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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: Damiga on March 17, 2011, 09:50:52 AM

Title: Benq XL2410T, Can't handle 15KHz as the specs say
Post by: Damiga on March 17, 2011, 09:50:52 AM
Hi,
 
I just wanted to put the word out that I've tried the Benq XL2410T that according to tech specs should be able to handle 15KHz.
 
I couldn't get it to work, I just got "out of range" message on screen. I used an Amiga->VGA adapter.
 
Worked with Euro72 and Multiscan screen modes though, but almost all LCDs do that I believe.
 
 
That's all folks!
Title: Re: Benq XL2410T, Can't handle 15KHz as the specs say
Post by: Kronos on March 17, 2011, 09:55:19 AM
You might have more luck with NTSC-modes.
Title: Re: Benq XL2410T, Can't handle 15KHz as the specs say
Post by: Damiga on March 17, 2011, 11:16:44 AM
Didn't try that and it's to late now because I returned it to the shop.
 
Even if that did work it still wouldn't be usable for gaming, at least that's what I've read because most games are PAL.
Title: Re: Benq XL2410T, Can't handle 15KHz as the specs say
Post by: Thomas on March 17, 2011, 11:26:17 AM
The German specs say 24 kHz: http://benq.de/products/LCD/index.cfm/page/specifications/product/1223
Title: Re: Benq XL2410T, Can't handle 15KHz as the specs say
Post by: hardlink on March 17, 2011, 03:57:32 PM
Quote from: Damiga;622411
Hi,
I just wanted to put the word out that I've tried the Benq XL2410T that according to tech specs should be able to handle 15KHz.
 


I've been on a decade-long quest for a native 15KHz RGB LCD monitor. Back when that scan range was more common I got a used one that definitely had 15Khz in the specs, but not in the electronics. Since it was used, I couldn't return it, either.
Title: Re: Benq XL2410T, Can't handle 15KHz as the specs say
Post by: Damiga on March 17, 2011, 06:16:35 PM
Quote from: hardlink;622496
I've been on a decade-long quest for a native 15KHz RGB LCD monitor. Back when that scan range was more common I got a used one that definitely had 15Khz in the specs, but not in the electronics. Since it was used, I couldn't return it, either.

Yeah, 15KHz monitors... the Holy grail for Amigans :laughing:
Title: Re: Benq XL2410T, Can't handle 15KHz as the specs say
Post by: Damiga on March 17, 2011, 06:30:21 PM
This might be an option http://www.xgaming.com/downloads/wells-gardner-26-lcd.pdf
 
480$ =)
 
Or this http://www.arcademonitor.com/Arcade-Monitors-for-Sale/19-inch-lcd-arcade-monitor.php ~270$
Title: Re: Benq XL2410T, Can't handle 15KHz as the specs say
Post by: psxphill on March 17, 2011, 08:38:30 PM
Quote from: Damiga;622530
Yeah, 15KHz monitors... the Holy grail for Amigans :laughing:

In europe it's easy, just buy an lcdtv with an rgb scart socket.
Although if you want it to support vga as well without switching inputs it might be harder.
Title: Re: Benq XL2410T, Can't handle 15KHz as the specs say
Post by: Xanxi on March 17, 2011, 08:59:59 PM
Quote from: psxphill;622570
In europe it's easy, just buy an lcdtv with an rgb scart socket.
Although if you want it to support vga as well without switching inputs it might be harder.


Yeah but there is no more LCD TV in 4/3 format. Everything is now 16/9 or 16/10.
Title: Re: Benq XL2410T, Can't handle 15KHz as the specs say
Post by: droopy on December 24, 2011, 05:07:59 AM
I contacted Benq support about the XL2410T and got these specs

Resolution  Pixel clock     H-sync          V-sync         H-sync (unit:pixel)  Display (unit:pixel)
480i              13.5         15.734             60               858                          720
576i              13.5         15.625             50               864                          720
640x480p      25.175       31.468           59.94            800                          640

So perhaps the Thread starter had a faulty videoport ? or something else ?

the monitor seems to support both ntsc and pal tv modes..
Title: Re: Benq XL2410T, Can't handle 15KHz as the specs say
Post by: freqmax on December 24, 2011, 06:52:56 AM
Many monitors seems to refuse 15 kHz on VGA port. Thus use CVBS / SCART / Component etc..

Another nasty possible modification can be to replace crystals on the monitor controller board by half such that recognise a 15 kHz vertical sync as a 31 kHz vertical sync..

