Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: runequester on April 08, 2011, 11:38:49 PM
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Pipedream obviously, but figured it;d be worth a talk anyways :)
The question is pretty obvious.
EDIT: Left out any talk of ARM. You can mentally substitute I guess
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I thought that this kind of thread would be gone :(
NO
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This was done to catch 22 death already.
x86 = a million combinations of hardware. Drivers will never be finished for any x86 version of either. AROS is free anyway.
(answer = no to be clear ;) )
PS can't vote as no "waiting for R-MIGA A1000" option.
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This was done to catch 22 death already.
x86 = a million combinations of hardware. Drivers will never be finished for any x86 version of either. AROS is free anyway.
MorphOS does not support all combinations of Mac PPC hardware but it didn't stop users registering it.
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This poll is to get poinst or what? because is very stupid this question, I buy OS 4 for PPC machines, not for X86, why? because there are Linux, free and ejem currently with more programs than OS4, and other option Windos, well.....
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I would buy both OS4 and MOS for x86 if I could use them on one of the x86 systems I already own. I would not buy a new x86 system for either operating system.
I already have a PPC system that I use every day.
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redfox
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MorphOS does not support all combinations of Mac PPC hardware but it didn't stop users registering it.
The people who own the 1% of all Macs ever made that are supported you mean?
For x86 you will need to spend 1000s of man hours going from PPC to x86.....then send 1000s more creating drivers for a fraction of the 1 million component combinations still in use that equal the x86 'standard'. That's the problem....x86 being a standard is an illusion and the Windows registry file he duct tape holding it together[badly].
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The question isn't whether its realistic. I know its not, and admitted as much above.
The question is if you'd buy it ;)
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I would buy both OS4 and MOS for x86 if I could use them on one of the x86 systems I already own. I would not buy a new x86 system for either operating system.
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redfox
My attitude too, has to be a better OS on the machine I want to use= problem
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I'd buy one or the other, but not necessarily both.
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The question isn't whether its realistic. I know its not, and admitted as much above.
The question is if you'd buy it ;)
I know, so I added the post above relating to x86 OS4 purchase if I could :)
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The question isn't whether its realistic. I know its not, and admitted as much above.
The question is if you'd buy it ;)
For x86 not, for ARM and for PPC yes.
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Whitelisting various models of Intel Macs as they currently do with PPC Macs would be a nice way of releasing MorphOS for x86.
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i would buy both... why not, if it support hw i allready got... :)
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Whitelisting various models of Intel Macs as they currently do with PPC Macs would be a nice way of releasing MorphOS for x86.
I don't bealive in your words, do you spent 110 euros in MorphOS for x86 when for 90 you have a Windows or the best Linux free? OS4 and Morphos are for PPC or ARM systems, systems much better than x86.
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I would only run RISC OS + Acorn Archimedes emulator on ARM CPU.
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This was done to catch 22 death already.
x86 = a million combinations of hardware. Drivers will never be finished for any x86 version of either. AROS is free anyway.
(answer = no to be clear ;) )
Well let's assume a certain specification of hardware shall we? We don't need to support every PC out there, just a subset. This can be done by specifying supported hardware up front, and deviances aren't guaranteed to work.
In this case, how about targeting AMD's forthcoming Llano processor and surrounding platform?
i.e., 2, 3 or 4 x86-64 cores, 160,320 or 400 AMD/ATI Radeon 6xxx series shaders, UVD3 (video decode), AMD/ATI SB9xx southbridge features (USB3, USB2, SATA3, ...).
Anyway, we know that Hyperion won't allow OS4 to touch x86 of any variety with a bargepole. That's why the question is pointless. You would be better off asking about a port to ARM, or a specific ARM SoC (as different SoCs have different hardware). That would interest me. They could take the time to add memory protection to the OS too, and run the legacy non-MP API in a sandbox.
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The people who own the 1% of all Macs ever made that are supported you mean?
It is more than enouhg. There is probably a few million Mac computers which are MorphOS compatible.
