Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga community support ideas => Topic started by: vox on March 01, 2011, 08:21:09 PM
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Natami MX is coming to the almost production level.
Thomas Hirsch of the Natami Team has just manufactured the first Natami MX boards. This is the board revision that will be sold to the public, provided that the board bringup and hardware tests goes well.
Natami is a clone of the classic Amiga computer and its architecture. It is a 68k-based computer containing the classic Amiga chipset with enhancements and quite a few modern hardware features.
The MX board features:
-Altera FPGA from the Cyclone IV-series, containing the enhanced Amiga chipset "SuperAGA" as well as other system logic, and the brand new 68k CPU design "N68050"
-512 MB DDR2 SDRAM (onboard)
-1x PCI slot, expandable to 3x PCI with a PCI riser
-"SyncZorro" expansion slot, for adding f.e. a CPU card (68060 card will be available as an option for this slot)
-DVI-I port for 31kHz video (one can connect both analog VGA and digital DVI), scandoubling function for legacy modes
-15kHz RGB-output/input expansion slot (for optional 15kHz card)
-Realtek RTL8110 Gigabit Ethernet
-NEC USB2 controller and USB ports
-3,5 inch IDE port
-Internal Compact Flash connector (IDE)
-Kickstart flash memory
-Floppy connector (Amiga and PC drives both usable)
-Amiga serial port (although reduced to 9-pin)
-Amiga parallel port
-2x Amiga joystick/mouse port
-4x Cinch/RCA connectors for stereo sound output and input
-PS/2 keyboard/mouse ports (old bigbox Amiga keyboards are connectable)
-Classic Amiga LED:s along with scandoubler LED
Natami MX pictures:
http://www.natami.net/hardware.htm
Natami MX bringup thread:
http://www.natami.net/knowledge.php?b=1¬e=33366
Since its gonna be the strongest 68k so far, could we compile best software that could work on it, and help the team?
Same is for benefit of all emulator users, since everyone (even phones) can use UAE
Amiga OS 3.5 or OS 3.9
Boing Bags and extras
http://www.monkeyhouse.eclipse.co.uk/amiga/boingbag/
YAM 68k and many modern 68k software could run well
If possible, increase RAM to max
If you are really brave, AROS 68k
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Aros/Platforms/68k_support
Aminet, mass of things is still 68k
http://m68k.aminet.net/
If you really want to experiment, you could go ScalOS
http://scalos.noname.fr/
or download AmiKit on PC and take everything back to roots
http://amikit.amiga.sk/features.htm
DOPUS
http://www.gpsoft.com.au/amiga/Amiga...s/Amazing.html
http://www.linux-m68k.org/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga_software
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Let's first see if the Natami bring up will be successfull before making a lot of plans.
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Let's first see if the Natami bring up will be successfull before making a lot of plans.
OK, lets make best 68k library at one place, for all that can emulate 68k while wait for Natami!
What would be yout best OS and application choices if you had 060+ CPU power and 512mb RAM? What was Amigas 68k high end? Vista landscape processing, Morphing, early Lightwave, late Imagination, ImageFX, Alladin, Tornado?
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Let's first see if the Natami bring up will be successfull before making a lot of plans.
Dont forget any PC can emulate AmigaOS using Amikit and OS 3.5/OS 3.9CD
http://amikit.amiga.sk/
And your high end PC becomes high end Amiga without CUSA/Amiga Inc tax
With such DVD on sale (and all royalties paid to the authors) ex Amiga companies would have some Amiga revenue (and may be interested to make some AmigaOS comeback with 1 title) and users worldwide would get new Amiga feeling: Amiga without limits.
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OK, lets make best 68k library at one place, for all that can emulate 68k while wait for Natami!
What would be yout best OS and application choices if you had 060+ CPU power and 512mb RAM? What was Amigas 68k high end? Vista landscape processing, Morphing, early Lightwave, late Imagination, ImageFX, Alladin, Tornado?
Late Imagine, Real 3D, any more heavyweight champs?
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Also, it could be good to have all 68k improvements in kind of Better WB 2.0
http://lilliput.amiga-projects.net/BetterWB.htm
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http://www.linux-m68k.org/
I'm pretty sure the N68050 doesn't have an MMU, so no Linux.
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I'm pretty sure the N68050 doesn't have an MMU, so no Linux.
You don't "need" an MMU for Linux.
There are ports for embedded systems generally that don't require an MMU.
That being said, I love Linux.
