Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga community support ideas => Topic started by: Cammy on January 31, 2011, 12:39:30 AM
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Hello everyone. Many of the remaining Amiga programmers and other creative people are in need of a new Amiga project development forum so we can work on new software, games and hardware for all Amiga systems and keep the scene alive.
We only need one person who can program PHP to help us set up the forum. We have hosting already, we just need a forum that has no or minimal CSS and is compatible and renders properly with IBrowse and AWeb.
Please help us, you will finally see more Amiga development if we have a new forum for it.
Using an existing forum isn't an option and has been discussed countless times in the past. Please try to understand, this topic isn't a debate, just a call for help.
Thank you.
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But we already have UtilityBase...so why reinvent the wheel, is there something amiss with UtilityBase? Seems like it would just further divide the Amiga community.
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Ooh, looking forward to this.
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But we already have UtilityBase...so why reinvent the wheel, is there something amiss with UtilityBase? Seems like it would just further divide the Amiga community.
WTH??
I google for Amiga UtilityBase, it comes up with the main site.
I click it, and my Avast Antivirus starts screaming about some javascript malware?????
:angry:
desiv
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I assume that there is absolutely no "off-the-shelf" forum software that will work appropriately? (even some older version?)
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We reinvent the wheel when the old wheel gets too rusty to use anymore.
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Like I already said, this isn't up for debate, we just need help with this. You're welcome to join the forum when it's ready, and see how much more gets done there than what gets done on UtilityBase or any other Amiga forum.
I'm not trying to split the community apart, there's nothing to be afraid of. Can you just trust me that this will be a good thing for anyone still using Amiga systems.
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Please stay on topic. Start another it you must about issues with Utilitybase.
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@Cammy, PM sent :)
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We reinvent the wheel when the old wheel gets too rusty to use anymore.
The rusty wheel is clearly ibrowse and aweb!
I have offered several times to help in the past, even started a forum that was 80% amiga browser friendly and was prepared to fix up the rest of the way to bring it to a usable state.
You mostly ignored me or gave vague answers.
Good luck with that!
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UtilityBase seems to be a nice cross Amiga platform developer site
I'm glad you're happy with it. I'm sure many others are as well.
Not saying it's not a great site. I just mentioned the warning, and said I'd personally prefer a site more optimized for Classic Amiga browsers.
The Internet is all about choice.. :-)
As for the original topic, I look forward to seeing what transpires...
desiv
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Is there a top-level domain yet for the new dev forum?
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The rusty wheel is clearly ibrowse and aweb!
I have offered several times to help in the past, even started a forum that was 80% amiga browser friendly and was prepared to fix up the rest of the way to bring it to a usable state.
You mostly ignored me or gave vague answers.
Good luck with that!
I never ignored you, I was still hoping you wanted to help us out but it's very hard to talk to you. I can never tell if you're angry with me or not, like at the moment it seems like you are.
Does this mean you no longer want to help out? I'm on IRC every day if you ever want to clear something up with me, I don't think there was any need to join in against me here.
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I am amazed that anyone might think that a site which isn't monitored and/or has hosting which has Javascript exploits is in any way something which might be considered acceptable (I'm referring to UtilityBase here).
That said, even though you have hosting arrangements already, I'd be happy to volunteer proper shell accounts on secure and always up to date servers, cvs hosting, and even m68k virtual machine hosting (which I'm already in the process of setting up for m68k GNU/Linux and NetBSD development).
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Wow, thank you, johnklos. I think we might have to take you up on your offer for hosting those services for us, I don't know if our previous offer for hosting the forum exists any more though, so we may need hosting for that too.
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I never ignored you, I was still hoping you wanted to help us out but it's very hard to talk to you. I can never tell if you're angry with me or not, like at the moment it seems like you are.
Does this mean you no longer want to help out? I'm on IRC every day if you ever want to clear something up with me, I don't think there was any need to join in against me here.
Im not against you.(nor do i think anyone here is) nor have i ever been angry with you.
I am still willing to help! IRC is not suitable for me right now (PC problems) Email is always welcome, or MSN for live chat (add me, msn addy is my email which i think you have)
Busy the next 3 weeks, going on holiday to Gold Coast :D I can get stuck into it when i get back!
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Well, if you refuse to explain why this new site is needed and what is wrong with UtilityBase, then I refuse to help with this project. Because I see it as splittism of the Amiga community.
