Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga community support ideas => Topic started by: ChaosLord on March 11, 2011, 11:17:48 AM
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Do you live near the Pacific Ocean?
Then Grab your Amigas, get in the car and go inland now!
If your are in USA, it won't hit for several more hours but you need to beat the traffic jams!
I hope you make it.
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Pretty scary in Japan. Tsunami moved up rivers inland. some pretty scary video of cars trying to out run the wall of rubbish.
Aus and northern NZ sound safe.
The Philippines, Indonesia, Papua New Guinea, Hawaii good luck..
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Hmmm... no Tsunami here (not even a NatAmi) but it has been snowing again for the the past two days, what's with all this Global Warming stuff anyway it's ruddy Freezing here and we aint had a summer for the past four years... :(
Reckon they should have called it Global Brass Monkeys to be honest... :)
Just off to sit in the fridge for a wee while and warm up a wee bit... :)
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Reckon they should have called it Global Brass Monkeys to be honest... :)
Just off to sit in the fridge for a wee while and warm up a wee bit... :)
Whatever. In the meantime i'm preparing for it to arrive. They said it should be here in about 6 hours time. This going to be so cool.
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Whatever. In the meantime i'm preparing for it to arrive. They said it should be here in about 6 hours time. This going to be so cool.
I'd like to see you surf this one... ;)
(PS: watch out for that big floating turd... :lol: )
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Sorry to hear about that earth quake. I am myself always lucky to live in a region with least risk of such catastrophys. Those who are coast near in the pacific area take care. And let's all hope that the Japanese culear power plants will stay safe.
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Hah, a true Scot won't be running a fridge when it's cold outside!
Hmmm... no Tsunami here (not even a NatAmi) but it has been snowing again for the the past two days, what's with all this Global Warming stuff anyway it's ruddy Freezing here and we aint had a summer for the past four years... :(
Reckon they should have called it Global Brass Monkeys to be honest... :)
Just off to sit in the fridge for a wee while and warm up a wee bit... :)
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Hah, a true Scot won't be running a fridge when it's cold outside!
I didn't say I had it switched on (think I'm made of money), it's just warmer in there as it's a confined space and you get a good sleep when the air runs out... :)
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They've been evacuating the coast for the last couple of hours. We'll see soon enough :(
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Hawaii getting 8 foot waves right now
scary!
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We're up over 200' looking at the beach here in Lincoln City, Oregon.
We've seen some higher and lower tides than we should be seeing normally.
We've seen some good sized waves, but luckily, that's about it so far.
The Tsunami Warning will last several more hours..
We also have seen people ON THE BEACH... 8-O
No Darwin Awards this time tho..
** Almost a Darwin Award.. Couple in Southern Oregon walking on the beach was caught by a wave and washed out to sea a bit ago. They were rescued... **
desiv
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We're up over 200' looking at the beach here in Lincoln City, Oregon.
We've seen some higher and lower tides than we should be seeing normally.
We've seen some good sized waves, but luckily, that's about it so far.
The Tsunami Warning will last several more hours..
We also have seen people ON THE BEACH... 8-O
No Darwin Awards this time tho..
desiv
No Darwin Awards this time tho..
Haha...Probably newscasters. They have no sense of self preservation.
"Darwin Awards"!
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Any dangers for the vikings in Sweden?
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Hawaii getting 8 foot waves right now
scary!
Surf's up!
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Any dangers for the vikings in Sweden?
I hope you're joking?
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Any dangers for the vikings in Sweden?
yup, I hope you're joking too, true vikings are in Suomi land ! :afro:
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Well, call me a party pooper, but several hundreds of people has died, if not thousands, properties and infrastructure worth billions has been completely wiped out, and you are making jokes?
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Hawaii getting 8 foot waves right now
scary!
8 foot waves are for girls. I regularly surf that at my local :cool:
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..... and you are making jokes?
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=humor+coping+mechanisms
desiv
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1365318/Japan-earthquake-tsunami-The-moment-mother-nature-engulfed-nation.html
Tokyo is still rocking like a cradle. cellular networks still down, probably train lines too (not too sure as I'm home)
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I am terribly sorry for those in japan suffering this tsunami and earthquake. I have been through that myself last year with our dreadfull 8.8 Richter scale earthquake and tsunami.
And now they are evacuating the entire chilean coast. The Tsunami should be here at 11 PM Chilean time and in about 25 minutes in Easter Island.
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geez its horrible what about the atomic plants in japan always said those things bloody unsafe lets pray for amiga brothers in pacfic all people really
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Well, call me a party pooper, but several hundreds of people has died, if not thousands, properties and infrastructure worth billions has been completely wiped out, and you are making jokes?
Ok then... party pooper... :)
Every day in this shithole of a world countless people die from wars, famine, natural disasters, murder, disease, accidents the list goes on and on...
And while all this happens you me and the rest of the world happily go about our everyday lives, gibbering keech on forums, doing our jobs, watching tv, enjoying ourselves etc... etc...
We sit there eating our dinner watching the news tut tuting and saying "oh that awful" and "that's a shame" and then quite happily go and play a silly computer game a few minutes later...
Point is we like to think we care about what ills befall others in this world and pacify our guilty feeling by commenting on it and making a donation to the latest relief effort...
But at the end of the day if we're really honest, unless it affects you or me directly then we don't really care about what happens to others whom we don't know or have ever met...
The proof of this is what are you doing right now as you sit on this forum typing your post and reading stuff about the Amiga and basically leading our lifes as we normally do...
Human beings are the most selfish creatures on the planet and nothing will ever change that so now that you've said your piece and made yourself feel a little better, then get on with life and stop pretending that anything you or I say here will make a difference...
Oh... and welcome to the human race... ;)
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Terrible images from Japan, and one of the nukes is damaged too. :(
The U.S. coast only got their toes wet in comparison to the devastation of Japan.
The proof of this is what are you doing right now as you sit on this forum typing your post and reading stuff about the Amiga and basically leading our lifes as we normally do..
...And I thank the heavens for the opportunity while I grieve helplessly for the victims.
Franko, you're totally ok with me. But some of us have people we care about in Japan and it matters to us. Some times you need to just zip it even if you don't care.
At the same time if it's your own wish... I'll be sure to raise a toast a bit of a ruckus wake with a smile if ever the earth decides to fall upon your fair land.
Plaz
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I'm very sad for seeing places where I've been totally devastated...
...and I'm very sorry for all those people...
:(
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Terrible images from Japan, and one of the nukes is damaged too. :(
The U.S. coast only got their toes wet in comparison to the devastation of Japan.
...And I thank the heavens for the opportunity while I grieve helplessly for the victims.
Franko, you're totally ok with me. But some of us have people we care about in Japan and it matters to us. Some times you need to just zip it even if you don't care.
At the same time if it's your own wish... I'll be sure to raise a toast a bit of a ruckus wake with a smile if ever the earth decides to fall upon your fair land.
Plaz
I've got a cousin there who teaches English and we haven't had any news about him, point is and sorry to be so blunt and honest about it, it's like all the things I mentioned in my post before most folk will pay lip service to it but go on to lead their normal everyday lives and soon enough for the vast majority of the people on this planet it will soon be forgotten until the next disaster happens...
Like it or not it's just a sad fact of life and just human nature...
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Like it or not it's just a sad fact of life and just human nature...
'tis true they're people that stink, just please don't lump in the rest of us so easily.
Plaz
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Hi,
@Franko,
Do you always have to be such a meanie weenie.
I am watching the news on it now, they are handling it just like a sport show, asking people what they think of Japans loss to the earthquake and tsunami.
The people over there have no water, no gas, but they do have electricity and internet, just the things they need in an emergency. This way they can at least talk to the news stations telling the world what they are going through.
Isn't America such a great place. They treat everything just like a sports show.
I really hate to sound like this because the people over there are going to have a very miserable life for the next couple of years as they rebuild. I know because I was in the last San Fran world series earthquake.
Anyhow Franko, I think you are right, people will say what are we joking about? and I say what can we do right now. Send our $2 and go on with our life. Fact is we all have jobs to go to, family to take care of, and we won't really worry about it until it happens to us.
smerf
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Isn't America such a great place. They treat everything just like a sports show.
Typical mistake, equating the media for the rest of us regular folks.
Plaz
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Do you live near the Pacific Ocean?
Then Grab your Amigas, get in the car and go inland now!
If your are in USA, it won't hit for several more hours but you need to beat the traffic jams!
I hope you make it.
@ChaosLord,
I just wanted to throw out a thank you to you for initiating the tsunami post here on A.org.
If not for your post, I would not have known the quake and tsunami had happened till quite some time later in the day. While there was no chance of me being effected up here in the hills, I have family and friends that live in several major fault areas and low lying areas around the pacific rim. Fortunately, it seems they are all fine and now my thoughts are for the people and fellow amiga users who may have been affected.
Once again... Thank you!
Regards,
AmigaEd
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@ChaosLord,
I just wanted to throw out a thank you to you for initiating the tsunami post here on A.org.
If not for your post, I would not have known the quake and tsunami had happened till quite some time later in the day. While there was no chance of me being effected up here in the hills, I have family and friends that live in several major fault areas and low lying areas around the pacific rim. Fortunately, it seems they are all fine and now my thoughts are for the people and fellow amiga users who may have been affected.
Once again... Thank you!
Regards,
AmigaEd
this is the proof that "human race" is far long better than someone thinks.
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Franko:
I understand cynicism of humanity, and there's a lot of reason for it in general. But the truth is there's a sound reason for the human apathy you describe. There is only so much one CAN care about and dedicate resources to for an extended time. If you tried to be sympathetic to every disaster until it was reasonably resolved, nevermind every war, famine, etc., you'd go mad. To say nothing of being drained of all resources; i.e. money, effort, time, etc., in a short time. The fact is, it is not very practical to directly contribute on an individual basis.
But we are not helpless to do anything. We certainly can contribute collectively, as members of our individual countries, with our "small" specialized contributions. This adds up to a most significant national effort that can assist victims, and would not be possible without every individual aggregate contribution to support it. For instance, the U.S. 7th fleet, with their heavy lift capacity, is on their way to assist Japan. That there isn't much we can do as individuals doesn't mean we don't care or have any sympathy.
Ok then... party pooper... :)
Point is we like to think we care about what ills befall others in this world and pacify our guilty feeling by commenting on it and making a donation to the latest relief effort...
But at the end of the day if we're really honest, unless it affects you or me directly then we don't really care about what happens to others whom we don't know or have ever met...
The proof of this is what are you doing right now as you sit on this forum typing your post and reading stuff about the Amiga and basically leading our lifes as we normally do...
Human beings are the most selfish creatures on the planet and nothing will ever change that so now that you've said your piece and made yourself feel a little better, then get on with life and stop pretending that anything you or I say here will make a difference...
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Frankly, right now the thought of core meltdown occurring at possibly more than one nuclear power plant in Japan is what really scares me.
Anyone care to look up the size of the Chernobyl exclusion zone?
The earthquake was frightening. The tsunami was horrifying.
But containment breech at nuclear plants?
God save the people of Japan.
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Human beings are the most selfish creatures on the planet and nothing will ever change that so now that you've said your piece and made yourself feel a little better, then get on with life and stop pretending that anything you or I say here will make a difference...
Franko I'm not totally discounting your sentiments on what people do or not do when others are suffering, but being an emergency worker myself and have been evolved in natural disaster responses near and far I can speak first hand that many people are not sitting idle by and watching as the news is delivered to them on this or any disaster. When Hurricane Katrina hit us in 2005 our deployment team saw many examples of humanity reaching to those who were stricken severely by the devastating storm. Clothes, food, medical attention (doctors working from RV's), showers, you name it. Who needed FEMA, for people like you and me were leading the charge and lending the helping hand of hope.
So, Franko I would like for you to know that goodwill is a live and well and I believe most certainly that goodwill will reach the people of Japan. I also believe that if a disaster hit close to your home that you would extend that same hand of hope to someone who needed it.
To everyone here commenting on this disaster do not feel any guilt for doing so. Donations of any kind are appreciated from those who have lost everything, I know I have seen people cry when given a fresh cup of water and some flipflops to place on their feet. Very very sobering.
The Dawg
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Franko I'm not totally discounting your sentiments on what people do or not do when others are suffering, but being an emergency worker myself and have been evolved in natural disaster responses near and far I can speak first hand that many people are not sitting idle by and watching as the news is delivered to them on this or any disaster. When Hurricane Katrina hit us in 2005 our deployment team saw many examples of humanity reaching to those who were stricken severely by the devastating storm. Clothes, food, medical attention (doctors working from RV's), showers, you name it. Who needed FEMA, for people like you and me were leading the charge and lending the helping hand of hope.
So, Franko I would like for you to know that goodwill is a live and well and I believe most certainly that goodwill will reach the people of Japan. I also believe that if a disaster hit close to your home that you would extend that same hand of hope to someone who needed it.
To everyone here commenting on this disaster do not feel any guilt for doing so. Donations of any kind are appreciated from those who have lost everything, I know I have seen people cry when given a fresh cup of water and some flipflops to place on their feet. Very very sobering.
The Dawg
Thank you. I too suffer from a chronic disappointment in my fellow man. But it is exactly at times like this that I see the words and actions of people like you and it help bolster me in times of such horror.
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Godzilla jokes are out too?
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Godzilla jokes are out too?
Damn right. Godzilla never caused this much damage! Besides you kind of always root for Godzilla.
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What about King Kong? That movie was a disaster! :hammer:
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Godzilla jokes are out too?
Godzilla was originally a metaphor for nuclear destruction, so I guess it'd be in bad taste :)
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What about King Kong? That movie was a disaster! :hammer:
No, Japan was a disaster.
King Kong was yet again another suck ass remake of a 1931 classic.
Freakin Jack Black! What was Peter Jackson thinking?
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Godzilla was originally a metaphor for nuclear destruction, so I guess it'd be in bad taste :)
Again, one is fantasy and the violence and destruction are entertaining, the other is a sequence of horrifying natural disasters and potential nuclear catastrophes.
This shit ain't funny guys. I live near the coast and a nuke plant.
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Again, one is fantasy and the violence and destruction are entertaining, the other is a sequence of horrifying natural disasters and potential nuclear catastrophes.
This shit ain't funny guys. I live near the coast and a nuke plant.
That reminds me, any news from the nuclear plant that is having trouble?
Last I read, they were having issues cooling it, due to power loss, but I dont know if anything is confirmed yet.
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The Japanese government officially declared a Nuclear Emergency for those reactors.
The main cooling was knocked off-line. The backup generators we taken out by the Tsunami, so they are cooling with batteries basically, from what I hear.
They released some radioactive steam from at least one of the reactors to aid in its cooling, but apparently nothing that was too high a level...
If they can manage to get the cooling back under control, they should be OK.
It's not likely to become a Chernobyl, but if they can't get it cooled, it could become a 3-Mile Island type of event.
No, IANANS (I am not a Nuclear Scientist), just been googling today.
desiv
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The Japanese government officially declared a Nuclear Emergency for those reactors.
The main cooling was knocked off-line. The backup generators we taken out by the Tsunami, so they are cooling with batteries basically, from what I hear.
They released some radioactive steam from at least one of the reactors to aid in its cooling, but apparently nothing that was too high a level...
If they can manage to get the cooling back under control, they should be OK.
It's not likely to become a Chernobyl, but if they can't get it cooled, it could become a 3-Mile Island type of event.
No, IANANS (I am not a Nuclear Scientist), just been googling today.
desiv
Basically, if they lose cooling, they've got about one hour. then it very much is like Chernobyl - Core meltdown, containment failure, very ugly.
They're already near the TMI stage - venting radioactive steam, an unknown level of damage inside the containment vessels.
This is a more serious situation than they are letting on.
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I live near the coast and a nuke plant.
Really? That's convenient. The nuke plant could grow you fins and gills and you could just swim away in the event of flooding! :roflmao:
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Really? That's convenient. The nuke plant could grow you fins and gills and you could just swim away in the event of flooding! :roflmao:
You should have been there when I moved to a rental house within the Civil Defense perimeter they set up for people that live close to these plants. My car was malfunctioning the day I was home for the first test the had for the sirens. Damned creeping not knowing if its a test or the plant just blew up.
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or the plant just blew up.
If that were the case and it really was a blow up, you wouldn't be posting here anymore.
Even if there wasn't a nuclear explosion, the amount of rads would have been fatal so close to it.