For x86 you will need to spend 1000s of man hours going from PPC to x86.....then send 1000s more creating drivers for a fraction of the 1 million component combinations still in use that equal the x86 'standard'.
Why? You can limit your support to certain brand of computers.
That's the problem....x86 being a standard is an illusion and the Windows registry file he duct tape holding it together[badly].
PPC is the standard then? Oh right, it is so standard that MorphOS boots even on ACube hardware :-)
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This was done to catch 22 death already.
x86 = a million combinations of hardware. Drivers will never be finished for any x86 version of either. AROS is free anyway.
Drivers will never be finished for any PPC version of the former, either...
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Meh, no. I like the Amiga OS because it's a coherent part of a whole hardware + software system, and the hardware is interesting to play with. x86 PC hardware, whatever its other merits, hasn't really been interesting since the 486 era. When I'm on x86, I'll go with one of the established x86 OSes; when I'm on the Amiga, I'll go with Kickstart 3.1.
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For x86 not, for ARM and for PPC yes.
My opinion too. Therefore I voted to wait for the Amitendo.
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not for me...but hit me with an ARM poll ;)
Actually, I have not used either. So it would be rude to choose.
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My opinion too. Therefore I voted to wait for the Amitendo.
Did we hire you already?
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Did we hire you already?
I'm surprised that Franko hasn't already revealed my secret employment by C=USA.Unfortunately, I already crashed the Bugatti Veyron they gave me.
(http://www.allautosinfo.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Bugatti-Veyron-3.jpg)
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Pancake in CD Rom tray....I wonder....?
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Pancake in CD Rom tray....I wonder....?
Don't you dare tell my insurance agent about that. I'm still waiting for the check.
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x86 = a million combinations of hardware. Drivers will never be finished for any x86 version of either. AROS is free anyway.
This is true. Unfortunately AROS doesn´t suport any hardware I ever used in my life. I tried. Even at work.
So the point is not wheter it supports all hardware.
The point is whether it supports yours.
BTW. The same is true for MorphOS. While I owned about 8 Macs in my life, none of them was on the list. And I always bought the most recent popular models from 2000 to 2008.
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This is true. Unfortunately AROS doesn´t suport any hardware I ever used in my life. I tried. Even at work.
So the point is not wheter it supports all hardware.
The point is whether it supports yours.
BTW. The same is true for MorphOS. While I owned about 8 Macs in my life, none of them was on the list. And I always bought the most recent popular models from 2000 to 2008.
I keep checking AROS occasionally.
Some day, I'll dig around for cheap old hardware from the supported list, and put together a little AROS machine, but for now, it refuses to play nice with my computer.
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I don't bealive in your words, do you spent 110 euros in MorphOS for x86 when for 90 you have a Windows or the best Linux free? OS4 and Morphos are for PPC or ARM systems, systems much better than x86.
Yeah, cos noone ever thought of porting Linux onto PPC and there is no way one could run OSX-Tiger under MOL or even Leopard directly....
Guess what, all my MorphOS capable HW has exactly 1 OS installed.
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The people who own the 1% of all Macs ever made that are supported you mean?
For x86 you will need to spend 1000s of man hours going from PPC to x86.....then send 1000s more creating drivers for a fraction of the 1 million component combinations still in use that equal the x86 'standard'. That's the problem....x86 being a standard is an illusion and the Windows registry file he duct tape holding it together[badly].
You know it's funny. Everybody always brings up the thousands of drivers that would need to be written. I really don't think the situation is that dire. How is supporting one type of motherboard (or chipset) plus one or two types of graphics cards and same thing for sound and whatever else any different than buying the (very) few supported cards for a mediator or G-REX.
You don't have to support them all to make it work and we'd still be able to buy the hardware fairly cheaply given it's X86 hardware; much cheaper than buying the PPC hardware. Even if you only supported one video card, one sound card and one motherboard chipset it would be fine as long as you chose common variants to work with.
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I'd buy MorphOS and torrent Hyperion OS.
