Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga community support ideas => Topic started by: nicholas on February 20, 2011, 11:40:46 PM
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Dear Friends,
I have just read and signed the online petition:
"Amiga Guru Book publication"
hosted on the web by PetitionOnline.com, the free online petition
service, at:
http://www.petitiononline.com/4m1ga123/
I personally agree with what this petition says, and I think you might
agree, too. If you can spare a moment, please take a look, and consider
signing yourself.
Best wishes,
Nicholas
If you don't know what this is about you don't need to know.
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If you don't know what this is about you don't need to know.
Humm... (http://babel.de/amiga.html#doc)
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I signed this long time ago.
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Humm... (http://babel.de/amiga.html#doc)
Unfortunately, the release of the 800-page extended edition of the Amiga Guru Book (covering OS 3.x and beyond) scheduled for April 2008 was preempted by some fool seeding a scan of the older version into one of those pirate-to-pirate networks, eliminating all hopes of me ever being able to recover the cost of a reprint, so the project had to be stopped immediately to avoid further loss of time and money. Thank you, Keith.
Hence why:
To: Ralph Babel
I would be interested in purchasing at least one copy of Ralph Babel's Amiga Guru book (http://www.iol.ie/~ecarroll/gurubook.html (http://www.iol.ie/%7Eecarroll/gurubook.html)) in English language form, despite the existence of a pirated pdf copy on the Internet.
Sincerely,
The Undersigned
:rolleyes:
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Right... well... don't need another copy, and a reprint of the second edition seems silly if an extended edition could be made available. That petition doesn't really make it clear what the target is... but old threads here probably cover that. 1 (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=36367) 2 (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=47404)
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Right... well... don't need another copy, and a reprint of the second edition seems silly if an extended edition could be made available.
Some of us don't have a printed copy and would like one.
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Eh.
Option 1:
Release it as print on demand. Im sure the community would rather have the book, even if it means a bit lower quality (and POD has gotten damn good in recent years).
He states that he doesn't intend to make money off it, so why not?
Option 2:
Ransom it. Declare how much money you want to release it for free in PDF. Once that amount is pledged through a service that facilitates this, he makes the PDF or whatever available for free. Everybody wins.
He states that he doesn't want to release it in PDF, but its 2011.
On one end of the axis is "perfect", on the other end is "stuff actually happening". The two rarely meet
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I think option 3 happened, just let it rot. It's sad it never came out.
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It's estimated that while two to three years e-books will go from 10% of the market in the developed world to 50%. Printed books are about to go the way of printed newspapers and buggy whips....
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It's estimated that while two to three years e-books will go from 10% of the market in the developed world to 50%. Printed books are about to go the way of printed newspapers and buggy whips....
Yes, Amiga.org is switching from paper to digital too. The site is just too big when it's printed out. Franko been complaining when he has to print it everyday for us.
:laughing:
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Yes, Amiga.org is switching from paper to digital too. The site is just too big when it's printed out. Franko been complaining when he has to print it everyday for us.
:laughing:
Nice!
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A conspiracy theorist might say that Ralph himself played some part in the torrent distribution. It was virtually unknown before Ralph announced it. So, cheers to Ralph for advertising and possibly seeding what may or not have been an intentional leak of his original opus.
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A conspiracy theorist might say that Ralph himself played some part in the torrent distribution. It was virtually unknown before Ralph announced it. So, cheers to Ralph for advertising and possibly seeding what may or not have been an intentional leak of his original opus.
From what I know about Ralph, I would say that this theory does not hold water. I'd expect the Pope to convert to Buddhism first.
As for virtually unknown, Ralph was and still is a highly respected figure in the German-speaking Amiga community. He's been around since the very beginning, and the depth and scope of his knowledge is without compare. Local hero and everything, it's a matter of perspective.
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I meant that the torrent was unknown until Ralph himself publicized it. Perhaps it was common knowledge in Europe. There's a bit of a divide between the European and American Amiga communities. Regardless, Ralph's response was childish. It only served to alienate his English-speaking neighbors.
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I meant that the torrent was unknown until Ralph himself publicized it. Perhaps it was common knowledge in Europe. There's a bit of a divide between the European and American Amiga communities.
OK, I understand what you mean.
Regardless, Ralph's response was childish. It only served to alienate his English-speaking neighbors.
Well, Ralph is Ralph. He keeps his own council.
