Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: TorbenLarsen on February 20, 2011, 10:57:26 AM
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hi all Amiga fans
Everyone "claims" to own kickstart. Ofcourse if they didn't they would loose the ground upon which they stand. Dig into the history of the kickstart, it has to be one of the saddest stories ever... It has ben sold, resold, in whatever maner there is. No wonder some folks tend to think it is.... for taking....
If there ever was a time to set kickstart free.... now it is ;)
http://sites.google.com/site/freeamiga/#TOC-Amiga-Documents-2.2.1 (http://sites.google.com/site/freeamiga/#TOC-Amiga-Documents-2.2.1)
http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/ahistory.html (http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/ahistory.html)
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Yeah, so what ?
How much is the fish ?
Who gives a flying f... ?
Kickstart IS still owned, no matter how shady those owners might seem to you and that all there is to know.
On the other side yopur 100% free to donate moeny to the AROS-based Kickstart-replacement bounty.
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no fishing.. the big stick
Money is no relevans... freedom is
why donate to something that is already free...
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why donate to something that is already free...
The bounty for 68k AROS kickstart is to motivate someone to write software when they could be doing something else. If you don't want to donate then don't.
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I'm actually tired of dragging up the doom and gloom times again. Unless you have something new to add, why not look at how nice the hobby is doing at the present?
AROS may not be the best, but it is reliable.
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no fishing.. the big stick
Money is no relevans... freedom is
why donate to something that is already free...
I Amiga therefore I Kickstart.
I Amiga therefore I Workbench.
If it came with the box I own it is mine. Media or not.
Those are the bounds of my concern.
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why donate to something that is already free...
Because no matter how free you might consider the kickstart being, you are going to have a hard time digging up and opensourcing the AmigaOS source code if you want to improve and add to it. That is why the AROS initiative is so important, and in my opinion well worth donating to.
Love your games btw.
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The Kickstart rights, it is the must Bullsh.t, I have ever seen!!
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Because no matter how free you might consider the kickstart being, you are going to have a hard time digging up and opensourcing the AmigaOS source code if you want to improve and add to it. That is why the AROS initiative is so important, and in my opinion well worth donating to.
Love your games btw.
Thanks.. :) Do check out our Amiga/iPhone projekt (Battle Squadron ONE (http://cope-com.com/projectblog/)) though i am deeply sadden by reading about the kickstart
The Amiga was ment to be free (no bounds).. people strap off your bellys, put your sofa on default.... The Amiga is alive but needs your help....
WE need a serious shaking going on....
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I own
01 A500 KS 1.3 & 3.1
02 A600 KS 2.4 & 3.1
03 A1200 KS 3.0
04 A4000 KS 3.0 & 3.1
I have the Amiga computers and the kickstarts for these machines, which gives me legal ownership to use them with an emulator program or in the hardware.
Question
If I bought kickstart rom chips from a supplier or from an auction site (new or 2nd hand) but did not buy the Amiga machine, I am the legal owner to use kickstart on an emulator ?
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Everyone "claims" to own kickstart.
I would like to think I own those I bought, yes.
Ofcourse if they didn't they would loose the ground upon which they stand.
Oh my...
Dig into the history of the kickstart, it has to be one of the saddest stories ever...
Not really.
It has ben sold, resold, in whatever maner there is. No wonder some folks tend to think it is.... for taking....
Teh horror.
If there ever was a time to set kickstart free.... now it is ;)
And just how are you going to do that?
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If you accidently come across a website where you can download your roms you would the legal owner because you own the hardware roms ?
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And just how are you going to do that?
"Mind trick, my friend...." - Yoda
haha, ok seriously ;)
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
quote a famous scientist
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The AROS kickstart should make the whole legal tangle just disapear (hopefully). Then we won't care who owns the old out of date kickstart.
Although I would like to know who really owns it, just to finally know! My bets are on who ever bought gateway.
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The AROS kickstart should make the whole legal tangle just disapear (hopefully). Then we won't care who owns the old out of date kickstart.
Although I would like to know who really owns it, just to finally know! My bets are on who ever bought gateway.
AROS is such a beautiful project.. :)
Who is that entity that claims to own the girl of Amiga... I WANT TO SEE IT NOW...!!
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Although I would like to know who really owns it, just to finally know! My bets are on who ever bought gateway.
Like I said before, Pluritas has been engaged to sell the AI IP.
Potential buyer: "Before I bid, please tell me what I am bidding on"
Pluritas will either
(1)mention kickstart or
(2)not, which could indicate 2 things.
(1)It's not theirs to sell or
(2)They don't know either.
Mystery solved.
#6
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Like I said before, Pluritas has been engaged to sell the AI IP.
Potential buyer: "Before I bid, please tell me what I am bidding on"
Pluritas will either
(1)mention kickstart or
(2)not, which could indicate 2 things.