(if no suitable crystal is found, a D-flip-flop can be used)
Title: Re: Benq XL2410T, Can't handle 15KHz as the specs say
Post by: zipper on December 24, 2011, 08:26:54 AM
I have a visa versa situation - my BenQ FP222W does 15 kHz on Windows against the spec which starts at 24 kHz. But running outside of the spec it may be picky - earlier I just got out of range messages but then something may have been changed on NVidia drivers so now custom screens from 320x200 up do work. But timing might be critical - haven't tested Amiga 15 kHz output.
Title: Re: Benq XL2410T, Can't handle 15KHz as the specs say
Post by: TheDaddy on December 24, 2011, 08:43:14 AM
@Damiga

I have the same monitor, I'll try it and let you know.

It's awesome by the way at 120Hz! ;)

I have it connected to my SAMOS4.1upd4 via aHDMI-DVI cable it looks amazing especially at 1920x1080!

These are the specs here in the U.K.

Horizontal Frequency (Max) KHz   VGA/HDMI: 15kHz ~ 83
DVI-DL: 30 ~ 140
Vertical Frequency (Max)Hz   VGA / HDMI: 24Hz ~ 120
DVI-DL: 56 ~ 120

320x340 (256) don't seem to work :(
Title: Re: Benq XL2410T, Can't handle 15KHz as the specs say
Post by: freqmax on December 24, 2011, 08:58:38 AM
DVI/HDMI offers way more options for frequencies and resolutions.
Title: Re: Benq XL2410T, Can't handle 15KHz as the specs say
Post by: Matt_H on December 24, 2011, 01:53:01 PM
Others here have reported that a 24" Benq works with 15KHz modes - can't recall the precise model. It's in the thread about the Dell SR2320L, though.
Title: Re: Benq XL2410T, Can't handle 15KHz as the specs say
Post by: Gradius on December 25, 2011, 09:44:40 PM
Well, if another BenQ was able to accept 15kHz, it wouldn't be a surprise this one also can, but you need to test in NTSC to be sure.
Title: Re: Benq XL2410T, Can't handle 15KHz as the specs say
Post by: amigakit on December 25, 2011, 10:09:54 PM
My BenQ 2420HD works with my A1200 when used with RGB to VGA converter.  Picture is not great but it is good enough when I switch back to AGA from my Mediators Radeon DVI output. It's a very useful monitor in this respect.
Title: Re: Benq XL2410T, Can't handle 15KHz as the specs say
Post by: RedskullDC on December 26, 2011, 06:13:19 AM
Quote from: amigakit;672886
My BenQ 2420HD works with my A1200 when used with RGB to VGA converter.


*snap*

Keep a BenQ 2420HD here for 15kHz Amiga use.

Also use a SANYO LCD-22VT11DVD , which is a combined 55cm LCD TV + DVD player.
Has a SCART input which works fine with the Amiga in 15kHz modes.
http://www.sanyo.com.au/products/tvs-set-top-boxes/lcd-tvs/lcd22vt11dvd

Cheers,
Red
Title: Re: Benq XL2410T, Can't handle 15KHz as the specs say
Post by: NovaCoder on December 26, 2011, 11:49:19 AM
Quote from: amigakit;672886
My BenQ 2420HD works with my A1200 when used with RGB to VGA converter.  Picture is not great but it is good enough when I switch back to AGA from my Mediators Radeon DVI output. It's a very useful monitor in this respect.


Yeah the 2420HD (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9THF92rvOhQ&feature=g-upl&context=G20a4f20AUAAAAAAACAA) is pretty good with most Amiga modes.
Title: Re: Benq XL2410T, Can't handle 15KHz as the specs say
Post by: TheDaddy on December 26, 2011, 11:57:17 AM
I can't get my Benq XL2410T to display 320 resolutions even though it says it can...weird!
Title: Re: Benq XL2410T, Can't handle 15KHz as the specs say
Post by: Gradius on December 30, 2011, 07:31:33 PM
320x340 is pretty weird resolution anyway.

320x240 or 220 are more common.
Title: Re: Benq XL2410T, Can't handle 15KHz as the specs say
Post by: TheDaddy on December 30, 2011, 08:36:28 PM
I don't understand why this monitor won't support 320x240 and 320x256 even though it says so in the specs...weird! :(

http://benq.co.uk/products/LCD/index.cfm/page/specifications/product/1223
Title: Re: Benq XL2410T, Can't handle 15KHz as the specs say
Post by: Robert Nilsson on February 27, 2012, 11:52:13 AM
Well, this newer model (XL2420T) also claims to handle 15kHz for VGA/HDMI. Anyone tested this one?

http://ftp://ftp.benq.us/Specsheet/LCD/Gaming_Monitor/XL_Series/XL2420T-DM_BQus_Dec2011.pdf

