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Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: runequester on March 22, 2011, 04:02:34 PM

Title: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: runequester on March 22, 2011, 04:02:34 PM
So throughout the 80s, PC stuff was wicked expensive compared to buying an amiga. This persisted well into the 90s.

On paper, this should not have been the case. THe amiga was a small niche, ala apple, without multiple vendors competing against each other. By all rights, things should have been reversed.

On top of that, especially mid 80's, PC equipment was pretty meek in its capabilities.


I know amiga upgrades were pricey, but is there something I am missing, or was PC owners just being robbed?
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: Iggy on March 22, 2011, 04:07:55 PM
Consider the cost of the components. Both the 8088 and the 6502 were less than $5.
Yes, both PC and Apple buyers were getting screwed royally.
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: jj on March 22, 2011, 04:14:08 PM
And they wanted to keepp the image of them being powerful business systems.  If it costs more its better, right ?
 
Bettamax was a better format than VHS, but because it was also cheaper than VHS people assumed it was not as good.
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: desiv on March 22, 2011, 04:16:39 PM
I always tell people nowadays it's not worth it to build their own computer from bits, as a new PC won't cost them much/any more..
(Unless they want to have fun, which is why I do it..)

But, back in the day, I always told people to build their own.

You could build a PC back in the day for MUCH less than a complete Compaq or Dell..
The markup for a complete PC was crazy..
A complete PC would set you back $3000, when I got my Amiga 500 with memory (a 512K expander) and a 1084s for $850.
But, I could have "built" that PC for maybe $1200 almost totally from Jameco.  ;-)

desiv
p.s.  All of these numbers are from impressionistic memory that's 20+ years old, so it's 100% accurate!!!!
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: runequester on March 22, 2011, 04:17:08 PM
Quote from: JJ;623772
And they wanted to keepp the image of them being powerful business systems.  If it costs more its better, right ?
 
Bettamax was a better format than VHS, but because it was also cheaper than VHS people assumed it was not as good.

probably off topic, but in the very late 90's, I worked for a while at a school back home for video production. THey still used loads of betamax for their cameras. Only place I've seen them but i thought it was neat
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: Iggy on March 22, 2011, 04:18:02 PM
Quote from: JJ;623772
And they wanted to keepp the image of them being powerful business systems.  If it costs more its better, right ?
 
Bettamax was a better format than VHS, but because it was also cheaper than VHS people assumed it was not as good.

SuperBetamax was really cool. I used to use the sound (w/o picture) inputs to record HD audio.
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: dammy on March 22, 2011, 04:21:01 PM
Quote from: runequester;623767
So throughout the 80s, PC stuff was wicked expensive compared to buying an amiga. This persisted well into the 90s.

On paper, this should not have been the case. THe amiga was a small niche, ala apple, without multiple vendors competing against each other. By all rights, things should have been reversed.

On top of that, especially mid 80's, PC equipment was pretty meek in its capabilities.


I know amiga upgrades were pricey, but is there something I am missing, or was PC owners just being robbed?


Basically yes, they were getting robbed since you had Intel dominating over sucky Cyrix CPUs.  Once Intel had real competition from AMD and the GPU market went into aggressive competition with the upstart nVidia kicking some butt, the costs of computers dropped as the market exploded in size.  Even more so now that ARM is making a dent in the CPU market that was once dominated by Intel.
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: dammy on March 22, 2011, 04:25:16 PM
Quote from: desiv;623774
I always tell people nowadays it's not worth it to build their own computer from bits, as a new PC won't cost them much/any more..
(Unless they want to have fun, which is why I do it..)


Unless of course you like your computer case.  I like the cases I buy so if something breaks, it's upgrade time. ;)
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: persia on March 22, 2011, 04:34:10 PM
I'm beginning to think that the Australian computer market is unique.  Custom built desktops still out number brand names.  But with notebooks and tablets taking centre stage the inevitable closing of the small shops has begun....
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: save2600 on March 22, 2011, 04:48:07 PM
Mid 80's PC's were a total joke. So were those overpriced 9" black and white Mac's. blech.

I sold PC's throughout the late 80's<>mid 2000's and if my memory isn't too borked, in '90, the most popular system we had at Wards was a $2k-$3k "multi-media" Packard Bell that had a 286 in it. The 386 machines were a couple grand more. We did have $6k-$8k computers back in '90, so I bet those were 486's, or really high end jam packed 386's? By the early to mid 90's, I know the 486 machines had come down big time. Seems to me, you could get a complete 486 based 'puter for around $1.5-$2k then. Retail that is. I had a good pulse on closeouts, discontinued product, customer returns and that kind of stuff, so I do remember purchasing a 486 DX2 (around '94) w/ CD, sound card, VGA monitor, etc. for about $600-ish. That ended up replacing my Amiga 1200 for more "serious" stuff by the mid 90's - DOH!

But to answer the OP's question... yes, PC owners were being raped HARD during those times. At Wards by the early 90's, we finally did get A500's in to sell. I volunteered to set 'em up, maintained 'em, brought demos, games, etc. to work. I was *the* 'go to' Amiga guy at that store in Niles for a while there and I *did* try in ernest to sell a sub $1k Amiga system vs. a $2k-$3k PeeCee back in the day. Believe me, I did a helluva job trying - and succeeded at times. But people, being of herd mentality sound, mind and body, wouldn't listen. It also sickened me when dolts would return their Amiga, claiming there was no software for it or that it didn't run IBM shit. ARGGHH! You think I didn't make ALL of that very clear during the qualifying/selling process?!?  You think I didn't print them out a friggin' homemade Amiga itinerary, listing ALL of the places nearby that sold hardware and software for it?!? Soooooo glad to be out of retail right now!   :lol:
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: LordSpunky on March 22, 2011, 04:52:34 PM
Quote from: desiv;623774
I always tell people nowadays it's not worth it to build their own computer from bits, as a new PC won't cost them much/any more..
(Unless they want to have fun, which is why I do it..)

