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Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: Kesa on January 31, 2011, 12:43:05 PM
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First of all i'm kicking myself waiting for the NatAmi to finally arrive. When it does i am going to buy it without a second thought :)
There has been lots of talk about the hardware of NatAmi but nothing about what it will run on. Which Amiga os would be the most ideal to use?
WB3.x - The NatAmi is vastly more powerful than the machines WB3.x was intended for. So i think it would be a shame to use an inferior os that will never realize the NatAmi's potiental. So do we stick with WB3.x or do we look for something else that can take advantage of it's higher performance?
I think the worst thing we can do is let Hyperion join in on the NatAmi revolution. They will only trash it with help from Amigainc. They will probably start charging users fees or some other BS. The appeal for me with the upcoming NatAmi is that we can make a fresh start away from Legal BS from the Amiga camp and potientally start a new platform. So maybe A4.x classic wouldn't be a wise choice.
I'm also wondering how Morphos would be like running on Natami. This would seem a good idea to me. But maybe the purists would reject it.
Aros is unrealistic as a Natami os as the development is too long. The delay it would take would only allow Hyperion to get a headstart.
I'm dreaming of switching on my NatAmi and seeing a os load up with NatAmi Workbench 1.2 or 1.3 just like it was 20 odd years ago.
I think the NatAmi has great potiental in the future to really shake things up a bit in the divided Amiga community. Especially if they end up selling thousands of them and not just a hundred or two.
So what does everyone think? :)
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I'm also wondering how Morphos would be like running on Natami.
You can stop wondering, it won't ever run on natami.
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You can stop wondering, it won't ever run on natami.
Stop ruining my fantasy!
It would be ironic if it did though. All that effort to move away from it only to move back again... :rolleyes:
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Natami is a never ending project anyway. There will always be something blocking the release of the consumer version.
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There has been lots of talk about the hardware of NatAmi but nothing about what it will run on. Which Amiga os would be the most ideal to use?
AROS68K...
I think the NatAmi has great potiental in the future to really shake things up a bit in the divided Amiga community. Especially if they end up selling thousands of them and not just a hundred or two.
So what does everyone think? :)
I think they'll be lucky if they sell "a hundred or two". Natami will be very expensive for what it actually is... a retro hobby system. I doubt you'll see people lining up to buy one.
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I think the whole point of the NatAmi is to have as close as you can get a modern piece of hardware that runs in 68K but does things a wee bit faster than even an Amiga with a fast 060 board can... :)
So OS4.x if out of the question as that is PPC based (thank gawd... :))
Piru has made it clear it won't be MorphOS (thank gawd.. :))
AROS not really sure about it (thank gawd... :))
Workbench 3.x... Seems to me that's what the NatAmi is going to actually be made for... (THANK GAWD & THE NATAMI DEVELOPERS :))
(Pancakes... well you never know, as long as they're 3.x... :))
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Kickstart 1.0 and Workbench 1.0 :)
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I'd probably use WB3.1, but I might give AROS a shot, just to see if I like it.
Also yeah, no way it's ever going to run OS4 or MorphOS, unless someone develops a PPC accelerator for it (which would be pretty silly) or the OSes get non-PPC versions (not likely, if they haven't done so already.)
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I think they'll be lucky if they sell "a hundred or two". Natami will be very expensive for what it actually is... a retro hobby system. I doubt you'll see people lining up to buy one.
Says he... who thinks CUSA are going to take on Apple and thinks CUSAs PCs aren't expensive... :rolleyes:
(are the queues forming round the block outside CUSAs "Apple Style Computer Boutiques" yet... :roflmao:)
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Says he... who thinks CUSA are going to take on Apple and thinks CUSAs PCs aren't expensive... :rolleyes:
(are the queues forming round the block outside CUSAs "Apple Style Computer Boutiques" yet... :roflmao:)
+1 Franko :lol:
My Guess is that they are using WB3.1 with some patches from AFA OS and AROS, Im sure Samuel Crow (NATAMI's Software guy) could answer this ;)
For thoses who care this is the latest update: http://www.natami.net/knowledge.php?b=2¬e=31886&x=4
André Jernung
Sweden
(Natami Team Member)
Posts 410
31 Jan 2011 11:28
@Amiga Ppc Thomas has received the PCB:s. Assembly of the first board for testing will most likely begin this week.
