right card it's no big deal. Mine has a GVP 040 card, and it doesn't even scrape the underside of the drive carriage, or run all that hot.
-
Screw 040 cards w/ their large power consumption and fan reliance... who's gonna bother with that shit?
Oh, I dunno - if you get the right card it's no big deal. Mine has a GVP 040 card, and it doesn't even scrape the underside of the drive carriage, or run all that hot.
-
The A1200/A600/A4000/CD32 are all piles of rubbish from a service techs pov. They're all as disposable as the company that designed them. How convenient and non-forward looking they were. :([/QUOTE]
:flame: save2600
Only joking LOL:roflmao:
In all honesty though I've never had any of my amiga's fail, and I ran a 1200 for about 10 years about 6 hours per day and it was abused as well with internal 3.5" hard drive with ram and standard PSU.
Oh hang on, yes I have had an amiga fail...my A600 had the keyboard go down...the connector at the end (is it carbon or something?)...it went soggy and disintegrated. I did a fix by cutting a 1/16 or a little less off the end and plugging it back in again and it worked....until I had to take the keyboard off again a few weeks later. I suppose some of them just wear out with age, whilst others seem not to. So had to buy a membrane from Ebay. Other than that...no problem.
Oh, the keys that went down on my A600 were all the top row (Escape, F1 to F10 and Help). The others were fine.
-
2600
Oh, and I forgot the best part if you want to turn the A3k into a power box, you have to Remove the motheroboard and run the INT2 HACK. Thats fun.. not. Also, good luck finding an accel that fits in the a3k .
-
Hahahahahah! Good one Paul1981, I know I opened myself up to lots of flaming, but there are plenty of "service techs" that can repair old Legacy Amiga's. Who repairs the newer stuff? Pretty much just one guy and he's in France. Experiences seem to vary with him too.
@Magnetic - no need to run an accelerator on my A3000. 25mhz 030 with the MMU_tools is as fast as I need this machine to be. Faster than my iMac G5 in some respects :)
Guys and gals, at the end of the day- you gotta know... I love all things legacy Amiga, but I do believe C= skimped and cheapened out big time toward the end. It's only natural that they did. I'm not only talking feature wise (debatable obviously) but quality wise as well. Whatever. If your mileage varies, great! Keep on enjoying your machines. :)
-
Seems the forum ate my post :(
Anyways, in 2 months or so, we're looking at moving to anew apartment, which opens up the potential for a big box amiga, since I'll have the space and a dedicated computer room.
So the question is.. 3000 or 4000? (2000 is out, due to 16 bit zorro)
As far as I know:
4000 gets AGA, and comes with an 040 already (generally)
3000 gets a scan doubler included already.
I know the 3000 is SCSI and the 4000 is IDE. What I don't know if what practical difference that makes. I dont think I've ever used a machine with SCSI anything. Anyone care to enlighten me here? :)
Other things to consider?
Stuff that will go into the machine is: 040 or 060 card, scan doubler, RTG, RAM expansion (like zorRAM or something else), USB and some sort of networking solution (whether through USB or otherwise)
THat also brings me to... what are the best networking solutions for these machines?
I own both. The A3000 is nice (just like all amigas...) but rarely used (despiting the fact that I invested a fortune upgrading it).
Get an A4000. It will cause you less problems. A3000 case is beautiful but is very uncomfortable, it requires updating almost everything and ends up being much more expensive. A3000 scsi is problematic depending on accelerator/chip combo (and it´s slow compared to any decent scsi from Cyberstorm, warpengine. The onboard 030 is a joke if you are used to 040/060 speeds like me. ZIPs suck because they are both expensive and if you have bad contacts you will get crazy trying to find which ZIP is causing the problems. Buster is outdated and you need to update it. Scandoubler is old if you plan to use TFT you really need an Indivision (unless you can live with ntsc screenmodes, I can´t since most stuff I run is designed for pal). A4000 causes far less problems IMHO.
About SMD silly comments: SMD in fact causes that failure rate is much lower because you can rule out easily bad contacts, chips coming loose, cracked sockets, users inserting chips in the opposite way... it saves power and allows designing smaller boards. Even the A3000 uses SMD for its 030.