Quite expensive of course, but would be really interesting if it does sync correctly beacause it can also display 4:3. Or perhaps that only applies to DVI inputs...
Title: Re: Benq XL2410T, Can't handle 15KHz as the specs say
Post by: spaceman88 on February 27, 2012, 12:28:36 PM
Quote from: Damiga;622530
Yeah, 15KHz monitors... the Holy grail for Amigans :laughing:


Don't forget about the Dell ST2320L, a current model that supports both PAL and NTSC. It also does 4:3 as well as 16:9. With games, most (but not all) of the European games were also released in NTSC as well, but most of the "pirate" collections only have the PAL versions. In the later days of Amiga software some the publishers stopped making the NTSC versions (shrinking market I guess).
Title: Re: Benq XL2410T, Can't handle 15KHz as the specs say
Post by: runequester on February 27, 2012, 01:16:21 PM
Quote from: spaceman88;681664
Don't forget about the Dell ST2320L, a current model that supports both PAL and NTSC. It also does 4:3 as well as 16:9. With games, most (but not all) of the European games were also released in NTSC as well, but most of the "pirate" collections only have the PAL versions. In the later days of Amiga software some the publishers stopped making the NTSC versions (shrinking market I guess).


Can second this monitor. It's excellent and works flawlessly.
Title: Re: Benq XL2410T, Can't handle 15KHz as the specs say
Post by: Robert Nilsson on February 28, 2012, 08:27:14 AM
Can the ST2320L do 4:3 in all resolutions, or at least the lo-res ones used in games? Another competitor, the BenQ G2420HD, does not do 4:3 for 15kHz modes reportedly:

http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=611243&postcount=18
Title: Re: Benq XL2410T, Can't handle 15KHz as the specs say
Post by: spaceman88 on February 28, 2012, 01:59:53 PM
Quote from: storhemulen;681752
Can the ST2320L do 4:3 in all resolutions, or at least the lo-res ones used in games? Another competitor, the BenQ G2420HD, does not do 4:3 for 15kHz modes reportedly:

http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=611243&postcount=18


I used the 4:3 mode in regular NTSC. I also played with Scala MM400 in PAL mode and I think that was in 4:3 mode as well, but I'm not sure because I was also using the widescreen modes in testing (which look fairly good as well). I'd do a test now, but my amiga is in several pieces doing an upgrade.
Title: Re: Benq XL2410T, Can't handle 15KHz as the specs say
Post by: buzz on February 28, 2012, 02:56:53 PM
Just read a terrible review of that dell monitor - i wonder if there is a newer led backlit monitor that has both good reviews and works on the amiga.
Title: Re: Benq XL2410T, Can't handle 15KHz as the specs say
Post by: TheDaddy on February 28, 2012, 03:15:18 PM
Quote from: TheDaddy;673662
I don't understand why this monitor won't support 320x240 and 320x256 even though it says so in the specs...weird! :(

http://benq.co.uk/products/LCD/index.cfm/page/specifications/product/1223



LOL! The specs have now changed! 16KHz! That is then, now we know why! :)
Title: Re: Benq XL2410T, Can't handle 15KHz as the specs say
Post by: runequester on February 28, 2012, 03:19:36 PM
Quote from: buzz;681773
Just read a terrible review of that dell monitor - i wonder if there is a newer led backlit monitor that has both good reviews and works on the amiga.


Im not a monitor guru or anything but I dont see why it would get bad reviews. Seems perfectly fine to me.
Title: Re: Benq XL2410T, Can't handle 15KHz as the specs say
Post by: buzz on February 28, 2012, 04:55:53 PM
Quote from: runequester;681775
Im not a monitor guru or anything but I dont see why it would get bad reviews. Seems perfectly fine to me.


This is the review http://www.pcmonitors.org/monitor-reviews/dell-st2320l
Title: Re: Benq XL2410T, Can't handle 15KHz as the specs say
Post by: runequester on February 28, 2012, 05:00:01 PM
Fair enough. I don't play PC games really, other than some rogue-likes, and everything moves fine for amiga gaming :)
Title: Re: Benq XL2410T, Can't handle 15KHz as the specs say
Post by: buzz on February 28, 2012, 05:03:19 PM
It wasn't the refresh speed I was so worried about but the other stuff, like the contrast ratio, and colour. I've seen some other reviews that are more positive however. Please could you make some photos with the Amiga in lowres and hires and laced? I've recently had a bunch of 1084's die on me, so need a replacement screen or two.
Title: Re: Benq XL2410T, Can't handle 15KHz as the specs say
Post by: runequester on February 28, 2012, 05:14:56 PM
Quote from: buzz;681787
It wasn't the refresh speed I was so worried about but the other stuff, like the contrast ratio, and colour. I've seen some other reviews that are more positive however. Please could you make some photos with the Amiga in lowres and hires and laced? I've recently had a bunch of 1084's die on me, so need a replacement screen or two.


