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Coffee House => Coffee House Boards => CH / General => Topic started by: Franko on January 03, 2011, 11:08:21 PM
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Just been watching a documentary on Discovery Science entitled "I Videogame", it was about the history of video games from the beginnings to the present day.
It features interviews with the like of Peter Molyneux (creator of Populous), Sid Mieir (athour of Civilisation), Will Right (Sim City) and the usual mixture of so called experts, journalist & phsycologists and some rare glimpses of old C64 and Amiga games.
The thing that left me laughing & worrying about this documentary was the interviews with today's gamers the so called self titled "Generation X"... what a complete bunch of tossers, not a clue about what they are saying and contradicting their own so called ethos and beliefs by their very own words... :lol:
According to this program there have been 3 generations of computer/video gamers...
The first generation: (I'm supposed to be part of that one) were those who were around at the start of home gaming/computing and who embraced it as something new & exciting but was nothing more than a pastime... :)
The second generation: were those who were just born around that time and grew up in the belief that computers/ video gaming had always been there and was just a natural part of everyday life that this was the way folk should entertain themselves... :)
The third genaration: "Generation X" well in their own words they use computers and video games to express themselves as artisans (sound pretentious already) are totally against any form of establishment and the video games industry is their way to express themselves and fight back against the so called establishment... :lol:
Now the crazy thing these so called anti establishment "Generation X" numpties don't seem to have the brains to realise is they are in fact contributing to keep the establishment in business and a supplying them with a healthy profit. I watched with laughter as they claimed they were artisans and modders of games who expressed themselves by taking a product like Halo (to name but one) and modding it to be the way that they think it should be and thinking this was being a rebel and an anarchist, gawd give me strength... :lol:
In the very same clip you had the old geezers in the suits from the publishing & hardware companies pointing out to them that in fact their modding was in actual fact making a healthy contribution to game sales as the mods they created encouraged more people to actually go out and buy the consoles and games and didn't these rebels realise they were the ones buying the consoles and games in the first place thus turning a huge profit for the establishment and multi-national corporations they claim to be fighting against... :lol:
The most absurd statements came from the authors and so called "Generation X" diddies who wrote games like "9/11 Survivor" and claim that these games actually put the player in a place where they could experience what it really feels like to be in an actual real life, life or death situation... No you stupid twats it's a game on a computer screen and until you actually experience a life or death situation in real life no computer game is ever going to cause you to physically shit yourself or actually kill someone else in order to save your own life... :)
I really worry just what goes through the minds of these kids/adults and think to myself my gawd these are the folk who will be our Doctors, MPs, Lawyers, Policemen etc... ie:the current/future establishment... :(
So to all you so called "Generation X" whahoos out there, try and watch this documentary, take a step back and think for a moment and realise YOU ARE THE ESTABLISHMENT you claim to be fighting and rebelling against, better still switch of your consoles and step out into the real world and see how you cope with a real life or death situation should you come across it...
Take it from me in reality a real life or death situation is nothing any computer game experience can prepare you for... ;)
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Problem?
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Problem?
Matter of fact I do... Now where do I start... ;)
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For the last few years I studied at uni doing a gaming centric course (c/c++, actionscript, 3ds max, story boarding, video editting, etc.). While quite entertaining and useful for my own interests (Ive been making games for 25 years or so, and it's nice to be uptodate with the industry, even if there are trends I dont like), I must admit some of the people invloved, including a few of the younger lecturers can make it a chalenge sometimes. Now I do understand that age can limit experiences, so to a degree some ignorance is excusable, but a not small portion of these newer generations actually seem to believe that because theyre "current" theyre the experts on the matter. More frustrating however is some of our textbooks, which are themselves innaccurate are being used as a basis for these "experts" to dismiss something I was a part of, and in fact disregard somethings that I say, because it doesnt match..... this is very frustrating. I was there, I lived it, I *know* it, yet because some text book written by people stupid enough to say, for example, the cdtv was a c64 with a cdrom (yes, I kid you not, "official" uni textbooks on the history of videogames claim this) I get dismissed as the old guy who doesnt know what he's talking about. Slowly, but surely I think people are starting to realise that maybe what I have to say is worth listening to and that I do know what Im talking about, but each year starts the same and the process is getting tedious.
