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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: mrozlog on March 09, 2011, 09:07:47 PM

Title: A3000 restart after 10 years having video issues
Post by: mrozlog on March 09, 2011, 09:07:47 PM
Hello All,

I have 2 A3000(s) and after getting the Amiga Forever 2011 (Premium Edition Upgrade) I decided to go out in my garage and set them back up.

I have one Commodore 1950 monitor and I have a standard VGA 21" monitor.  Both monitors are showing the same behavior, so I believe I can take the monitor is having issues off the table and focus on the A3000.

The first A3000 does not show any video interaction at all, I've checked all of the chips and they appear to be seeded correctly, again it does not matter the monitor I use it remains black.  It does sound like the A3000 is loading as normal the HD is going and sounds like my other A3000 that does have video out.  So I'm sure on how to hunt down this issue.

However, my second A3000 when either monitor is plugged in, it shows vertical scan lines and if I move the mouse I can sometimes see the picture or Workbench 3.0, please check out the attached pictures for what I'm talking about.  Again the chips appear to be seeded correctly, I just don't know what to try next.

Any input or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Mike
Title: Re: A3000 restart after 10 years having video issues
Post by: Zac67 on March 09, 2011, 09:25:33 PM
Video from the VGA port? Take a look at the battery - chances are that it's leaked badly and possibly destroyed Amber circuitry...
Title: Re: A3000 restart after 10 years having video issues
Post by: alexh on March 09, 2011, 09:39:21 PM
Switch to NTSC mode if possible to get 60Hz. (Should be default for USA A3000)

Try tweaking the Amber trim pot resistor (tiny screw next to the VGA connector, remember how many turns and what direction to return to beginning)?
Title: Re: A3000 restart after 10 years having video issues
Post by: mrozlog on March 10, 2011, 02:27:35 AM
Quote from: Zac67;620705
Video from the VGA port? Take a look at the battery - chances are that it's leaked badly and possibly destroyed Amber circuitry...

Actually that looks fairly good, no leakage (very lucky) and I will try to find a new battery and replace both just to be safe.  So Amber is looking good.

Mike
Title: Re: A3000 restart after 10 years having video issues
Post by: mrozlog on March 10, 2011, 02:31:30 AM
Quote from: alexh;620709
Switch to NTSC mode if possible to get 60Hz. (Should be default for USA A3000)

Try tweaking the Amber trim pot resistor (tiny screw next to the VGA connector, remember how many turns and what direction to return to beginning)?

Tried with both the 1950 monitor and the 21" VGA monitor, the video is the same.  I turned the screw clockwise no difference till it clicked, which was about 24 turns, went counter-clockwise 24 and then another 24 turns, no difference, turned it back clockwise 24 turns, so I should be back to where I was before.  

It is still displaying the image like in my attachments.

Mike
Title: Re: A3000 restart after 10 years having video issues
Post by: smerf on March 10, 2011, 02:36:07 AM
Hi,

Whenever I leave my A3000 off for a long time, I get the same, black screen, I leave it sit on for about 8 hours, check it every 2 hours by turning it off and then turning it back on. Usually about the third or fouth time it starts working correctly. I have two A3000's that do this.

smerf
Title: Re: A3000 restart after 10 years having video issues
Post by: coldfish on March 10, 2011, 03:12:56 AM
Dry Caps?
Title: Re: A3000 restart after 10 years having video issues
Post by: mrozlog on March 10, 2011, 06:49:36 AM
Quote from: coldfish;620796
Dry Caps?

Sorry I don't understand... Dry Caps???

Mike
Title: Re: A3000 restart after 10 years having video issues
Post by: alexh on March 10, 2011, 08:46:43 AM
Dry capacitors on the motherboard. A component on the motherboard which can fail over time.

Difficult to diagnose. Even more difficult to replace without expert help.

Will probably require sending your Amiga to a repair center. Not sure there is one in the USA... maybe AmigaKit?

Do you have the cable to connect the 1950 to the 23-pin RGB port?  That way you see if it is the AMBER circuit or the Amiga video circuit?

Have you tried the AMBER switch in both positions when the 1950 is connected to the 15-pin VGA connector?
Title: Re: A3000 restart after 10 years having video issues
Post by: mrozlog on March 10, 2011, 02:23:39 PM
Quote from: alexh;620834
Dry capacitors on the motherboard. A component on the motherboard which can fail over time.