(1)It's not theirs to sell or
(2)They don't know either.
Mystery solved.
#6
I didnt post your qoute, check comp for virus... anyways...
1. Selling boble air
2. Boble air with antivirus
3. Boble air with antivirus from mikrosoft
4. delete your system, reboot and reinstall.... bliiiip.
lol
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I didnt post your qoute, check comp for virus... anyways...
1. Selling boble air
2. Boble air with antivirus
3. Boble air with antivirus from mikrosoft
4. delete your system, reboot and reinstall.... bliiiip.
lol
Heh. True. But you had the same questions.
My fault for posting from an Amiga, something none of the IP holders/sellers seem to know much about.
#6
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Heh. True. But you had the same questions.
My fault for posting from an Amiga, something none of the IP holders/sellers seem to know much about.
#6
haha dark sarcasm... love it ;)
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Since with fuel injection and electronic ignition nothing is kickstarted anymore,
and for the last 17 years we've been dreaming about an Amiga future anyway-
Lets just call the future kernal Suckstart, since any Amiga capable of running it will be mythical and elusive- and be the lore of barroom anecdote.
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Since with fuel injection and electronic ignition nothing is kickstarted anymore,
and for the last 17 years we've been dreaming about an Amiga future anyway-
Lets just call the future kernal Suckstart, since any Amiga capable of running it will be mythical and elusive- and be the lore of barroom anecdote.
You're right... doesn't dreams sometimes become reality...
For many... when the Amiga first saw the light of day it was to many... a dream come true ;)
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I challenge amiga.inc and Hyperion, to bring forth any material that they consider to hold the Amiga girl in bondage....
or forever be silent....
The kickstart should be downloadable upon donation request... :)
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I challenge amiga.inc and Hyperion, to bring forth any material that they consider to hold the Amiga girl in bondage....
or forever be silent....
The kickstart should be downloadable upon donation request... :)
I agree 100% that kickstart images should be available to purchase easily... (not encrypted ones like on Amiga Forever along with stuff you may not want or need) but how many years has all the arguments and counters arguments being going on for... :(
It way past time for anyone who want's them and is not able to purchase them easily should have the opportunity to obtain them on the net for free, cos apart from a few whingers on here still harping on about copyright, who actually cares any more , certainly not the various companies who claim they own them otherwise if these companies did care then why can they be easily found on the net... :)
It's ruddy pointless still going on about them in this day and age, if you really want them then just look on the net and you'll find them easily... :)
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All your kickstart belong to us!
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I agree 100% that kickstart images should be available to purchase easily... (not encrypted ones like on Amiga Forever along with stuff you may not want or need) but how many years has all the arguments and counters arguments being going on for... :(
It way past time for anyone who want's them and is not able to purchase them easily should have the opportunity to obtain them on the net for free, cos apart from a few whingers on here still harping on about copyright, who actually cares any more , certainly not the various companies who claim they own them otherwise if these companies did care then why can they be easily found on the net... :)
It's ruddy pointless still going on about them in this day and age, if you really want them then just look on the net and you'll find them easily... :)
Franko.. right on ;)
It is not just pointless, it is such total bullsh.t.
Franko, when was the last time you gave Hybris a spin?? ;)
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Franko.. right on ;)
It is not just pointless, it is such total bullsh.t.
Franko, when was the last time you gave Hybris a spin?? ;)
The whole sorry saga of Kickstart & Workbench is the bigget load of BS in computing history and if all those companies or entities who still claim legal ownership over it but let it languish locked away in the darkness where no-one is allowed to use it can't be arsed to do something about it, then F the lot of them I say... :)
That's why I made it freely available to download and I am going to continue to do so until the rightful owners step forward and challenge me on it... :)
PS:Odd question about Hybris ??? but to be honest it must have been the early to mid nineties... :)
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I agree 100% that kickstart images should be available to purchase easily... (not encrypted ones like on Amiga Forever along with stuff you may not want or need) but how many years has all the arguments and counters arguments being going on for... :(
It way past time for anyone who want's them and is not able to purchase them easily should have the opportunity to obtain them on the net for free, cos apart from a few whingers on here still harping on about copyright, who actually cares any more , certainly not the various companies who claim they own them otherwise if these companies did care then why can they be easily found on the net... :)
It's ruddy pointless still going on about them in this day and age, if you really want them then just look on the net and you'll find them easily... :)
Easy enough to get a copy of the roms by running the emulator with the encrypted roms and then ripping them out.
Most emulators allow you to use the encypted ones anyway.
I really don't see what the fuss is to be honest. If somone still owns the rights to the roms and they dont want them being public domain then thats fair enough. Get over it. Either buy them from cloanto or as you say get them from dodgey websites :)
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Easy enough to get a copy of the roms by running the emulator with the encrypted roms and then ripping them out.