Slight sidebar, but I have no fear of death due not to a video game, but accepting it in a very realistic dream a few years ago. I've been in some pretty hairy situations before, but until this dream it used to scare me, now I just accept it as inevitable. There's a good chance these words in text dont fully explain how profoundly the dream effected my outlook on death, but Im glad I had it nonetheless.
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I really worry just what goes through the minds of these kids/adults and think to myself my gawd these are the folk who will be our Doctors, MPs, Lawyers, Policemen etc... ie:the current/future establishment... :(
No they won't. They're the current/future scoungers due an undeserved sense of entitlement.
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No they won't. They're the current/future scoungers due an undeserved sense of entitlement.
Undeserved sense of entitlement, thats a perfect description of genx. I am trying to teach my kids a good work ethic, the true value of "stuff" and what real respect, and relationships are like; but it is tough.
If it isn't as easy as pressing the "x" button they don't want to do it.
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No they won't. They're the current/future scoungers due an undeserved sense of entitlement.
Problem!
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No they won't. They're the current/future scoungers due an undeserved sense of entitlement.
Nope, they are exactly the same type of Trustafarian Tarquin's and Henrietta's that Jarvis Cocker so eloquently took the piss out of whilst they were stood in a stadium singing along to "Common People (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqgXzPfAxjo)" after paying £100 per ticket, blissfully unaware that they are the very scum being exposed in the lyrics.
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nope, they are exactly the same type of trustafarian tarquin's and henrietta's that jarvis cocker so eloquently took the piss out of whilst they were stood in a stadium singing along to "common people (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqgxzpfaxjo)" after paying £100 per ticket, blissfully unaware that they are the very scum being exposed in the lyrics.
qfmft!
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In English?
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In English?
Quoted for m****r f*****g truth.
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Quoted for m****r f*****g truth.
:)
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:)
Even I knew that acronym!
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I didn't... but I like it... :)
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I didn't... but I like it... :)
You'll probably like this one too. :)
[youtube]EKFTtYx2OHc[/youtube]
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@ nicholas
:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
That's one of the best music vids I've seen in a long long time, thank you for that... :)
(Sad thing is, it's true... :eek:)
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have to put up with a lot of self entitlement where I work. Kids who figure they can come to work 15 minutes late every day.
My favourite is people who text message me 15 minutes before their shift starts, telling me they have a doctors appointment, and wont be in all day.
Never knew that doctors appointments take 8 hours, and are only scheduled 20 minutes in advance.
Then they bitch when their paycheck sucks.
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have to put up with a lot of self entitlement where I work. Kids who figure they can come to work 15 minutes late every day.
My favourite is people who text message me 15 minutes before their shift starts, telling me they have a doctors appointment, and wont be in all day.
Never knew that doctors appointments take 8 hours, and are only scheduled 20 minutes in advance.
Then they bitch when their paycheck sucks.
Yeah, one would think that once your bus has been 20 minutes late every morning for the last week the morons would figure out that they should take an earlier bus, but nooooooo!
Btw, we told our guys that they weren't allowed to call in sick through email or text messages. That cut our sickness absence rate in half. It's much harder to lie when you need to lie directly to someone's face. :D
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Yeah, one would think that once your bus has been 20 minutes late every morning for the last week the morons would figure out that they should take an earlier bus, but nooooooo!