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Basically, if they lose cooling, they've got about one hour. then it very much is like Chernobyl - Core meltdown, containment failure, very ugly.
No, as that reactor is of a different type.
When Chernobyl went out of control, the reaction accelarated making it into something like a little nuke.
A meltdown in that japanese reactor would "only" leave behind a molten pile of radioactive debris.
So yes Three_Mile_Island again seems more plausible.
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No, as that reactor is of a different type.
When Chernobyl went out of control, the reaction accelarated making it into something like a little nuke.
Actually, that's not the complete story. Although there was a criticality incident at Chernobyl, it was not directly responsible for the main explosion and resulted only in the reactor core being broken up whilst still in containment.
As you may recall, it was an engineering test that resulted in the disaster. The plant operators wanted to see if they could use the residual inertia in the the steam turbines to provide power to the coolant pumps after an emergency shutdown of the reactor core, since without this, they'd be left without active cooling for up to a minute, whilst alternative power was brought on line. The theory was, the coolant pumps could be powered for about 45 seconds from the slowing turbines.
In the experiment, the reactor was not fully shut down but left in a low-power operational state. However, this state was (in hindsight) not stable and a power surge occurred during the experiment. The first explosion was caused by the sudden heating of the core and ruptured some of the control rod channels, which prevented the control rods from being inserted further, resulting in a loss of control over the reactor. The second explosion, seconds later, is believed to have been caused by the criticality incident you refer to. This secondary explosion wrecked the core and separated the materials sufficiently to extinguish the critical state, but everything was still contained at this moment.
However, the big explosion, which ripped the 2000 ton roof off the reactor and vented it to the atmosphere was purely chemical in nature. Hot steam was able to reach the graphite, wherein it was converted into carbon monoxide and hydrogen. The resulting reaction produces 2 moles of gaseous product for every one mole of gaseous reactant (ie the steam) and this sudden jump in internal pressure was enough to lift the containment plate clean off.
The moment this mixture of hot CO and H2 hit the atmosphere, it ignited, the plume sucking more of the reactor content out into the open.
If hot water/steam were able to come into contact with the reactor core at the Japanese installation, a similar explosion would be entirely possible.
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OK, now they got an explosion, be it hydrogen or steam, looks bad. Lots of contamination spreading out.
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@ FireDawg
I take my hat off to folks like your good self who risk life and limb to help save others, unfortunately volunteers like yourself are the minority and most folk tend to ease their conscience by donating a few bucks here and there and quickly forgetting all that has happened once it stops being headline news...
Take the Haiti disaster for example, most folk around the world soon forgot about that once it disappeared from their TV screens and newspapers, and only four weeks ago I watched a report on Sky News where the poorest and worst affected parts of the country have still all this time later not received any official help and are still living in tents with disease & unsanitary conditions and the only help they have yet received are from the voluntary sectors... :(
Also (and this didn't surprise me) more than half of the money promised (almost two thirds to be exact) by governments from all over the world has never been sent, and you wonder where my cynicism comes from... :(
A typical example of the selfishness shown by people occurred when 9/11 happened, I clearly recall as I sat in the pub and everybody watching it on tv, the conversations going from "my god that's terrible" etc... to, "oh great, the yanks wont stand for that, now were gonna have a third world war" when folk realised this was not an accident...
You mention Katrina and how it showed the goodwill of folk in general, when I think of Katrina the thing that sticks in my mind was the looting and intimidation by the scum and the thugs on their fellow man that went on and again the US governments very slow response to help the poorest sections affected...
Take a look at the latest posts in this thread, most are now concerned with a possible nuclear incident happening which they are worried may spread around the globe and effect them. Just another example of how most of humanity only really cares about what happens to themselves and what happens elsewhere in the world to others is only paid lip service and the easing of ones conscience by donating a few quid here and there then going on to lead ones life as if all in the world was right... :(
Cynical about my fellow man, you bet... seen it all before time after time and to be honest in this culture of "looking after number one" I don't even hold out a glimmer of hope of it ever changing, just the opposite in fact and as more and more man made or natural disasters occur more often around the world, mankinds selfishness only gets more & more pronounced... :(
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I guess I must be watch news that doesn't view this as a sports event.
One large fact is that the Japanese are incredibly prepared for quakes. just saw a report by an American in Tokyo who said Everyone in the train station where he first experienced the shaking were Very calm, at first just expecting the train to continue running, watching whatever TV news being broadcast at the station to gain more info and eventually walking home. No panic. Very calm.
Having electricity is important to keep communications alive during rescue procedures. They have very strict building codes, they practice evacuations regularly. And so on.
we should all learn something from that.
They expect problems to come up and they have a list of solutions all ready to implement.
My heart goes out to all those people as I know what it's like to live through a quake. And i also applaud them for their intellect and guts
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One large fact is that the Japanese are incredibly prepared for quakes.
That's one of the reasons I'm more hopeful about the Nuclear Plants situation.
This isn't Russia or even America here (not that I don't have high regard for my own USA.. ), this is Japan.
I think it's likely that they are the best prepared people to handle this type of issue, not just Earthquakes and Tsunami's, but also in dealing with Nuclear issues...
I'd be a bit less optimistic if it happened here.. Could be wrong, but..
When talking about Tsunami here on the Oregon coast, someone asked our State geologist if we were lucky this time. She basically said yes and no.
Yes, because we got the other end of it.
And no, because if it has happened off of our coast (and we have similar subduction plates), we would be in much worse shape than in Japan because we are much less prepared...
desiv
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Very sad day. Mother nature kicks out yet again... 2012??? Who knows but sorrow for all those involved. Lets get our boys out the wars and go help re build this place. Carpe Deim...
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[youtube]HLFbZ0eo1rY[/youtube]
:(
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It seems mother nature has taken the gloves off in the last few years. Even places like Autsralia and New Zealand have been devestated in recent times, possibly the 2 places on the planet touted as the safest in regards to natural disasters (take heed of this, Ive seen a few comments recently that "Im ok, these things dont happen here, I live in a safe area",.... no such thing). Austalia in the last 2 years has suffered both monumental fires, followed by just as epic floods. Both to scales that few countries are capable of sustaining (due to land mass). New Zealand has also seen its fair share of natures force in the last 6 or so months. It seems every few months a disaster of huge proportions is occuring somewhere. These things have always happened since the dawn of time, but the last 3 or so years the anti has been heavily raised. While it's not something I drone on I wouldnt be surprised if we're seeing the beginning of the end of the planet here. That doesnt worry me so much, if nature decides enough is enough then there's no point arguing, but I must admit I do worry about religious zealouts going crazy 'cos of the impending "appocolypse".
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There is some good news here..
In fact, they are saying now that they believe that they are cooling it now:
Officials said late Saturday that leaks of radioactive material from the plant, which began before the explosion, were receding and that a major meltdown was not imminent.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/13/world/asia/13nuclear.html?hp
Of course, it's hard to tell what is actually happening.
But I'm hoping they've gotten past the critical point and the exposure was minimal.
desiv
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@ FireDawg
Cynical about my fellow man, you bet... seen it all before time after time and to be honest in this culture of "looking after number one" I don't even hold out a glimmer of hope of it ever changing, just the opposite in fact and as more and more man made or natural disasters occur more often around the world, mankinds selfishness only gets more & more pronounced... :(
@Franko
Once again, I cannot counter argue your points for there is fact in them. But, I see the world as where there is darkness there is light and not the other way around. Man is and always will be his worst enemy in every facet of his existence, history has shown us that. We could go deep down this rabbit hole and never find our way out, so I will step back one and say that hope is not what others will do, but what you will do when the time comes to act when a call for help is cast your way.
@Iggy
Thanks for the kind words.
The Dawg
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@ Firedawg
Gotta be honest here, I gave up on the human race back in the 80's during the Thatcher era, don't get me wrong I do feel sorry for folk caught up in situations like this but just being honest about it like most others I'll send in my donation not to clear my conscience but just because I can and I want to.
I usually have a tv constantly switched on to Skys 24 hour news channel but earlier today I'd had enough of the non stop "experts" opinions on what is happening, the forced words of MPs, the absurd crazy theme tunes/ jingles & logos that these 24 hour news channels give to such disasters and wars these days and like most folk I'm doing the things that I enjoy and carrying on as normal.
It may sound harsh to some or even that I'm just some ignorant selfish git who couldn't care less about the misfortunes of others and there probably is some truth in that but it's mainly because other than giving yet more money to the latest disaster there is nothing much else I can do as a person. Can't even say a prayer for them as i don't believe in god or religion.
I've seen enough deaths in my lifetime of friends and family and enough disasters to the point where I'm honestly numb in regard to my feelings towards it all, it's like the recent disasters in Australia & New Zealand they have already been forgotten by most in the rest of the world and pushed off the front page and TV screens by this latest one in Japan which at the rate things are going it wont be long before the next one comes along a relegates this one to the realms of history.
Me personally, I live each minute of each day knowing that it could be my last due to my illness and since it was discovered back in 99, it changed my whole outlook on life & death, so now I just lead my life enjoying everything I do and not concerning myself too much with all that is wrong in this world, I help out where I can but I don't pretend (and I'm not saying anyone here is pretending) that any of this has any real effect on me or my lifestyle.
If some disaster were to happen here and affect me personally then most likely survival mode would kick in but to be honest I don't give it much thought and if it happens then it happens, nothing much I can do about it and no point in worrying about it, might as well just get on with my life and enjoy every moment I have left of it.
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Actually, that's not the complete story. Although there was a criticality incident at Chernobyl, it was not directly responsible for the main explosion and resulted only in the reactor core being broken up whilst still in containment.
As you may recall, it was an engineering test that resulted in the disaster. The plant operators wanted to see if they could use the residual inertia in the the steam turbines to provide power to the coolant pumps after an emergency shutdown of the reactor core, since without this, they'd be left without active cooling for up to a minute, whilst alternative power was brought on line. The theory was, the coolant pumps could be powered for about 45 seconds from the slowing turbines.
In the experiment, the reactor was not fully shut down but left in a low-power operational state. However, this state was (in hindsight) not stable and a power surge occurred during the experiment. The first explosion was caused by the sudden heating of the core and ruptured some of the control rod channels, which prevented the control rods from being inserted further, resulting in a loss of control over the reactor. The second explosion, seconds later, is believed to have been caused by the criticality incident you refer to. This secondary explosion wrecked the core and separated the materials sufficiently to extinguish the critical state, but everything was still contained at this moment.
However, the big explosion, which ripped the 2000 ton roof off the reactor and vented it to the atmosphere was purely chemical in nature. Hot steam was able to reach the graphite, wherein it was converted into carbon monoxide and hydrogen. The resulting reaction produces 2 moles of gaseous product for every one mole of gaseous reactant (ie the steam) and this sudden jump in internal pressure was enough to lift the containment plate clean off.
The moment this mixture of hot CO and H2 hit the atmosphere, it ignited, the plume sucking more of the reactor content out into the open.
If hot water/steam were able to come into contact with the reactor core at the Japanese installation, a similar explosion would be entirely possible.
Hi,
@Karlos
WOW!!
Don't know if it is true, but it sure in the heck sounded good.
smerf
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>If hot water/steam were able to come into contact with the reactor core at the Japanese installation, a similar explosion would be entirely possible.
That's not the only potential problem, although that very well could happen. We've never seen a complete core melt down, not even at Chernobyl.
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>...although that very well could happen.
And by that, you mean that it is very unlikely to happen??
If the effort to cool the nuclear fuel inside the reactor fails completely -- a scenario experts who have spoken to CNN say is unlikely --
Do you really think that speculating wildly about unlikely worse outcomes is what's best in this tragedy?
(I realize that here in America, it seems to be something we excel at..)
Speculation is fine, but you probably shouldn't claim things like "very well could happen" when you really don't know...
Just my opinion...
As I've said, IANANS, maybe you are and I'm off base here?
Could be..
desiv
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To everyone here commenting on this disaster do not feel any guilt for doing so. Donations of any kind are appreciated from those who have lost everything, I know I have seen people cry when given a fresh cup of water and some flipflops to place on their feet. Very very sobering.
The Dawg
well said & thanks
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That's one of the reasons I'm more hopeful about the Nuclear Plants situation.
This isn't Russia or even America here (not that I don't have high regard for my own USA.. ), this is Japan.
I think it's likely that they are the best prepared people to handle this type of issue, not just Earthquakes and Tsunami's, but also in dealing with Nuclear issues...
I'd be a bit less optimistic if it happened here.. Could be wrong, but..
When talking about Tsunami here on the Oregon coast, someone asked our State geologist if we were lucky this time. She basically said yes and no.
Yes, because we got the other end of it.
And no, because if it has happened off of our coast (and we have similar subduction plates), we would be in much worse shape than in Japan because we are much less prepared...
desiv
Americans are pathetically unprepared. that's because the corporations have taken over the country and they don't give a crap about anyone but their profits.
let's hope the revolution in Wisconsin inspires the rest of the country to stop this downward spiral
Very sad day. Mother nature kicks out yet again... 2012??? Who knows but sorrow for all those involved. Lets get our boys out the wars and go help re build this place. Carpe Deim...
nature has been doing whatever the heck she wants from the beginning. this is hardly new.
the main difference now is that we KNOW every disaster before, during and after it happens. in every gruesome detail. We can either become fearful and depressed by this or we can rise to the occasion and prepare for them.
The Japanese have used the second method and are Survivors.
and by the way, I completely agree with your point about war. what a stupid, ridiculous waste of time, resources and lives that is. America is in an economic mire because of stupid wars for oil/profit.
we need to save use our energy and resources to help each other live good, useful lives.
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let's hope the revolution in Wisconsin inspires the rest of the country to stop this downward spiral.
Is Wisconsin seceding?! And what does this news mean for the price of cheese?
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"Be the change you want to see" - Ghandi
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I live in Middle America so I am safe.
What's the deal with these bunk media scientist claiming that Global Warming caused the events in Japan?! They did all the research to make this a fact over night hugh?!?!
I swear this new so called scientific age of reason that we are entering into is no more real the the religions of the days of old. Myths built upon myths built upon myths, all used to scare man kind and persuade them into what ever direction they want to go. (Not to say that some myth don't contain a higher esoteric truth, or that God and Natural Law are not real).
If there is a culprit that is damaging the eco system, it is not the humans, it is not nature, or God's natural order, it is the sky scrapers, the factories, the rush rush rush, the crass capitalism, the greed, the misuse and disrespect of Nature, of balance, of God's Natural Law.
Anyhow, a sad situation, and sadder still because these people live's are being used to promote a bogus science which is being used to get people to willing give up their freedoms world wide, and at the same time to justify the motives of greedy capitalists and their poison producing machines, which are the over population problem, not the people. Take away the sky scrapers, golf courses, city zoos, sports bars and the like, and WOW, suddenly large tracts of land are available for plants life and mammal growth.
Remove restrictions imposed upon farmers and suddenly there is food.
They talk about over population and global warming as if things are so bad that I can't go out and have a nice jog in the country (or in town for that matter) without bumping shoulders with a million people, and stepping on a million children.
The webs we weave. Bah!
Well there's my incoherent rant for the day, stick a fork in me.
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I live in Middle America so I am safe.
Haven't you seen deep impact? Idiot :)
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Oh SHIT! I forgot about that, not to mention Children of the Corn. Now I'm most certainly screwed!!! :)
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Haven't you seen deep impact? Idiot :)
And what about tornadoes. Middle America seems to be tornado alley.
As to the Japanese reactor problem. Unlikely events? The damned structure covering the containment and reactor has failed and these are now sitting in the open.
Or did you miss the footage of that remarkable explosion?
While there hasn't been that much leakage (yet), if they don't keep this thing cooled the core will melt. Its not a matter of whats likely or unlikely. It absolutely will occur.
"There is a possibility, we see the possibility of a meltdown," said Toshihiro Bannai, director of the international affairs office of Japan's Nuclear and Industrial Safety, in a telephone interview with CNN from the agency's Tokyo headquarters. "At this point, we have still not confirmed that there is an actual meltdown, but there is a possibility.."
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Oh SHIT! I forgot about that, not to mention Children of the Corn. Now I'm most certainly screwed!!! :)
BTW - What restrictions are placed on farmers? And isn't mono culture unnatural? Farming is a manipulation of the ecological system.
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The local farmers here can explain things better than I can, but one thing that is being done is that the government is paying farmers not to grow in certain cases. They insist that there is an over abundance of produce and what not and that their continued growth of produce will reap bad results, though I forget their exact logic behind that.