But, back in the day, I always told people to build their own.

You could build a PC back in the day for MUCH less than a complete Compaq or Dell..
The markup for a complete PC was crazy..
A complete PC would set you back $3000, when I got my Amiga 500 with memory (a 512K expander) and a 1084s for $850.
But, I could have "built" that PC for maybe $1200 almost totally from Jameco.  ;-)

desiv
p.s.  All of these numbers are from impressionistic memory that's 20+ years old, so it's 100% accurate!!!!

I agree from a '98 - '05 perspective, even then - late 90's it was still cheaper to build your own PC.......my first PC I was suckered by Packard Bell, I knew little and ended up paying £1200 ish for a Cyrix! While if I had built my own [Knowledge wasn't there then] it would have been better for cheaper! Amiga had gone then, but when I bought my Escom A1200 in '97 it was £100 clearance! You couldn't buy a PC for that!

I've built computers for most of my family, and now when it comes to upgrade time I tell them the same, go to Tesco, and buy one out the box for £300 / £400 because I couldn't build that spec for that! [With genuine OS etc.....]
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: motrucker on March 22, 2011, 05:24:25 PM
Lets not forget Apple prices ether. You think Mac prices were fair? They made IBM type machines look like a real bargain!
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: LordSpunky on March 22, 2011, 05:38:17 PM
Quote from: motrucker;623801
Lets not forget Apple prices ether. You think Mac prices were fair? They made IBM type machines look like a real bargain!

VERY true......and I've fallen for it too....owning a year old iMac.....that I could have bought ten PC's for the price I paid........
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: persia on March 22, 2011, 05:48:02 PM
Where do you buy your PCs?  I could easily sell a lot of PCs priced at 10% of an iMac!

Quote from: LordSpunky;623815
VERY true......and I've fallen for it too....owning a year old iMac.....that I could have bought ten PC's for the price I paid........
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: Franko on March 22, 2011, 05:51:32 PM
Quote from: runequester;623767
I know amiga upgrades were pricey, but is there something I am missing, or was PC owners just being robbed?


No... they weren't getting robbed they were just folk that were too dumb to realise the Amiga was the better machine and deserved to be ripped off... :D
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: Nlandas on March 22, 2011, 05:53:18 PM
I don't know, you can still get more bang for your buck building your own. Especially, if you buy a really good case and other components and reuse them as you replace your mobo/proc/video every 2 years like me.   8^D

Quote from: desiv;623774
I always tell people nowadays it's not worth it to build their own computer from bits, as a new PC won't cost them much/any more..
(Unless they want to have fun, which is why I do it..)

But, back in the day, I always told people to build their own.

You could build a PC back in the day for MUCH less than a complete Compaq or Dell..
The markup for a complete PC was crazy..
A complete PC would set you back $3000, when I got my Amiga 500 with memory (a 512K expander) and a 1084s for $850.
But, I could have "built" that PC for maybe $1200 almost totally from Jameco.  ;-)

desiv
p.s.  All of these numbers are from impressionistic memory that's 20+ years old, so it's 100% accurate!!!!
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: Speelgoedmannetje on March 22, 2011, 06:22:03 PM
Quote from: Franko;623823
No... they weren't getting robbed they were just folk that were too dumb to realise the Amiga was the better machine and deserved to be ripped off... :D
I don't think Joe Average bought a PC anyway in the 80s, rather just your 8bit Commodore, ZX Spectrum or MSX. IBM came from the business/server market and had the business know-how and software. Ergo, the business was screwed big time in the 80s yes.
Likewise the Mac, but then on the graphic department.
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: Lurch on March 22, 2011, 06:22:30 PM
Quote from: desiv;623774
I always tell people nowadays it's not worth it to build their own computer from bits, as a new PC won't cost them much/any more..
(Unless they want to have fun, which is why I do it..)


LOL This isn't true at all, I can build a PC for $500 NZD. If I wanted the same spec in a pre-built computer it would cost me double that and in some cases 3 times that.

The other side of it is these pre-built machines from Dell, HP etc etc usually have old tech but they're demanding top dollar for it.
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: Speelgoedmannetje on March 22, 2011, 06:32:16 PM
Quote from: desiv;623774
I always tell people nowadays it's not worth it to build their own computer from bits, as a new PC won't cost them much/any more..
It depends. If you pick your parts over the internet well you can still save AT LEAST $200 (with Windows, add ~$100 without).
And I've noticed that a manufacturer like HP STILL preinstall those hellish 'goodies' which thoroughly cripple the pc.
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: Speelgoedmannetje on March 22, 2011, 06:38:35 PM
Quote from: Lurch;623835
LOL This isn't true at all, I can build a PC for $500 NZD. If I wanted the same spec in a pre-built computer it would cost me double that and in some cases 3 times that.

The other side of it is these pre-built machines from Dell, HP etc etc usually have old tech but they're demanding top dollar for it.
I don't know the prices of Dell and HP machines, but the price of 'nameless' pre-built machines aren't that unreasonable. Still overpriced and underpowered though.
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: runequester on March 22, 2011, 07:03:32 PM
My current PC was 300 dollars at fry's electronics. 2.something ghz dual core, 4 gigs of RAM, G100 graphics. Not a power house nowadays but it serves just about all my needs, and when shipping costs are factored in, I doubt I'd have saved much doing it part for part.
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: save2600 on March 22, 2011, 07:04:11 PM
Quote from: LordSpunky;623815
VERY true......and I've fallen for it too....owning a year old iMac.....that I could have bought ten PC's for the price I paid........