Btw, we told our guys that they weren't allowed to call in sick through email or text messages. That cut our sickness absence rate in half. It's much harder to lie when you need to lie directly to someone's face. :D
NICE I like that!!! file away for furture reference mind you i would actually have to hire someone that would last more then 2 weeks... Is it me or are they really getting dumber??? Got sick of correcting all the mistakes (had to do 2-3 times the amount of work), so for now i would rather fly solo (ok so i do about 25-35 hrs overtime), i am much saner now... not that, that is saying much.
P.s. Hands up people if you sick of the out and out lies that you get now days in people resume!!!! :D
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It doesn't have anything to do with intelligence; they're usually smart enough when it comes to finding new ways to get away from work. :lol:
The problem is that kids nowadays never get to take responsibility for their actions. The first time is usually when they get fired for the first time, and then they don't have a clue about what they did wrong. I blame the parents.
Look at me now, I sound like some grumpy old fart! :D
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Look at me now, I sound like some grumpy old fart! :D
Join the club, sir.
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The problem is that kids nowadays never get to take responsibility for their actions. The first time is usually when they get fired for the first time, and then they don't have a clue about what they did wrong. I blame the parents.
Not just the parents (http://winstonsmith33.blogspot.com/).
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A certain 'bedroom programmer', Elon Musk, wrote a computer game called Blastar in the 80s?
I bet if Generation-X check out what he's upto nowadays those 'rebels' won't feel so clever.
If creating a game mod is all they see as their life's achievement and their mark on this world then the future looks bleak.
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@ nicholas
:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
That's one of the best music vids I've seen in a long long time, thank you for that... :)
(Sad thing is, it's true... :eek:)
Yep great vid. :lol:
They need to make a new one featuring the Cleggyameron coalition.
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The sad & scary thing about watching that doc was most of these guys had been to uni and were supposedly well educated... :(
The odd thing I've generally found with uni educated folk are there are two types...
The ones who came from a working/middle class background who leave uni and still struggle to find a decent job and have to fight to create a decent career for themselves despite the fact they are very intelligent and have a lot of common sense about them... :)
The other type, who were born with a silver spoon in their mouth, go to uni cos Daddy was so rich and It just wouldn't do if his offspring didn't have a degree of some sort. They leave uni still none the wiser not one ounce of common sense between them but because of Daddies old boy network they walk straight in a career for life and get paid for being as thick as sh!te... :(
And Cameron is trying to sell us his "big society" crap I bet the bugger doesn't even know what society means without some civil servant explaining it to him... :)
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I have to disagree with a lot that has been written here.
I saw the documentary as well and thought it was OK until they got to generation x. I thought it was silly and i didn't think it represented modern gamers in any way. It was not an accurate depiction of modern games and gamers. But i also think the part about the mods was correct but i feel people on this thread have misinterpreted what it means. In my opinion mods are the beggining of a possible future of games where gamers are not relient on game companies and are instead able to make thier own games themselves. So this would be correct that they are fighting the establishment. An example of this would be freedoom. Also if you look at the recent rise in popularity of internet games such as java and flash as well as smartphone apps you will see that these games are so simple that anyone can make them. This is fighting the establishment in my opinion.
Another thing. Everyone is quick here to laugh off the modders rebelling against the establishment as being silly. It's funny because it kind of sounds like amigans turning to aros as a way to "fight the establishment" :confused:
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Another thing. For the record i agree that this generation is lazy. I think higher education is a priviledge and not a right. I think a lot of people go to university just so they don't have to get a job :madashell:
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The sad & scary thing about watching that doc was most of these guys had been to uni and were supposedly well educated... :(
The odd thing I've generally found with uni educated folk are there are two types...
The ones who came from a working/middle class background who leave uni and still struggle to find a decent job and have to fight to create a decent career for themselves despite the fact they are very intelligent and have a lot of common sense about them... :)
The other type, who were born with a silver spoon in their mouth, go to uni cos Daddy was so rich and It just wouldn't do if his offspring didn't have a degree of some sort. They leave uni still none the wiser not one ounce of common sense between them but because of Daddies old boy network they walk straight in a career for life and get paid for being as thick as sh!te... :(
And Cameron is trying to sell us his "big society" crap I bet the bugger doesn't even know what society means without some civil servant explaining it to him... :)
Many years ago the local Tory councillor wannabe was trying to drum up votes in the pub. She started waffling on about all the standard far right bullshit they come out with off-camera and made the mistake of mentioning the word "society" within my earshot.........
