Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: killer on January 28, 2011, 12:50:19 PM
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Last night i was wondering why there is no new hardware for morph os, os4 has the sam440, the new460ex and when available the new x-1000 (plus the old amiga one and micro).. yes i know there are the mac but all this hardware is old and used without any sort of warranty..
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The userbase is probably even smaller than OS4, so no one dares investing in it. But MorphOS could probably be ported to the existing new hardware if the developers wanted to.
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yes i know there are the mac but all this hardware is old and used without any sort of warranty..
But you can buy 4 or 5 Apple systems for the price of just one of those low-production systems!
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all this hardware is old and used without any sort of warranty..
Who cares if it is dirt cheap? One fails, you buy another. On the other hand, this hardware is of high quality and risk of failure is low.
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There is quite good reason: there is no reasonably priced new hardware. On the other hand Macs have one good advantage: it has got the name ;-)
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Last night i was wondering why there is no new hardware for morph os, os4 has the sam440, the new460ex and when available the new x-1000
Because the hardware that MorphOS is available for is way, way faster, way, way cheaper than the ones you mentioned. MorphOS runs on mainstream PPC HW that is proven and very easy to get a hold of.
The Sam/X1000 route is nothing but pointless madness.
yes i know there are the mac but all this hardware is old and used without any sort of warranty..
That old hardware is still much faster than the HW you mentioned above, you can have it repaired by any Apple dealer, or if you don't bother with that, you can easily buy several spare machines and still be *way* under the cost for one single, low performing Sam. There really is no problem!
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I was waiting for this thread to be started.
The main reason I would expect would be who needs new hardware. I doubt anyone in the Morphos wants top pay the prices of the sam when we have more powerful second hand, better designed cheap hardware in lost of quantity.
Come on them supply the figures that show how many copies of OS4 have been sold and how many MorphOS ?
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The MacMini is an awseome piece of kit, small , silent , well designed. I was sceptical at first. But people who refuse you Mac hardware are blined by the OS. Mac Os sucks balls, well I really don't like it anyway, but your only using the hardware. despite what you think of apple, and i won't buy apple products, they do generally make good looking, robust hardware.
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I see a lot of folk mentioning cheap Macs here, I don't call the 350 quid I paid a few months ago for this old iMacG5 cheap and you'll very rarely see one going for much less on ebay. So where do you all buy these cheap Macs ???
Im also led to believe that MorphOS can't even be used on the G5 (something to do with the GFX Card I think) which is a shame as I reckon anything must be better than Mac OSX 10.5 ... :(
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Last night i was wondering why there is no new hardware for morph os, os4 has the sam440, the new460ex and when available the new x-1000 (plus the old amiga one and micro).. yes i know there are the mac but all this hardware is old and used without any sort of warranty..
My 1.25Ghz eMac cost me $30. I could buy 30 spare computers at this price and still have spent less than a Sam460.
BTW, I do not bad mouth Acube. They seem to be a real company with real product and real warranty, something that cannot be said of some previous "Amiga" hardware vendors. I simply have no use or desire for their product.
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I see a lot of folk mentioning cheap Macs here, I don't call the 350 quid I paid a few months ago for this old iMacG5 cheap and you'll very rarely see one going for much less on ebay. So where do you all buy these cheap Macs ???
The Thunderbird Swap Shop (http://www.floridaswapshop.com/swap.html)is where I got mine, paid $30 for a 1.25Ghz eMac. I eventually plan on getting a top end G4 Power Mac or possibly a top end G5 Power Mac. From research the G4 will run me $100-$150 max, the G5 would be $200-$350 max. Some people have an inflated view of what their computers are worth, like idiots on Craigslist asking $400 for an eMac. You just have to filter those idiots out and find the real sellers.
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Im also led to believe that MorphOS can't even be used on the G5 (something to do with the GFX Card I think)
MorphOS doesn't yet support PowerMac G5. The currently supported hardware is listed here: http://www.morphos-team.net/hardware.html
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MorphOS doesn't yet support PowerMac G5. The currently supported hardware is listed here: http://www.morphos-team.net/hardware.html
Thanks anyway Piru, You pointed me to that link before when I asked about the G4 I bought just before the G5 and the GFX card in my G4 isn't supported either... :(
(I must be buying the wrong type of iMacs...)
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Mac are all used and out of production and i don't think apple repeairs them at low price.. btw if you are happy to look for used refurbished hw then you are welcome..
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Last night i was wondering why there is no new hardware for morph os, os4 has the sam440, the new460ex and when available the new x-1000 (plus the old amiga one and micro).. yes i know there are the mac but all this hardware is old and used without any sort of warranty..
Folks in butterfly country usually are able to do some basic economic calculation. If there was sustainable demand there would be a product. Seems like currently there is no sustainable demand.
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Folks in butterfly country usually are able to do some basic economic calculation. If there was sustainable demand there would be a product. Seems like currently there is no sustainable demand.
ok i understood, so the problem is the user base..
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(I must be buying the wrong type of iMacs...)
I think all iMacs are wrong if you want to run MorphOS.
You need an eMac. http://shop.ebay.co.uk/i.html?_nkw=emac+1.25&_sacat=0&_odkw=emac+1.33&_osacat=0&_trksid=p3286.c0.m270.l1313
Even those are cheap over in the UK.
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ok i understood, so the problem is the user base..
The user base might not see it as such a problem, I'm quite happy with my MorphOS hardware, try to wrap your head around that. What hardware are you using?
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ok i understood, so the problem is the user base..
Actually, there is no "problem" that I can see. Feel free to keep inventing them, though.
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I think all iMacs are wrong if you want to run MorphOS.
You need an eMac. http://shop.ebay.co.uk/i.html?_nkw=emac+1.25&_sacat=0&_odkw=emac+1.33&_osacat=0&_trksid=p3286.c0.m270.l1313
Even those are cheap over in the UK.
Crap... those are cheap... :eek:
I've just spent well over £400 on ebay this week buying some spare VIC20s & C64s, I could have bought a bucket load of them Macs for that...
Methinks I'm gonna have to build a bigger house... :)
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Actually, there is no "problem" that I can see. Feel free to keep inventing them, though.
no i am not inventing nothing, i am considering the actual amiga situation.. if there is no real problem why no new hardware for morph os.. why a user have to look for used and old hardware?.. why there isn't a company like Acube but for morph os instead of amiga os?
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user have to look for used and old hardware?
That said hardware is better and cheaper and with better parts/repair support than anything available as new. Hardly a problem I'd say.
Of course there are some that just have to have new HW. You could always buy EFIKA, but IMO you're better off with a Mac: Faster CPU, more memory.
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no i am not inventing nothing, i am considering the actual amiga situation.. if there is no real problem why no new hardware for morph os.. why a user have to look for used and old hardware?.. why there isn't a company like Acube but for morph os instead of amiga os?
There was one years ago, the boards I bought from them in 2003 and 2005 are still working today, that does not make me any less happy about the used apple hardware I've picked up since then. It's just a more practical approach now. That your limited imagination is unable to deal with that is just something you will have to live with.
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My MacMini silent upgrade cost me £150 off ebay. Took me a while to get one that didnt go for over £200. It wasn't acutally advertised as the silent upgrade, sellers mistake. Was well chuffed when i got it.
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lets be honest Hyperion sre determined to keep it on new expensive hardware because of deals they have made, its not a piracy issue, its a greed issue at the expense of the AOS4 faithful. They could have switched to other Hardware ages ago.
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I have a MorphOS 2.7 license for my eMac, a computer that cost me $100 last year off Craig's List. I probably could have found an eMac cheaper or even for free had I been more patient, but this one was in the neighborhood. Then I paid for the MorphOS license, so that must be factored into the system cost just as it is with the Sam prices.
So the old Mac was relatively inexpensive and MorphOS performs very well on this hardware. But now I'm worried that the integrated CRT's display is looking fuzzy and there are capacitors on the logicboard that look like they may be bulging. I have had capacitor problems with my Amiga 1200 and Amiga 4000 and also my Mac SE/30, and I have spent big bucks for repairs because of sentimental attachments to those computers. The 1200 got another motherboard from AmigaKit. The 4000 got another motherboard that also turned out to have problems, and that one was sent to France for repair.
Hardware doesn't last forever. But I am certainly not sentimental about this eMac, and I will not repair it if it fails. It's main value to me is the MorphOS license, so hopefully there is a mechanism for transfering that license to replacement hardware if the eMac gives up the ghost.
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There is, I beleive, and I know a lot of people are vocal on this, you have to send the broken hardware to the dev team, and then they will transfer the licence for you to new hardware. I am hoping in the future theey can think of a better way of doing this. There must be a wake of revoking a liscence through the net and then sending out a new one
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Hardware doesn't last forever. But I am certainly not sentimental about this eMac, and I will not repair it if it fails. It's main value to me is the MorphOS license, so hopefully there is a mechanism for transfering that license to replacement hardware if the eMac gives up the ghost.
You can contact the MorphOS Team for the transfer if the HW dies.
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What HW are MorphOS supposed to run on, in the future, when applications requires more speed/memory etc. than available on the old Mac hardware?
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I got an 800mhz G4 powerMac for free from work that someone was going to throw out!.
I currently have the MorphOS 2.7 demo on it. I'm still contemplating registering it. Not sure yet.
Free -vs- $1000+ for a hobby OS was a no brainer for me.
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But now I'm worried that the integrated CRT's display is looking fuzzy and there are capacitors on the logicboard that look like they may be bulging.
How good are you with repairs? I have a good spare CRT I'm looking to dump. Cap kits are cheap on eBay.
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What HW are MorphOS supposed to run on, in the future, when applications requires more speed/memory etc. than available on the old Mac hardware?
I think if you look at the last of the line PPC Macs there are still pretty tasty for anything Amiga related. even close to the the specs of the X1000
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I think if you look at the last of the line PPC Macs there are still pretty tasty for anything Amiga related. even close to the the specs of the X1000
I think the high end G5's will outperform the X1000 in many (most?) benchmarks.