Most emulators allow you to use the encypted ones anyway.
I really don't see what the fuss is to be honest. If somone still owns the rights to the roms and they dont want them being public domain then thats fair enough. Get over it. Either buy them from cloanto or as you say get them from dodgey websites :)
I'm all over it... ;)
It's higher than thou copyright mafia that can't get over it even after all these long years...:)
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I'm all over it... ;)
It's higher than thou copyright mafia that can't get over it even after all these long years...:)
No, it hasn't been long years as far as copyrights are concerned: http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-duration.html.
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No, it hasn't been long years as far as copyrights are concerned: http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-duration.html.
Stuff the copyright laws, it has been very, very long years if your an Amiga user..
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Well Commodore USA will have to supply the Kickstart and C64 ROMs for their emulators for VICE and UAE so we will finally see who actually owns the Kickstart copyright once and for all.
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Well Commodore USA will have to supply the Kickstart and C64 ROMs for their emulators for VICE and UAE so we will finally see who actually owns the Kickstart copyright once and for all.
Been wondering about that myself, wonder if they'll do what they did before changing the wording on their site and advise folk that they can find them freely on the internet or will they advise folk that they need to buy Cloantos Amiga Forever emulator in order to use their emulator... :)
Cos that only leaves them one option and that is to licence the roms from the copyright/IP holder, then as you say we will finally know... :)
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@Franko
Or they could just use AROS 68k... This is what it is meant for, anyway I doubt C=USA would have any difficulties getting a licence from cloanto if they so wanted.
I have to ask, what is you obsession with C=USA, if you want their stuff so bad just give them a call and get a prototype or something :-S
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Been wondering about that myself, wonder if they'll do what they did before changing the wording on their site and advise folk that they can find them freely on the internet or will they advise folk that they need to buy Cloantos Amiga Forever emulator in order to use their emulator... :)
Cos that only leaves them one option and that is to licence the roms from the copyright/IP holder, then as you say we will finally know... :)
What prevents C=USA from buying them outright? Do you know for a fact that kickstart is -not- part of the IP that Pluritas is attempting to sell on behalf of AI?
#6
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Yeah, I officially no longer give a crap who legally owns anything about the Amiga, since none of them seem very interested in making any of it easily available to the Amiga community. I say let's throw our support behind the open Kickstart effort, use our outdated OS of choice, and let these people rot.
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Yeah, I officially no longer give a crap who legally owns anything about the Amiga, since none of them seem very interested in making any of it easily available to the Amiga community. I say let's throw our support behind the open Kickstart effort, use our outdated OS of choice, and let these people rot.
+1
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@Franko
Or they could just use AROS 68k... This is what it is meant for, anyway I doubt C=USA would have any difficulties getting a licence from cloanto if they so wanted.
I have to ask, what is you obsession with C=USA, if you want their stuff so bad just give them a call and get a prototype or something :-S
You may ask and I shall gladly tell you... :)
It's not an "obsesion" as you call it I just hate to see the names Commodore, C64, Amiga & Workbench being used to sell an inferior product... :)
And why on earth would I want any of their stuff ???
@ Number6
Well as it's never been legally proven just who owns exactly what, then CUSA could attempt to purchase them outright but the legal arguments over just who owns what and who has the right to sell what would most likely result in even more years of court cases, and I don't see CUSA being around that long... :)
Plus as I've already said it's all the biggest load of BS in computing history and if you and all the others who are so fascinated as to all the legal ins and outs about who allegedly owns the stuff then why don't you hire some good lawyers and find out once and for all instead of just posting opinions on it... :)
I've already said I couldn't give a toss about who actually claims to own any of it, as they don't seem to be bothered about it themselves anymore... :)
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@ Number6
Well as it's never been legally proven just who owns exactly what, then CUSA could attempt to purchase them outright but the legal arguments over just who owns what and who has the right to sell what would most likely result in even more years of court cases, and I don't see CUSA being around that long... :)
Plus as I've already said it's all the biggest load of BS in computing history and if you and all the others who are so fascinated as to all the legal ins and outs about who allegedly owns the stuff then why don't you hire some good lawyers and find out once and for all instead of just posting opinions on it... :)
I've already said I couldn't give a toss about who actually claims to own any of it, as they don't seem to be bothered about it themselves anymore... :)
ok, then I won't complicate this further by asking why the C64 is now the C64x. Heh. We'll just tiptoe away from Ironstone Partners on this one...
#6
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ok, then I won't complicate this further by asking why the C64 is now the C64x. Heh. We'll just tiptoe away from Ironstone Partners on this one...
