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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: Opus on April 02, 2011, 05:24:59 PM

Title: C= A3000T no video from db15
Post by: Opus on April 02, 2011, 05:24:59 PM
my C= 3000T has a problem (maybe more than one).  I can't seem to get a signal from the video db15 connector, I do get video from the larger db connector to my 1084S.  I am aware of the flicker fixer switch, which seems to do nothing.  Any ideas to resolve this would be greatly appreciated and may even qualify you for a free beer!
Title: Re: C= A3000T no video from db15
Post by: Opus on April 02, 2011, 09:29:23 PM
also thought I'd state I have this monitor, and I know it works on my peecee.  http://www.superwarehouse.com/3G_Technology_19_LCD_Monitor/GM-190B/ps/629408
I have a gvp spectrum I thought died, but I really think I have no signal from the connector as the spectrum uses that jumper...
Title: Re: C= A3000T no video from db15
Post by: VingtTrois on April 02, 2011, 09:39:41 PM
Check Amber!
Title: Re: C= A3000T no video from db15
Post by: mechy on April 02, 2011, 10:01:03 PM
Hi,
  as stated,check the amber chip. Alot of problems can stem from a bad power supply and chips that need reseating. I suggest checking the power supply under load first, if its ok,then tearing it down and reseat every chip.You might also try adjusting on the flicker fixer tuning screw,sometimes these get dirty.

Mike
Title: Re: C= A3000T no video from db15
Post by: Zac67 on April 03, 2011, 09:58:11 AM
If it's not already been cared for: check the battery and remove it if any 'fur' is showing!
Title: Re: C= A3000T no video from db15
Post by: Opus on April 03, 2011, 07:23:08 PM
quick update.  Battery is long gone and area cleaned. Check power?  I will IF "everything works fine BUT the 32kHz output" could be related to a power issue...  I also tried adjusting the pot for the scandoubler to no effect.  if I use a mediator and a voodoo card, is Amber used?  I take it the video comes thru the zorro and might be unaffected by a bad Amber?
Title: Re: C= A3000T no video from db15
Post by: save2600 on April 03, 2011, 07:26:08 PM
Quote from: Opus;627337
I take it the video comes thru the zorro and might be unaffected by a bad Amber?

Correct. Did you try re-seating all the chips nearby yet? Denise and Amber especially. Don't even attempt touching Amber unless you have the proper puller for it. Her socket breaks quite easily  :(
Title: Re: C= A3000T no video from db15
Post by: alexh on April 03, 2011, 09:23:44 PM
It has to be in NTSC mode to produce a picture on most LCD monitors
Title: Re: C= A3000T no video from db15
Post by: Opus on April 04, 2011, 01:38:03 AM
I pressed Amber in, I do not have a puller and will look for a puller when I order a new Amber.  I did press on all socketed chips, so I'm sure I fondled Denise as well.  Alexh: NTSC is only for native modes iirc, which I am getting output to my 1084S.
Title: Re: C= A3000T no video from db15
Post by: alexh on April 04, 2011, 09:08:24 AM
Quote from: Opus;627472
Alexh: NTSC is only for native modes iirc, which I am getting output to my 1084S.
??? It's not a separate RTG graphics card it is a native mode scandoubler. The output is just a scandoubled version of what you're getting on the 23-pin (1084s).

Whatever mode you're in (PAL/NTSC) is what you get on the 15-pin output but with a Horizontal refresh of 31KHz rather than 15KHz.

If you are in a PAL mode the vertical refresh rate will be 50Hz, which is outside the capabilities of most modern monitors. You need to switch to NTSC to get 60Hz before most LCD monitors will work.

I bet money there is nothing wrong with your AMBER chip.
Title: Re: C= A3000T no video from db15
Post by: Tahoe on April 04, 2011, 10:20:00 AM
If possible try and test a CRT VGA monitor. I have seen LOTS of LCD monitors which will not sync down to 31Khz properly. Does the monitor jump on but tell you the signal is out of sync? Then the likely cause will be it does not sync down low enough for the scandoubler to work. Only fix would be is buying an Indivision ECS or trying to source a TFT that will. Although that is becoming harder by the day!!
Title: Re: C= A3000T no video from db15
Post by: alexh on April 04, 2011, 11:45:22 AM
Quote from: Tahoe;627644
I have seen LOTS of LCD monitors which will not sync down to 31Khz properly.
Strange. I've never seen this. I thought every monitor was rated to 31KHz?

I've seen something similar with the software DBL_PAL and DLB_NTSC screen modes (even with CRT) and you can improve it using the VGA monitor driver but I've never seen it with a hardware scandoubler in NTSC mode (60Hz).

Quote from: Tahoe;627644
trying to source a TFT that will. Although that is becoming harder by the day!!
?? All LCD's are TFT aren't they?
Title: Re: C= A3000T no video from db15
Post by: Tahoe on April 04, 2011, 12:45:05 PM
Quote from: alexh;627677
Strange. I've never seen this. I thought every monitor was rated to 31KHz?


