Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga community support ideas => Topic started by: develin on February 17, 2011, 02:52:13 PM
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Hi, don't know incase you've seen following interview with the creators of DirectoryOpus Magellan : http://system-log.com/?p=1363
What do you think of a open source initiative (like a bounty) to make it open so this wonderful piece of software can carry on (on AROS and elsewhere) ? =)
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good idea!!
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Excellent idea.
A suggestion: Just ask, sometimes, as the best things in life, you get it for free.
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Oh... that would be the day!
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What a lovely dream.
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I think all classic 68k software should now be free.
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I think all classic 68k software should now be free.
SHUN!!!!!!!
SHUN THE NON-BELIEVERRRRRR!!!!!!!
SHUUUUUUUNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNUH!!!!!!111oneone
:laughing:
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I'm still a fan of DOpus 4. I've tried Magellan and hated it.
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I like boobs, just for the note.
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Hi, don't know incase you've seen following interview with the creators of DirectoryOpus Magellan : http://system-log.com/?p=1363
What do you think of a open source initiative (like a bounty) to make it open so this wonderful piece of software can carry on (on AROS and elsewhere) ? =)
Excellent idea. The Poseidon for AROS bounty on power2people (http://www.power2people.org/projects/overview/) worked just fine; it almost generated $4000.
From your link: "We have discussed the concept of an Open Source but there are some copyright and trademark issues. We would consider allowing this if a company or group purchased a licence as discussed above."
Well, power2people is registered (http://farm1.static.flickr.com/53/145472365_d14b08f719_o.png) as a non-profit organisation. Maybe this will suffice and meet the demands?
http://www.power2people.org/
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@Gulliver
I've got a figure what they want for a normal license so I hardly think they will release a open source solution for free.
@TMHGM
Yes, that's what I thought of.
I will point out that site to Greg and see what he thinks of that.
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@all
I've got a reply how to continue with the open source process now.
And they need a registered group (or organisation) and the one I suggested to Greg is power2people (like TMHGM wrote above), which has successfully released sources like Poseidon : http://www.power2people.org/projects/overview/
This is the anwer from Greg Perry :
Hi Stefan,
Yes P2P would be fine I think. We'd just have to licence the trademarks and copyrights to some registered organization.
__ Regards, Dr Greg Perry
This is an important software for many of us and I think we can work together in a bounty, can't we ? =)
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I would MOST CERTAINLY chip in.
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Any idea what kind of money is involved?
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übercool!!!
lets start a bounty!
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übercool!!!
lets start a bounty!
I prefer a Snickers, chewier and a bit nutty.
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This is a bounty I would support, even if I could not really afford it!
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I'm poor too, but I'd do what I could, especially when it comes to one of the greatest pieces of software ever to grace the Amiga. I understand Magellan has failed to impress everyone, but as for me, when I was running Amiga in the 90's and sized it up to Windows 95...
...well it made me feel quite superior and wise in my choice of computer hardware and software. And still yet today, I am able to do things that even Windows 7, and Mac OS X still don't offer, I.E. being a complex filing system that is capable of SOOOO MANY things, and yet uses up so few system resources. It's fast, it is responsive, highly configurable, and it's FTP friendly! ;)
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@develin
This is indeed great, have you contacted contacted Power2People?
Lets get this thing rolling. I can provide the initial donation required to start a bounty
Go, go , go...
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@ Gulliver
Power2People contacted GPSoft on February 17. There appear to be several interested parties.
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@Andre.Siegel
Thank you! I am glad they did. I hope the bounty is generated soon!
Cheers, and thank you for your work over there :)
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And still yet today, I am able to do things that even Windows 7, and Mac OS X still don't offer, I.E. being a complex filing system that is capable of SOOOO MANY things, and yet uses up so few system resources. It's fast, it is responsive, highly configurable, and it's FTP friendly! ;)
What are those things I can't think of a single one? Probably best open a new thread to reply as this is a bit offtop :)
IMHO Windows and Ubuntu really surpassed the Amiga mark around 2002/Windows XP - that's being generous, a lot of people think Windows 98/2000. I blame the Amiga magazines for the inferiority complex/delusion (no pun intended) and that made readers think that the Amiga was somehow technically superior to a 128MB PIII 500 with 32 channel sound and a 32MB 3D card because the Amiga could multitask back in 1985. It's like saying the Ford T first pushed 15 MPH and had no complex parts it's the best and simplest car - it the original, but not the best, since we've improved on the design.
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Interesting...