:afro:
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Natami is closed source too? I guess it will end up in the same legal battles we've already seen.
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There really is no option for the NatAmi other then AROS68K. They could use AOS 1.x-3.x but that would have to be either them buying from Cloanto or making a long term deal with AI. I can't see them putting out the investment for either and having to raise NatAmi's price to cover the additional expense(s).
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@ DCAmiga
Just goes to show the difference between the NatAmi Team & CUSA... :) (Not that there's any comparison really... :))
The NatAmi team has the decency and maturity not to just delete a comment that is not in their favour and responded to it in the appropriate fashion, heck they could have just deleted it and closed the discussion in true CUSA fashion and pretended nothing actually happened... :)
CUSA is a sad joke of a company, but I will say this for them, they do make me laugh... :))
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I understood Natami was to be (near?) 100% compatible with OS3.1 but with extensions to access the more advanced hardware? In which case a patched 3.1 would make sense. I assumed they'd sell the hardware without an OS, users would then be responsible for OS installation (avoiding any legal complications). Most users already own a legal copy of 3.0 / 3.1 anyway. Not sure about the ROM's though?
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I understood Natami was to be (near?) 100% compatible with OS3.1 but with extensions to access the more advanced hardware? In which case a patched 3.1 would make sense. I assumed they'd sell the hardware without an OS, users would then be responsible for OS installation (avoiding any legal complications). Most users already own a legal copy of 3.0 / 3.1 anyway. Not sure about the ROM's though?
That would be my guess as well. they'll encourage ASROS68K development as i will provide a legal OS, but the systems probably will ship w/o an OS.
This would allow end users to install whatever variant they choose.
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Says he... who thinks CUSA are going to take on Apple and thinks CUSAs PCs aren't expensive... :rolleyes:
Yeah, there's the hilarious bit :D "C-USA is the way of the future with their generic hardware in slightly-less-generic cases, but NatAmi is doomed to fail, fail, fail! And it's totally going to be super-expensive even though there hasn't even been a price set yet!"
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Yeah, there's the hilarious bit :D "C-USA is the way of the future with their generic hardware in slightly-less-generic cases, but NatAmi is doomed to fail, fail, fail! And it's totally going to be super-expensive even though there hasn't even been a price set yet!"
It will be very expensive(for what it is)...
Atari Coldfire is 599 euros(no VAT), and it uses a much cheaper CPU(Coldfire vs 68060) and a smaller FPGA. I'll be suprised if Natami undercuts SAM460 in price and not very surprised if it is more expensive.
That's just too much for a retro hobby thingy...
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It will be very expensive(for what it is)...
Atari Coldfire is 599 euros(no VAT), and it uses a much cheaper CPU(Coldfire vs 68060) and a smaller FPGA. I'll be suprised if Natami undercuts SAM460 in price and not very surprised if it is more expensive.
That's just too much for a retro hobby thingy...
Maybe a "retro hobby thingy" to you mate, but it's a hell of a lot more than that to me... :)
And pray tell, what's the rough prices for CUSAs upcoming PCs ???
Oooppps, forgot you can't read this cos of the ignore thingy... :roflmao:
In that case I'll take this opportunity to say... SHUT UP... PLEASE... :biglaugh:
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NatAmi isn't going to use an actual 060, though, except in the test models (SamuraiCrow can feel free to correct me if I've misread their site.) They're using a custom 68k variant within the FPGA. I'd bet that the lack of a $100 CPU would definitely offset the cost of a larger FPGA, so I'd be surprised if it's as expensive as the Atari Coldfire, let alone anywhere near as pricey as the SAM460. We'll have to see, though.