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they have lots of new hardware to port to if they wish:
- Sam440
- Sam460
& X1000 when it arrives
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Which is what I was getting at. We still have a path to and possibly above the lastest and greatest for such a fraction of the cost its silly.
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they have lots of new hardware to port to if they wish:
- Sam440
- Sam460
& X1000 when it arrives
Pretty sure this has been disccussed a lot and there is no need/want to port to this hardware. Too expensive and in every case faster Mac hardware still to be done.
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all this hardware is old and used without any sort of warranty..
Who cares if it is dirt cheap? One fails, you buy another. On the other hand, this hardware is of high quality and risk of failure is low.
Lets see what happens when the PA6T has to be replaced.
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why there isn't a company like Acube but for morph os instead of amiga os?
Because designing and building new desktop HW for a dead architecture (PPC) in the quantities of 100-200 units is a bad idea, especially if it's worse off than what's already available performance and spec wise, and at 10 times (or more) the cost?
The PPC Macs that MorphOS already supports (or might support in a relatively close future) represents how far the PPC *ever went* on the consumer desktop market. That's the edge, and the end of line. And now when the PPC is gradually fading into history, nothing new will beat those Macs still here.
Would be a far better idea for MorphOS to begin the migration process to ARM, IMHO! ;)
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I think if you look at the last of the line PPC Macs there are still pretty tasty for anything Amiga related. even close to the the specs of the X1000
Yes but in the future - the hardware will not be capable of doing task, which then is considered as ordinary tasks. So someday MorphOS has to get on faster hardware - there is now way around this.
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Pretty sure this has been disccussed a lot and there is no need/want to port to this hardware. Too expensive and in every case faster Mac hardware still to be done.
ahh yes but for how long JJ ? old macs will only start drying up and the next Sam boards and X2000 etc will only get quicker...besides for everyday computing who gives a crap about the fastest 5+ Ghz machine really
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BTW, I do not bad mouth Acube. They seem to be a real company with real product and real warranty, something that cannot be said of some previous "Amiga" hardware vendors. I simply have no use or desire for their product.
Ditto, ACube is one of the few "Amiga" supporting companies I can honestly recommend to others as they are dependable and trust worthy. I was considering buying a 460 for a project, but that project got preempted.
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As none of the "OS4" boards can be bought without a OS4 licence and considering the history between Hyperion and the Morphos developers why would they consider port to those boards and increasing sales of the persons company who has done everything he can to destroy Morphos's reputation?
Personally I wouldn't give Hyperion the steam of my p*ss let alone any more money.
That and I picked up a 1.2gig G4 tower for free that was been used as a door stop at a client office :D
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ahh yes but for how long JJ ? old macs will only start drying up and the next Sam boards and X2000 etc will only get quicker...besides for everyday computing who gives a crap about the fastest 5+ Ghz machine really
That makes an awful lot of assumptions about a lot of things, for instance that the huge costs in developing even "mid range" performance hardware with an exotic PPC such as the one in the PA6T for starters. It assumes also that the X1000/460 ever sells enough to recoup those costs or that PPCs that are in any way useful to the desktop are still available, consider that the PA6T being used now is basically warehouse stock that will never be replaced.
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How good are you with repairs? I have a good spare CRT I'm looking to dump. Cap kits are cheap on eBay.
Who want's to use computer with a CRT display, for daily use?
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The MacMini is an awseome piece of kit, small , silent , well designed. I was sceptical at first. But people who refuse you Mac hardware are blined by the OS. Mac Os sucks balls, well I really don't like it anyway, but your only using the hardware. despite what you think of apple, and i won't buy apple products, they do generally make good looking, robust hardware.
Well, and on all those old great PwrPC macs there is no longer any support for MacOS. Macs usually are very well made. I'm glad they're porting over to the G5s, as you can pick them up with dual 1.6-2.0Ghz macpros for around 300 bucks. That is a crapton of computing for most everything (plus MorphOS).
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That makes an awful lot of assumptions about a lot of things, for instance that the huge costs in developing even "mid range" performance hardware with an exotic PPC such as the one in the PA6T for starters. It assumes also that the X1000/460 ever sells enough to recoup those costs or that PPCs that are in any way useful to the desktop are still available, consider that the PA6T being used now is basically warehouse stock that will never be replaced.
Rogue on aw.net has stated that they have already choosen a CPU (or a CPU family) which will be used in the X1000's successor, if this option would not have been available they probably wouldn't have chosen to support the X1000 project. The 460 has been made thanks to the good enough sales of the 440 (as mentioned by m3x), at least this is an indicator that there are possibilities that the 460 will sell enough, too.
Varthall
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That makes an awful lot of assumptions about a lot of things, for instance that the huge costs in developing even "mid range" performance hardware with an exotic PPC such as the one in the PA6T for starters. It assumes also that the X1000/460 ever sells enough to recoup those costs or that PPCs that are in any way useful to the desktop are still available, consider that the PA6T being used now is basically warehouse stock that will never be replaced.
well considering 5 years ago according to many the PPC market was dead but here we are now with new PPC boards available for AmigaOS. I'll eventually upgade my Sam440 to a new board by either ACube or A-Eon and that opens up the used market for older PPC boards which is a great thing indeed bringing prices down for those that want to get into the scene again.
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That and I picked up a 1.2gig G4 tower for free that was been used as a door stop at a client office :D
Lucky!
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I think the high end G5's will outperform the X1000 in many (most?) benchmarks.
Yes, in the Power consumption at most.
In noise generation as well.
In dust collection benchmarks if you don't clean it often.
I see a lot of old mac scrap loving guys. You assume that the old cheap machine is good for you, but for me a new less power consuming machine like AmigaOne X1000 and Sam460 are better purchases, even if more expensive than an old G5 Mac.
In two years of usage time, I will pay less for my new AmigaOne hardware, than you for your old Mac, if I calculate the electricity bills in the equations. And I do.
If someone else pays your electricity bills, then buying old power un-efficient Macs with CRT is good. Too bad I have to pay my bills by myself, so I can not afford to have old G5 Mac or CRT machine. Will go for the AmigaOne though.
Of course my equations will not work for you because:
1. You don't use your MorphOS machine a lot.
2. You don't pay your bills.
3. You hate having new stuff.
4. You want to look cool by showing your friends how your old Mac runs another operating system (how unimpressive).
I believe people will be more impressed to see MorphOS running on NEW Apple or other brands hardware, but that is just me.
Regards
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ahh yes but for how long JJ ? old macs will only start drying up
I'm afraid your AmineOne supply will dry out well before Mac supply will.
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well considering 5 years ago according to many the PPC market was dead but here we are now with new PPC boards available for AmigaOS. I'll eventually upgade my Sam440 to a new board by either ACube or A-Eon and that opens up the used market for older PPC boards which is a great thing indeed bringing prices down for those that want to get into the scene again.
No 5 years ago the PPC markets for the desktop was dead, it still is. OS4 has just been ported to boards that are designed and only suitable for embedded application where the PPC is still very popular. The X1000 is the exception to this but it is due to one mans desire to have a fast(ish) OS4 machine and not anything to do with the reality of the computing world.
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Lucky!
Indeed, it even had a radeon 9100 GFX card :D
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Yes, in the Power consumption at most.
In noise generation as well.
In dust collection benchmarks if you don't clean it often.
I see a lot of old mac scrap loving guys. You assume that the old cheap machine is good for you, but for me a new less power consuming machine like AmigaOne X1000 and Sam460 are better purchases, even if more expensive than an old G5 Mac.
In two years of usage time, I will pay less for my new AmigaOne hardware, than you for your old Mac, if I calculate the electricity bills in the equations. And I do.
If someone else pays your electricity bills, then buying old power un-efficient Macs with CRT is good. Too bad I have to pay my bills by myself, so I can not afford to have old G5 Mac or CRT machine. Will go for the AmigaOne though.
Of course my equations will not work for you because:
1. You don't use your MorphOS machine a lot.
2. You don't pay your bills.
3. You hate having new stuff.
4. You want to look cool by showing your friends how your old Mac runs another operating system (how unimpressive).
I believe people will be more impressed to see MorphOS running on NEW Apple or other brands hardware, but that is just me.
Regards
1) who says we dont, you been hiding in my house or something
2) I have been paying my own bills for 16 years you condescending person
3) What an idiotic thing to say
4) Dont give a fook for Macs, its just what MorphOS runs on.
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No 5 years ago the PPC markets for the desktop was dead, it still is. OS4 has just been ported to boards that are designed and only suitable for embedded application where the PPC is still very popular. The X1000 is the exception to this but it is due to one mans desire to have a fast(ish) OS4 machine and not anything to do with the reality of the computing world.
yes but we're still hear and partying:afro:
oh and never underestimate the power of one mans dream:)
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1) who says we dont, you been hiding in my house or something
Because running G5 Mac is damn expensive power consumption experience. If you don't use MorphOS a lot, you will not be afraid to have it running and mostly idling on G5 power (consumption) station.
2) I have been paying my own bills for 16 years you condescending person
So you never look at your bills? Or you never care what you pay for what? I see a lots of posts before you, saying how buying old Mac saves money. But please be clear - it saves money in the initial purchase. I presume you don't love to forecast the events.
3) What an idiotic thing to say
Read the posts before me, including the posts made by yourself, about how you praise the old hardware and how wonderful it is. And how you trash the new Amiga hardware. What an outsider would think? Please be honest.
4) Dont give a fook for Macs, its just what MorphOS runs on.
MorphOS don't runs on Macs. It runs on a very narrow range of DESKTOP Mac machines with specific CPUs (PPC) and specific graphics cards. I have a Mac (notebook) (http://hirudov.com/apple/PowerBookG4.php) at home and it does NOT run MorphOS. Please be honest, because not everyone who reads your Macs praises is an outsider.
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How good are you with repairs? I have a good spare CRT I'm looking to dump. Cap kits are cheap on eBay.