From the interview:
We then assigned a licence to Andreas Loong of Guru Meditation in late 2004. This was a licence to further develop the product with a three year time limit on producing a new version. While GM invested in work on the project it never came to fruition so the licence reverted back to us.
So how then, could Guru Meditation allow the inclusion of DOpus in AmiKit (http://amikit.amiga.sk/features.htm)? Does Andreas Loong still think he owns (http://amikit.amiga.sk/andreas-note.htm) it?
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I think it's a unlicensed version in Amikit. It has a nag requestor on every boot.
Interesting...
From the interview:
So how then, could Guru Meditation allow the inclusion of DOpus in AmiKit (http://amikit.amiga.sk/features.htm)? Does Andreas Loong still think he owns (http://amikit.amiga.sk/andreas-note.htm) it?
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Who's Magellan ??? and what has he/she been wrongly imprisoned for !!!
Back in the day we used to chant "Free Nelson Mandela"... :)
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Who's Magellan ??? and what has he/she been wrongly imprisoned for !!!
Back in the day we used to chant "Free Nelson Mandela"... :)
I think this thread is just a subtle way for all the Portuguese amiga users to spam us :lol:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferdinand_Magellan
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What are those things I can't think of a single one?
How do you sync any given number of folders using OSX or Windows, or even Ubuntu, from the desktop? How do you make "magic" hotkeys on those systems so that if you press a given key while copying images, those images are also converted, scaled or whatever you like in the same process? How do you build a player application with queue list on those systems? How do you group icons of different types and functions on the desktop of them? There is just so many things you can do with Directory Opus Magellan and ARexx that is not only impossible with OSX/Windows/Any given *ix desktop, they are concepts that noone have even thought of on those platforms.
Directory Opus Magellan is the one Desktop this is _not_ for "most users", it would just be a dream come true to see it become open source so we finally at least can get the most obvious flaws worked on (support for large devices/filesystems, true colour support) and have much better integration in for example MorphOS, perhaps even have AROS port - that would be excellent!
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Interesting...
From the interview:
So how then, could Guru Meditation allow the inclusion of DOpus in AmiKit (http://amikit.amiga.sk/features.htm)? Does Andreas Loong still think he owns (http://amikit.amiga.sk/andreas-note.htm) it?
Jan probably should update his text. Since the link to GuruMeditation is dead, it's more likely this is just a matter of housekeeping needed on Amikit's part.
#6
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Jan probably should update his text. Since the link to GuruMeditation is dead, it's more likely this is just a matter of housekeeping needed on Amikit's part.
Dead (http://gurumeditation.se/product_info.php?products_id=260&language=en)?
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There appear to be several interested parties.
Really? Who? Some certain MorphOS developers? I hope not.
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Dead (http://gurumeditation.se/product_info.php?products_id=260&language=en)?
Unless my browser is broken, yes.
http://amikit.amiga.sk/andreas-note.htm
^^the link to GuruMeditation.
#6
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Unless my browser is broken, yes.
http://amikit.amiga.sk/andreas-note.htm
^^the link to GuruMeditation.
Ah, works fine here - it's just a more or less empty page though.
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Ah, works fine here - it's just a more or less empty page though.
Right. But since the link worked when the original text was written, that you rightly feel is out of date...
I'm just saying this is a matter of website housekeeping, and not quite what you were thinking judging by the nature of your earlier question. Heh.
#6
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Or maybe I cannot fathom that it's already that many years ago that AmiKit added Magellan. :)
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I'm still a fan of DOpus 4. I've tried Magellan and hated it.
Me too.. DOpus 4 is still the best you can get, really!
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Me too.. DOpus 4 is still the best you can get, really!
For the feeble minded perhaps :)
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Not to be a stinker, but isn't all of what you mentioned about magellan and amiga possible with dopus9 and windows?
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Not to be a stinker, but isn't all of what you mentioned about magellan and amiga possible with dopus9 and windows?
Nope, different audience, different focus.
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Not to be a stinker, but isn't all of what you mentioned about magellan and amiga possible with dopus9 and windows?
You don't get the magic bits, pixie dust and real unicorns.
:)
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Nope, different audience, different focus.
Figures.
You don't get the magic bits, pixie dust and real unicorns.
:)
Awwww, pickle shoe! I never get anything nice :D
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NTP the 1:1 Norton Commander clone for Workbench blows away DOpus 4 and Magellan any time IMHO.
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Regarding the below, would an update today include the changes Andreas supposedly made 2004-2007?
http://system-log.com/?p=1363
"We then assigned a licence to Andreas Loong of Guru Meditation in late 2004. This was a licence to further develop the product with a three year time limit on producing a new version. While GM invested in work on the project it never came to fruition so the licence reverted back to us."