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And pray tell, what's the rough prices for CUSAs upcoming PCs ???
Oh, but that doesn't count, because they're not just a "hobby system," they're Real Computers! That you could, you know, assemble from components yourself and save money if you understand the arcane arts of operating a screwdriver and putting a plug into a socket, but then it wouldn't be AMIGA!!! because it doesn't have the boing-ball sticker...
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NatAmi isn't going to use an actual 060, though, except in the test models (SamuraiCrow can feel free to correct me if I've misread their site.) They're using a custom 68k variant within the FPGA. I'd bet that the lack of a $100 CPU would definitely offset the cost of a larger FPGA, so I'd be surprised if it's as expensive as the Atari Coldfire, let alone anywhere near as pricey as the SAM460. We'll have to see, though.
The Natami page lists(under specification)...
http://www.natami.net/specification.htm
68060 CPU on board for instant compatibility with AMIGA software and Operating Systems for Amiga-Hardware
[/LIST]
If that is true, than say hello to SAM460 prices.
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The Natami page lists(under specification)...
http://www.natami.net/specification.htm
If that is true, than say hello to SAM460 prices.
Hmmm... he's got a fascination with NatAmi, maybe he's a closet NatAmi fan and only using the CUSA FanBoy thing as a cover... :)
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Also, pictures over at Natami site (http://www.natami.net/hardware.htm) show a 68060 board on top of the baseboard...
I had a talk about building a Coldfire based accelerator with a guy on the local amiga forum. During the discussion he mentioned the lowest retail price for the slowest 68060(50 MHz)... It was 300+ $(326, to be exact). Sure, Freescale will offer it to you at 90$ a piece - if you order 10 000 CPUs :). So, I think my estimate of SAM460 prices could be spot on(btw, that's just for the motherboard).
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Also, pictures over at Natami site (http://www.natami.net/hardware.htm) show a 68060 board on top of the baseboard...
The CPU card is optional as soon as they get their 68050 soft core in place and fully tested. Don't know if it'll be from launch, but they've been running the 68050 core for some time on FPGA dev boards, as far as I understand.
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First of all i'm kicking myself waiting for the NatAmi to finally arrive. When it does i am going to buy it without a second thought :)
There has been lots of talk about the hardware of NatAmi but nothing about what it will run on. Which Amiga os would be the most ideal to use?
Seems a bit premature (to me) for you to be wondering this. The Natami doesn't exist yet in a form we can buy and may never exist (hopefully it will, but I never believe any hardware announcements in Amigaland until I see it for sale).
I really wanted to buy a Natami in 2008. I was hoping my Amiga would last until then so I could switch over to the Natami. By 2008, it had been several years since it had been announced and the first Natamis were supposed to be available that summer.
My Amiga did break down that year, the Natami wasn't around, I was forced against my preference to switch to a Windows box running WinUAE.
But - then I discovered that emulation was not the devil I had thought it would be - it was actually an AWESOME Amiga experience! I could do all the processor and memory intensive productivity work I wanted to much faster and much cheaper.
Still, if the Natami had been around in 2008 things would have played out differently and I would now be a Natami owner.
I might still buy one if they are cheap enough. I support the idea of making a 68K based Amiga clone with enhancements.
To answer your original question, I think OS3.1 or 3.9 would be really what it has been designed for. Hopefully the AROS kickstart replacement will be available by then to make all things nice and legal.
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If the team rebuilds 4.1 Classic and if it's allowed by Hyperion (I don't think they will, but you never know), then it could be pretty good.
I don't see the point of running 3.1/3.9 on it.
AROS or MorphOS is a no go anyway, I rather have a true Amiga OS on it than those 2.
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Also, pictures over at Natami site (http://www.natami.net/hardware.htm) show a 68060 board on top of the baseboard...