I'm a Linux admin at work (which means I spend most of my day fixing Windows servers), but I plan on running AmigaOS on 68k..
desiv
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I'm pretty sure the N68050 doesn't have an MMU, so no Linux.
Could MMU be emulated? Its FPGA. Or doesn any 68k Linux that works without MMU exists?
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You don't "need" an MMU for Linux.
There are ports for embedded systems generally that don't require an MMU.
That being said, I love Linux.
I'm a Linux admin at work (which means I spend most of my day fixing Windows servers), but I plan on running AmigaOS on 68k..
desiv
I would kindly ask you if you have any ideas how to increase support of SAM and Pegasos and AmigaOne boards in PPC LInux distros?
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I would kindly ask you if you have any ideas how to increase support of SAM and Pegasos and AmigaOne boards in PPC LInux distros?
It's already in process.
There are PPC Linux ports.
There are also already projects for these:
For AmigaOne Linux:
http://amigaone-linux.sourceforge.net/
And SAM:
http://elwoodb.free.fr/articles/Sam440/
And PegaSOS:
http://powernico.free.fr/linux/linux_install.html
And I'm a Linux admin, not a kernel hacker. There's a difference.
It means I CAN write some code, but you REALLY don't want to run it ...anywhere.. :roflmao:
But there are people more qualified than I working on it..
desiv
(I'm more a Linux in the Datacenter kind of guy..)
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It's already in process.
There are PPC Linux ports.
There are also already projects for these:
For AmigaOne Linux:
http://amigaone-linux.sourceforge.net/
And SAM:
http://elwoodb.free.fr/articles/Sam440/
And PegaSOS:
http://powernico.free.fr/linux/linux_install.html
And I'm a Linux admin, not a kernel hacker. There's a difference.
It means I CAN write some code, but you REALLY don't want to run it ...anywhere.. :roflmao:
But there are people more qualified than I working on it..
desiv
(I'm more a Linux in the Datacenter kind of guy..)
OK, but how about informing all existing PPC Linux ports more boards exist as potential target? Mediating interst with Acube and whatever company that board is given for development or Amiga bounty of such kind with couple systems exist?
Yellow Dog Linux, latest Debian, fedora, open office, iceweasel ...
We need PPC Linux and its apps until such software is ported to AmigaoS 4 and MOS as well as is good to have Linux. Two last real alternatives together.
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Halle-freakin'-lujah! Now if it can only make it to "general availability for purchase" stage...
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A real dream of Classic users! Congratulations mates!
Now, it will be "north of 500 euros" for board.
And please, please build best Classic library, that we 68k emulation boys (phones, consoles, PCs, MOS, AmigaOS 4, AmiKit, WinUAE, Cloanto Amiga Forever)
can use! Above you see that you have resources to build BetterWB Monster Pack :-)
And there is AROS Kickstart too
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what gives??? another os4 fan(atic) runs over from awnet to aorg?? vox, you know, cusa threads are allowed here like everywhere else, so no excuse for bitching about them. and what makes you so high about natami all the sudden? calm down. stay clear of that unnecessary enthusiasm and you are safe.
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A list of most used software to test on the beta boards would be a novel idea.
I'd suggest OctaMED S. S. of course! ;)
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A list of most used software to test on the beta boards would be a novel idea.
I'd suggest OctaMED S. S. of course! ;)
DigiBooster 68k latest Beta and whatever yoiu music boys can come out. With FPGA boards Paula is there, same goes for Minimig 68000 14Mhz ECS 2MB CHIP 4MB FAST. Making a bootable 512MB or 1GB file would be great. Also there is AROS Kickstart, so freedom and updates to you and all of us that emulate 68k, Off course, Amiga Forever and Amiga Forever Deluxe deserve purchase by every user so you could have all legal kickstarts, nice interfrace and legal ADFs to start with. AresOne comes with it, best competitors to CUSA. If you need AROS and 68k emulation box, AresOne is to go! This pack should also make for it!
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If 68k softwate archive grows, everyone benefits.
A 30$ DVD could be assembled with royalties to all last versions of 68k software companies in contract with them. Why not giving last DPaint, Brilliance, Photogenics, Real3D for 2$ of DVD sale? And it would all be legal. Natami, Minimig would also benefit as avaliable 68k hadrware first time since A4000 and CD32. I am also legal OS 3.5 user, and it relates to me too, even my A1200 died.