Thanks, red. My solder skills are scary, but not as scary as high-voltage CRT work. I'm less likely to embark on a repair than I am to jump to a different Mac model or just devote my efforts and resources into AOS4 (where my heart is) or AROS (where my brain is). For the moment, the bulging caps have done no harm and the display is not too bad -- although I don't see this eMac as a longterm investment.
All that said, I do own a PowerMac G5 dual-CPU 2 ghz tower that I bought new when it was top-of-the-line Apple gear. If that particular machine, which I do have some sentimental attachment to, should become supported by MorphOS I will likely buy a new license. I'd do that to reward the development and not worry with shipping a busted eMac to whomever.
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Because running G5 Mac is damn expensive power consumption experience. If you don't use MorphOS a lot, you will not be afraid to have it running and mostly idling on G5 power (consumption) station.
Oh, lets play the power game. A1X1K takes how much power on the average in a 24 hour period? G5 for the same. take the difference times what the average power company is charging @ watt hour and find where the total cost point is. I expect it to be close to if not exceeding a decade.
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Oh, lets play the power game. A1X1K takes how much power on the average in a 24 hour period? G5 for the same. take the difference times what the average power company is charging @ watt hour and find where the total cost point is. I expect it to be close to if not exceeding a decade.
Exactly. It's like when I really wanted to get a TDI here in the states. People were so desperate for them that dealers could and were marking them up 5-10000 dollars ABOVE sticker. Because they could. so, a 24k car turned into a 29-30k car. It would have taken decades to see the money saved in fuel efficiency and repairs. So I went with a 15k rabbit gasser. not nearly as fuel efficient, but really fun to drive. :D
I have heard this argument elsewhere. If you are going to get this anal, you need to factor in the electricity and energy cost it took to print the new board, assemble it, etc, as well as the resource drain. The sunk cost for the older hardware was paid for long ago. The only time that electricity argument is going to hold water is if you are operating server farms.
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I gotta say... the only time I ever worry much about power consumption in personal computers is when they need to run off batteries. Perhaps electricity is far cheaper where I live than elsewhere in the world. I dunno.
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Exactly. It's like when I really wanted to get a TDI here in the states. People were so desperate for them that dealers could and were marking them up 5-10000 dollars ABOVE sticker. Because they could. so, a 24k car turned into a 29-30k car. It would have taken decades to see the money saved in fuel efficiency and repairs. So I went with a 15k rabbit gasser. not nearly as fuel efficient, but really fun to drive. :D
OT, but I paid $19.2k for my TDI NEW. :afro:
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OT, but I paid $19.2k for my TDI NEW. :afro:
Taking the OT ball and running with it, I'm waiting for a TDI Beetle in the $3000 range to pop up, getting tired of this old air cooled antique.
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs894.ash1/180287_10150191605373849_788618848_8655959_1767181_n.jpg)
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Of course my equations will not work for you because:
1. You don't use your MorphOS machine a lot.
2. You don't pay your bills.
3. You hate having new stuff.
4. You want to look cool by showing your friends how your old Mac runs another operating system (how unimpressive).
Informal warning, stop trolling.
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I gotta say... the only time I ever worry much about power consumption in personal computers is when they need to run off batteries. Perhaps electricity is far cheaper where I live than elsewhere in the world. I dunno.
I don't worry about power consumption either, personally I'm used to running big iron professionally and as a hobby, the power usage of any desktop system pales into insignificance next to machines that need 30 or 40 amp supplies. What I really want is 3 phase to my garage so I can play with the really big stuff at home ;)
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IWhat I really want is 3 phase to my garage so I can play with the really big stuff at home ;)
This is what kept me from grabbing a very good deal on a Cray.
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This is what kept me from grabbing a very good deal on a Cray.
I didn't get an Sun E10K(for free) for the same reason then later found it can be modded to run on a 30 amp 2 phase supply :(
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@ DrHirudo
While some PowerMac G5s peak at serious uptakes the situation is quite different for teh later G5s. The iMac G5 2.0 GHz *with* 20" display just takes (according o measures by MacLife, a German Mac magazine):
iMac G5 2 GHz 20": stand by: 10 W - idle: 13 W - average: 70 W - full steam: 90 W
Well, if I substract 30W for a 20" diplay there are 40W remaining for teh computer itself. Say a Pa6T based system takes 25W on average it saves you 15W/h- 120W per working day. About 3.5 kW per month or the equal of about 0.7 EUR acording to my 100% renewable energy supplier. Makes a good tener a year. Impressive!!
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I got an 800mhz G4 powerMac for free from work that someone was going to throw out!.
I currently have the MorphOS 2.7 demo on it. I'm still contemplating registering it. Not sure yet.
Free -vs- $1000+ for a hobby OS was a no brainer for me.
What does MOS license cost? AOS is like a 149.00 USD last I looked.
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What does MOS license cost? AOS is like a 149.00 USD last I looked.
I think it's still 111.11e.
Anyway, I love my Mac minis. Very small, economic, quiet when not stressed to max, very powerful in Amiga terms. I wouldn't want to go with big boxes anymore, when you can have all the needed things in compact size nowadays. Easy to take with and not too visible on table either :) And I have embossed boing ball sticker on it, so that's for the branding ;)
You can find them starting from 100e. And big box PowerMac G4 systems have sold for 40-80e here lately.
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What does MOS license cost? AOS is like a 149.00 USD last I looked.
111 euros for the key that lets the system work for longer than 30 minutes w/o slowing down.
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Actually, new hardware has been considered, but with the current price of used Macs it hasn't made much sense to fund the construction of boards that won't offer a performance advantage over what we already have and would cost a great deal more.
As to power use and noise, I have a 1.8Ghz 7447A equipped Quicksilver Powermac which is extremely quiet and has a smaller power supply than my PC.
Of course when G5 support is introduced we;ll have 450 and 600 watt power supplies to contend with and power draw may become an issue.
Right now I'm looking at Freescale's soon to be introduced P5010. It's a single core 64 bit PPC that will run at 2Ghz on introduction. Benchmarks seem to indicate a slight performance lead over the PA6T.
The current version lacks AltiVec, but Freescale has announced that it intends to re-introduce this to the core this processor is based on. This processor uses less than 30 watts.
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OT, but I paid $19.2k for my TDI NEW. :afro:
OK I despise you now :lol:
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Taking the OT ball and running with it, I'm waiting for a TDI Beetle in the $3000 range to pop up, getting tired of this old air cooled antique.
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs894.ash1/180287_10150191605373849_788618848_8655959_1767181_n.jpg)
I'll take that antiquated POS off your hands for a lovely bunch of coconuts....
Also OT, but where is your shrouding?
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@x1000 cheerleaders
Anyone are using a x1000? i think not, why so many people defending it? x1000 is still on the vaporware stage when x1000 will be released enter in the category of underpowered and overpriced harware and thats hard to defend.
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I gotta say... the only time I ever worry much about power consumption in personal computers is when they need to run off batteries. Perhaps electricity is far cheaper where I live than elsewhere in the world. I dunno.
You live in USA. We charge ourselves a lot less $$$ for our electricity than most developed countries charge themselves for their own electricity.
I compared prices in early 2000s. It was shocking.
Germans were paying nearly triple what we were paying. France was about double. etc. etc.
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You live in USA. We charge ourselves a lot less $$$ for our electricity than most developed countries charge themselves for their own electricity.
I compared prices in early 2000s. It was shocking.
Germans were paying nearly triple what we were paying. France was about double. etc. etc.
That certainly explains the value placed on low-power consumption for devices in those regions. Of course, lower power consumption is a good thing everywhere for environmental and resouce reasons as well as economic ones. It just has not pursuaded me to prefer MorphOS over AmigaOS, despite the latter running on more expensive and less powerful (for now) hardware.
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I see a lot of folk mentioning cheap Macs here, I don't call the 350 quid I paid a few months ago for this old iMacG5 cheap and you'll very rarely see one going for much less on ebay. So where do you all buy these cheap Macs ???
Im also led to believe that MorphOS can't even be used on the G5 (something to do with the GFX Card I think) which is a shame as I reckon anything must be better than Mac OSX 10.5 ... :(
Why did you buy it in the first place? Didn't you say that it's your second from Apple? I can think of worse things than the Leopard. You should try Windows xp or vista. YUK!
Or maybe you could do what i did and use Ubuntu :)
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Apart from environmental concerns, the power consumption of my computer, tvs and consoles etc are not a financial concern. I dont need to look at what power they suck up.
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G4 tower for free that was been used as a door stop at a client office :D
Best use of a Mac ever. They make great door stops.
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Why did you buy it in the first place? Didn't you say that it's your second from Apple? I can think of worse things than the Leopard. You should try Windows xp or vista. YUK!
Or maybe you could do what i did and use Ubuntu :)
Yup it was the second one in the space of about two months, I only bought it cos the G4 played YouTube videos more like a slide show but the G5 plays them fine... :)
Windows... boak, main reason why I don't like PCs just can't stand Windows in any of it's releases... :)
Still only found one use for these Macs though and that's the net, everything else computing wise is best done on the Amiga... :)
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Okay, the answer of the thread why no new hardware for MorphOS is stated in thread about Sam 460 (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=610495&postcount=237)
The money from the registrations is mostly used to keep the web site, registration server and other support infrastructure running. It is also used to obtain hardware for potential future ports.
Keyword in the above statement obtain. I.e. money coming from MorphOS registrations are used to obtain potential hardware for future ports, not development of hardware, research, marketing or anything else. The money coming from MorphOS are not going to MorphOS at all, and are used to obtain old hardware, that is getting older and older. Hence the reason Why no new hardware for MorphOS.
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@drHirudo
Ok, thanks. Now please explain my reply to you.
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Okay, the answer of the thread why no new hardware for MorphOS is stated in thread about Sam 460 (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=610495&postcount=237)
Keyword in the above statement obtain. I.e. money coming from MorphOS registrations are used to obtain potential hardware for future ports, not development of hardware, research, marketing or anything else. The money coming from MorphOS are not going to MorphOS at all, and are used to obtain old hardware, that is getting older and older. Hence the reason Why no new hardware for MorphOS.