Is the problem then that AWeb has issues with UtilityBase? This would indeed be a valid reason, I will confirm whether there is an issue.
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We really only need one person with the capacity to understand the bigger picture to help us out. I'm sorry but I don't think anything I say could persuade you to open your mind enough to accept that we need change.
While all the forums have their own problems, I won't pick on them. What I will ask you is how productive do you think they have been? How successful is the Amiga software market at the moment? Which forum is dedicated to fixing this problem and creating a little organisation and unity, listening to the real Amiga users and adapting to their needs? Where can we go to discuss new ideas without the fear of being shot down by negative thinking, hurtful people who only want to stop anyone else from succeeding where perhaps they failed or didn't have the courage to try in the first place? Where is the Amiga E forum? Where is the forum where programmers can easily request music for their games and get responses from the most suitable musicians? Where do we discuss character development and graphic design for these games? Where are the forum administrators that actually use Amigas and can sympathize with the productive users and filter out the trouble makers? Where do we work together on projects like new legal Workbench distributions and package management?
You might see this move as "splittism" but I see it as a new hope. You must understand how many people have biases towards and against various Amiga forums. A new forum, a fresh start with a real purpose could be our best shot of getting something done for once. If we don't try anything, the Amiga scene will continue to stagnate.
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We really only need one person with the capacity to understand the bigger picture to help us out. I'm sorry but I don't think anything I say could persuade you to open your mind enough to accept that we need change.
While all the forums have their own problems, I won't pick on them. What I will ask you is how productive do you think they have been? How successful is the Amiga software market at the moment? Which forum is dedicated to fixing this problem and creating a little organisation and unity, listening to the real Amiga users and adapting to their needs? Where can we go to discuss new ideas without the fear of being shot down by negative thinking, hurtful people who only want to stop anyone else from succeeding where perhaps they failed or didn't have the courage to try in the first place? Where is the Amiga E forum? Where is the forum where programmers can easily request music for their games and get responses from the most suitable musicians? Where do we discuss character development and graphic design for these games? Where are the forum administrators that actually use Amigas and can sympathize with the productive users and filter out the trouble makers? Where do we work together on projects like new legal Workbench distributions and package management?
You might see this move as "splittism" but I see it as a new hope. You must understand how many people have biases towards and against various Amiga forums. A new forum, a fresh start with a real purpose could be our best shot of getting something done for once. If we don't try anything, the Amiga scene will continue to stagnate.
I thought this (AO) was that forum already? But maybe you see this huge Amiga fanbase/infrastructure/business where none actually exists.
Maybe you should take over moobunny - since it's an anarchy there's nothing stopping somebody from planting their flag and taking over the place, if there's really that much of a coordinated interest. And it would give the regulars a break from the same-old-same-old.
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Thanks for your helpful contribution, keep up the good work.
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I thought this (AO) was that forum already? But maybe you see this huge Amiga fanbase/infrastructure/business where none actually exists.
Maybe you should take over moobunny - since it's an anarchy there's nothing stopping somebody from planting their flag and taking over the place, if there's really that much of a coordinated interest. And it would give the regulars a break from the same-old-same-old.
I think the point is that a friendly dev-centered forum is needed -- not a friendly general forum, and not an unfriendly dev-centered forum.
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I wish you good luck Cammy & hope you succeed, I reckon it would be nice to have such a forum, who knows if you need someone to bug test or optimise some code I've got plenty of time on my hands... :)
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Thanks for your helpful contribution, keep up the good work.
Why not have somebody set up a telnet BBS...? Or create forums on one of the existing ones? Then no web browsers need be involved. No PHP coding. And maybe people could even use offline mail readers like Thor... great BBS/telnet clients like Term and AmTelnet... it'd be like 1993 all over again.
C-Net, Tempest, Xenolink, DLG, all those other great historical Amiga BBSes..., or heck, just use Waffle. We have telser.device with a free key, why not?
I understand the difficulty of getting an Amiga onto a static IP... but there could always be a dynamic DNS client involved.