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@develin
@all
I've got a reply how to continue with the open source process now.
And they need a registered group (or organisation) and the one I suggested to Greg is power2people (like TMHGM wrote above), which has successfully released sources like Poseidon : http://www.power2people.org/projects/overview/
This is the anwer from Greg Perry :
Hi Stefan,
Yes P2P would be fine I think. We'd just have to licence the trademarks and copyrights to some registered organization.
__ Regards, Dr Greg Perry
This is an important software for many of us and I think we can work together in a bounty, can't we ? =)
I totally agree, and I really applaud your effort and initiative on this! :)
:) :) :)
@Andre.Siegel
@ Gulliver
Power2People contacted GPSoft on February 17. There appear to be several interested parties.
Exactly what does that mean? (Sorry, but English isn't my native language and it was a short statement)
Does it mean that many parties (like GPSoft, power2people, as well as, I don't know, some AROS, OS4, MorphOS representatives, etc/whatever) is interested in making Dopus open source through power2people and thinks that this is a good idea,
or
that some *other* organization/entities has expressed interest in buying the sources *for their own* purpose? (meaning: not necessarily for open sourcing purposes?)
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How do you sync any given number of folders using OSX or Windows, or even Ubuntu, from the desktop? How do you make "magic" hotkeys on those systems so that if you press a given key while copying images, those images are also converted, scaled or whatever you like in the same process?
Windows and Ubuntu have built in viewers for that, if not there are plenty of drag n drop (onto icons or windows) apps to do it.
How do you build a player application with queue list on those systems?
Unless I misunderstand here nearly all media players do this.
How do you group icons of different types and functions on the desktop of them? There is just so many things you can do with Directory Opus Magellan and ARexx that is not only impossible with OSX/Windows/Any given *ix desktop, they are concepts that noone have even thought of on those platforms.
Windows - click order by file type. Ubuntu has a number of different options depending on the desktop.
Directory Opus Magellan is the one Desktop this is _not_ for "most users", it would just be a dream come true...
I don't disagree - it brings the OS right up to date and is exactly something we need on the Amiga. The point being all of this stuff can be done on Windows/Ubuntu. My argument was with the point that this stuff couldn't be done on other OS' or done better.
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Does it mean that many parties (like GPSoft, power2people, as well as, I don't know, some AROS, OS4, MorphOS representatives, etc/whatever) is interested in making Dopus open source through power2people and thinks that this is a good idea,
or
that some *other* organization/entities has expressed interest in buying the sources *for their own* purpose? (meaning: not necessarily for open sourcing purposes?)
It means the latter.
That said, Power2People has offered its services and provided some honest and informed feedback regarding the named asking price but did not inquire about the other parties.
Now, it is for GPSoft to make a decision.
In terms of sales of the Windows version, I personally think a free Amiga version could actually be helpful in spreading the word and recreating awareness for GPSoft whereas another 'commercial' release is not likely to generate much revenue by itself nor reach too many existing users who might get tempted to try out DOpus on Windows.
But, GPSoft may very well feel different about this.
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You have to remember that Magellan2 is much more than just a file manager. It replaces whole desktop and thus brings lots of other functions too.
For example icon positioning: you can draw areas where icons will appear on desktop and give priorities to them. Like "appicons go there and when it's filled they go there, while drive icons appear here".
Very configureable startmenus to launch everything. You can have multiple instances of them and positioned anywhere. As well as user configurable screen pulldown menus.
Global hotkeys which work everywhere, not just when program itself is activated. You can do anything with them, not just filemanagement things. Launch apps, scripts, internal functions, anything.
Windows in icon mode are improved from Workbench ones (better scrolling, caching, font styles etc), as well as icon information windows etc. You don't have to use zillion patches & commodities like with WB.
Better background image settings with randoming, scaling etc.
Very comprehensive function editor makes possible to do anything with consistent way no matter if you want it happening with pulldown menus, startmenus, button banks, hotkeys, double clicking, context menus, automated script on certain event (disk insert for example). Drag&drop works almost anywhere if you want to copy functions to different places etc. Drag site from ftp address book for example to starmenu or hotkey for easy connecting.. no problem.
Extensive arexx and modules system lets you expand the program endlessly and there's tens if not hundreds 3rd party modules available to add all kinds of features. For example copy/cut/paste functionality known from Windows for files.