#6
Ok... don't ask... and I wont simplify things by telling you, I'll just stomp away noisily to watch Ironside on this one... :)
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Ok... don't ask... and I wont simplify things by telling you, I'll just stomp away noisily to watch Ironside on this one... :)
Ironstone Partners is one of the curious ones involved in the AI/Hyperion settlement. They licensed C64 from Tulip and their license is valid until 2015. You might notice some similarities in how they approached things:
source (http://news.cnet.com/Commodore-64-finds-new-guardian-angel/2100-1042_3-1025814.html)
a bit later on (http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=20665)
fun stuff (http://8bc.org/wiki/index.php/DTV_64)
#6
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You may ask and I shall gladly tell you... :)
It's not an "obsesion" as you call it I just hate to see the names Commodore, C64, Amiga & Workbench being used to sell an inferior product... :)
I hate to break this to you, but you are about 10years too late... We've been there done that... We've seen the name dragged through the mud, and thrown around to the point Amiga and to a lesser extent Commodore are now a laughing stock or forgotten at best.
I say good luck to anyone who thinks they can use the Amiga brand now to sell computers :)
And why on earth would I want any of their stuff ???
Might make you feel better?
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Ironstone Partners is one of the curious ones involved in the AI/Hyperion settlement. They licensed C64 from Tulip and their license is valid until 2015. You might notice some similarities in how they approached things:
source (http://news.cnet.com/Commodore-64-finds-new-guardian-angel/2100-1042_3-1025814.html)
a bit later on (http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=20665)
fun stuff (http://8bc.org/wiki/index.php/DTV_64)
#6
@ number6 & bloodline
Sigh... you don't get it do you who cares about all the crap from the past, I sometimes wonder if certain folk who post here even use an Amiga or C64 anymore, they just seem to like quoting BS articles and legal documents from years ago that don't mean a thing anymore instead of enjoying the Amiga for what it was and still is.... :(
It would be far more useful and helpful if these certain folk put a bit more effort into helping others out who post Amiga hardware/software problems and questions here... :)
But then maybe if it's been so long since they abandoned the Amiga they've either forget how to answer such questions or maybe they just never owned an Amiga in the first place and just come to these forums for something to do and re-hash the same old stuff over & over again...:rolleyes:
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AROS is such a beautiful project.. :)
Yes it is, thankfully the screaming and sneering against AROS has died down a bit over the years.
Who is that entity that claims to own the girl of Amiga... I WANT TO SEE IT NOW...!!
Either ask AI nicely, or do something that will force AI to sue you and then in court you can subpoena all ownership records, are your two options of seeing ownership of AI IP.
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no fishing.. the big stick
Money is no relevans... freedom is
why donate to something that is already free...
Stolen property is never free.
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@ number6 & bloodline
Sigh... you don't get it do you who cares about all the crap from the past, I sometimes wonder if certain folk who post here even use an Amiga or C64 anymore, they just seem to like quoting BS articles and legal documents from years ago that don't mean a thing anymore instead of enjoying the Amiga for what it was and still is.... :(
It would be far more useful and helpful if these certain folk put a bit more effort into helping others out who post Amiga hardware/software problems and questions here... :)
But then maybe if it's been so long since they abandoned the Amiga they've either forget how to answer such questions or maybe they just never owned an Amiga in the first place and just come to these forums for something to do and re-hash the same old stuff over & over again...:rolleyes:
Actually Franko, I do get it. I'm posting from an amiga and I spend hours a day helping people in irc.
It's unfortunate these subjects of ownership keep coming up, but they are actually relevant to what you support.
I get asked constantly by devs of projects about the pitfalls/minefields they may be walking into and how to avoid them. You have no idea how many projects that actually could have been brought to the public have been destroyed by the confusion and legalities surrounding them.
If bringing up such things in public is disturbing, then I apologize.
#6
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Stuff the copyright laws, it has been very, very long years if your an Amiga user..
It doesn't matter if you don't like it Frank, it is what it is. Just pay what Amiga Inc wants for ownership of it's IP and do what you wish with it. Simple, isn't it?
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Well Commodore USA will have to supply the Kickstart and C64 ROMs for their emulators for VICE and UAE so we will finally see who actually owns the Kickstart copyright once and for all.
It's been said publically on commodore-amiga.org that C=USA does have a license from AI for kickstart/wb.
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@ Number6
It's not disturbing it's just pointless, until the day someone can finally & conclusively and with a shadow of a doubt prove who owns what... :)
Until then let the armchair lawyers like Dammy spout their unfounded and unproven legal views, in the meantime I'll just set the stuff free once again and see if anyone who can genuinely prove ownership of it comes forward and demands I stop... :)
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It's been said publically on commodore-amiga.org that C=USA does have a license from AI for kickstart/wb.
So that makes Commodore-Amiga.org the official mouthpiece of CUSA then does it... :lol:
So why doesn't CUSA state it on their own site then ???