And you'll go through 10 PC's in the time you'll be enjoying your iMac  ;)

My main system is still a G5 iMac. Absolutely no logical reason to replace it yet. Runs everything perfectly fine. Well, 'cept some of this Adobe shit is a little slow to load, but I try to stay away from their stuff as much as I can anyway.
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: LordSpunky on March 22, 2011, 07:57:28 PM
Quote from: save2600;623850
And you'll go through 10 PC's in the time you'll be enjoying your iMac  ;)

My main system is still a G5 iMac. Absolutely no logical reason to replace it yet. Runs everything perfectly fine. Well, 'cept some of this Adobe shit is a little slow to load, but I try to stay away from their stuff as much as I can anyway.

I admit, the iMac is fantastic! 27" of very very clear screen, 8GB's of RAM, Quad Core Intel.......for music, which is why I bought it, it is brilliant! Plug that guitar straight in!.........*drool* only a modern Amiga would better it
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: XDelusion on March 22, 2011, 07:59:13 PM
Is this a trick question?! :)
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: desiv on March 22, 2011, 08:19:11 PM
Quote from: runequester;623849
My current PC was 300 dollars at fry's electronics.

Exactly..  In fact, we get the Fry's ad here every week for fun in the office.  Yes, we buy a newpaper just for the Fry's ad. :roflmao::rtfm: :)
And the prices on those machines (and not just from Fry's) are insane.

Now, it's not top of the line stuff.  It's not a "gaming rig" or anything like that.
But the average person (well, the average person that asks me for advice) is looking for a machine that will browse the Internet and run MS Office acceptably, not play Crysis at 300 frames per second.

True, someone who wants to spend the time an effort can put together a great machine for less money than Dell or HP charges.  But it's not the same now as it was in the 90's.  
Back then, it was much easier for anyone to save a lot building their own.  The margin's are thinner now.

desiv
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: Digiman on March 22, 2011, 09:57:39 PM
Around 94 Commodore had no answer for the £800 PC clones which had Apollo 4040 levels of performance. The problem was the A4000/030 was just overpriced and not suitable and the only other machine sold complete off the shelf was 14mhz A1200 which was sub 286 16mhz performance.

Of course the A1400CD with 28mhz 020, AKIKO, 4MB RAM (ie inc 2MB FAST RAM) and 2x CD-ROM for £599 in a low profile A3000 type case was green lighted for Xmas 1994 launch. This would have helped a lot for sure. Direct competition for 486SX 25mhz PCs

As for PC users getting ripped off, do you remember just how expensive business software was???
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: save2600 on March 22, 2011, 10:01:29 PM
Quote from: Digiman;623888
As for PC users getting ripped off, do you remember just how expensive business software was???

Still is. I know people in the private sector that sell and write proprietary business software. This is still a huge industry. Think POS retail systems and support here. People are still getting gang-raped on software written for and designed for inferior systems that take the piss every chance they get.
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: Khephren on March 22, 2011, 10:05:37 PM
business software £ were so over the top...
A1400CD would not have made a difference, AGA was a lame duck, and everyone knew it by '94. The specs you've mentioned should have been the A1200 ;)
As for £800 PC in '94, I dunno about that. I bought my first PC in '97, a no brand no hope piece of crap. Bloody thing cost me £900. And wasn't the sx25 the past for PC users by '94?
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: ElPolloDiabl on March 23, 2011, 01:19:39 AM
There was a graphics card someone was selling on Ebay made in 1990 it could do 7 million polygons (same as a 1995 TNT2) and he claimed the original price was $30,000 in 1990.
The sure did rip people off and compared to a company like intel with R&D all the money seems to have been squandered.
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: kedawa on March 23, 2011, 01:32:52 AM
People don't mind paying exorbitant prices when they're spending someone else's money, so it's no surprise that computers designed for business use were over priced.
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: Digiman on March 23, 2011, 02:17:00 AM
Quote from: save2600;623891
Still is. I know people in the private sector that sell and write proprietary business software. This is still a huge industry. Think POS retail systems and support here. People are still getting gang-raped on software written for and designed for inferior systems that take the piss every chance they get.


I work in this industry :)
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: Digiman on March 23, 2011, 02:29:42 AM
Quote from: Khephren;623894
business software £ were so over the top...
A1400CD would not have made a difference, AGA was a lame duck, and everyone knew it by '94. The specs you've mentioned should have been the A1200 ;)
As for £800 PC in '94, I dunno about that. I bought my first PC in '97, a no brand no hope piece of crap. Bloody thing cost me £900. And wasn't the sx25 the past for PC users by '94?


Pentium came out just around 94 and cost maybe 2000? I got my 486SX cobbled together no-name 4mb system in Sept 92 for £999+VAT but once you add a half decent CD/SOUNDCARD/VIDEO CARD it becomes expensive. Xmas 95 time sub £1000 PC was still probably 100mhz 486DX4 etc but I was thinking Xmas 93/Jan 94 timescales not Xmas 94.

AGA was good enough that you needed a 50mhz 486 to play arcade games Stardust/Lotus etc same as CD32 versions. Games like TFX though....

A1400CD was what WE all wanted not the slow over spec'd A4000/030. If it had made it out it would have been good for software houses playing with texture mapping at the time too.
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: runequester on March 23, 2011, 03:35:43 AM
Our first PC was a piece of shit and cost around 1100 US dollars equivalent in the very late 90's. I remember being disappointed that things didn't look much better than my 1200 and sounded worse.

We've had the AGA discussion before.
I still don't really buy it much really.
Yeah, 256 colour workbench was pokey. For applications, it seemed to work well enough, and you needed an expensive machine to do something comparable to HAM modes.

People point to doom on a cheap 030 and say AGA wasn't strong enough, but they are usually comparing to Doom running on a 486 or pentium. THat has far more impact than AGA vs VGA in my experience.
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: Khephren on March 23, 2011, 04:05:25 PM
@Runequester

I guess what i'm saying is: we were the top dogs chipset wise and price wise with the A500. With AGA we still had the price advantage (for a while) but a decent PC could be decked out to do things faster than we could. It does not matter what you wrap around an Amiga, the chipset is the most important.