And of course filemanagement itself and lister handling options are way more comprehensive than with anything else on Amiga at least. In-line editing for example. You can edit filenames, dates, times, protection bits, comments etc just in the lister just like you'd be in the text editor (even go up/down without having to select new files) <3 Good file find and string search options. Pattern renaming. Recursive attribute applying. Nice internal hex viewers etc. Internal ftp and archive browsing. File name or path copying. And lots of other stuff which would need more time to write, here's just couple came in my mind :)
Magellan2's integration on the desktop makes it really unique. You don't use separate program, you just use your solid system without needing to give a think for it. You have the freedom to open as many listers as you want and resize them for each need. No need to browse back and forth and swap dirs constantly like on two view managers. You can even copy from one source to several destinations at once. I feel pretty claustrophobic with static two view managers nowadays.
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Windows and Ubuntu have built in viewers for that, if not there are plenty of drag n drop (onto icons or windows) apps to do it.
Nope, not the same thing - you didn't get the point.
Unless I misunderstand here nearly all media players do this.
But I'm not talking about a media player, I'm talking about building your own playlist manager for whatever program or reasons you might need it for. You can for example dump URLs into a lister to have them queued up for playback on remote mediacenter box. You can create mail browser or news reader with the DOpus listers... the possibilities are endless. And you can assign just about any hotkey you like.
Windows - click order by file type. Ubuntu has a number of different options depending on the desktop.
You mean Gnome, not Ubuntu. Trust me, I use Windows7, OSX, KDE3, Gnome, KDE4, XFCE4, E17 and lot of other desktops for all they're worth, and they dont really have the concepts that Magellan offer. You don't get it, and that's all fine, move along.
The point being all of this stuff can be done on Windows/Ubuntu.
No - they certainly cannot be done on Windows/Ubuntu - as a Linux users since 1994 - why would I otherwise care?
My argument was with the point that this stuff couldn't be done on other OS' or done better.
Sure, perhaps if you master zsh half as well we I do. :laughing:
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What are those things I can't think of a single one? Probably best open a new thread to reply as this is a bit offtop :)
IMHO Windows and Ubuntu really surpassed the Amiga mark around 2002/Windows XP - that's being generous, a lot of people think Windows 98/2000. I blame the Amiga magazines for the inferiority complex/delusion (no pun intended) and that made readers think that the Amiga was somehow technically superior to a 128MB PIII 500 with 32 channel sound and a 32MB 3D card because the Amiga could multitask back in 1985. It's like saying the Ford T first pushed 15 MPH and had no complex parts it's the best and simplest car - it the original, but not the best, since we've improved on the design.
1: I can quickly and smoothly navigate my folders without the random pauses that Microsoft is so keen on.
2. I can double click on the desktop to access my drivers.
3. I can open up an FTP site as a drive.
4. No Explorer crashes.
5. I don't need much more than 4Mb of RAM to do this.
6. I can totally configure my file types to be double click, right click, or interactive with a button.
7. There's more I'm sure.
Granted, OS X or Windows can probably emulate a few of these features with a concoction of 3rd party software (I.E. Dopus), but it ain't no where near the same as on an Amiga, just slower, bulkier, and less responsive, and out right impossible on a machine with the same specs of an Amiga.
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What are those things I can't think of a single one? Probably best open a new thread to reply as this is a bit offtop :)
IMHO Windows and Ubuntu really surpassed the Amiga mark around 2002/Windows XP - that's being generous, a lot of people think Windows 98/2000. I blame the Amiga magazines for the inferiority complex/delusion (no pun intended) and that made readers think that the Amiga was somehow technically superior to a 128MB PIII 500 with 32 channel sound and a 32MB 3D card because the Amiga could multitask back in 1985. It's like saying the Ford T first pushed 15 MPH and had no complex parts it's the best and simplest car - it the original, but not the best, since we've improved on the design.
You have to remember that Magellan2 is much more than just a file manager. It replaces whole desktop and thus brings lots of other functions too.
For example icon positioning: you can draw areas where icons will appear on desktop and give priorities to them. Like "appicons go there and when it's filled they go there, while drive icons appear here".
Very configureable startmenus to launch everything. You can have multiple instances of them and positioned anywhere. As well as user configurable screen pulldown menus.
Global hotkeys which work everywhere, not just when program itself is activated. You can do anything with them, not just filemanagement things. Launch apps, scripts, internal functions, anything.
Windows in icon mode are improved from Workbench ones (better scrolling, caching, font styles etc), as well as icon information windows etc. You don't have to use zillion patches & commodities like with WB.
Better background image settings with randoming, scaling etc.