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@ Number6
It's not disturbing it's just pointless, until the day someone can finally & conclusively and with a shadow of a doubt prove who owns what... :)
Until then let the armchair lawyers like Dammy spout their unfounded and unproven legal views, in the meantime I'll just set the stuff free once again and see if anyone who can genuinely prove ownership of it comes forward and demands I stop... :)
Heh. Then you have more in common with Barry Altman than you wish to admit, since that's exactly what he did with the C= logo being placed on his site in order to find out who would complain, thereby determining who owned the license rights.
"Altman says he slapped the Commodore name and logo on his site in an effort to, well, locate the rights holder."
#6
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So that makes Commodore-Amiga.org the official mouthpiece of CUSA then does it... :lol:
That is correct, announcements will be made on CA.org
So why doesn't CUSA state it on their own site then ???
Probably because no one who goes there would care in the first place about that level of legal details. They want to see product information and pricing.
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Heh. Then you have more in common with Barry Altman than you wish to admit, since that's exactly what he did with the C= logo being placed on his site in order to find out who would complain, thereby determining who owned the license rights.
"Altman says he slapped the Commodore name and logo on his site in an effort to, well, locate the rights holder."
#6
Wow, Franko is Barry's long lost brother! Family reunion time! :rofl:
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Wow, Franko is Barry's long lost brother! Family reunion time! :rofl:
I'll throw in another example from 2006, so we don't focus on just the two above:
"Amiga Inc. do care. Just a few months ago, their lawyer ordered a German forum to remove a *video* showing a selfmade 3.9 Kickstart ROM." - cgutjahr
I'm not picking on anyone's methodology at determining ownership here, nor am I supporting it.
It's just a fact that (1)usage (2)wait for response
seems to be be in vogue these days.
Think about what this nonsense does from a developers standpoint.
#6
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Stolen property is never free.
Yeah, well, I'll shed a tear for the poor infringed parties when they start demonstrating the tiniest iota of concern for or interest in the actual Amiga community.
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I'll throw in another example from 2006, so we don't focus on just the two above:
"Amiga Inc. do care. Just a few months ago, their lawyer ordered a German forum to remove a *video* showing a selfmade 3.9 Kickstart ROM." - cgutjahr
I'm not picking on anyone's methodology at determining ownership here, nor am I supporting it.
It's just a fact that (1)usage (2)wait for response
seems to be be in vogue these days.
Think about what this nonsense does from a developers standpoint.
#6
Thought about it... and came up with ziltch... :)
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Thought about it... and came up with ziltch... :)
Heh.
Since the point was about how confusion of ownership affects amigaland development, I'll give a Jens Schoenfeld example from April, 2007. There are many more, and I'm not implying things have not changed since this was posted.
"Bill McEwen, who hasn't been able to give any proof of ownership of the classic Amiga OS in the past 20 months, who wanted to send me contracts "by the end of the week" (that was in february)"
Surely you can draw the connection between ownership and development confusion here.
#6
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@ Number6
It's not disturbing it's just pointless, until the day someone can finally & conclusively and with a shadow of a doubt prove who owns what... :)
Until then let the armchair lawyers like Dammy spout their unfounded and unproven legal views, in the meantime I'll just set the stuff free once again and see if anyone who can genuinely prove ownership of it comes forward and demands I stop... :)
Franko, you have a very very good point here :)
Instead of spending time turning things upside down......
I challenge that entity that claims hold the Amiga girl in bondage...
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Heh.
Since the point was about how confusion of ownership affects amigaland development, I'll give a Jens Schoenfeld example from April, 2007. There are many more, and I'm not implying things have not changed since this was posted.
"Bill McEwen, who hasn't been able to give any proof of ownership of the classic Amiga OS in the past 20 months, who wanted to send me contracts "by the end of the week" (that was in february)"
Surely you can draw the connection between ownership and development confusion here.
#6
Bill McEwen is just a mad Scotsman, haven't you learned by now not to take anything a mad Scotsman gibbers seriously... :)
But I do see your point, although if you writing software or building hardware that doesn't include any code that's owned by whomever claims to own Kickstart or the OS then no-one can stop stop you from doing so and trying to sell it, so whomever does legally own it has no say in the matter... :)
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Bill McEwen is just a mad Scotsman, haven't you learned by now not to take anything a mad Scotsman gibbers seriously... :)
But I do see your point, although if you writing software or building hardware that doesn't include any code that's owned by whomever claims to own Kickstart or the OS then no-one can stop stop you from doing so and trying to sell it, so whomever does legally own it has no say in the matter... :)
Right, but what you just said should explain why not much was seen during the period 2007-2009.
Vaporware threads don't tell the whole story. Heh.
#6
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yeah, i officially no longer give a crap who legally owns anything about the amiga, since none of them seem very interested in making any of it easily available to the amiga community. I say let's throw our support behind the open kickstart effort, use our outdated os of choice, and let these people rot.
yeees ;)
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yeees ;)
+1
& Yeees indeedy... :)
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It's been said publically on commodore-amiga.org that C=USA does have a license from AI for kickstart/wb.