I had a talk about building a Coldfire based accelerator with a guy on the local amiga forum. During the discussion he mentioned the lowest retail price for the slowest 68060(50 MHz)... It was 300+ $(326, to be exact). Sure, Freescale will offer it to you at 90$ a piece - if you order 10 000 CPUs :). So, I think my estimate of SAM460 prices could be spot on(btw, that's just for the motherboard).
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260618840054&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_2141wt_1139
$38 + $3 S&H
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Make a substitute for classics amigas with any different to the classics OS (with drivers for all of this über aga chipset of course) its a waste of time. Anyway... how many years is natami on development? fantasyware.
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Make a substitute for classics amigas with any different to the classics OS (with drivers for all of this über aga chipset of course) its a waste of time. Anyway... how many years is natami on development? fantasyware.
You could very well be right, I hope not. I did think the same about AROS for a long time, and the Pandora handheld.They both started off slow, and then started building up momentum when developers started to get excited about their progress.
I thought Natami with 060 was for developers early adopters?. And I to though they were a fair way along with the FPGA CPU. if it's £500-600 quid, i'm out ;(
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I thought Natami with 060 was for developers early adopters?. And I to though they were a fair way along with the FPGA CPU. if it's £500-600 quid, i'm out ;(
That's what I thought, too. Moonywolf is going off of the NatAmi site, but I recall from previous discussions that the information there is severely outdated...
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That's what I thought, too. Moonywolf is going off of the NatAmi site, but I recall from previous discussions that the information there is severely outdated...
Even without the 68060, it's still going to be expensive...
C-one and Minimig are what... 300-400 euros? Something many times as poweful, with a much bigger FPGA, more memory and 68060(on the first models)... I'll be suprised if it isn't 1000 euros or more(with 060)... Later they will get cheaper, but how much, it remains to be seen.
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If Natami sells 200, I think they'll consider it is a success. I'd certainly love to own one.
They aren't taking anyones money, so no need to get fussed up about when it'll be out.
AROS 68K or plain old 3.1 should work fine on it. It's intended to.
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C-one and Minimig are what... 300-400 euros?
Only 130euros for the Minimig.
http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=777
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Even without the 68060, it's still going to be expensive...
C-one and Minimig are what... 300-400 euros? Something many times as poweful, with a much bigger FPGA, more memory and 68060(on the first models)... I'll be suprised if it isn't 1000 euros or more(with 060)... Later they will get cheaper, but how much, it remains to be seen.
Hmm... at 300 to 400 euros for a Minimig (which is waaaay out as Tone007 has shown) and all your other guesstimates at the prices of the NatAmi, I sure hope for your sake you don't dabble in stocks & shares... :)
What's your guesstimate for a CUSA machine, two bob and a packet of stale peanuts would be mine... :)
Dang... keep forgetting you don't read my posts... oh well... :)
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Haiku 68k with AROS Hosted would be cool.
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I want Amiga OS 3.X with the Natami, and i will be glad to buy one up to 400 EUR. It would still be a good price compared to classic hardware.
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I want Amiga OS 3.X with the Natami, and i will be glad to buy one up to 400 EUR. It would still be a good price compared to classic hardware.
This. Even 400 EUR (and that's a high estimate, judging by the Minimig cost) would be a bargain compared to what it would cost to get a classic Amiga up to anywhere near the estimated performance, and well within a lot of our budgets for retrocomputing hardware.
But I suppose Wolftothemoon can't accept the idea of paying that kind of money for anything that doesn't have an Amiga sticker and slightly-customized case on it...
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Well, if sells around 300-400 euro, I will buy 1.
If it's over 600, no way, or it's configuration has to be that good to justify it.
Whatever the OS, it will still have to run games as well.
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This. Even 400 EUR (and that's a high estimate, judging by the Minimig cost) would be a bargain compared to what it would cost to get a classic Amiga up to anywhere near the estimated performance, and well within a lot of our budgets for retrocomputing hardware.
But I suppose Wolftothemoon can't accept the idea of paying that kind of money for anything that doesn't have an Amiga sticker and slightly-customized case on it...
