Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: sim085 on February 21, 2011, 09:39:31 AM
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Hello, I do not wish yo start any sort of dog fight, I just lost track on who owns (at least the code base) of AmigaOS. The last AmigaOS was developed by Hyperion Entertainment. Some months ago Hyperion Entertainment announced that they had agreed/settled with Amiga Inc. and that they will release a new version of AmigaOS. Then Commodore US entered in the scene. Amiga Inc. and Commodore US announced that they had an agreement on the Amiga brand name. Hyperion Entertainment cried foul and that is where I did not continue to follow. Now I was wondering; who owns what?
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Hyperion own the rights to develope future versions of AmigaOS 4 and above. Whatever Commodore USA is releasing is not AmigaOS.
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Hyperion own the rights to develope future versions of AmigaOS 4 and above. Whatever Commodore USA is releasing is not AmigaOS.
Yes, but can Hyperion release future versions of AmigaOS under the "Amiga" name?
http://www.osnews.com/story/23753/Commodore_Gets_Rights_to_Amiga_Hyperion_Takes_Legal_Action
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They can use the AmigaOS name not Amiga. Just like they can use AmigaOne on the A-Eon boards and not Amiga.
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Yes, but can Hyperion release future versions of AmigaOS under the "Amiga" name?
http://www.osnews.com/story/23753/Commodore_Gets_Rights_to_Amiga_Hyperion_Takes_Legal_Action
This link, just takes the cake right out of the mouth... LOOOOOL
Quote from the link:
"Unless proven otherwise, I'm assuming for now that Commodore USA is, at best, a hoax, and at worst, a very inept con. They are properly registered as an LLC, though."
:roflmao:
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Commodore USA are advertising Workbench 5 for their Amiga systems even though the Workbench trademark is owned by Clonato who registered the trademark after Amiga Inc let it expire.
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Hyperion own the rights to develope future versions of AmigaOS 4 and above. Whatever Commodore USA is releasing is not AmigaOS.
This is only what Amiga Inc. and Hyperion have agreed to should be the conduct between their companies after battling in court.
A legal clarification concerning if the rights actually were Amiga Inc:s to hand out from the start and how and to whom the Amiga rights got transferred, if it actually got transfered at all, is something that I suspect neither Amiga Inc nor Hyperion would like to happen.
Here is some research on the subject:
http://sites.google.com/site/freeamiga/
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Amiga Inc owns AmigaOS and the Amiga trademark. There are some licensing agreements with 3rd parties for various things, including Cloanto, Hyperion, Commodore USA and so on.
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Another great source is:
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=56613 (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=56613)
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zzzz Piru... Hyperion is the sole owner of AmigaOS, but you know this already.
News item: http://hyperion-entertainment.biz/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=134:hyperion-entertainment-cvba-and-amiga-inc-reach-settlement&catid=38:corporate&Itemid=18
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zzzz Piru... Hyperion is the sole owner of AmigaOS
No, actually they're not.
(http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/3651/amigainchyperionsettlem.png)
Of course some people have a selective reading capability, but there's little that can be done about it.
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At the end of the day who gives a S&!T who claims to own it if you want it scour the net and you'll find it... :)
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I think my mum owns it now.
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I think my mum owns it now.
Could you ask old mother gertsy if I can bung everything on one of my sites and set the stuff to roam freely in the wild where they belong... ta very glad... ;)
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OMG Franko your obsessed with the Doommaster!
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OMG Franko your obsessed with the Doommaster!
He's my second cousin twice removed on my late fathers side... :D
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Could you ask old mother gertsy if I can bung everything on one of my sites and set the stuff to roam freely in the wild where they belong... ta very glad... ;)
I had a chat to her Franko, she seemed keen, but once she found out you were related to Doomy she dropped the idea. She also mumbled something about squirrels with peanut allergies...
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Now I was wondering; who owns what?
In essence: I don't think anybody can give a 100% accurate picture of the ownership situation.
It's a mess.
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=616011&postcount=199
But one thing is sure though; *Hyperion doesn't own Amiga OS*, not any version of it. They have the right to develop their OS4 it and sell copies of it, and use Amiga OS components for that, but they can't for example sell it to some other company willing to pay $20,000,000 or whatever for taking over it, since they don't own it. They probably couldn't use it as collateral for a bank loans...
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Yes, but can Hyperion release future versions of AmigaOS under the "Amiga" name?
No.
They can use the name "amigaos", "amiga os", "amigaone" and "amiga one".
But not "Amiga".
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I had a chat to her Franko, she seemed keen, but once she found out you were related to Doomy she dropped the idea. She also mumbled something about squirrels with peanut allergies...
Damn cousin Doomy... spoils everything so he does... :(
Anyone know a good hitman... :D
(PS:me squiggles don't have peanut allergies, they love em... they hate cats though... :))
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It has been long established that Nicholas (from these very forums) owns the rights to the name at least.
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In essence: I don't think anybody can give a 100% accurate picture of the ownership situation.
It's a mess.
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=616011&postcount=199
Your freeamiga link is not Inquisitor's most recent writings, in case you did not know.
More current (http://twitter.com/freeamiga)
#6
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@number6:
Please stop linking to tmhg postings, my head hurts.