If you think that the income from registrations would generate enough income to allow developing our own custom hardware you're deluding yourself.
However, nowhere do I claim that it would be all "old" hardware. That's just your wishful thinking.
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hirudo:
better that than not to know what the money goes into. btw these few hundred/tousand anything that are to gain in the amiga community selling os licences (be it mos or os4) are not going to harm or to save anyone. lets us get real.
edit: im so slow in typing.. sigh
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If you think that the income from registrations would generate enough income to allow developing our own custom hardware you're deluding yourself.
Custom hardware in the Amiga Community was developed without any prior income - reference - Minimig, AmigaOne X1000.
However, nowhere do I claim that it would be all "old" hardware. That's just your wishful thinking.
There is no proof on the Internet, neither at any of the recent Amiga shows, to believe there will be new hardware running MorphOS. Of course nothing stops MorphOS being ported to new hardware, as nothing stops AmigaOS being ported to new hardware. But lets have facts at hand (http://www.acube-systems.biz/index.php?page=news). So far - no new hardware for MorphOS. The reasons stated in my previous post are still valid.
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"There is no proof on the Internet"
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Custom hardware in the Amiga Community was developed without any prior income - reference - Minimig, AmigaOne X1000.
1. You can't run MorphOS on a MiniMig-class device (< 50 MHz CPU, < 8 MB of RAM).
2. AmigaOne was not developed - it was just a slightly modified Teron mobo.
3. X1000 does not exist as a sellable product yet. Also Trevor Dickinson cash may be considered a "prior income".
There is no proof on the Internet, neither at any of the recent Amiga shows, to believe there will be new hardware running MorphOS. Of course nothing stops MorphOS being ported to new hardware
So why are you so sure then?
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Custom hardware in the Amiga Community was developed without any prior income - reference - Minimig,
Minimig is rather inexpensive development. Very nice personal achievement there. But lets face it, it won't quite run complex modern OS.
AmigaOne X1000.
Several hundred thousand euros has been invested into this project, with tiny prospect of success. Trevor himself has acknowledged this by stating that he'd be happy to break even.
At least I'd like to keep my hobbies less expensive.
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1. You can't run MorphOS on a MiniMig-class device (< 50 MHz CPU, < 8 MB of RAM).
Bad for MorphOS. Less potential customers. I am going to buy C-One with MiniMig extender module. I will not miss MorphOS though, but if it was running I would give it a try.
2. AmigaOne was not developed - it was just a slightly modified Teron mobo.
You can't run AmigaOS on Teron mobo. There are Amiga developments on the AmigaOne board.
3. X1000 does not exist as a sellable product yet. Also Trevor Dickinson cash may be considered a "prior income".
Sam 460 exists. The income from the sales of the Sam 440 were used for the development and marketing of the Sam 460 and AmigaOS 4.1. The AmigaOne X1000 was shown running AmigaOS 4.1. The sales of AmigaOS 4.1 helped Hyperion go to the exhibitions and show the machine running AmigaOS 4.1.
So why are you so sure then?
Okay, come on. MorphOS still does not work good on Mac laptops, neither on G5 Macs, nor is available to the public, but is was shown at shows and on the Internet.
Are you saying that MorphOS runs on some unknown, brand new hardware, that the developers are not willing to share about? Come on.
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So far - no new hardware for MorphOS.
So what? My old, dusty, stinky power mac is still outperforming your brand new, shiny AmigaOS4 hardware.
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Bad for MorphOS. Less potential customers. I am going to buy C-One with MiniMig extender module.
Good luck running AmigaOS4 on it! ;)
You can't run AmigaOS on Teron mobo. There are Amiga developments on the AmigaOne board.
The only difference was a dongle inside the firmware that OS4 checks for. You wouldn't want to have customers able to run your OS on nothing but HW you control after all?
MorphOS still does not work good on Mac laptops
It runs very well on my PowerBook G4. Here it's running on Jacek's powerbook:
[youtube]tYeZCsKvjSg[/youtube]
neither on G5 Macs
More work is needed there, but it's working better all the time. Some shots from iMac G5 for instance:
showconfig (http://tunkki.dk/~cyfm/iMacG5-1.jpg)
desktop (http://tunkki.dk/~cyfm/iMacG5-2.jpg)
memtest (http://tunkki.dk/~cyfm/iMacG5-3.jpg)
system overview (http://tunkki.dk/~cyfm/iMacG5-4.jpg)
There wasn't need to spend several hundred of thousands of euros to develop this hardware.
Are you saying that MorphOS runs on some unknown, brand new hardware, that the developers are not willing to share about? Come on.
You expect anyone to reveal anything to you about any possible future developments? Come on.
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So what? My old, dusty, stinky power mac is still outperforming your brand new, shiny AmigaOS4 hardware.
Why is it stinky?
Some people prefer brand new machines, than used, smelly, scratched and looking bad machines.
One of the reasons I prefer new hardware over old hardware is because of that odd smell. Especially if the previous owner was a smoker, the smell is disgusting.
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Good luck running AmigaOS4 on it! ;)
AmigaOS is good enough for me. Also, I feel at home with it ;)
The only difference was a dongle inside the firmware that OS4 checks for. You wouldn't want to have customers able to run your OS on nothing but HW you control after all?
The other difference was that AmigaOne was available for purchase in single quantities for
end customers. Can you say the same for the Terons? So far - AmigaOne - end user product - Teron - development board. Quite a difference.
It runs very well on my PowerBook G4.
Not on mine. So far you can not say that MorphOS runs on PowerBooks G4, because it does not. You can say that MacOS X runs on PowerBooks and it is the truth. MorphOS does not run on my PowerBook. MorphOS does not run on Mac PowerBooks, period.
You expect anyone to reveal anything to you about any possible future developments? Come on.
It was a common tactic of MorphOS devs to reveal possible future developments, especially when new Amiga developments were announced and took all the attention of the tiny community. Of course I am not expecting for you to admit your tactics - but the pattern is obvious.
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Bad for MorphOS. Less potential customers. I am going to buy C-One with MiniMig extender module. I will not miss MorphOS though, but if it was running I would give it a try.
You should buy some Pentium 3 machine and after learning that Windows 7 does not run on it, state "Bad for Windows 7. Less potential customers". The same level of reasoning.
You can't run AmigaOS on Teron mobo. There are Amiga developments on the AmigaOne board.
Yes, modifying some bits in EEPROM chip and checking them at system startup is the biggest "Amiga development" on this board.
Sam 460 exists. The income from the sales of the Sam 440 were used for the development and marketing of the Sam 460 and AmigaOS 4.1. The AmigaOne X1000 was shown running AmigaOS 4.1. The sales of AmigaOS 4.1 helped Hyperion go to the exhibitions and show the machine running AmigaOS 4.1.
How it is related to your previous list of "Amiga custom hardware developed without a prior income"?
MorphOS still does not work good on Mac laptops
Much better than AmigaOS 4 on X1000 prototype.
Are you saying that MorphOS runs on some unknown, brand new hardware, that the developers are not willing to share about? Come on.
No. But if "nothing stops MorphOS to be ported to new hardware" (your words), you can't predict that it will never happen in the future.
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One of the reasons I prefer new hardware over old hardware is because of that odd smell. Especially if the previous owner was a smoker, the smell is disgusting.
An old C64 I bought on ebay this week reeks of a very strong perfume after it's been on for a few minutes... :(
Still now that I've thoroughly cleaned it, it wont be long until my 40 a day habit has it reeking like an old ashtray... lovely jubblly... :)
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The other difference was that AmigaOne was available for purchase in single quantities for end customers. Can you say the same for the Terons?
Several companies were supposed to sell Terons for end users. They however quickly found out that the hardware was just too broken. They decided against selling such defect boards to their customers.
Eyetech didn't have such moral problems. They were happy to sell broken HW to end users.
Not on mine.
I'm sorry for the delay but we wish to make sure that our product is feature complete, stable and has been beta tested before we sell it our customer.
It was a common tactic of MorphOS devs to reveal possible future developments, especially when new Amiga developments were announced and took all the attention of the tiny community.
Surely a coincidence. ;)
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The other difference was that AmigaOne was available for purchase in single quantities for end customers. Can you say the same for the Terons?
But it hardly can be defined as "Amiga development to the board". At least not one requiring some prior income comparable to cost of developing a new hardware.
Not on mine. So far you can not say that MorphOS runs on PowerBooks G4, because it does not.
Your Power Book is not the only one in the world. What if I state that Power Mac model I own, is unable to run MacOS? I have no MacOS installed on my HDD, so I can't run it here. There is some difference between "There is no public version of MorphOS running on PowerBook" and your claims.
MorphOS does not run on my PowerBook. MorphOS does not run on Mac PowerBooks, period.
I've worked in MorphOS on such a PowerBook for a few hours. What now?
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Why is it stinky?
Some people prefer brand new machines, than used, smelly, scratched and looking bad machines.
One of the reasons I prefer new hardware over old hardware is because of that odd smell. Especially if the previous owner was a smoker, the smell is disgusting.
Well, don't buy from doubtious sources. The seller of my Mac mini told me to be no smoker and that she cared well for teh device. 1st hand, Apple care, original boxes. It is neither smelly nor cratchy, but it was cheap, is very reliable, shiny, silent energy efficient (seemy mearures at http://via.i-networx.de/bench_en.html#uptake ) pretty fast and I needed not to wait until summer 2010 (and longer) but enjoy that device since more than 2 years now).
btw.
Btw. any comment on your attempt to diss the MorphOS G5 effort with the arguemnet of high energy uptake now that I provided you numbers? Where are your numbers for the X1000 then?