"Yeah, 256 colour workbench was pokey. For applications, it seemed to work well enough"
True, but as a graphician, you quickly ran out of chip. And it was very slow, and you could not upgrade it.

"but they are usually comparing to Doom running on a 486 or pentium."
Also true. But an A500 could run software comparable (often better) to PC's of it's own era. An A1200 could not. That's why users and devs left in droves. In the A1200 era you could pay more for a decent PC. In the A500 era, you'd pay god knows how much more, and it would still be deficent in many area's.
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: runequester on March 23, 2011, 04:44:36 PM
Thats a good point Khephren.
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: Khephren on March 23, 2011, 04:51:50 PM
..still love my A1200 though! (before the knives come out!)
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: runequester on March 23, 2011, 04:57:40 PM
Quote from: Khephren;624109
..still love my A1200 though! (before the knives come out!)


haha, I'll let you off... for now ;)
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: the_leander on March 23, 2011, 06:33:51 PM
Quote from: runequester;623767
So throughout the 80s, PC stuff was wicked expensive compared to buying an amiga. This persisted well into the 90s.


By 1994 for the price of an 040 A4000 you could pick up a PC that spanked it seven ways from sunday for the same price. Sure, the OS may well have sucked balls compared to AOS, but it got the job done.

I don't know about other markets, but by the time AGA Amigas came out, the market had already made huge strides both in terms of performance and value for money here in the UK to the degree that the Amiga really wasn't relevant any more.

Quote from: runequester;623767

I know amiga upgrades were pricey, but is there something I am missing, or was PC owners just being robbed?


New things cost more, as they become less of a niche the larger market drives costs down. Consider that you can now pick up GSM phones for £7 new in supermarkets here in the UK, to get the same capabilities 10 years ago when pay as you go cell phones first started getting popular you'd be looking at £60+.
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: Khephren on March 23, 2011, 07:35:37 PM
Quote from: the_leander;624116
I don't know about other markets, but by the time AGA Amigas came out, the market had already made huge strides both in terms of performance and value for money here in the UK to the degree that the Amiga really wasn't relevant any more.
.

Well I was here in the UK, and that did not seem to be the case. Everyone I knew who owned Amigas were waiting for AGA, expecting to leap frog the PC again. It was a massive market that only dwindled after AGA, not before. Magazine circulation reflects this as well. I'm pretty sure CU and AF had their biggest circulated figures in the AGA period. I'd like to hear what others in Europe think about the decline. (I know in the US Amiga was never dominant to begin with).
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: lsmart on March 23, 2011, 07:45:14 PM
I think it is funny that so many of us look too much through the boing ball glasses.

How would a PC person describe the time:
"IBMs PC was released about five years before the Amiga. The original Amiga was not as affordable as the A500. When the A500 became popular there were PCs that had harddrives and they were only about 25% more expensive than an Amiga 2000. And while they had yesterdays CPU and only CGA graphics the printouts PC and Mac were generating and the features of the business software were superior to anything you could do with an Amiga.
"So if you actually lived in the 80s and had to use a computer professionally, the PC wasn´t such a bad deal unless you were into Multimedia - which of course nobody had heard of at the time.
"When the 90s came into full swing PCs overtook Amiga in CPU speed, color depth, resolution, mass storage and most importantly CD-ROM support and AOL. While you could do everything on an A1200, it wasn´t a superior machine by any benchmark. Of course the PC had a lousy architecture, a crappy OS and some of the components were regulary failing, but they also came dirt cheap."

It is a perspective. It actually comes down to what you expect to get for your money. The Mac perspective may be:

"The Amiga started out as a Macintosh killer: They had specialized coprocessors that let the machine do incredible gfx & sound and they had copied the Mac system software well enough that you could work with files and folders in an intuitive way, but the applications were mostly toys and constantly crashing. They were pricing the boxes agrssively and sold many of them to children in Europe."
"Amiga tried to ride the DTP wave a few years after the success of the LaserWriter but never really took off. When the 90s were coming they took too long to get the new OS and hardware out of the door so that the competition was able to outsell them even in their main market: computer games."

Well, I know they are both wrong, but if you lived at the time, some of it was hard to argue.
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: the_leander on March 23, 2011, 08:08:23 PM
Quote from: Khephren;624118
Well I was here in the UK, and that did not seem to be the case. Everyone I knew who owned Amigas were waiting for AGA, expecting to leap frog the PC again. It was a massive market that only dwindled after AGA, not before.


I'm not saying it didn't dwindle until after AGA's release and for sure, AGA was much anticipated by everyone within the Amiga scene. But despite the gritted teeth reviews, the fact was to anyone looking at the two platforms on their relative merits, it was blatantly clear the hardware in a PC was more than a match for the 040 A4000 and that was at launch. The 4000T only made the disparities all the clearer.

Quote from: Khephren;624118

 Magazine circulation reflects this as well. I'm pretty sure CU and AF had their biggest circulated figures in the AGA period. I'd like to hear what others in Europe think about the decline. (I know in the US Amiga was never dominant to begin with).