@all:
The situation is like this: If Gateway ever properly acquired AmigaOS (there are doubts about this, see inquisitor's excellent "Amiga Docs" report), and if we pretend that the current incarnation of Amiga Inc. can indeed provide all the paperwork to prove that the AmigaOS rights were properly transfered from Gateway to them somehow (Hyperion itself made quite some interesting points about that particular story before they settled with AInc), the settlement between Amiga and Hyperion defines the current situation like this:
Amiga Inc. owns AmigaOS 3.1. They did, however, license most of the things you can do with a software product to Hyperion - exclusively. Amiga might own the OS, but they're not allowed to call it "AmigaOS" and they're only allowed to use it in places nobody will ever get to see it (like an Amiga-in-a-joystick remake, that's mentioned as an example in the settlement). They're not even allowed to license it to a third party (only Hyperion has that priviledge). The settlement always refers to "AmigaOS 3.1". It is unclear - to me, at least - if this means "this particular version of AmigaOS" or "all versions of AmigaOS up until 3.1". I tend to assume the latter.
Hyperion has an (exclusive) license to distribute, modify, market etc. AmigaOS (not just OS4, we're talking AmigaOS in general). They have an (exclusive) license to call it AmigaOS. And they do own AmigaOS 4 - except for the code parts that are still left over from AmigaOS 3.1, obviously. They also have an (exclusive) license to the term "AmigaOne".
The settlement also contains a clause that stops Amiga from competing with Hyperion in the OS departement. I assume that's why Hyperion alleges that Amiga can't license the "Amiga" name to CUSA if the latter are distributing AROS - because that would actually be competition.
The "Workbench" trademark has been registered in the US by Cloanto years ago - Amiga are trying to stop the registration from becoming valid. This particular litigation is still going on, but Amiga's performance matches those in their previous legal disputes (i.e. it's abysmal). Let's wait and see who wins that one.
(Edit: Added info that AInc can not license AmigaOS to other parties).
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@number6:
Please stop linking to tmhg postings, my head hurts.
@all:
The situation is like this: If Gateway ever properly acquired AmigaOS (there are doubts about this, see inquisitor's excellent "Amiga Docs" report), and if we pretend that the current incarnation of Amiga Inc. can indeed provide all the paperwork to prove that the AmigaOS rights were properly transfered from Gateway to them somehow (Hyperion itself made quite some interesting points about that particular story before they settled with AInc), the settlement between Amiga and Hyperion defines the current situation like this:
Amiga Inc. owns AmigaOS 3.1. They did, however, license most of the things you can do with a software product to Hyperion - exclusively. Amiga might own the OS, but they're not allowed to call it "AmigaOS" and they're only allowed to use it in places nobody will ever get to see it (like an Amiga-in-a-joystick remake, that's mentioned as an example in the settlement). The settlement always refers to "AmigaOS 3.1". It is unclear - to me, at least - if this means "this particular version of AmigaOS" or "all versions of AmigaOS up until 3.1". I tend to assume the latter.
Hyperion has an (exclusive) license to distribute, modify, market etc. AmigaOS (not just OS4, we're talking AmigaOS in general). They have an (exclusive) license to call it AmigaOS. And they do own AmigaOS 4 - except for the code parts that are still left over from AmigaOS 3.1, obviously. They also have an (exclusive) license to the term "AmigaOne".
The settlement also contains a clause that stops Amiga from competing with Hyperion in the OS departement. I assume that's why Hyperion alleges that Amiga can't license the "Amiga" name to CUSA if the latter are distributing AROS - because that would actually be competition.
The "Workbench" trademark has been registered in the US by Cloanto years ago - Amiga are trying to stop the registration from becoming valid. This particular litigation is still going on, but Amiga's performance matches those in their previous legal disputes (i.e. it's abysmal). Let's wait and see who wins that one.
In agreement with your summary, even the bit about your head hurting.
Your specific comment relating to Amiga OS4, also explains to some degree why "Amiga OS", the more general term is still referred to at amiga.com
One bit maybe worth mentioning for those who question why those in authority do not post. The AI/Hyperion non-agression pact, also from the settlement probably precludes this.
#6
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@cgutjahr
You are mostly only repeating what I said, but in other words.
The settlement always refers to "AmigaOS 3.1". It is unclear - to me, at least - if this means "this particular version of AmigaOS" or "all versions of AmigaOS up until 3.1". I tend to assume the latter.
The settlement both refers to Amiga OS 3.1 (the software), and OS4. What do you think is unclear?
And they do own AmigaOS 4 - except for the code parts that are still left over from AmigaOS 3.1, obviously.
Which is *exactly* my point:
Hyperion has built a house (OS4). They have built it by heavily relying on construction materials that are *loaned* (Amiga OS 3.1/"the software"), and then they added their own stuff to the construction as well of course.
Well, Hyperion actually acknowledge in the settlement that the loaned bricks and planks (Amiga OS 3.1) used to build the OS4 house are indeed owned by Amiga Inc. And then Amiga Inc acknowledge in the settlement that the house is owned by Hyperion, *except* for the loaned bricks and planks they used to actually build the house, which *are still* owned by Amiga Inc!
Now, who owns the house? Not Hyperion, not Amiga Inc. They both exclusively owns their respective components in the house, their respective bricks and planks that was used to build the house. The problem is that they are forever mixed up and can't be separated.
The settlement also contains a clause that stops Amiga from competing with Hyperion in the OS departement. I assume that's why Hyperion alleges that Amiga can't license the "Amiga" name to CUSA if the latter are distributing AROS - because that would actually be competition.
That is obviously Hyperion's interpretation of it. How *they want it* to be.
But you must understand that Amiga Inc and Commodore USA *is not the same entity*, each responsible for their own actions, *but not for the others*.