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Well, don't buy from doubtious sources. The seller of my Mac mini told me to be no smoker and that she cared well for teh device. 1st hand, Apple care, original boxes. It is neither smelly nor cratchy, but it was cheap, is very reliable, shiny, silent energy efficient (seemy mearures at http://via.i-networx.de/bench_en.html#uptake ) pretty fast and I needed not to wait until summer 2010 (and longer) but enjoy that device since more than 2 years now).
btw.
Btw. any comment on your attempt to diss the MorphOS G5 effort with the arguemnet of high energy uptake now that I provided you numbers? Where are your numbers for the X1000 then?
Well Zylesea, you know me and you know I'm a rabid supporter of MorphOS, but the G5 really is a power hog. The faster models come with a 600 watt power supply. Thats almost twice the output of a G4 power supply.
I'm not sure about PA Semi's product, but I'm fairly sure it uses less power.
However, I also don't really see the validity of the argument either. I live in a town on the east coast of the United States that charges a premium for electricity and even so the differences would not significantly affect my monthly bill.
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The faster models come with a 600 watt power supply. Thats almost twice the output of a G4 power supply.
I'm not sure about PA Semi's product, but I'm fairly sure it uses less power.
Some PowerMac G4 are really sucking a lot of juice. But don't just trust the PSU ratings - do actual measurements. The 2x2GHz G5 Powermac drains about 150 on average use. That's quite a lot. But I was speaking about the iMac G5 - and these don't take that much enrgy up. Just read my numbers from above.
So it is true, there are PowerMac G5s that peak at max load with really high values (in the several hunderet watts range), but not *all* G5s. Select your G5 with care and then these issues become void.
I use 100% renewable energy, a kW costs me about 0.215 EUR and I am quite employed on energy efficience and stuff like that. I am pretty much aware of what I am talking about.
Have to check the numbers of the iMac 20" myself though (don't have one yet). Same is true for the X1000. IIRC in some posing it was said it sucks 25W - sounds plausible to me.
Given the numbers I gave above are right, an iMac G5 2 GHz consumes energy for 10EUR more on a year than an X1000... Speedwise these devices should be pretty on par.
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Providing a few more number for the iMac G5: The 2.1 GHz version takes about 90W on average use with a medium bright display. Lets assume 30W for the display (my 22" Dell 2209WA sucks more). Makes 60W for the G5 system, say the PA6T system goes as low as 25W this makes a difference of 35W/h. Assume 8hrs usage a day this sums up to a bit above 8kw/month. Multiply this with 12 and you end up with about 200kw more enrgy uptake than the Pa6T system. Costs me with 0.215 EUR/kw 43 EUR/year - for 365*8hrs.
My aasumptions for the PA6T system are optimistic here. The 2.0 GHz version draws a little less.
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Very informative Zylesea. So I would assume the power supplies on G5 Powermacs have a lot of excess capacity for expansion items like drives and video cards. I'm surprised the G5s are that efficient.
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I think this whole morph verses aos4 thing is kind of funny. I also think, regarless of people crying for unity, that competition is good for both camps.
I wonder how many people who bought an "amigaone" board realized that it was just a board that was never intended for that. Morphos people getting trashed for porting to mac hardware is kinda funny considering that none of the boards running os4 were designed for that purpose.
X1000 may be different, but endless delays so far, it dosn't look good.
Myself? I run AROS on a 3ghz box that runs rings around anything os4 or morphos can touch for pure processing power.
I will say that if morphos gets running on powermac g5's I'll be the first to buy one and a morphos liscense. I think they should do that because if x1000 ever gets released, they can have hardware just as fast for 1/10 of the price.
Steven
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Your Power Book is not the only one in the world. What if I state that Power Mac model I own, is unable to run MacOS?
That statement would be utterly wrong. Fact is that you CAN install MacOS on this model.
I have no MacOS installed on my HDD, so I can't run it here. There is some difference between "There is no public version of MorphOS running on PowerBook" and your claims.
There is version for your Power Mac model of MacOS X that runs on it. There is no version of MorphOS that runs on my PowerBook.
I've worked in MorphOS on such a PowerBook for a few hours. What now?
MorphOS works on very narrow range of PowerBook models with specific video chips inside. MorphOS does not work on PowerBooks, period.
Now imagine this scene: You run MorphOS on Powerbook and some experienced Mac user likes the operating system and want installed it on his Powerbook.
-Then you make a statement - it works on Powerbook!
So he trusts you and downloads MorphOS, only to find that it does not work on his Powerbook. I would prefer to avoid situations as such, where I will be taken as liar. But when you say - MorphOS runs on Mac Powerbooks - you will be a liar.
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MorphOS works on very narrow range of PowerBook models with specific video chips inside. MorphOS does not work on PowerBooks, period.
I find it hard to believe Piru wasted his time arguing with someone who obviously can't reason their way out of a paper bag.
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Are you stating that MorphOS runs on Powerbooks? Please write it so I can quote you in the Mac forums. Surely a selling point for the Powerbooks. Will raise their price a lot.
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MorphOS does not work on PowerBooks, period.
And a few lines later...
-Then you make a statement - it works on Powerbook!
So he trusts you and downloads MorphOS, only to find that it does not work on his Powerbook. I would prefer to avoid situations as such, where I will be taken as liar. But when you say - MorphOS runs on Mac Powerbooks - you will be a liar.
Note that when we take into account your first statement cited above and apply your logic of "one case falsifying all other cases", you are a liar now...
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the G5 really is a power hog. The faster models come with a 600 watt power supply.
My PC with GeForce GTX240 requires a 1,000W power supply. Such is life.
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And a few lines later...
Note that when we take into account your first statement cited above and apply your logic of "one case falsifying all other cases", you are a liar now...
What? Citing my words out of context in order to prove some fallacy. What a nice dood you are.
I say it again. Please read carefully:
MorphOS works on very narrow range of PowerBook models with specific video chips inside. MorphOS does not work on PowerBooks, period.
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My PC with GeForce GTX240 requires a 1,000W power supply. Such is life.
Hmm. My system has an 850W PSU and I'm using a GTX275. What else do you have in there?
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Hmm. My system has an 850W PSU and I'm using a GTX275. What else do you have in there?
When I built the system I bought the power supply based on the recommendation of the gfx card manufacturer. It listed 1,000W as requirement.
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When I built the system I bought the power supply based on the recommendation of the gfx card manufacturer. It listed 1,000W as requirement.
Wow, mine is listed as 550W as the minimum; the card itself can draw up to 220W, figures which basically match nVidia's reference implementation:
http://www.nvidia.com/object/product_geforce_gtx_275_us.html
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I say it again.
You may say it again a hundred times. It will not add a tiny bit of truth to it however.
MorphOS works on very narrow range of PowerBook models with specific video chips inside. MorphOS does not work on PowerBooks, period.
"Only a few people have been to the Moon. The Moon is unreachable for mankind. Period." - this analogy shows your logic at work.
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What? Citing my words out of context in order to prove some fallacy. What a nice dood you are.
I say it again. Please read carefully:
MorphOS works on very narrow range of PowerBook models with specific video chips inside. MorphOS does not work on PowerBooks, period.
Your arguments defy logic.
Just so we're all on the same page, the public version of MorphOS available today runs on:
Any PPC Mac mini
Any Powermac G4 Tower with ATI graphics*
1.25GHz eMac
Pegasos I/II
Efika
Internal development versions also run on:
At least one model of Powermac G5
At least one model of iMac G5
At least one model of 15" Powerbook G4
* Correction: except the very first (PCI-only) model
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Your arguments defy logic.
Just so we're all on the same page, the public version of MorphOS available today runs on:
Any Powermac
Cool. I will buy Powermac. It will run MorphOS!
The same argument your mate Krashan used.
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Wow, mine is listed as 550W as the minimum; the card itself can draw up to 220W, figures which basically match nVidia's reference implementation:
http://www.nvidia.com/object/product_geforce_gtx_275_us.html
Whoops, I mistyped. I have a GTX260, not GTX240. Google now shows a minimum requirement of 500W (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-Details.asp?EdpNo=4369731&sku=E145-0264), but I specifically remember the box stated 1,000W. Too bad the box was thrown away long ago.
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Cool. I will buy Powermac. It will run MorphOS!
So you have decided to use such primitive tricks as cutting statements fragments to support your lack of logical reasoning? Do you really think that noone will notice a difference between "Any Powermac G4 Tower with ATI graphics" and your manipulated "Any Powermac"? Simply pathetic.
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Just so we're all on the same page, the public version of MorphOS available today runs on:
All Powermac
Cool. I will buy the latest Mac. It will run MorphOS!
We are playing an online version of the broken telephone game, aren't we? :-)
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Cool. I will buy the latest Mac. It will run MorphOS!
We are playing an online version of the broken telephone game, aren't we? :-)
Reminds me of my time in Kindergarten.
..... oh happy days ........
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So you have decided to use such primitive tricks as cutting statements fragments to support your lack of logical reasoning? Do you really think that noone will notice a difference between "Any Powermac G4 Tower with ATI graphics" and your manipulated "Any Powermac"? Simply pathetic.
Just like you skipped the first statement of mine and then used the later part.
Do you really think that noone will notice a difference between the whole post and the part you quoted?
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Cool. I will buy Powermac G4 Tower with ATI graphics[/i]. It will run MorphOS!
The same argument your mate Krashan used.
^ Fixed that for you, and yes, it will! Hope you have a lot of fun with your new machine :)
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^ Fixed that for you, and yes, it will! Hope you have a lot of fun with your new machine :)
Surely, I will have lot of fun with my new AmigaOne machine :) Thank you :)
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Surely, I will have lot of fun with my new AmigaOne machine :) Thank you :)
Look, we can't have a discussion if you keep changing the rules.
We know you're an OS4 fan. Great, that's fine. I'm an OS4 user myself. But if/when my AmigaOneXE breaks down, I'm going to have to think long and hard about replacing it. The warranty on a SAM or X1000 doesn't make up for the absurd amounts of money I'd have to spend to ship it back to Europe for service, plus the significantly higher initial investment.