"But there is no such thing as society" I shouted across to her
"According to who EXACTLY?" said she.
"Margaret f**king Thatcher!" I replied.
She proceeded to leave the pub. :D
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Another thing. For the record i agree that this generation is lazy. I think higher education is a priviledge and not a right. I think a lot of people go to university just so they don't have to get a job :madashell:
You've obviously not got a Degree.
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The most absurd statements came from the authors and so called "Generation X" diddies who wrote games like "9/11 Survivor" and claim that these games actually put the player in a place where they could experience what it really feels like to be in an actual real life, life or death situation... No you stupid twats it's a game on a computer screen and until you actually experience a life or death situation in real life no computer game is ever going to cause you to physically shit yourself or actually kill someone else in order to save your own life... :)
Have you actually played some of these modern games? It's not an attack but i think for someone to criticise something they first have to know what they are talking about. You have many times in the past stated you have no interest in modern games and hardware but at the same time you are quick to dismiss them :)
I think some games like call of duty are quite realistic. I feel this game has taught me a lot and it has been a real opener in certain ways. Same for other games too. Also don't forget about VR which has been used succesfully to treat certain conditions. My point is games can approach a certain realism that can not be denied.
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You've obviously not got a Degree.
Actually i do. I have a degree in Accountancy and this coming November i will have a degree in Finance as well. That's 2 degrees.
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Have you actually played some of these modern games? It's not an attack but i think for someone to criticise something they first have to know what they are talking about. You have many times in the past stated you have no interest in modern games and hardware but at the same time you are quick to dismiss them. :)
I think some games like call of duty are quite realistic. I feel this game it has taught me a lot and it has been a real opener in certain ways. Same for other games too. Also don't forget about VR which has been used succesfully to treat certain conditions. My point is games can approach a certain realism that can not be denied.
Yes I have tried them and seen them, my nephew owns just about every modern gaming console there is along with all the games... :)
I am quick to dismiss them because to me they all look and play the same (and as I have said I have tried them), it's only my opinion but to me they are mind numbing trash... :)
As for realism that's the worst part of them if I want realism I just have to watch a modern movie with all the latest computer generated effects. All this so called realistic GFX in modern computer games to me takes away the feel that you actually playing a game... :(
I like my games to have a bit of depth and require me to use my brain for the most part and have GFX that make you realise your actually playing a computer game and not just participating in what's really nothing more than an interactive video... :)
Sorry if that doesn't fit in with you opinions of these things, but that's just my own honest view on this subject and you did ask... :)
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Have you actually played some of these modern games? It's not an attack but i think for someone to criticise something they first have to know what they are talking about. You have many times in the past stated you have no interest in modern games and hardware but at the same time you are quick to dismiss them :)
I think some games like call of duty are quite realistic. I feel this game has taught me a lot and it has been a real opener in certain ways. Same for other games too. Also don't forget about VR which has been used succesfully to treat certain conditions. My point is games can approach a certain realism that can not be denied.
Realistic hmmm maybe boring as hell ofcourse and before you say anything i actually have all those games on steam, inc black ops and bad company 2 etc etc although with a whole mess of others.. funny thing is i can't stand to play them more then an hour before i get bored and yes i am quite good at them.
Also to state that games like call of duty has taught you anything??
Have you ever held a real gun and pointed at something/someone living and pull the trigger?
I think these day young people take games to seriously... unless you are using educational software i don't see how you can learn from them.. and lol trying to put first person shooters in real world would be a great way to get your self dead. Trust me no matter how much the "dynamics" are "real" there not...... well not when it comes to snipering and ballistics.