Amiga Inc is in their full right to license the Amiga name to Commodore USA, which they have done. But they can't license it in combination with OS3.1 (or an OS with that API). And to the best of my knowledge, they have *not* done that.
But if Commodore *on their own* (being an own entity, with no contractual obligations whatsoever with Hyperion) decides to ship their products with AROS, what can Hyperion do about it? Nothing! Amiga Inc hasn't breached their settlement with Hyperion, and Commodore doesn't have any relations whatsoever with Hyperion. And none of the mentioned parties owns or controls AROS.
The "Workbench" trademark has been registered in the US by Cloanto years ago - Amiga are trying to stop the registration from becoming valid.
If you still are referring to Commodore, I don't think it has been decided what their OS will be called...
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You are mostly only repeating what I said, but in other words.
Good thing you're repeating it one more time then.
The settlement both refers to Amiga OS 3.1 (the software), and OS4. What do you think is unclear?
It refers to "AmigaOS 3.1". Does that include older versions, i.e. AmigaOS 1.3? That question isn't directed at you, just something I'm not 100% sure about.
Now, who owns the house?
I'm sorry, but you don't get it - and please stop with the house comparisons. Hyperion has a product called AmigaOS 4. They own it. They're the ones who distribute, advertise and sell it.
This product is made of a lot of single components - none of which are owned by Hyperion, as far as we know. They licensed ExecSG from the Friedens (allegedly), they licensed the new DOS from Tony Wyatt, they licensed the TCP stack from Olaf Barthel and they licensed some old code from Amiga.
We're talking about the software business, not buildings.
Not Hyperion, not Amiga Inc. They both exclusively owns their respective components in the house,
I know you're going to go all nuts about what I'm going to say now, but I can't resist:
For whatever reason, the settlement uses a lot of words to first state that AInc still own AmigaOS and then declare that all of the rights usually associated with owning something are exclusively and indefinitely licensed to Hyperion.
AInc 'owns' AmigaOS 3.1, but they're not allowed to...
- call it AmigaOS 3.1
- modify it
- license it to some third party
- sell it (unless they bundle it with "gaming content" and hide it from the customer's eyes)
while Hyperion is allowed to do all of those things (Hyperion is even allowed to persecute alleged copyright infringements on its own).
While it is legally wrong to claim that Hyperion owns AmigaOS, for all practical purposes, they can act like they own it.
But you must understand that Amiga Inc and Commodore USA *is not the same entity*, each responsible for their own actions, *but not for the others*.
Correct. That's why Hyperion threatened legal action against AInc, not CUSA.
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They have an (exclusive) license to call it AmigaOS. And they do own AmigaOS 4 - except for the code parts that are still left over from AmigaOS 3.1, obviously.
And ExecSG. Hyperion licenses ExecSG from the Friedens. The Friedens even had to sue Hyperion to keep Hyperion from claiming it was their product.
The settlement also contains a clause that stops Amiga from competing with Hyperion in the OS departement. I assume that's why Hyperion alleges that Amiga can't license the "Amiga" name to CUSA if the latter are distributing AROS - because that would actually be competition.
Hyperion has no say in what CUSA does. Ben Hermans thought he had a case when he first heard about CUSA, saying "you can bet we'll look into this". But there is no lawsuit, no cease-and-desist, he had to go sit back down in his corner and shut up. AInc. swatted his chubby little fingers away.
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And ExecSG. Hyperion licenses ExecSG from the Friedens. The Friedens even had to sue Hyperion to keep Hyperion from claiming it was their product.
Hyperion has no say in what CUSA does. Ben Hermans thought he had a case when he first heard about CUSA, saying "you can bet we'll look into this". But there is no lawsuit, no cease-and-desist, he had to go sit back down in his corner and shut up. AInc. swatted his chubby little fingers away.
The Euro lawsuit is well documented elsewhere. It had nothing to do with any grievance of the developers with Hyperion.
I won't comment n Amiga Inc's ability to swat, since cgutjahr is absolutely correct when he describes their won/lost legal record as abysmal.
#6
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I'm sorry, but you don't get it - and please stop with the house comparisons.
We're talking about the software business, not buildings.
Actually, the house example isn't that bad!
We are talking derivate work and copyright issues. Another example then; two authors writes a book together; the first person writes every *even* page, and the second person writes every *odd* page. Each contribution is forever mixed into one single product, and can never be separated again.
Now, who *owns* the book?
Add to that that *Hyperion's contribution is merely add-ons and improvements* to "the software" (which is the "real" IP here). They haven't created Amiga OS, they have modified and extended it.
I know you're going to go all nuts about what I'm going to say now, but I can't resist:
For whatever reason, the settlement uses a lot of words to first state that AInc still own AmigaOS and then declare that all of the rights usually associated with owning something are exclusively and indefinitely licensed to Hyperion.
Not the perhaps most important one (at least if you want to get rich); the right to sell the rights to it.
In fact, Hyperion have no control or influence at all over a situation where the IP might be sold...
AInc 'owns' AmigaOS 3.1, but they're not allowed to...
No, they *owns* Amiga OS! They have let Hyperion use it (for the duration of the contract, to be more exact). Hyperion can in no way claim ownership of Amiga OS.
While it is legally wrong to claim that Hyperion owns AmigaOS, for all practical purposes, they can act like they own it.
Not quite. They can develop it, sell individual copies of it, and sub-license it. That's about it. They don't own the thing. They don't own the trade marks "amigaos", "amiga os", "amigaone" or "amiga one" either, but have the right to use it.