Very comprehensive function editor makes possible to do anything with consistent way no matter if you want it happening with pulldown menus, startmenus, button banks, hotkeys, double clicking, context menus, automated script on certain event (disk insert for example). Drag&drop works almost anywhere if you want to copy functions to different places etc. Drag site from ftp address book for example to starmenu or hotkey for easy connecting.. no problem.
Extensive arexx and modules system lets you expand the program endlessly and there's tens if not hundreds 3rd party modules available to add all kinds of features. For example copy/cut/paste functionality known from Windows for files.
And of course filemanagement itself and lister handling options are way more comprehensive than with anything else on Amiga at least. In-line editing for example. You can edit filenames, dates, times, protection bits, comments etc just in the lister just like you'd be in the text editor (even go up/down without having to select new files) <3 Good file find and string search options. Pattern renaming. Recursive attribute applying. Nice internal hex viewers etc. Internal ftp and archive browsing. File name or path copying. And lots of other stuff which would need more time to write, here's just couple came in my mind :)
Magellan2's integration on the desktop makes it really unique. You don't use separate program, you just use your solid system without needing to give a think for it. You have the freedom to open as many listers as you want and resize them for each need. No need to browse back and forth and swap dirs constantly like on two view managers. You can even copy from one source to several destinations at once. I feel pretty claustrophobic with static two view managers nowadays.
And what he said! :) Great points!
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Nope, not the same thing - you didn't get the point.
But I'm not talking about a media player, I'm talking about building your own playlist manager for whatever program or reasons you might need it for. You can for example dump URLs into a lister to have them queued up for playback on remote mediacenter box. You can create mail browser or news reader with the DOpus listers... the possibilities are endless. And you can assign just about any hotkey you like.
Drag and drop dumping URLs and not surprisingly in a list manager they queue. Generally speaking a list of RSS feeds != media player lists and I would expect them to be dealt with separately.
You mean Gnome, not Ubuntu.
Or KDE, or... splitting hairs.
Trust me, I use Windows7, OSX, KDE3, Gnome, KDE4, XFCE4, E17 and lot of other desktops for all they're worth, and they dont really have the concepts that Magellan offer. You don't get it, and that's all fine, move along.
Oh please spare the sanctimonious claptrap - being dismissive just infers to me you have a weak argument. Rolling off a list of window managers doesn't impress when you're talking about a file manager with benefits. As I've already said - most modern UIs do this stuff (I shall clarify, do this out of the box, may need tweaking/plugins etc.). My point of argument is suggesting that work in a file manager cannot be done in any other OS' UI is either wilful ignorance or naivety, the argument is NOT that Magellan has unique benefits (which it does in that it can help manage lists all in one place).
No - they certainly cannot be done on Windows/Ubuntu - as a Linux users since 1994 - why would I otherwise care?
I've been a Sun OS/Solaris 2.4 (Unix) user since '97 having even owned my own SparcStation and external network drive does that make me understand a file manager better? No? Wow... I am astounded.
On a side note, bless my old SparcStation I gave it away years ago but that clunky machine had personality and just enough 64 bit power in a 173Mhz processor to run Solaris 10. *Sigh*
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1: I can quickly and smoothly navigate my folders without the random pauses that Microsoft is so keen on.
You have a point. I'd say the benefits of auto refreshing/navigating/accessing potentially massive folders on a journalled filesystem and doing file type identification to aid with preview (if enabled) and file corruption prevention outweigh the disadvantages but I'm willing to cede this because it occasionally bugs me too. I tend to only see it on network file copy in Windows 7 however (probably DRM checking).
2. I can double click on the desktop to access my drivers.
Windows users can do that with shortcuts on the desktop. You can also have quick launchers for explorer locations in Windows.
3. I can open up an FTP site as a drive.
You can also do this or even choose to use Webdav instead. (Quick how to if you're really interested (http://cybernetnews.com/cybernotes-map-a-ftp-to-a-drive-in-windows/))
4. No Explorer crashes.
I haven't had one of these in years (mostly Win 98 era), but I can just restart it via task manager if I have problems. I do see a lot of Amiga WB crashes that require me to do a full reboot.
5. I don't need much more than 4Mb of RAM to do this.
But it's only providing basic functionality - playing a better than VGA video, copying a DVD or anything requiring buffering is going to take a long time.
6. I can totally configure my file types to be double click, right click, or interactive with a button.
Ubuntu provided button swapping functionality for single double etc. You can even change the handiness of the mouse and I suspect Windows also allows this.
7. There's more I'm sure.
Granted, OS X or Windows can probably emulate a few of these features with a concoction of 3rd party software (I.E. Dopus), but it ain't no where near the same as on an Amiga, just slower, bulkier, and less responsive, and out right impossible on a machine with the same specs of an Amiga.