+1 :)
(although to be honest if the NatAmi can do all it claims then considering an 060 board goes for well over £300 these days on ebay I'd happily pay a grand for a brand new bit of kit with those specs... :))
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This. Even 400 EUR (and that's a high estimate, judging by the Minimig cost) would be a bargain compared to what it would cost to get a classic Amiga up to anywhere near the estimated performance, and well within a lot of our budgets for retrocomputing hardware.
But I suppose Wolftothemoon can't accept the idea of paying that kind of money for anything that doesn't have an Amiga sticker and slightly-customized case on it...
You wont see NATAMI at that price...
Minimig is 160 euros, yes... basic configuration... add 4 MB(68 euros) and ARM controller and it will be around 300 euros.
C-one is 333 euros.
These are all significantly less powerful computers with smaller FPGAs then Natami.
If anything, you should compare it to Atari Firebee(599 euros no VAT), which has a dirt cheap Coldfire and a smaller FPGA, but it is at least comparable in power and add ons. First models with 68060 will be even more expensive.
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You wont see NATAMI at that price...
Minimig is 160 euros, yes... basic configuration... add 4 MB(68 euros) and ARM controller and it will be around 300 euros.
C-one is 333 euros.
These are all significantly less powerful computers with smaller FPGAs then Natami.
If anything, you should compare it to Atari Firebee(599 euros no VAT), which has a dirt cheap Coldfire and a smaller FPGA, but it is at least comparable in power and add ons. First models with 68060 will be even more expensive.
He's right. The NatAmi will have a much larger FPGA than the MiniMig or even the Retro Replay board. It will probably cost around 750-850 Euros for the prototypes and only after the bugs are worked out will we have a Altera HardCopy version of the FPGA made (assuming that's still the most cost-effective technology for making fixed-functionality chips).
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68 EUR for 4MB? What a gyp... And even 600+ EUR would be cost-effective compared to the upgrades you'd need to bring a 68k Amiga anywhere near this level of performance.
But please, continue! Any more reasons you'd like to share why NatAmi is Inevitably Doomed To Fail?
He's right. The NatAmi will have a much larger FPGA than the MiniMig or even the Retro Replay board. It will probably cost around 750-850 Euros for the prototypes and only after the bugs are worked out will we have a Altera HardCopy version of the FPGA made (assuming that's still the most cost-effective technology for making fixed-functionality chips).
Hmm. Any estimate on what the cost would be once the hard-copy version is out?
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First of all i'm kicking myself waiting for the NatAmi to finally arrive. When it does i am going to buy it without a second thought :)
There has been lots of talk about the hardware of NatAmi but nothing about what it will run on. Which Amiga os would be the most ideal to use?
WB3.x - The NatAmi is vastly more powerful than the machines WB3.x was intended for. So i think it would be a shame to use an inferior os that will never realize the NatAmi's potiental. So do we stick with WB3.x or do we look for something else that can take advantage of it's higher performance?
I think the worst thing we can do is let Hyperion join in on the NatAmi revolution. They will only trash it with help from Amigainc. They will probably start charging users fees or some other BS. The appeal for me with the upcoming NatAmi is that we can make a fresh start away from Legal BS from the Amiga camp and potientally start a new platform. So maybe A4.x classic wouldn't be a wise choice.
I'm also wondering how Morphos would be like running on Natami. This would seem a good idea to me. But maybe the purists would reject it.
Aros is unrealistic as a Natami os as the development is too long. The delay it would take would only allow Hyperion to get a headstart.
I'm dreaming of switching on my NatAmi and seeing a os load up with NatAmi Workbench 1.2 or 1.3 just like it was 20 odd years ago.
I think the NatAmi has great potiental in the future to really shake things up a bit in the divided Amiga community. Especially if they end up selling thousands of them and not just a hundred or two.
So what does everyone think? :)
You forgot multiplechoose, because NatAmi, I think that it will runs OS3.9, OS4.x for Classic and maybe AROS too.