If some venture capitalist or tech firm would approach Hyperion and say: "Hey, that's one cool OS you've got there, and we think the "Amiga" name still has some value! Here is an offer, we will buy the whole shebang for $4,500,000 (the amount Ben Hermans claimed Amiga Inc paid for the IP in some post, I don't know if the sum is correct), how about it?", then Hyperion, as tempted as they may be, *can't* do business!
But if the same people instead would approach Amiga Inc, they *can* do business. Then all Amiga IP could be sold, including trade marks. And then the corporate entity "Amiga Inc" could then simply be terminated, along with Hyperion's "right to use" contract.
See the difference?
And guess what has actually happened?
Pluritas ... is currently accepting offers to acquire the worldwide rights to the AMIGA trademarks and associated intellectual property (http://www.benzinga.com/press-releases/10/11/b566868/pluritas-engaged-by-amiga-inc-to-market-the-global-ip-rights-to-the-ico)
Correct. That's why Hyperion threatened legal action against AInc, not CUSA.
Which is a bogus threat, since they would have no grounds for that.
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Acer
Rights and patents where bought from Escom AG by Gateway2000.
Gateway never transfered these rights and patents to AmigaInc..
They sold the brand and the right to use the AOS.
In 2007 Gateway where bought by Acer.
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Kickstart 0.9-3.1 ownership is al that matters. All 3 potential owners are useless and have no positive benefit to "Amiga".
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Actually, the house example isn't that bad!
Yes it is. The only thing that would be worse would be a book analogy.
Another example then; two authors writes a book together;
Oh my. Let's talk about cars instead. Car analogies rule.
Add to that that *Hyperion's contribution is merely add-ons and improvements* to "the software"
Hyperion consists of 1-3 managers, Hyperion didn't make any "contributions" to AmigaOS. 3rd party contractors did.
In fact, Hyperion have no control or influence at all over a situation where the IP might be sold...
"The IP", i.e. the product that the buyer of said IP can't name, modify or sell to end users? Correct, Hyperion can't control that. I don't think that bothers them too much.
(for the duration of the contract, to be more exact)
I.e. indefinitely.
And then the corporate entity "Amiga Inc" could then simply be terminated, along with Hyperion's "right to use" contract.
That's just bogus. Obviously, Amiga Inc can only sell what they have - rights to the IP which are licensed exclusively to Hyperion (e.g. the trademark "AmigaOS", the right to modify AmigaOS sources etc.) can not be sold to a third party.
Pluritas ... is currently accepting offers to acquire the worldwide rights to the AMIGA trademarks and associated intellectual property (http://www.benzinga.com/press-releases/10/11/b566868/pluritas-engaged-by-amiga-inc-to-market-the-global-ip-rights-to-the-ico)
Yeah, there you can buy AmigaOS, but without the right to call it AmigaOS, without the right to modify it and without the right (more or less) to sell it to end users. Sounds like a hell of an opportunity to me.
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I do! actually quite a few versions too:afro:
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Yes it is. The only thing that would be worse would be a book analogy.
Oh my. Let's talk about cars instead. Car analogies rule.
No they don't, since they doesn't deal with derivate work and shared copyrights. What's so difficult to understand? Amiga Inc is *the sole owner* of Amiga OS. Period. Hyperion owns the various additions and modifications that turns it into "OS4", additions and modifications which are *utterly useless* without Amiga Inc's IP. You could say that Hyperion owns the components they have contributed with, but it would be a blatant lie to claim that Hyperion owns OS4 (or Amiga OS). And this is the topic of the thread - "Who owns Amiga OS?"
"The IP", i.e. the product that the buyer of said IP can't name, modify or sell to end users? Correct, Hyperion can't control that. I don't think that bothers them too much.
The "settlement" contract is between Hyperion and Amiga Inc, and no-one else. I'm sure that what any potential buyer is interested in, is the IP assets, and *not* the actual company "Amiga Inc", which is the one with that agreement with Hyperion.
Amiga Inc owns "the software" as well as the trade marks, etc, this is a well known "fact" (at least it's even acknowledged by Hyperion). That's what a buyer will take home, and simply leave in "Amiga Inc" what they don't want. I'm sure that Pluritas has all the papers in order. This is what they do all days...
I.e. indefinitely.
No, for the duration of the contract between the two entities. This is the difference with a *contractual loan* of IP, and *actual ownership* of IP. Ownership *does* matter!
That's just bogus. Obviously, Amiga Inc can only sell what they have
Yes, which is *all* the Amiga IP (except Hyperion's OS4 add-ons which, frankly speaking, I think everyone can live without).
rights to the IP which are licensed exclusively to Hyperion (e.g. the trademark "AmigaOS", the right to modify AmigaOS sources etc.) can not be sold to a third party.
Again, the "loan-contract" (for it is a loan, not ownership) can only live as long as the entities who signed it is alive (or it's revoked in another way). This is the difference between loan and actual ownership, which is why *it does matter* who owns the IP.
Sure, Amiga Inc has agreed that *they* won't sell Amiga OS to end users, etc, etc. And after the company "Amiga Inc" has been successfully dissolved after the interesting IP has been transfered, I don't think anyone will have to worry that they will... ;)
Some people sees the settlement as a victory for Hyperion. But what have they won? The right to sell a few hundred OS copies to the few X1000 owners that potentially will be here some day, as well as Sam 440/460? Not very exciting, and hardly worth the legal struggle they went through. Amiga Inc is the winner; the only thing they "lost" was the "OS4-addons". And frankly I don't think they will lose any sleep over that. They finally ended the legal struggle that postponed the sale of IP, which probably has been their goal for a decade now...