In theory, Yes. I have found the problem to be related to most modern LCD's not syncing down to 31.4 Khz, usually they need a fraction higher. The 50/60hz for NTSC/PAL usually isn't a problem.
I have a bucket load of TFT's that won't run under the A3000 native scandoubler, nor older external ones. The Indivision ECS/AGA and Picasso IV work, although the Picasso out-of-the-box won't work unless you up the frequency using PicassoModeTNG.

I have found so far:
HP L1940 won't work
HP L1955 won't work
HP L1520 (oldie) works
Samsung T200 won't work
Hercules Prophet 920 works

Quote from: alexh;627677
?? All LCD's are TFT aren't they?


I meant finding one that sync down to 31.4...
Title: Re: C= A3000T no video from db15
Post by: alexh on April 04, 2011, 01:07:52 PM
Interesting...

For me it has always been the other frequency... the vertical. Most LCD panels are rated to 56Hz vertical and so don't sync to PAL refresh rates.
Title: Re: C= A3000T no video from db15
Post by: Tahoe on April 04, 2011, 01:59:15 PM
Quote from: alexh;627705
Interesting...

For me it has always been the other frequency... the vertical. Most LCD panels are rated to 56Hz vertical and so don't sync to PAL refresh rates.


Interesting indeed, I think I need to look further into this, maybe I am mistaken and it is indeed the horizontal... I'll set the jumpers on my 3000T to NTSC and retry...
Title: Re: C= A3000T no video from db15
Post by: Zac67 on April 05, 2011, 07:27:26 AM
Got three different TFT monitors around here (Samsung, Belinea, NEC) and they all work with 31 kHz 60 Hz scandoubled NTSC. Only one (Samsung 931BF) works with 50 Hz PAL, however.

If you're not fond of changing the jumper you can use the early startup screen to switch temporarily (hold both mouse buttons before powering up, wait for a bit and then hit the space bar).

btw: scandoubled PAL runs on 31.25 kHZ horizontally (15.625 kHz x 2). Standard VGA uses 31.4686 kHz, so a very picky (digital!) monitor could very well have problems with that since a digital monitor has to sync 100% onto the source signal in order to be able to digitize it.
Title: Re: C= A3000T no video from db15
Post by: alexh on April 05, 2011, 07:48:47 AM
Quote from: Zac67;628301
If you're not fond of changing the jumper you can use the early startup screen to switch temporarily (hold both mouse buttons before powering up, wait for a bit and then hit the space bar).

FYI : This is a Kickstart 3.x feature
Title: Re: C= A3000T no video from db15
Post by: Zac67 on April 05, 2011, 06:01:57 PM
Quote from: alexh;628303
FYI : This is a Kickstart 3.x feature


Oops - haven't been using 2.x for 15+ years...
Title: Re: C= A3000T no video from db15
Post by: Opus on April 05, 2011, 11:12:58 PM
update: She's been mine for some time, added things along the way, so I'm fairly certain something has failed.  Jumper is and has been in NTSC which is what I need. As far as power goes, does anyone think power is an issue knowing the machine is booting and outputting to my 1084S? The monitor does not ever get a signal so as to come on, not while adjusting the pot. or flipping the switch back and forth.
Title: Re: C= A3000T no video from db15
Post by: Zac67 on April 06, 2011, 07:29:41 AM
Have you got any equipment for checking signals? Does anything come out of the sync pins (13 & 14)?
Title: Re: C= A3000T no video from db15
Post by: Darrin on April 06, 2011, 07:35:00 AM
Quote from: Tahoe;627718
Interesting indeed, I think I need to look further into this, maybe I am mistaken and it is indeed the horizontal... I'll set the jumpers on my 3000T to NTSC and retry...


Yep, that's why I purchased 2 Viewsonic monitors for my scan doubled miggies as they do 50Hz and will display PAL while others (like Alex said) are 56Hz and will only show NTSC.  This is also why the Indivision promotes PAL modes to 60Hz to avoid this problem.
Title: Re: C= A3000T no video from db15
Post by: Opus on April 06, 2011, 09:17:14 PM
I have a multimeter...
Title: Re: C= A3000T no video from db15
Post by: Opus on April 06, 2011, 09:18:45 PM
Quote from: Zac67;628923
Have you got any equipment for checking signals? Does anything come out of the sync pins (13 & 14)?


I have a multimeter...
Title: Re: C= A3000T no video from db15
Post by: Opus on April 12, 2011, 10:00:49 PM
I hate to admit it, but before kicking me, lemme say I am 1 month out from neck surgery and still in a brace, so I couldn't move things.  I had a friend come over and drag an old, huge crt from my shed and place it by my 3kt.....viola, I have video.  I did replace the Amber before trying, but lcd still doesn't work.  Anyways...now to get my scsi dvd burner installed and then my mediator...thx all!  commence ass kicking