Also, a lot of farmers use seeds that have been modified to not produce more seeds once the plant is re-grown, in such cases the farmers are forced to buy theirs seeds from what ever company owns the rights to the genetically modified seeds in the first place (yes the laws have changed, we can now put a patent on life).
For the farmers that grow crops with seeds that can still reproduce, they will be fined if they use those seeds the next year rather than using pre-approved seeds from their seed distributor instead.
Not all farmers are bound by these newly imposed laws, but the majority are. Again I can not explain things to the fullest, but this is the jist of it, and the excuses made are that such laws must be imposed otherwise the farmers will destroy the eco system around them...
Oh and shall I get on about Frankenfoods?
I guess it all comes down to trusting your mechanic.
Though I am a critic of organized religion (another face of politics and people control), I do pay heed to esoteric wisdom sometimes contained in the scripture such religious organizations use such as:
Matthew: 6:25-27 - 25 “Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothes? 26 Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? 27 Can any one of you by worrying add a single hour to your life?
This verse conforms to my native instinct and to the untold history of man kind.
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Well, call me a party pooper, but several hundreds of people has died, if not thousands, properties and infrastructure worth billions has been completely wiped out, and you are making jokes?
I did not know it was that serious since this reporting happened on a tiny forum, but who cares....
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Oh, and the United Nations is also seizing property rights to our Countrie's major national parks. Strange...
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I did not know it was that serious since this reporting happened on a tiny forum, but who cares....
Frankly, I care. Currently Japan is badly F'd up. Where it not for their high state of preparedness many more people would be dead. As itis thousands are missing and unaccounted for.
They have lost a containment building covering a nuclear reactos and its containment dome to a massive hydrogen explosion that resulted from venting steam from the reactor assembly.
This reactor current has NO cooling and the operators have resorted to admitting seawater and introducing boron (which dampen the reaction rate) in an attempt tp cool the reactor. For hydrogen to be produced the reactor has to be over 2200 degrees F.
If the core reaches 4000 degrees it will melt and the 6 inches of steel forming its primary containment will also melt. The molten materials will conbine with the remaining water to set off a greater explosion (than the hydrogen venting caused) spreading radioactive material over a great distance.
One of two things is going to happen here. First, if they restore the cooling, and meltdown has not started, everything will remain contained. Alternately, if he core temperature continues to rise and then nothing can be done to stop the entire reactor and its containment from melting a failing.
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That 2012 thing is a hoax, there is no cosmic alignment at the winter solstice. Plus the Mayan calendar actually ended 300 years ago.
There is a small chance of Earth getting hit by a killer asteroid in 2036 however.
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In the so called "First World Countries" especially the USA & Europe almost two thirds of crops grown are now by various laws and basically government "bribes" are given over to the production of bio fuel crops and crops used for industrial oils & lubricants, it's one of the (if not the) main reasons why food prices are sky high nothing to do with the so called "recession" that we've had...
If you don't believe it look it up on the net or watch many of the recent Discovery channel docs that explains all this or delve deep enough into European Union memos and papers and you will see that your so called "free democratically elected" governments don't give a crap about you or your quality of life...
The only thing they care about is oil, whether crude or grown in a farmers field and for what, money and power, nothing else matters these days not even your lifestyle and the basics of living such as putting food in your families mouths...
Why some folk don't know or realise this, don't ask, best just for me to say, its just another reason why I'm so cynical about the human race... :)
@ Iggy
Why are you so concerned about the chances of these nuclear power stations going into meltdown, if it happens it happens, why worry about it, we've all gotta go sometime, best just to enjoy your Amiga while you can... :)
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ElPolloDiabl: Nice Sig! :)
As for the Mayans, I thought that part of their prediction was that our tools and toys would come to life and destroy us?
If taken as a proverbial statement, then I'm sure it will come true eventually. As for dates...
...who knows. The Gregorian calendar has us all screwed up.
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Anyhow, yes I feel horrible for the people of Japan. I in no way intend to take their suffering lightly, it just pisses me off what the media does with a story. They always take advantage of them and use them for their own cause (yes all main media has 7 major owners total), then paint them selves with an image of humanity and sincerity. Sick sick sick!
Coming generations will learn equality from poverty, and love from woes. - Kahlil Gibran
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Why are you so concerned about the chances of these nuclear power stations going into meltdown, if it happens it happens, why worry about it, we've all gotta go sometime, best just to enjoy your Amiga while you can... :)
Too true. People should not have put so much blind faith in the powers that be in the first place, meaning those plants should have NEVER been built!
Your statement reminds me of a couple more verses from the Bible, well one verse from the oldest of the gospels that ironically did not make it into the Bible probably because it conflicted with the finalised philosophies of the Nicene Creed. (Man, am I ranting like mad today or what?!)
Yeshua says: There was a wealthy person who possessed much money, and he said: I shall utilize my money so that I may sow and reap and replant, to fill my storehouses with fruit so that I lack nothing. This is what he thought in his heart—and that night he died. Whoever has ears, let him hear! - The Gospel of Thomas lection 63 (and echoed about 100 years later in The Gospel of Luke 12:16-21)
I'm sure if Yeshua (Jesus) were alive today, he'd be an Amiga user, and would have said the same thing. ;)
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Well, power production is tricky
Burn fossil fuels and poison the air
Nuclear power which is clean but dangerous
Hydro which is good but requires you live in an area where it is feasible
Solar which is still expensive for the output.
To be fair, nuclear power is generally fine, if you live in the middle of a tectonic plate, ala France
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There are a LOT more power sources than those you just listed. Tons of which are perfectly safe, and tons which have been used (many lost to history) by humans for centuries.
I.E. Those living near large bodies of moving water have been known to use the tides and under water currents as a perpetual machine.
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There are a LOT more power sources than those you just listed. Tons of which are perfectly safe, and tons which have been used (many lost to history) by humans for centuries.
I.E. Those living near large bodies of moving water have been known to use the tides and under water currents as a perpetual machine.
Wouldn't that fall under hydro power ?
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Wouldn't that fall under hydro power ?
No, traditional hydro power usually involves dams (although there are some neat systems near large falls).
The problem with dams is that sediment builds up behind the dam progressively decreasing the depth of the water. Dams also prevent the upstream migration of aquatic animals.
Power systems designed to harness wave and tidal action are only starting to be successfully explored.
You also forgot to mention wind power, natural gas (derived from sources other than crude oil), our still plentiful (although far from clean) coal reserves, cellulosic alcohol, and algal and plant derived oils and alcohol.
@ Franko - Well old sod, I'd prefer to die in my sleep blissfully unaware of my own passing rather the face something painful like death from radiation poisoning or cancer. But I don't think God lets you choose.
BTW - If any of you were watching CNN a few minutes ago you would have heard Bill Nye mention that cesium was detected in the material ejected during the explosion at the one nuke plant in Japan.
For those of you who don't know what that means, cesium is the material used in the control rods of a nuclear plant (it absorbs radioactive particles and slows the reaction rate).
For cesium to be found in the vapor expelled in the hydrogen explosion, some part of the control rods has not just melted, but vaporized.
Further, if the cesium is melting, then the reaction rate will increase.
Remember, we didn't even learn about Chernobyl till weeks after the event. Its only recently become common knowledge that Three Mile Island experience some melting.
It seems likely that some melting is occurring in the reactor in Japan.
As I've mentioned before, should temperatures continue rise the fuel rods and the inner steel containment will melt.
Ever put water into boiling oil?
Well then image the result of combining water and molten, highly radioactive metal.
This accident has already surpassed TMI. This reactor will never be restored and placed back on line.
And it is still possible that a massive explosion will level this reactor and that the molten pool of materials from it will only stop spreading out until it has cooled enough to solidify.
During my childhood this used to be called the "China Syndrome" because no one yet knows how far a reactors slag could spread.
By far though, the spread of radioactive material from the potential explosion will be the worst. We learned that in Belarus. Again, you should all look up information on the Chernobyl Exclusion Zone.
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Well, power production is tricky
Burn fossil fuels and poison the air
Nuclear power which is clean but dangerous
Hydro which is good but requires you live in an area where it is feasible
Solar which is still expensive for the output.
To be fair, nuclear power is generally fine, if you live in the middle of a tectonic plate, ala France
The life expectancy in civilized fossil fuel burning nations goes up in spite of the much hyped poison, the lungs are marvelous filters, and outlast the other organs when not abused, so I call BS on the filthy rich fraudsters behind the green cult, they simply want to tax and regulate the free middle class into oblivion, so their world government faces no resistance. Anybody see Al Gore, or Michael Moore volunteering to shovel the globally warmed snow? They much prefer shovelling cash from throngs of adoring indoctrinated mall rats. I support all alternative energies that don't require up-front taxpayer subsidies, or divert commodity food crops, leading to international chaos and worse.
Your Oregon State University has great designs for very small nuclear power plants,
I just hope somebody has the brains and guts to start building them!
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The life expectancy in civilized fossil fuel burning nations goes up in spite of the much hyped poison, the lungs are marvelous filters, and outlast the other organs when not abused, so I call BS on the filthy rich fraudsters behind the green cult, they simply want to tax and regulate the free middle class into oblivion, so their world government faces no resistance. Anybody see Al Gore, or Michael Moore volunteering to shovel the globally warmed snow? They much prefer shovelling cash from throngs of adoring indoctrinated mall rats. I support all alternative energies that don't require up-front taxpayer subsidies, or divert commodity food crops, leading to international chaos and worse.
Your Oregon State University has great designs for very small nuclear power plants,
I just hope somebody has the brains and guts to start building them!
Actual I think most of your is rubbish, but I have seen the plans for the small reactors you mentioned and they seem quite safe. Especially when compared to a forty year old Japanese reactor that does have the thermo-siphoning back up cooling systems newer plants have (no pumps necessary=safer shutdown).
Nuclear energy can be reasonably safe, but the older plants ARE dangerous.
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At best these disasters will teach us to expect again what has happened before. As there will be very little good news.
It's not 20/20 hindsight anymore to presume or believe a Nuclear power station on the coast facing the "ring of fire" fault line can be made safe by conventional means.
What they could do with a high capacity seawater dam above reactor level now (no need for pumps or electricity).. 20/20 hindsight?
Thoughts and best wishes with the Japanese, and the northern hemisphere.....
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That 2012 thing is a hoax, there is no cosmic alignment at the winter solstice. Plus the Mayan calendar actually ended 300 years ago.
There is a small chance of Earth getting hit by a killer asteroid in 2036 however.
It's not a hoax, It's bullshit. (o:
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The life expectancy in civilized fossil fuel burning nations goes up in spite of the much hyped poison, the lungs are marvelous filters, and outlast the other organs when not abused, so I call BS on the filthy rich fraudsters behind the green cult, they simply want to tax and regulate the free middle class into oblivion, so their world government faces no resistance. Anybody see Al Gore, or Michael Moore volunteering to shovel the globally warmed snow? They much prefer shovelling cash from throngs of adoring indoctrinated mall rats. I support all alternative energies that don't require up-front taxpayer subsidies, or divert commodity food crops, leading to international chaos and worse.
Your Oregon State University has great designs for very small nuclear power plants,
I just hope somebody has the brains and guts to start building them!
You know when you post on these forums, the men in black can track you, right?
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BTW - If any of you were watching CNN a few minutes ago you would have heard Bill Nye mention that cesium was detected in the material ejected during the explosion at the one nuke plant in Japan.
For those of you who don't know what that means, cesium is the material used in the control rods of a nuclear plant (it absorbs radioactive particles and slows the reaction rate).
For cesium to be found in the vapor expelled in the hydrogen explosion, some part of the control rods has not just melted, but vaporized.
Further, if the cesium is melting, then the reaction rate will increase.
Isn't it cadmium that's used in the control rods? IIRC, caesium is one of the longer-lived fission product from uranium. Caesium wouldn't be used in any part of the reactor (unless as a coolant fluid) since it melts at ~28 C and boils at ~671C, so even if it were used, it wouldn't be indicative of a core meltdown.
Radioisiotopes of caesium tend to come from the decay of more immediate fission products such as xenon and iodine. Detecting it now would indicate that it was something rather more serious than merely radioactive steam (containing eg N-16) that was vented and that radioactive iodine/xenon from the core had been vented into the atmosphere. That would explain why the Japanese government is issuing iodine tablets too.
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@ Franko - Well old sod, I'd prefer to die in my sleep blissfully unaware of my own passing rather the face something painful like death from radiation poisoning or cancer. But I don't think God lets you choose.
Oi... I aint that old, I'm only 47 you know... :angry:
Anyway, with all the x-rays and scans I receive each year I'm more radioactive than any Japanese power plant... :eek:
PS: Gawd, don't exist he's just a made up fantasy figure created by ancient man through fear and ignorance at a time when the human race didn't understand the world they lived in... :)
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Well, power production is tricky
Burn fossil fuels and poison the air
Nuclear power which is clean but dangerous
Hydro which is good but requires you live in an area where it is feasible
Solar which is still expensive for the output.
To be fair, nuclear power is generally fine, if you live in the middle of a tectonic plate, ala France
Nuclear power clean? Someone invented a way to cope with nuclear waste when I was asleep tonight?
Just sayin', I know the whole power issue at the moment is damned if you don't, damned if you do...
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You know when you post on these forums, the men in black can track you, right?
I'm pretty sure that Bill McEwen is much too busy running A.Inc to track anyone. :)
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Hi,
@Iggy,
Believe me I think I will hire myself out to the gov't, cause I have plenty of wind power, and after my wind power is used to run the turbines, they can always burn it for steam power.
smerf
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Hi,
@Iggy,
Believe me I think I will hire myself out to the gov't, cause I have plenty of wind power, and after my wind power is used to run the turbines, they can always burn it for steam power.
smerf
;) Maybe we can harvest the methane from all those cow farts that Republicans were blaming for Global Warming until they decided to deny climate change totally.
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Frankly, I care. Currently Japan is badly F'd up. Where it not for their high state of preparedness many more people would be dead. As itis thousands are missing and unaccounted for.
They have lost a containment building covering a nuclear reactos and its containment dome to a massive hydrogen explosion that resulted from venting steam from the reactor assembly.
This reactor current has NO cooling and the operators have resorted to admitting seawater and introducing boron (which dampen the reaction rate) in an attempt tp cool the reactor. For hydrogen to be produced the reactor has to be over 2200 degrees F.
If the core reaches 4000 degrees it will melt and the 6 inches of steel forming its primary containment will also melt. The molten materials will conbine with the remaining water to set off a greater explosion (than the hydrogen venting caused) spreading radioactive material over a great distance.
One of two things is going to happen here. First, if they restore the cooling, and meltdown has not started, everything will remain contained. Alternately, if he core temperature continues to rise and then nothing can be done to stop the entire reactor and its containment from melting a failing.
I meant who cares about me being missinformed, not who cares about this disaster... man I wonder how native English and Americans read posts from europe.. I think this is how the MOS/OS4 war began,. . too many eastern europe/europe people with bad english trying to communicate in polite tone on the web but it ends up insulting each other instead.. lol
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;) Maybe we can harvest the methane from all those cow farts that Republicans were blaming for Global Warming until they decided to deny climate change totally.
Maybe all the cows stopped farting.
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Nuclear power clean? Someone invented a way to cope with nuclear waste when I was asleep tonight?
Just sayin', I know the whole power issue at the moment is damned if you don't, damned if you do...
well, producing it is clean. The waste of course is a concern, that we havent figured out what to do with yet.
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I meant who cares about me being missinformed, not who cares about this disaster... man I wonder how native English and Americans read posts from europe.. I think this is how the MOS/OS4 war began,. . too many eastern europe/europe people with bad english trying to communicate in polite tone on the web but it ends up insulting each other instead.. lol
Actually, you'd be quite right about the interpretation issue. Oddly enough, I find some of the Germans on MorphZone to be better at wording concise sentences in my native language than those I construct myself. But then the Germans have always been obsessed with precision.
Although there was never really a MorphOS/OS4 war. There was/are some hard feelings over statements made by Ben Hermans. Bur I, and I think most MorphOS users, are perfectly willing to see Hyperion join the party.
If Hermans had ever issued an apology on his attacks against the developers of MorphOS (and what, from all I can tell by studying the history of the matter is a completely legitimate legal OS) he might have help mend some of the hard feelings on the part of MorphOS developers.
Why do you think Piru's comments on the X1000 are so limited/terse?
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well, producing it is clean. The waste of course is a concern, that we havent figured out what to do with yet.