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Watching this fighting between company A and B and C and D just makes me think of a pack of dogs fighting over the last scraps of meat on a long dead carcass.
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Watching this fighting between company A and B and C and D just makes me think of a pack of dogs fighting over the last scraps of meat on a long dead carcass.
Welcome to the Amiga community ;)
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Watching this fighting between company A and B and C and D just makes me think of a pack of dogs fighting over the last scraps of meat on a long dead carcass.
A very appt analogy for exactly what has happened.
-Edit- except that there is no carcass anymore, just dust and memories.
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AROS owns, pwns, and screws AmigaOS over any day, tbh.
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There is no IP after this long, it's all just copyright for another 30, 50 or 70 years depending on what part of the planet you live on.
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It has been long established that Nicholas (from these very forums) owns the rights to the name at least.
I do indeed own the names Commodore and Amiga.
I am willing to licence these names at zero cost to both the AROS project and the MorphOS Team if either party requests to do so. :)
This offer is open to the Natami team too.
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Again, the "loan-contract" (for it is a loan, not ownership) can only live as long as the entities who signed it is alive (or it's revoked in another way).
Please go and read the agreement again. It contains a clause that prohibits transfer of the contract without Hyperions consent, It contains detailed rules how a 3rd party buying "stock or assets" has to comply with the agreement otherwise the purchase is deemed invalid - it even contains forms to be filled out by any potential purchaser. And last but not least, the agreement specifies exactly how a bancruptcy of any of the "Amiga parties" would have to be handled. The agreement even states that Hyperion is now a "secured creditor" of the Amiga parties, and specifies how/what/when Hyperion is allowed foreclosure.
IANAL, so this might all be bogus and not worth the paper it's written on. I can't judge that (and, tbh, I don't even care anymore) - but I'm pretty sure you can't either.
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Acer
Rights and patents where bought from Escom AG by Gateway2000.
Gateway never transfered these rights and patents to AmigaInc..
They sold the brand and the right to use the AOS.
In 2007 Gateway where bought by Acer.
Add to that the "stupid german judge" (tm) who couldn't find evidence that AmigaOS was part the deal when Escom bought the C=-corpse years before .....
Bout NotC=USA,Amino and HyperHyper:
Amino did have the rights to sell a licence for the name "Amiga" to NotC=USA, there is no doubt about it. NotC=USA is free to bundle every free SW to their HW no matter how much fuss HyperHyper makes.
HyperHyper !might! be able to sue Amino over that licence insisiting that every such licence would have to include some no-AROS-clause to comply with that settlement:
Possible outcomes:
- the judge jails Ben for wasting his time (yeah I know, but one can allways dream ;) )
- the judge decides that Amino fullfilled their duty out of the settlement
- the judges favors HyperHyper's view and awards them compesation .... against Amino. The NotC=USA-licence is not touched by that verdict.
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You know something... when I joined this site I thought it was for folk to talk about the Amiga computer... :)
But I now see through the whole scam... ;)
It's just a front for failed or wannabe lawyers to play "lets pretend I'm a lawyer cos I failed my law degree", or "That law degree I bought online was a fake can any other fake lawyer here advise..." :roflmao:
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You know something... when I joined this site I thought it was for folk to talk about the Amiga computer... :)
But I now see through the whole scam... ;)
It's just a front for failed or wannabe lawyers to play "lets pretend I'm a lawyer cos I failed my law degree", or "That law degree I bought online was a fake can any other fake lawyer here advise..." :roflmao:
Actually for the past 4 or 5 years, this has been a rather nice site, where people share Amiga problems, solutions and ideas... But for some reason you have been very keen on dragging up the past. What you fail to realise is your "personal" fixation as to who owns the right to call something Amiga is a war that was fought long ago, we all lost. Now we have our beloved Amiga's, emulators and NG solutions... Which most people just happily get on with using.
Once you get over your "One True Amiga" (tm) fixations, you will probably find this place far more agreeable!
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Actually for the past 4 or 5 years, this has been a rather nice site, where people share Amiga problems, solutions and ideas... But for some reason you have been very keen on dragging up the past. What you fail to realise is your "personal" fixation as to who owns the right to call something Amiga is a war that was fought long ago, we all lost. Now we have our beloved Amiga's, emulators and NG solutions... Which most people just happily get on with using.
Once you get over your "One True Amiga" (tm) fixations, you will probably find this place far more agreeable!
Erm... I didn't start these threads or hadn't you noticed that, I've not been dragging up the past the CUSA stuff is the present if you hadn't noticed.
The who owns what may have been fought a long time ago, but as you don't seem to be able to comprehend the simple fact that it's still going on right now with the CUSA BS.
My "Personal Fixation" as you call it, has nothing to do with the past it's about what is happening now (a case of history repeating itself).
While most people happily get on with using their Amigas, I am one of them and been doing so non stop since 1986 and have never left the Amiga to go to any other platform or emulator.
People do post Amiga hardware/software problems here and I do my best when I can to try and help them.
Strange how you always pop up in these type of threads though with your opinions and yet you now claim things were a lot nicer in recent years without them.
Why do you post in such threads then if you don't like them or you think that things aren't "nice" anymore !!!
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Erm... I didn't start these threads or hadn't you noticed that, I've not been dragging up the past the CUSA stuff is the present if you hadn't noticed.
I may be wrong, but I got the feeling he was talking about that brief period you went through of digging up ancient threads.
Although in recent months there have been many (not by you it has to be said) threads dredging up the past, if not the old threads themselves.