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I don't bealive in your words, do you spent 110 euros in MorphOS for x86 when for 90 you have a Windows or the best Linux free? OS4 and Morphos are for PPC or ARM systems, systems much better than x86.
I have no use for Windows but I use Linux, OSX, AROS, BeOS,Haiku and FreeDOS on x86 hardware.
OS4 is a joke compared to MorphOS IMNSHO and neither of them are available for ARM hardware.
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Guess what, all my MorphOS capable HW has exactly 1 OS installed.
NetBSD! :lol:
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I'd buy MorphOS and torrent Hyperion OS.
If OS4 was released for x86 but MorphOS wasn't, then I might be tempted to buy a copy if it was cheap enough.
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If OS4 was released for x86 but MorphOS wasn't, then I might be tempted to buy a copy if it was cheap enough.
I lost all interest in OS 4 when I bought a MorphOS license for my eMac. Of there had been a hw solution for OS 4 for a similar price as what I got that eMac for earlier I probably would have bought an OS 4 license. I can see going for one or the other, would there be any good reason to have both?
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Would people buy MorphOS/OS4 for x86 if they included no backwards support whatsoever for 68K/PPC applications?
Or are we just assuming that it's a given they'd both include some high performance JIT for such things?
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Would people buy MorphOS/OS4 for x86 if they included no backwards support whatsoever for 68K/PPC applications?
Or are we just assuming that it's a given they'd both include some high performance JIT for such things?
I think it's assumed, after all WinUAE on x86 has a great JIT and backwards support for 68K. For PPC they would have to do something like Rossetta.
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For PPC they would have to do something like Rossetta.
A somewhat foolhardy assumption if you ask me. Firstly, despite being a JIT implementation, Rosetta's performance was certainly less than stellar on x86/x64 machines that were significantly more powerful than the class of PPC being emulated. Secondly, who is going to write it?
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I can't think of a single piece of MorphOS software that is both un-maintained and must have.
So PPC emulation is not absolutely necessary as a few endian tweaks to the source and a re-compile would be the most effort needed for most software.
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I can't think of a single piece of MorphOS software that is both un-maintained and must have.
Well, the entire classic version is unmaintained AFAIK, but as we're talking about MorphOS 2.x...
Isn't backwards compatibility with (OS friendly) 68K, PowerUP and WarpOS applications one of the key features of MorphOS? If all that were dropped, what tangible benefits would it have over AROS?
So PPC emulation is not absolutely necessary as a few endian tweaks to the source and a re-compile would be the most effort needed for most software.
I think you are over simplifying it somewhat. A lot of effort was put into optimising areas of the code for the PPC vector unit and while I'm sure there are generic versions of all these, porting the optimised versions to SSE+ is certainly no simple compiler switch change. Just look at the apple developer information pertinent to this.
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Well, perhaps OS4 is a joke, but the people that use it we are more tolerant that the people than use Mor.... because if your words were to the inverse and the Mor.. was the joke in other forum, no, you have an abuse report, but I'm not so reactionary and radical as in the Mor..
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I'd buy OS4 for x86 in a heartbeat. Even if sales only approached, say, BeOS for x86 levels compared to what it brings in now monetarily Hyperion would be drowning in cash (comparatively speaking).
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Well let's assume a certain specification of hardware shall we? We don't need to support every PC out there, just a subset. This can be done by specifying supported hardware up front, and deviances aren't guaranteed to work.
In this case, how about targeting AMD's forthcoming Llano processor and surrounding platform?
i.e., 2, 3 or 4 x86-64 cores, 160,320 or 400 AMD/ATI Radeon 6xxx series shaders, UVD3 (video decode), AMD/ATI SB9xx southbridge features (USB3, USB2, SATA3, ...).
No, and I will stop you right there. Isolating sections of the x86 'standard' people own would be like making a fuel that only runs in 2% of cars on the road. Your example would not cater for 8/9 of my machines....all of which play 1080p video files so not exactly ancient.
This is why Windows needs about 1gb of drivers on DVDs, and that humongous registry file.