There are some solution glimpses about that. But the problem is always that it is cheaper to produce standart radioactive waste than to deal with it.
A few countries, like Rusia, Canada and France have a special kind of reactors, that have been in an experimental state for at least a decade, they are called "Fast Breeding Reactors". They are more expensive than ordinary ones, but they are an interesting path to a solution to the nuclear waste problem.
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There are some solution glimpses about that. But the problem is always that it is cheaper to produce standart radioactive waste than to deal with it.
A few countries, like Rusia, Canada and France have a special kind of reactors, that have been in an experimental state for at least a decade, they are called "Fast Breeding Reactors". They are more expensive than ordinary ones, but they are an interesting path to a solution to the nuclear waste problem.
I'm glad you brought up that, because you're right, there are ways to build reactors that produce far less waste material. And even if these reactors are more expensive, they reduce the cost of on-site storage so the can be competitive.
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Tidal power is not just being explored. It has been in use for centuries along with many other things that we've lost touch with.
It is just that the "white man" is just now getting around to these things. The white man re-invented the printing press, and since he was unlike the many other cultures around him and did not see a threat or forgot the danger in the printed word, ended up running with it, and went on about Man's accomplishments, and how smart and grand he was, how the species was evolving etc. Then went on to write his own version of history which claims that the world was uncivilized until the white man came to redeem it and rescue it from the jungle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbRp7xlhgbo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CV8Xt2VWvc&feature=related
(Yes Obama is "white" too!
Taking credit for many things that he learned or stole off the cultures before him, re-writing history, and re-shaping God (or killing) in his own image (bunk science, reason, and near sited philosophy). How often we forget that most of us only use 10% of our minds, and that most of use put too much emphasis on being clever and calculating and forget about those other elements of our being that make us into full human beings. Also we forget that 80% of us, even our intellectuals are very easily persuaded, hypnotised, and induced into psychological, spiritual, and emotional sleep.
If one will but tune into the History Channel (regardless of how much I don't trust them or any mass media form of education), and watch the show Ancient Aliens, remove the aliens and silly theories and just observe the mysteries before you, you'll begin to quickly get an idea that what we have been educated to be human history, is yet another theory, and many mysteries have (until recently) been rejected by main stream thought because the problems they presented to our current line of thought were too troublesome.
The human race is deeper and capable of more than we may ever know, and we would be nothing if it were not for the mysterious source that created us...
...a source that does not play favorites.
Anyhow, this is not an anti-white rant. Tiny Tim was white, and he ruled my worl!!!
And I do have Irish blood in my veins, I'm pretty pale and pasty, plus my Cherokee ancestors were pretty white them selves (dunno what happened to my Shawnee tan). :)
The point is that historically where ever the white skinned people went, things fell apart and cultures, lives, and history was lost on a large, global scale. As a result, "white" has become synonymous with such mass destruction in my mind and most of the world. Hence the term "The White Man's Burden". For no other race or culture has conquered the planet quite so successfully.
There, now I hope my final explanation saves me from getting stoned at the next Amiga meeting I attend. Then again you are Amiga users...
...though Amiga history is not quite the same as having your history, culture, and ancestors all but wiped out from the earth. It does have certain similiarities none the less, but I won't go into the history of that as you all know it well. :/
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gezz l think your sick person get help 10,000 people dead isint something to laugh about
l though amiga folks here where cynical but thats behond the pale
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You can't have Slaughter without Laughter apparently.
Irony is just some people's way of coping. I don't think anyone here truly thinks it is a laughing matter. I'm sure if many of us were there, we'd be helping, joking or not.
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I've got a cousin there who teaches English and we haven't had any news about him, point is and sorry to be so blunt and honest about it, it's like all the things I mentioned in my post before most folk will pay lip service to it but go on to lead their normal everyday lives and soon enough for the vast majority of the people on this planet it will soon be forgotten until the next disaster happens...
Like it or not it's just a sad fact of life and just human nature...
l iddint pay lip service here in new zealand people get out help other people l donated blood gave a telephone send person food voucher for when the quake happened in christchurch l whould even gone to help but because family had to stay
after the locabie plance thing everone in nz was upset. after distant relitive was killed in
bombing in ireland family here felt for what happened
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Franko I'm not totally discounting your sentiments on what people do or not do when others are suffering, but being an emergency worker myself and have been evolved in natural disaster responses near and far I can speak first hand that many people are not sitting idle by and watching as the news is delivered to them on this or any disaster. When Hurricane Katrina hit us in 2005 our deployment team saw many examples of humanity reaching to those who were stricken severely by the devastating storm. Clothes, food, medical attention (doctors working from RV's), showers, you name it. Who needed FEMA, for people like you and me were leading the charge and lending the helping hand of hope.
So, Franko I would like for you to know that goodwill is a live and well and I believe most certainly that goodwill will reach the people of Japan. I also believe that if a disaster hit close to your home that you would extend that same hand of hope to someone who needed it.
To everyone here commenting on this disaster do not feel any guilt for doing so. Donations of any kind are appreciated from those who have lost everything, I know I have seen people cry when given a fresh cup of water and some flipflops to place on their feet. Very very sobering.
The Dawg
those people and you are amazing usa sent team to Christchurch nz the japanese, chile austrila in all 700 hightly trained search resecue workers even team from mexico
these people are at risk themselves , then and still pulling out bodys in Christchucrh
the New zeland team got in plane went right to japan . these offers help went out right away and teams where on the ground within a day or sooner depending flight time
we have amiga people in these areas in fact just sold amiga 600 to chap in Christchurch
had wait 2 weeks before anwered his email , and he was walking right in city when quake struck. and of this time with 3 nuke power plants on verge and one partial reactor core breach l think this will afeect everone in world somehow.
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Franko is right. For a lot of people, this is just a popular news piece that will soon fade away (once the media and their owners have reaped all the profits and used to story to motivate people towards their own causes) and be forgotten. The only people that will remember are those who were there, those who lost, those who suffered.
The rest of us with just sit here cozy and complacent waxing and waning philosophical like a a bunch of greeks in the bath house. Sighh...
...though I do believe there is that small percent of us who are better and deeper than that.
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Franko is right. For a lot of people, this is just a popular news piece that will soon fade away (once the media and their owners have reaped all the profits and used to story to motivate people towards their own causes) and be forgotten. The only people that will remember are those who were there, those who lost, those who suffered.
The rest of us with just sit here cozy and complacent waxing and waning philosophical like a a bunch of greeks in the bath house. Sighh...
...though I do believe there is that small percent of us who are better and deeper than that.
Frighteningly enough, what you've said is too true. We're a little like people slowing down to get a better view of a highway accident. Safe and secure in our own environment, we can express horror at the calamities that befall others, but we don't have to really face it like those directly experiencing it.
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Is Wisconsin seceding?! And what does this news mean for the price of cheese?
SERIOUSLY??? YOU don't KNOW the so called GOVERNOR of WI has colluded with the Koch bro to destroy the unions?? that means teachers, firefighters, cops, etc - he doesn't want them to have bargaining. That is like going back 100 years when workers were slaves
this has been in the news for weeks now. wake up and smell the coffee
he and other state governors want to get rid of unions all over this country. if that happens the middle class is destroyed.
that is not the country I want to live in, frankly
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I believe this little video I made a few years back sums it all up quite well.
NOTE: Must watch till the very last second. ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIwnIQT1lOA
It's my first attempt, so don't judge to harshly. :)
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I live in Middle America so I am safe.
What's the deal with these bunk media scientist claiming that Global Warming caused the events in Japan?! They did all the research to make this a fact over night hugh?!?!
no one is seriously expressing such a simplistic notion.
I swear this new so called scientific age of reason that we are entering into is no more real the the religions of the days of old. Myths built upon myths built upon myths, all used to scare man kind and persuade them into what ever direction they want to go. (Not to say that some myth don't contain a higher esoteric truth, or that God and Natural Law are not real).
please educate yourself on what science really is and not what religious kooks try to make believe it is.
http://www.xenu.net/archive/baloney_detection.html
science is self-correcting, disciplined and always based on reality not mumbo jumbo.
and it's science that has made lives of many WAY better than it ever has been. i for one do not wish to go back to the days when most people were slaves.
if it wasn't for science you wouldn't be typing your words on a computer to be read by people thousands of miles from you.
science respects reality and the way the universe really IS. and smart people want to work WITH nature to make life for everyone a creative wonderful experience. it IS possible by using one's Brains.
not by wallowing in fantasies.
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Of course! Science is a fact.
It's the idea that people stare into a little box and accept it as truth, and then those unresearched "truths" go on to be embedded into the education system, even though they were never proven as anything more than theory in the first place.
Man is so small in the grand scheme of things.
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SERIOUSLY??? YOU don't KNOW the so called GOVERNOR of WI has colluded with the Koch bro to destroy the unions?? that means teachers, firefighters, cops, etc - he doesn't want them to have bargaining. That is like going back 100 years when workers were slaves
this has been in the news for weeks now. wake up and smell the coffee
he and other state governors want to get rid of unions all over this country. if that happens the middle class is destroyed.
that is not the country I want to live in, frankly
Hey, take it to Fox, or CNN. Whichever you prefer.
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Of course! Science is a fact.
It's the idea that people stare into a little box and accept it as truth, and then those unresearched "truths" go on to be embedded into the education system, even though they were never proven as anything more than theory in the first place.
Man is so small in the grand scheme of things.
BF Skinner was a scientist, US Naval Diver submersion data were culled from the "science" performed German concentration camps, Sarin and VX were invented by scientists.
I kept this line of logic going but I got up to about 100 things scientists have been involved in that no one should be proud of when I realized something.
Science is about facts/truth. But science has no particular conscience. It produces results that aren't always used for good purposes.
And a blind faith in science is the worst hubris possible.
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Of course! Science is a fact.
It's the idea that people stare into a little box and accept it as truth, and then those unresearched "truths" go on to be embedded into the education system, even though they were never proven as anything more than theory in the first place.
Man is so small in the grand scheme of things.
To a great extent yesterday's experts are dismissed by today's and be sure today's will be just as greatly dismissed by tomorrow's. Change means difference/ difference means product / product mean profit.
Understanding that in the presence is wisdom.
Agree; Man (in the context of humanity) is so small in the grand scheme of things.
Especially when he or she is standing and facing muddy debri filled wall 5m high and 5 km wide moving faster then they could ever hope to run.
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Oh jeez, too funny! Ya, I think a big wall of mud, cars, trains, and buildings would make me feel small very quick, and turn all my dogma to dust. ;)
Iggy: guess what my facebook address is?
http://www.facebook.com/#!/TheSkinnerBox
Ya... I'm not a big fan of Mr. Skinner either. All he accomplished was exploiting the base animal aspects of the human mind, and in turn made a whole world believe that that is all there is to us, we are predictable machines who will stop at nothing to acquire sex, comfort, and food.
Though much like the aliens of the reboot of the V TV series, they'll never lock down the mysteries of the "soul".
Two psychologists I really do like would be Carl Gustav Jung, and of course Aldous Huxley who tried to warn us of the down sides of the age of media machines, and to bring awareness to our own gullibility.
Gullibility... a great thing for a tribe or family. It helps keep things simple and care free. It gives us something to laugh at in each other, and can bring us together knowing that we are no better than one another and all capable of folly and error, but...
...when the wolves move in, gullibility can be the worst thing in the world.
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To a great extent yesterday's experts are dismissed by today's and be sure today's will be just as greatly dismissed by tomorrow's. Change means difference/ difference means product / product mean profit.
Understanding that in the presence is wisdom.
Agree; Man (in the context of humanity) is so small in the grand scheme of things.
Especially when he or she is standing and facing muddy debri filled wall 5m high and 5 km wide moving faster then they could ever hope to run.
Oh that is so true. When faced with the laws of physics illustrated by a natural disaster we are little more than naked apes running in terror.
By the way, one of my old college professors used to define expert as "anyone who makes three correct guesses in a row".
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"anyone who makes three correct guesses in a row".
Ha ha ha!!!
Man, I wish I could find it. Brian Eno of the Talking Heads has a great quote about efficiency and reason phasing out the meek, crippled, and needy, but I can't find it for the life of me. :/
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Science is not about morality. Its about testing and examining the world.
That views can change in the light of evidence is a strength, not a weakness.
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What is it with americans. Too much Fox News or something. If you people believe what the idiots that read prompters on the 6 o clock news say you are in trouble! :) I live almost right on Zuma Beach in Malibu, ca this joke of a tsunami was only 3 foot waves. (normal like any other good day of waves on the beach)
The american news media outlets only seek to frighten and terrorize you. It was a hoax
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The american news media outlets only seek to frighten and terrorize you. It was a hoax
Yeah, tell that to the 25 year old in Crescent City man who died after being swept into the ocean.
It didn't hit you very hard. That's good.
It didn't hit us very hard either on the central Oregon Coast.
But it did affect Southern Oregon and Northern California's coast more...
There was quite a bit a damage to some marina's and multiple people were swept out to sea. Luckily I believe there was only the one death on this coast...
Does the media try to scare you? Of course they do...
Does that mean everything they mention is a hoax? Of course not..
desiv
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Of course of course. Science is good, but we must never forget eugenics and what that so called sound proof and logical science brought about.
Likewise we must never forget the mysteries that are shoved in our face time and time again, I.E. a certain deaf pianist who by the age of three were writing great symphonies, or the American soldier who during world war II was bumped on the head, came to, and was speaking an ancient russian dialect that he never had learned before and had not been used in YEARS. Later he passed back out and awoke again speaking English having no memory of waking up before speaking ancient Russian.
Of course I have my own personal experiences that stand firm against the socially accepted norms (well the norms of non-natives of city dwellers), but alas they are personal and can not be proven, especially to the great majority who seem to be nothing more than what B.F. Skinner insisted we were...
...animals walking on two feet with nothing in mind but their own self preservation, sex, comfort, and food. Devoid of dreams, devoid of mystery, trapped in the 2D mundane.
magnetic: All nation's media are the modern incarnation of the Church of old. They remind me of this picture...
A child is born and thrown into a room with many windows. The person who threw the child into the room wanted to shield that child from certain aspects of reality, and over expose him to another limited sphere or reality or prefabricated reality. So this oppressor puts up boards over the windows that he does not want to child to view out of. He blocks all the doors, and keeps him focussed on the windows that relate to reality that conforms to the ideologies the oppressor wants the child to be assimilated into.
If the child becomes bored with the windows he is left with, then the oppressor merely needs to increase the lighting, give the view glitter, a bang and a boom, make it exciting!
If the child requires more depth and does not fall for this, then emotion is manipulated, and the child is made to feel bad in some way for not wanting to look out that window. Or sex, we all want sex so sex appeal is always a sure bet. Anything to keep that child focussed on that one, finite, reality and or prefab reality.
Also if you want a child to be a stranger to history, you simply rewrite it with your self as the hero, then refuse to give the opressed any camera time, or simply kill them all and write up a terror story insisting that they were a threat... WACO, Native Americans, hell even Andrew Jackson. I bet no one has any clue why his image on the $20 dollar bill is utterly and horribly ironic. I bet no one remembers who destroyed Britian all those years ago... A certain banking clan...
Another thing to consider is that no great inventor or what have you ever came up with his ideas by reading books (the thoughts of other men). Books, and other media related reality while good, also have down sides, like limiting our sphere of potential reality. They on the one hand open new worlds, but on the other hand eventually suffocate us with their borders. Sure we can take old ideas and improve upon them, but books can not provide the world with knew knowledge. Sure it can provide the individual with something they did not know before and they can expand upon that and improve it, but he will never innovate and bring forth mystery or something that has not been done before as he will still be working within the frame of a box.
In order to bring about things that have not been seen before or dreamed up by the mind of man we must "let go our conscious self and act on instinct." to quote an old friend. ;)
The greatest things we have ever seen came from the very ancient world and we still have no logical or scientific reason for how these things came to be. In fact many, most people have never heard of or seen such things. There light is out for what ever reason.
Now granted you will hear many theories being passed as fact such as the notion that slave built the Pyramids and the like, but really, we don't know. We just know that that was impossible, but it's still being taught as truth. And as for those things even more crazy and confusing and amazing and mysterious than Giza...
...we hardly hear so much as a word about them except maybe in that silly show Ancient Aliens which is all fine and well, but I'm tired of some of the goofs they interview for the show, and the fact that everything is alien centric. Not that there are no aliens, but...