Like you said, most people just want to get on and enjoy their hobbies. But these sorts of threads from comparative newbies do tend to stir up the worst within the community, as you yourself have seen on a few occasions. Not your fault any more than it is theirs, but there it is.
Strange how you always pop up in these type of threads though with your opinions and yet you now claim things were a lot nicer in recent years without them.
As with the above, with self imposed exile of many of the hardline OS4 crowd to the then newly rebuilt AW.net site this place became a much more calm place. Truly, the years between 2002-2005 or so were dark, for everyone.
Why do you post in such threads then if you don't like them or you think that things aren't "nice" anymore !!!
I think perhaps you've caught the wrong end of the stick on this one.
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I may be wrong, but I got the feeling he was talking about that brief period you went through of digging up ancient threads.
I know the one you're talking about and yes it did lead to a wee bit of bother but it was only dug up by sheer chance when I followed one of those google spiders that was scouring the site and I thought it was quite an interesting thread... :)
Still it ended up quite funny in the end, but I learned my lesson on that one... :)
Although in recent months there have been many (not by you it has to be said) threads dredging up the past, if not the old threads themselves.
Like you said, most people just want to get on and enjoy their hobbies. But these sorts of threads from comparative newbies do tend to stir up the worst within the community, as you yourself have seen on a few occasions. Not your fault any more than it is theirs, but there it is.
Agreed but I can see how new folk to the site can find some of the old threads interesting and in light of recent events with CUSA I can also see how they may consider these threads relevant to today... :)
As with the above, with self imposed exile of many of the hardline OS4 crowd to the then newly rebuilt AW.net site this place became a much more calm place. Truly, the years between 2002-2005 or so were dark, for everyone.
Being a member of AW.net myself I don't go there often (in fact I think I'm banned) due to the totally biased views of the OS4 mob there...
I think perhaps you've caught the wrong end of the stick on this one.
Maybe your right, seems to me bloodline has lost his sense of humour these days, who knows... :)
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Erm... I didn't start these threads or hadn't you noticed that, I've not been dragging up the past the CUSA stuff is the present if you hadn't noticed.
Really... My point, which I didn't make very clear, is that we have had company x popping up a few times a year claiming to be the saviour of the Amiga/Commodore etc... A few gullible people get excited, often the same few... Everyone else ignores it, then everything dies down and we all get on with it.
My advice is to stop getting so excited about C=USA and worry about it if it actually does something.
The who owns what may have been fought a long time ago, but as you don't seem to be able to comprehend the simple fact that it's still going on right now with the CUSA BS.
Sure the IP is tossed around like a wet sock, but most of us have moved on. I'd actually be impressed if ANY company could use either the Amiga or Commodore brand to sell any computers now.
Seriously good luck to them!
My "Personal Fixation" as you call it, has nothing to do with the past it's about what is happening now (a case of history repeating itself).
Your fixation is a relic of the past, we all used to feel the way you do now. But you are ignorant of the Amiga's (recent) history.
While most people happily get on with using their Amigas, I am one of them and been doing so non stop since 1986 and have never left the Amiga to go to any other platform or emulator.
And those that moved on, but still love and use Amiga solutions are lesser users? Of course not, we are all that is left of the once mighty Amiga community.
People do post Amiga hardware/software problems here and I do my best when I can to try and help them.
I try and help Amiga users regardless of the platform they now use... I will refer back to the assistance we provided to get your Mac working.
Strange how you always pop up in these type of threads though with your opinions and yet you now claim things were a lot nicer in recent years without them.
Hey, you seem to think Amiga.org is some horrible antiamiga distopia! It is your AntiAmiga.org that I object to! I love this place and these threads :)
Why do you post in such threads then if you don't like them or you think that things aren't "nice" anymore !!!
I love these kind of threads, I especially like the reasoned logical arguments that many users here are quite good at.
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Really... My point, which I didn't make very clear, is that we have had company x popping up a few times a year claiming to be the saviour of the Amiga/Commodore etc... A few gullible people get excited, often the same few... Everyone else ignores it, then everything dies down and we all get on with it.
You really don't have a clue as to what you are actually saying when you type a post do you.
"A few gullible people" !!!
Why do these threads tend to dominate the home page and get more views and responses (including from the mods and site admins) than most other threads here, must be a hell of a lot of excited and gullible people here in that case.
My advice is to stop getting so excited about C=USA and worry about it if it actually does something.
Sure the IP is tossed around like a wet sock, but most of us have moved on. I'd actually be impressed if ANY company could use either the Amiga or Commodore brand to sell any computers now.
Seriously good luck to them!
Odd... never considered anything exciting about CUSA.
Your fixation is a relic of the past, we all used to feel the way you do now. But you are ignorant of the Amiga's (recent) history.
That's your opinion, but I've probably forgotten more about the Amiga than you'll ever hope to know.
I try and help Amiga users regardless of the platform they now use... I will refer back to the assistance we provided to get your Mac working.
And I have thanked one and all for that.
Hey, you seem to think Amiga.org is some horrible antiamiga distopia! It is your AntiAmiga.org that I object to! I love this place and these threads :)
You really "think" and say some utter cobblers at times... AntiAmiga.org !!! I think you've been sniffing too many socks lately.
I love these kind of threads, I especially like the reasoned logical arguments that many users here are quite good at.
You "love these kind of threads" but do nothing but complain and moan about them belonging in the past !!!
It's a shame you're not one of those logical ones that post reasoned arguments.
Point proven, you don't have a scooby doo about what you type or say here do you... ;)
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You really don't have a clue as to what you are actually saying when you type a post do you.
