Amiga.org

Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Software Issues and Discussion => Topic started by: runequester on January 28, 2011, 07:28:04 AM

Title: Anywhere to get Ibrowse from?
Post by: runequester on January 28, 2011, 07:28:04 AM
not having much luck with google. Does anyone have either a working download link for the last free version of Ibrowse, or would anyone be able to send it to me?
Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: Anywhere to get Ibrowse from?
Post by: Piru on January 28, 2011, 07:42:30 AM
Quote from: runequester;610059
Does anyone have either a working download link for the last free version of Ibrowse
http://www.amigafuture.de/downloads.php?view=detail&df_id=720
Title: Re: Anywhere to get Ibrowse from?
Post by: runequester on January 28, 2011, 03:11:58 PM
Thank you kindly
Title: Re: Anywhere to get Ibrowse from?
Post by: TCMSLP on January 28, 2011, 03:58:55 PM
This is the demo which times out after 30 minutes, correct?

If there's a 'free' as in 'free' one without this restriction I'd be interested too!
Title: Re: Anywhere to get Ibrowse from?
Post by: Thomas on January 28, 2011, 04:05:51 PM
There never was a free version of IBrowse. In fact IBrowse is the name of the commercial version of AMosaic.
Title: Re: Anywhere to get Ibrowse from?
Post by: Franko on January 28, 2011, 04:20:14 PM
On my OS3.5 CD there is a fully working version of AWeb but having never used it I'm not sure if you need to have 3.5 installed on your machine for it to work... :)
Title: Re: Anywhere to get Ibrowse from?
Post by: rockersuke on January 28, 2011, 04:40:05 PM
Quote from: Franko;610275
On my OS3.5 CD there is a fully working version of AWeb but having never used it I'm not sure if you need to have 3.5 installed on your machine for it to work... :)


I'm using Aweb 3.5.9 beta in my 3.1 setup. Slow as hell, but fully functional. Images and javascript plug-ins seem to require an FPU, as they work OK in my A1200 with Blizzard 030 MKIV and FPU but crash the whole machine in my 3.1 FPU-less ACA630 accelerated Amiga 600. Turning those plug-ins off solved the issue, but I'd like to take a look at Ibrowse anyway.

--
Title: Re: Anywhere to get Ibrowse from?
Post by: runequester on January 28, 2011, 04:45:41 PM
Quote from: rockersuke;610281
I'm using Aweb 3.5.9 beta in my 3.1 setup. Slow as hell, but fully functional. Images and javascript plug-ins seem to require an FPU, as they work OK in my A1200 with Blizzard 030 MKIV and FPU but crash the whole machine in my 3.1 FPU-less ACA630 accelerated Amiga 600. Turning those plug-ins off solved the issue, but I'd like to take a look at Ibrowse anyway.

--


yeah, aweb crashes on my 3.1 machine if images are enabled.
WIth them disabled, its pretty quick.

Ibrowse seems to play nicer with that stuff, though its a bit pokey on my 030. Fully usable though, and its nice to have the option.
Title: Re: Anywhere to get Ibrowse from?
Post by: Franko on January 28, 2011, 04:47:16 PM
Quote from: rockersuke;610281
I'm using Aweb 3.5.9 beta in my 3.1 setup. Slow as hell, but fully functional. Images and javascript plug-ins seem to require an FPU, as they work OK in my A1200 with Blizzard 030 MKIV and FPU but crash the whole machine in my 3.1 FPU-less ACA630 accelerated Amiga 600. Turning those plug-ins off solved the issue, but I'd like to take a look at Ibrowse anyway.