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I'm sorry but although BBSs are cool, it's not really what we need. We'd like a forum that works well in regular modern browsers but also renders fine in Amiga browsers, like AmigaWorld or Amiga.org through the proxy. We intend on it being a very serious, friendly and helpful development-only forum. The forum will cater to all Amiga flavours, be they 68k/OS3, OS4, MorphOS, Aros, Natami or MiniMig. We already have a mailing list of programmers who will be invited to join the forum once it starts, and several of us already have projects underway that we're desperate to start discussing with other Amiga developers, away from any public chat forum where threads go off-topic and devolve into nothing. We will keep an eye on all the projects and assign the right people to the right job, helping under-appreciated ideas get the attention they deserve.
We may be passionate about the Amiga and hopeful that we can build a more organised and informed community while helping to generate more of a market for Amiga software through digital distribution, but we're not deluded. No one plans on competing with any other OS or games system, we simply want to provide our own kind with the privileges that users of other systems enjoy.
We want to pull ourselves out of this state of suspended animation and get on with things. Think of current Amiga sites as like a pub or a social club where you can discuss things with your mates and check up and comment on the latest news and gossip. Our forum would be more like a college where we can learn and work together away from the speculation, gossip and fighting.
People complain that too much is announced and not enough delivered. A lot of the time it's because people with these ideas need to tell somebody about it for some positive encouragement, but nearly all they ever receive on these forums is negative criticism, which dampens their spirits so much they abandon the project and nothing ever comes of it. A lot of creative people are sensitive and emotional, and they would rather not post on a forum ever again if they only expect to have their ideas shot down.
No one who supports the Amiga scene would be hurt by the creation of this forum. What the community lacks is organisation and leadership. It's time to work together as a team and stop fighting amongst ourselves. With this forum we hope to provide all creative Amiga people the perfect place to share their ideas with other like-minded, helpful people and give them the encouragement they need to complete these projects in cooperation.
No one is forced to leave the forums they already frequent just to join one new forum. We have bookmarks and password managers to help us these days, even in the old Amiga browsers.
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I'm sorry but although BBSs are cool, it's not really what we need. We'd like a forum that works well in regular modern browsers but also renders fine in Amiga browsers, like AmigaWorld or Amiga.org through the proxy.
If you were to use vbulletin, you're welcome to a copy of the proxy code. It is self-contained should be able to run from a subdomain without any issues. There are some limitations I never got around to fixing, one of which was file uploading.
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Something like your proxy wouldn't be needed, just a plain HTML 4.0 only theme.
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one of which was file uploading.
File uploading works on a BBS :D
/me readies his Zmodem
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Where can we go to discuss new ideas without the fear of being shot down by negative thinking, hurtful people who only want to stop anyone else from succeeding where perhaps they failed or didn't have the courage to try in the first place? Where is the Amiga E forum? Where is the forum where programmers can easily request music for their games and get responses from the most suitable musicians? Where do we discuss character development and graphic design for these games? Where are the forum administrators that actually use Amigas and can sympathize with the productive users and filter out the trouble makers?
Since you put it like that...
Hell yeah! It sounds like a great idea! I bet even Minuous could get onboard with that!
Cammy FTW!
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splittism?
Is someone taking English lessons from Sarah Palin?
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I applaud this idea, good initiative.:)
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>Where can we go to discuss new ideas without the fear of being shot down by negative thinking, hurtful people who only want to stop anyone else from succeeding where perhaps they failed or didn't have the courage to try in the first place?
Is this thread http://utilitybase.com/forum/index.php?action=vthread&forum=19&topic=2137 what all the fuss is about!? Seems you got given quite a bit of help on the technical issues. Someone mentioned your code was a bit messy and then someone else started flaming him. Hardly a reason to go off and make one's own site, IMHO. I've been treated much worse on various forums in the past.
BTW I should point out that the things you are trying to do are easily done under OS3.5, is there some good reason for anyone to still be using underpowered OS3.1?!
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Is this thread what all the fuss is about!? ...
Why go searching for a reason for this non-existent "fuss"? I never mentioned having a problem with UtilityBase.
I prefer to write software that is usable for various Amiga systems, including 3.0/3.1. I've seen your posts in the past insisting on people to use 3.5/3.9 but many people still use 3.0/3.1 on their lower-end Amigas, which is what I was aiming that particular application at.
It seems that you're determined to go against this idea, which is a shame since you are one of the few programmers left in the Amiga scene. It's just sad that you don't want to be part of a bigger, better team. I could give you a LOT of reasons why UtilityBase is unsuitable, outdated, unmaintained, neglected and underused, but for most of us it's very obvious and I feel explaining to someone who has already made up their mind would be in vain.