I've no doubt that the biggest circulation happened with the release of the A4000 and especially with the A1200. But at the same time PCs were being introduced into schools as standard, replacing mainstays such as the Acorn Archimedes in the education sector. Amiga was nowhere on the landscape by the time of the release of the CD32 as far as the wider IT industry was concerned.
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: sperrett on March 23, 2011, 08:55:20 PM
But wasn't the Amiga more fun to use? The reason My Amiga is out now is because I bought Med Soundstudio for the PC, and wanted some mods from my Amiga. Instead of just copying those mods, I find myself working on upgrading the old A1200 with a CF card, CD writer etc. and I am just enjoying using it!
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: Khephren on March 23, 2011, 09:37:52 PM
@Sperrett
Course it was, that's why we are all still here ;)

@Ismart

definitely, software is strength, as well as hardware. Business, DTP and MIDI were dominated by other platforms. As a gamer, 3D/2D artist, and someone who liked listening to music on his computer I  felt well catered for on Amiga-and dare I say, in a dominant position for quite a while. no "boing ball glasses" just facts.
   Of course price has lot to do with it too. It took a lot of saving and selling old bits of kit to buy my A500. A Mac or PC were well out of my price range.
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: coldfish on March 24, 2011, 01:57:06 AM
I guess I'm lucky, I missed the price gouging of the late 80's -early 90's.

I didnt get my first PC until about '97ish,  a used 386 for AUD200 with Word.

The first new PC I bought was in about 99-2000 when the prices had come down to sane levels.
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: fishy_fiz on March 24, 2011, 02:26:54 AM
Markups where pretty small from the retailers end, but th actual hardware vendors themselves had much larger markups. That said though by the early-mid 90's prices had started to drop considerably. In '95 I bought my 1st pc, a pentium133 for about $800, with a 4meg virge s3 card, 16 meg ram, an an awe32 soundcard. This was pretty much the dawn of pc gear getting cheap and powerful. Prior to this though the 486's were still price competitie with anything amiga of the day. You really have to go back to the 80's to find a time where the Amiga had any sort of distinct price advantage, although until about 93 there was arguements to be had for the amiga still. Wasnt until about 95 that the amiga was pretty much completely outclassed for all but enthusiasts. Ironically its those same "argements" that make the amiga an enjoyable machine even today.
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: Khephren on March 24, 2011, 02:57:31 AM
i think PC stuff was always cheaper for you guys fishy_fiz. perhaps thats why amigas were never as big in the states as in europe. I remember looking through multi format magazines and shops, and the prices of pc's made my eyes bleed ;)  I'll find some prices in my old ace magazines tommorow (from '88 till '93 i think), you guys stateside can tell me how they compare.
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: Iggy on March 24, 2011, 03:32:15 AM
Quote from: Khephren;624191
i think PC stuff was always cheaper for you guys fishy_fiz. perhaps thats why amigas were never as big in the states as in europe. I remember looking through multi format magazines and shops, and the prices of pc's made my eyes bleed ;)  I'll find some prices in my old ace magazines tommorow (from '88 till '93 i think), you guys stateside can tell me how they compare.

Isn't that still the case? European prices still always seem to be higher than in the US. Then there's VAT adding to the cost.
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: fishy_fiz on March 24, 2011, 03:45:35 AM
@Krephen

Im actually from Australia, so not the best person to ask about US pc prices  ;)
That said though, from things Ive seen others mention about pricing Id have to assume prices can be somewhat different. Also possible that my sense of prices are a little warped as Ive mostly bought my pc gear wholesale prices minus tax until recently.
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: Franko on March 24, 2011, 03:46:11 AM
Quote from: Iggy;624199
Isn't that still the case? European prices still always seem to be higher than in the US. Then there's VAT adding to the cost.


The brother-in-law in Portland Oregon was always telling me to buy this pc or that pc for such and such a price (instead of the mac) till I emailed him the costs of what the ones he recommended were in the UK compared to what he could get them for in the states...

He couldn't believe the difference in prices, anywhere from £100 to £300 dearer here in the UK compared to the prices he told me they were in the USA... :(

Don't you guys in the USA have to pay any kind of VAT or TAX on computers ???
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: stefcep2 on March 24, 2011, 05:22:53 AM
well i bought my first computer about 1995, when second hand Amiga's were plentiful because Commodore just went broke and games were even more plentiful and cost even less, sometimes nothing.  PC's were about $3,000.  My A500, 1084s, two floppy drives plus a gazillion games=$400.

But I remember the A4000 with 25 mhz 68040 6 meg ram and 120 hard drive was about $4000 at the time.(The model number corresponded to the retail price in Australia, yes the A3000 was $3000, and the A2000, $2000) Add a graphics card would add $1200+ to that.  Accelerators like the 68040 warp engine $1700.  The cyberstorm 68060 was about $2500.  32 meg ram $1300.  Says so here in one of my ACAR mags (MVB computers).   Even the salesman at MVB said this was ridiculous pricing.

So I suspect the amiga "console"machines were better priced than the PC, but if you want an Amiga to compete graphically and CPU power wise with a PC, I'd say that Amiga was double the cost of a similar-specced PC.  But that had Win 95- which might have been seen as a negative or positive.
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: AmigaNG on March 24, 2011, 08:04:39 AM
I have to agree looking back 80's and 90's PC really did seem massively over priced when compared to the home computers like Amiga, Atari. I think one thing people forget is that most PC came with very costly CRT Monitors, and Microsoft Software (windows & office)  where as Amiga you could just use the telly and software was a lot cheaper on the Amiga. But still they where over priced.

I think today it is very different and I have to agree again with the fact that building your own PC vs buy a Supermarket or low brand PC its very hard to beat the price, even with OEM equipment (well at least here in the uk) specially when you add the Microsoft Tax. Plus when you factor in the fact that if anything goes wrong with your tech its pull out the part send it back, and fix all the software problems you self where as if you bought it from a supermarket they just give you a full replacement. But it is still fun to build your own PC and you usually end up with higher quality parts than what would be in them cheap PC.
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: Pyromania on March 24, 2011, 08:26:45 AM
Quote from: Franko;624203
The brother-in-law in Portland Oregon was always telling me to buy this pc or that pc for such and such a price (instead of the mac) till I emailed him the costs of what the ones he recommended were in the UK compared to what he could get them for in the states...