I'm digressing a bit from the point and going onto the Amiga in general -
bulkier I agree with - but I prefer to have the added bells and whistles. Get a brute of a machine and it irons out those responsiveness kinks. I'm not saying underpowered compared to todays machines is bad (I do own Amigas ;) ), but when it comes down to getting a modern workload done fast (converting DVDs, preparing multiple GBs of files for an MP3 player, streaming HD video etc) I'd rather do it with that machine!
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And what he said! :) Great points!
Yes but the majority (if not all of these) can be done in Gnome (note I'm not mentioning Windows here).
As mentioned it's great to see things like "Very configureable startmenus" (on Windows - toolbars, Gnome probably has the same), "Global hotkeys which work everywhere" (again Gnome), "Very comprehensive function editor" (on Gnome perl, python etc etc all industry standards, and at a push can install Rexx too) etc come to Amiga OS. I'm in no doubt the last point is good specifically for the Amiga file managment as compared to using perl but I really wouldn't want to have to learn a proprietry(?) new function editor just to manipulate files automatically based on decisions. If you're used to writing it, and have a pang of nostaglia for it then of course it's going to look better than a general purpose language :) To not labour this any longer - we've found newer and somewhat better ways of doing the same things which are available in other OS but I'm very happy that this sort of stuff is getting open sourced on the Amiga.
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@brownb2
So you're saying we should use Gnome, KDE or whatever instead of bothering with what is the topic of this thread - why don't you just take a hike already.
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Windows users can do that with shortcuts on the desktop. You can also have quick launchers for explorer locations in Windows.
This conversation is bit difficult as you apparently haven't used Magellan2 ever and aren't familiar with terms and behaviour of it. So, we're getting misconceptions on almost every point, because you try to adapt terms in Windows/Linux features.
Double clicking in desktop meant that you'll get device list window opened whenever you double click any empty point at desktop. With device list you get quick access to any mounted volume or any defined assign. So, predefined shortcuts won't do the same thing as they don't automatically adapt with removable media and changing mounts/assigns. Not to talk about getting it opened anywhere when visible screen area changes with opened windows etc.
You can also do this or even choose to use Webdav instead. (Quick how to if you're really interested (http://cybernetnews.com/cybernotes-map-a-ftp-to-a-drive-in-windows/))
On Magellan2 ftp isn't statical mounting or mapping. It's more like comprehensive ftp client integrated in the file manager. You don't have to keep sites mounted longer than you need them at the moment. It has good addressbook with versatile per site options. I for example have around 130 sites defined on it (ok I used to trade a bit). You can integrate site opening easily everywhere in the program. And you can open new sites just by typing the url in the lister's location string. File management functions adapt to ftp use and for example file attributes etc work differently than on standard Amiga filesystems, but still you handle everything same way no matter if it's ftp or local dir. You also can see on site messages etc. So it's good compromize between separate ftp client and mounted ftp.
But it's only providing basic functionality - playing a better than VGA video, copying a DVD or anything requiring buffering is going to take a long time.
Those aren't filemanager's issues. It depends of on what system you are using it and what external programs you configure in the manager etc. Of course it's not limited to only low end machines even if it _can_ be used. I use Magellan2 with 1.5GHz Mac mini and 1GB memory and it's extremely fast.
Ubuntu provided button swapping functionality for single double etc. You can even change the handiness of the mouse and I suspect Windows also allows this.
It wasn't at all about button swapping. It was about configuring the program to do different things when you click file with different ways.
Like if you double click a jpeg image, it opens it on certain viewer. And if you right click it, you get more features to open it on editors or whatever. Or how it is processed when you drag&drop it on other location. Or if you double click it with control or some other qualifier key pressed. It can be made to open yet different programs or even make it to do some image processing events automatically for it then or whatever your imagination allows.
All can be configured easily and you can even define configurations for certain file type groups. For example some functions are available for all images, but then some more detailed functions just for png images etc.
but when it comes down to getting a modern workload done fast (converting DVDs, preparing multiple GBs of files for an MP3 player, streaming HD video etc) I'd rather do it with that machine!
Magellan2 is just perfect for those! Aren't we talking about the program, not the platform you run it?
As mentioned it's great to see things like "Very configureable startmenus" (on Windows - toolbars, Gnome probably has the same)
On Windows they aren't that configurable for the user. You can't have total control of them in same way. And how they are consistent and cooperative with other components of the system.