Once my son takes a nap today sure.

The only thing I have is a crappy cell phone camera but hopefully it'll do the trick :)


And yeah, I had thought about the 1084, but between shipping cost and the fact they are 20+ year old CRT's, I didn't feel it was a viable option.
Title: Re: Benq XL2410T, Can't handle 15KHz as the specs say
Post by: buzz on February 28, 2012, 05:22:39 PM
Quote from: runequester;681788
Once my son takes a nap today sure.

The only thing I have is a crappy cell phone camera but hopefully it'll do the trick :)


And yeah, I had thought about the 1084, but between shipping cost and the fact they are 20+ year old CRT's, I didn't feel it was a viable option.

thanks :)

agreed, they are not - unless you are happy to re-cap them etc, they probably are all terminally ill.

Just to test, I plugged my a500 into my BENQ bl2400pt monitor - and it worked, but not perfectly. some vertical bands visible on solid colour (looked like scaling related.), and wasn't able to switch to 4:3 aspect - although it might be possible to manually resize to that.
Title: Re: Benq XL2410T, Can't handle 15KHz as the specs say
Post by: runequester on February 28, 2012, 05:27:35 PM
Quote from: buzz;681789
thanks :)

agreed, they are not - unless you are happy to re-cap them etc, they probably are all terminally ill.

Just to test, I plugged my a500 into my BENQ bl2400pt monitor - and it worked, but not perfectly. some vertical bands visible on solid colour (looked like scaling related.), and wasn't able to switch to 4:3 aspect - although it might be possible to manually resize to that.

The vertical bands seems to hard to avoid. The 2320 gets it a little bit, the external scan doubler I had before got it worse, and I've seen screenshots of indivisions that produce it too.

Someone said on here he'd managed to fiddle with settings on the 2320 to make them disappear but I couldn't seem to find it.
Title: Re: Benq XL2410T, Can't handle 15KHz as the specs say
Post by: spaceman88 on February 28, 2012, 05:42:37 PM
Quote from: runequester;681791
The vertical bands seems to hard to avoid. The 2320 gets it a little bit, the external scan doubler I had before got it worse, and I've seen screenshots of indivisions that produce it too.

Someone said on here he'd managed to fiddle with settings on the 2320 to make them disappear but I couldn't seem to find it.


It's the "Pixel Clock" adjustment.
Title: Re: Benq XL2410T, Can't handle 15KHz as the specs say
Post by: buzz on February 28, 2012, 05:44:24 PM
ive had a fiddle with my bl2400pt again. Seems impossible to change the aspect ratio (locked). I think the pixel clock setting did improve the lines on this monitor too. Shame the aspect is locked. I'm assuming aspect ratio isnt a problem on the 2320 ? also has anyone tried the st2420l ?
Title: Re: Benq XL2410T, Can't handle 15KHz as the specs say
Post by: runequester on February 28, 2012, 06:19:54 PM
alright, crappy cell phone pictures :)
My phone camera is super grainy so bear that in mind. THe actual image is quite clear.

(http://weaselfierce.webs.com/-%20New%20Folder/2012-02-28_10-10-16.jpg)

In 4:3 mode.

(http://weaselfierce.webs.com/-%20New%20Folder/2012-02-28_10-10-26.jpg)

Close up. You can see the banding here. Adjusting pixel clock didn't help me but I have barely adjusted any settings.

(http://weaselfierce.webs.com/-%20New%20Folder/2012-02-28_10-10-52.jpg)

In the normal "fill" mode.

(http://weaselfierce.webs.com/-%20New%20Folder/2012-02-28_10-11-42.jpg)

Loading up one of the 3 best games ever.

(http://weaselfierce.webs.com/-%20New%20Folder/2012-02-28_10-12-00.jpg)

Another close up

(http://weaselfierce.webs.com/-%20New%20Folder/2012-02-28_10-12-22.jpg)

And the picture in-game. Banding is much less here it seems.

(http://weaselfierce.webs.com/-%20New%20Folder/2012-02-28_10-12-34.jpg)

Way up close.


Hope that helps inform your decisions :)

edit: the keyboard is for my PC. The two are set up next to each other, using the same monitor.
Title: Re: Benq XL2410T, Can't handle 15KHz as the specs say
Post by: buzz on February 28, 2012, 07:42:48 PM
Thanks yeh. Looks decent. I shall have a shop around.