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Actually i do. I have a degree in Accountancy and this coming November i will have a degree in Finance as well. That's 2 degrees.
I'll take your two degrees and raise you my Masters. ;)
How you can seriously believe that University is only for the privileged I'll never know.
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I have to disagree with a lot that has been written here.
I saw the documentary as well and thought it was OK until they got to generation x. I thought it was silly and i didn't think it represented modern gamers in any way. It was not an accurate depiction of modern games and gamers. But i also think the part about the mods was correct but i feel people on this thread have misinterpreted what it means. In my opinion mods are the beggining of a possible future of games where gamers are not relient on game companies and are instead able to make thier own games themselves. So this would be correct that they are fighting the establishment. An example of this would be freedoom. Also if you look at the recent rise in popularity of internet games such as java and flash as well as smartphone apps you will see that these games are so simple that anyone can make them. This is fighting the establishment in my opinion.
Another thing. Everyone is quick here to laugh off the modders rebelling against the establishment as being silly. It's funny because it kind of sounds like amigans turning to aros as a way to "fight the establishment" :confused:
You say you watched the doc but go on to say that these modders are going to be the ones who will create the future games without the big software companies being a part of it.
Kesa if you listened carefully to what was said in the doc you would realise the games being modded are produced by the companies these numpties claim to be fighting against and none of these so called modders actualy write the games in the first place. So therefore the thicko modders who can't write a game to begin with would have nothing to mod without some software company producing it in the first place... :)
And yes it is funny to listen to them claiming to be fighting the establishment when they are silly buggers buying the games & consoles from the establishment in the first place and not even having the sense to realise this...;)
(I assume from your anger here you are a modder... :))
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Many years ago the local Tory councillor wannabe was trying to drum up votes in the pub. She started waffling on about all the standard far right bullshit they come out with off-camera and made the mistake of mentioning the word "society" within my earshot.........
"But there is no such thing as society" I shouted across to her
"According to who EXACTLY?" said she.
"Margaret f**king Thatcher!" I replied.
She proceeded to leave the pub. :D
:lol: Well done my friend... :)
It's funny how most Tories seem to forget that infamous statement... ;)
(Still looking forward to the day the old bag dies, the celebrations should be a sight to behold... :))
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Modder or not the silliest claim comes from learning from games????? HUH????? again like i said what can you learn with a first person shooter or rpg or adventure game or any games except educational. Better to stick your head out of the window and see real life.....
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What have i learn't from call of duty? Hmmmmmm.....
The randomness of war. How many times did you die before finishing a harder level? Yesterday it took maybe 50 attempts to finish one level on veteran difficulty. I wonder how many attempts i would get in real life?
Friendly fire. One of my biggest criticisms of the game is that you can't tell an enemy from an ally. Half the time i shoot at my own men because i can't tell the difference between them! Especially in multiplayer. I think this would be quite a realistic scenario in real life. How many people got shot in real life from friendly fire in WWII? Probably a lot.
I am also aware it is only a game and i have never held a gun to someone in real life. But i definitely hold to the idea that you can learn from games.
Also the game is based on real life historic battles. Obviously they wouldn't be accurate in any way but they inspired me read up on them and do some reading. I did last night.
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Also the game is based on real life historic battles. Obviously they wouldn't be accurate in any way but they inspired me read up on them and do some reading. I did last night.
At last someone who's actually able to think for himself and be inspired to actually take it beyond the realms or computer gaming... :)
I'm not being sarcastic or anything like that here Kesa, but you've just given me some hope for the younger generation again...thank you... :)
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You say you watched the doc but go on to say that these modders are going to be the ones who will create the future games without the big software companies being a part of it.