:(

Difficult to diagnose. Even more difficult to replace without expert help.

:(

Will probably require sending your Amiga to a repair center. Not sure there is one in the USA... maybe AmigaKit?

MJR:  I will see what I can find

Do you have the cable to connect the 1950 to the 23-pin RGB port?  That way you see if it is the AMBER circuit or the Amiga video circuit?

MJR:  I think I do, I will have to search the house to find it!  :lol:  Since I've not used my Amiga(s) in about 10 years this should be fun.

Have you tried the AMBER switch in both positions when the 1950 is connected to the 15-pin VGA connector?

MJR:  When I click the Enable / Disable switch in the back, there is no difference in the display.

Off to search the house for  the 15/24 converter.

I will let you know.

Mike
Title: Re: A3000 restart after 10 years having video issues
Post by: alexh on March 10, 2011, 02:57:07 PM
You 100% certainly should see a difference when switching the Enable/Disable switch if connected to a VGA monitor (not the 1950) because when off the monitor should not be able to display the horizontal screen refresh rate of 15KHz

Find the adapter dongle and see if that makes any difference... it could help isolate where the fault is on the motherboard.
Title: Re: A3000 restart after 10 years having video issues
Post by: mrozlog on March 11, 2011, 03:05:41 AM
Quote from: alexh;620910
You 100% certainly should see a difference when switching the Enable/Disable switch if connected to a VGA monitor (not the 1950) because when off the monitor should not be able to display the horizontal screen refresh rate of 15KHz

Find the adapter dongle and see if that makes any difference... it could help isolate where the fault is on the motherboard.

MJR:  I did see a little but the overall picture stayed the same.  I'm going to put it back together and try my other box.  Not exactly sure what do try next.

I will keep you posted on my attempts - thanks to all so far!
Title: Re: A3000 restart after 10 years having video issues
Post by: mrozlog on March 11, 2011, 03:59:05 AM
Hi all.  I found the 24 pin converter, plugged it in, and there wasn't any difference in either the 1950 or my other monitor, and no difference when I toggled the switch.  I'm amazed I found the converter (in perfect condition I might add), but since it didn't work, I think I'll go cry now.  I'm not worthy to own an Amiga anymore.  :(

Mike


P.S. - I even found my original manuals, including all my great game manuals.  My wife and I just want to play some Black Gold again!
Title: Re: A3000 restart after 10 years having video issues
Post by: mrozlog on March 11, 2011, 04:12:27 AM
Just tried the converter with my 2nd A3000/1950 - the one I couldn't get any picture from - and it worked, but the picture is misaligned and the mouse is showing doubles and triples of it.  Any ideas?

Mike
Title: Re: A3000 restart after 10 years having video issues
Post by: alexh on March 11, 2011, 07:33:08 AM
Quote from: mrozlog;621076
there wasn't any difference in my other monitor

Wow, that means your other monitor is also a 15KHz capable (Amiga) monitor. OR it means that your Screen preferences is set to a software scandouble resolution (like double NTSC).... have a go at changing the workbench resolution if you can navigate to it (or at least identify which res it is set to).

Quote from: mrozlog;621076
and no difference when I toggled the switch

The switch only affects the AMBER (15-pin) output. It switches between 15KHz (off) and 31KHz (on).

Quote from: mrozlog;621079
Just tried the converter with my 2nd A3000/1950 - the one I couldn't get any picture from - and it worked, but the picture is misaligned and the mouse is showing doubles and triples of it.  Any ideas?

Hmmm I wonder why you get no picture on the AMBER output?? Find out what resolution you're in using screen-prefs. Try to change it to something else? Have a go using the overscan controls to re-center the picture?
Title: Re: A3000 restart after 10 years having video issues
Post by: coldfish on March 11, 2011, 07:33:12 AM
Sounds a bit like a workbench sync/refresh setting issue (if it isnt a hardware fault).  Have you tried booting an old game floppy or holding down both mouse buttons at startup?

If you just want to play a game you could always fall back on WinUAE.
Title: Re: A3000 restart after 10 years having video issues
Post by: Zac67 on March 11, 2011, 07:34:47 AM
Hmm...