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If 68k softwate archive grows, everyone benefits.
that wasnt less true all the time in the past. 68k is the common denominator since ever ...
now, aah, i see.. this moobunny leak?? thats why os4 guys desperately leave or flee under another banner. dont sink our boats guys.
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that wasnt less true all the time in the past. 68k is the common denominator since ever ...
now, aah, i see.. this moobunny leak?? thats why os4 guys desperately leave or flee under another banner. dont sink our boats guys.
Well, with upcoming JIT UAE OS4 boys can also benefit from it. I want perfect 68k Box under AmigaForever or OS4.
And respect Natami next level 68k power, waits to see its performance
as top 68k native hardware availiable in 2011
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EvCUqlEFo0
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hey, y'know natami isnt available yet. dont spoil it.
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hey, y'know natami isnt available yet. dont spoil it.
How is being excited for it (especially considering that they apparently actually have the final boards now) "spoiling it?"
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if you dont know what kind of "spoiling" im talking about take a look in natami forum for instance at posts by certain "atheist". "hoorey-optimizm" didnt benefit the hyperion fraction, please do not drag this plague into 68k camp.
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if you dont know what kind of "spoiling" im talking about take a look in natami forum for instance at posts by certain "atheist". "hoorey-optimizm" didnt benefit the hyperion fraction, please do not drag this plague into 68k camp.
??? I do not comprehend this post.
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fans being optimistic about natami or x1k for that matter will not make them better or sooner available. on the contrary: unrealistic expectations and delusional posts about such projects put people off rather than attract them. stay tuned but calm. thats what id say.
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This threads ruddy confusing... :confused:
Is it about Natami ???
Is it about OS4.x ???
Is it about neither ???
Is it about time, we had subtitles round here to help understand what some folk are saying... :)
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This threads ruddy confusing... :confused:
Is it about Natami ???
Is it about OS4.x ???
Is it about neither ???
Is it about time, we had subtitles round here to help understand what some folk are saying... :)
Its about 68k software. Only in one instance I have asked what are possibilities of PPC LImuxes supporting PPC boards. I might ask about 68k Linuxes supporting Classics, Natami and Minimig, but that is someway pushing too far :)
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fans being optimistic about natami or x1k for that matter will not make them better or sooner available. on the contrary: unrealistic expectations and delusional posts about such projects put people off rather than attract them. stay tuned but calm. thats what id say.
This is merely a software library idea. And it will be needed
Maybe its Hype, but that is first almost consumer Natami on the table after what? Six years?
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@ Vox
Wowsers... and folk say I post too much around here, reckon you'll soon be way out in front with your posting rate enthusiasm... :)
(PS:Handy tip... you don't need an individual post one after the other, you are allowed to put your response in the one post you know... :))
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@vox: a member of the team, i think the name was schoenweiss, was already gathering software to be released with natami. there even was a web page for it but it is lost now. if you are willing to help, why not register on their forum and volunteer? for what i see everybody is welcome. just do not let you get carried away about it like about os4, its only what i say.
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@vox: a member of the team, i think the name was schoenweiss, was already gathering software to be released with natami. there even was a web page for it but it is lost now. if you are willing to help, why not register on their forum and volunteer? for what i see everybody is welcome. just do not let you get carried away about it like about os4, its only what i say.
Intersted, but I am interested working in behalf all 68k software, especially in compiling last versions that can work emulated but yet half native (GUI, libs etc.) under MOS and OS4. Do you get it now?
Also AROS 68k software, does that exist at all?
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no, i dont really get whats this fuss about. you want all the 68k software on one dvd? you want help with something? or do you just want to go on talking?
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I must admit Im still a bit sceptical about Natami. I think there's a reasonable chance of it arriving at some pont, but apart from the ability to perhaps be an alternative to classic amigas and minimig I just cant see it doing much. Where's the new software coming from for one thing ? Apart from maybe a release title or 2 I cant see people being in a big rush to create new software for it. There's already significantly more powerful amiga like options out there than natami, and has been for many years, but even they dont have any new software (apart from open source ports). Not to mention that Natami wont even run some 68k software as well as exisiting 68k machines. (will quake 1 or 2 run well on them for example ('060 + voodoo3 runs Q2 acceptably, something Im very dubious of natami). I personally have emailed the Natami team a few times, being interested in developing for it but have received absoultely no responses. The whole thing reeks of an excercise in engineering with a bunch of hanger-ons wanting to big note themselves by calling themselves part of the "team" (and there's actually a few people involved I *know* are exactly like that, but I wont name names).