He couldn't believe the difference in prices, anywhere from £100 to £300 dearer here in the UK compared to the prices he told me they were in the USA... :(

Don't you guys in the USA have to pay any kind of VAT or TAX on computers ???


Tax yes VAT no, you can avoid paying tax by buying mail order. This only works as long as that business does not have a store in your state.
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: Khephren on March 24, 2011, 03:04:55 PM
I could not find as much info as I would have liked, but here's a sample of PC owners getting screwed (UK)...initially.But you see prices fall massively, while time almost stands still for ST and Amiga users. Then the consoles begin to creep in as well. Nothing from the AGA period i'm afraid. I'm pretty sure some el cheapo amstrad machines could better the PC prices quoted here.

MAY '89-APRIL '90

520 STFM, mouse, game                      £300
520 STFM  mouse, game, col mon          £600
520 STFM  mouse, 21 games, organiser                            $400
A500, mouse                                                               £340
A500 mouse, DPAint2, Word proc, F18, Batman, N.Z story   £370
A2000 40MB HDD    £1300
A3000  030/16 +FPU, 40MB HDD   £2300
A3000 030/25 +FPU, 40MB HDD    £3200
Archimedes  3000  8mhz, 32 bit, 1MB    £650
PC40 286at,SD, 40MB HDD, VGA, col mon   £1500
PC50 386sx, SD, 40MB HDD, VGA,col mon   £2000
PC60 386dx, sd, 80MB HDD, VGA, col mon   £3700

Amstrad 6128 £330
megadrive +pad +1 game £190
PC engine £165
Atari Lynx £160


DEC '91-feb '92

512STE mouse,final fight, sim city, 9 lives, robot monsters, 10 games, productivity pack  £300
1040STE  mouse, 10 games, productivity pack  £400
A500+ 1MB  lemmings, simpsons, capt planet, DPAint3  £370
286sx 16mhz, 2MB ram, 40MB HDD, 1MB VGA,  soundblaster £1233
386sx 25mhz,  2mb ram, 40MB HDD, 1MB VGA  soundblaster £1360
486  33mhz, 8MB RAM, 40MB HDD, 1MB VGA, soundblaster  £2115

megadrive +pad £130
PCengine £140
Atari lynx II £85

First mention of the SNES launch to come.
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: runequester on March 24, 2011, 03:59:19 PM
Quote from: AmigaNG;624219
I have to agree looking back 80's and 90's PC really did seem massively over priced when compared to the home computers like Amiga, Atari. I think one thing people forget is that most PC came with very costly CRT Monitors, and Microsoft Software (windows & office)  where as Amiga you could just use the telly and software was a lot cheaper on the Amiga. But still they where over priced.

I think today it is very different and I have to agree again with the fact that building your own PC vs buy a Supermarket or low brand PC its very hard to beat the price, even with OEM equipment (well at least here in the uk) specially when you add the Microsoft Tax. Plus when you factor in the fact that if anything goes wrong with your tech its pull out the part send it back, and fix all the software problems you self where as if you bought it from a supermarket they just give you a full replacement. But it is still fun to build your own PC and you usually end up with higher quality parts than what would be in them cheap PC.


Cost of software was a big one too. PC software, especially applications seemed to be wicked expensive. I guess thats why people got used to pirating the stuff.
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: Khephren on March 24, 2011, 04:10:06 PM
Yeah, ace magazine recomends you'll pay an extra £10 for PC versions of software. But then again, Amiga software was always £24.99 compared to the ST £19.99. They said it was because the Amiga was rare...but they kept it up even when the Amiga was more popular. Greedy bastards!
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: runequester on March 24, 2011, 04:21:43 PM
Anyone got some price quotes for C64 software at its height?

For decent games or apps I mean.
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: mongo on March 24, 2011, 04:30:29 PM
Quote from: Pyromania;624222
Tax yes VAT no, you can avoid paying tax by buying mail order. This only works as long as that business does not have a store in your state.


VAT is tax.
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: runequester on March 24, 2011, 04:33:11 PM
Quote from: mongo;624304
VAT is tax.


So you mean it doesn't stand for "vague additions to total" ? :lol:
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: DCAmiga on March 24, 2011, 04:46:43 PM
Quote from: Franko;624203

He couldn't believe the difference in prices, anywhere from £100 to £300 dearer here in the UK compared to the prices he told me they were in the USA... :(
 
Don't you guys in the USA have to pay any kind of VAT or TAX on computers ???

Well Franko to answer this, I currently live in the Midwest (Central USA) and the advertised prices are not the price you pay at the register, you have to add on another 8.2% for Tax.
I found this system alittle strange at first since I am from Australia and the price you see advertised is the price you pay at the till (with the Tax already been factored in).
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: Franko on March 24, 2011, 05:21:47 PM
@ Pyro & DCAmiga

That wouldn't work very well here if they tried that in the shops, if folk here got to the checkout only to be told they have to pay an extra x amount on top of the store price the cashier would spend all day put the stuff back on the shelves that the customer had just dumped and walked out... :)

At least your only charged 8%, the bloody Tories have put VAT (Value Added Tax) up to 20% here, friggin rip off so it is... :(
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: save2600 on March 24, 2011, 05:26:24 PM
Quote from: mongo;624304
VAT is tax.

Great example of a word with several meanings. A vat is also something you soak stuff in, such as a fryer. I think of that everytime we get soaked in taxes. So much for one of the largest reasons our country was founded.  :mad:
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: Hattig on March 24, 2011, 06:03:46 PM
I took a look in my old magazines, and in 1984 you could get an 8086 based Advance-86 (but not PC compatible, you had to pay extra for that) for £399. Obviously it wasn't a match for the Amiga, and probably not the Atari ST either, given the 4.77MHz 8086. But neither of these was out then.