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BTW I should point out that the things you are trying to do are easily done under OS3.5, is there some good reason for anyone to still be using underpowered OS3.1?!
maybe because OS 3.5 is not owned by all of us?
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>?
Is this thread http://utilitybase.com/forum/index.php?action=vthread&forum=19&topic=2137 what all the fuss is about!? Seems you got given quite a bit of help on the technical issues.
Yeah, I agree-it was helpful advice.
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@Cammy
On the corresponding EAB thread, the suggestion came up that an NNTP server like UseNet could be used on any Amiga. The web browsers may be behind the times but there are decent NNTP readers on the Aminet. For example, NewsCoaster (http://aminet.net/package/comm/news/newscoaster).
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Can the moderators please lock this thread before it gets completely out of hand. Now with people digging up dirt on me and throwing around wild accusations this is only going to give those spiteful people on moobunny and other circles more crap to gossip about, and I really don't want to have to deal with another wave of hatred from this community for only trying to help.
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@ Cammy
Don't worry about what some dunderheids here have to say, you've been here long enough to know that certain folk are just right dickheads at times. Just ignore the ones that are only trying to wind you up I've no idea what their problem is but I can guess.
Don't let these wahoos put you off from posting or starting threads here, the great work you do and have done for the Amiga community and the enthusiasm that you have for all things Amiga is very much appreciated by more folk here than I think you realise.
So just ignore the tubes who are trying to wind you up and keep on posting. DON"T let any bugger here put you off from doing so, at the end of the day if there only here to take the piss when someone like you tries their best to do something useful then don't even give them the time of day by responding to them.
@ THE A-HOLES
Yes you know who you are, stop trying to diss someone like Cammy who is genuinely trying to do something positive for those of us who still actually use our Amigas in a useful way.
I've kept this response as nice and polite as I possibly could but if you really want to try your luck then try me...
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Someone want to make a new forum and some people are out of control... at these days people is more "fan" of a forum than the amiga itself.
@cammy
If you dont want troubles make your own private forum with your friends/contacs/whatever.
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Don't let the haters get you down, Cammy. As a dabbler hoping to get into a little more serious Amiga programming on low-end systems, this would be a great resource, and I hope to see it come into being :)
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I would love such a forum as I am just putting the finishing touches to my new A3000 Warpengine 040/40 with Picasso IV graphics card which will be used as my main development workstation for learning 68k assembly fifteen years after giving up trying.
I wish you all the best and if I can help just shout!
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Where can we go to discuss new ideas without the fear of being shot down by negative thinking, hurtful people who only want to stop anyone else from succeeding where perhaps they failed or didn't have the courage to try in the first place?
Is this thread http://utilitybase.com/forum/index.php?action=vthread&forum=19&topic=2137 what all the fuss is about!?
No Minuous it is not.
Cammy has been trying to get her forum going since long before that thread ever existed.
I know for a fact that Cammy's quote is referring to many messages written by many ppl on many forums, including Amiga.org.
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FWIW, I've looked at UtilityBase now and again, but it's messy and hard to use. I can perfectly well understand wanting some other forum.
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I don't know if it helps but this site:
http://os4coding.net/
...despite it's name they are considering opening the site to all Amiga platforms. Maybe a collaboration with them would be more productive than starting something from scratch.
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Did this new Amiga dev forum ever get off the ground?
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Nope. Pity, as I'd still definitely be interested in it...
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Nope. Pity, as I'd still definitely be interested in it...
Actually, we had virtually completed a site 6 years ago with similar intent.
Any web devs available for an Amiga related project? (http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=15867&forum=2)
It was completely IBrowse/AWeb friendly, since the intent was to be used by all. Developers could manage their own projects, solicit beta testers, choose what parts would be visible to the public vs private, etc. etc.
Drupal proved to be a worthy CMS even back then.
#6
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Huh, interesting. It'd be nice if one of these got off the ground. I want to get into Amiga development, and it'd be great to have a place to do it...
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I've written a simple forum in C# that is compatible with classic Amiga browsers.
It's got most of the basic features needed and is fully functional. It outputs pure html and should render properly on any browser.
I'm not sure if Cammy is still interested in doing this, so maybe someone else may find this to be a good starting point for their project.
Download the code here:
http://steve.odyfamily.com/downloads/raforums.zip