Could be that time has mellowed him a bit and changed his opinion on publishing the book. By now it's almost common knowledge that selling the rare and the printed word will benefit from the attention generated by piracy. Which is a weird consequence of something that isn't supposed to be helpful in the first place.
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Ralph has a real talent for expressing highly technical ideas in a way that's still accessible to the average computer nerd. Despite his knowledge and status, he's also a very nice guy and has politely answered my silly questions anytime I've asked. I'd be absolutely thrilled if the book was published.
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I wish we could create a bounty for a release of a pdf.
How much do you think would be enough?
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Maybe someone should ask him? Ultimately, it's his decision. :)
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I have both - the german 1st edition and the english 2nd edition of the guru book. 1 was a reprint and 2 was a very expensive item on eBay.
It´s a really good book, but don´t expect too much from it. I value the CATS documentation (Commodore Amiga Reference Series, Addison Wesley) more than the Guru Book.
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I have both - the german 1st edition and the english 2nd edition of the guru book. 1 was a reprint and 2 was a very expensive item on eBay.
It´s a really good book, but don´t expect too much from it. I value the CATS documentation (Commodore Amiga Reference Series, Addison Wesley) more than the Guru Book.
I have the complete series of RKRM's 1st, 2nd and 3rd Editions but none of the CATS stuff.
I rate Ralph's book above the RKRM's in some aspects (Not that I've downloaded the torrent one must understand. ;) )
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Ralph has a real talent for expressing highly technical ideas in a way that's still accessible to the average computer nerd. Despite his knowledge and status, he's also a very nice guy and has politely answered my silly questions anytime I've asked. I'd be absolutely thrilled if the book was published.
Since you have already corresponded with him in the past, please contact him again and beg him to release his revised book, even if it is only an Online release, to save on publishing costs and reduce his risk to almost nothing.
Even if he does not want to have anything to do with the project, he could hand it off to some other person that he trusts for a small percentage of the sales generated and make a profit for himself with little or no effort on his part.
It is a real shame that he has decided to hold back this work of his when there is obviously a demand for the book and the only persons he is hurting is not the pirates that leaked any work to the Internet, he is just hurting his Amiga user fans that are clamoring for this book to be released.
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I have the complete series of RKRM's 1st, 2nd and 3rd Editions but none of the CATS stuff.
Oh? I thought the RKRMs where written by the CATS-Team. I was always confused with the title RKRMs, as e.g. the Styleguide has nothing about ROM or Kernel in it. I think we were talking about the same books.
Ralph Babel has a lot of detail and presents a lot of experience in important points. He really dives into the machine. But he only talks on a few selected topics, while the RKRMs cover all that is AMIGA.
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Maybe someone should ask him? Ultimately, it's his decision. :)
We have release the german book and would be release the english new version. we talk many times about the english version, but the project are dead...
http://www.amigafuture.de/viewtopic.php?t=20675
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Eh.
Option 1:
Release it as print on demand. Im sure the community would rather have the book, even if it means a bit lower quality (and POD has gotten damn good in recent years).
He states that he doesn't intend to make money off it, so why not?
Upload pdf to lulu.com, set price, link to a paypal account or cheque to mailed, sit back and watch the cash flow in, job done. Total time on the part of an author? About 20 mins, of which 10 mins would be making a cuppa.
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Upload pdf to lulu.com, set price, link to a paypal account or cheque to mailed, sit back and watch the cash flow in, job done. Total time on the part of an author? About 20 mins, of which 10 mins would be making a cuppa.
+twelvty!
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+twelvty!
+threeve
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Upload pdf to lulu.com, set price, link to a paypal account or cheque to mailed, sit back and watch the cash flow in, job done. Total time on the part of an author? About 20 mins, of which 10 mins would be making a cuppa.
Yes, please. I've been trying to get this book for twelve freaking years. I tried to buy it from an American distributor back when it was still in print (well, "had recently gone out of" print would be more accurate).
Lulu would be excellent... of course that's possibly unfair to APC-TPC who were set to release the book themselves...
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Seems like an odd and unfathomable situation. He halts the project because of the existence of a bad electronic copy of an old edition even when owners of the paper book are more than willing to buy an updated book, myself included. Must be personal issues behind the scenes.