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You forgot multiplechoose, because NatAmi, I think that it will runs OS3.9, OS4.x for Classic and maybe AROS too.
Doesn't OS4.x for Classic require a PPC card?
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Doesn't OS4.x for Classic require a PPC card?
Yes, but I read that the NatAmi project will have CPUs modules to choose several CPUs, the 68060 and PowerPC xxx, but if now they are change the project, sorry I don't know.
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Hello, this is André from the Natami Team. I would like to try to answer some of the questions.
Yes, the very first batch of Natami MX boards just arrived at Thomas Hirsch's place. Now a testing period will follow to ensure the hardware design works as planned, heavily testing the new memory system. The next step after that will be getting the onboard PCI bus and PCI devices (IDE bus and CF slot, Gbit Ethernet, USB2.0) up and running.
There will still take quite some time until we can start selling boards to the public, but at least now there will be frequent updates as the slow and tedious part (PCB design phase) now is finished, providing that the PCB does work as intended, which we will see in the upcoming weeks.
Regarding the thread title, the main objective of the Natami Project has always been to provide a great system to run AmigaOS 3.x on. For this purpose we have gotten our hands on a couple of 3.1 licenses to bundle with the boards.
On the other hand, we have no Commodore Kickstart ROM:s to provide. We are currently discussing if it would be a good idea to provide the means (bootable floppy + null modem cable) to let the user easily dump the ROM from, for example, his Amiga 1200. For people who do not have an Amiga, the best solution will probably be to buy Amiga Forever and use the provided ROM images (we are aware of the encryption issue).
Making use of all of Natamis advanced features from within OS 3.x requires quite some work though. This development process will be resumed once the new boards are up and running. Some important points will be hacking a monitor file/graphics.library to make use of the new native screenmodes properly, or making a driver for the onboard Realtek ethernet chip, for example.
However, we do also look with excitement towards the rapid and impressive developments of the AROS-68k port. The prospect of compatibility with 1.x-era software as well as 3.x-era software that Toni Wilen has as his goal is very promising.
We do hope that AROS-68k will be a nice OS to run on the Natami in the future, and the chance of having a free, open source, and actively developed OS running as compared to hacking and patching OS3.x binaries in absurdum does indeed sound like a better tomorrow.
For most Natami users, there will probably be a hybrid stage when running OS3 patched with a lot of AROS code, like the AfA_OS initiative started by Bernd Roesch, is the most attractive choice. But AROS is advancing rapidly, and the 68k port might get out of the debug/compatibility testing stage and into the platform-specific optimisation stage pretty fast.
Regarding the price, it is not a good idea for anyone wanting to sell something to make a guess and then hope it will come true. Someone will always interpret that as a promise.
Yes, our production prices are pretty high. We have a very advanced FPGA compared to most of the similar projects, and this increases costs, and so does the many onboard components (USB2, LAN, proper legacy ports and headers) and the complicated six-layer PCB:s.
So the Natami will cost some more than the other Classic clones. However, if we would downgrade to a small cheap FPGA model and board design to reach the low prices some people are demanding, there would hardly be anything special about the Natami's performance compared to the alternatives. Personally, I think it is cool that you can go for a Minimig if you want something similar to an A500, a FPGAArcade if you want beefed up A1200-level hardware and other possibilities, and Natami if you want to go beyond that. All the options are there to choose from. Competition and plurality is good for the end user.
Anyway, we cannot know for sure yet what the final price for the MX boards will be. Good/bad deals on components and manufacturing means the price can fluctuate hundreds of euros up or down. And since we are not a big multinational company who can pour billions of dollars into a project to be able to say "This will be The Price! Make it so!", we can't tell you know. We will tell you when we know better.
He's right. The NatAmi will have a much larger FPGA than the MiniMig or even the Retro Replay board. It will probably cost around 750-850 Euros for the prototypes and only after the bugs are worked out will we have a Altera HardCopy version of the FPGA made (assuming that's still the most cost-effective technology for making fixed-functionality chips).