Point is, I think you'll find most MorphOS users perfectly happy re-using cheap and cheerful PPC Macs. I could hop on to my local craigslist and pick up a clean, cared-for, and MorphOS-capable machine for almost no money at all. And I could probably have the transaction completed and the system up and running within 24 hours or less. Not quite as good as going into a store and pulling a system off the shelf, but pretty good, don't you think? And if it breaks, I could either get a replacement machine through the same process, or take the 20 minute train ride to an Apple store to have it serviced. There's no need to develop new hardware while there are so many compatible systems out there.
And if the OS4 port to the Mac mini had ever been completed (do you remember how much excitement there was surrounding that?), I expect you'd find most OS4 users thinking similarly.
Besides, as Amiga users, we buy used and out-of-warranty hardware all the time. (Anyone want to part with a Toccata card?) Sometimes it's even dirty!
I hope AEon succeeds with the X1000 (and I hope I can justify the cost of one), but I think they'd have been more likely to break even (or even profit) if they had bankrolled a new OS4 Mac port instead.
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Ditto that. I finally broke down and purchased a MorphOS machine. To be correct, a PowerMac G4 at 150$. Add the cost of MorphOS to that and I have a 300$ system. Which is money I can spare for the amount I'm likely to use it. The X1000 simply doesn't justify itself cost-wise.
I would have paid for OS4 on a Mac Mini...
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Hmm... finding this thread a wee bit confusing... :(
It's posted under "Amiga Hardware Issues & Discusions" but it mainly seems to be about MorphOS running on Macs, I admit I know very little about MorphOS but I'm kinda confused about where the Amiga fits into all of this or has A.org been taken over by a Mac forum... :)
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Hmm... finding this thread a wee bit confusing... :(
It's posted under "Amiga Hardware Issues & Discusions" but it mainly seems to be about MorphOS running on Macs, I admit I know very little about MorphOS but I'm kinda confused about where the Amiga fits into all of this or has A.org been taken over by a Mac forum... :)
You must know by now that MorphOS is a PPC AmigaOS compatible OS that runs on PPC macs...
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Probably because you're thinking like a purist, Franko. :) I stopped thinking that way a lllloooonnnngggg time ago...
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@ Karlos
Can't you change the poll thingy so that in future it's not longer just an option to see who voted for what, that way the culprits will be exposed for being such rotters... :)
(ooops... this one's in the wrong place should've been in the "Do you want AmigaONE X1000 project to fail?" thread...sorry... :)
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You must know by now that MorphOS is a PPC AmigaOS compatible OS that runs on PPC macs...
Nope... but I do now... :)
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Hmm... finding this thread a wee bit confusing... :(
It's posted under "Amiga Hardware Issues & Discusions" but it mainly seems to be about MorphOS running on Macs, I admit I know very little about MorphOS but I'm kinda confused about where the Amiga fits into all of this or has A.org been taken over by a Mac forum... :)
MorphOS basically *is* (an) AmigaOS. It started a bit more than 10 years ago to write an OS that is fully OS3.x compatible, shares the same API and logic to use.
There is exec, intuition, dos, mui and all that stuff under the hood. The disklayout is the same as under OS3.x (c, s, devs, libs, prefs, utilities, tools, classes, locale), the RAM disk works the same, DOS shares the same commands and syntax. It is directly comaptible to non custom chip banging 68k software, as well as PowerUp software and WarpOS software.
It is written by many of those folks who actively kept Amiga alive when noone else was there in the late 90ies. The MorphOS-Team was in negotiation with Amiga Inc to make MorphOS the official AmigaOS4 but the conditions were unacceptable, so Hyperion later took this. MorphOS suported initially the P5 CyberstormPPC and BlizzardPPC (support for these cards ceased with the 2.0 release), then the various Pegasos computers and the Efika5200B.
Recently MorphOS happen to support some Apple PowerPC gear. Maybe in future MorphOS will shift the supported ISA, but not too soon.
Is that Amiga enough?
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MorphOS basically *is* an AmigaOS. It started a bit more than10 years ago to write an OS that is fully OS3.x compatible, shares the same API and logic touse.
There is exec, intuition, dos, mui and all that stuff under the hood. The disklayout is the same as under OS3.x (c, s, devs, libs, prefs, utilities, tools), the RAM disk works teh same. It is directly comaptible to non custom chip banging 68k software, as well as PowerUp software and WarpOS software.
It is written by many of those folks who actively kept Amiga alive when noone else was there in the later 90ies. The MorphOS-Team was in negotiation with Amiga Inc to make MorphOS the official AmigaOS4 but the conditions were unacceptable, so Hyperion later took this. MorphOS suported initially the P5 CyberstormPPC and BlizzardPPC (support for these cards ceased with teh 2.0 release), then the various Pegasos computers and the Efika5200B.
Recently MorphOS happen to support some Apple PowerPC gear. Maybe in future MorphOS will shift the supported ISA, but not too soon.
Is that Amiga enough?
Well it's the best explanation of MorphOS I've heard thanks, but I still don't get why this thread is mainly about it running on Macs unless it's giving you an Amiga emulation on a Mac, in that case MorphOS would be very interesting to me...:)
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I still don't get why this thread is mainly about it running on Macs
It's because these compatible PPC Macs can be bought at a fraction of the price of a custom built "amiga" hardware. Say 200 € instead of 1000+ € for a complete system.
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It's because these compatible PPC Macs can be bought at a fraction of the price of a custom built "amiga" hardware. Say 200 € instead of 1000+ € for a complete system.
Please don't omit very important parts in your statement. These compatible PPC Macs can be bought second hand at a fraction of the price of a custom built "amiga" hardware. Say 200 € instead of 1000+ € for a complete system.
You can buy designer's clothes for pennies at a thrift shop, that cost hundred of dollars in the mall. You can buy used Mac very cheap as well. If you are into that kind of stuff.
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@drHirudo
I bet no OS4 user has ever sold their old system or bought a 2nd hand system. I mean everyone just trash their old AmigaOnes and SAMs, since they're obviously worthless... as they're no longer new.
Besides Apple has moved away from PPC years ago. It goes without saying that any PPC Mac bought is not new.
Really, you're starting to sound like a broken record here.
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@drHirudo
I bet no OS4 user has ever sold their old system or bought a 2nd hand system. I mean everyone just trash their old AmigaOnes and SAMs, since they're obviously worthless... as they're no longer new.
Really, you're starting to sound like a broken record here.
And you sound like a person who places the facts around what he wants to prove and skips the rest.
It was obvious that you compared the price to a second hand system to a brand new one. I made a fair comparison with the clothes from thrift shop and a designers shop. Then you continue with personal insults.
If you make such statements about 100 Euro versus 1000 Euro, please state that the 100 Euro are for second hand hardware, while the 1000 Euro are for new. It have nothing to do if AmigaOS users buy or not second hand hardware.
But you compare hardware scrap with hardware produced in the recent years that have some additional taxes attached to it like RoHS tax, money denominations, etc... I have no problems with your agenda, but the persons who don't know much like Franko will happen to believe your fallacies.
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Well it's the best explanation of MorphOS I've heard thanks, but I still don't get why this thread is mainly about it running on Macs unless it's giving you an Amiga emulation on a Mac, in that case MorphOS would be very interesting to me...:)
MorphOS doesn't need an Amiga emulation - it just executes Amiga programs exactly as if they were MorphOS native programs. With the one difference: the 68k code is translated to ppc code on the fly by the 68k JIT (Maxxon cinema raytracer runs more than 50 times as fast as on an 68040/25 with the MorphOS JIT on a G4/1500 and about 30 times as fast on a G3/600 more benchmark results: http://via.i-networx.de/bench_en.html )
Look, for example I use Turbocalc, GoldEd and TV paint quite a lot (all 68k Amiga programs) - on my Pegasos, Efika and Mac mini directly with MorphOS. Even an old program from an old appetizder disk (the program write) works on MorphOS - and hence on Apple hardware.
The software that directly bangs the Amiga custom hardware (many older games or DPaint IV) usually doesn't work on MorphOS, but runs on E-UAE which is well integrated into Ambient (the workbench replacement): adf files can get launched with UAE straightly. But you need UAE *only* for hardware banging stuff, non banging stuff is executed directly (even old 1.x programs).
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Wow finally I understand what MorphOS can actually do and now it's very interesting indeed to me... :)
Looks like I'll need to head to eBay and buy another Mac to give this a try... :)
(Wish someone had explained it clearly before like you just have... :))
Cheers
Franko
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And you sound like a person who places the facts around what he wants to prove and skips the rest.
I didn't skip the facts. I assumed everyone in world knows that Apple no longer produces PowerPC Macs. If you think that this is intentional misleading then I can't help you.
It was obvious that you compared the price to a second hand system to a brand new one.
Hmm wait, first you say I am twisting facts but next you agree with me that I didn't? Okay, I guess that makes sense.
I made a fair comparison with the clothes from thrift shop and a designers shop. Then you continue with personal insults.
If you think I've made any personal insults report them to the moderators.
f you make such statements about 100 Euro versus 1000 Euro, please state that the 100 Euro are for second hand hardware, while the 1000 Euro are for new.
I did. It was implied. Everyone knows Apple no longer produces PowerPC hardware.
It have nothing to do if AmigaOS users buy or not second hand hardware.
Perhaps, but I did neatly demonstrate how this "only new is good" idea was clearly bogus. There is nothing wrong in 2nd hand hardware.
But you compare hardware scrap
So in your opinion anything not new is "scrap". It doesn't make it a fact.
with hardware produced in the recent years that have some additional taxes attached to it like RoHS tax, money denominations
Yes those are some the problems when producing new custom HW. These are some of the reasons why it is impossible to produce custom PowerPC HW with sensible prices, and ultimately the reason why 2nd hand Macs are so attractive.
the persons who don't know much like Franko will happen to believe your fallacies.
Your concern for others is commendable. But could you do that without insulting them?