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Upload pdf to lulu.com, set price, link to a paypal account or cheque to mailed, sit back and watch the cash flow in, job done. Total time on the part of an author? About 20 mins, of which 10 mins would be making a cuppa.
Exactly. Nice and easy.
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Ok, i have just signed in the petition
Im number 317. that number makes a good number to, at least, release the book in the form "Print on Demand" i guess
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Exactly. Nice and easy.
I believe a similar suggestion was made at the time as with lulu.com being used as the suggested POD people to go to. Hell it might even have been me :D
I do think however Hardlink has the right of it on this one though with his post.
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Does anyone here know Ralph Babel personally?
Is there any chance of reviving the completion of a revised, or 2nd Edition of Ralph's famous Guru Book?
I have tried to find an English copy of the original book for years, but have always been out-bid for it. I would still like to get an original copy of his 1st Edition English Guru Book, but would prefer to see an updated 2nd Edition, which might have more recent information and include AmigaOS3.x info. From what I have researched, the 1st Edition only covers up to AmigaOS2.1.
It appears that nothing ever came of this petition to try to convince Ralph to at least release his updated work on the book via "Print-on-Demand" online service(s).
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It appears that nothing ever came of this petition to try to convince Ralph to at least release his updated work on the book via "Print-on-Demand" online service(s).
Actually, I've talked to Ralph about this issue from time to time, and he didn't seem to be against this issue; actually, he had some corrections and extensions for a new edition waiting in his drawer (and, actually, I have a couple of corrections I would like to add, but anyhow...). For some reason, it never came to the phase of "yeah, right, let's do this now". It's probably a timing issue, and a question of financial viability.
I believe the major problem points are: Time (we all have our day jobs and probably a couple of other hobbies), and money. Given the experiences of the first (actually, second, but first international) edition and piracy, and the pretty low moral of the Amiga community concerning copyright, it's questionable if it is worth doing from a financial perspective.
One way possible way woudl be to publish it through a "print on demand" publisher, i.e. you could get a PDF or something for really little money, and a paperback for the printing and shipping costs.
I could try and approach him on the issue if there is sufficient interest.
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Actually, I've talked to Ralph about this issue from time to time, and he didn't seem to be against this issue; actually, he had some corrections and extensions for a new edition waiting in his drawer (and, actually, I have a couple of corrections I would like to add, but anyhow...). For some reason, it never came to the phase of "yeah, right, let's do this now". It's probably a timing issue, and a question of financial viability.
That's the most optimistic thing I've seen about this. Ralph's previous postings seemed more of the "One person pirated my First Edition as PDF so screw everyone that wants to pay me" sort of thing. I've also got "amiga guru" as an ongoing search to email me when it shows up in Ebay, but was not the winner the one time it's happened so far.
I believe the major problem points are: Time (we all have our day jobs and probably a couple of other hobbies), and money. Given the experiences of the first (actually, second, but first international) edition and piracy, and the pretty low moral of the Amiga community concerning copyright, it's questionable if it is worth doing from a financial perspective.
One way possible way woudl be to publish it through a "print on demand" publisher, i.e. you could get a PDF or something for really little money, and a paperback for the printing and shipping costs.
I could try and approach him on the issue if there is sufficient interest.
If there really is some chance, then very much yes I am interested. I'm old enough that I prefer paper, and would buy print-on-demand. (Stacks of paper more conveniently for me hold multiple bookmarks and don't run out of batteries, and my Droid4 phone is a terrible ereader, my only complaint is they take up so much more space than a single good ereader) But PDF is also good for searching, and I'd likely buy both PDF and paper.
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^^^ I couldn't agree more. If this happens, I'll be the one of the first to raise my hand with support.
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Ralph has emailed me personally in response to some hardware questions I had in the past. Seemed like a decent guy, I wish he was still active in the community. "Why can't we all just get along?" ;)
Don't think I'd have much use for it but might buy a copy of this book anyway, just as a show of support, if it did become available on one of those "pay for print" services. :)
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Even If I already have the 2nd edition it's still interesting to have an updated version.
Kamelito
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Actually, I've talked to Ralph about this issue from time to time, and he didn't seem to be against this issue; actually, he had some corrections and extensions for a new edition waiting in his drawer (and, actually, I have a couple of corrections I would like to add, but anyhow...). For some reason, it never came to the phase of "yeah, right, let's do this now". It's probably a timing issue, and a question of financial viability.