...well I'm tired of typing, I think you get what I mean.
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I live almost right on Zuma Beach in Malibu, ca this joke of a tsunami was only 3 foot waves. (normal like any other good day of waves on the beach)
The american news media outlets only seek to frighten and terrorize you. It was a hoax
It's not the height of the waves that make the tsunami powerful it's the volume.
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Of course of course. Science is good, but we must never forget eugenics and what that so called sound proof and logical science brought about.
Again, science is not concerned with morality. Thats why we have philosophy.
Is a computer evil? What about a cure for cancer? Irrigation? Modern fertilisers? Reaching the moon?
Morality is irrelevant to the examination of the world.
Likewise we must never forget the mysteries that are shoved in our face time and time again, I.E. a certain deaf pianist who by the age of three were writing great symphonies, or the American soldier who during world war II was bumped on the head, came to, and was speaking an ancient russian dialect that he never had learned before and had not been used in YEARS. Later he passed back out and awoke again speaking English having no memory of waking up before speaking ancient Russian.
Amusing anecdotes are great, but just because something is not currently explainable,does not mean it is forever unexplainable.
nothing in mind but their own self preservation, sex, comfort, and food. Devoid of dreams, devoid of mystery, trapped in the 2D mundane.
like what? the men who mapped the genome? figured out how atoms are built? sent us to the moon? created computers and the internet?
Mankind is the most marvelous creatures ever to exist
Another thing to consider is that no great inventor or what have you ever came up with his ideas by reading books (the thoughts of other men).
Have you gone off the deep end mate? Virtually everything created builds on the advances made before us. We couldn't have split the atom or mapped the genome or invented flight or any of thethings we have achieved, without drawing on the experiences, theories and tests done by those before us.
Literacy is the single greatest advance made by the human race, allowing knowledge to be preserved, so each generation can build upon it, rather than start from scratch.
Do you think Jay Miner would have had time to create the amiga, if he had to invent electricity first?
And if the theories can be disproven, they can be cast aside and replaced with a new model that better explains the world, and permits new discoveries and wonders
Now granted you will hear many theories being passed as fact such as the notion that slave built the Pyramids and the like, but really, we don't know. We just know that that was impossible, but it's still being taught as truth. And as for those things even more crazy and confusing and amazing and mysterious than Giza...
I'll take slaves over aliens. I can prove the existence of one,and evidence of the other is gloriously absent.
Nobody thinks it was impossible to build the pyramids. Just requires a great knowledge of math, maybe one of the most fundamental corner stones of science.
You know, im a pretty big fan of yours, but I think we'll have to agree to disagree here mate :)
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I find XDelusion's screen name quite fitting ;)
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Of course! Science is a fact.
incorrect. Science is LOOKING for facts. LOOKING for reality. and only through testing and experimentation do we make sure we really have it correctly.
like many people you simply don't understand
religion is about faith. taking someone's opinions and making it the center of your life.
science is about discipline and scepticism. it takes hard work. which is why many people run from it
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Hey, take it to Fox, or CNN. Whichever you prefer.
the news media don't care about reality. they want to feed you pablum
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Science is not about morality. Its about testing and examining the world.
That views can change in the light of evidence is a strength, not a weakness.
finally, a rational person
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@ ceilla
I believe in science for the most part, but even scientists get it wrong and sometimes (in fact quite often) and can't agree with each other about their results and quite often try to de-bunk each others research... ;)
There is quite a lack of discipline in certain sections of the scientific community these days and it mostly seems to come from the same old faces that you see time and time again on documentaries on the likes of the Discovery channel... :)
Reckon myself some of these so called "Scientists" will do & say anything for their 15 minutes of fame... :rolleyes:
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@ ceilla
I believe in science for the most part, but even scientists get it wrong and sometimes (in fact quite often) and can't agree with each other about their results and quite often try to de-bunk each others research... ;)
There is quite a lack of discipline in certain sections of the scientific community these days and it mostly seems to come from the same old faces that you see time and time again on documentaries on the likes of the Discovery channel... :)
Reckon myself some of these so called "Scientists" will do & say anything for their 15 minutes of fame... :rolleyes:
I think that you are mixing up the scientific community with the few scientists that appear on TV.
And yes, scientists try to "debunk" each others' work, because that's one of the most effective ways of attaining new knowledge. There are very few things that can be proven right off the bat (outside axiomatic systems like mathematics), but by setting up specific test cases to try and disprove theories you can rethink, remodel and learn a lot.
Scientists generally don't get things "wrong," either. Discoveries are presented as theories, models and data, and you'll rarely find any scientific research claiming to have attained absolute truth (because that notion in itself is scientifically unsound).
What we can expect from modern science, though, is a bunch of closer and increasingly accurate models of phenomena that would otherwise be incomprehensible to us.
Finally, science is not a system of belief. It should not be posed as if it was analogous or inherently opposed to personal faith, and you're not supposed to blindly accept scientific findings as truths.
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So what happens when nature strikes and all our scientific research & tools are lost, our books destroyed, the "experts" buried? :)
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Really science at times is about mistakes/getting things wrong. A few years ago, I asked a professor how he'd learned so much about a specific species of organism were raising in one labd. He told me that he'd learned from his mistakes. That he was probably aware of virtually every way there was to kill this organism and that if I wanted to work with them I was probably going to kill quite a few myself.
Science is definitely not all successes, but a process of weeding out the failed ideas.
Or as Dr. Weird would put it "This might work...This will never work!"
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I noticed that when I eat food, it later comes out my butt.
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I noticed that when I eat food, it later comes out my butt.
Hey Xdelusion, if that's food coming out of your butt, why don't you eat it?
OK Guys (and Gals). we've one explosion each at the Fukushima Daichi complex's Reactors #1 and #3.
Now there has been an explosion at Unit #2 and radiation has increased four fold.
There are fears the reactor vessel may be damaged and the water level has dropped repeatedly in #2 exposing the fuel rods.
Olli Heinonen, former deputy director general of the International Atomic Energy Agency
"I think the situation is still very, very grim - we are by far not over the worst"
So, three reactors at one site, all possibly in danger of total meltdown, the Japanese without further recourse (asking the US for assistance as these reactors were US designed), and the US relocating the aircraft carrier Ronald Reagan to avoid further contamination.
Anyone care to make further remarks minimizing the potential danger here?
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@ Iggy
I switched of the telly to get away from this non stop reporting on these bloody reactors, do you work for FOX News or something... :rolleyes:
To be honest the sooner they blow the better, might shut down the net for a wee when all that radioactive dust goes up in the air and nocks out some communication satellites... :D
Once again, if it happens it happens... who cares... :)
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Anyone care to make further remarks minimizing the potential danger here?
Sure.. because that's how some of us are..
We hope for the best..
Sometimes we're wrong.. I hope not...
I'd rather not worry about how bad it might be when there's nothing I can do about it..
You seem to revel in bringing up the worst possible outcomes..
This is a free country and you're allowed..
But again, I hope for the best, and deal with the worst when it happens..
The quote from you above almost sounds like you're gloating about being right???
That would be sad.. I hope also that it's not the case..
desiv
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Iggy: I did, didn't taste the same. Hmm... still doing studies. Will report more later when I know something.
In relation to the reactors..I don't watch TV, except for the little I take in while at work at the nursing home. My guess is that if they are in the area that took the hit, then they are more than likely utterly unstable, and we'll probably be looking at another Chernobyl...
Very sad, the Japanese are not getting any breaks. First we bombed the hell out of them tearing apart families and lives, and leaving them with mutated suffering babies for the next few generations, and now this...
I feel bad for them. If the reactors go I can not imagine that that will have a positive impact on the waters all around them, and perhaps even the waters all the way over in California, but who knows, that is just my uneducated speculation. It's just sad.
Though I can say that I'm sure that this disaster and sense of hopelessness is bringing people together and opening them up in ways that TV, Cell Phones, Internet and other such technological gadgets were promised to do, but failed to do and only served to put distances between man in the end.
Sorry, went a little Jay Miner there. I'll try to clean up my act.
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Science is about logically proving/finding something, period! You can even apply science to unexplained events, like in parapsychology. That science and religion don't oppose each other should be obvious to anyone with a bit of a brain, it's people manipulating one or the other that screws up things. Otherwise you wouldn't have scientists openly with faith in high positions managing scientific research.
I think what's more sad is that some people don't even know what's an exact science and what's not and still believe anything the scientific trends of the time say. Want a sad example ? The secondary effects of vaccination. It's true that not getting vaccinated is dangerous but guess what, getting vaccinated can have some catastrophic results to your health. Yet some guys in the media sometimes treat anyone worried about the secondary effects of vaccination as complete lunatics.
Another sad example is psychology, the top researchers are the 1st ones to admit they're in just the start of the very infancy of understanding some stuff at the neurological level, yet there are the most stupidly unfounded trends going on that every scientist starting their career swallows, because they probably won't have a career otherwise. It's also funny that the big visionaries in the history of science had to go against the trends of their time and some only were recognized after they died, that should say something about unfounded trends. Some were recent, Einstein's more important theories were not well accepted at 1st for example.
I think these things, as sad as they are, might open some eyes a bit regarding the safety of nuclear plants and what has been shoved up everyone's ass*s for many years. They're not safe and huge numbers of nuclear plants without there even being any breakthrough in the treatment of nuclear waste is completely insane and arrogant.
The next generations will hate us all.
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Jose: Right on on all accounts, though...
...a true holy man could be involved in a scientific project as his wisdom would come from accepting that he knows nothing and therefore would not have any preconceived notions for the scientific research to contradict.
Now as a Pat Robertson, Billy Graham Inc. or one of those other Bible Belt clowns...
can't trust em' as far as you can throw them, just like the politicians. They draw power from fear, propaganda, hype, and desperation.
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can't trust em' as far as you can throw them, just like the politicians. They draw power from fear, propaganda, hype, and desperation.
"Would I lie to you?"
I never really paid attention to that parallel, but you're right.
Don't worry folks, over half the almost 140 reactors in the United States were built with the same GE technology used at Fukushima.
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GE Builds weapons of mass destruction as well as all sorts of gadgets to speed you up and get you off to work so you can be more productive and produce more numbers for the man on top of the pyramid scheme we call Democratic Capitalism...
...or Socialism, Communism, what ever. The words never define the reality.
EDIT: (forgot to post the commerical)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yql_HGIYV3g
Anyhow, this commercial never ceases to make my stomach turn. It is using country music to appeal to the middle American blue collar worker. As usual the commercial paints a picture of technology bringing people together and making lives happier. Yet what they don't show is that GE builds the weapons used to blow up little nations, take out their CEO, and replace them with a new one that will allow us to out source all of our work over seas so that it can be done much much cheaper.
For what ever reason, even though this reality is obvious, millions of middle American, country music, line dancing Americans sign up to fight for "freedom" (well because they are hard up and need money usually then get to come home and get the instant title of Hero), then complain when they come back home and half the jobs have been outsourced....
...then they settle for a job at McDonalds and come and get drunk on the couch and laugh while watching a show called Out Sourced which is making fun of this very same predicament. Irony.
"there taking our jobs" - South Park
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"Bringing good things to life"
Like...painful, horrifying new ways to die.
Science!
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Most people either don't realize how badly they've been sold out in the name of profit, don't want to realize it, or realize it but are helpless to protest it.
Best you can do is to find your tiny corner of the world and defend it as best you can.
edit: the last category are the people who feel they can somehow aspire to be part of the system if they do and say all the right things, and play the game the way its expected to be played. Cargo cult at its finest.
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Franko:
You're right with the cynicism of humanity. Governments should be willing to deliver the assistance they promise. The poor should not be passed over for help. I have seen time and again the selfish arrogant unscrupulous attitude of total callous denial of definitive reality, as all that so many care about is promoting their selfish agenda. Technology may be rapidly advancing, but character and wisdom are not advancing at any more than an infinitesimal rate. The human race could possibly advance in technology to the level depicted in Star Trek by the 24th century, but certainly not the optimistic level depicted of wisdom or egalitarian society so soon as that- that will take millennia longer at least, I think. Not to contradict my previous point, though, about practical limitations to how much individuals can do about disasters- it does have to be more of a collective effort.
cecilia:
I agree that's notable that the Japanese are calm in such disasters. Also notable and admirable how they are so disciplined as to be orderly and follow rules, even when it's obvious they wouldn't need to in a particular situation. For instance, in this crisis the traffic was not flowing, yet they still wait at red lights to cross the street. Though I think the most notable and admirable thing is how they are not inclined to go looting, or taking advantage of the situation for greedy purposes. This is markedly different from most of the rest of the world. I think it demonstrates the Japanese sense of honor, that most of humanity does not possess.
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Franko:
....Though I think the most notable and admirable thing is how they are not inclined to go looting, or taking advantage of the situation for greedy purposes. This is markedly different from most of the rest of the world. I think it demonstrates the Japanese sense of honor, that most of humanity does not possess.
Except when there's beer or petrol involved. Humanity abounds.
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It's not the height of the waves that make the tsunami powerful it's the volume.
Actually, it's the mass and the velocity, i.e. the momentum, that makes the tsunami powerful/damaging. The wave has immense mass (weight) and high speed, hence the irresistible destructive force that no building or any other object can stand up to. For example, if someone throws a huge thin rubber air filled balloon at you, no matter how hard they throw it, you'd easily laugh it off as it wouldn't cause the slightest bruise. But if the same size boulder falls on you, no matter how short a height it falls from, i.e. slow speed, you'd be crushed like a bug. They're both the same large volume, but the first has negligible mass while the second has a great mass. It's the mass, not volume, that multiplied by velocity determines the momentum, and hence the destructive power.
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@ ceilla
I believe in science for the most part, but even scientists get it wrong and sometimes (in fact quite often) and can't agree with each other about their results and quite often try to de-bunk each others research... ;)
There is quite a lack of discipline in certain sections of the scientific community these days and it mostly seems to come from the same old faces that you see time and time again on documentaries on the likes of the Discovery channel... :)
Reckon myself some of these so called "Scientists" will do & say anything for their 15 minutes of fame... :rolleyes:
Like with any occupation, you have good scientists, and you have bad scientists. Part of science is disagreeing with other scientists, and even trying to discredit them with better empirical evidence, or more unambiguous research methodology for acquiring it.
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What's there to loot in the first place? Everything is wet and buried in rubble, and any area in the disaster zone that wasn't completely ruined is going to be crammed with survivors.
I don't think there's anything particularly special about the japanese or there sense of honour. If Nanking is anything to go by, I'd say they're as bad as anyone else.
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Once again, i respect franko but i don't agree on his ideas about humans.
We're here after this disaster.
We're here after 2nd world war, we're here after lager and gulag!
We're here after fall of rome.
Barbarians were better than romans said.
To romans barbarians (strangers) were half beasts.
But the barbarians of yesterday are the german, spanish, french and all the other people of this beautiful world that made beethoven, kant, john lennon, pablo picasso, Augustine, Kierkegaard and so on!
Sometimes we think other people are cynics. Sometime this is true. But more often is our fear that speaks for us.
I think always to the tale of Androcles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androcles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androcles)) and the lion with a thorn in his foot.
I'm not saying there's no evil or egoism.
But that it's more more little than we think. If we are in our houses continuing to live our lives it's not "bad". "the show must go on". Some people can become cynics but not all people.
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@ rebraist
Have to mostly disagree with you when it comes to the human race...
Yes the human race can make and create wonderful things but at the same time they are the most destructive and self serving creatures on this planet...
Who started all these wars... the human race... :(
Who kills each other for money, land, power, greed, drugs or even sometimes just for the sheer hell of it... the human race... :(
Who destroys books & knowledge written by some of the wisest people of their times... the human race... :(
I could go on for ever giving you endless negative examples of why I'm so cynical about the human race, but your wrong when you say it's "fear that speaks for us" in my case I have nothing to fear from the anything that happens in this world not even death itself...
I accepted a long time ago that death is just a part of life and there is nothing to fear from it, so to me until that time comes I just make sure that I enjoy everything in life good or bad and while all the bad things that happen in the world go on, whether caused by man or caused by nature there is no point in worrying about them... :)
Just enjoy everything you do in life and make the best of whatever situation you find yourself in, as soon enough we all leave this craziest of creations that we call life... :)
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Quotes from some great philosophers......