-
Hey Runequestor,
This is truly a matter of taste, with some emotion, and followed by what use you want of it.
First I have had both 3000 (Desktop&Tower) and 4000 (Desktop&Custom Tower). Now I only have 4 Amiga 3000D's all networked together with various levels of expansion. I personally think the 3000 desktop was the best piece of hardware commodore ever made, period. The design suits my tastes and needs.
That's it for the emotion and taste.
The positives of the 3000D:
1. Perfect sized chassis (subjective to needs).
2. A fully expanded 3000 will be the same performance as a expanded 4000.
3. Less prone to failure (my experience) then the 4000. The only issue is the battery. I have refurbed 3k's with extensive battery damage, and the denise socket may be a casualty.
The only negatives I would say a 3000D has is:
1. No AGA.
2. A limited number of ideal accelerators. The Cyberstorm MK3 and Warp Engine 3040 are about the best fit for a 040 or 060 with SCSI and Memory. With other solutions you won't have SCSI or memory, or may have to hack the chassis to fit it in.
As I said, it is mostly a matter of taste, I found the 4k's to be annoying with IDE and caps. I never wanted to play AGA games.
Perhaps whatever you get a great deal on might help you decide... Have fun and good luck!
Matt
-
About SMD silly comments: SMD in fact causes that failure rate is much lower because you can rule out easily bad contacts, chips coming loose, cracked sockets, users inserting chips in the opposite way... it saves power and allows designing smaller boards. Even the A3000 uses SMD for its 030.
Yes, as I stated - the 030/882/881 is smd. That was stupid, but it was done for cost reasons. Surface mounted components and my observation of them are not silly. I am a tech in an industry going 25+ years servicing motherboards. In theory, what you stated is true: smd's equal less maintenance. That was all and good within their (the company's legal liability) useable lifespan, which is 7 years. In reality, smd components still suffer the same fate as socketable components: only that they are that much more of a bitch to deal with and diagnose than previous designs. I deal with several computers and circuit boards daily. Replacing a socket (rarely necessary) and more likely, cleaning the legs of a chip are much more desirable than dealing with the uncertainty of guessing (or using precision instruments) which one of those tiny bastards are to blame in dealing with smd components.
@magnetic - I do recognize soldering a NiCad battery to the mobo, where it was so close to vital componenets was retarded. For sure. Horrible, horrible design. But again - 7 year legal liability lifespan. Can't tell you how many other consumer electronic companies did similar things. :(
Ask an "engineer" why they do the things they do to placate the FCC or other legal "entities". There's politics behind consumer electronics and who always gets to sniff the glove? why you and I of course.
-
At matt3k
First why the hell do you have so many amigas? i dont get it...
Anyway I forgot about the A3k battery. Oh man when that thing leaks, there are components all around it the WORST of all the amigas!
Also AGA isnt just for games. If you do serious graphics or toaster AGA is invaluable.
-
I had an A3000, and a couple of A4000's as well. A3000 was the best amiga I ever owned, by far. I love the things.
-
In a nutshell....
A4000 gives you AGA, access to cheaper IDE drives, and room inside for two hard drives, two floppies, and a 5.25" drive (optical drive though this would remove one hard drive since IDE can only handle two drives) and for RAM uses easier to get SIMMs instead of ZIPs to expand its Motherboard to its max. 3000 only has room for two hard drives and two floppies no 5.25" internal. Oh, and that SCSI cable is honking huge!
Now, AGA isn't as big a deal if you intend to get an RTG graphics card but then nor is the scandoubler of the 3000 since your VGA monitor would be plugged into the graphics card at that point and the better, later, Zorro III RTG cards have scandoublers assuming you can get them.
SCSI in the 3000 gives you access to old Scanners, tape drives assuming you intend to use these. If not really it gives you nothing and SCSI can be added to the 4000 at the expense of a slot and the only floppy drives you can really use internal have to be designed for the 3k due to having to conform to the faceplate of the machine. 4k has an open rectangle for internal drives so your available drive pool increases to just about any Amiga drive that fits a standard drive space.
3000 is better looking and with RTG can run almost everything the 4k can. a 3k will never run any AGA only software (stuff that bangs hardware) and never use a Video toaster 4000 the same way a 4000 can (not that you are probably considering that).
