Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: Graham1982 on January 17, 2011, 04:02:00 PM
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Hi:
This is my first post on this site. I am an avid Amiga fan having owned an A500, A600 and A1200 whilst growing up in the 90s.
I am looking at getting an A1500 to re-live my computing youth and there appears to be a good offer on one at the moment - system, monitor and tonnes of software for £100.
My idea is that I will buy this, junk/sell on the original monitor and connect it to my flat screen with an adaptor.
My questions relate to the technical limitations of the A1500 - I know it is an old machine yet that it was marketed as a business machine also, thus whilst it will not run AGA games, is it feasible that I could update the kickstart rom, install a HD, possibly even a CD drive, more RAM etc piece-meal or not really?
Can these be networked via a suitable ethenet adaptor for the internet?
Yes I know that I should buy an A4000 but I cannot justify the expense for something that is basically going to be a toy.
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You can update the 1500 quite a bit, so yeah, go for it!
You'll need to hunt down an accelerator card that gives you SCSI or IDE interface, but that way, hard drive and CD ROM are very possible.
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Unless you're talking about the Checkmate A1500 (http://www.amiga-hardware.com/showhardware.cgi?HARDID=6) (a desktop-conversion kit for the A500,) the Amiga 1500 is just a 2000 minus the hard drive plus a second floppy, so that should be a "yes" to all the above.
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Hi:
Thanks for the prompt replies - I will take the plunge.
With regards to SCSI - I know nothing of this standard - I understand that an expansion board will need to be bought (are these available on here or ebay readily?). Also would the Amiga recognise IDE drives and could I recycle PC IDE drives?
Thanks
Graham
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You can use IDE stuff and its likely to be cheaper and easier to find. SCSI was a big thing in the period the amiga was around.
Either way though, you'll need an expansion card though.
I'd check the trade forum here and on amibay http://www.amibay.com/ and Im sure someone can sort you out.
Other things to look for are some sort of accelerator / RAM upgrade. Some will include IDE or SCSI interfaces, some don't.
Whats the end goals of the machine? What do you want to do on it?
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Any Amiga 2000 cards (called Zorro 2) will fit in it. It also has an 86 pin CPU upgrade slot.
If you find an RTG (graphics) card as well I believe you can play most of the AGA games too.
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Hi:
Don't really have an end goal for the machine - I would like to play some of the games from my past on it such as It Came From The Desert and Cruise for A Corpse.
Other than that if it is possible to use it as one would use an Ipad - i.e. to browse Facebook and news sites it would be quite novel. I use PCs for work and wouldn't dream of trying to replace a PC with an Amiga for real work.
Expansion cards were well out of my price range when I had a 1200 - but now are cheap enough - what is the potential amount of RAM that one can install in a 1500 and does it come to a point where the benefits are negligible?
Thanks
Graham
PS Sorry if this is a silly question but if I tried to run Workench 3.0 on a machine without updating the Kickstart I guess it just won't work?
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Any Amiga 2000 cards (called Zorro 2) will fit in it. It also has an 86 pin CPU upgrade slot.
If you find an RTG (graphics) card as well I believe you can play most of the AGA games too.
Can someone confirm or deny this? Cos this would be a game (pardon the pun :D ) changer for me.
EDIT: the AGA part, not the Zorro II part :roflmao:
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Only an AGA machine can play AGA games.
If you have a graphics card (one that uses picasso96 or cybergraphics) you can play games that use utlise those two RTG systems.
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Hi:
I imagine you cannot take the AGA out of a A1200 and put it in the 1500 - that would be far too simple.
Thanks
Graham
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Hi:
Don't really have an end goal for the machine - I would like to play some of the games from my past on it such as It Came From The Desert and Cruise for A Corpse.
Other than that if it is possible to use it as one would use an Ipad - i.e. to browse Facebook and news sites it would be quite novel. I use PCs for work and wouldn't dream of trying to replace a PC with an Amiga for real work.
hi, & welcome :)
unfortunately cruising the net on an old ECS/OCS classic like the 1500 won't be much fun today...I suggest you keep it as a retro games machine and play around with workbench etc.
If you want a more modern Amiga experience then you'll have to get into new or used hardware such as a PegII, Sam440ep/flex etc. that can run the latest AmigaOS4.1 update 2 (all these options would probably be cheaper than getting an A4000 with PPC card)
You can also try out AROS which is an Amiga inspired OS that runs on many x86 PC's. If you have an old Mac lying around then you might want to try out MorphOS. Anyhow you have quite a bit of options if you want to try the more modern route else just enjoy the retro goodness:afro:
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I imagine you cannot take the AGA out of a A1200 and put it in the 1500 - that would be far too simple.