Kesa if you listened carefully to what was said in the doc you would realise the games being modded are produced by the companies these numpties claim to be fighting against and none of these so called modders actualy write the games in the first place. So therefore the thicko modders who can't write a game to begin with would have nothing to mod without some software company producing it in the first place... :)
And yes it is funny to listen to them claiming to be fighting the establishment when they are silly buggers buying the games & consoles from the establishment in the first place and not even having the sense to realise this...;)
(I assume from your anger here you are a modder... :))
I'm not a modder but i do believe in anti consumerism :)
I think the point is that gamers are trying to take hold of their own gaming experience which can only be a good thing. I know that they don't actually make their own games but it's still a good push in the right direction.
Not exactly relevant but here it is. Maybe an example of modders successfully fighting the establishment would be Linux. Why pay hundreds of $ for windows 7 when you can use something just as good for free? I'm currently in the process of installing Ubuntu so i can run it with Windows 7 at the same time. The only reason i use windows 7 now and not switched over to Linux altogether is because i didn't pay for it. MS can blow me before i pay for overpriced crap. I'm not really sure if you can associate modders and Linux together?
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@ Kesa
Most folk (and I've seen it said on here numerous times) are of the belief that the days of one or a few folk sitting in their bedroom creating new games or hardware are a thing of the past and could never be repeated again as you need X amount of money behind you these days to be able to produce such things... :(
Me, I believe the exact opposite and no-one can give a valid reason as to why this could never be the case once again. I know I put down these modders guys for the reasons I've already given (right or wrong) but I do hope they succeed in becoming the next generation of bedroom coders. The only thing they need to get out of their head is the idea that they need to fight or try and bring down the big corporations (gawd... I'd love to see that).
If someone whether a group or individual can produce a piece of software or hardware that folk would be willing to buy then not even the big multi nationals could stop them, at the end of the day if you make a product that the consumer likes and is considered worth buying by them, then you'll have winner and no need to waste your time and effort fighting the establishment which unfortunately will always be there... :)
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I believe the future of gaming is interesting. It's definitely possible to make bedroom games as long as they are small enough. This would be perfect for smartphone apps etc.
On the other hand games in the 1980's took a few people a few weeks to make whereas today there may be hundreds of people working on a game that costs millions of dollars to make over several years at a time. It wouldn't be realistic to expect this to be done in bedrooms of amateur programmers.
In my opinion the future is big game companies joining forces with consumer gamers who also have programming skills (modders) to make a final product. Typically the casual gamer in the past had no knowledge of programming so their participation was limited to playing games only whereas today there are more and more consumer gamers who are also adept programmers so are in a position to participate more actively in a games development. This is going to only increase in the future. In the future games will be developed with modders and professional programmers working together as a team throughout the development of the game. This is the future of gaming.
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Android is what the next generation of bedroom coders are hacking on Frank.
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Not wanting to get into a pissing match, but I find more educational value in strategy games than FPS stuff.
The biggest FPS game that really stood out to me, in the realism department was the Brothers in Arms games, as they actually had suppression fire, squad interactions and so on.
That's okay. I like the fast paced twitch shooters since it gets your adrenaline going and heart beating :)
In the end though, its all about what you enjoy. If you got something out of it, then its all good. If playing Call of Duty got you to go read about Stalingrad or Arras, then that's a win for everybody.
I own almost all the WW2 fps titles that came out for the PS2, and enjoyed all of them, mind you. Just different expectations I think, since I do a lot of wargames (computer and miniatures)
None of us have to justify our entertainment to anyone else :)
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None of us have to justify our entertainment to anyone else :)
Only if it's illegal! ;)
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I actually researched the Reichstag on wikipedia because it's at the end of the game and i spent a lot of time trying to get through it. I think the programmers are amazing for the realism they put into it. The photos of the building in ruins is identical in the game!
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I actually researched the Reichstag on wikipedia because it's at the end of the game and i spent a lot of time trying to get through it. I think the programmers are amazing for the realism they put into it. The photos of the building in ruins is identical in the game!
That's a very nice touch :)