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It's new hardware, though, and a significant improvement over any baseline Amiga. That said, yeah, software might be a problem. On the other hand, it looked from some other threads like they were already porting SDL projects to it around a year ago, so that opens up a sizeable number of options from the open-source software world (doubly so if they can port one or two of the common interface toolkits.)
Yeah, it might not be as powerful as your 060+GPU setup, but on the other hand, it doesn't rely on a base system that's getting increasingly old and worn-out, and that's something right there.
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@ fishy_fiz
I don't get this "where's the new software coming from" thing, to me the main purpose of the Natami (should it ever arrive) would quite quite simply be an end to having to take your chances on the like of eBay buying old second hand Amigas or hardware in order to keep using it... :)
If (and lets say if) the NatAmi were to take off and do reasonably well for itself the I would be one of the ones writing new software for it, as at least you would then be able to write stuff that you knew everyone could use based on the NatAmi's lowest specs... :)
Plus the new GFX modes should open up a whole new opportunity to create some new and unique software once again, the last thing I want to do on an Amiga is run ports of Microsoft or Apple based software, the Amiga is a very different machine to all the others out there and to me that's the way it should remain... :)
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SDL software wont be an option for 68k software. Even an '060 struggles with all but the most simple (ie. space invaders/pacman style) SDL software. As for the new screenmodes, the modes it provides (and higher) have been available to the amiga for many years.
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SDL software wont be an option for 68k software. Even an '060 struggles with all but the most simple (ie. space invaders/pacman style) SDL software. As for the new screenmodes, the modes it provides (and higher) have been available to the amiga for many years.
Firstly... What's SDL software ???
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SDL is an open source, multiplatform api that can deal with gfx, audio, io, cdrom, etc. Basically (for conversations sake) it wraps itself around a host oses apis. The advantage being it's typically easy to port software using it to a platform that supports it, the disadvantage being it's not very efficient, especially in it's amiga incarnations.
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SDL is an open source, multiplatform api that can deal with gfx, audio, io, cdrom, etc. Basically (for conversations sake) it wraps itself around a host oses apis. The advantage being it's typically easy to port software using it to a platform that supports it, the disadvantage being it's not very efficient, especially in it's amiga incarnations.
Ok... Understood... :)
But you miss the point here of the NatAmi, it's designed with being able to write programmes for it in native Motorola 68K Assembler, it would be pretty pointless in writing software for it using the api you mention as this would simply not get the best from it unlike writting in native Assembler... :)
You also mention that the enhanced modes (ie:32 Bit TrueColour) have been available on the Amiga for years, by that I take it you mean RTG boards, again though your missing the point how many current Amiga hardware users own an RTG GFX board, not many I'd reckon, and most likely the reason why not very much was ever written to take advantage of them... :)
The way I see it is the default configuration of the NatAmi would become the de-facto standard for writing new stuff for it in good old M68K Assembler which it has been designed to make best use of... :)
It would be pretty pointless in the designers spending so much time and effort in making the NatAmi 100% backwards compatible with the M68k series of processors if all folk were going to do was write stuff for it using the kind of thing you mention, you be as well just buying Amiga Forever and writting stuff that way... :)
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I must admit Im still a bit sceptical about Natami. I think there's a reasonable chance of it arriving at some pont, but apart from the ability to perhaps be an alternative to classic amigas and minimig I just cant see it doing much. Where's the new software coming from for one thing ? Apart from maybe a release title or 2 I cant see people being in a big rush to create new software for it. There's already significantly more powerful amiga like options out there than natami, and has been for many years, but even they dont have any new software (apart from open source ports). Not to mention that Natami wont even run some 68k software as well as exisiting 68k machines. (will quake 1 or 2 run well on them for example ('060 + voodoo3 runs Q2 acceptably, something Im very dubious of natami). I personally have emailed the Natami team a few times, being interested in developing for it but have received absoultely no responses. The whole thing reeks of an excercise in engineering with a bunch of hanger-ons wanting to big note themselves by calling themselves part of the "team" (and there's actually a few people involved I *know* are exactly like that, but I wont name names).
Even anyone have right to be sceptical about Natami, 68k emulation such as UAE,AmiKit and OS4 and MOS users would benefit for updated 68k DVD oriented at applications, OS libraries and updates, not ADF game libraries.