--


Having just recently finished disassembling AWeb into 68K source code I have already noticed plenty of scope for improving/optimising the code. It was originally written in C and so is a bit bloated and not as efficient as it could be, I really need to start with the optimisations and give the newly compiled code to someone to test (until I finally get a my own miggies on the net)... :)
Title: Re: Anywhere to get Ibrowse from?
Post by: runequester on January 28, 2011, 04:48:11 PM
I'll happily test :)
Title: Re: Anywhere to get Ibrowse from?
Post by: Franko on January 28, 2011, 04:51:42 PM
Quote from: runequester;610287
I'll happily test :)


Well as soon as I've optimised it and checked it out I'll send it you to test out...:)

Interesting what you say about the crashes on 3.1, wonder if it can trace that problem in the source code now... :)
Title: Re: Anywhere to get Ibrowse from?
Post by: runequester on January 28, 2011, 04:53:21 PM
Quote from: Franko;610289
Well as soon as I've optimised it and checked it out I'll send it you to test out...:)

Interesting what you say about the crashes on 3.1, wonder if it can trace that problem in the source code now... :)


It could be down to me lacking datatypes for images or whatnot, as it only occurs with images enabled.
Title: Re: Anywhere to get Ibrowse from?
Post by: Franko on January 28, 2011, 05:09:38 PM
Quote from: runequester;610291
It could be down to me lacking datatypes for images or whatnot, as it only occurs with images enabled.


When I first installed OS3.5 AWeb was part of the installation even though my miggies aren't on the net I did try it out with some Amiga Format coverdisk CDs browsing locally (I think you call it)... :)

It never crashed but it was very slow at drawing pages even on my 2 060 boards, I deleted it a long time ago but I think I'll install it on one of my 030 machines with OS3.1 and test it with the Amiga Format coverdisks to see if I can reproduce these crashes and figure out what's causing them... :)
Title: Re: Anywhere to get Ibrowse from?
Post by: TheGoose on January 28, 2011, 05:19:17 PM
Quote from: Franko;610286
Having just recently finished disassembling AWeb into 68K source code I have already noticed plenty of scope for improving/optimising the code. It was originally written in C and so is a bit bloated and not as efficient as it could be, I really need to start with the optimisations and give the newly compiled code to someone to test (until I finally get a my own miggies on the net)... :)



I could test it from this side of the pond too Franko, I have been using Aweb lately.
Title: Re: Anywhere to get Ibrowse from?
Post by: TCMSLP on January 28, 2011, 05:30:18 PM
It must be incredibly difficult to disassemble something originally written in C and understand what it's doing.   Years ago I tried compiling the most basic of C programs then looking at the disassembled output and it seemed to make even basic code a hugely complex mess (at least to my puny human brain).  Trying to understand software you've not written and with the complexity of a web browser must take quite some doing!
Title: Re: Anywhere to get Ibrowse from?
Post by: Franko on January 28, 2011, 05:41:31 PM
@ TheGoose

No problemo, best if as many folk as possible can test it in case I make any mistakes while optimising it, no idea though how long it will take me though as being originally written in C the codes pretty messy... :)

@ TCMSLP

It's really quite simple enough to do, more time consuming than anything else, just a simple case of reverse engineering and tracing all the subroutines. That's one of the main reasons I don't code in C too inefficient especially with all those unneeded jumps & subroutines C code produces... :)

Even though I know nothing about Web Browsers it's like disassembling any piece of code, you don't really have to know what it's use is, your just simply looking to make the code more efficient and tidy it all up wee bit... :)
Title: Re: Anywhere to get Ibrowse from?
Post by: desiv on January 28, 2011, 05:53:01 PM
There's a version of AWeb included in ClassicWB, which I just put on my A1200 with an ACA1230/28.
Not home, so I don't know which version it is now..
But I use it and iBrowse to view websites (mostly google/aminet) and it doesn't crash on me with Images enabled...

desiv
Title: Re: Anywhere to get Ibrowse from?
Post by: Matt_H on January 28, 2011, 06:18:06 PM
Quote from: runequester;610291
It could be down to me lacking datatypes for images or whatnot, as it only occurs with images enabled.


If you're using a stock 3.1 install, you might need the updated picture.datatype (http://aminet.net/package/util/dtype/ams).
Title: Re: Anywhere to get Ibrowse from?
Post by: rockersuke on January 28, 2011, 06:32:00 PM
Just to give you a hint where to look at or what to look for:

Using Aweb 3.5.8 (included in Amigakit Easynet wireless kit) and Aweb 3.5.9 (recently linked at EAB forums, sadly Aweb site seem to be down for good ^_^'):

-In my KS 3.1 + WB 3.1 Amiga 600 accelerated with a non-FPU ACA630 card it crashes with Guru 8000000B whenever images and/or javascript plug-ins are enabled (but works like a charm otherwise)

-In my KS 3.1 + WB 3.1 Amiga 1200 accelerated with a Blizzard MKIV 68030 card, which has an FPU, It never crashes and I can browse happily with images and javascript enabled.