RTG with builtin scandoublers are the Picasso IV and Cybervision 64 cards (of course, since these are separatable parts to allow the card to be used in the 2k which does not have its video slot in line with Zorro, make sure if you get one that it includes the scandoubler card if broken off to install in a 2k. I have heard of people buying them assuming the scandoubler comes with it and finding out later it doesn't). Ones that done have it are Retina ZIII
3000 pros probably cheaper, better looking, scandoubler, SCSI for non hard drive applications, same zorro III for better RTG cards that 4k has, built like a tank.
3000 cons 030, harder to get ZIP ram on mobo, custom floppy drive slots, scandoubler made redundant by RTG cards that include one, built like a tank (hard to work inside)
4000 pros AGA for games that need it, 040 standard on many models, IDE for cheaper drives, more drive bays, standard Floppy bays, SIMM RAM on mobo, more open inside for access (RAM on ZORRO side instead of under drives) Zorro III, no scandoubler to be made redundant by RTG card (depending on wether what you get has built in or not).
4000 cons tend to be more expensive, watch out for the buggy 3.0 '040 card and rev 9 Buster that has issues with Zorro III cards and '040 hitting the RAM at the same time causing lockups make sure you get a 3.1 card and rev 11 Buster - 030s never have this issue nor do third party CPU cards (at least I don't think they do), RTG better than AGA as long as software supports it, less of a tank (not as well built and some parts more flimsy) no scandoubler.
Great site for 4000 info: http://www.wonkity.com/~wblock/a4000hard/main.html
-
Man, all you guys with A3000s collecting dust should give them to me. I love that machine and the A1000, which I hope to acquire soon as part of my collection.
-
I have both I prefer the A4000 why? Less headache on the A3000 my zip ram started to act up as some said pain to try and find which is the bad one I opted to use a sim to zip adapter still had to make sure everything was aligned.
It took me much longer to clean and make sure everything was working on the A3000 then A4000 (speaking from a normal person stand point which you are as well ie not an expert electronics tech) taking it apart was also a pain, but come down to what you want to use it for, quite frankly now that my A2000 has an indivision i use that more then the A3000.
The computers i use the most are in order:
A1200
A4000
A2000
A500
C64
an A3000
Unless you have a video card in your A3000 you not going to like the output (trust me).
As for caps they "may" fail but i have not had one yet not to say i will not replace them at a later date and apart from the guy in France there is an Amiga repair guy in New Zealand and Australia also i think Amigakit do repairs (not sure)
For less headache i would go the A4000 route with indivision as even with the A3000 you have to find a monitor that works (crt are ok but tft ...... )
-
@magneto:
All I'm saying is that I bet there are or will be more A3000's in use years from now than A4000's. And I bet you're right about the number of A3000 machines you've serviced/upgraded than I, but I am no stranger to board repair - 25 years in electronics repair that is. I know a better, more serviceable design when I see it and the A4000 is not a "better" design by any stretch. Short term maybe. And only 20 years ago. But crap components and shit materials are used throughout. Legacy A4000 and AGA in general will nigh be a shit stain in computing terms, let alone PC history. My impressions are all I'm projecting here :)
...l:
Short term?!! And ONLY 20 years?!!
I don't think a single person bought an A4000 in 1992 thinking they'd be using them in 2011. And if it weren't for a battery leak and caps drying out there would be more a lot more of 'em in the wild.
-
IMHO SMD caps and IC's are generally easier to replace. I'm not an electronics tech, but I've had no problem at all keeping my motherboards working flawlessly. It's time consuming (for me at least), requires good eyesight and a steady hand... from that perspective, I can understand the sentiment of not wanting to do it for a living. I'm not an expert and have much to learn, but I've never had to send a motherboard off for repair, especially for caps or other easier repairs. (Shameless plug - if I felt I couldn't do the job perfectly myself, I'd without question send it to Anthony Hoffman in NZ.)
-
At matt3k
First why the hell do you have so many amigas? i dont get it...
Anyway I forgot about the A3k battery. Oh man when that thing leaks, there are components all around it the WORST of all the amigas!
Also AGA isnt just for games. If you do serious graphics or toaster AGA is invaluable.