Amstrad came out with the PC-1512 in 1986, for £499. This was PC compatible, came with 512KB RAM, and an 8MHz 8086 - and a monitor. This could do 16 colours at 640x200, and it also came with GEM as well as DOS - so more than a match for the Atari ST in many ways. In 1986 this computer was a bargain, at least in the UK.

But as soon as you started looking into 286s, 386s and 486s later on, the prices just rocketed - but the PC started relying on CPU power instead of graphical ability for games, and that brings us to Wolf3D, Doom and Quake, and the rest is history.
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: runequester on March 24, 2011, 07:31:31 PM
Quote from: save2600;624318
Great example of a word with several meanings. A vat is also something you soak stuff in, such as a fryer. I think of that everytime we get soaked in taxes. So much for one of the largest reasons our country was founded.  :mad:


Tax evasion because the Brits had to pay for regular soldiers to defend you lot in the French and Indian wars ? :lol:


Joking aside.. maybe this is a bad tangent but I think most people would prefer to pay what they do now, than to pay the taxes they paid in the 40's and 50's.

Its kind of sad actually, because fundamentally:

We want to get stuff (roads, medicine)
We want to kill foreign people
We want to not pay for the above two
We say we're concerned about the deficit.
We also want to make sure corporations don't have to pay a single dollar.


We can't have all 5 from that list.
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: desiv on March 24, 2011, 07:32:02 PM
Quote from: DCAmiga;624309
... I currently live in the Midwest (Central USA) and the advertised prices are not the price you pay at the register, you have to add on another 8.2% for Tax.

Being from Oregon, it is tempting to gloat as we have no sales tax..

That is, it's tempting, until I look at my property and income tax....  :madashell:

Such is life..

Besides, what's the point of adding taxes to PCs built out of the country?
It's not like we'll end up not being able to compete and have all of our hardware being built elsewhere..  That would be silly..  :confused:

desiv
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: Khephren on March 24, 2011, 07:32:37 PM
Interesting, I new Amstrad had a hand in cheap PC stuff somewhere. I think they even built a megadrive into one.

What graphics and sound did the Advance-86 have? was it CGA?
Same with the 1512, did have a soundcard? and a colour monitor?. quite the bargain if it did. Same rez and colours as a base ST if i'm not mistaken? Expect it was EGA.
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: runequester on March 24, 2011, 07:33:11 PM
Quote from: desiv;624367
Being from Oregon, it is tempting to gloat as we have no sales tax..

That is, it's tempting, until I look at my property and income tax....  :madashell:

Such is life..

Besides, what's the point of adding taxes to PCs built out of the country?
It's not like we'll end up not being able to compete and have all of our hardware being built elsewhere..  That would be silly..  :confused:

desiv


You gotta pay your share, so the people paying a chinese dude 20 cents an hour don't have to ;)
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: Hattig on March 24, 2011, 07:43:03 PM
Quote from: Khephren;624368
Interesting, I new Amstrad had a hand in cheap PC stuff somewhere. I think they even built a megadrive into one.

What graphics and sound did the Advance-86 have? was it CGA?
Same with the 1512, did have a soundcard? and a colour monitor?. quite the bargain if it did. Same rez and colours as a base ST if i'm not mistaken? Expect it was EGA.


The 1640 was EGA. The 1512 appeared to have some custom graphics enhancements that could be used within GEM, but not DOS. Audio was poor though apparently, I guess you could add an ISA sound card. Still, monitor + PC in 1986 for £500 was probably revolutionary - apparently Amstrad got a 25% of the European PC market from this.

I think the Advance-86 was CGA.
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: seer on March 24, 2011, 07:57:11 PM
Quote from: JJ;623772

Bettamax was a better format than VHS, but because it was also cheaper than VHS people assumed it was not as good.


Betamax was more expensive then VHS, VHS won the battle because of;

longer recording time.
cheaper recorders.
more movies available.
sony trying (forcing) to set a standard with beta.
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: the_leander on March 24, 2011, 08:14:36 PM
Quote from: seer;624376
Betamax was more expensive then VHS, VHS won the battle because of;

longer recording time.
cheaper recorders.
more movies available.
sony trying (forcing) to set a standard with beta.


And the fact that porn was available on VHS.
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: seer on March 24, 2011, 08:20:04 PM
Quote from: the_leander;624379
And the fact that porn was available on VHS.


Well, not according to wikipedia tho;

Many theories regarding why Sony's Betamax failed have arisen over the years. One of the more amusing (and false) is that Sony refused to allow pornographic material on their system. A quick perusal of the Betamax library reveals that adult entertainment was readily available. For example, Playboy Industries released their videos in a dual format, both Betamax and VHS, for most of the 1970s and 80s (and can be confirmed with a quick search through eBay's adult section, or other used video markets). Second, the adult industry is too small to have any lasting impact on standards selection. According to Forbes.com, adult video income is approximately $1 billion. "The industry is tiny next to broadcast television ($32.3 billion in 1999), cable television ($45.5 billion), the newspaper business ($27.5 billion), Hollywood ($31 billion), even to professional and educational publishing ($14.8 billion). When one really examines the numbers, the porn industry — while a subject of fascination — is every bit as marginal as it seems at first glance." [4]
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: B00tDisk on March 24, 2011, 08:21:04 PM
I hand-built my first PC (and all since, excepting laptops and most of those I've tinkered with).  I got the money for it by selling off my A1200 030/28 with 4mb RAM and a 60mb HD and a 1084s monitor along with boxes of software.  I think I got around $450 for that.  The deal was a wash: I got a 486/100 with 8mb RAM, a 170mb hard drive, CD-ROM, VGA monitor, 1mb Trident ISA video card, mouse + keyboard.

I jumped because C= USA had died, and there was a slew of great PC games already on the horizon that the Amiga would never have: I have never had interest one in platformers, side-scrollers, etc.