8000000B guru is ussually associated with program trying to do FPU instructions when there is no one present.

So it could be some FPU-related issue (just a guess, anyway).

--
Title: Re: Anywhere to get Ibrowse from?
Post by: runequester on January 28, 2011, 06:32:57 PM
thanks for the datatype link. I'll check if that helps any
Title: Re: Anywhere to get Ibrowse from?
Post by: TheGoose on January 28, 2011, 06:48:20 PM
For me, the accepting of 500 cookies per page load keeps me pretty busy in Aweb, and I love me some cookies, but this is more troublesome than any graphics loading...

I have to to get a registered "full" version. Check my 3.5 disc...

gobble gobble gobble...

:lol:
Title: Re: Anywhere to get Ibrowse from?
Post by: stefcep2 on January 29, 2011, 11:54:12 AM
Wasn't the source code for Aweb released as PD?
Title: Re: Anywhere to get Ibrowse from?
Post by: drHirudo on January 29, 2011, 12:00:19 PM
Quote from: TCMSLP;610259
This is the demo which times out after 30 minutes, correct?

If there's a 'free' as in 'free' one without this restriction I'd be interested too!


You receive free OEM version (slightly restricted) of IBrowse 2.4 with the AmigaOS 4 CD. I use it since I purchased AmigaOS 4.1 back in September 2008. There are several restrictions though:
Five browser windows or browser tabs
Eight simultaneous connections
Four search bar entries
HTTP, FTP and file loading only.

I uploaded over HTTP many files, so I am not sure what the last restrictions means.
Title: Re: Anywhere to get Ibrowse from?
Post by: Franko on January 29, 2011, 12:10:00 PM
Quote from: stefcep2;610483
Wasn't the source code for Aweb released as PD?


Yes, someone here pointed me towards it a wee while back but it was C source code... :(
Title: Re: Anywhere to get Ibrowse from?
Post by: tone007 on January 29, 2011, 12:34:46 PM
Quote from: drHirudo;610484
HTTP, FTP and file loading only.

I uploaded over HTTP many files, so I am not sure what the last restrictions means.


Maybe they meant no Gopher!
Title: Re: Anywhere to get Ibrowse from?
Post by: drHirudo on January 29, 2011, 12:39:30 PM
Gopher? Anyone uses this?
Title: Re: Anywhere to get Ibrowse from?
Post by: tone007 on January 29, 2011, 12:42:23 PM
Quote from: Wikipedia
Although largely supplanted by the Web in the years following, the Gopher protocol is still in use by enthusiasts, and a small population of actively-maintained servers remains.

Not really anymore, but maybe it was still a going concern when iBrowse was in vogue!
Title: Re: Anywhere to get Ibrowse from?
Post by: drHirudo on January 29, 2011, 12:49:07 PM
It seems that the only way to legally have somewhat unrestricted version of IBrowse is to purchase AmigaOS 4.

Code: [Select]

7.Workbench:Utilities/IBrowse> version IBrowse FULL
IBrowse 24.43 (22.12.2006)
Title: Re: Anywhere to get Ibrowse from?
Post by: Franko on January 29, 2011, 12:59:58 PM
Quote from: drHirudo;610504
It seems that the only way to legally have somewhat unrestricted version of IBrowse is to purchase AmigaOS 4.