To answer your question. I don't know I just do... Kinda neat to have them on my home network. Because I can would be the only answer I can come up with... My kids use one of them I, once in along time, I use my 3k system. Heck, I even used my 3000T as my home server before I sold it years ago...
My serious graphics use was pagestream and tv paint, where RTG CGX worked perfect. Besides games and toaster AGA, what would AGA give you over RTG CGX?
I mostly use my Peg 2 with MOS 2.7 (noticed you had one as well) or the pc these days. I have contemplated selling some of them, but haven't found my 'round tuit' yet...
-
Rune,
The other big reason I forgot to mention is that simply put the 4000's feel cheap compared to a 3000. The 3000 is more solid and wasn't chopped down by cost considerations nearly as much.
But as I said earlier, this is a subjective argument. What ever one you get for the right price is the winner!
-
matt3k
Its cool man I'm just tired of amiga hoarders who dont use the gear and just collect, when people out there coming back to amiga or need rare hw for projects cant get the stuff.. this is a real problem nowadays.. why have 2x this 3x that? silly
-
matt3k
Its cool man I'm just tired of amiga hoarders who dont use the gear and just collect, when people out there coming back to amiga or need rare hw for projects cant get the stuff.. this is a real problem nowadays.. why have 2x this 3x that? silly
I agree with you. That is exactly why I sold off my 3000T and my 4000's. Didn't use them anymore... My original logic for having the 4 3000's was spare parts frankly... But over the years I started cleaning them up and adding to them... Sound's like an addiction problem...LOL
I will sell off one or two of them... I have been planning to use one with the phonepak to answer the phones again... One kick butt phone system :-)
-
I agree with you. That is exactly why I sold off my 3000T and my 4000's. Didn't use them anymore... My original logic for having the 4 3000's was spare parts frankly... But over the years I started cleaning them up and adding to them... Sound's like an addiction problem...LOL
I will sell off one or two of them... I have been planning to use one with the phonepak to answer the phones again... One kick butt phone system :-)
I try to make use of what I have, but I admit to keeping spares of hardware I find especially valuable/enjoyable like the Picasso IV. Fortunately my kids enjoy the hobby too, so that helps keep them (kids and Amigas) busy. I've also gone through the process of keeping one for "spare parts", that eventually gets repaired and upgraded to another nice system.
All this talk about the A3K is motivating me to finally get off my butt and finish putting mine together. I think all I'm missing is a good accelerator w/scsi that fits correctly (somewhat limited options there, LOL). The Phonepack is also a great idea, especially now that I'm going back to a landline. (Ditched the cell entirely - feels great!) One thing I like about the A3000 over the 4000 is the keyboard - the latter is mushy, only marginally better than the desktop models. :-/ Regardless, I still say buy based on condition first, trivial details aside either one will be very nice.
-
Sorry, but you don't know what your talking about here. I have a half dozen 4000d's (and T's also)and they never miss a beat,my main one is towered with mediator and csppc. it was a desktop from 1994 and has run 24/7 since then-the case and psu are still going with another board in it.. i have owned and repaired MANY 3000's. the only garbage components i can think of on the 4000 is maybe the battery simm connectors, and caps.The simm connectors are fragile but most the time get mistreated by users not installing simms/removing simms correctly.the 3000's zip sockets have caused alot of grief with bad contact and tarnishing.
Other than that its no different than a A3000 other than it doesn't have problems with tarnishing old sockets (short of roms and buster maybe).The 3000 is a good machine,but its prone to connection problems on its sockets.
You forget most 3000's didn't come with the latest chips, you were lucky to get buster 9,dmac2 and ramsey4.. And boy did we love the early rev 7 boards that needed a rom tower to upgrade the roms(yep,now know theres roms for that pinout w/o the tower but not in 89')most came with buster 7 or less which means zorro3 is not working.