Yep that would be far to simple but would be nice if it could be done ;)
Well if you are after a AGA Amiga 1200 you could always purchase a refurbished one from amigakit.com for 117.43 GBP, with the options to upgrade the Rom etc. Also check Amibay.com you will find prices alot more resonable :D avoid ebay if you can, and I wish you luck.
Or you can even run an Amiga emulated on Windows (WINUAE) http://www.winuae.net/
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Check here for RTG games:
http://hol.abime.net/hol_search.php?&af=A&N_ref_hardware=16 (http://hol.abime.net/hol_search.php?&af=A&N_ref_hardware=16)
The max RAM is 9MB.
You should be able to do pretty much anything except the internet on 5MB.
Memory that's in a zorro 2 slot/card will be 16-bit (slower). Memory on a CPU card will be 32-bit.
I think if you have a 68040 or 68060 they can have 128MB RAM on them.
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Hi:
Could someone paraphrase the recent Amiga developments for me please? I am still going to get the 1500 but am I right in suggesting that any new Amiga is a machine that effectively emulates an Amiga like how you can run windows on Macs now?
Thanks
Graham
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Hi:
This is my first post on this site. I am an avid Amiga fan having owned an A500, A600 and A1200 whilst growing up in the 90s.
I am looking at getting an A1500 to re-live my computing youth and there appears to be a good offer on one at the moment - system, monitor and tonnes of software for £100.
My idea is that I will buy this, junk/sell on the original monitor and connect it to my flat screen with an adaptor.
My questions relate to the technical limitations of the A1500 - I know it is an old machine yet that it was marketed as a business machine also, thus whilst it will not run AGA games, is it feasible that I could update the kickstart rom, install a HD, possibly even a CD drive, more RAM etc piece-meal or not really?
Can these be networked via a suitable ethenet adaptor for the internet?
Yes I know that I should buy an A4000 but I cannot justify the expense for something that is basically going to be a toy.
100GBP for the lot seems to be a fair price, but you should consider whether your main interest is the computer itself or the old games. For the latter I think (Win)UAE is the way more convenient solution - you can play virtually everything more or less everywhere.
But if you mainly like to tinker around with the old gear I'd say go for it.
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Hi:
Yes I have used win UAE, there is just osmething about old machines that I like - I know it is both messy and annoying but for me there is nothing quite like using old gear.
Thanks
Graham
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Hi:
Could someone paraphrase the recent Amiga developments for me please? I am still going to get the 1500 but am I right in suggesting that any new Amiga is a machine that effectively emulates an Amiga like how you can run windows on Macs now?
Thanks
Graham
- UAE: software emulator for Commodore 68k Amiga (runs virtually everywhere and everything) (free, but you need ROM files)
- AROS: x86 (and 68k, ARM, ppc) operating system featuring a reimplemenation and extension to the Commodore AmigaOS API. Not binary compatible to 68k applications itself, but comes with a tight UAE intergartion (free)
- MorphOS: ppc operating system featuring a reimplemenation and extension to the Commodore AmigaOS API. Binary compatible to 68k Amiga applications (as long as they don't hit the custom chips). Improved in many ways over Commodre Amiga OS 3.x Runs on many G4 Macs and some other ppc boards. Demo is free, registration is 111 EUR.
- OS4 by Hyperion: ppc operating system featuring a reimplemenation/recompilation and extension to the Commodore AmigaOS API. Binary compatible to 68k Amiga applications (as long as they don't hit the custom chips). Requires custom hardware. No demo available, costs about 150 EUR.
Edit: forgot the fpga solutions, see next post for that.
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I think if you have a 68040 or 68060 they can have 128MB RAM on them.
The actual memory expansion capacity depends on the specific accelerator card, but even an 020 or 030 is capable of addressing more than the Zorro II maximum.
Could someone paraphrase the recent Amiga developments for me please? I am still going to get the 1500 but am I right in suggesting that any new Amiga is a machine that effectively emulates an Amiga like how you can run windows on Macs now?
To paraphrase recent Amiga developments: GRARRR SNARL SNEER FLAME.
To be a little more specific about it, there's a number of different camps all doing their own thing, each with a number of loony zealot followers that spend a lot of time bickering about which one is the True Amiga. Specifically, they are:
- The "FPGA-based reconstruction" camp with the Minimig and NatAmi projects, which focus on building new (and, in NatAmi's case, upgraded) hardware that's compatible with the oldschool 680x0-based Amigas. Can run 68k Amiga software natively.
- The PowerPC camp, which focuses on running Amiga-based modern operating systems on PPC-based hardware like pre-Intel Macs and the upcoming X1000 board. Due to the nature of the PPC, 68k Amiga code can run natively, but as zylesea noted, it has to play nice and not do low-level hardware manipulation (as the Amiga hardware is not actually present.) For stuff that doesn't follow those rules (various games and demos, mostly) you'd have to use an emulator.