We dont need to call it Natami DVD even,
how about "Amiga can do it"
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I'd say probably 1/3rd or more of current 68k amiga users have an rtg board of some description. Once upon a time it would have been more, but I think a lot of the "power users" moved on to MOS/OS4/aros. In addition to this I guess the vast majority of UAE users (the biggest part of the amiga user base these days) all have access to rtg modes). As for SDL software, I wasnt advocating it, in fact I was saying it wasnt a good idea on the back of someone else saying that some Natami people had been working on SDL ports. I think you also over estimate just how much stuff is written in 68k asm, its more or less a dead language, even to those that are still developing for the amiga.
The thing is though, why make a machine with enhanced hardware when all its going to do is drive up price and run exisiting software? Something like minimig + fpgarcade seems much more attractive if the idea was simply to offer alternate hardware to actual classics. They offer the same sort of benefits, with a much lower price and without being surrounded by so many clowns.
Another thing to consider is that the compatibility isnt even known yet. It's potentially an awful lot of money to take a gamble on.
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SDL software wont be an option for 68k software. Even an '060 struggles with all but the most simple (ie. space invaders/pacman style) SDL software. As for the new screenmodes, the modes it provides (and higher) have been available to the amiga for many years.
Idea of this DVD is NOT to explore what 68k can do with new CPU and custom chipset, but to find apps that are most likely to work everywhere, in their latest editions. I believe 1-2$ should go to copyright and software owner, and such contract could be make only if someone would be interested to "organize & centralize" (and earn the benefit for selling such DVD to everyone).
With Amiga Classsic filesizes double layer DVD 8.5GB could contain everything
most important and best. Including best ECS and AGA demos not in AVI.
Some tribute and few dolars yes to Amiga scene, to buy new hardware.
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I'd say probably 1/3rd or more of current 68k amiga users have an rtg board of some description. Once upon a time it would have been more, but I think a lot of the "power users" moved on to MOS/OS4/aros. In addition to this I guess the vast majority of UAE users (the biggest part of the amiga user base these days) all have access to rtg modes). As for SDL software, I wasnt advocating it, in fact I was saying it wasnt a good idea on the back of someone else saying that some Natami people had been working on SDL ports. I think you also over estimate just how much stuff is written in 68k asm, its more or less a dead language, even to those that are still developing for the amiga.
The thing is though, why make a machine with enhanced hardware when all its going to do is drive up price and run exisiting software? Something like minimig + fpgarcade seems much more attractive if the idea was simply to offer alternate hardware to actual classics. They offer the same sort of benefits, with a much lower price and without being surrounded by so many clowns.
Another thing to consider is that the compatibility isnt even known yet. It's potentially an awful lot of money to take a gamble on.
On such DVD we need separated AGA and RTG software. Who wants Natami will get it, because its their Amiga 6000 and let them enjoy it, just like SAM 460 is PCI-E, DDR2 and 1GHz+ SOC CPU for OS4
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@ Fishy_Fiz
I'd say your 1/3 or more figure is way off the mark, I wouldn't even put it as high as 1/4 more like an 1/8 (and that's being optimistic), anway, if it's advertised as 100% backwards compatible and it turns out not to be then it will be one hell of a big fail if that was the case... :)
Most Amiga stuff was written in 68K Assembler, the poorer quality stuff that ran not to the Amigas full potential were written mostly in C. Plenty of folk still write their own code in Assembler for the Amiga and it will most likely be they who write the new stuff for the Natami as well as those who prefer C... :)
Again you seem to miss the point here, it's not just about running existing software it's about being able to purchase a brand new bit of kit that's easy to add things like HDs, DVD Drives, USB etc... without having to rely on purchasing old second hand stuff that you can't guarantee will actually be working or how long it's going to last... :)
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SDL software wont be an option for 68k software.
Don't tell Novacoder that. Just let him continue on with his ScummVM ports.
:-)
desiv
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@fishy_fiz:
i think the active natami team devs atm are those that help gunnar with his game (i was asked to join to do exactly that, lol, but refused). on the other hand i ve heard of many knowledgable people who proposed their help with no response, which is really dumb in my opinion, because it could actually speed up the bringup very much.
besides, since ive seen you are looking for a programming challenge, maybe it would be better to help with middleware instead porting a single game. 68k sdl might use some speedup if feaqsable in fact, but even more important would be aros zune update to mui4 compatibility. there is even a bounty for that, which in effect would allow us to have mos owb on aros and particularly 68k. zune is being taken care atm and most things on 68k work correctly by now.