"The purpose of life is a life of purpose." ~Robert Byrne
"When I stand before God at the end of my life, I would hope that I would not have a single bit of talent left, and could say, "I used everything you gave me." ~Erma Bombeck
" I have a simple philosophy: Fill what's empty. Empty what's full. Scratch where it itches." ~Alice Roosevelt Longworth
"Just enjoy everything you do in life and make the best of whatever situation you find yourself in, as soon enough we all leave this craziest of creations that we call life..." ~Franko
The Dawg
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Like with any occupation, you have good scientists, and you have bad scientists. Part of science is disagreeing with other scientists, and even trying to discredit them with better empirical evidence, or more unambiguous research methodology for acquiring it.
what Franko and many others don't seem to understand is that science is self-correcting.
if you can't prove what you say, then what you say is ignored and the discussion moves on to what has been proven. scientists spend their time experimenting, discussing, proving, disproving.
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cecilia:
I agree that's notable that the Japanese are calm in such disasters. Also notable and admirable how they are so disciplined as to be orderly and follow rules, even when it's obvious they wouldn't need to in a particular situation. For instance, in this crisis the traffic was not flowing, yet they still wait at red lights to cross the street. Though I think the most notable and admirable thing is how they are not inclined to go looting, or taking advantage of the situation for greedy purposes. This is markedly different from most of the rest of the world. I think it demonstrates the Japanese sense of honor, that most of humanity does not possess.
it's a beautiful thing
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what Franko and many others don't seem to understand is that science is self-correcting.
if you can't prove what you say, then what you say is ignored and the discussion moves on to what has been proven. scientists spend their time experimenting, discussing, proving, disproving.
Sorry but I understand perfectly well that science is like every other aspect of humanity, flawed... :)
Science is created and conceived by humans who by their very nature are flawed. As I say I'm not religious in any shape or form but at the same time as that I believe in science I don't kid myself that it has the answers to everything in the universe... :)
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Quotes from some great philosophers......
"The purpose of life is a life of purpose." ~Robert Byrne
"When I stand before God at the end of my life, I would hope that I would not have a single bit of talent left, and could say, "I used everything you gave me." ~Erma Bombeck
" I have a simple philosophy: Fill what's empty. Empty what's full. Scratch where it itches." ~Alice Roosevelt Longworth
"Just enjoy everything you do in life and make the best of whatever situation you find yourself in, as soon enough we all leave this craziest of creations that we call life..." ~Franko
The Dawg
:lol:
I couldn't philosophise my way out of a theoretical paper bag that may be either wet or just a wee bit damp (whichever you perceive to be the case) if my very existence (whether real or not) depended on it... :)
I just say what I mean & mean what I say... ;)
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While I completely sympathise with the Japanese people and what theyre going through right now, I cant for a second bring myself to agree with the excessive false sentiments here that they in any way, shape, or form deal with such crisis any better than the rest of the world. People are remarkably resilient and level headed when required, regardless of where theyre from. People from New Zealand and Australia have in recent times demonstrated this with thier own disasters, as have others (I just use NZ and Aus. as examples as theyre closer to home for me).
It offends me that people will belittle what others have endured and the way they dealt with it just because its not currently plastered all over the media.
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I just say what I mean & mean what I say... ;)
@ Franko - I gathered that from your many post. Very much agreed upon.
To make an observation, don't we all have religion in the sense of a personal set of values that we follow?
Many deny the fact that they too have a inner connection with a higher conscientiousness that stirs within them, but they struggle to disprove it with science or some other man-made concoction.
Look at all the different forms of religion out there today trying to make that connection. I cannot judge any of them, for all I can do is follow my own heart and trust my faith.
Human beings are flawed and division will do us all in, as history has shown that to be true since the beginning of man.
The Dawg
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Sorry but I understand perfectly well that science is like every other aspect of humanity, flawed... :)
Science is created and conceived by humans who by their very nature are flawed. As I say I'm not religious in any shape or form but at the same time as that I believe in science I don't kid myself that it has the answers to everything in the universe... :)
Science is LOOKING for the truth of the universe. even though you claim to not be religious you have that religion mindset that assumes everyone has all the answers.
sciences assumes that we do Not have the answers and is busy looking
the rational Carl Sagan used to say that humans are that part of the Universe that is examining itself
unfortunately some humans don't even want to bother to look
"If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them." - Isaac Asimov
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Science is LOOKING for the truth of the universe. even though you claim to not be religious you have that religion mindset that assumes everyone has all the answers.
sciences assumes that we do Not have the answers and is busy looking
the rational Carl Sagan used to say that humans are that part of the Universe that is examining itself
unfortunately some humans don't even want to bother to look
"If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them." - Isaac Asimov
Dunno which language you speak but if you had read and understood any of the posts I've made here you would know that I DON'T assume science nor everyone else has all the answers, methinks you must be on some strong medication there... :)
PS:try reading more slowly and understanding the words then you won't have to make posts that are totally wrong in their assumptions in future, either that or go to SpecSavers... :D
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without the scientific method, no amigas ;)
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Love is not logical.
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it's a beautiful thing
yes beutiful so much so you northern boys better get your lead lined undies on
Like alot things the xperpts in lab not much cop in the field
and alot time give me ehtusatic amutemer any time with more praticle exp
alot time so called experts got blinders on not willing or discount options
athough may be un tired will work , thank full in japenh least willing to try using sea
water to cool the plants whould be going to lab to test while plant was falling in around
they ears hehe
My dad built Hous in Christchurch he is not a builder according to paper
But he builds stronest houses his survived recent quake in Chrischurch
apprently from reports the 8 ft high contret fence around the place and the house standing proud . its got so much steel reforcing and heavy wooden beams weigh tons
build strong so much so called tradesman build on the cheap
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Dunno which language you speak but if you had read and understood any of the posts I've made here you would know that I DON'T assume science nor everyone else has all the answers, methinks you must be on some strong medication there... :)
PS:try reading more slowly and understanding the words then you won't have to make posts that are totally wrong in their assumptions in future, either that or go to SpecSavers... :D
thats bit strong if was on medication it help whould it not
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without the scientific method, no amigas ;)
No thats not true amiga was built by jay miner he wasint a scientist might used so there
technogly but was used and perefected by average joe
They did things not yet seen in compter field l bet at time alot so called experts whould
told them chouldint be done at cost point or even at all
Dont get blinded by sciencnce it has done amazing things but not the be all end of life
listen to scientists but make up your own mind
Those poor chaps in those plants got use ever bit comon sence and trick in the book.
Not only to save there own lives but alot of people around the country in long term.
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No thats not true amiga was built by jay miner he wasint a scientist might used so there
technogly but was used and perefected by average joe
They did things not yet seen in compter field l bet at time alot so called experts whould
told them chouldint be done at cost point or even at all
Dont get blinded by sciencnce it has done amazing things but not the be all end of life
listen to scientists but make up your own mind
Those poor chaps in those plants got use ever bit comon sence and trick in the book.
Not only to save there own lives but alot of people around the country in long term.
Science is not just a dude in a lab coat. Its the method of systematically studying the world, and testing things out.
There's a million things people needed to do and invent first, before Jay Miner got to work his miracle work.
As far as the reactors, as far as I understand it, by pumping in sea water, they are pretty much writing those reactors off for future use, as it causes heavy corrosion. But if it keeps things under control, I wish them the absolute best. Japan is a small place, and widespread contamination would be a serious concern. They can't just quarantine a 30 mile radius like they did in Russia.
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The reactor was going to be turned off later this year, since it is the oldest one in japan. I guess they will just bring that date forward?
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runequester: We're just being sarcastic if we suggest that science (as defined here) has no place. It's an inevitable part of having self awareness...
... but there is more to us that mere mind & emotion, trial & error.
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Dunno which language you speak but if you had read and understood any of the posts I've made here you would know that I DON'T assume science nor everyone else has all the answers, methinks you must be on some strong medication there... :)
PS:try reading more slowly and understanding the words then you won't have to make posts that are totally wrong in their assumptions in future, either that or go to SpecSavers... :D
We all have our prophets Frank, some of us (like moi et Karlos) believe the last one died ~1400yrs ago.
There are others who have more recent personal "prophets".
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Japan is a small place, and widespread contamination would be a serious concern. They can't just quarantine a 30 mile radius like they did in Russia.
Can't? If this gets worse and there is widespread contamination, what choice will they have?
Number two and closing on the number one position Fukushima Japan.
Whatever happened to the coverage of the volcanic eruption?
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Oh, and might I ad that the universe is in perfect harmony and provides us with food & shelter (plus manna), just as it provides the animals (jobless bastards). It is man that is in discord, out of balance, not able to witness universal perfection because of pride, vanity, & a fEw other demons. The s ience of God is perfect, and we have choice. Live in accord with nature or rape it.
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I keep telling our cats to get a job.
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I keep telling our cats to get a job.
It just occurred to me that one day we might have to compete with something like that.
Genetic engineering is becoming quite sophisticated. What's to prevent some seriously demented genetic engineer from trying to create our replacements in the workplace?
Would those creatures have rights or would they be processions?
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It just occurred to me that one day we might have to compete with something like that.
Genetic engineering is becoming quite sophisticated. What's to prevent some seriously demented genetic engineer from trying to create our replacements in the workplace?
Would those creatures have rights or would they be processions?
The cynic would say that if history is a guide, they'll receive rights as individuals 50 years later.
The optimist would say that we are sufficiently enlightened to grant them immediately.
The practical would go read Uplift again :)
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Missed that series of books.
The idea looks grimmer than the plot synopsis of each book would indicate.
100,000 years of indentured servitude? Do they ever discuss why no uplifted species ever revolts against its sponsors?
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Oh, and might I ad that the universe is in perfect harmony and provides us with food & shelter (plus manna), just as it provides the animals (jobless bastards). It is man that is in discord, out of balance, not able to witness universal perfection because of pride, vanity, & a fEw other demons. The s ience of God is perfect, and we have choice. Live in accord with nature or rape it.
+1
"God doesn't play dice"..... ;)
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+1
"God doesn't play dice"..... ;)
Heisenberg states otherwise.
People that think they understand the nature, intent, or thoughts of God are delusional.
However, Xdelusion is very correct about living with nature. The ecosystem requires it or one day your species gets taken out. This is the VERY real action of evolution. These vast majority of plants and animal species that have existed exist no more.
Almost all humans live in discord with their natural environments. And no science will rectify this. As such, is it any surprise that all "civilizations" see the seed of man's destruction in his own self-absorbed nature?
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Heisenberg states otherwise.
People that think they understand the nature, intent, or thoughts of God are delusional.
Anyone who claims that they know what God *is*, is delusional.
Not even prophets have that knowledge.
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@ rebraist
Have to mostly disagree with you when it comes to the human race...
Yes the human race can make and create wonderful things but at the same time they are the most destructive and self serving creatures on this planet...
Who started all these wars... the human race... :(
Who kills each other for money, land, power, greed, drugs or even sometimes just for the sheer hell of it... the human race... :(
Who destroys books & knowledge written by some of the wisest people of their times... the human race... :(
I could go on for ever giving you endless negative examples of why I'm so cynical about the human race, but your wrong when you say it's "fear that speaks for us" in my case I have nothing to fear from the anything that happens in this world not even death itself...
I accepted a long time ago that death is just a part of life and there is nothing to fear from it, so to me until that time comes I just make sure that I enjoy everything in life good or bad and while all the bad things that happen in the world go on, whether caused by man or caused by nature there is no point in worrying about them... :)
Just enjoy everything you do in life and make the best of whatever situation you find yourself in, as soon enough we all leave this craziest of creations that we call life... :)
Hi,
@Franko,
I tell my kids that the only monsters in life are people.
I also tell them to enjoy death because it only comes once in life.
smerf
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Anyone who claims that they know what God *is*, is delusional.
Not even prophets have that knowledge.
Absolutely, we are all just men.
And yet it seems impossible for God not to exist.
Anything that can not be dis-proven is likely to have its basis in truth.
Nothing I have ever learned from any scientific discipline has ever challenged that fact.
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Absolutely, we are all just men.
And yet it seems impossible for God not to exist.
Anything that can not be dis-proven is likely to have its basis in truth.
Nothing I have ever learned from any scientific discipline has ever challenged that fact.
Science only strengthens my belief in the unseen (Which is all faith is really).
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God, perfection...
Mysteries to my mind.
So I listen or try to listen to that still small voice within. It has all the wisdom a million years of trial & error could never compete with.
To bad my ego is to busy screaming, trying to drive that voice out. I ME MINE I ME MINE.
Oh and the hustle & bustle in the world around me...
please I wisper, be still, come here, sit beside Take a load off...
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Science only strengthens my belief in the unseen (Which is all faith is really).
Absolutely, science keeps pointing to truths that reinforce my belief.
For instance, the old evolutionary model that insists on "missing links"? Doesn't seem to work that way. Organisms change in "jumps".
Fur or feathers, but NO intermediate stage.
Birds evolving four chambered hearts and warm blooded metabolisms independently of mammals.
Just studying biology you have to wonder at the obvious, recurrent similarities even in unrelated organisms.
This is not just parallel evolution, there's something inherent to it that defies explanation via random events.
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As most of you will have probably gathered by now I don't believe in the existence of this thing/person/entity called Gawd, but if I ever met him (and that's one hell of a big if) I'd convince him that he was just a figment of my imagination and nip his head until he disappeared in a cloud of purple smoke up his own rear end... :)
Only thing I believe in are Amigas, (and squirrels) everything else is just a poor imitation and probably doesn't even exist anyway, in fact I think this internet wotnot is just all in me mind and I'm really just talking to my own wee voices in my head here... (get's a bit crowded sometimes though...) :D
(PS:nearly forgot I believe in Vindaloos too, they're the best... :))
Anyone here actually met this Gawd geezer anyway... :)
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It's amusing how much of what we are "discoverying" now, was recorded in the Vedas thoughsands of years ago. :)
And I love how ancient cultures who were said to be animalistic cave men, could perctly map the globe & knew the motions of our universe, planets, stars, and all that is beyond site.
Evolution?
FRANKO: Only thing I believe in are Amigas, (and squirrels) everything else is just a poor imitation and probably doesn't even exist anyway.
Awesome!! :)
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God, perfection...
Mysteries to my mind.
So I listen or try to listen to that still small voice within. It has all the wisdom a million years of trial & error could never compete with.
To bad my ego is to busy screaming, trying to drive that voice out. I ME MINE I ME MINE.
Oh and the hustle & bustle in the world around me...
please I wisper, be still, come here, sit beside Take a load off...
In Arabic this is known as the "Jihad an-nafs", The Struggle Against The Self.
It is the most important obligatory duty of a Muslim and was described by our prophet as Al-Jihad al-Akbar, "The greatest of struggles".
Most of us humans fail spectacularly at it on a minute by minute basis. :(
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Missed that series of books.
The idea looks grimmer than the plot synopsis of each book would indicate.
100,000 years of indentured servitude? Do they ever discuss why no uplifted species ever revolts against its sponsors?
I havent read them in a long time, so I forget. I seem to recall the story was mainly from the human perspective. I should dig them up again... been without good scifi for a while
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In Arabic this is known as the "Jihad an-nafs", The Struggle Against The Self.
It is the most important obligatory duty of a Muslim and was described by our prophet as Al-Jihad al-Akbar, "The greatest of struggles".
Most of us humans fail spectacularly at it on a minute by minute basis. :(
I have cut and pasted that to a text document for later reference because it addresses something that has troubled me about humanity for some time.
Thanks Nicholas.
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nicholas: the true Jihad!
I'm familiar.
Peace be with you brother!
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Absolutely, science keeps pointing to truths that reinforce my belief.
For instance, the old evolutionary model that insists on "missing links"? Doesn't seem to work that way. Organisms change in "jumps".
Fur or feathers, but NO intermediate stage.
Birds evolving four chambered hearts and warm blooded metabolisms independently of mammals.
Just studying biology you have to wonder at the obvious, recurrent similarities even in unrelated organisms.
This is not just parallel evolution, there's something inherent to it that defies explanation via random events.
Indeed, perhaps you might like to read about the works of one of my favourite scientists/scholars from 800 years ago. Particularly his research on evolution.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nasir_al-Din_al-Tusi
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I have cut and pasted that to a text document for later reference because it addresses something that has troubled me about humanity for some time.
Thanks Nicholas.
You are welcome. :)
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nicholas: the true Jihad!
I'm familiar.
Peace be with you brother!
Wa alaykum asalaam akhi/And upon you be peace brother.