Since the machine does work and isn't crashing I'd rule out chipmem problems for now. Possibly the Denise socket contacts have gone bad (or the chip's damaged), since you've got several machine at hand I'd examine the socket closely, try reseating Denise and/or try to swap it with another machine (a 500/2000/1000 Denise should work as well).
Title: Re: A3000 restart after 10 years having video issues
Post by: Tenacious on March 12, 2011, 05:09:56 PM
The 3000 was unique among Amigas in that the battery actually backed some vital memory location with system (video settings?) info in it.  IIRC, there was a utility on Aminet that reset those values to defaults in case they were lost.  Maybe the battery needs some up time to recharge (as has been pointed out.  I think the battery is a rechargeable NiCad.).

I wonder if the VGA-out is working now.  Have you tried it since getting the 23-pin video connector to work?  It might help to set the trim pot to mid-range and tweak from there for best VGA image quality.
Title: Re: A3000 restart after 10 years having video issues
Post by: Zac67 on March 12, 2011, 05:23:35 PM
The A3000 stores some data in its NVRAM, but I wouldn't actually call it vital... The settings safely fall back to sane defaults (SCSI HBA ID 7, fast HDD init, synchronous mode off). Check out http://aminet.net/package/driver/media/SCSIPrefs (http://aminet.net/package/driver/media/SCSIPrefs) for details.
Title: Re: A3000 restart after 10 years having video issues
Post by: vanderroll on March 12, 2011, 08:48:10 PM
Quote from: Zac67;620705
Video from the VGA port? Take a look at the battery - chances are that it's leaked badly and possibly destroyed Amber circuitry...

 
If you have the case(s) open just cut those batteries out because my A3000 was in storage for only 6 years and it had started to leak. I thought mine was ok but some of the ground track had started to lift off the board!!!, now replaced with a Ni-MH from Maplins.
Title: Re: A3000 restart after 10 years having video issues
Post by: Zac67 on March 12, 2011, 11:14:44 PM
Beware: Ni-MH batteries can leak as well...
Best solution is to move the battery to somewhere it can't do any harm. Or use a coin cell mod.
Title: Re: A3000 restart after 10 years having video issues
Post by: mrozlog on March 28, 2011, 08:01:33 AM
All,

Sort-of fixed the problem, I purchased a new working A3000 from ebay! :lol:

However, I still have two A3000s where the video is messed up.  On one box I pulled Denise on one... :furious:

As my luck has been going so well... Denise came out and so did all of the metal clips holding the chip in the chip-socket!!!  I was going to move one Denise from one box and move it to the other and visa-versa.  However, I'm not trying to find a 48 pin chip-socket so that I can remove the current one and replace it.  Oh-Joy!

My question I guess not is can I get a different graphic card so I don't have to mess with this?  I heard that I could get a RTG and that should work if I can find them...  Next question do I have to have Denise back in before I can try an RTG card?

Mike
Title: Re: A3000 restart after 10 years having video issues
Post by: alexh on March 28, 2011, 09:04:13 AM
Quote from: mrozlog;625243
Sort-of fixed the problem, I purchased a new working A3000 from ebay! :lol:

Sell the other two as spares/repairs to an enthusiast and make your money back.

Quote from: mrozlog;625243
My question I guess not is can I get a different graphic card so I don't have to mess with this?

No. All RTG cards take the Denise output as an input to their scandoubler. If it is the Denise at fault and not the AMBER then the video will be messed up on RTG card.

Quote from: mrozlog;625243
Next question do I have to have Denise back in before I can try an RTG card?

Of course. The A3000 with no denise socket is now useless until it is repaired.
Title: Re: A3000 restart after 10 years having video issues
Post by: Zac67 on March 28, 2011, 09:19:29 AM
Quote from: alexh;625247
No. All RTG cards take the Denise output as an input to their scandoubler. If it is the Denise at fault and not the AMBER then the video will be messed up on RTG card.

Err... Not really correct - not all RTG cards have a scandoubler or use Denise video passthrough. But Miggy just won't boot w/o Denise in place.
Title: Re: A3000 restart after 10 years having video issues
Post by: alexh on March 28, 2011, 01:56:00 PM
Ok, it should have read :

"RTG cards that can be used as a replacement to the standard Amiga output take the Denise output as an input to their scandoubler."