The topic of this thread is the ownership of AmigaOS. If you don't want to discuss that, it would be polite to stay out of the thread. And cut down on the insults somewhat, will you?
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The topic of this thread is the ownership of AmigaOS. If you don't want to discuss that, it would be polite to stay out of the thread. And cut down on the insults somewhat, will you?
Who do think you are mate, don't tell me what's polite or what to say and keep your big nose out of other peoples petty arguments...
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(http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q285/the_leander/3192435737_6d81f4bb88.jpg)
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Who do think you are mate, don't tell me what's polite or what to say and keep your big nose out of other peoples petty arguments...
ROFL, Franko you crack me up. You can go into a off topic debate and insult long time AO users and you get all upset that someone call you on it? If you really don't want people to add their two cents in a debate, go take your issues to PMs or just enjoy all the replies you get.
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ROFL, Franko you crack me up. You can go into a off topic debate and insult long time AO users and you get all upset that someone call you on it? If you really don't want people to add their two cents in a debate, go take your issues to PMs or just enjoy all the replies you get.
Ahh... Randy, was wondering when you'd pop up. Never insulted any one just spoke my mind and replied to a "long time AO user" in kind...
I do enjoy the replies I get otherwise there would be no point in responding to them, just like I always enjoy replying to most of your posts you make, no matter how off topic they are or the fact that they were nothing to do with you in the first place... ;)
Wow... never knew that "long time AO users" had special privileges round here...
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Ahh... Randy, was wondering when you'd pop up. Never insulted any one just spoke my mind and replied to a "long time AO user" in kind...
Well Franky, you should consider others on how they may read your words. You may not mean to be insulting with your wording, but it's easily read many others as insulting.
I do enjoy the replies I get otherwise there would be no point in responding to them, just like I always enjoy replying to most of your posts you make, no matter how off topic they are or the fact that they were nothing to do with you in the first place... ;)
Yet you were rude to cgutjahr by saying Who do think you are mate, don't tell me what's polite or what to say and keep your big nose out of other peoples petty arguments...
. That shows how mean spirited you are to others for pointing your behavior is pushing the bounds of civility. That sure does not sound like you enjoy your replying to him, now does it?
Wow... never knew that "long time AO users" had special privileges round here...
You are a typical n00b, no respect for those who have been posting on AO for nearly ten years.
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Well Franky, you should consider others on how they may read your words. You may not mean to be insulting with your wording, but it's easily read many others as insulting.
As you or the others who may feel insulted by the way I word things in posts, you have obviously not bothered to read what I have said here on many occasions, "unless I'm answering a question about someones amiga related hardware or software problems, then don't take anything I have to say seriously"
Easy enough to understand... :)
Yet you were rude to cgutjahr by saying . That shows how mean spirited you are to others for pointing your behavior is pushing the bounds of civility. That sure does not sound like you enjoy your replying to him, now does it?
Never ever claimed I was civil and I wasn't rude to him just replying to his post. If you think that was rude then gawd knows how you'd manage if you ever left your keyboard and ventured out into the real world :lol:
Odd someone like you complaining about such things when you began with the petty name calling on me in a recent thread. Don't be such a hypocrite Randy... ;)
You are a typical n00b, no respect for those who have been posting on AO for nearly ten years.
Wow that coming from someone who's a bigger n00b than me (and if you don't get that one then forget it).
Respect is earned not give away just because you've been here for ten years. I personally know people who have been in prison for ten years and longer, does that mean they deserve my respect too !!!
You can't make a good argument can you, try harder Randy old chap... :)
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You really don't have a clue as to what you are actually saying when you type a post do you.
Ok, calm down... If this were real life we'd be having some banter over a couple of pints and a packet of dry roasted.
I'm just typing my thoughts as we all are, I've got a pretty good idea what I want to say, and while it can be hard to get a subtle point across, always try and look for one.
"A few gullible people" !!!
Why do these threads tend to dominate the home page and get more views and responses (including from the mods and site admins) than most other threads here, must be a hell of a lot of excited and gullible people here in that case.
This thread isn't really about C=USA, it's about the mess A Inc and Hyperion (let us not forget Eyetech too) made of their part of their involvement with the Amiga, there were other companies involved too, but that is another thread.
The interest in this thread comes from our ghoulish desire to look at the corpse of Amiga being manipulated by the incompetent and the greedy.
Odd... never considered anything exciting about CUSA.
C=USA does excite you, just not in a positive way. I think you should just forget about it :)
That's your opinion, but I've probably forgotten more about the Amiga than you'll ever hope to know.
That's a bit harsh, but probably true now... I was looking back at my old source code (hoping to port something to the iPhone) and realised that I couldn't remember what any of the regs did anymore... and I can only find my OCS hardware ref :(
And I have thanked one and all for that.
Hopefully you will learn to love your Mac as you do your Amigas :)
You really "think" and say some utter cobblers at times... AntiAmiga.org !!! I think you've been sniffing too many socks lately.
Hmmm, I have said some utter shyte in the past, but I do try and think about what I say now. If you don't agree with what I say simply point out my error, cite some refs and I'll listen.
I've done far worse than sniff them.
You "love these kind of threads" but do nothing but complain and moan about them belonging in the past !!!
Not these threads, but the attitude I perceive from you. Could be my failing, but I've lived through the Amiga religious war, I know how you feel.
It's a shame you're not one of those logical ones that post reasoned arguments.