Code: [Select]

7.Workbench:Utilities/IBrowse> version IBrowse FULL
IBrowse 24.43 (22.12.2006)


Just popped OS4.0 into this Macs CD drive (didn't even realise it was on there) and one of the docs says this

Quote
*** 22-Dec-06 IBrowse 2.4 released to the public ***
*** 22-Dec-06 IBrowse 2.4 OEM built for AmigaOS4 ***

-sb- Misc master password fixes to avoid displaying the passwords when not
      authorized to do so

-sb- BUGID 1524: Master password can now be set multiple times during a
      session

-sb- BUGID 1523: Fixed a potential security hole with repeated chars as
      master password

-or- Don't show a second consecutive master password requester when
      submitting a form when there's already a password entry for the site

-or- BUGID 1525: Fixed image icons in the images dir not being freed
      after reading


Does that mean IBrowse is PD now cos if so then anybody want a copy... :)
Title: Re: Anywhere to get Ibrowse from?
Post by: cv643d on January 29, 2011, 03:06:15 PM
Franko: can you diassemble OS4.1 and convert it to x86?
Title: Re: Anywhere to get Ibrowse from?
Post by: Franko on January 29, 2011, 03:09:00 PM
Quote from: cv643d;610546
Franko: can you diassemble OS4.1 and convert it to x86?


Nope... I don't have OS4.1 and haven't got a clue what x86 is... :)
Title: Re: Anywhere to get Ibrowse from?
Post by: Crumb on January 29, 2011, 04:05:09 PM
@Franko

AWeb is open source, here you have original sources:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~yrozijn/aweb/

There are updated and bugfixed sources somewhere, it used to be at aweb.sunsite.dk but the server died and nobody uploaded the sources to sourceforge so I guess it's dead forever.
Title: Re: Anywhere to get Ibrowse from?
Post by: Franko on January 29, 2011, 04:09:40 PM
Quote from: Crumb;610575
@Franko

AWeb is open source, here you have original sources:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~yrozijn/aweb/

There are updated and bugfixed sources somewhere, it used to be at aweb.sunsite.dk but the server died and nobody uploaded the sources to sourceforge so I guess it's dead forever.


Cheers Crumb, but I've already downloaded them and their written in C, I only code in 68k... :)
Title: Re: Anywhere to get Ibrowse from?
Post by: drHirudo on January 29, 2011, 08:08:01 PM
Quote from: Franko;610576
Cheers Crumb, but I've already downloaded them and their written in C, I only code in 68k... :)

Hehe, C is a language, 68K, you probably meant the 68000 series of processors by Motorola (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_68000)?
You can not code in 68K, there is no such language.
The assembler language for 680x0 is very easy to write and understand and the best assembly language that I have used, with great opcodes (I coded in Z80, 6502, 65816 and x86 assembler as well).

But....

If you have the original C sources, disassembling the compiled code and then making optimizations by hand is useless job that will very little gain.

Better recompile the C sources with newer compiler, make switches for more optimizations (VBCC on Amiga68K is the best compiler I used for optimizations). If you still feel that the C source code is slow, you can replace C parts with inline assembler parts that you think you can improve. Slowly replacing them, you may end up some day in entirely written in assembler browser. But disassembling and recompiling - its mostly a waste of time, especially when you have the source code.
Title: Re: Anywhere to get Ibrowse from?
Post by: Franko on January 29, 2011, 08:22:57 PM
Quote from: drHirudo;610643
Hehe, C is a language, 68K, you probably meant the 68000 series of processors by Motorola (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_68000)?
You can not code in 68K, there is no such language.
The assembler language for 680x0 is very easy to write and understand and the best assembly language that I have used, with great opcodes (I coded in Z80, 6502, 65816 and x86 assembler as well).

But....

If you have the original C sources, disassembling the compiled code and then making optimizations by hand is useless job that will very little gain.

Better recompile the C sources with newer compiler, make switches for more optimizations (VBCC on Amiga68K is the best compiler I used for optimizations). If you still feel that the C source code is slow, you can replace C parts with inline assembler parts that you think you can improve. Slowly replacing them, you may end up some day in entirely written in assembler browser. But disassembling and recompiling - its mostly a waste of time, especially when you have the source code.


I know but there are many different versions of "Assembler" langauge so I simply call it 68k or M68K as most Amigans will know what I'm talking about... :)

Wouldn't touch C with a barge pole, no matter how much the compiler optimises it you still end up with code that's bloated and inefficient in my opinion. Disagree that you think disassembling and recompiling is a waste of time, it is necessary for me when the original source code is only available in C.