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Need to get round to finishing a wee book I've been writing for about the past 8 years now it's working title is "The Last Lap Of The (Human) Race" (C), it's basically about how I see and observe life and the way Humanity is rounding the last bend in it's existence and hurtling towards the finish line into self made oblivion... :)
(Just wish me crayons would stop breaking and I could get it finished... :D)
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Indeed, perhaps you might like to read about the works of one of my favourite scientists/scholars from 800 years ago. Particularly his research on evolution.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nasir_al-Din_al-Tusi
Wow, that floors me. Why do we give credit to Darwin? This contains a very concise description of how ecology and the organisms in it interact to create change/adaption.
"The organisms that can gain the new features faster are more variable. As a result, they gain advantages over other creatures. [...] The bodies are changing as a result of the internal and external interactions."
That is as true today, as when this scholar wrote this.
Again, thank you Nicholas.
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It's amusing how much of what we are "discoverying" now, was recorded in the Vedas thoughsands of years ago. :)
And I love how ancient cultures who were said to be animalistic cave men, could perctly map the globe & knew the motions of our universe, planets, stars, and all that is beyond site.
Evolution?
"Between plants and animals there is sponge and between animals and humans there is monkey." -
İbrahim Hakkı of Erzurum, 18th Century Ottoman Gnostic and Scientist
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Wow, that floors me. Why do we give credit to Darwin? This contains a very concise description of how ecology and the organisms in it interact to create change/adaption.
"The organisms that can gain the new features faster are more variable. As a result, they gain advantages over other creatures. [...] The bodies are changing as a result of the internal and external interactions."
That is as true today, as when this scholar wrote this.
Again, thank you Nicholas.
This is but one of many reasons I am no longer an atheist.
No need to thank me though, all praise belongs to the creator. :)
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"Between plants and animals there is sponge and between animals and humans there is monkey." -
İbrahim Hakkı of Erzurum, 18th Century Ottoman Gnostic and Scientist
There again, I wasn't aware that Gnosticism survived into the 18th century.
Truly you must be our Amigoid Morpheus Nicholas.
You a verifying a belief I've long held that we keep re-discovering things that were known in the past.
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Human history stretches over a long time, and rapid, easy spread of knowledge is a pretty recent thing. A lot of "inventing things again" has gone on, before literacy became a "normal" thing.
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No need to thank me though, all praise belongs to the creator. :)
Well... if the "creator" does exist then I want me money back, cos this thing he created has more flaws and bugs in it than every new release of Microsoft or Apple OS's... :)
(any one have an email or hotline I can call... ;))
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This is but one of many reasons I am no longer an atheist.
No need to thank me though, all praise belongs to the creator. :)
I think atheists are blind to evidence that faces them their every waking moment.
Or they just deny it.
I feel much more comfortable with my own morality, not because I believe in an afterlife, but because I now believe my life to be a very small part of an ongoing spectacle that will continue to unfold after me.
Who would want to live forever?
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There again, I wasn't aware that Gnosticism survived into the 18th century.
Truly you must be our Amigoid Morpheus Nicholas.
You a verifying a belief I've long held that we keep re-discovering things that were known in the past.
There are gnostics of all manner still around today, just within Islam the Sunnis have the Sufis but the entire Shi'a faith is an esoteric belief system and our scholars (whom we practice personal emulation of) spend decades studying and practicing mysticism as taught by our 12 Imams.
Ayatollah Khomeini was considered one of the greatest gnostics of modern history long before his move into frontline politics.
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Well... if the "creator" does exist then I want me money back, cos this thing he created has more flaws and bugs in it than every new release of Microsoft or Apple OS's... :)
(any one have an email or hotline I can call... ;))
I don't believe I'll get to meet God to question him about those "flaws".
But if the question is why was man born to suffer and die?
Then the answer HAS to be "Why not?"
Franko, you ought to read the end of Kurt Vonnegut's novel "Cat's Cradle".
I think I might be a Bokonist.
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There are gnostics of all manner still around today, just within Islam the Sunnis have the Sufis but the entire Shi'a faith is an esoteric belief system and our scholars (whom we practice personal emulation of) spend decades studying and practicing mysticism as taught by our 12 Imams.
Ayatollah Khomeini was considered one of the greatest gnostics of modern history long before his move into frontline politics.
That doesn't completely surprise me as the belief spans multiple faiths. Jewish Gnostics, Christian Gnostics, and Muslim Gnostics all with the suspicion that reality may be veiled.
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Well... if the "creator" does exist then I want me money back, cos this thing he created has more flaws and bugs in it than every new release of Microsoft or Apple OS's... :)
(any one have an email or hotline I can call... ;))
Just ask Him out loud and you will get a reply.
Might not be the reply you want, but you'll get one all the same.
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Who would want to live forever?
I'll buy a ticket for that ride! That is I would, if I could keep a body (or be transferred into an android) that would keep working and not wrinkle up to a creaking pile of bones that hurt all the time.
I want to see what will happen 40, 60, 80, or 200 years from now. Maybe if I lived long enough, I would eventually see the Amiga get some respect from computer historians and/or actually see something new released that is as far ahead as the Amiga was when it was first released. :)
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That doesn't completely surprise me as the belief spans multiple faiths. Jewish Gnostics, Christian Gnostics, and Muslim Gnostics all with the suspicion that reality may be veiled.
I think you'd probably love my personal library.
Books are my first addiction, Amiga's are a distant second.
PM me a mailing address and I'll send you a gift of one of the English books from my collection if you like.
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Just ask Him out loud and you will get a reply.
Might not be the reply you want, but you'll get one all the same.
Just gave it a try...
Only reply I got was from the next door neighbour telling me to "keep the fecking noise down at this time of the morning" (grumpy old bugger)... :(
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Just gave it a try...
Only reply I got was from the next door neighbour telling me to "keep the fecking noise down at this time of the morning" (grumpy old bugger)... :(
You got an answer, the trick is to analyse both the question and the response and learn from the experience as a whole.
Self accounting. Do it every day for best results.
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I meant, are we evolving if we are just catching up with our pre-deluge ancestors? :)
"Between plants and animals there is sponge and between animals and humans there is monkey." -
Ibrahim Hakki of Erzurum, 18th Century Ottoman Gnostic and Scientist
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You got an answer, the trick is to analyse both the question and the response and learn from the experience as a whole.
Self accounting. Do it every day for best results.
I have tried that on more than one occasion and the results have been disturbing. One time I spent an entire weekend constantly getting images (on the TV, in films, in newspapers) of the two rivers that meet at the center of Pittsburgh (near where my father was born) when ever I turned on a television, watched a movie or read a paper.
Not a few times, several dozen. It was creepy and kind of funny at the same time..
By Sunday I was damned near in tears and I promised to contact my Dad's PA relatives only to turn on CNN and get coverage of kayaks in the now cleaner waters flowing through Pittsburgh.
I'm sure there is a God, and his sense of humor is perverse.
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Uh, bad news that is current.
Workers are being pulled out of the Fukushima nuclear facility.
Remember earlier when I said things could get worse?
Well without workers, there will be no one to maintain the water levels in Reactors 1, 2, 3 and in the spent fuel pools above reactor 4.
Partial fuel degradation has occurred in all four locations (with maintenance).
Now, we have a live experiment in how bad a nuclear plant accident can get.
Once again, God bless and preserve the people of the nation of Japan.
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I think atheists are blind to evidence that faces them their every waking moment.
Or they just deny it.
I feel much more comfortable with my own morality, not because I believe in an afterlife, but because I now believe my life to be a very small part of an ongoing spectacle that will continue to unfold after me.
Who would want to live forever?
I think believers are blind to evidence that faces them their every waking moment.
Or they just deny it.
Or maybe sweeping generalizations is something we should all put behind us.
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I think believers are blind to evidence that faces them their every waking moment.
Or they just deny it.
Or maybe sweeping generalizations is something we should all put behind us.
Perhaps, and then perhaps not. This is not a simple argument like asking if a glass is half full or half empty (its not a matter of perception).
Some generalizations are valid.
There are rules that govern all physical phenomenon, although physics is beginning to question whether these rules apply in all states.
I guess its a matter of whether or not you believe that there is someone formulating the rules.
"I think therefore I am", "Let there be light", the big bang?
All related in my cosmos.
So at the heart of my beliefs, a sweeping generalization that everything is connected. A vast ballet of mathematics, physics, and rules that coexist to produce a result.
We are small creatures limited in our intellect facing a vast construct that we will one day disappear from.
As men, unique amongst all creatures we have learned to question this and to learn and grow past our place in the natural order.
But whether or not you agree with me, man is still only a a meat machine with a grand but still limited neural net processor.
He's not God, and no matter how great our achievements, he never will be.
So you can have your humanist views affirming agnostic or atheistic sentiments and I can have mine.
In the long run it doesn't matter because we will never get an answer to this question.
And one day, we will be gone.
I can live with that.
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@Runequestor
Lol, you beat me to it :)
The whole blind faith thing, regardless of rationality thing baffles me. so does the internal justification for maintaining such beliefs. I have no qualms with people having faith, but comments like (to paraphrase), "it must be true 'cos it cant be disproven" to me is crazy.
I have a ghost in my house. Ive never seen it, heard it or felt it, but I cant disprove it therefore it's probably real. Come on, seriously ?
People can come up with twisted logic to support thier own beliefs for anything be it God, or twelve foot squirrels.
All this said and done though any chance people can take the religion talk elsewhere. I really dont want to offend others with my beliefs (that there is no God), and I'd hope others would have the same courteousy.
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Has anyone heard whether or not the workers (some or all) or a new crew have re-entered the facility?
This is the current rumor on the news and the web.
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Uh, bad news that is current.
Workers are being pulled out of the Fukushima nuclear facility.
Remember earlier when I said things could get worse?
Well without workers, there will be no one to maintain the water levels in Reactors 1, 2, 3 and in the spent fuel pools above reactor 4.
Partial fuel degradation has occurred in all four locations (with maintenance).
Now, we have a live experiment in how bad a nuclear plant accident can get.
Once again, God bless and preserve the people of the nation of Japan.
The workers that you speak of were part of the original plants work force not anything to do with the brave souls who are currently risking life and limb trying to make the reactors safe...
Honestly, I do think your getting caught up in all the mainstream media crap about this disaster by claiming things like "well without workers", the vast majority of the plants normal work force have been long since taken out and it's the clean up crews and specialists who are now trying to maintain things and keep it under control... :)
You really should take a step back and consider ALL the facts available before you continue speculating on just how bad things might get, as you seem to be more worried about it than most rational people, take it easy man, if it happens, it happens, if it doesn't, it doesn't... no point in worrying yourself over something that will most likely not affect you directly... ;)
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So you can have your humanist views affirming agnostic or atheistic sentiments and I can have mine.
In the long run it doesn't matter because we will never get an answer to this question.
And one day, we will be gone.
I can live with that.
In the end, the important part isn't if we get an answer, it's if the universe runs on 68K :)
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@Runequestor
Lol, you beat me to it :)
The whole blind faith thing, regardless of rationality thing baffles me. so does the internal justification for maintaining such beliefs. I have no qualms with people having faith, but comments like (to paraphrase), "it must be true 'cos it cant be disproven" to me is crazy.
I have a ghost in my house. Ive never seen it, heard it or felt it, but I cant disprove it therefore it's probably real. Come on, seriously ?
People can come up with twisted logic to support thier own beliefs for anything be it God, or twelve foot squirrels.
All this said and done though any chance people can take the religion talk elsewhere. I really dont want to offend others with my beliefs (that there is no God), and I'd hope others would have the same courteousy.
Interesting, but I don't believe in ghosts or 12 foot squirrels.
And I don't question your right to believe whatever you want.
I fact I don't believe that either position holds any particular consequence.
And if you can, disprove the existence of God.
I can't prove God existence to you.
But everything I see in this Universe tells me life is an inherent part of it.
So whether or not you believe an all encompassing intellect is involved in the basic structure the cosmos is not important to me.
Personally, I find it hard to believe that order derives from chaos and that man is the apex of intelligence.
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In the end, the important part isn't if we get an answer, it's if the universe runs on 68K :)
Well we all know the answer to "Life, The Universe and Everything" is 42... :)
So we just need to figure out how we get the 68K to come up with the answer 42 and bobs your uncle, we will have proof that the universe and everything in it runs on 68K... :D
(Just hope to gawd it doesn't turn out to be run on an old ZX Spectrum running on a Z80 or were really stuffed... :eek:)
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The workers that you speak of were part of the original plants work force not anything to do with the brave souls who are currently risking life and limb trying to make the reactors safe...
Honestly, I do think your getting caught up in all the mainstream media crap about this disaster by claiming things like "well without workers", the vast majority of the plants normal work force have been long since taken out and it's the clean up crews and specialists who are now trying to maintain things and keep it under control... :)
You really should take a step back and consider ALL the facts available before you continue speculating on just how bad things might get, as you seem to be more worried about it than most rational people, take it easy man, if it happens, it happens, if it doesn't, it doesn't... no point in worrying yourself over something that will most likely not affect you directly... ;)
It hasn't been speculation Franko.
Days ago I told you what could happen, why it could happen, and what events would precede it.
Unfortunately, it looks like a worst case scenario is unfolding.
The "experts" should stop minimizing this and state the painfully obvious. This situation is unlike anything that has preceded it and that its going to get worse as this real world experiment continues.
Even if they had managed this under control, it would be months or years before this was over.
To repeat what I said days ago, we've never seen a total meltdown, yet...
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Well we all know the answer to "Life, The Universe and Everything" is 42... :)
So we just need to figure out how we get the 68K to come up with the answer 42 and bobs your uncle, we will have proof that the universe and everything in it runs on 68K... :D
(Just hope to gawd it doesn't turn out to be run on an old ZX Spectrum running on a Z80 or were really stuffed... :eek:)
thatd explain the dodgy graphics when I walk outside
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Well we all know the answer to "Life, The Universe and Everything" is 42... :)
So we just need to figure out how we get the 68K to come up with the answer 42 and bobs your uncle, we will have proof that the universe and everything in it runs on 68K... :D
(Just hope to gawd it doesn't turn out to be run on an old ZX Spectrum running on a Z80 or were really stuffed... :eek:)
Ugh, whale blubber.
Personally I always like the sentiment "So long and thanks for the fish".
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I keep telling our cats to get a job.
me too they dont listen mouse catchers athough job kfc whould be there choice
not sure get work done apart from licking the grill thoughty
Maybe should not post when am drunk and ony had 2 glasses of beer
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What horrible thought! Life is a simulation and God has a dodgy computer.
Although I am comfortable with the idea that Bill Gates is the Anti-Christ.
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@ Iggy
Sorry, but until and IF it happens then it is nothing more than speculation, as you say we've never seen a total meltdown before and were not likely to see one either in this case...
Again though with a total meltdown never having ever occurred, it all just speculation and guesswork as to what the results would be of a total meltdown... :)
Even the different so called experts and their computer models vary wildly in what the result of a total meltdown would be. So in the meantime let the ones in charge of trying to bring it under control try to solve the problem and at the end of it all only then will we see who was right and who was wrong... :)
As I say no point in worrying or speculating over something which you and I have no control over whether we like it or not... ;)
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thatd explain the dodgy graphics when I walk outside
:roflmao:
Wasn't expecting that reply, me jaws sore with laughing now... :D
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me too they dont listen mouse catchers athough job kfc whould be there choice
not sure get work done apart from licking the grill thoughty
Maybe should not post when am drunk and ony had 2 glasses of beer
Beer sounds good.
I'm going to bed.
God bless you all whether he (or you for that matter) exist or not.
Jim
And I hope your right Franko. Its bad enough think of everything else that's happened, then this and the consequences that will occur even if a miracle occurs and nothing else happens.
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Beer sounds good.
I'm going to bed.
God bless you all whether he (or you for that matter) exist or not.
Jim
+1 :)
It'll be daylight here in a couple of hours and I'll need to get some kip before I have to wake up and feed them 12 foot squirrels... :)
Night, Night all... ;)
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And Franko turns out to be right. Emergency workers return to the facility, nothing else has blown up, and so far no further down turns.
Still a dire situation, but the longer things maintain the status quo the better for the long term look out.
Hey Frank, do you think you could train the 12 foot tree rats? They'd make good replacements for the emergency workers.
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For the Gnostic, blind faith is a stranger..
I love how this topic is all the place. :)
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For the Gnostic, blind faith is a stranger..
I love how this topic is all the place. :)
I love that Apple, CUSA and Morph vs OS4 hasn't come up at all :)
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For the Gnostic, blind faith is a stranger..