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I bet no OS4 user has ever sold their old system or bought a 2nd hand system. I mean everyone just trash their old AmigaOnes and SAMs, since they're obviously worthless... as they're no longer new..
I realise this was meant as a sarcastic response, but my A1 is second hand. One careful previous owner, another amiga.org long time member with a passion for gadgetry ;)
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Wow finally I understand what MorphOS can actually do and now it's very interesting indeed to me... :)
Looks like I'll need to head to eBay and buy another Mac to give this a try... :)
(Wish someone had explained it clearly before like you just have... :))
Cheers
Franko
The biggest difference in everday usage is probably between Ambient and Workbench. Ambinet is MUI based and offers really a lot, but looks a bit different to Workbench (but can easily be skinned to any taste) and offers a bit different usability. This may need a little time to get familiar with, but today (after using Ambient for a longer while) I always get the impression Workbench is really outdated and I feel way more comfortable on Ambient than on Workbench...
While not recomended it should still be possible to replace Ambient with 68k Workbench (a few ppl did that during the early days of Ambient).
If you like to read a bit more about MorphOS I suggest "MorphOS the lighning OS by Fulvio Peruggi, find it on http://library.morphzone.org/Main_Page - though not maximally up to date, it is worth a read anyway Or the even older article "A close glimpse to MorphOS" but that one is referringto MorphOS 1.x and from 2005. Anyway, I think there's still something in, find teh pdf here: http://via.i-networx.de/docs/glimpse_2_MorphOS_p1_V1.0SE.pdf (958kb).
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@ zylesea
Cheers once again, just downloaded the PDF and going to give it a read. You should write a basic introduction to MorphOS for numpties like me, I've learned more about it in your past few posts than I have in my whole time on the net since June of last year... :)
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I realise this was meant as a sarcastic response, but my A1 is second hand. One careful previous owner, another amiga.org long time member with a passion for gadgetry ;)
Hehe. I'm posting this from my spanking new MacBook Pro 13" :)
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Look Ma! I'm computing without a safety net!
Warranties - yeah, whatever... This notion of only-new-will-do kinda craps on Classic users doesn't it? And they're the only ones with 'real' Amiga hardware too... Better say sorry guys! There could be hissy fits... >:(
Kidding - of course. This kind of non-issue is kind of funny - in a pathetic kind of way...
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But you compare hardware scrap with hardware produced in the recent years that have some additional taxes attached to it like RoHS tax,(...) .
There is no RoHS tax. RoHS only defines which materials are no rlonger allowed to use for electronic goods. There is, however the WEEE directive. The cost varies from country to country. For example the "Stiftung EAR" (Germany) expects the manufacturer to take back as many goods as produced (well, the actual method is a bit more complicated). For god's sake let's also put the cost of the registration fees into that which (thank god!!!) were drastically lowered in recent years coming down to a few hundered EUR (since 2008 one registration is enough for the entire EU). If A-eon will sell 250 boards they will probably don't have to to take back any waste at all, but in worst case (one container, which will generate costs of a few hundered EUR), the total cost (registration and recycling) will be in the range of 1000 EUR- which makes 4 EUR/item - in worst case (German prices)! That makes a huge difference on the 2000 EUR for the X1000!
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Probably because you're thinking like a purist...
purist..nah...just can't get over my dislike of Macs period..really have nothing against MOS and would definitely buy a copy if they decide to port it over to new existing PPC machines like the Sam440/460 and X1000.
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I was just going to get a mac to run morphOS, now I think I should get a Sam 460 as well with AOS4, just to see if they start yelling at each other on my desk. I'll put the A4000 in between as mediator. The linux box can watch and shake its head.
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@ TheBilgeRat
oh the drama:laughing:
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I was just going to get a mac to run morphOS, now I think I should get a Sam 460 as well with AOS4, just to see if they start yelling at each other on my desk. I'll put the A4000 in between as mediator. The linux box can watch and shake its head.
they'll gang up on the windows machine passing by though :)
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@ TheBilgeRat
oh the drama:laughing:
:D
Ain't I a stinker!
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I was just going to get a mac to run morphOS, now I think I should get a Sam 460 as well with AOS4, just to see if they start yelling at each other on my desk. I'll put the A4000 in between as mediator. The linux box can watch and shake its head.
Hehe. You almost described my desk.
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purist..nah...just can't get over my dislike of Macs period..really have nothing against MOS and would definitely buy a copy if they decide to port it over to new existing PPC machines like the Sam440/460 and X1000.
Well, my comment was directed at Franko. I thought he was in the 68k, Amiga hardware only category... my bad. :)
As to porting, then your cost of ownership goes up and you lose people like me. Sams and the X1000 are just too much. My humble opinion, of course. :) I think MorphOS choice to port to Mac hardware is the smarter move IF the OS must be on PPC.
Of course, I also think that it isn't necessary for the OS to remain on PPC, so I also don't thing MorphOS' move is the smartest move.
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@ zylesea
Cheers once again, just downloaded the PDF and going to give it a read. You should write a basic introduction to MorphOS for numpties like me, I've learned more about it in your past few posts than I have in my whole time on the net since June of last year... :)
Franko if none of the the mac you own are supported, I believe you have a PPC card for your A1200. THere is an older version of MorhpOS for free that will tun on this card.
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@Dr Hirudo
So you know where goes the MorphOS´s money that comes from the registrations?
Maybe then simply invested in nice girls serving pinacoladas 24/7 and are living happy evenafter...
As long as they are offering a competitive product, i dont give a damm what are the uses of that money.
On a more personal note, its not my bussines where the MorphOS money goes, nor the Os4 one, and IMO, isnt your bussines neither.
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@Dr Hirudo
So you know where goes the MorphOS´s money that comes from the registrations?
I quoted main MorphOS dev that no money from registrations come to him and where they go. If he is telling the truth, then I know.
I used his answer to explain why there will be no new hardware for MorphOS.
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Franko if none of the the mac you own are supported, I believe you have a PPC card for your A1200. THere is an older version of MorhpOS for free that will tun on this card.
Gotta admit buying the PPC board was a bit of a waste of time & money really, only use it for the Frodo C64 emulator and creating MP3s... :(
I'd prefer to keep my Amigas 68K based and look around ebay for a Mac that I can try MorphOS on to see what it's really like, won't be abandoning the miggies though, just curious to see what MorphOS can do... :)
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Gotta admit buying the PPC board was a bit of a waste of time & money really, only use it for the Frodo C64 emulator and creating MP3s... :(
I'd prefer to keep my Amigas 68K based and look around ebay for a Mac that I can try MorphOS on to see what it's really like, won't be abandoning the miggies though, just curious to see what MorphOS can do... :)
That makes sense. And there have been significant upgrades since the Amiga version.
Also, in order to run, you need an RTG graphics card. MorphOS does not support Amiga graphics.
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Quite honestly, the smartest move MorphOS ever did was base their dev on the hardline HW guidelines Apple did.
I'd like to think they did that deliberately, but I don't know much about the project. Avoids the gongshow AROS has with SATA/gfx cards not working, etc.
If it's on the list, MorphOS will run on it. No dicking around waiting for 3d drivers, sata drivers, etc - everything is universal.
As for why no new hardware? Morph runs quite fine on HW that most people consider "doorstops", like the G4 minis. The Apple crowd will give those damned things away all day long cause they just aren't cool enough anymore :) Morph isn't a HW company, and tbh, going against the Intel/x86 camps hardware wise these days is sheer suicide on the consumer end.
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Quite honestly, the smartest move MorphOS ever did was base their dev on the hardline HW guidelines Apple did.
I'd like to think they did that deliberately, but I don't know much about the project. Avoids the gongshow AROS has with SATA/gfx cards not working, etc.
That can be easily avoided if you read what is and what is not supported by AROS OR buy one of the two AROS systems that are up for sale if you don't mind new hardware.
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That said hardware is better and cheaper and with better parts/repair support than anything available as new. Hardly a problem I'd say.
Of course there are some that just have to have new HW.
A better business plan than trying to make a brand new motherboard from $1000 chips that are no longer produced, would be to have some custom MorphOS cases made up.
Then buy all the MorphOS compatible Mac computers you can find and put the motherboards in that case.
Magic, a "new" MorphOS machine for people to buy. Cheaper and faster than anything out there. Here's a free idea for a possible case design.
(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/2889/x1morph000s.jpg)
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@ zylesea
Cheers once again, just downloaded the PDF and going to give it a read. You should write a basic introduction to MorphOS for numpties like me, I've learned more about it in your past few posts than I have in my whole time on the net since June of last year... :)
I just did: http://via.i-networx.de/wim.htm
A very brief introduction to MorphOS for ppl knowing the Commodore Amiga 68k. It's very briefrather simple put and probably oversimplified. It comes with a a few screenshots, too.
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I just did: http://via.i-networx.de/wim.htm
A very brief introduction to MorphOS for ppl knowing the Commodore Amiga 68k. It's very briefrather simple put and probably oversimplified. It comes with a a few screenshots, too.
Thank you very much for that, much appreciated... :)
Just had a quick look and even I can understand it, going to read it in full now... :)
Cheers :pint:
Franko
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There is quite good reason: there is no reasonably priced new hardware. On the other hand Macs have one good advantage: it has got the name ;-)
All fine and good - but what if they are no longer available second hand?
After all they aren't in production any longer...
What will MOS run on if this source is dryed out one day?
Are there any plans?
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@ zylesea
Well... even I understood that and things are a lot clearer now... :)
I reckon sometime in the next couple of weeks it'll be time to put these two macs I bought back on ebay and get my money back and buy a Mac that I can use with MorphOS, it would be nice to actually own a Mac that I can get some use out of other than just using it for browsing the net... :)
Once again, thank you... :)
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All fine and good - but what if they are no longer available second hand?
After all they aren't in production any longer...
What will MOS run on if this source is dryed out one day?
Are there any plans?
Now that's kind of a silly question.
Old Amigas haven't dried up on the used market yet, and they're 20+ years old. Lets do the math and figure out how many more G4 Macs were made than Amigas. I figure they'll be around quite a while.