"Very comprehensive function editor" (on Gnome perl, python etc etc all industry standards, and at a push can install Rexx too) etc come to Amiga OS. I'm in no doubt the last point is good specifically for the Amiga file managment as compared to using perl but I really wouldn't want to have to learn a proprietry(?) new function editor just to manipulate files automatically based on decisions.
Again some misconception with terms. On dopus function editor is used to tell what program does on certain event. It's basic methods and options selected on the event. Those scripting languages are options what function editor then tells to execute. So they're deeper level things and I didn't mean them. Everyone knows what they can be used then.
In function editor you can define what commands (internal, amigados, workbench, script, arexx) are executed in what order and what data is provided to them. Do they need some output options, do they need to be executed asynchronously, do they need more data with different type of requesters (string, secure string, file/dir requester etc), what info of the files or environment are given etc etc. It just gives you possibilities to do everything you can imagine without needing to think any external tricks or scripting language knowledge etc.
And this function editor is used for all actions like those filetype definitions, startmenus, hotkeys, automatic script launching, button banks, lister functions, pulldown system menus etc, giving the consistency I've mentioned earlier for the whole system.
we've found newer and somewhat better ways of doing the same things which are available in other OS but I'm very happy that this sort of stuff is getting open sourced on the Amiga.
I haven't found anything similar although I've used lots of different systems for my work and fun.
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@brownb2
So you're saying we should use Gnome, KDE or whatever instead of bothering with what is the topic of this thread - why don't you just take a hike already.
Read my posts - I haven't said that. What I objected to and have stated in a few of the posts is the belief that other OS don't do what Workbench + Magellan is capable of. Thanks I intended to go hiking this weekend - who told you?
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This conversation is bit difficult as you apparently haven't used Magellan2 ever and aren't familiar...
Guilty as charged, I assumed it was a suped up DOPus 4/5 with desktop integration. Was I far wrong?
So it's good compromize between separate ftp client and mounted ftp.
I completely agree - again what I disagreed with originally was that features such as this were not available in other OS. I entirely agree with the rest of the quote in Magellan's ability.
Magellan2 is just perfect for those! Aren't we talking about the program, not the platform you run it?
Sadly although I'm trying to keep it on track we are talking about the abilities of Magellan2 and doing stuff with similar ease these days in other OS.
My comments are getting replied to in the belief that somehow I'm saying that the Amiga + Magellan is inferior, what I have been saying is that PCs UI in general have met or bettered it in some circumstances which would be expected since innovation is often copied.
On Windows they aren't that configurable for the user. You can't have total control of them in same way. And how they are consistent and cooperative with other components of the system.
It was my belief that file associations, right click Open With et al would replicate this behaviour.
In function editor you can define what commands (internal, amigados, workbench, script, arexx) are executed in what order and what data is provided to them. Do they need some output options, do they need to be executed asynchronously, do they need more data with different type of requesters (string, secure string, file/dir requester etc), what info of the files or environment are given etc etc. It just gives you possibilities to do everything you can imagine without needing to think any external tricks or scripting language knowledge etc.
Okay I see your point, you'd need extra programs to do this in other OS - but I imagine they are available.
I haven't found anything similar although I've used lots of different systems for my work and fun.
This is where there is a key difference I think - I've never looked for things similar, I've looked to do the same thing but in a different way and so my original post would have been best recognised as the other systems can't do what the Amiga does in the same way.
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Guilty as charged, I assumed it was a suped up DOPus 4/5 with desktop integration. Was I far wrong?
Well, DOpus 4 has very little to do here and Magellan2 is the last incarnation of DOpus 5.
It was my belief that file associations, right click Open With et al would replicate this behaviour.
That's more like filetypes on DOpus. It also has similar "Open With" feature, but it's just minor feature among the others. It's too clumsy to use compared to other methods (just as clumsy as on Windows too).
But the talk was about "startmenus", which are similar hierarchial menus like you have on windows on lower left corner (by default). But instead you can have many of them anywhere you want and they're all very configureable both visually and functionally. Mostly used as program/location launchers like on Windows too, but can be used for anything else like all components of Magellan2 like I've been trying to explain.
Okay I see your point, you'd need extra programs to do this in other OS - but I imagine they are available.
Even if there were for some parts, they wouldn't give the same consistency throughout the system.
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What I objected to and have stated in a few of the posts is the belief that other OS don't do what Workbench + Magellan is capable of.
This thread is not about Workbench, it's about DOpus Magellan and that only. And indeed, it is the case that no other OS or desktop environment offers what DOpus Magellan does - why is this so hard to grasp?
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This thread is not about Workbench, it's about DOpus Magellan and that only. And indeed, it is the case that no other OS or desktop environment offers what DOpus Magellan does - why is this so hard to grasp?