That does not make it truesfull, it is basically just bla bla bla... a claim based on air...!!!
The Amiga community had been had with tricksters for years...
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+1
& Yeees indeedy... :)
Different topic from the "we think we know who owns this one" file, released a few days ago:
http://www.trademarkia.com/logo-78940434.html
Perhaps a legal minded person can explain "Word Mark:
(NO WORD)". Does that mean we're talking about the picture only and not the term "boingball"?
#6
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Different topic from the "we think we know who owns this one" file, released a few days ago:
http://www.trademarkia.com/logo-78940434.html
Perhaps a legal minded person can explain "Word Mark:
(NO WORD)". Does that mean we're talking about the picture only and not the term "boingball"?
#6
number 6, you need to get your legal base straight, A trademark... HAS NOTHING to do with copyright or IP.
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number 6, you need to get your legal base straight, A trademark... HAS NOTHING to do with copyright or IP.
I'm only referring to the line:
"This trademark is owned by Amiga, Inc., New York, NY 10016" with my comment. I infer no more.
#6
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Different topic from the "we think we know who owns this one" file, released a few days ago:
http://www.trademarkia.com/logo-78940434.html
Perhaps a legal minded person can explain "Word Mark:
(NO WORD)". Does that mean we're talking about the picture only and not the term "boingball"?
#6
So we got:
Amiga Inc. Washington
Amiga Inc. Delaware
Amiga Inc. California
Amiga Inc. New York
and you wonder why no one believes any of them?
I have to agree with Franko and Commodore USA - use the trademarks and let someone prove ownership... Trademarks are only owned if they are defended. I same with IP in the end... If someone is willing to take the risk, so be it. About time somebody did something with this stuff.
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Yeah, well, I'll shed a tear for the poor infringed parties when they start demonstrating the tiniest iota of concern for or interest in the actual Amiga community.
What has the community done for AI lately that would make AI concerned about the well being of the community?
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Different topic from the "we think we know who owns this one" file, released a few days ago:
http://www.trademarkia.com/logo-78940434.html
Perhaps a legal minded person can explain "Word Mark:
(NO WORD)". Does that mean we're talking about the picture only and not the term "boingball"?
#6
The "No Word" part of it means the logo doesn't contain any text, if you wanted a trade mark called for example "Amiga" using text then you can in theory apply for one but the text must not be an exact copy of any currently in use
eg: "amiga" and "AMIGA" could be registered as two different trade marks by two different entities providing the copyright office legal bods say that there is enough difference between the two fonts used to distinguish between them, but this can be challenged by either party in a court... :)
Just like you could use the boingball logo and add some text to it and provided you did not just use a direct copy of the original logo and there were enough subtle differences for the legal eagles to give it the go ahead as your trademark... :)
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number 6, you need to get your legal base straight, A trademark... HAS NOTHING to do with copyright or IP.
Oh yes it is! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_property
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So we got:
Amiga Inc. Washington
Amiga Inc. Delaware
Amiga Inc. California
Amiga Inc. New York
and you wonder why no one believes any of them?
I have to agree with Franko and Commodore USA - use the trademarks and let someone prove ownership... Trademarks are only owned if they are defended. I same with IP in the end... If someone is willing to take the risk, so be it. About time somebody did something with this stuff.
The biggest AMIGA scam in history has been revealed.... ;)
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If you really want to use the trademark "Amiga" it's legally available to register here...
Click on "Basic Word Mark Search (New User) "
then enter the word "amiga"
then see item number 17... :)
(sorry but whomever made that crappy site doesn't allow direct links to the results page, so you have to follow the above instructions...:()
Amiga Tradmarks Live & Dead (http://tess2.uspto.gov/)
But does anyone really want to go to the expense of owning it... ???
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The "No Word" part of it means the logo doesn't contain any text, if you wanted a trade mark called for example "Amiga" using text then you can in theory apply for one but the text must not be an exact copy of any currently in use
eg: "amiga" and "AMIGA" could be registered as two different trade marks by two different entities providing the copyright office legal bods say that there is enough difference between the two fonts used to distinguish between them, but this can be challenged by either party in a court... :)
Just like you could use the boingball logo and add some text to it and provided you did not just use a direct copy of the original logo and there were enough subtle differences for the legal eagles to give it the go ahead as your trademark... :)
Thank you for the explanation. My "non legal" mind interpreted this incorrectly. When I saw "no mark", I concluded that the obvious image of a boingball was not connected to the obvious term, and nothing more.
#6
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Oh yes it is! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_property
dammy, do try to read you own link.... let me help you a little..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trademark
Did i not say TRADEMARK... get it???
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If you really want to use the trademark "Amiga" it's legally available to register here...