Its hard to find a decent fitting accelerator for a 3000 desktop(warpengine 3040 comes to mind as fitting well but was limited to 64MB).the 3000 neeeds a INT2 mod for accelerating with scsi. most other accelerators require the 3000 to be cut.Most had the buggy proto4 scsi chip.its 030/25 stock on its best day while the a4000 can be had with 040/25 quite a decent difference comparing stock machines.
the 4000 has aga. i prefer rtg,but i'll take aga over ecs any day! And i did back in the day before picasso IV's came out in 95? :)aga may be slow,but ecs is slower :)
the 4000 has more powerfull power supply.
the 4000 case cools slightly better than the 3000 and is easier to disassemble.
the 4000 can fit a cdrom internally(if most you people out there realize there ARE right angle power connector pigtails and shorter cdrw/dvdrw's etc_ they fit fine.
i can't count the boards i've fixed bad A3000 chip ram on.this causes random seemingly hard to find crashes.
zips.. expensive ram. the 3000 does address ram faster off the motherboard,but when u accelerate both machines with fast ram on the accelerator this becomes moot.
the 3000 has the scan doubler,this is handy.
Using a video toaster 4000 is a 3000 cripples it on colors iirc.
the 040 in the 4000's A3640 doesn't come with a fan,its only got a heatsink which works just fine,and 040's don't run much hotter than some 030/50's(revisions depending here).power consumption on the 040 is slightly more,but still trivial-its not like it will tax the psu! ...have you even owned one?
cramped case? you must be kidding,the 3000 is terrible compared to the 3000.
you get what you pay for.
mike
@magneto:
All I'm saying is that I bet there are or will be more A3000's in use years from now than A4000's. And I bet you're right about the number of A3000 machines you've serviced/upgraded than I, but I am no stranger to board repair - 25 years in electronics repair that is. I know a better, more serviceable design when I see it and the A4000 is not a "better" design by any stretch. Short term maybe. And only 20 years ago. But crap components and shit materials are used throughout. Legacy A4000 and AGA in general will nigh be a shit stain in computing terms, let alone PC history. My impressions are all I'm projecting here :)
...and this talk about "cramped" case design, I agree with C=John. Hardly. A3000 has plenty of space for reasonable upgradability. Screw 040 cards w/ their large power consumption and fan reliance... who's gonna bother with that shit? If they're so inclined, I bet they know how or would be willing to cut themselves through some sheet metal for better airflow. lmao 3.3v 060 cards, no problem. No cut, no fuss, no muss! :lol:
-
Hi Damion,
You have a Picasso IV, now I'm jealous ;)... My kids really enjoy their 3000 it has ton of educational games and they have fun with it.
I have always been partial to Macrosystems and the 3040 for Amiga accelerators. The cyberstorm mk3 is also good choice. There is a MK3 on ebay now if you want to snatch it.
Have you ever used a phonepak? They really have more features than many home systems you can buy today. GVP did an awesome job with it...
What parts do you have for the 3k stored up?
I try to make use of what I have, but I admit to keeping spares of hardware I find especially valuable/enjoyable like the Picasso IV. Fortunately my kids enjoy the hobby too, so that helps keep them (kids and Amigas) busy. I've also gone through the process of keeping one for "spare parts", that eventually gets repaired and upgraded to another nice system.
All this talk about the A3K is motivating me to finally get off my butt and finish putting mine together. I think all I'm missing is a good accelerator w/scsi that fits correctly (somewhat limited options there, LOL). The Phonepack is also a great idea, especially now that I'm going back to a landline. (Ditched the cell entirely - feels great!) One thing I like about the A3000 over the 4000 is the keyboard - the latter is mushy, only marginally better than the desktop models. :-/ Regardless, I still say buy based on condition first, trivial details aside either one will be very nice.
-
Wow... First the Red vs. Blue wars now Red vs. Red.:)
4000 vs. 3000. Just like everything, they both have their strong and weak points. SMD caps on the 4000 - not a big deal at all. I find them almost easier
to replace but that's me.
-
Wow... First the Red vs. Blue wars now Red vs. Red.:)
4000 vs. 3000. Just like everything, they both have their strong and weak points. SMD caps on the 4000 - not a big deal at all. I find them almost easier
to replace but that's me.
I think if its a classic amiga war, its more grey vs grey. Or these days.. yellow vs yellow :)
-
I think the A3000 looks the best, probably joint first place for nicest looking Amiga with the A1000. However for me I would rather have the 030/25 A4000 for sure from a performance point of view.