Hmmm, I honestly try to be logical... though I'm always tempted by a joke, and will take that option if available :P
Point proven, you don't have a scooby doo about what you type or say here do you... ;)
Please back up what you say with references, or you just being offensive!
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Why is it when two islanders are going at it, it still sounds like they are complimenting each others wardrobe?
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The interest in this thread comes from our ghoulish desire to look at the corpse of Amiga being manipulated by the incompetent and the greedy.
Now that is a well turned phrase!
Frankly, I'm suspicious of anyone attempting to use the Amiga name to market products.
We have laws in my State against the abuse of a corpse.
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Ok, calm down... If this were real life we'd be having some banter over a couple of pints and a packet of dry roasted.
I'm just typing my thoughts as we all are, I've got a pretty good idea what I want to say, and while it can be hard to get a subtle point across, always try and look for one.
Okey dokey, agreed on that point... :)
And to be honest I'm fed up with all this cutting and pasting posts and trying to feed the squirrels at the same time... :)
Never take anything I say as offensive, I post the same way as I talk, it's just how we all talk in this neck of the woods and very rarely do we ever fall out over it... :)
Gotta admit though, just like in the real world with friends & family I'm a bit of a wind up merchant and if you knew me personally you'd understand that.
Only once has it ever led to physical violence when an American geezer on holiday here who joined our crowd in the pub couldn't understand my "humour" and cracked me over the skull with a bottle of bud... :)
It's really just my way of saying things and I guess unless you live round these parts or understand the kind of people we are here, then I suppose things like I say can be a bit misunderstood or misconstrued by outsiders or those not from our village... ;)
Reckon I'll give it a break for today after I say something to thebilgerat... :)
@TheBilgeRat
Oi you... ya scabby wee rat faced git you... :madashell:
Scotland is NOT an island it a ruddy country, Heck even Englands a Country, just cos your's is bigger than ours doesn't mean you have to slag us off for it... ;)
Now Ireland on the other hand, that's a wee pokey island full of strange talking folk... :D
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Now I was wondering; who owns what?
Oh, I do. Have a copy of Amiga OS 3.0 right here!
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@TheBilgeRat
Oi you... ya scabby wee rat faced git you... :madashell:
Scotland is NOT an island it a ruddy country, Heck even Englands a Country, just cos your's is bigger than ours doesn't mean you have to slag us off for it... ;)
You like my shoes? Thanks - bought them on sale at the REI... :D
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Can we have subtitles in here... :)
I never said I licked your shoesies... :)
PS: Whatsa REI ???
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So, the answer is probably Amiga inc. but no one really knows for sure.
But it leads to a more difficult question:
Who owns Kickstart /Workbench 3.2?
Amiga inc. don't appear to have any claim to it and it'll certainly not be Hyperion, so who is it?
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And last but not least, the agreement specifies exactly how a bancruptcy of any of the "Amiga parties" would have to be handled.
You're referring to the leins?
#6
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So, the answer is probably Amiga inc. but no one really knows for sure.
But it leads to a more difficult question:
Who owns Kickstart /Workbench 3.2?
Amiga inc. don't appear to have any claim to it and it'll certainly not be Hyperion, so who is it?
Petro? :)
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Hello, I do not wish yo start any sort of dog fight, I just lost track on who owns (at least the code base) of AmigaOS. The last AmigaOS was developed by Hyperion Entertainment. Some months ago Hyperion Entertainment announced that they had agreed/settled with Amiga Inc. and that they will release a new version of AmigaOS. Then Commodore US entered in the scene. Amiga Inc. and Commodore US announced that they had an agreement on the Amiga brand name. Hyperion Entertainment cried foul and that is where I did not continue to follow. Now I was wondering; who owns what?
Hi,
I own Amiga OS, it came with my original Amiga 1000 back in 1985, it also came with my Amiga 4000 in 1992, and my Amiga 1200 in 1997. So I own Amiga OS 1.0, 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 3.0, 3.1, 3.5, and 3.9. Purchased everyone that didn't come with an Amiga. Sure nuff did.
smerf
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Hi,
@Franko,
Only once has it ever led to physical violence when an American geezer on holiday here who joined our crowd in the pub couldn't understand my "humour" and cracked me over the skull with a bottle of bud...
Damn American,
Not only didn't he understand your sense of humor, he didn't know what kind of beer to drink, but breaking the bottle of Bud over your head, at least he didn't waste a good beer.
Now Ireland on the other hand, that's a wee pokey island full of strange talking folk... and just what part of Ireland is the city of Scotland in.
Ah yes lass the wee people are going to pay you a visit.
smerf
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Hi Smerf... :)
Naw... the bottle didn't break, just made a bit of a bump on the back of my napper and a strange hollow sound... :)
Can't remember the guys name but I do recall he came from Washington State, and it was something to with my comment that Washington was indeed in a ruddy state that he bonked me over the noggin with the bud... :)
Still it all turned out quite well after a few blows were thrown we all sat down and had a good laugh and got even more tipsy as the night wore on... we never saw him again after that but he had the weirdest accent ever, bit like a cross between Bob Hope and Shirley Temple with a bunged up nose... :)
Now on a more serious not Scotland is not an ISLAND nor is it a wee CITY somewhere in the land of the wee folk, it's a ruddy well (almost) independent COUNTRY that just so happen to float about between the Irish & North seas, with a tacky wee place called England nailed on to the bottom half of it... :)
The wee people visit me every day, to get their daily dose of nuts, I've got the foties to prove it... ;)
Cheers
Franko
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Hi,
@Franko,
Just don't let the wee people go wee wee all over the place.
smerf