Click on "Basic Word Mark Search (New User) "
then enter the word "amiga"
then see item number 17... :)
(sorry but whomever made that crappy site doesn't allow direct links to the results page, so you have to follow the above instructions...:()
Amiga Tradmarks Live & Dead (http://tess2.uspto.gov/)
But does anyone really want to go to the expense of owning it... ???
You would have to ask those directly who already contacted Pluritas, but surely NDA covers not discussing such things.
#6
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What has the community done for AI lately that would make AI concerned about the well being of the community?
Wait, what? When did it become the potential customer's responsibility to cozy up to a business and agree to whatever product they're interested in producing, regardless of whether it has anything to do with what the customer would want? What kind of Soviet-industrial-complex crap is that?
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dammy, do try to read you own link.... let me help you a little..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trademark
Did i not say TRADEMARK... get it???
You said in the above post: A trademark... HAS NOTHING to do with copyright or IP.
? Yet in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_property clearly says, "Common types of intellectual property include copyrights, trademarks, patents, industrial design rights and trade secrets in some jurisdictions."
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You said in the above post: ? Yet in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_property clearly says, "Common types of intellectual property include copyrights, trademarks, patents, industrial design rights and trade secrets in some jurisdictions."
dammy, please stop.. you obviously do not know the difference between, trademark, copyright and IP.
although continue... i need a good laugh :roflmao:
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dammy, please stop.. you obviously do not know the difference between, trademark, copyright and IP.
although continue... i need a good laugh :roflmao:
Don't ask him to stop, he keeps me entertained with his ramblings and I like winding him up like a wee clockwork toy and watch him shuffle about all over the net googling things... :roflmao:
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dammy, you are desperate man... quoting wiki rules.... LOL
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Don't ask him to stop, he keeps me entertained with his ramblings and I like winding him up like a wee clockwork toy and watch him shuffle about all over the net googling things... :roflmao:
He is mine...!! I am going to beat da--y up with true laws... ;)
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Dammy is 100% correct. IP stands for Intellectual Property. It is a catch all word that includes trademark.
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@thread
I've asked about this one in the past on various sites. Never got a response.
Can anyone summarize what this was all about for those of us not legally minded?
Amiga Development LLC v Hewlett-Packard Company (http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=21115&forum=4)
If it's totally irrelevant to what we're discussing, just indicate so.
#6
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I have to agree with Franko and Commodore USA - use the trademarks and let someone prove ownership...
I heavily opposed to this when CommodoreUSA used this tactic of putting legal doubtful things on their web site and see if no complains come. Why should I change mind if somebody else does the same ?
greets,
Staf.
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Just so you know, its the same artards posting here
that hold the most-post count over at CUSA shill forum.
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Wot... No Dammy... he must be googling some facts or having his nappy changed... :roflmao:
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Yeah, he needs to catch up to belial as well, otherwise Barry might pick a new submissive.
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Yes, some of us post more over there now because Amiga.org has become really nasty. Personal attacks against anyone that doesn't agree with certain peoples vision of what Amiga should be has become the norm.
Sad really.
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Yes, some of us post more over there now because Amiga.org has become really nasty. Personal attacks against anyone that doesn't agree with certain peoples vision of what Amiga should be has become the norm.
Sad really.
Gotta agree with you on that, that Dammy geezer does nothing but personally attack me... :)
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Amiga Inc does not own Commodore (non Amiga) IP for sure because the two halves were split and the C64DTV was born. The company that does has never stopped VICE being distributed with ALL rom files together with the emulator.....exactly how it should be too.
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Yes, some of us post more over there now because Amiga.org has become really nasty. Personal attacks against anyone that doesn't agree with certain peoples vision of what Amiga should be has become the norm.
Sad really.
Meh. To each his own. If I wanted to talk on a forum about computers and software NOT amiga related, it would be on the Arch or Ubuntu forums, or the Nvidia/Intel forums.
Plus, I've read some of the comments over on that forum before the CTO or Wolfie pulls them. There's trouble in toon-town over there as well, and not from your basic run-of-the-mill Aorg trolls...
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No point registering there to post Linux +UAE <> Amiga then :roflmao:
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Meh. To each his own. If I wanted to talk on a forum about computers and software NOT amiga related, it would be on the Arch or Ubuntu forums, or the Nvidia/Intel forums.
Plus, I've read some of the comments over on that forum before the CTO or Wolfie pulls them. There's trouble in toon-town over there as well, and not from your basic run-of-the-mill Aorg trolls...
Care to point out what posts have been deleted?
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Dammy is 100% correct. IP stands for Intellectual Property. It is a catch all word that includes trademark.