-
Besides games and toaster AGA, what would AGA give you over RTG CGX?
Demoscene!!! http://ada.untergrund.net
-
Hi Damion,
You have a Picasso IV, now I'm jealous ;)... My kids really enjoy their 3000 it has ton of educational games and they have fun with it.
I have always been partial to Macrosystems and the 3040 for Amiga accelerators. The cyberstorm mk3 is also good choice. There is a MK3 on ebay now if you want to snatch it.
The Warp Engine 3040 looks like an excellent choice. Great SCSI chip and apparently a fast memory interface. I wouldn't mind an MK3, maybe even an MK2 - and deal with motherboard SCSI, which honestly isn't too terrible. For what it'll be used for, I'd be content with a nice '040 card. The educational software is a good idea... might be more productive for the kids than WHDLoad (LOL).
Have you ever used a phonepak? They really have more features than many home systems you can buy today. GVP did an awesome job with it...
Not yet - I have yet to use (let alone obtain) the PhonePak. I never gave it serious thought until you mentioned it. It looks awesome! I noticed this note at amiga.resouce:
in order to use the PhonePak in an A3000 or A4000, a Zorro II RAM expansion has to be added in another slot because these machines have problems with Zorro II DMA to Chip RAM
Did you experience this issue? My understanding was that this shouldn't be a problem with a Buster 9 or 11, or anything other than an early 3640 WRT the A4K.
What parts do you have for the 3k stored up?
So far, just the usual bits. Buster 11, DMAC 4/Ramsey 7, the upgraded WD chip, and a load of ZIPs to finish populating the motherboard. These were all a very generous gift from a good friend and fellow Amiga nut a few years back. I have an Ariadne and PIV set aside, though I might end up going with a CV64 - seems a shame not to make use of Amber. (There's the old Spectrum 28/24 I've considered using, a decent enough card IMHO.) Being left on for long periods, I'll probably re-cap the PSU and use some kind of HD surge protection. Aside from that, I'm trying not to get too carried away as I often do. I'm sure you know how that goes... :)
-
Demoscene!!! http://ada.untergrund.net
This is really the main reason IMHO. Although - there are are a surprisingly fair number of AGA-era demos that run under CGX. I remember watching most of the ephiderina and elude demos on my A2K, they ran great!
-
Yeah, but a full 16mb of zips ain't easy to come by either.... glad I stockpiled 32mb of zips for my machines.
That's correct - they are a pain to track down. In fact, someone on eBay is selling 16MBs of ZIPs for $125 - proof that they are fairly in demand.
Fortunately, I've got a nice A3000 with full ZIP compliment for sale on eBay right now...and it has a lot of the latest chips and an original high-density floppy drive built in --- a very good A3000. Oh, and I've also removed the original battery and replaced it with a safer rechargeable.
http://cgi.ebay.ca/Commodore-Amiga-3000-desktop-computer-excellent-shape-/200596295375?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item2eb4788ecf
I'm also selling an 040 accelerator for it and a Cybergraphix RTG card.
http://shop.ebay.ca/bn013/m.html?_trksid=p4340.l2562
-
The Warp Engine 3040 looks like an excellent choice. Great SCSI chip and apparently a fast memory interface. I wouldn't mind an MK3, maybe even an MK2 - and deal with motherboard SCSI, which honestly isn't too terrible. For what it'll be used for, I'd be content with a nice '040 card. The educational software is a good idea... might be more productive for the kids than WHDLoad (LOL).
The MK2 is a real nice choice, I ran one for awhile with the MB SCSI. For the amount of data your pulling with an Amiga, it is more than enough. If you can find a MK3 or 3040, it would be the icing on the cake. I never ran a MK3 but I heard it fits perfect.
Sad story, I gave educational software as a gift, before I had kids. My relative destroyed all of them. I could recovery anything. A real kind soul recently sold me a nice collection and my kids are having a ball.
Not yet - I have yet to use (let alone obtain) the PhonePak. I never gave it serious thought until you mentioned it. It looks awesome! I noticed this note at amiga.resouce:
The phonepak really is SO nice. Compared to any phone system I have used, it is the best solution I have used. I may have a line on a card, I will make some calls and see if I can dig one up for you...