While I can't speak for bang/buck at the time, I also wasn't waiting around for someone to "maybe someday" come up with a Doom-like game or hoping for some miracle whereby C= (Canada, UK, Australia, depending on who you talk to) would save the day.  Or Escom, or VisCorp.

Also?  When I was shopping for parts for the last upgrades I ever did to my Amiga my PC-using g/f at the time stopped me from shopping in AmigaWorld - in 1993 or so the 60mb HD and 4mb SIMM I put in the 1200 were way, way, way more expensive through Amiga retailers.  I got 'em through PC vendors in Computer Shopper and saved probably close to $100 on the deal.  It seems to me there was always an "Amiga Tax" involved in buying from Amiga vendors.
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: B00tDisk on March 24, 2011, 08:25:27 PM
Quote from: seer;624383
Well, not according to wikipedia tho;

Many theories regarding why Sony's Betamax failed have arisen over the years. One of the more amusing (and false) is that Sony refused to allow pornographic material on their system. A quick perusal of the Betamax library reveals that adult entertainment was readily available. For example, Playboy Industries released their videos in a dual format, both Betamax and VHS, for most of the 1970s and 80s (and can be confirmed with a quick search through eBay's adult section, or other used video markets). Second, the adult industry is too small to have any lasting impact on standards selection. According to Forbes.com, adult video income is approximately $1 billion. "The industry is tiny next to broadcast television ($32.3 billion in 1999), cable television ($45.5 billion), the newspaper business ($27.5 billion), Hollywood ($31 billion), even to professional and educational publishing ($14.8 billion). When one really examines the numbers, the porn industry — while a subject of fascination — is every bit as marginal as it seems at first glance." [4]

A few points: One, you can't play cable TV on a VHS or Betamax (to wit, they don't require you run the cable through them and even so there was no standard difference).  Two, newspaper isn't videotape, educational publishing isn't videotape, Hollywood was freaking the fuck out because of videotape and certainly wouldn't wanna be lumped in with figures versus what you can buy on videotape.

Three, they're comparing oranges to wool socks.  The only thing you can compare porno video rentals to are other types of video rentals which at the birth of home video was very little.
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: Speelgoedmannetje on March 24, 2011, 09:44:43 PM
Quote from: seer;624376
Betamax was more expensive then VHS, VHS won the battle because of;

longer recording time.
cheaper recorders.
more movies available.
sony trying (forcing) to set a standard with beta.
VHS won because of porn.
Video 2000 btw was better than both VHS as well as Betamax anyway...
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: Speelgoedmannetje on March 24, 2011, 09:50:17 PM
Quote from: Khephren;624278
I could not find as much info as I would have liked, but here's a sample of PC owners getting screwed (UK)...initially.But you see prices fall massively, while time almost stands still for ST and Amiga users. Then the consoles begin to creep in as well. Nothing from the AGA period i'm afraid. I'm pretty sure some el cheapo amstrad machines could better the PC prices quoted here.

MAY '89-APRIL '90

520 STFM, mouse, game                      £300
520 STFM  mouse, game, col mon          £600
520 STFM  mouse, 21 games, organiser                            $400
A500, mouse                                                               £340
A500 mouse, DPAint2, Word proc, F18, Batman, N.Z story   £370
A2000 40MB HDD    £1300
A3000  030/16 +FPU, 40MB HDD   £2300
A3000 030/25 +FPU, 40MB HDD    £3200
Archimedes  3000  8mhz, 32 bit, 1MB    £650
PC40 286at,SD, 40MB HDD, VGA, col mon   £1500
PC50 386sx, SD, 40MB HDD, VGA,col mon   £2000
PC60 386dx, sd, 80MB HDD, VGA, col mon   £3700

Amstrad 6128 £330
megadrive +pad +1 game £190
PC engine £165
Atari Lynx £160


DEC '91-feb '92

512STE mouse,final fight, sim city, 9 lives, robot monsters, 10 games, productivity pack  £300
1040STE  mouse, 10 games, productivity pack  £400
A500+ 1MB  lemmings, simpsons, capt planet, DPAint3  £370
286sx 16mhz, 2MB ram, 40MB HDD, 1MB VGA,  soundblaster £1233
386sx 25mhz,  2mb ram, 40MB HDD, 1MB VGA  soundblaster £1360
486  33mhz, 8MB RAM, 40MB HDD, 1MB VGA, soundblaster  £2115

megadrive +pad £130
PCengine £140
Atari lynx II £85

First mention of the SNES launch to come.
Compared to the prices of the AtariST and Amiga to the Amstrad, to me it's clear the Amstrad people were ripped off as wel.
-edit- unless.. of course it came with a monitor...
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: Iggy on March 24, 2011, 10:36:55 PM
Quote from: mongo;624304
VAT is tax.

Unlike European nations the US has no national sales taxes like a VAT.
And a few States like my own don't have a State sales tax.
And, as was pointed out earlier, by buying from a company outside your home State you can avoid sales taxes entirely.

Of course we in the US know that a VAT is a tax, we've just been lucky enough to keep our federal government from trying to enact such a tax.
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: Hattig on March 24, 2011, 11:10:15 PM
Quote from: Speelgoedmannetje;624399
Compared to the prices of the AtariST and Amiga to the Amstrad, to me it's clear the Amstrad people were ripped off as wel.
-edit- unless.. of course it came with a monitor...


Yeah, the CPCs came with a monitor.
Title: Re: PC vs amiga pricing in the 80s and 90's. Were PC owners getting screwed?
Post by: smerf on March 25, 2011, 02:50:07 AM
Hi,

I have been with the IBM PC's ever since 1982 when they first came out, seeing that a floppy disk cost about $595 and a 5 meg hard drive cost about $1000 (999.99) I don't think that PC owners where getting ripped off, I think that they were just plain stupid.

smerf