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It was only a few years ago when I was the only one without an rtg based amiga system amongst my group (of about 20 of us). I really think you underestimate how many people have things like a grex, a prometheus, a mediator, are using zorro slots, using isa slots, using a p5 gfx card and so on. I also think you vastly overestimate C vs. asm. A quick glance at aminet at any time in the last 5 years shows that asm is a minority language. Performance between code generated from a good c compiler isnt massively different to that written in asm, although the quality of the code is down to the coder as much as anything.
And Im absolutely not missing the point youre trying to make, but what you seem to be missing is that just because its new, doesnt mean it'll be reliable. As for compatibility, is 100% the actual target? Once upon a time likely compatibility was being touted at about 30%.
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Don't tell Novacoder that. Just let him continue on with his ScummVM ports.
:-)
desiv
Novacoder didnt use SDL for his ScummVM version. It was based on the exisitng AGA version + his own work.
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btw ive made a few 68k sdl ports and while most things are really too slow for an 060/50 there is some apparently well programmed and nost so demanding stuff that works well. so maybe it is not beyond a reason to tweak sdl yet a little.
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Apparently, ASM Pro is being updated...
http://www.natami.net/knowledge.php?b=6¬e=33870&z=Q3_xh4
The demo-coder scene seems to be anticipating NATAMI as well...
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Novacoder didnt use SDL for his ScummVM version. It was based on the exisitng AGA version + his own work.
Ooopps.
My bad..
desiv
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Ooopps.
My bad..
desiv
Anything but the SDL?
How much RTG software is out there now?
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Anyway, I'll leave the Natami threads alone from now on I guess. It's no secret by now that I think its just as farcical as anything else relating to new Amiga hardware (capital "A"), there's no need for me to keep harping on it. There is a couple of talented people involved and all credit to them for thier efforts, but Im dubious at best and find it mostly a clown show besides a couple of people involved.
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Don't tell Novacoder that. Just let him continue on with his ScummVM ports.
:-)
desiv
AmiKit on 68k :-)
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBUQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Famiga-manuals.xiik.net%2Fother%2FHow%2520to%2520install%2520AmiKit%2520on%2520real%2520Amiga%2520-%2520Manual-ENG.pdf&ei=o4RuTeTxN9XG4Abvx8zoDA&usg=AFQjCNFhH7RaH-mf481E5hgM-6iGr6k1JA
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How much RTG software is out there now?
Shedloads.
Doom/Heretic/Hexen/Quake/Quake2/Descent/Descent Freespace/Napalm/Earth 2140/Payback/Trapped/Trapped2/Genetic Species (via official update)/Nightlong/Feeble Files/Duke3d/AB3d-2:TKG (via patch)/Nemac IV/Onescapee/Ultimate Gloom/Zombie Massacre to name but a few games. Anything system friendly really. The list really is too long :)
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Anyway, I'll leave the Natami threads alone from now on I guess. It's no secret by now that I think its just as farcical as anything else relating to new Amiga hardware (capital "A"), there's no need for me to keep harping on it. There is a couple of talented people involved and all credit to them for thier efforts, but Im dubious at best and find it mostly a clown show besides a couple of people involved.
The point of threat not only to keep an eye on Natami now more then ever,
but that ALL OF US NEED one centralized "68k best off", in OS area, games area, RTG games and apps etc.
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The demo-coder scene seems to be anticipating NATAMI as well...
Really? I haven't seen much excitement, rather the opposite (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?p=615663#post615663).
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The point of threat not only to keep an eye on Natami now more then ever,
but that ALL OF US NEED one centralized "68k best off", in OS area, games area, RTG games and apps etc.
Sure, and I appologize for going off topic to the thread. I got a bit caught up in slightly off topic conversations within the thread, but I've said what I wanted to say now :)
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Really? I haven't seen much excitement, rather the opposite (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?p=615663#post615663).
I have to admit, the first thing I did when I saw a thread with "Natami" in the title was skim through looking for the obligatory Piru naysay comment. :D
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Really? I haven't seen much excitement, rather the opposite (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?p=615663#post615663).
Yes, and I've seen the opposite (http://www.natami.net/knowledge.php?b=2¬e=33760) of your opposite...
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I dont know that the actual website of a project is the best indication of the level of entusiasm :)
Even the sites by A.Inc and C-Usa would suggest enthusiasm by the community :)
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but rather when posts are faked?
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I dont know that the actual website of a project is the best indication of the level of entusiasm :)
Even the sites by A.Inc and C-Usa would suggest enthusiasm by the community :)
Khm, can we stay on topic and talk about best 68k software for AmigaS?