- The x86 camp, which focuses on running Amiga-based modern operating systems on standard Intel PC hardware. Cannot run 68k Amiga software natively.
- Commodore USA, the current (claimed) owners of the Amiga name, who are developing an x86-based PC on which they plan to run a Linux distro that's re-skinned to look like Workbench. Cannot run 68k Amiga software natively.
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Hi:
Could someone paraphrase the recent Amiga developments for me please? I am still going to get the 1500 but am I right in suggesting that any new Amiga is a machine that effectively emulates an Amiga like how you can run windows on Macs now?
Thanks
Graham
Old Amigans run old software on the original 'Classic' machines. Some upgrade their machines with new processor/RAM/HDD (or compact flash) CD-ROM for demanding software/games.
MorphOS
Users use a heavily inspired by AmigaOS system, that uses emulation for older software. There is dedicated hardware available, and it will run on some old powermacs.
AmigaOS 4
is the official AmigaOS. It too is PowerPC based, it It runs on dedicated hardware,
and Emulates classic hardware. A version is available for classic machines with PowerPC upgrade cards.
WinUAE/UAE
is the main emulator for for running 'classic' (68000 based) Amiga software on many platforms.
AROS
is an OS based on Workbench 3.1, but all code is written from scratch, it's open, and runs on several platforms. It runs classic software through Emulation.
Worthy mentions:
NATami:
not out yet, but will be a new (fairly?) compatible machine, but with upgraded specs, and upgraded Amiga chips. will run 'classic' Amiga software, and software written for it.
MiniMig:
Like the above, but not as powerfull, but available now, and not that expensive. Runs 'classic' software.
I've probably missed stuff, but i'm sure i'll get corrected soon...!
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To be a little more specific about it, there's a number of different camps all doing their own thing, each with a number of loony zealot followers that spend a lot of time bickering about which one is the True Amiga. Specifically, they are:
Need to insert that OS4, AROS, MorphOS chart to give you an idea of how the camps view each other ... :laughing:
I would but i cant find it :(
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Need to insert that OS4, AROS, MorphOS chart to give you an idea of how the camps view each other ... :laughing:
I would but i cant find it :(
here it is;)..hilarious..love the big brother, little brother analogy..."i told you Mikey..you can't touch MY stuff"
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Hi:
Rather than create a new thread - didn't get 1500 it was too difficult to transport (I don't drive).
Is all of the above still true for an Amiga 2000 - I have the opportunity to buy one of these, is it worth it better/worse than 1500.
pros/cons
Graham
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I'm sure the 2000 is a 1500 only with a HD (probably SCSI). If available for a similar figure I'd grab it.
Everyone else: Do 2000's have onboard batteries? If so - worth checking it hasn't leaked and corroded the motherboard.
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Everyone else: Do 2000's have onboard batteries? If so - worth checking it hasn't leaked and corroded the motherboard.
Yes, and the majority I've opened over the past 3 years have leaked.
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Yes, pretty much the same. The 1500 would have had more bragging rights since it's far rarer, but from a user perspective there's no difference.
Hi:
Rather than create a new thread - didn't get 1500 it was too difficult to transport (I don't drive).
Is all of the above still true for an Amiga 2000 - I have the opportunity to buy one of these, is it worth it better/worse than 1500.
pros/cons
Graham
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The 1500 is just a 2000 configured slightly differently so it'd be awesome too
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You will like this... My Amiga 1500 called Graham. Seriously
http://www.commodore-amiga-retro.com/amiga/amiga_scuzz222.htm
There really is no difference other than the twin floppies. The machine was created, some say, in response to the A1500 Checkmate and only I believe for the UK market.
http://www.commodore-amiga-retro.com/amiga/amiga_scuzz20.htm
http://www.commodore-amiga-retro.com/amiga/amiga_scuzz109.htm
Amiga 2000HD
http://www.commodore-amiga-retro.com/amiga/amiga_scuzz181.htm
Checkmate
http://www.commodore-amiga-retro.com/amiga/amiga_scuzz86.htm
Personally I would get an Amiga 1200.
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Hi:
I can't wait to get hold of the 2000 now and those pictures look really good and will be helpful in the setup of my system.
I imagine that as I do not have an AGA chipset in a 2000 and will not therefore be playing top end games such as Gloom etc, loads of RAM is not necessary?
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Probably not, unless you're looking to do power-user type stuff. I'd bet that 1MB chip + 1-2MB fast RAM should suffice.
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I cant imagine anything that'd require more than 8 megs of fast RAM, and you could probably get by fine with 4