What I remember is that he claimed to not have continued because the guru book was downloadable from pirate bay as a high resolution scan of the whole book.
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@fats:
Yes, the piracy thing always seemed like a pretty flimsy excuse, the real reason was always likely to have been something else.
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@fats:
Yes, the piracy thing always seemed like a pretty flimsy excuse, the real reason was always likely to have been something else.
Not flimsy at all. Imagine you have poured your time, effort, sweat, and whatever else into a huge comprehensive project. For people in the Amiga community, even when it was a developed platform, whether viable for long-term commercial success or not -- everything we do is a labor of love.
Then to see that love spread around without any recompense for all your efforts. Yeah, it is a perfectly valid reason. On that has been hashed and re-hashed here numerous times and not really worth visiting again.
I was fortunate enough to grab an English copy from eBay a while ago. I would gladly put up for a newer edition.
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Actually, I've talked to Ralph about this issue from time to time, and he didn't seem to be against this issue; actually, he had some corrections and extensions for a new edition waiting in his drawer (and, actually, I have a couple of corrections I would like to add, but anyhow...). For some reason, it never came to the phase of "yeah, right, let's do this now". It's probably a timing issue, and a question of financial viability.
I believe the major problem points are: Time (we all have our day jobs and probably a couple of other hobbies), and money. Given the experiences of the first (actually, second, but first international) edition and piracy, and the pretty low moral of the Amiga community concerning copyright, it's questionable if it is worth doing from a financial perspective.
One way possible way woudl be to publish it through a "print on demand" publisher, i.e. you could get a PDF or something for really little money, and a paperback for the printing and shipping costs.
I could try and approach him on the issue if there is sufficient interest.
The petition site is no longer active, so I can't see how many people signed the petition when it was active, and I can't remember how high the number had gotten by the time I had signed the petition myself. My best guess is that I was number 450 to 500 who signed that petition, but that is just a rough guess and my memory of the event may be very faulty.
I think that there is still a large amount of interest in an updated version of the book in multiple languages, considering the number of users still looking for a copy of the original German, or 2nd edition English translation books.
If you would take the time to contact Ralph again and ask him about the possibility of doing a "Print-On-Demand" publishing of an updated version, I would greatly appreciate it, and think that many other users would also thank you and Ralph for any news on this topic.
If Ralph needs to know how many people are interested in buying an updated book, a poll could be posted on all of the remaining Amiga related forum sites (except you would need to find a way to filter out duplicate votes by the same people who are members of multiple forum sites). Another possibility is using Kickstarter to fund the publishing of a paper book, instead of any kind of pdf or e-Book. My preference would be to buy a real hard bound, or paperback book, that I can hold in my hands, instead of an electronic book displayed on a computer monitor or e-Reader, but I will buy what ever is made available.
I hope that someone can convince Ralph to let this happen. Since you mentioned it, perhaps Ralph would be open to doing a revised version of his original book in collaboration with several other knowledgeable programmers, who could help add new content that would bring his original book up to date with the latest (or last 68k version) of AmigaOS.
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The last time I looked at the petition, it was coming up on 300 signatures.
From reading your post, Thomas, it sounds a bit as if you've missed the last word from Ralph on this, where he made it clear there would be no new version released. This was even after Andreas Magerl from APC&TCP had offered to finance the whole printing.
I'm still interested in purchasing both a physical and digital copy if he decides to release the updated version. If not, then I hope he would at least consider releasing the previous English version in digital format.
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Are there any other Guru's out there capable of writing such a book?
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mr.vince too said on German a1k.org forums that he would pre-finance a printed edition of the book. So it seems there are some options that would minimize/eliminate financial risks for Ralph.
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Would love to buy new edition, even as print on demand. Hell, promise to buy two of them.
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The last time I looked at the petition, it was coming up on 300 signatures.
From reading your post, Thomas, it sounds a bit as if you've missed the last word from Ralph on this, where he made it clear there would be no new version released. This was even after Andreas Magerl from APC&TCP had offered to finance the whole printing.
I'm still interested in purchasing both a physical and digital copy if he decides to release the updated version. If not, then I hope he would at least consider releasing the previous English version in digital format.
That last statement from Ralph is unfortunate.
I guess the best we can hope for is a re-release of the previous English version in digital format, or the possibility that Ralph would sell the rights to the book to someone else who is qualified to write an updated version. Probably never happen. :(