Well it is a bunch of arguing, but from someones perspective who when originally used his amiga thought along the lines of "DirectoryOpus? Is that some new Bitmap Brothers game?", it is getting me excited for a possible OS version (or small shareware fee), as I was 100% ignorant of its many uses, using it only when I needed to move files from CD to my harddrives easily :).
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brownb2: Do you mean to say that you can double click on the desktop to access your drives in Windows, or that you can just put short cuts to the drives as icons and click on those? If you are talking about the latter, I'm aware of that. It's the idea of not having to have any icons that I really like, though that's not to say I don't have a couple short cuts to games sitting there. :)
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Who's Magellan ??? and what has he/she been wrongly imprisoned for !!!
Magellan narrowly escaped the Battle of MacTan in the Phillipines, but was declared dead. After his arrival in TriniData he was arrested for failure to identify himself. Nobody believed him, because his death had already been proclaimed. So he is sitting in prison since 1523 (=0x5F3). ;)
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It's the idea of not having to have any icons that I really like, though that's not to say I don't have a couple short cuts to games sitting there. :)
Yeah, I actually don't have any icons on my main A1200's desktop. Not even single drive icon.
I've found it much quicker and easier to access locations through doubleclick on desktop, dedicated drive button bank or startmenus. Icons are messy and always hard to reach behind some window. And they only open one location per icon, which is a waste as you could open different location with mmb or rmb for example :)
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It means the latter.
That said, Power2People has offered its services and provided some honest and informed feedback regarding the named asking price but did not inquire about the other parties.
Now, it is for GPSoft to make a decision.
In terms of sales of the Windows version, I personally think a free Amiga version could actually be helpful in spreading the word and recreating awareness for GPSoft whereas another 'commercial' release is not likely to generate much revenue by itself nor reach too many existing users who might get tempted to try out DOpus on Windows.
But, GPSoft may very well feel different about this.
Is there any progress in getting the sources?
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Based on the information the rights holders provided to us, Power2People has concluded that we are sadly unable to pursue this any further.
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:(
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Based on the information the rights holders provided to us, Power2People has concluded that we are sadly unable to pursue this any further.
:(
Are you able to make this information public?
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What information?
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Based on the information the rights holders provided to us, Power2People has concluded that we are sadly unable to pursue this any further.
Why ?
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Why ?
Among other things, the asking price was not a sum that we feel could be raised within a reasonable amount of time (if ever). We provided extensive information about prior Amiga-related bounty projects that had been organized by Power2People and other parties but were obviously unsuccessful to convince the rights holders to lower the asking price to what we would consider an attainable amount.
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:(
What a shame our world is inhabited with such greedy and selfish people.
Thank you for trying, and for letting us know, Andre.
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So what was the price?
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I think all classic 68k software should now be free.
Yeah. ROMS too. Well, I guess that's what AROS is for, partly.
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What a shame our world is inhabited with such greedy and selfish people. Thank you for trying, and for letting us know, Andre.
We have no intention to speculate about the motivations of the rights holders.
But, just for the sake of completeness, it should be mentioned that these type of decisions do not always have to be about greed, however.
In some cases, developers encounter emotional barriers when they have to attach a seemingly low price to a piece of intellectual property they created over the course of many, many years. This process may mean having to admit to yourself that your past accomplishments have little value (anymore), which is easier said than done in some cases.
For others, it can be difficult to imagine other supposedly less qualified developers take over and potentially ruin the reputation of what used to be a well respected piece of software. Unless there is a sizable amount of money involved, some developers might not be willing to take that risk especially if you are still selling a modern version of the same application for another platform.
Plus, there are some people who develop software for a living and are sceptical about the concept of giving away source code for little to no money since this seems to go against their own interest to sell their services at fair market prices so they can provide for their families.
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So, you saying they might just be uptight assholes and not greedy? :)
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Among other things, the asking price was not a sum that we feel could be raised within a reasonable amount of time (if ever). We provided extensive information about prior Amiga-related bounty projects that had been organized by Power2People and other parties but were obviously unsuccessful to convince the rights holders to lower the asking price to what we would consider an attainable amount.
Fair enough. I guess what happened with the canceled OS4 port by Guru Meditation didn't make them grow in confidence as well...
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So what was the price?
Very low five figures, which seemed very high when we put it in relation to the total amount of funds that had been collected by the community in the past few years.
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Fair enough. I guess what happened with the canceled OS4 port by Guru Meditation didn't make them grow in confidence as well...
Weren't they also screwed over by Hyperion before that?