The whole point of doing this is once you have disassembled the actual code for someone who only codes in 68K (and I'll keep using that term cos I like it ;)) it's then easy to study the code and optimise/replace/debug or even add new features to the original software and then end result is highly optimised code which generally runs faster than the original C compiled version :)
Title: Re: Anywhere to get Ibrowse from?
Post by: drHirudo on January 29, 2011, 08:30:45 PM
Quote from: Franko;610651
I know but there are many different versions of "Assembler" langauge so I simply call it 68k or M68K as most Amigans will know what I'm talking about... :)

Wouldn't touch C with a barge pole, no matter how much the compiler optimises it you still end up with code that's bloated and inefficient in my opinion. Disagree that you think disassembling and recompiling is a waste of time, it is necessary for me when the original source code is only available in C.

The whole point of doing this is once you have disassembled the actual code for someone who only codes in 68K (and I'll keep using that term cos I like it ;)) it's then easy to study the code and optimise/replace/debug or even add new features to the original software and then end result is highly optimised code which generally runs faster than the original C compiled version :)

When the C produces bloated code, you can replace specific parts of the source code with native assembler instructions (inline assembly). I used it a lot when coding for Apple 2 with the CC65 cross compiler. In some situations I end with full source code in assembler, that started as nicely written C program, but was too slow for 6502 processor :)
Title: Re: Anywhere to get Ibrowse from?
Post by: Franko on January 29, 2011, 08:42:52 PM
Quote from: drHirudo;610653
When the C produces bloated code, you can replace specific parts of the source code with native assembler instructions (inline assembly). I used it a lot when coding for Apple 2 with the CC65 cross compiler. In some situations I end with full source code in assembler, that started as nicely written C program, but was too slow for 6502 processor :)

Just don't like C, to me there is no point in mixing the two (C & Assembler) as I only write stuff for the Amiga and have no interest in any other platform then to me coding in 68K is the best way to go as I don't need to have code that can be easily recompiled for use on another platform... :)

(Plus to me coding in Assembler on the Amiga is far more easy than any other langauge... :))
Title: Re: Anywhere to get Ibrowse from?
Post by: drHirudo on January 29, 2011, 08:51:59 PM
Quote from: Franko;610659
Just don't like C, to me there is no point in mixing the two (C & Assembler) as I only write stuff for the Amiga and have no interest in any other platform then to me coding in 68K is the best way to go as I don't need to have code that can be easily recompiled for use on another platform... :)

(Plus to me coding in Assembler on the Amiga is far more easy than any other langauge... :))


I used to advocate the Assembler a lot, few years ago. The I switched to C and still use Assembler, but C is better for the following reasons:

C is universal - no matter if you write for CP/M, Gameboy, Apple II, Amiga, AmigaOne, Windows or Apple Mac. The C syntax is still the same. In some cases you even use the same compiler. I have coded for all these platforms in C and had much less troubles than when writing for these platforms in Assembler.
C is high portable. I wrote a game eight years ago in C for Amigas with 680x0 processor. Later I easily ported it to Amigas with PPC processors, Apple Macs and Windows! I can easily port it to IPhone, Symbian, QNX and Linux if I wanted to. If it was not in C, I would had a hard time porting it in to all these platforms.
C is easy to find. You can easily find books on C and no matter if it is for Windows, you can learn from it for your Amiga programming projects.
C is very close to the the Assembler. Its so close that you can easily skip assembler and go for C and have the same programming power at hand, only easier and better.
C is easy to spell. You can not misspell it like the asssembler.
Title: Re: Anywhere to get Ibrowse from?
Post by: Franko on January 29, 2011, 09:05:26 PM
Quote from: drHirudo;610664
I used to advocate the Assembler a lot, few years ago. The I switched to C and still use Assembler, but C is better for the following reasons:

C is universal - no matter if you write for CP/M, Gameboy, Apple II, Amiga, AmigaOne, Windows or Apple Mac. The C syntax is still the same. In some cases you even use the same compiler. I have coded for all these platforms in C and had much less troubles than when writing for these platforms in Assembler.
C is high portable. I wrote a game eight years ago in C for Amigas with 680x0 processor. Later I easily ported it to Amigas with PPC processors, Apple Macs and Windows! I can easily port it to IPhone, Symbian, QNX and Linux if I wanted to. If it was not in C, I would had a hard time porting it in to all these platforms.
C is easy to find. You can easily find books on C and no matter if it is for Windows, you can learn from it for your Amiga programming projects.
C is very close to the the Assembler. Its so close that you can easily skip assembler and go for C and have the same programming power at hand, only easier and better.
C is easy to spell. You can not misspell it like the asssembler.