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Now that's kind of a silly question.
Old Amigas haven't dried up on the used market yet, and they're 20+ years old. Lets do the math and figure out how many more G4 Macs were made than Amigas. I figure they'll be around quite a while.
valid point but unless someone starts making magical expansions to these old macs (ala Jens) then they will have the same problems the classics do now in years to come.
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Why is it stinky?
...
Especially if the previous owner was a smoker, the smell is disgusting.
Hehe - the last time I bought a car second hand the owner of one candidate emphasised that the car is a non smoker car to justify the high price.
I told him that I have no use for his car, as I'm a smoker - but I would buy his car if he dropped the price by 1000€ - because of the characterless odour.
His subsequent intelligent physiognomy was simply priceless...
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Now that's kind of a silly question.
Old Amigas haven't dried up on the used market yet, and they're 20+ years old. Lets do the math and figure out how many more G4 Macs were made than Amigas. I figure they'll be around quite a while.
Gotta agree with that, having just spent the past week and a half on ebay there's still plenty old stuff out there if your daft enough to bid on them like me... :)
(even had a phone call from my bank last night as they thought some had stolen my details and had gone on spending spree... :))
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have some custom MorphOS cases made up.
Bleh, butterflies. I propose:
(http://cbmvax.com/morphos.jpg)
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Lol!. I'd buy that if you added "no" to the front as well.......
Bleh, butterflies. I propose:
(http://cbmvax.com/morphos.jpg)
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Lol!. I'd buy that if you added "no" to the front as well.......
:roflmao:
Now with a case like that, if anyone burgled your house, that would sure a hell frighten them away... :)
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Best use of a Mac ever. They make great door stops.
I prefer using one as a foot rest ;)
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I prefer using one as a foot rest ;)
damn I even prefer to look at Piru's mug on a case then see a Mac in my house:lol:
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All fine and good - but what if they are no longer available second hand?
After all they aren't in production any longer...
What will MOS run on if this source is dryed out one day?
Are there any plans?
I would be more worried if only option would be run on custom made new hardware, which are made in very small batches. Then you couldn't be sure at all how long they are available as new. You have to rush to buy one while they can be bought. And when the production stops, there wouldn't be that big used market either. It's a much bigger dead end in my opinion.
For example, Pegasos2 was the biggest success story in the Amiga world within the last 10 years. It would be a real surprise to see some other amigaish system to sell more in the future. Now that it isn't in production any more, which is the easier to get, it or G4 Mac from the same era?
Also there's still newer Mac models (G5) to expand the support. There won't be lack of the hw for very long time. We probably can go like 10 years easily. Macs are also kept very well and they seem to be valuable for their owners. Not even slower G4 models go into trash like standard PC hardware. Mac users appreciate their HW like Amigans do and treat it like that.
And while we are happily using Mac HW for years still, nothing stops developers to look other viable options. If there will be some PPC platform made in big enough quantities from reliable sources, why not. Or moving to some other architecture, why not. But nothing forces to it in near future.
One thing is pretty certain. There isn't much sense to waste time to expand to small custom made systems, which can only be uncertain by their reliability and availability. Look what happened with the original Pegasos1 and AmigaOnes for example. Small players in the industry, small production amounts, short lifetime, lots of bugs and issues to solve and patch. Steady hardware from big manufacturer with big resources like Apple would look much better, wouldn't it? Afterall, Amiga hasn't been about the HW since the old times and can't be in today's world.
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Although as previously stated i do like using Powermac G4's as foot rests, i do also run morphos on mac hardware. I recently bought a nice Quicksilver 2002 - one previous owner, really nice and clean inside and out. As an added bonus it's equipped with a 2Ghz G4 7448.
Just for fun i've got it clocked at 2.13Ghz at the moment. Being able to use third party cpu upgrades in Powermac G4's remind me of the classic Amiga scene with all the different accelerators you can get.
I've owned a brand new Sam440ep with AmigaOS4.1 in the past but I much prefer my second hand mac mini G4 1.5Ghz running MorphOS. It's always nice to own new things but recycling is better for the enviroment ;-)
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Because designing and building new desktop HW for a dead architecture (PPC) in the quantities of 100-200 units is a bad idea, especially if it's worse off than what's already available performance and spec wise, and at 10 times (or more) the cost?
The PPC Macs that MorphOS already supports (or might support in a relatively close future) represents how far the PPC *ever went* on the consumer desktop market. That's the edge, and the end of line. And now when the PPC is gradually fading into history, nothing new will beat those Macs still here.
Would be a far better idea for MorphOS to begin the migration process to ARM, IMHO! ;)
PPCs are hardly dead. They just not common in PC anymore. This summer Freescale will introduce the first two processors based on their new 64bit e5500 core, the single core P5010 and dual core 5020 (both starting at 2.0Ghz). And they've already released a roadmap showing AltiVec enhanced versions of these labeled T5020 and T5040 (presumably dual and quad core) on a 28nm process that should allow them to be faster.
So in the near future we may see new 64bit PPC processors that operates at 50% higher than the PA6T with twice as many cores.
That doesn't sound 'dead' to me.
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NIche and dead may soon be synonyms in Roget's!
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Although as previously stated i do like using Powermac G4's as foot rests, i do also run morphos on mac hardware. I recently bought a nice Quicksilver 2002 - one previous owner, really nice and clean inside and out. As an added bonus it's equipped with a 2Ghz G4 7448.
Just for fun i've got it clocked at 2.13Ghz at the moment. Being able to use third party cpu upgrades in Powermac G4's remind me of the classic Amiga scene with all the different accelerators you can get.
I've owned a brand new Sam440ep with AmigaOS4.1 in the past but I much prefer my second hand mac mini G4 1.5Ghz running MorphOS. It's always nice to own new things but recycling is better for the enviroment ;-)
Wow! That would make that the fastest MorphOS machine outside of the beta G5 testers the development team has.
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PPCs are hardly dead. They just not common in PC anymore. This summer Freescale will introduce the first two processors based on their new 64bit e5500 core, the single core P5010 and dual core 5020 (both starting at 2.0Ghz). And they've already released a roadmap showing AltiVec enhanced versions of these labeled T5020 and T5040 (presumably dual and quad core) on a 28nm process that should allow them to be faster.
So in the near future we may see new 64bit PPC processors that operates at 50% higher than the PA6T with twice as many cores.
That doesn't sound 'dead' to me.
Oh goody, so the X2000(if it happens) will be even more expensive then X1000 :lol:
Meanwhile, mac users can buy NEW G3 and G4 CPU cards for as low as 30$ for their old Macs.
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Crap... those are cheap... :eek:
I've just spent well over £400 on ebay this week buying some spare VIC20s & C64s, I could have bought a bucket load of them Macs for that...
Methinks I'm gonna have to build a bigger house... :)
Franko!! Send some hardware in my direction!! I'm skint over here!!
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Whats the most RAM that the old mac's can take?
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Moar then you need!
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Moar then you need!
Moar RAMz plz :)
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Whats the most RAM that the old mac's can take?
Well "Quicksilver" and "Digital Audio" Powermac G4's can take 1.5GB the rest can take 2GB (i've ignored the "Yikes!" PCI Gfx model). Powermac G5's can take a lot more - my G5 Quad has got 8GB of ram but it can take up to 16GB iirc for example.
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Well "Quicksilver" and "Digital Audio" Powermac G4's can take 1.5GB the rest can take 2GB (i've ignored the "Yikes!" PCI Gfx model). Powermac G5's can take a lot more - my G5 Quad has got 8GB of ram but it can take up to 16GB iirc for example.
Thanks!
So G4 is limited to 2 gigs generally, and G5 is ..well, more than you'd ever need :)
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Dual 1.8Ghz G4 processor
1.5GB RAM
80GB Hard Drive
DVDRW
ATI Radeon 9800
Cost - $100
(http://i54.tinypic.com/2mhu0pc.jpg)
For $100 I do not worry about warranty.
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Dual 1.8Ghz G4 processor
1.5GB RAM
80GB Hard Drive
DVDRW
ATI Radeon 9800
Cost - $100
(http://i54.tinypic.com/2mhu0pc.jpg)
For $100 I do not worry about warranty.
Why don't you use sys:utilities/grabber instead of your camera?
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I agree 100 bucks isn't bad at all for a system. For me, its more a concern of reliability. Computer croaks, and valuable data is either lost or unavailable for a period of time.
Mac's tend to be pretty reliable, but I wouldn't entrust aging hardware to anything valuable. On a hobby basis, you are likely fine of course.
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that's why I back my important data up onto vellum :lol:
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that's why I back my important data up onto vellum :lol:
Personally I prefer hemp rag paper, but its a matter of personal choice.
BTW - MorphOS only supports 1.5 GBs of memory so the extra memory on an MDD or G5 isn't useful.
And that is a nice machine Red.
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Basically I would like to have a new HW, something like Pegasos 3 would be nice. But I know what reality is, how much would that cost.
So I'm very happy with USED Mac HW. It's a nice feeling that you can get it straight away for nearly nothing.
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Why don't you use sys:utilities/grabber instead of your camera?
People might claim I faked it:hammer:
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People might claim I faked it:hammer:
I can't believe that the person that sold you that didn't know that the processor card alone was worth at least two or three times what you paid for the whole system.
Broken down into components, I could sell that machine on Ebay for about $500.
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People might claim I faked it:hammer:
I see, genuineness of a photo. Guess my 2003 discovered *evil bug* gains some credibility then again (dunno if it was fixed with some 2.x release now...):
http://via.i-networx.de/pic/morphos/evil_bug.jpg
;-)
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I can't believe that the person that sold you that didn't know that the processor card alone was worth at least two or three times what you paid for the whole system.
Broken down into components, I could sell that machine on Ebay for about $500.
He was no dummy, but was unaware of the MorphOS crowd's interest in the machine. Actually the computer sat on Craig's list for about a month before I looked and found it. Lucky me, it was still available.