I love how this topic is all the place. :)
For the Muslim, blind faith is not only forbidden, it takes one out of the fold of Islam entirely.
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We all have our prophets Frank, some of us (like moi et Karlos) believe the last one died ~1400yrs ago.
There are others who have more recent personal "prophets".
I'm a Proud Atheist and I've never taken drugs
and before some silly person make the ridiculous comment that atheism is like a religion let me point out that I follow no rituals, no holidays, no statues, no prayers, no "beliefs" based on make believe voodoo....and so on
I simply state than NO ONE has Ever proved the existence of any "god"
ever.
that's not a 'belief'
that's a fact
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I'm a Proud Atheist and I've never taken drugs
and before some silly person make the ridiculous comment that atheism is like a religion let me point out that I follow no rituals, no holidays, no statues, no prayers, no "beliefs" based on make believe voodoo....and so on
I simply state than NO ONE has Ever proved the existence of any "god"
ever.
that's not a 'belief'
that's a fact
Everyone follows prophets, false or otherwise.
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I'll agree that some atheists are almost as bad as religious types when it comes to trying to convert people..
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Atheism can be a religion. It just means you are skeptical. Perhaps Cecilia does believe in paranormal? (Things currently unexplained)
Some people deny everything, some people are skeptical and some people are gullible.
It is fine to follow the rules of your religion unless it becomes quite deluded, but then that is why there are a lot of sheeple.
The CO2 debate is the current delusion of sheeple. (I'm not a denier, but I think future technology and/or reducing the birth rate is better than sending society back to the stone age.)
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All I know, from my experience, is that when the mind is busy, truth can not be perceived.
Like wise, when the heart is too heavy or to light, again reality can not be perceived.
Beleif therefore is an obstruction to truth. Therefore if the athiest (assuming they are truly free of preconceived notions as they claim) could more easily (in theory) grasp reality than one full of beleifs, IF they could just let go of their concious self for at least a few moments each day & BE STILL.
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I'm a Proud Atheist and I've never taken drugs
and before some silly person make the ridiculous comment that atheism is like a religion let me point out that I follow no rituals, no holidays, no statues, no prayers, no "beliefs" based on make believe voodoo....and so on
I simply state than NO ONE has Ever proved the existence of any "god"
ever.
that's not a 'belief'
that's a fact
AFAIK atheists also claim that neither God nor any other deity exist, and that's a belief. Except for agnostic atheists who don't claim the latter, although so called "strong" agnostics claim that it will be impossible for the human kind to find out if God/deities exist or not - another belief. I guess that people that really don't believe in anything are hard to find, and to live this way they have to suppress any emotion, thus negating their own nature.
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@ All
I don't believe in anything at all unless the squirrels tell me it is so... :)
Charlie (he's the short one on the left in the purple waistcoat) told me this morning that once upon a time when he was on the set of a famous movie that he starred in a small tiny bubble the size of a house came up to him and told him that the Amiga would make a comeback in the year 2036 (just around teatime)... :)
Now I don't know about you but as this all happened around 100 years ago and I clearly recall it happening meself as if it were tomorrow, then it only goes to prove, never listen to anything anyone says or what you read (even if they claim to be from your local library and it's carved in stone)... :)
Unless of course you hear it from a 12 foot high squirrel who heard it first hand from a tiny bubble that was high on crack cocaine whilst it was praying to gawd who just so happens to work in the local fish & chip repair shop just up the high street (you know, the one beside the zebra crossing)... :)
(think I'll go take me meds now, me head hurts.... :confused:)
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I was thinking today about the 50 brave souls risking their all at Fukushima.
If I wasn't married, if I didn't have to be concerned about leaving my wife without the support and comfort of her husband, if I didn't have to worry about other close members of my family that rely on me like my 73 year old mother, my mother in law who is on disability or my siblings, I'd consider volunteering for this.
I have experience in plumbing, as a merchant marine tankerman I'm familar with large scale piping and pumping systems. I'm 50 years old and I've had a full life.
Plus the conditions at the plant are not a guaranteed death sentence, many of those 50 will survive this. If we could find enough experienced dedicated people to supplement the 50 we might be able to carry on until the plant is stabalized.
Whats the risk of the lives of a few hundred people compared to the potential suffering of hundreds of thousands.
I could do it, calmly and with a sense of purpose. God measures or lives based on our accomplishments and how much we have placed the interests of other above their own.
Its time for a few of use that realize how important this could be in making the difference between a contained event and an all out holocaust.
So who do we approach about joining the fight?
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Iggy: When Katrina hit a few years back, a local preacher buddy of mine was trying to round up people from his church and locally to go down there in a few buses. I was going to go, but then the government turned around and would not let anybody in to help except for those people who they authorised. :/
Anyhow, after having read this thread (or most of it) I have came to this conclusion.
A. Franko is an elitist know it all who is constantly trying to shove his Squirrel centric views onto ever one. I think he should shut his fat face, invest his belief system into televised vision, and the printed word as neither Amiga nor Squirrels have any place in consensus reality! UP YOURS FRANKO YOU ELITIST SHLUMP! That's right, I said it!
B. Cats along with all other mammals need to start taking life, politics, and the global agenda seriously. They need to get life insurance, become concerned about their longevity, and clean up their act!!! I'm sick of their crap!!!
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I take it that none of the rest of you have the balls to follow my lead. We should be able to get donation of high quality Geiger counters and high quality radiation suits.
A small unitized container would be larger enough to ship the gear we'd need. And if we can find a backhoe the container could serve as an underground baunker to work out of. We need minimal survival supplies and the support of a few industrial partner.
The merchant marine industry could supply double hulled rock barges that could be used to transport the spent nuclear rods from reactor 4 covered encased in water.Pumps on the ship could assure the robs stayed covered.
Pumps used on decks large oil barges could be trucked in the plant. The 6,8, and 10" diameter steel reinforce flexible rubber hoses would be ideal for running the temporary water lines need for reactors 1,2, and three. Cranes would be needed to move the spent rods to their floating containment.
The breach in reactor 2 is troubling but if pressure is kept down, steel wire could be stretched over the rupture and spray concrete could cover the rupture in the containment.
Once cooling is reestablished to reactors 1,2,and 3. It should be esier to stabilize the plant. Then we could refocus on the last two reactors that might be in danger.
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Go for it, I have five kids and a disabled wife with a bun in the oven who come first.
Charity cases have to suffice with the 22.5% of my annual income I am obliged to give them as a Shi'a Muslim.
I imagine the Japanese authorities will tell you to sling your hook though.
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Iggy: When Katrina hit a few years back, a local preacher buddy of mine was trying to round up people from his church and locally to go down there in a few buses. I was going to go, but then the government turned around and would not let anybody in to help except for those people who they authorised. :/
Anyhow, after having read this thread (or most of it) I have came to this conclusion.
A. Franko is an elitist know it all who is constantly trying to shove his Squirrel centric views onto ever one. I think he should shut his fat face, invest his belief system into televised vision, and the printed word as neither Amiga nor Squirrels have any place in consensus reality! UP YOURS FRANKO YOU ELITIST SHLUMP! That's right, I said it!
B. Cats along with all other mammals need to start taking life, politics, and the global agenda seriously. They need to get life insurance, become concerned about their longevity, and clean up their act!!! I'm sick of their crap!!!
Wow... finally... at last I've been given a title... :D
Makes me feel quite honoured that does "FRANKO THE ELITIST SHLUMP"... actually I was never very good at Elite, never made it past crashing into the space station while docking... ;)
Anywhoo, after a few days of one of the most bizarre threads I've seen here on A.org I'd reckon we can sum it all up with...
Amiga.org is home to the stranger section of the Amiga Community, a safe haven for the last of the Amiga nutters to gather and congregate and talk about all sorts of weird things as long as it's got nothing to do with the Amiga... :)
Religion, Philosophy, Natural & Man Made Disasters, Art, Culture, Squirrels, Apple and a whole lot more besides, now that we've covered all that once and for all, can we please get back to talking about the important things in life ie: the Amiga... :)
PS: I think Iggy badly needs a shipment of me meds more than I do... ;)
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Hey Guys, I wasn't kidding about that last post. Outside help could make a difference.
Marine transport companies should be able to dig out a fairly large amount of large diameter steal belt rubber hoses (in 6, 8, and 10" diameters) and some large skid mounted diesel pumps.
A few double hulled stone barges ought to be a to be available, the spent few from reactor 4 could be loaded into these and covered with water.
No 2 hole could be cover with steel mesh a concrete pump over it o seal the reactor.
Then all that would be needed would be to tie in the temporary diesel pump via the flexible hoses to the reactor surviving cooling line.
I have left out a few things. We'd need a few good industrial cranes and somer basic hand and power tools and of course some good quality radiation suits with a healty supply of O2.
Some remote tv equipment and a decent extent able boom that could deliver boric acid, waster, concrete sprays would also be useful.
They should already be thinking of things like this.
Jim
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Franko: If you will take the time to read the forum rules, you'll see that no one ever authorised squirrels centric conversations. It hasn't even been 10 years since the incident with the squirrels and now is certainly not the time to start making jokes. Too many lives were affected...
HAVE YOU NO HEART?!?!?!
IGGY: I feel you man, but as for me, I've never been one to make donations. Locally yes, when I know who's hand my money is going into, but never or rarely to a cause I can not monitor in first person.
Take Cancer research for example. You know why we are not making any progress, because it is in the way our food (amongst other things) is mass produced and put together. They will not challenge this (with sincere effort) because that would mean the collapse of the Capitalist Empire as it is currently established.
Note that you don't see wide spread out breaks of Cancer in the Rain Forests or in wild animals. There was no Cancer, Aids, and such in America till the "White man" came. Those who choose to separate them selves from nature/God's Law, and place them selves on a seat above it, treating it like a whore...
I'm more of one of those kind of people who like to help in the flesh, I'd like to be there, regardless of the threat to my life. Seeing as I can not be there, I will resume my work at the nursing home and taking care of what needs taken care of here locally with family and friends or not so friendlies within the community.
As for death....
...someone posted earlier that they tell their child that death only comes once in life so to treasure it.
There is much wisdom in that statement. Just as there was much wisdom in the answer to the question (which I'm sure was meant to be sarcasm) Why does God create us so that we die? - Why not?
Again, I forget who posted that, but it does reflect a truth. That the creation was created by a perfect creator who's perfection we can not even begin to fathom. Therefore we could not even begin to comprehend the meaning of why or why not. We see things from a finite, human centric point of view, what we want or what we THINK is best.
Things are as we are, and until a shocking revelation comes about, we must go on about life and enjoy what time we got in a manner that will not cause regret or grief to our selves or those around us.
Besides, for a little clue, again the ancient texts and oral traditions time and time again tell of a paradise that was ruined because of man and his choices. So I think it's about time we compensate for that and come together. Not as Green Peace or some other bogus grass roots movement which seeks to empower the corporations and One World Government Agenda, but as sovereign children of the creator striving to learn from and grow in accord with what was intended. Which, from a scientific and logical point of view, must not be to become cunning, calculating, vengeful, angry, proud, etc. As scientific research (and common sense) will tell us, these things only serve to kill life, laughter, and serenity and therefore any progress what so ever.
Que Sera, Sera. Yes people will be born, and people will die, so let us take care of each other while we can, and remember those who we have lost. I go through this on a regular basis at the home. Being a lowly nurse aid, I spend the most time with the residents, grow fond of them, build up strong relations, become their sole provider, their reason to smile, their friend...
....only to watch them die time and time again at which point I must go in, clean up their shell, and send it off to the funeral home for arrangements.
Again, Que Sera, Sera.
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Also, has anyone ever noticed how The World Bank (The, IMF, FDIC, Federal Reserve and company) are never seen making financial contributions to causes? Rather people are brain trained that if they walk in circles for long enough, money will generate. Or if they attend enough benefit rock concerts, etc.
They never sell sports stadiums, or give sports and entertainers pay cuts to help take care of those in need. In fact, no matter how bad the economical climate, Sports Games are still being broadcast, and movie theatres are never in need of fresh material. Regardless of how bad things get, the indoctrination through entertainment process must go on...
Like wise, they claim the eco system is being harmed due to human farts and such, as if the towering sky scrapers, the crass industrialized food business, the poisonous products, the factories, the bi-products, the pollution, the cars, the un-disciplined greed, the bio-engineering and frankenstein experiements, are not making a MUCH greater impact than any fart could.
If the world is over populated, then tear down the cities, tear u the high ways, the golf courses, the military bases, etc. There is plenty of leg room when you remove all the obstructions.
I mean seriously, it is not like every time I take a walk in the country that I am walking shoulder to shoulder with a million other people. Stepping on children and old people and the like.
And yes, I understand China is over populated. You know why? Because the people who have the mishap of being (re)born there, are being held at gun point and can not leave.
It's all a giant farce to create global taxation and to remove more freedom from the people.
I don't say liberty because liberty are permissions given. No one gives me permission but the creator, and I am FINE thank you very much so long as I conform to the Creator's law. Dig your own hole!
Just some thoughts.
Your local Amiga hypocrite.
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>I'm more of one of those kind of people who like to help in the flesh, I'd like to be there, regardless of the threat to my life.
Yes, I'd like to be there. It don't think I'd have to my own money. i think I could get at least some of the material donated.
the marine transport industry has plenty of the equipment I've mentioned.
Findind a company is willing to donate the rock barge would take a little work.
The radiation suit 9andiu's want a good one , could be source for under $2000. the breathing equipment and the O2 would be a little more difficult.
Local companies in Japan ought to have cranes.
It would take some more volunteers and an airline willing to fly the team and equipment.
B
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>I'm more of one of those kind of people who like to help in the flesh, I'd like to be there, regardless of the threat to my life.
Yes, I'd like to be there. It don't think I'd have to my own money. i think I could get at least some of the material donated.
the marine transport industry has plenty of the equipment I've mentioned.
Findind a company is willing to donate the rock barge would take a little work.
The radiation suit 9andiu's want a good one , could be source for under $2000. the breathing equipment and the O2 would be a little more difficult.
Local companies in Japan ought to have cranes.
It would take some more volunteers and an airline willing to fly the team and equipment.
B
Hi,
@Iggy
You have a lot of heart man, but it takes more than heart to go into disasters like this, the U.S. Navy is there with probably HM-15 or HM-14 who are constantly picked to go into situations like this. These guys train for this and know how difficult situations can be. They use their big heavy lift helo's to help bring in supplies, lift heavy objects, and co-ordinate operations. If these guys can't do it, then it probably can't be done.
Remember these guys are trained pro's, if you went in there, you might be one of the people these guys would be carrying out, but anyhow we all want to help, take it from me just supply money to help support with food, water clothing, diapers, childrens clothes and shelter. Want to get a big thank you buy one of them a bottle of water during this time. It would be highly appreciated.
smerf
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>I'm more of one of those kind of people who like to help in the flesh, I'd like to be there, regardless of the threat to my life.
Yes, I'd like to be there. It don't think I'd have to donate a lot of my own money. i think I could get at least some of the material donated.
the marine transport industry has plenty of the equipment I've mentioned.
Finding a company is willing to donate the rock barge would take a little work.
The radiation suit 9andiu's want a good one , could be source for under $2000. the breathing equipment and the O2 would be a little more difficult.
Local companies in Japan ought to have cranes.
It would take some more volunteers and an airline willing to fly the team and equipment.
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@ Iggy
While I take my hat of to you for your sentiments and willingness to help out and put your money & time where your mouth is, I'm afraid you'd never get the chance to put it into practice... :(
The Japanese government are already complaining and trying to stop news teams and reporters from telling the truth about how bad things are, in the words of there government ministers "the western media is trying to show up Japan to the world in a bad light in this time of our national crisis"... :)
You could put together your plan and sail all the way there, but you can be assured the Japanese Navy would turn you back as they only allow specialised people in to help that they have given prior clearance to. With all the best will in the world they're not going to allow some total strangers anywhere near the reactor that hasn't been cleared or had their qualifications proven by those volunteers own governments...
Simple fact is you could be a terrorist for all they know, willing to sacrifice yourself to get hold of some plutonium to make a dirty bomb and neither the Japanese or any other government in the free world is going to let yourself or any other unknown volunteer anywhere near that site... :)
Time for a reality check Iggy, do your bit bit donating or encouraging others to do so but you need to get the idea out of your head that your going to be allowed anywhere near those reactors even if it was going to cost you your life... ;)