As I've already said it doesn't matter to me that C is "Universal" I only code for the Amiga, C64 & VIC20 and have no need, wish or interest to write code that can be easily transferred across different platforms... :)

Assembler language is easy to find too... :)

C is nowhere near close to assembler, C is for folk who can't be bothered or don't have the time to learn a machine specific assembler language or for folk who specifically want to make their code portable and I have nothing against that , it's just not the language for me that's all... :)

I seriously doubt no one ever make a spelling mistake when writing in C, just as I occasionally makes mistakes when coding in assembler but what does it matter the compiler soon tells you you've made an error... :)

I've been coding in Assembler since I got my first VIC20 in 82 and over the years have tried C, Fortran etc... etc... and my personal choice for coding is Assembler, no point in trying to convince me otherwise, it's just my own personal preference... :)
Title: Re: Anywhere to get Ibrowse from?
Post by: runequester on January 30, 2011, 04:44:45 AM
Quote from: Franko;610547
Nope... I don't have OS4.1 and haven't got a clue what x86 is... :)


x86 is the normal term used for intel/amd processor based systems. The general PC (and mac's nowadays).

IBM compatible / clone as they were called back when you were only 120 years old. :)
Title: Re: Anywhere to get Ibrowse from?
Post by: Khephren on January 30, 2011, 05:09:51 PM
C is great for portability, and the code bloat/speed penalty isn't so noticable on Ghz machines. But for the Amiga, assembler is always going to give a code size/speed advantage in the right hands. god knows Amiga browsers need all the help they can get!
Title: Re: Anywhere to get Ibrowse from?
Post by: Franko on January 30, 2011, 05:37:03 PM
Quote from: runequester;610758
x86 is the normal term used for intel/amd processor based systems. The general PC (and mac's nowadays).

IBM compatible / clone as they were called back when you were only 120 years old. :)


Well why cant you just say "IBM compatible / clone" in the first place... much easier to understand... :)

Anyway cheeky young whippersnapper I was only in my late 80s back then... ;)

I'd hit you with me zimmer frame if only I had the strength to lift it... :)

Now where'd I park me steam engine... :D
Title: Re: Anywhere to get Ibrowse from?
Post by: polyp2000 on March 09, 2011, 11:48:09 AM
Did you find out what was causing the crashes?
I have the same problem. Id try a different browser but I have no idea which is the best alternative to iWeb. Cant find iBrowse for download anywhere.
Title: Re: Anywhere to get Ibrowse from?
Post by: mfilos on March 09, 2011, 12:10:19 PM
iBrowse can be found here: http://www.ibrowse-dev.net/download.php
The craches occur in AWeb version 3.5+ where I assume it requires an FPU.
If you check it under WinUAE without FPU it will crash as well. If you enable FPU it will run just fine.
Datatypes (at least in my case) had nothing to do with. I even installed my licenced WarpDT datatypes with no better result.

One option is to stick with AWeb 3.4 that is included as well in ClassicWB packages.
Title: Re: Anywhere to get Ibrowse from?
Post by: runequester on March 09, 2011, 05:00:08 PM
I ended up just using Ibrowse instead, and that works great.
Title: Re: Anywhere to get Ibrowse from?
Post by: nicholas on March 09, 2011, 05:54:50 PM
Quote from: Crumb;610575
@Franko

AWeb is open source, here you have original sources:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~yrozijn/aweb/

There are updated and bugfixed sources somewhere, it used to be at aweb.sunsite.dk but the server died and nobody uploaded the sources to sourceforge so I guess it's dead forever.


Et voila! :)

http://replay.waybackmachine.org/20090415165528/http://aweb.sunsite.dk/