You're absolutely right, IP stands for Intellectual Property and TM stands for trademark. Maybe a new frase has been invented here.. an IPTM?? lool
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You're absolutely right, IP stands for Intellectual Property and TM stands for trademark. Maybe a new frase has been invented here.. an IPTM?? lool
Stanford says hi.
http://www.law.stanford.edu/program/courses/details/337/Intellectual%20Property%3A%20Trademark/
You might want to pay close attention to how copyright,trademark,patents etc are placed under intellectual Property.
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You're as crusty and cruel as I am......I'd bet we're both over 45 then....:-)
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Don't ask him to stop, he keeps me entertained with his ramblings and I like winding him up like a wee clockwork toy and watch him shuffle about all over the net googling things... :roflmao:
Franko Good Sir:
You're as crusty and cruel as I am......I'd bet we're both over 45 then....:-)
If ever I make it to Scotland, I'll make it a point to buy thee a wee pint.
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Stanford says hi.
http://www.law.stanford.edu/program/courses/details/337/Intellectual%20Property%3A%20Trademark/
You might want to pay close attention to how copyright,trademark,patents etc are placed under intellectual Property.
The true laws says hi too
Pay very close attention to this link, since it governs the very foundation upon which we stand..
http://www.uspto.gov/
quote from the United States Patent and trademark office:
"There are three types of intellectual property: trademarks, patents, and copyrights."
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Care to point out what posts have been deleted?
No. It is impossible to do so. Anyways, my statement is anecdotal to begin with and easily dismissed by those not inclined to regard me as truthful.
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The true laws says hi too
Pay very close attention to this link, since it governs the very foundation upon which we stand..
http://www.uspto.gov/
quote from the United States Patent and trademark office:
"There are three types of intellectual property: trademarks, patents, and copyrights."
So what do you think that means?
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Meh. To each his own. If I wanted to talk on a forum about computers and software NOT amiga related, it would be on the Arch or Ubuntu forums, or the Nvidia/Intel forums.
Funny, there are three subboards dedicated to old school Amigas. But you already knew that, right?
Plus, I've read some of the comments over on that forum before the CTO or Wolfie pulls them. There's trouble in toon-town over there as well, and not from your basic run-of-the-mill Aorg trolls...
Nope, your way off base on this one. Other then the AROS subboards being deleted, there has only been a few post/threads "deleted" because of robo-spamming. Here is a hint for you, "deleted" posts/threads are still seen by staffers, they are not actually tossed into the void. I would see such deleted posts/threads if such thing was going on. It's not and you are wrong, end of story.
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No. It is impossible to do so. Anyways, my statement is anecdotal to begin with and easily dismissed by those not inclined to regard me as truthful.
Nope, your way off base on this one. Other then the AROS subboards being deleted, there has only been a few post/threads "deleted" because of robo-spamming. Here is a hint for you, "deleted" posts/threads are still seen by staffers, they are not actually tossed into the void. I would see such deleted posts/threads if such thing was going on. It's not and you are wrong, end of story.
:D See? That wasn't so hard.
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I just hate to see a thread stuck on 99 replies :D
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100 is too neat a number too :D
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The true laws says hi too
Pay very close attention to this link, since it governs the very foundation upon which we stand..
http://www.uspto.gov/
quote from the United States Patent and trademark office:
"There are three types of intellectual property: trademarks, patents, and copyrights."
So then a trademark is part of IP. Realyl dont see your argument. And wwho give a fook about USA law anyway.
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So then a trademark is part of IP. Realyl dont see your argument. And wwho give a fook about USA law anyway.
.....
quote from the United States Patent and trademark office:
"There are three types of intellectual property: trademarks, patents, and copyrights."
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.....
quote from the United States Patent and trademark office:
"There are three types of intellectual property: trademarks, patents, and copyrights."
You'll need to speak up a wee bit cos I can't hear you... pardon...... :D
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When the f*** did we get ice cream?
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.....
quote from the United States Patent and trademark office:
"There are three types of intellectual property: trademarks, patents, and copyrights.
What we got here is failure to communicate. I have a feeling you are incorrectly comprehending this quote. "Trademarks", "patenets", and "copyrights" are as subsets of a group known as, "Intellectual Properties." There for all three are considered apart of the group known as "Intellectual Property."
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This thread is silly. Everyone is interpreting the law in their eyes but how many of you are actually lawyers? And how many are talking out their arses? Simply doing a quick read of wikipedia for 5 minutes is not the equivalent of a 5 year law degree. May i suggest only lawyers be allowed to make comments in this thread :rtfm:
Now i've said my 2 cents and insulted everyone please don't hurt me *covers face with hands in fear* :nervous:
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I got bored after page 2! But.......what IP's are being sold? And anyone estimate how much they will be sold for? If we want something done with it all, we could
1) - buy it!
2) - petition the owner?
Or am I just talking crap and misunderstood the whole thing?
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Or am I just talking crap and misunderstood the whole thing?
Yes yes and yes.
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Yes yes and yes.
Ah....okay I'll shut up then! Had to make some comment! ;)