I won't speak for the price estimate, but I can say that a possible future HardCopy version will require some investor or financing to become reality. The MX boards will almost not generate any profit, and the little overhead there is will go to ensure being able to do warranty repairs and recouping some of the loads of money Thomas Hirsch has paid out of his own pockets to make this project a reality.
Also, the Natami030 and the Natami LX were the prototypes. The Natami MX will, if everything works out, be the first commercial board sold.
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Thanks for the information. Maybe we can start a bounty on amigabounty.net for the HardCopy version, when that gets closer to being a possibility...
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A couple of years ago, they were saying that the Natami would be shipped with AmigaOS 3, since then there have been several announcements on the forum about software which the publishers have given permission for it to be bundled with the Natami.
Recently there has been a lot of discussion about AROS which I did not read, so there might be a choice there.
The 68060 card is intended to be used for software development because of it's MMU.
The consumer board will use a softcore 68050 which is expected to be 2-3 times faster than a 66Mhz 68060, have 512MB ram as standard, and have a 1024 x 768 display without the need of a very expensive scan doubler.
As long as the Natami uses an FPGA there is the possibility of fixing any faults in the circuitry simply by reprogramming the FPGA, and when the design is finished you will be able to upgrade the Natami to use the planned superscalar 68070.
If you deduct the price of an 060 accelerator card which you would no longer need to buy for your Amiga, then the Natami will be very reasonably priced compared to any Amiga hardware.
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Thanks for the information. Maybe we can start a bounty on amigabounty.net for the HardCopy version, when that gets closer to being a possibility...
The community is not likely to be able to finance that. We are talking hundreds of thousands of euros to get ASIC production started. It requires big company guys with big money, I'm afraid. Or a benevolent billionaire.
The consumer board will use a softcore 68050 which is expected to be 2-3 times faster than a 66Mhz 68060, have 512MB ram as standard, and have a 1024 x 768 display without the need of a very expensive scan doubler.
Yes, a scan doubler is built into the system, and there will also be a possibility to connect 15KHz screens if you want to go oldschool. However, the max res we can promise will work for now is 1280x1024, not only 1024x768. We will see what the limits of the new board are soon, and if we can go further than this. But full-HD might not be possible with the current generation of Natami hardware.
The 060 CPU card and the N050 softcore uses the very same RAM. The user will have the option to purchase a Natami with a 060 CPU card if he wants to.
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The community is not likely to be able to finance that. We are talking hundreds of thousands of euros to get ASIC production started. It requires big company guys with big money, I'm afraid. Or a benevolent billionaire.
Didn't something like this happen the firts time Project Lorraine was planned? :D
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He's right. The NatAmi will have a much larger FPGA than the MiniMig or even the Retro Replay board. It will probably cost around 750-850 Euros for the prototypes and only after the bugs are worked out will we have a Altera HardCopy version of the FPGA made (assuming that's still the most cost-effective technology for making fixed-functionality chips).
There are alternatives with probably lower setup costs than Altera Hardcopy: eASIC (http://www.easic.com/) and ViASIC (http://viasic.com/).
greets,
Staf.
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Didn't something like this happen the firts time Project Lorraine was planned? :D
No, those were dentists :D
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Whoa! Long live 68K!
You know, the retro/classic game stuff you can but in department stores these days. What if you could do that with an Amiga? But a lot better like this project, and sell them for like 300.00, pre-load them up with a bunch of games.
You could walk into a Kmart or Target at X-mas time and see this box there, "It's the 80s Commodore Amiga all over again, but way better dude!"
I would buy 2!
Well, back to reality, really hope this comes to fruition.
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That leaves 298.00 left to sell!
Whoa! Long live 68K!
You know, the retro/classic game stuff you can but in department stores these days. What if you could do that with an Amiga? But a lot better like this project, and sell them for like 300.00, pre-load them up with a bunch of games.