Did you experience this issue? My understanding was that this shouldn't be a problem with a Buster 9 or 11, or anything other than an early 3640 WRT the A4K.
Not an issue for me at all, with the Buster 11. I have no experience with the Buster 9 though. That was well documented by GVP years ago, you did need a z2 memory card if your buster could handle it.
So far, just the usual bits. Buster 11, DMAC 4/Ramsey 7, the upgraded WD chip, and a load of ZIPs to finish populating the motherboard. These were all a very generous gift from a good friend and fellow Amiga nut a few years back. I have an Ariadne and PIV set aside, though I might end up going with a CV64 - seems a shame not to make use of Amber. (There's the old Spectrum 28/24 I've considered using, a decent enough card IMHO.) Being left on for long periods, I'll probably re-cap the PSU and use some kind of HD surge protection. Aside from that, I'm trying not to get too carried away as I often do. I'm sure you know how that goes... :)
Very nice system you will be building. Have fun.. It does start to eat up some time, because of the nostalgic fun... If you need anything to complete a system let me know what you may need, maybe we can trade or I may sell. I will be selling off one of my 3k's with a retina z2 and x-surf nic.
-
2600
Oh, and I forgot the best part if you want to turn the A3k into a power box, you have to Remove the motheroboard and run the INT2 HACK. Thats fun.. not. Also, good luck finding an accel that fits in the a3k .
Have to disagree. If you know what your doing you can easily do the int2 mod without motherboard removal with a couple jumpers. Amiga 3000 has always been my favorite.
-
matt3k
Its cool man I'm just tired of amiga hoarders who dont use the gear and just collect, when people out there coming back to amiga or need rare hw for projects cant get the stuff.. this is a real problem nowadays.. why have 2x this 3x that? silly
I do not collect, I have just been buying and using amigas since 1985 when they came out. I sell stuff sometimes but shipping is a PITA. I once put an ad on craigslist for someone to come pickup a bunch of hardware for free, not one taker. Many asked if I would ship and I said no. So just because people have many amiga items doesn't mean they are collecters. I have given stuff away many times.
-
Oh, almost forgot... wasn't the polarity reversed on some/most of those smd capacitors in certain A4000 revisions? Not just talking about on the 3640 card either. I've had at least 2 A4000 mobo's come through here that needed their caps replaced. One of the audio caps leaked so bad on one board that it took out the entire area and the components around it. Similar damage as that of a leaky battery.
-
I have an A3000 and i cant understand why ppl say its hard to do the INT2 Hack or upgrading it due to it being in a smaler case.
I shake like a newborn kitten on crack when i solder and it worked on the first try for me. I also fitted a CSPPC 060/50 233mhz without any problem, the zip ram is now removed and will probably never be used again.
The only thing i want to buy now is a deneb and a SSD disk instead of my "normal" scsi disk. To bad the scsi to sata converters are so damn expensive.
-
Let your A3000 out of the closet, I'll give her a good home :)
I'd be willing to take an offer on it :)
Details here:
http://steve.odyfamily.com/?page_id=22
-
I'd be willing to take an offer on it :)
Details here:
http://steve.odyfamily.com/?page_id=22
That's a nice A3000!
-
is there no way to do a vote on here, and are you ruling out the T series?
3000T takes my vote.
-
is there no way to do a vote on here, and are you ruling out the T series?
3000T takes my vote.
me too!:)
-
is there no way to do a vote on here, and are you ruling out the T series?
3000T takes my vote.
Yeah cos those are so common in working shape for a reasonable price :rolleyes:
:D
-
matt3k
Its cool man I'm just tired of amiga hoarders who dont use the gear and just collect, when people out there coming back to amiga or need rare hw for projects cant get the stuff.. this is a real problem nowadays.. why have 2x this 3x that? silly
+1!
-
@matt3k
Thank you! :-)
@save
I agree, the cap leakage is a bummer. A few years ago, I bought some A600 boards that were so bad, a number of traces had simply disintegrated. Sadly it often goes unnoticed, they usually still work long after the electrolyte has been eating away at the board. :-/
I think they went cheap on some parts towards the end. I've seen one early A4K board with Panasonics, not surprisingly they hadn't leaked.