You could walk into a Kmart or Target at X-mas time and see this box there, "It's the 80s Commodore Amiga all over again, but way better dude!"
I would buy 2!
Well, back to reality, really hope this comes to fruition.
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I think the best OS for Natami would be AmigaOS3.9 + Boing Bags 1, 2, 3, 4, ........ Plus any needed software patches from the Natami team to provide support for their SuperAGA extension and higher quality audio.
Natami is a very interesting idea that should have happened 15 years ago, but couldn't have because the tech (needed large, relatively cheap FPGA's) was not available then.
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Whoa! Long live 68K!
You know, the retro/classic game stuff you can but in department stores these days. What if you could do that with an Amiga? But a lot better like this project, and sell them for like 300.00, pre-load them up with a bunch of games.
300, whether pounds, dollars or euros, would be way too high to get something like this into department stores unfortunately. 300 is out of impulse buy or nostalgia range for too many people to be worthwhile to stock for a mainstream store.
And if someone wanted to do that, they'd be better off starting with the Minimig design, since most Amiga games will run on an A500 config anyway, and it'd be much cheaper to manufacture....
I'm looking forward to the Natami, but it's still destined to be very much a product mainly for our community.
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the dedicated os for natami will be certailnly aros68k at some point where it will be optimized enough. here you have few screenshots of current version.
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=55226&highlight=kickstart+replacement&page=5
not that i care to vote, like in this x1k downfall thread, since it is not for me to tell.
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No, those were dentists :D
Didn't those dentist also lose just about all their investment which is how C= came to own the Amiga?
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Wouldn't it be advantageous to use an OS that other "Amigas" use so software availability would not be such a huge issue?
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Wouldn't it be advantageous to use an OS that other "Amigas" use so software availability would not be such a huge issue?
Yes, this is why we are supporting AmigaOS 3.x and AROS-68k. OS3.x runs most 68k Amiga software and AROS-68k has the potential to run ALL 68k Amiga software (even old 1.x stuff with quirks and hacks) natively without any emulation, unlike the closed source PPC operating systems AmigaOS4 and MorphOS.
Most, if not all, open source Amiga software currently available for AROS-x86 and AROS-ppc can be recompiled for AROS-68k.
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If that is true, ...
Yes it is true.
All Natamis to date have used a real 68060. All games and programs in the video were running on a real 68060.
But most production Natamis will feature an FPGA softcore CPU which will cost quite a lot less than those 100Mhz 060s.
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Natami is a never ending project anyway. There will always be something blocking the release of the consumer version.
I am glad that Piru has stated something I have felt for a long while now. I have tried to be optimistic, but I have serious doubts as to a viable release of natami hardware.
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I voted pancakes because there was no Windows XP or Mac OS10 option.
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I voted 3.x.
3.9 will be my system of choice, since NatAmi is sufficiently powerful for it.
Still, I will surely have a separate CF for AROS.
@Miked
Really, you should at least take some time to look around for facts before writing such stuff ;)
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I voted AROS. It has the best potential for future development. But it's nice to have the AmigaDOS 3.x option as well.
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I surprised myself and voted WB 4 - Classic..
Still not sure what I was thinking, but I'll be asking myself some very pointed questions about it!! ;-)
Seriously, I don't know enough about 4.x to know, but if it will/can work (on something that will never be released to the public, yes Piru, we heard you..), it might make a good match.. The very fact that they released a 4.x for Classic makes me think it's possible..
Realistically, I think 3.x will be more likely, with AROS for the long term...
But I could be wrong.. I thought I was once, but I was mistaken..
desiv
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OS for Natami? There seem to be a few choices here. Commodore based Workbench; ie a heavily patched 3.1. Or perhaps Hyperion based OS3.9 also heavily patched. Or Aros 68K (would have to be completely cleaned up and finished). Realistically, either 3.1 or 3.9 are the best choices out of the gate unless a large effort is being made on a Natami tuned Aros 68K that I do not know about.